Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I just want beans on toast and a sleep (with Robert Hardman)

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Jane and Fi are a little worse for wear after a margarita filled evening, but you definitely won't notice... until Jane starts buffering.They're joined by the royal author Robert Hardman to discuss his new book "Charles the Third: The Inside Story".If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Eve Salusbury Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There to go to sleep. Right, so we have to bear with Jane today because...

Not for the first time. We went out for a little drink after the podcast and the show last night with Matthew Chorley and we had a lovely time and we said we'd just have one drink because it was very much a weeknight because he had to get back as well he's a longer train journey than we do

and then we were having a nice time so we had drink number two and then drink number two was so tasty and actually we were just getting to the good bits weren't we so we stayed for drink number three. And then drink number two was so tasty. And actually, we were just getting to the good bits, weren't we? So we stayed for drink number three. But the difference between us is that I just had a drink made from grapes with bubbles. And Jane, honestly, Jane, I couldn't believe it when you started out down this road. You said, I'll have a margarita.

Yeah, and I won't be going down that road again. Well, actually actually i wonder whether i you know it's been a lifelong haul and i think you've identified the fact that i am basically allergic to what sulfites sulfites um whereas today i don't feel anywhere near as bad as you should as i should or would have done if i'd had the equivalent number of bubbly drinks. Yeah. So you would have had to have 12 glasses. What? To have the equivalent of the units that you had in your margaritas. I don't think last night or my behaviour doesn't best scrutiny.

Okay. It's one of those classic evenings where you stand up and then you think, oh, gosh, okay. And then, wait, I'm some distance from my home here at work and i thought i'll get a cab and i definitely get cab it's quite expensive so then then i thought no i feel absolutely fine i'm not fine uh so i blundered onto an underground train and i did fall asleep. I missed the stop. I know I got a bus.

And then, of course, you walk in. The kids were watching Love Island All Stars and it's that you try and keep, you try and act like... You try and hold it together, yeah. I definitely, I lost the dressing room when I announced that I was just going to have a bowl of last night's curry heated up with nothing else. And so I just sat in front of the television watching traitors eating curry from a bowl with a spoon. And I think they realised something was up.

Okay, right. Well, we won't be doing that again until we do. And I'm looking forward to it already. I just want to make it very clear. Yeah. So Robert Hardman, royal author, is our guest with a substantial chunk of the podcast. Yes. So we need to get a wiggle on.

We'll get a wiggle on. And also, we've had loads and loads of lovely emails, but we will keep them for next week so you can hear more of Robert Hardman. So please don't think that you've sent an email in vain. I just wanted to read this one from Nick about hearing aids. Yes, I picked this one too, actually. Okay, well, look, should we do half and half? No, no, you read it because I think, to be honest, I'm not at my best. Okay, right. My name's Nick, I wear hearing aids and I

can tell you a lot about the process. I found out that I needed them when I was about 10 years old, just before secondary school. And after wearing my chunky blue NHS hearing aids for about three days I quickly realised that I would rather have friends and then avoided wearing them for the next 10 years. It turns out that this is quite normal. It takes an average of 10 years for people to go from the point when they find out they could benefit from hearing aids to actually getting some and the majority of people never do only about 20 percent of people who could benefit actually wear them when i was 20 at university i finally admitted defeat and got some hearing aids to help reduce the amount of times i made a fool of myself in social situations

while the technology is life-changing it definitely takes a month or so of continued wearing until your brain gets used to the new sounds that you had previously been missing. Essentially, your brain needs time to learn which sounds are important and which are not. I'm now 30 years old and I still don't like how hearing aids look. The fact they're designed to be hidden just implies that I should be ashamed to be seen wearing them. I think that's such a good point. Yeah, I'd never thought of that. be ashamed to be seen wearing them. I think that's such a good point. Yeah, I'd never thought of that. And Nick goes on to say, having been envious for years of friends who could wear cool medical products for vision impairment, i.e. designer glasses, I became obsessed with the mission of

making the hearing equivalent of designer glasses. So Nick has started building his own pair. And after vlogging the design journey on social media thousands of other people seem to feel the same way and have joined the wait list on my website which is overtone.so slash dot i hope i've got that right i think you can just go overtone.so on a search engine they're unapologetically visible and like glasses are designed to enhance how you hear and the way that you look. Now, Nick, we couldn't wish you more well. I know that's not really a sentence and I apologise for it, but you know what I mean. In doing that, because you're, of course, you're spot on.

You know, we should be able to see a hearing aid. I think it's valuable to know that somebody is wearing one as well. That's also true. It would help both the wearer and the people that they're with. Definitely. And of course they should look good. Yeah. Why not? Yeah.

So good luck with that. Keep us posted and thank you for writing in. Yeah, a lot of people have emailed about this and I'm grateful to everybody. And actually this is from a slightly older individual, Anne, who says, I'm a regular listener. I got mine in October last year. I'm 67 and I've got age-related hearing loss. My father, who had a hearing aid from the mid-60s, always said that

you needed to get hearing aids when you were young enough to learn how to use them. So I decided to say yes to them now instead of waiting until I was really struggling. Technology has moved on a lot since his first hearing aid, but they do take a bit of getting used to. I have an aid for each ear. I think that's the standard practice now. The first few days are an experience. Even as you take your first steps out of the appointment, you can hear the rustle of your clothes and there's the traffic noise as well. You think that you're talking too loudly and the click of the indicators in the car can sound like a gun going off.

The washing machine and the dishwasher seem to have got louder and I can hear the kettle boiling from the other end of the house. It is irritating, but gradually your brain gets used to all this new input. And after a week or so, it settles down. Well, I'm glad to hear that it has been useful for you. They have been useful for you. And actually she also, I think this is important, I'm not fond of the app for everything culture, but the aids are linked to an app, which means that I can change the volume or the setting for different locations without taking the aids out. That's good, isn't it? It also means that settings can be changed remotely if necessary.

Please note, if I am playing with my phone when you think I shouldn't be, the chances are I'm adjusting my hearing aids, not playing games or looking at YouTube. Thank you very much for that, Anne. I'm glad things are working out for you. Another dream has come in. This one's going to remain anonymous. All very bizarre bizarre says our correspondent fee and jane sat in a village hall waiting for the likes of bob mortimer to host something or other i came in like a whirlwind along with my sarge sat next to you both i said oh my god it's you guys and proceeded to take my stab vest and tack vest off cop uniform prior to this my serge had a cardiac arrest in the driver's seat of our

response cop car i don't know why i'm laughing he was all right in the end and we carried on our journey to the village hall you were both bamboozled from what i recall gosh we're associated with some pretty severe incidents you know that the life-size squirrel one made it to the newspaper what it made it into the London Metro. Did it? Yes, under a piece about the side effects of HRT, one of them being vivid dreams. But it was nice to see it in print.

It's brilliant to see it in print, and I'm glad that my theory that since I've been on HRT, my dreams have been better than anything on Netflix, has proved to be right. And actually, I did read the rest of the article. It was very informative. And of course it it's hormonal because I had incredibly vivid dreams when I was pregnant I mean like whoa oh no that's crazy time yes yes and that's hormones isn't it oh yes oh and I had different types of dreams carrying a boy

to carrying a girl now you've gone too far. Really? Yes. I won't tell you why. Crack on. I think I will. I'm being indulgent here. You'll be amazed to hear. Just mentioning that fabulous Kate Atkinson

book, A God in Ruins, and the ending of it, which I won't spoil for anybody. I do urge people to read it. It's one of my favourite Kate Atkinson's books now, because I've reassessed it on the strength of an email from Lucy, which I can't really read out because it will spoil it for other people. But it's about the way that novel ends. It's now I realise it. I've thought about it more and I've read Lucy's thoughtful email. I think it's a genius thing that she does at the end of that book. But you do need to read it. It's about one man's experience of the Second World War

and the life he goes on to have afterwards, his exceptionally difficult daughter, her challenges. It's just very, very clever, but also very moving. Can I apologise to everybody for mispronouncing the name of our book club author? Yes. Selene Thurston. I. Selene Thurston. I've been saying Thurston.

Dreadful. I know. An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good is the title of the book. We're going to say hello to Kate in Toronto and Canada again. She gets two days in a row of emails read out. And I'm sorry, Kate, that's it. That'll be it for another 10 years. No, of course it's not.

And Kate just says says it was such a thrill to hear my email read out on offer that i had to write back with my sincere thanks it was lovely to hear my mum and aunt viv's names read aloud and sometimes that really is isn't it it just brings people back to life it's great it's a very nice thing so i'm really really with you on that kate yeah but k Kate has also written in to try to convince us both not to give up on our cats and she's very thoughtfully uploaded uploaded Pete the cat's video to YouTube but you would have thought I was the drunk one last night I've uploaded Pete the cat's video to YouTube to attempt to alleviate your very valid concerns

about opening attachments it took me about two weeks to train Pete to do this and a bit more than that to train him to do the high fives. I'm not joking. Cats can be trained to do all sorts of things. My childhood cat, Chester, RIP, could sit, shake paws and jump through a hoop on command, though the latter, I'm sure, he felt beneath him. Don't give up, ladies.

Happy to provide consultation. And that's the other point, isn'm sure, he felt beneath him. Don't give up, ladies. Happy to provide consultation. And that's the other point, isn't it, Kate? Because I think although Brian just couldn't give a shit about what he looks like and what he does, I think Barbara would be troubled. Yes. And Barbara carries herself with immense disposition. I think she's an aristocratic cat.

Oh, she shits everywhere. I don't think she wants to do... Well, I think many aristocrats probably do the same everywhere. I don't think she wants to do... Well, I think many aristocrats probably do the same thing. I don't think she wants to do tricks. I'm not going to do a link immediately to Robert Hardman on that note. That would be quite wrong. That would be wrong. Because he's talking about the royals.

So that's totally different. But actually, this is important from Sarah. What is the name of that app to measure sound in restaurants? Soundprint. Soundprint. There you go, Sarah. I never heard of it. And I thought it was very good of Fiona to bring that to our attention.

Well, Greg from Soundprint, who's the bloke what set it up over in America, has heard the podcast and it being mentioned. So we're all in one great big happy group. Isn't it lovely when life comes together like that? Isn't it? Yeah, really nice. We've had some names, suggested names for our new media news feature,

which I think is on Wednesday, isn't it? Pat says, Mr Pat Kelly, puts the Mr in brackets, which I rather like. I like people who do that. I used to write notes to my sister's school saying she couldn't do hockey because she had a verruca or whatever it was. And I'd always sign it

Maureen Garvey, brackets, Mrs. Oh. Because I was pretending to be my mother. It's a naughty thing. I can confess it now. Yeah. Bad Jane. I think that's probably the one useful thing I did for my sister during our adolescence.

Anyway, Pat Kelly, brackets, Mr. says, how about the lovey's lowdown for our media news? Oh, gosh. Not sure about that, really. And Kate is enjoying Boy Swallows Universe on Netflix, but she didn't like the book. Oh, interesting. OK.

Oh, she didn't even read it. She said she was so put off by it. Oh. Yeah. So I did. I caught the trailer for that on the flicks. And I like the book so much, I can't watch the series. Oh, it works differently with you, doesn't it?

Yeah. Yes. OK, let's get on. I think we've left enough space now to move on to Robert Hardman. Shitting aristocrats. I wasn't going to reference that again. I was just going to let that lie. But you've gone there, so there we are.

Right, just everybody cleanse their palate. Here we go. Robert Hardman. His name has been very much in the news uh here certainly in the uk over the last couple of days uh he's an incredibly in the know daily mail journalist and something of an authority on the british royal family he's written a great deal about them about other subjects as well i should say over the years but his latest book is called uh charles The Inside Story. And obviously, just reminding people outside the UK that there's been a great deal of news about the royal family this week, because we've learned that the king is going to have a procedure on his prostate next week. And of course, the Princess of Wales is in hospital recovering from quite all we know is quite a serious abdominal operation so um lots

of talk about the roars this week and lots of sympathy extended to them too um this book is not authorized by sorry no i'm doing all right there and then last night's come back to bite me buffer literally buffered tonight uh this book by by Robert Hardman is not authorised, but it comes with a certain amount of authority because he's got some cracking sources, has Robert. And he believes in the book that the palace will wish that he hadn't included everything that's in there. But broadly speaking, I think it's fair to say

he is a supporter of the royal family, isn't he? Yeah, and I think he does a brilliant thing, actually, Jane, because he tells us things that we don't know about the royal family whilst not making us laugh at them or dislike them or disrespect them. But he's not a sycophant. No, so it's a very clever act. It's not an act, it's just a very clever skill. Yeah, so this is a lengthy interview and we hope that you enjoy it

and let us know what you think. I mean, you don't have to be a monarchist or anybody remotely interested in the royal family. We hope to enjoy this, but you might well have a view. So let us know, j think i mean you don't have to be a monarchist or anybody remotely interested in the royal family uh we hope to enjoy this but you might well have a view so let us know jane and fee at times dot radio so we did start by asking about the health of the king and that news from yesterday that he will undergo a procedure on his prostate next week i had no idea at all about um that he was um heading for, or indeed that the Princess of Wales was already in hospital. No. And the fact that the King has chosen,

presumably he's chosen, to be completely transparent about what his issue is, is that significant? It feels like a change. It does. It definitely feels like a gentle shift of tone, really. Clearly, anyone's private medical details remain private. I mean, yes, we have a right to know if a monarch is ill,

but we don't have a right to know everything. But I just thought the words enlarged prostate in a palace statement, I mean, that's quite something. It's partly, I think, a case of sort of moving with the times, but I think it's also partly a kind of case of leading by example. And we've sort of slightly seen that. You get occasionally sports personalities talking about they have particular, you know, whether it's testicular cancer or whatever,

or other celebrities talking about, bravely talking about things that must be extremely painful to talk about, but with a view to spreading the word. And I think there's an element of that here as well, with him getting it out there. Certainly that's what we're being told, is he didn't want to kind of hold back, because, you know, maybe other people might now get checked out.

If it can happen to a king, it can happen to you, and so on. Yeah. We know he's not his mother, but this is a very good example of how he isn't his mother yes i mean it's it's a change i say it's a change of gear um and i i noticed that while i was you know doing my book um that just things are they haven't changed dramatically i mean monarchy is not a it's not a brand of toothpaste it doesn't have a sort of image relaunch under under new ownership but it it actually it sort of stands for continuity but each each monarch each reign you know you do it

differently you do it in your own way and it's definitely it's one of those things i'm sure um you know when when when the next person writing a book about him comes along they will point to this moment and say that was that was interesting because there was, I think, a much greater degree of mind your own business when it came to royal medical bulletins in the past. I was looking back at one when I was, remember, in the middle of the Diamond Jubilee in 2012. There was a sort of slightly awful moment right in the middle of the commemorations between the river pageant and the

service at St Paul's, I think it was, that the Duke of Edinburgh was suddenly taken into hospital. And we were told at the time it's a minor infection, but we didn't get anything like this sort of level of detail. Can we just talk about the Princess of Wales, whose illness we don't know? And I mean, I'm absolutely not going to use this as an opportunity to ask you if you, well, we've answered the question. But no 42-year-old woman who's previously been extremely healthy stays in hospital for quite a chunk of time, up to two weeks, we're told, unless it's pretty serious.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not in any way a medical expert. I mean, it's clearly... It is serious because, you know, as you say, it's a long stint. But, you know, we've had various reassurances from the various sort of bulletins that it's, you know, it's not this, it's not that. I mean, I think it's just a case of let's make sure

she's absolutely fine and fighting fit when she comes out. She's very popular. And do you think that if somebody did find out why she went into hospital and what the surgery is and chose to make that public there would be a huge backlash against that would anybody really be able to publish that if they did know well i suppose we we we live in an age of ever more intrusive or just inventive social media, and I suspect something like that wouldn't necessarily stay secret for long,

but I can't imagine any responsible outlet publishing it, publicising it. I mean, there are very strict rules guarding medical details. And let's not forget, I mean, there was that incident some years ago when she was in hospital with very severe morning sickness. I think it was. It was, yeah. I don't remember the medical details, but I certainly remember the incident when you had two Australian radio presenters ringing up the hospital, pretending to be royal and getting through,

and this poor nurse, you know, late at night, answered the phone, put them through. I can't remember the exact details, but it was great. It was a breach of trust in a hospital situation, and the nurse was so mortified that she killed herself. I mean, that was absolutely devastating for everybody. I think the radio presenters, I might name them, I can't remember their names. I know one of them lost their job. I think a career was over. I mean, the whole thing,

everything about it was just so ghastly that I think it was a reminder that, you know, royal health is just no moment for taking liberties, let alone levity. Kate's absence, I mean, Fia's absolutely right, Kate is popular. She is the family's stardust, isn't she, actually, at the moment? And the fact that she won't be on the public stage for, well, a couple of months, perhaps longer, it does expose the slightly threadbare nature of the working royal unit at the moment.

Well, yeah, we heard a lot, and we have heard a lot in recent years, about the slimmed-down monarchy. Everyone kept talking about how, will Charles slim down the monarchy? Well, I mean, it was slimming itself quite readily up to, well, first, obviously, the death of the Duke of Edinburgh and the Queen. And, yeah, it's a pretty reduced working unit at the best of times.

But over the years, it just adapts, it evolves. I mean, you know, they just get on with it. You can't rustle up extra royals when you need them. You have to make do. And it will be, it will certainly be a loss because, you know, the Waleses had a spring programme, quite a busy spring programme of events. I think, you know, as an institution, it'll cope perfectly well until there's one of the sort of those big items, those big moments that happen in the calendar. If we were looking at a big, say, that big week in June where you have the birthday parade,

everybody on parade for Trooping the Colour, followed by the Knights of the Garter all gathering at Windsor, followed by Royal Ascot, followed by garden parties galore, Holyrood House, all that sort of stuff where people really expect to get their kind of royal fix in the summer. I mean, then it would be felt, felt i think a lot more sorely whereas january um yeah it's it's it's it's it's an issue but i mean yes you're right i mean to be to have your your absolute um you know your number one star um out of action for a quarter of the year is definitely a challenge.

Well, wouldn't this be the time over there in the USA for Harry to pick up the phone? I mean, is there any hope that that could happen? I think the idea of a sort of an emergency-enforced de-Mexit strategy, I can't see it. I really can't. But blood's thicker than water, Robert Shaw. Blood is thicker than water. It really is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is, but, you know, if you... Harry and Meghan have taken a very clear decision to sort of step back from royal life and to go back into royal life to sort of, as it were, hold the fort. It just, you know, it wouldn't happen. It would... Why would they do it?

Why would the palace want it? I think it's a case that they just have to get on with the cards they've been dealt. What do you know about the current state of their relationship? Well, the king always, you know know his view is open door let's keep the door open and let's see what happens there isn't a sort of great stand off but

I think the relationship is probably a harder one to fix it's between the brothers I think you had the two things that really driven this sort of schism, one was the Oprah Winfrey interview,

which was absolutely extraordinary, probably the most, I would say, seismic, but a royal broadcasting since Diana's Panorama interview in 1995. And there was that. And then there was the publication of his book Spare. There was that sort of six-part Netflix documentary, but that was, to put it was a publication of his book spare there was there was that sort of six part netflix documentary but that was um to put it in a californian way so curated um that it

good accent there robert yeah i tried sorry don't get me doing australian um but um but you know it was uh spare was that it was less damaging to the institution, but it was really that capacity to just chuck precious, intimate childhood conversations, often perfectly nice ones. I mean, actually, you read Spare, everybody comes out of it pretty much OK. You know, even you go into it thinking, you know,

Camilla Parker Bowles, later Duchess of Cornwall is going to be depicted as sort of Cruella de Vil and actually even she you know is treated sympathetically and Charles comes out of it as a sort of endearing slightly eccentric dad and there's clearly a deep rooted bond

love with William but for all that just in putting so much of that out there, putting these sort of childhood stories and feuds and all the rest of it so publicly was just so wounding for someone as rigorously private

as Prince of Wales, Prince William, who really does guard his privacy. I mean, they all do, but really does guard his privacy. I mean, they all do, but I think he in particular. I think to have all that suddenly thrown out in the open, this is such an extraordinary act of unthinking, if you're going to be charitable, of just stupidity, or else just malevolence, that I think that will take a long time to recover. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. So do you have to run past Charles and anybody else that you know in the royal family, the details that you've revealed in your book? No, no, I haven't, no. I mean, it's not an authorised biography. I mean, some people you interview ask, can we check our quotes at the end? I mean, that's sort of standard practice. Not actually with royals come to think of it,

but it can be with some people, and that goes with any sort of book. But no, there's been no author right, no censorship, no editorial control. I'm a free agent and I'm sure there are bits in the book that they'd much rather weren't there. Well, it's all thriller, no filler, that's for sure. You do hint, and it feels like the wrong time

to be unpleasant about the Prince of Wales because he's clearly got a lot on his plate at the moment, but you hint that he's a somewhat less substantial figure than his father, that he doesn't read, for example, that he's not religious. Well, most of us aren't religious. But that presents a challenge if you are going to be the head of a church, possibly, when you assume. Yes, which I'm sure he will be, by the way. I mean, in the book, it's very clear that he's not interested in religion, particularly.

As I say, I mean, someone very close to him said he's not instinctively comfortable in a faith environment. not instinctively comfortable in a faith environment. He goes to church, like most people, you know, high days, holidays, Easter and Christmas, weddings. He will actually have to start going to church a bit more than he likes because as Prince of Wales, as a kind of heir, you tend to become the sort of chief national mourner. Monarchs don't, on the whole, go to other people's state funerals. So whenever there's going to be,

and there's just a constant churn, but as is the nature of life, there's always an important funeral, state funeral, president, retired president, whatever, going on somewhere in the world. Britain needs to be properly represented, so you send the Prince of Wales. So he's got a lot of that coming up.

But going back to your point, he's a different character. He's a regular guy, I think, as someone said, whom I interviewed. And I think that's the difference. I mean, it's not that he doesn't read. He doesn't have that sort of appetite or that kind of questing intellectual instinct

that I think the king does. You know, I don't think you'll have him lying awake at night wondering about the meaning of life or wanting to go on sort of pilgrimages or solaces or retreats to Greek monasteries. It's just not his thing, you know. And as I think, again, as I say in the book, you know, I compare him, or it's compared to me,

he's rather like George VI, you know, who was another sort of, you know, I compare him, or it's compared to me, he's rather like George VI, you know, who was another sort of, you know, dependable, regular guy. But, you know, boy, when you're in a crisis, when it comes to duty, absolutely, it's exactly what you need. He's just different. You do say, I think I've made a note of it, that Charles at one point was employing ten gardeners at Highgrove, his home in Gloucestershire.

Why? Because he loves gardening i think it was a point being made by someone who i was saying well you know isn't he quite extravagant um uh because we always have that image of of the queen with her sort of tupperware boxes and going around the house turning out the lights and someone made the point that actually the cost of all the racehorses and all the racing stuff was considerably more than ten gardeners but yes, the garden, Highgrove is a great labour of love I mean it's a sort of

it's got a farm attached, a home farm it's got I mean I walk round it with him actually and it's it's very much bits of it are very sort of tidy and ornate, bits of it are the sort of wildflower meadows. I mean, it's quite something, but yeah, it takes quite a lot of work.

Yeah, I mean, we know that they're a royal family, so they live in a very different way from the rest of us, but you've got Highgrove. He's also got the use of five houses in Scotland, and Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, Sandringham, Clarence House and Highgrove. Camilla has her own home. He's got a farm in Transylvania and a farm in Wales.

In Wales, yeah. Is that all right? They're very conscious. I know that within the palace people were expecting this to become a much bigger deal than it's become. I mean, particularly at a time of sort of cost of living crisis, the idea you've got a head of state who's got, I think, 11. I was sort of trying to tot it up.

It slightly depends whether you count the Transylvanian operation as two farmhouses or one. And in Wales, it's sort of the rental is in two. I mean, if you really wanted to boil it down, you could say he's got 14 houses. But, I mean, the rental is in two. I mean, if you really wanted to boil it down, you could say he's got 14 houses. But, I mean, the point is actually most of them, they're not residences. I mean, the property in Wales is there

to sort of promote Welsh craft and Welshness, and it's there, it's up there for rent. It's a sort of, but he stays in it every now and then to give it that sort of royal imprimatur to show that he's interested in it. And the house in Transylvania, I mean, anybody can rent that. I mean, he probably spends one, two nights a year. The rest of the time it's for sale.

Actually, some in-laws of mine once rented it for a weekend. They didn't even know it was his. They were renting. They needed someone nearby and they ended up there. a weekend they didn't even know it was his they were renting they needed somewhere nearby and they ended up there um but but nonetheless yes it's it's uh he's got more homes than his late mother because he's inherited all hers and he's still got his so you know highgrove clarence house on top of and the castle of maine dumfries house in scotland on top of all the other ones that's that's a lot of residences so that's resonances. So that's got to change.

And I think what we're going to see in the year ahead, there's an awful lot of tidying up to do on all these things. I mean, not just what do you do with a lot of these properties. You've got the whole issue of all the patronages, hundreds of them. I mean, they all went back into the mix after the death of the Queen and they've all got to be sort of reallocated um and and the events of the last few days that sort of remind of what do you do if you know you're i mean the princess of wales for example you know she's the colonel of the um irish guards now that that's you know what's going to happen on st patrick's day

when the colonel of the irish guards normally goes and presents shamrocks i mean all these things have to be thought through and then on top of that Patrick's Day when the Colonel of the Irish Guards normally goes and presents shamrocks? I mean, all these things had to be thought through. And then on top of that, you've got the whole issue of the royal warrants, which matter enormously to hundreds of businesses all over the country. For them, having that badge of honour, they last for two years after the death of what they call a grantor. So all the Queen's royal warants, they all expire in September. The Duke of Edinburgh's were already gone.

What happens to all, you know, how do we keep that sort of essential bit of, if you like, promoting British excellence? All that's got to be sorted out. And wither the residences is part of that. And certainly what I go into in the book, and it's obviously the slightly less sensational part of the book talking about uh slinky heat pumps and double glazing at the palace but i mean it's it's it's all part of what's going on um you know the the backing palace is in the middle of a 10-year refurbishment um and once that's over i mean

obviously you couldn't begin to start um opening it up in any significant way now but once that's over, I mean, obviously, you couldn't begin to start opening it up in any significant way now, but once that's over, we are going to see more public use of that. I think we will see Balmoral, for example, being opened up more and more. And, you know, a lot of those other places, like the Castle of May, he stays there a few days a year. But it's a charitable trust and actually he's someone put it to me that he's a great believer in the living tradition people are much more interested in looking around houses that are lived in from time to time uh and i

went did go up to dumfries house a couple years ago to to um interview him And I sort of spent a weekend there. There's a sort of guest house there. And that estate was completely under lock and key before he bought it. Nobody was allowed in. There was a sort of gamekeeper who would wander around with a gun saying, get off my land. And the dowager, Martianess of Bute,

used to sit in the house on her own with her dogs. Dogs on the amazing Chippendale furniture. And she just sat in an old armchair, and she liked watching the racing, and that's how it was for years, and nobody went there, and suddenly he ended up buying it, opening it up,

and all the people go there. So we'd never seen it before. We'd never been in, and now it's like public thoroughfare. People go in, there's playgrounds. You can go in whenever you like. It's free. So there's all that kind of stuff.

But, you know, on paper, it's another residence. Yes. I mean, you've put up a spirited defence of a number of properties. But also, I can see it's also a big, you know, PR challenge. You know, what are you going to do about all these properties? How do you, on the one hand, give them life by using them from time to time? But on the other, weather the accusations that you're living in a complete ivory tower

because you've got all these houses and people always say, well, there's a homeless crisis. Why aren't we putting more people in? You could think how many people you could accommodate in all these places. So it's a juggling act. And I think the answer will be that quite a few will effectively become rather like Hampton Court palaces now or the Tower of London.

I mean, they're technically royal premises. They come under the orbit of something called historic royal palaces. Or you've got something like Kensington Palace where sort of half it's public, it's like a museum, but half of it is actually lived in by royalty. And I think that there will have to be a sort of clarity there, particularly you've got a slimmed-down monarchy and yet ostensibly this vast property portfolio, those two can't go together. But they don't need to be told that.

I mean, that's in hand. I'm just surprised it hasn't become a bigger thing already. Yeah. Well, I suppose you made it quite a big thing for me, actually, when I was reading the book. Just very, very quickly, do you fear for the future of the institution, bearing in mind that monarchies tend to do better,

sweeping generalisation alert, under female monarchs? Yeah. And, you know, we've had the late queen, for all of us, I think, is the queen. Yeah. She's even got her own dictionary entry in German actually for years in the German dictionary Duden, it was Kernighan is the word for queen

but the new edition it says D-queen and then it says there is no plural there's just one, the queen but we won't have one we won't have one. We won't have one for a very long time. I know. And isn't that a bit of an issue?

I wouldn't say it's an issue. I mean, I think it's a source of, I mean, no disrespect to William and George, you know, they are, it goes with the territory of a hereditary monarchy. You know, it goes back to, you know, the cards you're dealt. But, yeah, I mean, Queens, through the 40 monarchs we've had since the Norman conquest, I mean, Queens have been so much more impressive than the kings. And they're a tiny number.

I mean, whatever it is, six. Someone will probably ring in and correct me, and you can have a debate about Lady Jane Grey later, but I mean, it's a small fraction. Many, many more kings, but you ask anybody, name your best top five monarchs in history,

and they are absolutely going to put in the mix Elizabeth I, Victoria, and Elizabeth II, and then we can argue about the other two kings. Let's not mention Bloody Mary. Well, you know, some might put her in. But, I mean, the point is, yeah, queens are of a... I mean, the track record is super impressive.

And that was one of the arguments when there was this recurring debate, as there was really through... since about the 80s onwards, you'd see quite a lot of private members' bills and growing pressure to change the laws of succession, saying, you know, this is ridiculous. Queens do better than kings.

Why do we give men a head start? And that was one of the reasons for changing the rules, which happened on the late Queen's Watch, finally with the succession to the Crown Act. But, yeah, we are not going to see a Queen regnant in our lifetimes, that's for sure. Jane intends to live forever, so it could happen in hers. I don't want to be Queen myself.

I think secretly you do. Can I just ask you, when you spend time with King Charles, is he companionable? Do you feel that you're in the presence of your monarch what's he actually like as a chap he's uh yes he's he's he's a very kind of um genial host i mean when i'm there i'm not there as a sort of as a charm i mean i'm not there as an authorized biographer i mean he did do an authorised biography, a very good one. Jonathan Dimbleby did it with him in a film back in the 90s. And so it was a completely different order of actors. I'm not an authorised book.

I was writing a documentary that's obviously sort of following him around, but, you know, very much sort of, you know, tradesman's entrance, not sitting down at the dinner table. But he's always, and Quinn Kimmler as well, they're always very, you know, they're very friendly. They're not over-friendly. You're there to do a job. You're, you know, observing.

But yes, in sort of, you know, private moments maybe, you sort of have a chat about things. Nothing radical or substantial. But I mean, I just remember on the odd, I was on a state visit with them to Germany back in the spring. And, you know, at the end of that, they sort of came back down the plane to have a chat with us all and, you know, talk about how it went.

He came back down the plane to have a chat with us all and talk about how it went. And, yeah, he has extremely, I think he has extremely good manners. I sort of noticed that around people, even after people have sort of seen him, even people who are not, people who are quite notably anti-monarchist, they sort of come away. He's very charming.

He's, yeah, we all know he does have a a temper we saw that with his with his pen um and and you know there are enough sort of anecdotes about that sort of thing over the years but um he's he's he's very happy now that's the thing i noticed i mean i i've sort of on and off been writing about royalty for, I don't know, since the 90s. And so I've seen him in action quite a bit over the years, in the sort of darker years, through the sort of noughties and up to the present.

And I would say he's more contented now than certainly that I've seen him before. And I think that just... People often said that about the Queen as well, that when she got to later stages of life, you look back in the 60s, 70s, even in the 80s, people always comment on how glum she looked. She didn't smile very much.

And then she got to the sort of noughties, and it was around about the time that she'd actually lost her mother and her sister, and so, you know, a period of great sadness. But I think also there was a sort of release. And as someone put it to me, a serenity. When she, you know, finally hit what everybody could agree was old age. It was like, well, I've done what I can do. I can't really do any more.

I'm just going to carry on. I'm going to enjoy it. And she was a very smiley queen in her later years. And I've noticed with him, he's a happy monarch. Robert Hardman, the book is out now. It is King Charles III. That's all

you need to know. You're a bit obsessed with the property side of the royal family. I am. Well, I'm a bit like Robert Hardman. I don't know why more people don't get exercised by it um i think i understand completely i i by the way i don't think we should have a republic in britain i'm rather like the idea which isn't to say that the current royal family and certain members of it don't have a certain amount of well more than baggage in the

case of andrew um but and i totally understand that if you're going to have a royal family, they have to live differently from the rest of us. Otherwise, what is the point? I don't want to bump into them at Lidl when I'm buying my bread first thing in the morning. You don't think they should all be cycling around? No, I don't. Like the Danes? Not the Scandinavian model.

We might as well pick on the Danes. But it is an extraordinary property portfolio. And as Robert says, you've got to be a bit careful because some of the properties they own, some they just have the use of. It's all a little bit complicated. But nevertheless, it's a world that few of us could ever dream of. Well, it is.

But I'd like to know more about the usage of all of those properties when the Royal Family aren't in residence anywhere because i mean like the farmhouse in wales for example is dedicated to keeping up the great traditions of welsh crafts and i i absolutely get it but you know you've got you've got to have a huge amount of money which they have which again is something else that I'm not sure many people ask all that many questions about. So William said something quite intriguing, didn't he, about how he wanted to actually put his money where his mouth is about homelessness and do something in a bricks and mortar sense.

So, you know, maybe there is a big change coming where we will see some of those residences used, you know, for really, really proper working help for people. Because, you know, there is a difference, isn't there? Keeping crafts alive and all of that kind of stuff is a fantastic cause, been crafts alive and all of that kind of stuff is a fantastic cause but it's not at the kind of emergency end of help actually so it would be good to see that happen but i i've got a funny thing and i'm sure you know you have this too that in as much as i would like all of that property portfolio to be far more democratic i also don't want to see lots of beautiful old buildings and castles and stuff just bought by very rich people, which is what would happen if they went onto the market.

And Robert's right. Nobody would ever go into them again. So his story of the Martianess Dowager Duchess of... I'm so sorry, I've forgotten. I think that's her official title. You know, being the only person... Sitting in Dumfries House. In Dumfries House, you know, with all of sitting in dumfries in dumfries house you know

with all of the the dogs on the chippendale uh furniture you know that will happen again so castles would be bought by enormously rich private individuals and the gates would close and nobody would ever get into them again i mean most people haven't even heard of dom free's house but at the moment what do you have if you live in Scotland, actually. Okay, right. Well, they probably don't necessarily associate it with the royals. So it's just that the king is currently at Bourke Hall, which is a house of his that's on the Balmoral estate, but isn't Balmoral Castle. And then he's also got his big home in Gloucestershire. Well, I listed them in the interview. I just think is why don't

more people, I mean, we've got the Republic movement. It's not a particularly big movement. And actually, Robert writes about Republic and actually says that they're a perfectly decent body of people who just very sincerely believe that we ought to have a conversation about the future of the monarchy. And, you know, there was that farcical nonsense on Coronation Day where the leader of Republic Graham Smith was arrested and apparently according to Robert's book that the palace were absolutely horrified because they know the man bears them no personal ill will at all he just believes in that cause and he's absolutely allowed to isn't he hmm it's a free country yeah do you think it's why you've not been

ennobled though I think in the dark hours. Does that trouble you? Occasionally I do think about that. Yeah. Okay. What did you think about last night? Oh, don't talk to me about last night. No, Jane had a rough night, kids.

Not entirely caused by drink, in fairness to me. No, no. But it is funny, isn't it, that I was in such good spirits on my way home. A little bit of a tummy episode at the house. Not related to me, I should say, but golly, what a night. Oh, what a night. And we've all had them, haven't we?

Up in the night. And I've had, I should say, do you know what I was thinking in the dark hours, around about half four this morning? People who are proper carers. I mean, people who properly care for people through the night, whether it's a sibling or it could be a child.

We know people have children who have terrible illnesses and caring for partners through the wee small hours. They do it every night, every night. How do people do that? I do not know. No, and all credit to you if that's you. Yeah, quite. So Jane is, this Jane is not here on Monday.

It's me and Jane Mulkerrans in our very strange kind of working threesome relationship. You're attending a family function and expect to be extremely hungover on Monday. No, no, I won't be at all, actually. It'll be very respectable, but I just want to be able to enjoy it. Yeah, fair enough. I've ordered the turkey. It's going to be very respectable, but I just wanted to be able to enjoy it. Fair enough.

I've ordered the turkey. And on Monday, we'll be talking to Tom Dean, who is the fantastic swimming champion who's hoping to get five gold medals at the Paris 2024 Games. Oh, wow. For Britain? For Britain, yes. He's not renting himself out to Germany on a Thursday, France on a Friday. Bring them all home.

No. So we will talk to him and have a lovely weekend. Jane and Fiat, Times.Radio, if you'd like to email us. Thank you. Thank you very much. At ease. Bye. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air

with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm and you can listen for free

on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere

on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So, in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane? Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. I'm to open breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.