Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I like mine when it goes boi-oi-oi-oing!

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Happy Ken Follett week to all those who celebrate! Jane and Fi cover Swiss humour, Kamala's narrator skills, lady moon landings, and the male form. We've announced our next book club pick! 'Just Kids' is by Patti Smith. You can listen to the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=uOzz4UYZRc2nFOP8FV_1jg&pi=BGoacntaS_uki.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think the female form is nicer to look at than the male form. I mean, it's, you know, it's one of the things I feel sorriest for men about. I think it looks uncomfortable. It's just difficult. It's got a lot going on. I'm Adam Vaughn, Environment Editor at the Times. And in Planet Hope, we meet the people tackling our biggest environmental and scientific challenges. from saving penguins in Patagonia to helping people of paralysis to move again.

These are stories of science, courage and hope. Follow Planet Hope wherever you get your podcasts. Planet Hope is brought to you by the Times in paid partnership with Rolex and its perpetual Planet Initiative. So I think you managed to escape my sadness this morning because you were very busy doing a trail to Hugo Rifkin at the Labour Party conference. Somebody nicked my bike last night, Jane. And I properly, it was properly, properly sad about it.

I'm really sad. Oh, I'm sorry. Where was it taken from? Well, it was outside the Hackney Picture House. And it was definitely, you know, double-locked once through the wheel, once through the frame, all the way around the proper bike stand. and somebody must have come along with an axle grind or a massive pair of...

God, are they really meant business? Well, they do, don't they? They do. And the thing is, and I fully understand it because I've seen some people axle grinding del locks off bikes and I've not stopped to challenge them because I think they've got an axle grinder.

That's not... You've got nothing in your locker that's going to mean that you're safe if you do that. So I understand why people don't intervene and stuff but I'd just like to say it just is deeply... upsetting. It's really annoyed me. And now I've become obsessed, so I'm going to be searching

Gumtree and eBay for it because I was very, very fond of it. It wasn't mine, actually. It was my daughter's, and it's even worse. So, I'm very ignorant here. What are your chances, realistically, of getting it back? Well, loads of people do get them back. I didn't have any kind of tracking device on it, but lots of people do have tracking device on their bikes. This isn't a bike that's worth a lot of money at all. And it came from Gumtree in the first place, but lots of people do track their bikes and there's been quite a hoo-ha because often you'll phone the police and say I know where my stolen item is and they say don't go because it's dangerous for you but we don't have enough time to go either so you just got to walk away from it and understandably that's very

frustrating and I could search for it because it's got it's got quite a distinctive small wheel size. Has it? Yeah, it has. I don't even know if, do I laugh at that? Does that mean does some bikes have very big wheels? Well, it just means that, I don't know,

it just might be a little easier to spot because it's smaller than a normal adult's bike. And of course it's, you know, it's just distinctive. It's got some distinctive features on it. And I don't think those bikes go very far. No. Because it's people who just want to make a bit of money, isn't it?

Well, it's really annoying. I'm going to try and track it down. So anyway, sympathies for anybody else who's been the victim of petty crime this weekend. Yeah, it's horrible. It is actually horrible, because you feel powerless and frustrated. Oh, I just had some really weird dreams as well. I think I had powerless and frustrated dreams.

Oh, yeah. Yes, we don't want to hear any more detail. Well, unless you would share. No, no, my dreams have been worse than ever, by the way. I'm actually semi-thinking. Maybe someone listening could help. Are they connected to H. Is there, I know that my dreams on HRT have always been quite vivid.

They're getting more vivid, more astonishing. And at times, if I'm on, it's quite frightening. Yeah, no, same here. So realistic. Yes. So realistic. Yeah. And that's just a bit disturbing. And I'm not at all surprised that that incident, which you sort of semi could dismiss as minor,

might be tempted to, but I wouldn't, can actually come to the surface when you're asleep. So your subconscious is really dwelling on it and is upset by it and wants to try to process. what's happened because I think we hate powerlessness, don't we? We feel immensely vulnerable in those moments and it's just horrible. Anyway, thoughts and prayers. Yeah, I think we should get a dream interpreter on it because I know that Steve Wright was worried about, you know, whether or not that makes you look a little bit daft. Do you remember his life? And he just, he always just sounded like he didn't really believe it, but he really wanted to know. No, no, he did. And I think that's probably a similar position to ourselves.

Yeah, and we might just drop the... We're going to sound like we're not interested because we genuinely are. But yeah, I think it would be great. I think it would be great. I think it's genuinely horrible to be the victim of any crime. And I think it's years now since I've even had a purse-necked. Oh, don't say that.

No, no, I know. But now, of course, nobody takes a purse out, do they? So... Oh, I think you're tempting fake by saying that. Okay. Well, I've got a tenor in my bag. If anyone wants it on the way back, I'll be...

I'll be travelling on the way. following trains. Nobody wants one of your incontinence pads for your sake. Right. Last week, we had an email from Denise, who had had a moment where she just thought, no, I've had enough of work at the age of 66. I want to do something else. And this is from Christine, who's in Auckland. After listening to your 26th of September podcast about listeners who might have had a Denise moment, I had to smile because I have had one. I had one earlier this year. I work in admin for a leading university and a brand new HR system was launched. A program so innovative, it managed to confuse not only me, but most of my colleagues as well. As I stared helplessly

at the screen, it struck me that the old system had been blissfully simple, whereas this new one seemed to require a degree in computer science. I realised I don't need this stress. It was time for someone else to take the reins. So after 40 years in the workforce, I've decided the time has come to put down the tools or more accurately log off for good. I'll be 68 when I retire early next year and my plans for the future are unstructured, refreshingly so. A bit of travel, a lot less logging in and an open mind about whatever comes next. Roll on February says Christine in Auckland. Christine, hope everything goes well for you. It'll be spring, won't it in Auckland in February? So you'll have a gorgeous couple of months to look forward to and many more after that, I'm sure.

But that was just a moment where a computer confounded her and she actually just thought, you know what, I need this like a hole in the head. I think we should forever refer to these kind of damascene moments of conversion to the life of retirement as a Denise moment. Doing a Denise. In honour of Denise. Can I apologise because the quote about Waffer thin ham for vegetarians was from the royal family. It wasn't from Gavin and Stacey Antonia says I doubt I'm the only person to email in

but Carolina Hearn's talent should not be forgotten and you are right on both fronts there, Antonia, so I apologise for that. And have you seen that there's a new woman's podcast coming out? Well, I'm trying to remember whether I already knew about it, whether someone had it would tell about it that they had. Who do you think it's trying to take on? Well, it's taking on us, isn't it?

They've got proper experts. Oh, but that won't catch on. Everyone knows experts are a thing of the past. It's the woman's our guide to life. I read a piece about it. And, I mean, it sounds great. They're doing kind of all the topics that we cover, but they are getting... I doubt that they are.

Have they done scabs? Are they doing scabs? Have they done other things you can do with your loop sanitary tales, which has provided a rich scene. It's still coming. Very creative entertainment. We've got a couple coming up, actually. But yes, they are doing it with experts,

and it was described by the presenter, Nula McGovern, who I don't know. I met her a couple of her. She's a lovely woman, yeah. She said that they wouldn't be banging on too much. They'd stop at 40 minutes. I felt wounded, Nula. Very, very wounded. Maria has noticed this, but she's going to stick with us too.

I think she might be trying it just to see whether or not it takes the bill. And you can do both listeners. Oh, you can try it. We wouldn't, we wouldn't mind at all. But also, there's a lovely recommendation that I'd like it in Zoo. because of the forest, the lakes are swimming and the easy escape to the mountains, made for the middle-aged woman.

Zurich? Zurich? Oh, never been. No, neither have I. But it should be marketed at us, shouldn't it? Not something I thought 30 years ago when I first moved here, but it's definitely grown on me. Humour, well, I would say a little bit more difficult to locate.

So we are still looking for the Swiss sense of humour. Where is it gone? You're not the only person to have said that they can't find it in Switzerland too. So we need a really, really good. Swiss joke. A Swiss joke. Send us your Swiss jokes. Yeah, okay.

Come on. Come on, Switzerland. And I mean, with the British, we consider ourselves to have a great sense of humour, which I always think, if an individual tells you they've got a great sense of humour, you're always a little wary, aren't you? So why should we be any more secure in the belief that an entire nation has a great sense of humour? But also, most people don't get our sense of humour. Well, do other Britons do, on the whole, although not even then, actually.

No, and we've got some very different types of humour going down. As you go around the country. We've got that sarcasm, which is definitely from the kind of... Well, it's big up north. Yes, yeah. And we've got ribald senses of humour. Which we don't approve of. We don't approve of that at all.

No, greatest tits radio doesn't belong in that category, that's not sure. No, that was just, that was satire when you did that. And we've got satire. And we've got all kinds of things. Can I just say, I've started listening, and I'll be interested in your view on this, to Kamala Harris's book, which is out now.

It's called 107 Days, and it covers the 107 days in which she fought the American presidential election. Have you read any reviews of this book? I have, and I've chosen not to then read the book. So that's interesting that you've chosen to read the book. Well, I wouldn't have chosen to, but I read the reviews, and you can either say the reviews,

is spectacularly ungenerous or that people really do, having read the book, believe that she's let herself off the hook and pile blame elsewhere. I don't know because I'm only about half an hour into the audiobook, which she reads. And I think I'm finding, I can listen to that on my commute. It sits well with that little journey I make every day. So I'm fine with that, but I wouldn't have read it. I have to say she's not the greatest narrator. In fact, she's really quite bad at it. which is odd because she's not a, I mean, she's a good speaker, speech maker. So why is it that, I mean, she quite literally, you would spot it. She just stops in the middle of sentences

and puts the emphasis, I mean, all over the place. It's quite odd, it's quite odd, but I'll stick with it. And of course, the story is so compelling. I mean, it starts with her, you know, sort of fairly routine Sunday morning setting, in a pair of joggers discovering that she's going to have to run for the American presidency. And you want to hear more, don't you, when that's your initial setup? Well, you do, but also isn't stuff like that slightly annoying because you think you can't possibly have not thought about it before, being surprised.

You must have been on alert. The rest of the world was on alert. She does say she was on alert, but Joe Biden did have the capacity to mention something and then sort of not mention it for weeks on it. So you would have been on even higher alert. So do you know what? My reason for not reading it is because, I mean, you can tell already, it just, I can't really take any more disappointment in the political system.

Yeah. So I thought, I read a couple of reviews and I thought, well, if there's not going to be a Mayor Culper revelation here that might be very telling about what's wrong with the Democrat Party at the moment, because there is something wrong with it, There's no other candidate who seems to be competent enough to stand up against Donald Trump. There doesn't seem to be a totem pole

that people can really get round at a time when they need to get around at the most. So I just thought this is going to drive me up the wall because if it's everybody else's fault and she couldn't possibly have seen it coming and there wasn't anything she could have done and no, she shouldn't have changed the things that she said about the border with Mexico.

I'm just going to get so added. Added frustration and anger, maybe it's a bit further down the line. If I find any Mayer Culper moments in the book, I'll let you know. Could you? Yeah. But I think it will be, it'll bring on some teeth grinding, I suspect. But I did want to know just what she was prepared to say. And so far, like I say, I'm only half an hour in.

Joe Biden doesn't come terribly well out of it because his people, they did know. He wasn't strong enough. I'm not casting, who would be strong enough at that advanced age? to take on that role. Yeah, but it shouldn't be left to George Clooney to point that out. And, of course, his young challenger, Donald Trump, such a fit-looking individual.

Yeah. Are you doing Patti Smith's Just Kids? Are you leaving that to the last minute? I haven't really yet. It is wonderful. Is it okay. I'm not surprised that people have recommended it. It's absolutely glorious.

But really weirdly, I'm reading it in tandem with Beyond Borg's autobiography, which I just saw had been, I read a fantastic route about it. I thought I'd read it. One of your dreams are all over the place, love. I really, really want to read that. So I'm just somewhere between Patty and Bjorn most evenings, which is a glorious place to be. I wonder if they ever met.

It'd be good, wouldn't it? Yeah. Let's go straight to Jane from Guilford. Yes, do. Come in, Guilford. Hello, I was working in Plymouth when Damon Hill became a special constable after retiring from Formula One. Apparently, he had to take a driving test.

Oh, for God's sake. Isn't that superb? It is. And Jane also says, did you get many suggestions for the lady from Guilford in episode, whatever it was, on the 26th of August who wanted to meet people? I sent in a few. You may have done them in a programme I haven't heard yet, happy for you to give her my email. Well, because Eve is just astonishingly good and sensible and diligent, we've got the original email that we can read out. Because although we gave out, I think a couple of quite kind of loose suggestions, we didn't do your specific.

specific ones, Jane. So props to Eve and here we go. The Guildford Spike WI, a craft group supper club, book clubs, monthly meetings. Obviously other WIs are available. The rock choir, Jane says, I can't sing, but I love it. And walking netball at Surrey Sports Park on a Friday lunchtime, you don't have to be any good. So those sound like terrific suggestions. I love the idea of walking netball. It's huge, actually, isn't it? Especially for the older, I didn't know it was huge. The thing with netball was always that you couldn't run with the ball anyway. So I guess walking netball is probably, that's logical, isn't it?

Yeah. Did you watch the rugby? No. I did watch it with my parents on Saturday afternoon. Which was, you know, my dad thought the standard was far higher than he'd anticipated. I'm sure that the red roses will be gratified to hear that a 92-year-old former prop forward who met with limited success as a player thought they were surprisingly good.

Anyway, but what I would say was that the spirit did seem fabulous. I've never been to Twickenham, so I don't know anything about that stadium at all. It's not my kind of thing, really. The men do seem to take the whole thing very seriously, but there was a genuinely lovely atmosphere around that game. So well done to the Red Roses and England,

of Red Roses of England, and Ricky Swanell, who is our listener, who predicted that Canada would win, I hope she's just come to terms with her disloyalty, shall we say, to the nation of her favoured podcast because Canada were good, just not as good as England. So well done them. But there's no doubt that rugby isn't a game for everyone.

It's not a game for every man and it certainly isn't a game for every woman because you really have to be, I mean, you've got to be prepared to get stuck in there, Fee. And I would fear for you and I in a scrum. I really would. I mean, I think it's such a profound observation to have had. I just, I think there's quite a long list of sports that are for everyone, Jay.

No, but there's something very particular about just the physical commitment required of a rugby player. I think I would have made an excellent fly half. Well, you may have done if that's, is that one of the positions where you don't have to go in the scrum? Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. Yeah, no, I think, you know, I think you might have been okay. But I don't think we'd have had, I don't think we'd have had the required body. strength to go in as well i disagree okay i think we could you know we could go low and slow right yes well i might try and find a walking rugby club and i'm going to join this in my third age

god be great when there is such a thing instead of that mad dash uh for the try you just go as a gentle pace towards the try life i think it would catch on i would be holding my free travel pass, and taking no prisoners. Now, we've been talking over the last couple of weeks, really, about letters to the press, which seems like a terribly old-fashioned thing, but it is still a thing. People love to write. I say people, I largely mean men, love to write to the papers, to get justice, or just to make sure that everyone in the United Kingdom hears their opinion,

which is vital. We and I have taken the podcast route, and we use a podcast. I don't know what our opinions are. So much simpler and more lucrative as it's turned out. Anyway, Ruth says, Dear Jane and Fee, as a trainee solicitor in Dorking way back in the mid-90s, my litigation supervisor told me that the department's principal income stream came from retired gentlemen who'd achieved a certain standing in their professional lives before retirement. And so in retirement, these gents, quite frankly, needed an axe to grind. they brought their wealth, energy and retirement frustration to our doors, seeking relief through litigation.

We enjoyed a series of ludicrous cases, all of which required seeking opinions from well-known barristers and a trip to London for the client and team. Clients suited and booted and airing his considerable commercial experience at every opportunity. Cases ranged from supermarket plastic bags blowing around a local village, I'm sorry, seeking, to take ownership of a corner of a neighbour's garden after mowing it for an old deer for 20 years and one about copying a font on publicity material visiting barristers in chambers and discussing it man to man was better than sex one client told us

there you go I mean you have got hours to fill in retirement and if you've been an important person you need to keep on being important don't you and this is one way to do it Fast forward, says Ruth, to my father-in-law's retirement as a tax inspector. As far as I can see, he has spent every waking moment since 2001 writing complaining letters about late trains, buses, electric car charging stations and bank statements have all been worthy subjects, although I did try and remonstrate with him when he started writing to his doctors to complain about his medical appointments, never being on time.

Okay. Penelope's of the Hive Unite, she says. Ruth, thank you. Look, you're allowed to take action if action is essential. But things like plastic bags blowing around a village. Is it worth hiring a very expensive legal company to do the do for you? I don't know. I don't know either. I suppose it's quite interesting, isn't it, where you want your complaints and opinion. to go as well, isn't it? So I think women are incredibly good at, in my experience, at sorting out the local issues face-to-face and going along to council meetings. And in fact, we've got something going down in our street at the moment where actually a pretty gender-balanced representation of neighbours is trying to get on with stuff.

But we're doing it at a very micro-level. And I suppose it's that desire which Ruth has absolutely put her finger on to feel important, so you just immediately go for the macro level. And maybe that's why letters to the Times do seem to be dominated by men. They want their opinion out there, whereas I'd probably just go and have a bit of a moan, you know, with my two mates who I met for brunch on Saturday morning. And I would feel that I'd aired my opinion over actually an incredibly tasty cheese and spinach omelette.

Oh, goodness. They're both very envious. Very, very envious. Kind of cheese with cheddar. I don't know, but it was. decently cheesy if you know what I mean because sometimes it can be indecently I agree

well if you've got too much spinach does that funny thing to your teeth doesn't it really nasty kind of chalky film over the top of it anyway there we go yeah chalky film let's hear more about that or rather less if you don't mind quite unpleasant I don't mind at all

do you think anybody has managed to get published as Penelope I don't know we need to keep our eye on the letters page yeah come on Penelope get your letter on the Times letters page but to your point about community action I think that is more likely to be well no it's interesting it's completely gender

gender balanced in your area so maybe I'm wrong sometimes women do and men say men speak yes yeah maybe I mean it's definitely kind of the the strings have been gathered together by women in the street but I just don't I don't want to denigrate the men

because they're being incredibly helpful and they're you know they've There are lots of people who've lived in the street, male people. Male people. Male people, an awful lot longer than me as well, so I don't want to tread on their toes. Yeah, okay.

So, also, the reason I wouldn't go near an omelette because I've never been able to cook one that's good, and I'm a bit wary of them generally. It's meant to be the test of a chef, isn't it? Well, that's why I can wonder. Whether you can get it really lovely and still kind of slightly silky in the middle instead of just boi-yo-yo-yo-yo-yo-y-that kind of rubberiness.

Yeah, no. I like mine when it goes boing. Don't use that as the title of the podcast please. Or do. This one comes only Monday. This one comes in with love from Leslie. I'm 70 this year, and I remember a boy with a nosebleed at primary school,

having recurrent nosebleeds. The school nurse gave him a looped sanitary towel to clip around his ears so he could attend class when times were bad. What a time to be a child. It's like, that's up the boy. lad. That's awful.

Oh dear. We've got some great loop salatry towel stories. Did anyone actually use them for a period? Well, I was never entirely certain. So you wore a belt which then you attached the belt to the loop.

This is before they discovered the sticky thing on the back of a sanitary towel. I believe so. Yeah. God, I mean, life was properly you're better off just using leaves. Or moss. I said, I didn't a Tory MP suggest that once?

Oh, no. I think there were relative, maybe I could be completely wrong, but it's certainly within my lifetime somebody, because you remember all that fuss about VAT on sanitary products? Yes, and Gordon Brown was the first person to say sanitary products in the House of Commons. Yes, let's hope that's included in his obituary when the time comes, hopefully years from now.

Yeah. Because he deserves credit for that, seriously. Yes, he does. He definitely does. Denise in Brecken has got another story about Loop Century Tales. My sister who was 13 was going on a date to the cinema.

This is going to end badly, isn't it? With a new boyfriend and my mum asked her to take me age 10 with her. She wasn't impressed, but dutifully took me along. When we arrived, I went off to the loo while they went off to get the sweets and drinks.

I went into the ladies and noticed the machine, so I twiddled the knobs into my absolute joy, a box popped out. I undid it and thought, oh, it's a sling. So I used the pins to join the loops together and came out into the foyer with my arm in the sling. My sister was mortified as it was a sanitary fork with loops.

It still makes me chuckle now. Oh, Denise. Well, you know, on every front, that's quite an odd story, isn't it? Because being told to go along with your 13-year-olds... To be fair. Yeah, that isn't great. What was the film, by the way? It doesn't say.

Oh, no, I'm quite like to know. What film did you see, actually, when you got your bike's doing? Oh, it was, well, it was part of Photo Month, which is, as the title would suggest, it's a month dedicated to photographic exhibitions and films about photographers, which is happening in the London-wide area. And this was a showing of a film called Tish, which is about Tish Murtha, a photographer from the northeast of England who took extraordinary pictures during the 70s and 80s in particular of where she lived in Newcastle and the surrounding areas

and about the decimation of de-industrialisation caused by the Thatcher government. But her, so you might be thinking, oh, gaud, she's going off on one again. But I would really urge people to look her up because her story is so telling about how you need backup, support, connections, and probably privilege to stay in a creative career. And if you're a working-class girl and she ended up being a single mum too, you know how on earth can you carry on being a documentary maker how can you find the child care needed you know to go and be part of a community to take your photographs and stuff so she was

such a bright light her pictures are beautiful and extraordinary and the film is amazing it's available on various places you'll be able to watch it probably on the youtube or vimeo or even the eye player and i'd urge you to do so it's largely made by her daughter ella as a tribute to her mum so it's absolutely wonderful so we were watching that and then we did a little kind of there was a little Q&A afterwards and we talk quite a lot about women in the arts because it is a really tough one

it's a really really tough one and that well-known expression about not being able to get past the pram and the hall I think is so true for artists because you know you're not employed by somebody and your creativity probably doesn't happen between the hours of free nursery care

so you know so many. You've got to time, your creativity. Yes, and you can't, can you? You just can't be doing that. Which means that the world is shown to us by people who on the whole are not like us. Yes, and that's an excellent point, sister. Thank you. But that's the whole point, isn't it? The things that then live on

tend to be from the same type of person. He's got the same type of mindset who comes from the same type of background and it just all feeds into the same loop. brawls on or not, which is what, there's so many female nudes in art and very, relatively speaking, hardly any male nudes viewed by women.

Yes, that's the truth. Yeah, so can we just, and we're going to make a plea to all... I tell you what, Penelope's busy. I mean, she's got, what's she got to do? She's got to persuade a man to get his kit off now. Well, no, I'd like to see more female artists, yes, frankly. More female artists interpreting

the male form. Yeah, I'll be silly for the sake of it. so people can see it and we can assess because there's just female nudes where I remember when I first went on a school trip to the National Gallery with very young primary school children some of them were screaming when they saw the naked women they didn't want to be exposed to these

well you can imagine but they're all by men yes but I mean I think it's I think the female form is nicer to look at than the male form I mean it's you know I it's one of the things I feel sorriest for men about I think it looks uncomfortable It's difficult It's got a lot going on

Surely somebody will be inspired by this To write a letter And get it published I would hope so Ruth has emailed She says You mentioned a book recently called Leonard and Hungry Paul

I'm halfway through And I found it to be one of the most unusual and endearing books I've read in years Ruth we didn't just mention it We did a whole podcast about it in the book club so when you finished it go and find our podcast episode about Leonard and Hungry Paul

because I agree with you it is such a lovely book it is unusual I would say it was almost exceptional actually it's by a man called Ronan Hessian if you haven't read it and it's going to be on the telly I think later this year or next year

so loads of other people we're rabbiting on about it but we were relatively early in the Leonard and Hungry Paul phenomenon weren't we I think I mean relatively because obviously it had been a big hit in Ireland I think but we got there in the end

anyway she also made mentions the interview with the astronaut Joan Higginbotham of last week. And we know that very, very soon, well, within the next couple of years, NASA very much hopes to have another astronaut on the moon and actually standing on the moon. And it has always been the view that that person won't be a white man. It just won't be, which is a question that I put to Joan. And she said, oh, well, we're not really sure. But I think it just won't be. And Ruth had said that her space mad kids had persuaded her to take them to the National Space Centre in Leicester. Now, it's not quite the Kennedy Space Centre, but hey, Lester's entitled to have a space centre, isn't it? Of course it is. Yeah. It was a great day out, actually, she says. We went back twice more that year to really get our money's worth out of an annual pass, and I honestly do very, very highly recommend it. Please see the photo attached of a game of guess who

that was in one of the exhibits about the faces of all the people who have walked on the moon they are all white blokes there are 12 of them and they've all got brown hair right my boys who were quite small at the time

were both quite alarmed at my rage at this exhibit they have since recovered but I'm not sure I have Ruth thank you very much I mean it's fair to say that when they did land on the moon It was really quite some time ago.

It's back in the late 60s and 70s, isn't it? It's 1969. That was when they first did it. And I think there were a few more after that in the 70s. I mean, I don't know, to my shame, exactly when they did do it. But it's right to say that so far no woman has actually set foot on the moon, as far as we know.

I mean, that's only in our recorded time, isn't it? Interesting. You think maybe, what, there's a Ken Follett book brewing about space travel in the stonet? it's Ken Follett week here on our fair Oh no don't say that because we've got other amazing guests

because that's throwing a bit of shade on Least Doucette Oh I wouldn't do that in a million years and I know that book is very interesting but Ken Follett fans will need to know that we're talking Stonehenge on Thursday So anyway

Just to say Ruth I'm with you I'd be livid too if I'd seen that exhibit with all the blokes who'd landed on the moon But when they were doing that kind of thing Back in the 70s It's when they stopped When we stopped when we are current earthlings

stop doing it. It was just thought that women couldn't possibly go into space. It was just not not even a faint possibility, I don't think. So that's why I remain, if I were a betting woman,

I'd put money on the fact that it'll be a woman who next puts her space boot on the moon. A lovely little space boot. Tiny, fair-lined. It'll be ever so petite. Probably have a little heel.

A little heel. Just a heel. Just to remind her, that it's a lady. Maybe it'll be a slingback boot. You've got a new boot there, haven't it? It's very shiny on the soul. Oh, good. Well, aren't you wearing new boots? No. These just look new. These are fantastic. They're not even, they're vegan boots. I didn't, I mean, I didn't deliberately do that. I bought them and went for a burger.

A little bit of virtue signaling, which failed at the last minute when you went for a burger, yes. But it's just a material, which is actually superb because it means you can just kind of wash them. Right. of suede that just you can't wash so I highly recommend that. Yeah and the burger was nice too. I think it's very much it's a beautiful day actually we should say beautiful autumnal morning here in London

but it's very much get your boots on kind of weather isn't it? Oh isn't it? Yeah very much it is hello jumpers my old friends it's that time of year again. Do you know what for I hand washed a couple of jerseys at the weekend? Did you? Yes I do I tell you what can I bring if I made some of my toasted breadcrums and I've got a little jar at home if you want some of those

Oh yes. Could I give those to you and also a couple of really, really bobbly jumpers? Because that's quite a task. Can you debobble my jumpers? No, get a thing. Get a thing to do it. It's really boring.

No, there'll be a... Surely in your part of London there'll be a debobbling shop that will have popped up. Yes, probably. A debobbling pop-up. There will be. Yep.

Yeah. What would it be called? Oh, God, that's for the hive mind. Yeah, we'll leave that there. A couple of very quick ones from me, but you've been terrifically funny over the weekend. and we're always really grateful. This one comes in from Caroline

who says my 11-year-old nephew saw The Horse on TV and declared the horse to be called Trumpy McTrump bum. It's great. And, oh, now this one just made me laugh this morning. It's from Trish. You very kindly read up my email

about my husband's first encounter with my dishcloth-wielding mother for the unforgivable sin of daytime television viewing. I said, I'd seen you in Colchester. You professed never having been to the oldest recorded city. Clearly the charms of my nearest city passed you by.

I found the advertising. You were great. And there it is. So we did. We went to Colchister. We've spent so much time on the road. We are a little bit like the Rolling Stones. And we can't always remember every single.

But it's deeply, deeply worrying that neither of us could remember it. No. And we just assumed it was Barry St. Edmonds. I think that's such a dreadful. slight on culture stuff but I still can't quite bring it back it doesn't instantly spring to mine but it was a busy year so perhaps we should run through some of the guests

we've got the wonderful Leicesterette who's on tomorrow she's written I think it's already a bestseller isn't it this book about the hotel in Kabul in Kabul and it's so beautiful and I will try and get through even more of it before I interview her tomorrow but she didn't want to write a book she was asked to write a book and has been asked to write her memoir many, many times, and she didn't want to write about herself because she doesn't want herself to be the main thing in her life.

And it is such a beautiful concept to write about this hotel. And it tells you more about the history of Kabul and Afghanistan than I think most of us are able to take in when we read it as political history or military history. So, I mean, just total props to her. It is a really, really beautiful book. So she's on tomorrow. when is your ken coming in

again's coming in on Thursday yes definitely now Wednesday is Janis Varifakis the former Greek finance minister who's written actually quite an interesting book it's really a book about the women in his life and the impact of the Greek history over the last 100 years

on his for example his grandmothers and his own mother and it's interesting he's he's tempting to bring the women out of the shadows and into the light. That's good. Yes. I mean, it's taken him to do it. I mean, you could say, why didn't you let you, why didn't they write a book?

No, but then we wouldn't interview them, would we? So, I think that's great. I tell you what, it does make you realize, well, I mean, you can say this about every country, how little we know about what other countries have experienced. We're so, we are very parochial, and I definitely accused myself of that. I hadn't really appreciated just how much Greece had gone through in the Second World War, for example and then there was a civil war there was a military dictatorship

it's all gone on so where's their royal family now there was a Greek royal family there was a man who used to crop up a lot in the sort of gossip columns very much so yeah but I was always I was thought

completely absurdly he was always referred to as ex-king and as far as I'm concerned you're either a king or you're not the people either want you or they don't And as soon as they don't want you, you're not any kind of a king. You're not an ex-king. Should we start calling Prince Andrews something different? Well, do you know what?

I think that's a really good idea. I think it would be a really good idea. And as for the fact that they're banned from the Royal's Christmas, I mean, you have to ask, would any family in Britain be prepared to have those two around on Christmas Day? No. Exactly. No. Right. On that topical assertive it. It's a very, very topical.

Wonderful stuff, Jay. Wonderful stuff. As they say elsewhere, that's all we've got time for. An expression, I will never... I know. I can't stand it! I know.

Deep breaths. Sorry, it's time for my sandwich. It's time. It's time. Time and out. It'll be immense. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.