Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I never claimed to be consistent!

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Jane and Fi are reunited, but they’re in new, cosier surroundings… They cover milk-bottle glasses, moving schools, Wuthering Heights, three-legged cats, children in restaurants, and who sat on the lesbians. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Join us actually. Fee's mid-a-a-a-ad anecdote, so plow on with it. Well, no, only because we're doing something a little bit different today, aren't we, which you're going to explain in a second. Oh, God. Why do I have to explain it? Because sometimes you have to take on the onerous duties that come with the privilege of having been born four years before me. That one, actually. You've got more epaulettes on your shoulder than I have.

Is that the right thing? It probably is. Carry on with the story. Okay. Well, we're doing something different, which means that I can see how I look today, which I tend to avoid at all costs these days. And I can see that my glasses are actually, they're now milk bottle thick. That's what we used to call them at school,

the cruelty of the playground. And a friend of mine, I bumped into him when I was walking the dog the other day, and I had my jacket pulled right up, because it was very, very windy and horribly cold, and my hat pulled all the way down. And he said, you are mostly glasses now. Have you thought about having a new lens put in?

And I thought, well, and I said, Okay, you have to have fortune to have that super slim thing. And he said, no, a new lens in your eye. And he's had new lenses put on his eyes, Jay. Well, how much did that sit in back? Well, he's had it done on the NHS. Oh, I see. Well, that's a different matter.

Yes, and I didn't want to ask why. No. But I thought, would that be something that I would consider in order to get rid of it? And he said it's brilliant because he's not mostly face furniture now. He's quite a blunt man. Sounds lovely I might walk to a different part now In future

That manly intervention was almost certainly well-intention Don't Don't overthink it darling Anyway it's good to have you back It's nice to be back And I did think that you wouldn't miss anything last week But actually as it turned out you did a bit Oh my goodness

So I would like you to just talk me through In infinitesimal detail What happened on Thursday morning Because I know where I was And I genuinely, Jane, I think it's one of those pieces of news that we will all remember where we were when we heard that Prince Andrew had been arrested. I totally agree. So where were you? Well, it's not a particularly thrilling anecdote, but I was just emerging from London Bridge Underground Station.

And I absolutely, even I were talking about this last week in your absence, we've got to be honest about this. This is, quotes, a great story. But it's also something that is immensely triggering. for a lot of people who've been through abuse and through horrific experiences in the past. And I think many of us feel right now, we want, this is possibly the start of a really important process, but we can't be certain where it's all going to end.

And it could take years, couldn't it? It could, but I think you're absolutely right. And on Thursday, and then we will get back to what you did next, because I know it involved buying chocolate, and that's a thing that I want to talk about, without being facetious or offending anybody at all because of the serious nature of it. But already people are saying,

oh, you know, but it's an arrest that isn't about women. It is not about the other things that we know Epstein did. Other people should be charged for all of that. But it definitely, definitely would make that investigation more likely if the police had access to what they want to have access to for this. Exactly. And we have to have faith in the system.

And from what I've listened to, and I've listened to a lot, and I've read a lot of stuff over the last couple of days, I'm sure everybody has, really. They are searching properties in a painstaking fashion and plowing through presumably hundreds of thousands of documents that may lead us to something really pretty pivotal. I'm going to say this, in our national story fee. Well, very much so.

It feels that way, doesn't it? It does, but also in the way that we regard the testimony of other people of women and girls. I mean, it's just going to become a moment in time. We were talking about this upstairs, weren't we? The way that, I mean, the eggshell has been cracked now, hasn't it? Salvo who has been fired from normal land. We live in normal land where if you were to send emails to someone who had been convicted of paedophilia, you would expect consequences from it.

That's a fact. And we can put in Prince Andrew, the former Prince Andrew, denies any wrongdoing as much as we need to for legal reasons. But the Epstein files have revealed correspondence between him and Geoffrey Epstein after his conviction. So I think we're on solid ground there to talk about. I think we are. Okay, thank you. Looking to for reassurance.

But cast your mind back, Jane, to the Diamond Jubilee, 2022 of the Queen. where it was openly talked about that a settlement had been reached and Virginia Jafray had been paid because it would be really unhelpful to the Queen to have her diamond jubilee year mired in the controversy of allegations of serious sexual assault. Yeah, and we didn't want that wonderful national celebration to be in any way besmirched. So, and you're absolutely right to point to this, we knew, we knew that this was. woman had been given millions of pounds. Now where it's come from, that's another part of the story, who actually coughed up the 12 million quid, if it was indeed 12 million. We don't yet know,

although some people, I think notably the king, have said, well, it wasn't me. But we went with it. We thought, oh yeah, okay, yeah. That makes sense. Andrew had never met this woman, this lady, and he said he'd never met her. But, I mean, who hasn't shipped a million quid lump to some they'd never met who'd made unbecoming allegations about. And I'm in no way belittling. The Virginia Juffray story ended with her suicide. This is a deeply troubling set of circumstances. It's so troubling.

It's awful. It's so troubling. And that shut door that so many victims have felt, every which way they've turned, I think that just is a chink of light at the moment. You and I and, you know, everybody who, we have reasonable conversations with Jane will never entertain having a conversation like that about a diamond jubilee or a coronation or whatever it is, you know, being slightly ruined by something

a little bit difficult, mucky or whatever it is. A little bit nasty. We will never do that again. So that's the moment, isn't it? That's the moment. I think we've, we live through that moment on Thursday. Let's just fingers crossed hope it leads to justice for the people who, are desperate for it. You need it the most. We really, really do. So you came into work and now we'll just change gear and we'll talk about the journalistic side of it. So you came into work but you stopped

to buy some chocolate for the team. It's an important fact. I just knew that people would need sugar. A lot of sugar. And there are many reasons why I haven't hung up my headphones as we say in broadcasting, which always makes me laugh because you don't hang them anywhere anyway.

They just go on the floor. But anyway, that's always what they used to say about retiring broadcasters, wasn't it? He's hung up his headphones. It usually was a he. And we miss them dearly, except we don't because none of us are indispensable. I can't bear it, but it's true. I'm going to open my coffee cup. You do that.

I don't want people to think that that's a different sound. I'm not that kind of woman. God. And as you know, I'm definitely not. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh, yes. One of the many reasons I've not retired is that I just, don't want to miss being in a newsroom on days like last Thursday.

And I know you were at home and you wanted to be in a newsroom too. Well, I did because it's our job, isn't it? You really said our duty. No, I didn't. You're not far off being right there. No, because it's our job. So you just know, I mean, I don't know whether other people feel like this about their profession. But when something big happens, you just think, I know what I usually do.

in situations like that and it's not just you know sit down and and watch it on the television you're usually just busy you know doing stuff and phoning people and all of that but i'd just come out of the lido i hadn't switched on my phone so i did come to it a wee bit later and it was one of those things as well where i walked back and i passed lots of people along the way i mean you know there wasn't a sense that something momentous had happened in in uh anybody else's life and that's that's also the difference between being a journalist and not being a journalist. You think things and the timing of them to get to it first and to be across it first is really important. But loads of people can just wait until 10 o'clock and watch it on the news.

Oh yeah, they're fine. I'll never forget travelling back from Rishi Sunak's constituency after the general election in 2024 where I've been with a colleague of ours from Times Radio to cover the count. And we travel back to London the next morning on a really crowded train. We had to stand. There was nowhere to sit. not a single person talked about politics. There had been a seismic shift in the governance of our nation.

Literally no one referenced it. Well, I had exactly the same experience coming back from Jeremy Hunt's constituency. And I've practiced saying that so often I like to be able to say it now. And I went to the Burger King at Waterloo Station to get some hash browns at 6 o'clock in the morning. And I remember looking around thinking, no, nothing's changed. I mean, there's just no discernible sense of movement at all. But there had been, there'd been a seismic change. Colossal.

But that's one of the privileges of growing up in a country like ours, which is relatively benign and relatively untroubled. Yeah, but it doesn't take a military coup in order to shift to government. But I genuinely think the Andrew saga, the Epstein saga, it well and truly passes the bus stop test, people and the pub test. People are talking about it. Oh, definitely. As soon as you got to hear about it, I think you wanted to be able to discuss.

And we won't really know, I mean, irrespective of whether or not charges are brought, we won't really know the impact of it for a little while because it's, you know, it's released something. It's released a change in deference, a change in people's willingness to front up the powerful. And it has in this country, whether or not it's changed anything in America where, you know, there are scenes of crimes there is yet to be decided, really, isn't it? Yeah, I think it really is. Because he's been exonerated.

President Trump has been exonerated. Oh, President Trump's done absolutely nothing. He's in the clear. According to President Trump. Yeah. So it must be true. Oh, of course. Anyway, unbelievably, we've had some emails.

Yes. I want to hear about Eve's clubbing. Now, we've just got to explain what's happening here because I can't go for very much longer without comments. on your lip gloss. We've forgotten to explain. Do you like my lip gloss? Well, I don't think I've ever seen you.

No. With a drippy lip glass. No, I... But you've got a drippy lip gloss on. I have got a drippy lip gloss. And that is because we are in our... We've talked. We have alluded, haven't we, over the last couple of months,

to the coming... The inevitability of visualization of off-air with Jane of V. We're having a little rehearsal today, so you're not going to be able to access my slippery lip gloss. No, but... But don't worry, dear listener, I'm going to make sure she's wearing it in few. No, no, I'm never...

It's a thing of wonder. It is a thing of wonder. We are in our studio while we're... Sorry, just a second. Yes? Is it flavoured? It isn't flavoured, no. Well, that's a shame.

What a missed opportunity. Pink grapefruit, if I'd had the chance. We are in our studio. I'm determined to finish this. And we are doing what's called... What is this? A pilot. Yes, it is a pilot.

Never really understood that term. Now, we do have a fire. And this is... I've already said to me, I feel as though I've been trapped, I've been locked overnight in an IKEA shop, which actually wouldn't be so bad for me. It wouldn't be bad at all. What a feast that would be.

But it's an IKEA showroom with its own gas fire. Yes, so it's got, well, it's a fake gas fire, isn't it? It's a fake gas fire, yeah, with fake logs. Fake logs, it's just superimposed, isn't it, in kind of film, on the background. But the really weird thing is my back feels warmer than my front. Do you know what? So does mine. That gives you a very special little wintry tingle, which is inappropriate.

I understand it's going to be 18 Celsius in London, sprufully this week. So if we do, then start doing the visualization on a daily basis, which if we sink deep enough into these armchairs as a possibility, then I think that we do need to keep that fire going all the way through the summer months.

So we can feel it on our backs when we're wearing little strappy sun dresses. My God, you want me in slippery lip gloss and a strappy sundress? Well, it's all my dreams come true. What a summer this is turning out to be. Eve is a... Eve is a...

going to carry on appearing when we're, because we're in this studio together. The doors have been locked. It's just you and me. I mean, there's also an air of the crazy about that. It's slightly gothic. It is a bit weird. But Eve is going to appear as voice of God.

Well, can we try that now? Come in, Eve. Hello. God, I don't think I... Wow, that tastes quite a lot of getting used to. Just say something else. Is it a bit loud? It's just a bit kind of...

You're coming from the other side. I mean, it's just... Just... Spooky. Oh, it's nowhere near Halloween. Stop it. Okay. Just very briefly, because Fee wasn't here, Eve.

Just outline what happened in Berlin, if you can, in a couple of sentences. I hit the clubs. Mm-hmm. Had some lovely food and wine. Right. Was not completely charmed by the city. So you've written off Berlin. I mean, to be honest, that could have been the answer to how was your weekend on the Isle of White?

Or indeed London. Oh, okay. Right. Well, there we are. Let us know what you think about this iteration of off air. Obviously, we are still available for your emails. Jane and Fee at times.com. Yeah, you'll get used to it.

We'll get used to it. It's the 21st century. Yeah. Do you think there is something that you do? Do you have a visual tick that you're going to have to really think about not doing? Well, I've got so many. I wouldn't. You do bite your nails sometimes in the studio.

I panic a lot and that's how I express it for you. Is it? Yes. Okay. I'm much more anxious than you give me credit for. I don't believe that for a second. I do not believe that for a second. But anyway, there are upsides to it being visualised

because you'll be able to see some of the very random facial expressions that are occasionally used. Sarah in Bath had a wry smile when listening to Eve's account of clubbing in Berlin. I was just on my way home from my annual get-together with my university friends. We're now in our early 50s. So this has been going on for many years now and is always a highlight of the year and a delightful mix of hysteria chat banter and often tears.

I used to live in Berlin and one of my uni friends still does live there. She recounted a tale where she had had to dash through airport security at such speed that she was boiling on arrival at the gate and drenched in sweat upon embarking the aeroplane. Not willing to sit in her sweat-drenched clothes, she simply removed her woolen dress and sat on the flight in her thin top and tights. We all found this most amusing and linked to her many years. years in Berlin where Berliners remove their clothing without a second thought by the lakes in the summer

and according to Eve expect the clubbers to remove layers if not subscribing correctly to the dress code. Listen to that. Have you ever got on a plane and got undressed yet? I suspect because I'm not a young clubber if I did do so, I would be arrested and led off the flight. So let's just, I mean that's something you can do when you're a young person. You can't do it now. It's quite good, isn't it? Her thin top and tights. Well, I mean, I didn't know the German. I suppose they've always had quite a positive relationship with nudity. Yeah.

I did get on a flight coming back. It was a British Airways one coming back from a sunny destination one summer. And the air stewardesses did ask a girl who was wearing very, very little to put more clothes on before she got on the airplane. And it was one of those slightly weird things because you kind of thought, what gives you the right to ask her? But she was basically wearing a bikini. Okay, no, that's... And their point was, if we had an accident, that's going to be inappropriate.

You know, she just had kind of slightly boxier bottoms on. And a bra. And a bra. But there was quite a lot of, oh, gosh, that's a bit weird, isn't it? I always feel a bit... You know, when you see people in airports slopping around in flip-flops when it's winter in Britain? Yeah.

That annoys me. Yes. I just think they're saying... that. Look at me. I can afford to go somewhere hot. And also you can't run in a flip-flop. It's a very, very unsafe shoe. It is a very, very, oh, that reminds me. I did fall over again last week. Sorry, I don't mean to laugh.

No, it's fine, no. And honestly, I think it genuinely made Eve's year. That was on Thursday. Did you fall off a chair? No, I fell between two chairs. We were all a bit giddy on Thursday, and I had to pre-record an interview with the brilliant journalist, Felicity Specter, about her book, Bread and War, which is about Ukraine. And it's the fourth year anniversary today of the Russian invasion. It's apt. I can't believe that the level of suffering.

Anyway, Felicity was great. And in my excitement to speak to Felicity on a day that had already been quite exciting, I ran into our studio at Times Radio. And I simply tried to get on one of the chairs, but in fact I tried to grip both chairs and put myself down, on neither chair but in the middle of both chairs and frankly landed arse over tit on the floor and it was quite funny wasn't it eve said the voice of the goddess in the sky here's caroline who's in the scottish borders yes welcome back for you she says thursday's episode started with a good life lesson jane taking a tumble in pursuit of a chair well you can't be old jane because the saying is if you fall over you can tell if you're old or young by the reactions of others If you're old and fall, then people drop everything and come running to see if you're okay. And if you're young, people usually wander over or point and laugh.

As Eve laughed, that must mean you're young, Jane. Well, take that. I will. Yeah. I've loved the contrast this week. It's nice to hear the deep, velvety voice of Eve, mixed with the cool cotton of Jane, and I'll look forward to the mellow tweed tones of fee next week. I like that.

That's a lovely description. That is interesting, isn't it? and she's in the Scottish borders, so mellow tweed is probably... I'll take mellow tweed. Yeah, probably something Caroline's very familiar with. You sound like one of our posher listeners, Caroline. Thank you for that. Well, done.

Yeah, all right, raising the tone. That's the problem, isn't it, with Eve? She can just butt in whenever she wants to. This is a whole new level. Yeah, she's out of our control. Yeah, she is. Most of the emails are about Eve. It's disconcerting.

This is Angela Clark Javois, who also, I think maybe one of our posh listeners. I can't wait to hear what Eve thought of this version. Now, this is Wuthering Heights. So presumably, did Eve go and see it after you'd had the podcast finished on the Thursday? You haven't discussed this. No, we haven't. Should we just ask, Eve, in a couple of seconds,

can you just give us a three-word review of what you thought of Wuthering Heights? What three words? Yes. Have you seen it? No. Okay. Well, that's unhelpful. I haven't seen it either.

Terrific. All yours, Eve. I thought No, just three words Just three words A bit shallow Oh, okay Okay, right

A bit shallow And it's quite rumpy-pumpy, isn't it? There was a... Rosie is it behind me saying no, not But that's her preference I thought there was a bit of rompy-pumpy, yes That's interesting Because people my age

You've gone to see it Have come out saying There's so much rumpy-pumpy I just think the boundaries have changed Yes, absolutely Very very much change I went to see the moment, you know, the Charlie X-E-X film at the weekend.

I don't know that one at all. What's that about? Oh, my goodness. It's a mockumentary. Right. So it's sending up the Brat Summer and it stars Charlie X-E-X. So she's sending herself up? Yes. Right. Good for her. And it features Jamie Demetriot, who we always know as Dathletts Flats. Oh, yeah. And a whole host of other, I mean, it's well cast. It's quite odd. We were the oldest people in the cinema by 30 years, maybe 35 years. And we went to see it in...

So did you try really hard not to make a noise when you got up? Well, I mean, we just did. Our knees were just creaking all over the place. It's been a little... It's had a mixed review

from even the generation. What would they be? Zedders? I don't know. I always get that confused. But it's quite good actually, Jane. It's quite good. She's good at sending herself up.

I think she's got quite a talent there. Oh, well. In terms of the acting and stuff. and she's quite mesmerisingly beautiful as well. That's my review. And she did the music for Wuthering Heights, didn't she? Yes, yeah. So she is everywhere at the moment.

And the opening for the mockumentary thing, I don't think you can see it in great big cinemas. I'm moving, hang on. It's not the slickest thing I've ever seen. I know, I just feel a little dependent. Yeah. She did the opening at the local cinema in Clapton because she's an East London resident.

So the local spa has been decked out in the, green of a brat summer, which is just quite... I just wonder how many people, you know, walking past it on their way to the Homerton A&E actually make the connection. I hope a lot of people do. I'm sure. Anyway, that was my cultural highlight of last week. Right.

When was the Brat summer? When was it? Yeah. Was it two summers ago? It was the Kamala Harris summer. Yes. Which turned out not to be... 2024.

Yeah. Oh, gosh, not that long ago. Now last week on the podcast and indeed on the Times Radio show Monday to Thursday get the Times Radio app It's free, two to four, we're on. We interviewed, not we, me. Just you. Maggie Adairn, Dame Maggie Adairn.

Now, she's such an interesting person and actually she was really hoping, as I was, that Artemis II would get off the ground relatively soon and get to the moon, but it's been put back again after another wet dresser rehearsal. Yeah, I do find the wet dress thing just very strange, Jane. The term wet dress rehearsal is something I'm going to cling to as being one of my new phrases of 2026. But anyway, more problems.

Is that what we're doing now? Kind of. Well, I'm not, no, I'm not going to go there. Kind of, yes. So Maggie is disappointed, as we all are, that that NASA expedition to the moon is now. We don't know when it's going to be. But that wasn't what she was really talking about. She talked about her memoir Star Child, which is just out now.

And Maggie in her adolescence and childhood had been to third. 13 different schools. Which is crazy. Yeah, but she now knows that's crazy. But in her childhood, she just went with it as we all do. And why did she go to so many? Were her parents in the forces? No, parents divorced.

And things were a little challenging. There were four daughters in the family, lived mostly with their dad, who had quite a tough time looking after the girls and earning a living. And for various reasons, Maggie went to a whole string of school. in different parts of the country, many of them boarding schools. But she was totally, she didn't completely lack bitterness about the whole thing,

but now realises that going to 13 different schools isn't normal and does really cause issues for you. And quite a few people have been in touch to say that they think about Dawn French when they think about all this, because she did have her dad in the forces, didn't she? Yes, and she moved around a lot. Yeah. When Fiona says I went to nine schools, Air Force father.

I know Dawn French had a similar life and said it had made her a gregarious joker. It had the opposite impact on me, says Fiona. I think that repeated loss of friends has resulted in a kind of acceptance of the loss. Keeping in touch has been quite tough over the years. I have one dear friend from the second secondary school where she was given me to look after.

55 years on and many moves since she still does, which is really sweet, isn't it? not a life I'd wish on anybody really and then of course there was my poor mother a long time listener love to you both and Eve says Fiona well thank you very much for that and let me just read one more

about multi-schools this is from Jill as instructed on Thursday's off air I'm responding to your interest in many schools my parents were in the RAF we were moved sometimes with as little as six weeks notice I just think sometimes

the strain on forces families is not something the rest of us appreciate. No. And to what, Jane, I think that's why, you know, people who are a little bit dismissive of boarding school educations sometimes need to take a breath. Because an awful lot of boarding schools take the kids of parents who are in the forces and it is their only stability. You know, where else are you meant to go? How are you meant to live if people are stationed abroad all the time? Carry on. Jill says, I went to four junior schools in Bridge North, Box Hill, Leatherhead and Derbyshire. So that's so spread out. It wasn't just total culture changes, but also having entirely the wrong accent, moving to Derbyshire with a Surrey accent, I was teased for being really posh.

I then went to four senior schools, Middlesex, in Birmingham, again in Derbyshire. Six weeks notice we went to Cyprus, and I went to an RAF comprehensive, where I sat next to a girl who was six. and she'd been to 16 separate schools and got all her GCSEs. Wow, I mean, that's remarkable. My experience was positive, sad to leave lovely friends, but excited at new possibilities. Distresses, though, at having the wrong coloured uniform.

That always happened. Dawn French said, when you spoke to her, that there was the opportunity to reinvent yourself, and I did find this to be true. Okay, yes, I hadn't, I mean, it's good to be reminded of something. French said to us, we can't remember everything that's been said to us. But I do remember asking her whether she thought that that number of school moves

had made her much more of an observer of people than a joiner iner because you're constantly going to be thrown in, on you? You're going to have to work out who's who, where the hierarchy is, who it is who, you know, you want to be liked by and you want to like. And she said, no, that wasn't the case at all. She didn't find that. But I wonder whether maybe she was wrong about herself, Jane. I, it's possible. It's unlikely. Can I just do the end of Jill's lovely email? Because I think she says that's so interesting here. Long-winded email, not at all, Jill. We've had far, far longer. We're on thin ice with long-winded. God knows. Apologies, just like to finish by saying, despite all this moving, I'm now 71. I'm still in touch with my Cyprus St. John's cohort of school friends. And we meet each year, including our teachers. Would you want to go back?

to school reunions every year or whatever that included your teachers too. Well, her teachers must be, how old are they? Quite old, I would have thought. Yeah. And she did give a shout out to her art and drama teachers, Don Moffat and Norman Later, who was so instrumental in starting me on my successful

and thoroughly enjoyable career path. Well, Jill, I mean, what an interesting life. But yes, your teachers must be quite old by now. I can't imagine anything worse. My apologies to the entire staff room of all of the schools I ever attended. They don't want to see me again. I don't want to see them.

Oh, no. You don't know. I do know. Oh, yeah, but you probably do know, yeah. Yeah. Would you want to? No, I've had lunch with my old English teacher. Have you? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Very pleasant.

On whose instigation? This is a while ago. I hope she's all right. But it was, how did it come to? I can't remember how it came about, but it was perfectly pleasant. God, I couldn't do that, Jane. Maybe you were a different type of pupil.

I was a pain in the arse. No, you see, I wasn't really. Yeah. I was quite a lot. I might find that hard to believe. And I did like English. And if you like the subject, and this woman in particular did encourage me.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, you like a lunch. And I'll also like a lunch. It's a perfect combination. That is perfectly true. Can I just say I went through a very high, and I know you're a dog owner and lover. But what does you view on this? I went and had a pub lunch and a much praised.

local establishment in West London last Sunday. Food was fine. It wasn't quite as good as I don't, but it was fine. But what I did feel angry about was that quite a few people in this pub had huge dogs with them. And I mean huge dogs. And these creatures, one was a Dalmatian, was allowed to sort of, they were allowed to kind of lull up about. And I think there's an assumption on the part of some dog owners that other people will love their dog as much as they do. Now when I'm eating my roast potatoes and gravy, I don't necessarily want a Dalmatian

Slobbering in the vicinity Yeah Anywhere near my plate Well I'm completely with you Oh thank goodness So sometimes I'll take Nancy to a restaurant When we've been away on holiday And I can't leave her anywhere

You know I can't leave her in the holiday home That we're in or whatever Or in the car I've taken her into pubs and stuff But Nancy's pretty good So if I put her blanket down for her She'll just sit Lies down in the corner

But the problem with a big dog As well as they are at table high And I just think that's revolting And really unhygienic And you don't want to slobber anywhere near you No, you don't And yeah, I just get annoyed And actually, we never really had a chat about Jan Leaming

Not a phrase I don't have to stop saying in 2026 Can I just say, do you remember the Jan Leaming seminal moment I actually saw it live Do you remember what happened to her? Did she sit on the lesbians? No, that was Nicholas Witchell Oh, that was funny. And that actually was, I now realize that the women protesting had every right to do so.

Oh, God, totally. It was about Section 28, wasn't it? It was. I mean, good luck to your ladies. I wonder where you are now. It's gone down in television history. Oh, no, it has. If you know what happened to those protesters, or if you are one, please contact us.

It's such a good shout-out. Yeah. Apart from anything else, how did you get in and make it as far as a live studio? That's a good point. Just incredible. I mean, the amount of lanyard use that you have to get into a studio now. There was a time when you didn't need a lanyard. Yeah, and that's very true.

And anybody could walk into Broadcasting House, and they did. And they did. There was that woman who had left the BBC 20 years previously, but had come back every day for lunch. She just wandered around. That's not a bad idea, actually. I'm just writing that, don't. What was the seminal Jan Leaming moment?

When a light bulb went in a camera. A bulb went, and it flashed in front of when. She carried on. Did she? But then she carried on. What a trooper. And I'm such a nerd. I do remember it was a Saturday lunchtime bulletin.

Right. Gosh, we weren't allowed to watch television on a Saturday. Well, up north, anything went. Blimey. Just to say that Jan has sprung back into the headlines. Yes, because she went for a very expensive lunch with a friend of hers at a restaurant. And she felt that their lunch experience had been really ruined by some very, rowdy kids. Was it lunch or dinner? I think it was lunch, wasn't it? Does it matter? Well, it does in the

contest of what she was saying because she said she thought kiddies should be kept at home. Yeah. But I think it's quite normal to take your kiddies out for a lunch, isn't it? I mean, dinner is more challenging, obviously, but it's wrong with a lunch. Maybe. But her point was, you know, if you're going to go and you're going to pay quite a lot of money, part of what you're paying for is the ambiance and the atmosphere and they were a bit that in her opinion the kids were a bit out of control and it did start a bit of you know parents versus non-parents war which you can ignite oh very easily at any time over anything can't you and you know I found other people's kids annoying in restaurants I found other people annoying in restaurants Joan I mean they don't have to have kids with them have you

have you ever told off and obnoxious okay but I need to ask you this have you ever told off an person's child. I think this is such a fascinating area. No, I haven't either. And I haven't, I felt I just completely incapable of doing so. Yeah. So I think this is a really fascinating, another fascinating area of how we interact with even our best friends, our people closest to us. I would tell off my nephews, that's a bit different. But I haven't really had to, but I would. Yeah. And I would completely be at ease with my sister when they were. were younger shouting at my children. That's absolutely fine.

But there's something about a friend doing it. What's the difference? It's just a territorial thing, isn't it? Is it? Blood is thicker than water? What is it? Yes, I'm just trying to think. I mean, I've never needed to tell my sister's kids off either.

Would I have done it if I'd needed to? I mean, I would have told them off. I think there's always a line, isn't there? Yeah. It's a health and safety situation. Yes. Then you scream. Or I think that, I mean, the very kind of,

maybe it's a bit passive, aggressive thing to do is to point at somebody else across the restaurant who's being made uncomfortable by the kids who's misbehaving on your table. So you're not doing it, but you're saying, look at that person over there. They're doing it. What do you think of that?

But I think it's a very difficult one, Jane. And undoubtedly, I'm with Jan Leaming on some kids' behaviour being a bit too much in public sometimes. I think if they're really, really, rollicking and screaming. Not if they're babies. Babies can't help it. But, you know, if they're eight, nine years old, I think maybe that's a bit much. I know myself that I wouldn't complain at all, even if it completely and utterly ruined a magical occasion, I wouldn't complain. But then I'd seethe about the fact that I hadn't complained. And I'd carry it with me for quite some time.

But that's just the terrible kind of buttoned up. person I am. Gosh, I think you're being a little hard on yourself there. No, but I wouldn't. Would you? No, I probably would act in a way broadly, yeah, similar to your... I mean, I always feel sorry with people, you know, people who've popped out, possibly for the very first time with a newborn, they would always have my sympathy. Yes, totally. And babies are different.

And babies are different. And if the baby goes off on one, you know, I'd like to think I'd be the kind of person who'd look at them sympathetically, never. in a judgmental way because look we've all been there and shit. Are we allowed to say swear words in these? I don't know. No, I don't know. I'm not fire. Oh, thank you.

Oh, she's still there. That's good. I've forgotten anyone else was involved in it. It's actually quite cozy in here. I really do think you're going to have to drag us out. It's lovely. Just very, very briefly, back to the dog thing, though. I would tell off somebody else's dog.

Would you? Yes, I'd have absolutely no compunction. These days, that might be even dodgy than telling off their child. And sometimes, you know, I've had altercations with other dog owners where I do not have my British buttoned up sense of repression going on. And I've let rip. I was made to cry by a younger dog walking man who shouted at me in a park once. And after that, I really had to give myself talking to about standing my ground and shouting back. And so sometimes I have done it.

I felt better for it. Right. But that's where the dog gets in an over. and space and my dog is always bigger than their dog Jane. She's a big dog. Yeah. But she wouldn't slap somebody else's gravy in her. No, she wouldn't.

No, she's really, Nancy is very well behaved. She doesn't yap either. She doesn't make a noise. So she's okay. Have you seen the terrible news in The Times today on Message Mandy is back on Mondays? About the times.com, look it up if you've got a subscription. And you should get one. The news that cats don't give a toss who's looking after them.

That's terrible. I'm not going to read that. You're not going to read that. No, I'm not going to read that. It's just that when I've had friends house sitting when I've gone away, they do send me pictures and Dora's just perfectly happy, curled up on that up. She's only known them a minute and a half. That's shocking, isn't it? She doesn't. I think she's typical. She just couldn't give her whatever.

No, I'm sure that's the case. I think, by the way, Barbara's dad is back. Barbara's dad's been absent for a while. Very aggressive cat. Where's, has you been doing a stretch? Father's for justice. He would be. He would definitely be their team leader.

Has he been in one's world? Well, he's come back. There's no way of saying this. He's come back with what? He's come back with three legs. Right. It's not funny. Well, it is quite funny.

Not really not for him. Possibly not for him, no. I mean, no, this isn't the podcast that laughs at three-legged cats. Or is it? Do you know? No, I don't know what happened. And he can't tell you. you, which is really annoying.

I only saw him this morning. I just couldn't quite believe it. Anyway, he looks absolutely fine. He still looks incredibly aggressive. He still came right up to the window and stared. Which is the leg that's missing? Front left. Front left?

Yeah. Right. So he can still move about it. He seems absolutely fine, but it was a bit of a shock. Right. Yes, absolutely. Has Barbara noticed? No, Barbara, no.

Because we just thought it'd gone. Right. Yeah. She might not recognise. him now anyway. Anyway, I'll keep you posted on that. Sorry, that's quite random. I do feel that we need a couple more emails

and then we should probably wrap it up for now. Right, well, I talked last week about how, even I were talking about football and the fact that I do think some people take their kiddies to football too young. Oh my God, we've just turned into such judgmental. I'm hugely judgmental. Good God, we've had kids in restaurants,

dogs in restaurants, telling off other people's kids and now they can't go to football. I mean, my eldest daughter taught me to task yesterday. because she said she'd watch that new show on, is it Apple about the Kennedys? Oh, I haven't seen that. Oh, well, yeah, it's about one of the Kennedy, John F. Kent, the one who died in the plane that he was piloting.

Yes. With his wife or girlfriend. Anyway, and I just said to my wife, no, I'm not, I'm just not interested in the Kennedys. And she said, your hot takes are so ridiculous. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. I thought they were, you know, I just have a view, and I don't like the Kennedys.

Yeah, I would agree with your daughter. What? I find your hot takes. quite strange. Well, yeah. I tell you what, they've served me quite well in terms of... Well, they're very... They're very minus 10 and then plus 10.

I mean, they're hot, hot, aren't they? They're peri, peri takes. They're really, yeah. They're not mild, no. Because I've worked with you now for nine years. You correct to me the other day when I said 10. It just seems longer to me. I have noticed that sometimes they flip.

Oh, yeah, I never claim to be consistent. That's the beauty of having... And by the way, it's just worth saying, and I don't want to make a big thing about it. So next you'll just be Kennedy Love. Maybe it will. I like Nigel Kennedy. I'll be RFK. Brian Kennedy, the Irish crooner.

On your wet t-shirt competition. Yes. What? We have, and I don't want to draw attention to it, but I did say last week that I thought we were on the cusp of something, and then it was the day before. Yes, I know. Okay. I know. But, sorry, Mystic Garv, as one person has already said, maybe we went too soon writing her off.

The thing with Mystic Garv is if you say that often enough, a busted clock is right twice a day. Okay. Yeah. My husband, Cecilia, was born in Dartford. Grew up in Cheshire, went to uni in Sheffield. Following this? Yes.

Somehow supports Wilverhampton Wanderers. Confusing. We lived in London when we had our young children in the 2000s. So we only got the opportunity to see Wolves when they played in London, when they played London-based teams. So he decided to take our five-year-old to live. lay down her allegiances to see the mighty clash of Wolves versus Watford. Well, after the train ride to Watford, the walk to the ground and the wait for the start of the game,

by which time she was already really quite bored, the teams walked out onto the pitch. Wow. She sat up at this point and excitedly said, which one is David Beckham? Gloomily, my husband had to explain that Beckham didn't play at this level of the game, and she didn't know any of the other players. He hadn't prepared her for the full 90 minutes. length of the game plus half time and the trials of a dad trying to take a daughter to the toilet. Suffice to say, her love of football ended right there. Yes, if you go too soon, you kill off the

passion and it's got to be something that you do to exactly the right time. I've got a question. Do you think that, do you think there would ever be a case for shorter football matches? Well, I think the issue now with VAR is they're getting longer and longer. longer, Fiona. Well, yes. Yes, you have to set aside most of Sunday and afternoon these days to take in even one game. And if you're planning a double whammy, then you can forget your ironing. Yes. Unless you do it in front of the telly. Yep. That stop-start things annoying, isn't it? Yeah, I think it is annoying. What would be your ideal length of a football match? Well, I think maybe, I think half an hour each way. Okay, yeah, well, that's actually not a bad shout.

Yeah. I mean, a bit like plays are too long. Plays are too long. Films are too long. Yeah. In fact, a lot. Is this podcast too long? Yeah, quite possibly. Yeah, it quite possibly is. Claire Bins, who's now the CEO of the Picture House group of cinemas, she has really added her weight to that campaign, hasn't she, for... The 90-minor?

For shorter films. So you just get more in and people don't have to dedicate a whole evening. And, you know, I think it's a very good shout. Well, and I think people will be at this point saying... Yeah, take your own medicine and take it quickly. They will fee. Yes. Shall we put them out of their misery?

Let's put them out of their misery. I just want to say that there was a picture that made me laugh this morning. It's from Jackie. So we've got quite a lot of fat cats coming in. And this is Mildred. I'm looking at Mildred now. Yes. No, Mildred.

I'm sorry. Deary me. Mildred has, she's definitely, what should we say about Mildred? I think we could say quite safely that she's let herself go. She has let herself go. And again, the judgmental spears have been hurled everyone. in this podcast, but I don't think that's an unreasonable point to me. Sorry, Melodlove. But I'm loving all of your pictures of very fat cats. Some people have very thoughtfully provided us

with before and after. And there are a couple of cats doing that thing where they just lie with their legs akimbo. And it's never not funny. I don't know why, Jo. I don't know why. But it's, it's just a little bit, I don't know. It's, they're free. They are free. They're free. They're free. to do that. But they will have a slightly suggestive look in their eyes and you just think, oh, good Lord. I just sometimes think on a hot day when I watched Dora doing that, I think, you know, if we could do it, we would. Why not? Well, shall we bring it to a conclusion? Let's. No, you can contact this podcast. Why you'd want to? We still don't really know. But we love hearing from you. We love the varied opinions. We've thrown a few out there today.

Let us know if you agree or disagree. Very welcome to do either. We're Jane and Fee at Times dot radio. And I tell you what we ought to do by the end of the week. We ought to, it's your turn. Choose another topic for the podcast playlist. Oh yes. We need a new short playlist and I think something with the spring in our step. Good one.

No, but you've got to come up with a better title than that. And theme. Coiled spring. Something like that. Yeah. Okay. I do sense that we're on the cusp of change. You see, I've had another.

Right, goodbye. Cusp off. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie. Cutler.