Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I really have lost my sense of direction if I'm on Grindr

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Jane and Fi are trying to keep up with all the latest app trends and have renamed themselves 'Jn Grvy + F Glvr'. Whilst we wait and see if that sticks, we're also talking lady beards, paper bags, and much needed cockerel updates. They're joined by the sailor Tracy Edwards MBE. She was just 26 when she skippered the first all woman crew in the Whitbread Round the World Race 1989. She tells us what her boat Maiden is up to now... If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Megan McElroy Times Radio Producer: Anthony Cheng Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I have noticed, look, I've got spatter on my nice white shirt. So you have got a little greasy blob. Yep. Is it kimchi? No, I don't think it's kimchi, but it's from a very unsuccessful midweek stew that I put on the stove before I left. Oh, you've made it? Or how do you already know it's not very good? No, I made it this morning. Well, you always have a taste test, don't you? Oh, yeah, no, I always taste mine.

Yeah. God, I've made some terrible stews. Well, this one, I made it with kawana, you know, the meat substitute. I'm not familiar with that one. Corn, you know, kawana. Oh, kawana. Yes, kawana. Yes.

Yeah. And it was that mint stuff, but it didn't quite defrost. So I've been stammering at it, but that's a disappointment there because not only is it a rather ineffective stew, but that's ruined my nice white shirt. You probably can do something with it, but I'm not hopeful for you. Well, I tell you what,

that is my Wednesday evening sorted. Okay, great. So much to look forward to. Now, we are talking Wednesday lunchtime, aren't we? I'm just swallowing a jalapeno from the salad bar. Do you think that people can tell that there's been a different energy over the last two episodes?

Yesterday's episode of the podcast was recorded pre-dusk. Yes. And we are. It's broad daylight now. Or what passes for it at the fag end of January. I rather enjoy doing them a little bit earlier, actually, Jane.

Yeah, what you mean is you enjoy getting home earlier. That's what you actually mean. Well, kind of. But actually, I just have more energy. Do you? Yes, I'm absolutely buzzing actually I just have more energy. Do you? Yes, I'm absolutely buzzing. I mean, after we've been through the complete mill of news

between three and five, we are exhausted. There was absolutely no doubt what the biggest story of yesterday was, the missing monkey from the Highland Park. And I think I overheard somebody in the newsroom saying that he's been caught.

Oh, that is a shame. But we'll catch up with it later and find out exactly what's happening because you had high hopes actually that the japanese macaque might be able to befriend some kind of local species and you know in desperation uh they'd have little babies and start a whole new species because you didn't want to imagine the macaque being lonely in the gl No, roaming around, wearing just a kilt. That's all you'd need there, isn't it? Oh, hang on.

Drone sighting of a scape monkey in Highlands raises hopes he is homeward bound. Thank you, Megan. Well, didn't the lovely zoologist you spoke to yesterday... James Mackay. ...say that what would get him home was just he's hungry and he needs some decent scran? Yeah, I was... So, like, very many men, after a couple of days away in a Holiday Inn, decide they might as well go back.

Because, actually, it turns out that the great big wild blue yonder doesn't offer all the comforts of home. Yeah, there's a message for all the fellas out there. Just think about it, OK? Still rambling around your bird feeder. I wanted to know whether they'd have a sense of direction. The lovely Mr Makai said, yeah, we shouldn't have any bother finding home.

I mean, that did surprise me. Oh, come on. Have you... I haven't got a sense of direction, so why would a little monkey have one? What lies at the heart of David Attenborough's stories over the last 70 years? I don't know.

It's migration, isn't it? And heading home. Oh, I see. Everything's migration, isn't it? And heading home. Oh, I see. Everything's about, you know, your patch. Yeah. And finding it again. I do find it funny with the youngsters navigating using, in my experience, ways,

which annoys me in any number of different ways because it's spelt in that quirky way that all little apps have to be spelt so not the right way. Oh, God, that annoys me. And even roots they know perfectly well, they will insist on doing what Waze tells them to do. I don't get it. Just because it shaves off 15 seconds from the journey time,

they'll go down some bloody side alley. I don't get it. I don't get it. It is bad, isn't it? It's that, I mean, what will they do when civilisation crumbles and they'll have to just dig out the old A to Z? But the funny thing is that schools still teach quite a lot of orienteering and stuff, don't they? Well, do they? I think it's really good if they do.

They do. I seriously do think it's great. Maybe it is to just counter that. So we realised after a very disastrous journey back uh to the airport in gozo a couple of summers ago um that's gozo sorry it's off the coast of malta all right and we'd had a very very hot holiday really really hot holiday uh first world problem i know uh and we were driving back to the airport we were a little bit tight for time and the sat nav was just sending us in the most extraordinary places and we were driving back to the airport, we were a little bit tight for time, and the sat-nav was just sending us

in the most extraordinary places, and we turned down these tiny, tiny little lanes, and we thought, okay, well, it's the sat-nav, and we're tight for time, so they know a shortcut. Appears to be going over a donkey path, but we'll be okay. And, of course, we had it set to footsteps rather than car, so we literally were driving down for a park. And did the adult in charge have the good sense to think outside of the sat-nav?

No. So, yeah, goodbye, Gozo. Your name is quite funny in modern speech, Jane. If you do that thing, you know, which ways and grinder and things like that. I really have lost my sense of direction if I'm on Grindr. I've made a leap. I mean, I do like the Pet Shop Boys a lot. I don't even know whether Grindr has dropped its vowels.

A better example. I think it has dropped. It doesn't have an E. Okay, well, that. And the famous case is a b'din, isn't it? A better example? I think it has dropped, it doesn't have an E. Okay, well that. And the famous case is Aberdeen, isn't it? Where the Aberdeen, whatever it was, financial institution. And I've talked before about the Healthbot app I was obliged to

use by my local surgery, which I was wanting, just to renew my HRT, and I had to use something called Patches, only it was spelt P-C-H-E-S. Well, you would be G-Vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv But I'm with you on that. It drives me mad. Oh, the modern world. Now, we've talked about journeying and adventuring-ish so far in our conversation. Good time to say our guest is Tracey Edwards, MBE. I tell you what, you are on fire.

I've had a good run. With the Radio Workshop No. 672, Linking Conversations. Tracey Edwards, MBE. She was only 26 when she did the Whipbread Round the World Yacht Race and she's still in sailing. Actually, she's such an enthusiastic woman and we'll hear from her a little bit later, Fi. Go on.

Well, can I just say, please don't worry about January Book Club. We haven't mentioned the book. It is actually because Jane and I are still waiting to turn the opening page on it, but as soon as we do, you'll hear nothing but news of An Elderly Lady is Up to No Good by Helen Turston. That is book club number four. And if you can't get hold of a copy on the Amazon,

then you can then load it for free on Audible if you've got that facility. And you can get it outside because I think it's run out on Amazon and that may well be our fault but why not try your local bookshop and in fact I managed to source a copy on the Blackwell site as well

so please don't give up if you want to buy it then you might have to go somewhere else but also I think we would say too wouldn't we that you can always join in if you haven't read the book so please don't worry too much Just pretend you're doing english and it's year what would it be

year nine when you're not really paying attention you're sitting at the back it's very hot maybe you buy the radiator deliberately you'd have no idea what's being talked about but you're still there yeah and you can be in the book club in that spirit and there's always you know joanna at the front to answer a very long question and you can just nod wisely. That used to be my policy. Answer a question in the first five minutes, they'll leave you alone. Or just offer to do the reading out loud. Yeah, funnily enough.

Because then the teacher will have heard from you. Bet you were first up for that. Well, far be it from me to... I wouldn't want to put myself forward. No. So can I just say, Tracy Renard in North Dorset, don't worry at all. We are discussing the book probably in about three weeks' time now,

and she is really thankful that it's quite a short book. Yeah. Can we just briefly mention our new personal finance feature, which is on a Monday with the wonderful Adam Shaw? Let's. Just to tell people who only listen to the podcast, and by the way, don't leave it there. Listen to The Times Radio Show live,

Monday to Thursday, three till five. The Times Radio app is completely free, everybody. Won't cost you a penny to listen. And we have Personal Finance with Adam on a Monday. If you have a question, ping it to us either on Instagram or you can email janeandfee at times.radio. Because Fee and I are both incredibly keen to emphasise there are no daft questions.

We don't need to use your name. So many of us get tied up in knots particularly about stuff like pensions and Sharon has emailed to say I did ask a question on Instagram about whether or not I should combine my itty-bitty pensions. It may have been answered last Monday but I want to catch up on the Times Radio app

and last Monday is now gone. And in fact, I know that our colleague Megan has since emailed you, Sharon, with the clip of the feature. So the question was answered, wasn't it? It was. That was the day I wasn't there, but it was definitely answered. Yes, it was. Yeah. So please, in that spirit, keep your questions coming because Adam is brilliant. He knows everything. He works properly hard. And it's just an area that so many of us feel completely perplexed by and there's no need to be embarrassed if there's something you don't understand fair chance we

won't understand it either adam will though jane and fee at times dot radio yeah more than a fair chance yes uh this comes in from sarah who sent us a picture of two cups. Dear Jane and Fee, you were talking about lost art, little things in your house that aren't there anymore and my mum has a collection of moustache cups.

I had never heard of those. No. My dad was in the RAF and had a big fancy moustache. Well done him, sir. These cups were to stop the moustache going into the tea.

This set is my favourite as it was a wedding gift to Jenny and Charles in 1863. That's fantastic. And that's painted on the side. So is it because they're so small that they would just lift

the moustache out? And is that a moustache that's actually kind of daintily painted on to the inside? The inside of the cup. I think it is. But I occasionally catch the end of Antiques Roadshow. And it is only the end. The inside of the cup. I think it is. But I occasionally catch the end of Antiques Roadshow. And it is only the end. How much?

How much? You know, when the person tries really hard to disguise the savage disappointment. I had no idea. Well, we're definitely

not parting with it. Flick through Google. This was my dear, dear great-aunt Lillian's favourite possession. It's worth what? It's going. No, I only catch those last couple of minutes.

But I'd never heard of moustache cups. That is a whole new area. And facial hair and appropriate coppage. Who knew? Who knew? I mean, is there anything for the lady beard? When I did my brows this week, I didn't do them,

I went to a lady who does them. Did you now? And she did ask if I wanted my top lip doing. It's always that moment, isn't it? You think, do I? You don't say anything. No, you don't need it, darling, at all. It was a little slow,

but it got there in the end. I've always thought that there's definitely room in the market for a beautician with tweezers who operates in a dental surgery. So while you're having bits drilled and all of that kind of stuff, you're reclining back under a very strong light, somebody else could just come along and tweeze out all the bits that you don't want as well do your eyebrows i'd be happy oh it would be it sounds on the face of it like it might work but we all know how difficult

it is don't get me started on nhs dentistry i bet if we put that out there as a subject um it's just it's hopeless yes so the the business model is is basically uh unable to function isn't it that's that's what lies at the heart and maybe we need to reach out to our dental surgeon audience to tell us what's going on. So I think it's right. We do need a professional, but the basics of it, surely, is that the money that is provided by the government per patient is no longer enough for a decent dentist with all of its bills

to be able to invite a large number of patients in for a considerable amount of time and, you know, be profitable. Well, I mean, people... What did my sister overhear in a sauna the other day? A couple of young lads talking about... She was in a hot tub reading Anne Tyler last time she was mentioned on the podcast. She does get about.

But she's never too busy to ring me. And sometimes I even get a word in, although not this morning. Anyway, she was talking about these two in their early 20s, and one was telling the other that he just had two fillings, 380 quid. But what I don't understand, and a dentist can answer this, is it the materials that cost a lot of money? Or is it the electricity? It a lot of money um or is it the electricity it will be electricity and and the energy bills generally um obviously you've had years of training i get it

it's a real skill uh but that just seems an incredible amount of money i mean presumably that was nhs as well but that would take a good couple of hours to do i mean that's what i appreciate that's what i want to understand i guess guess. I mean, is it the time? Is it the materials? Is it the years of training? Is it your energy bills? Tell us. I just, I need to know. Yeah.

I mean, it's definitely, it's going to come up at the election that, I think, a lot. Because when you need a personal story, it tends to be health that provides the personal story at election time. And there just is, you know, definitely, there's a generation of people who are trying to do their own dentistry. We know that Steve Wright, DJ, famously liked to do his own dental work. He didn't extend that offer to other showbiz friends, did he?

Well, if he did, they've kept it in a very close cabal because we definitely weren't invited. We never knew. I'd still like to get Steve Wright on the show. We never managed to do that, did we? No, we didn't. We did ask a number of times. We've had some major fails, haven't we, with people over the years. And then when we did get to interview one person, he turned out not to be very nice. We don't hear much about him these days.

Anyway, what have you got there, Fi? hear much about him these days anyway um what have you got there fee in response sorry in response this comes from bridget to your valid curiosity as to why we would have a cockerel but not hens with reference to yesterday's podcast they make the most wonderful pets for children whilst admittedly being a poor man's parrot and hovering woefully close to the bottom of the food chain, they sit happily on any perch, spend their days inspecting the garden and don't mind snuggling up with a child whilst they read a book. Since discovering that...

I can't believe this. Well, no, the cockerel doesn't read a book. The child reads a book. I was going to say, I mean, I've got... People going on about their precocious kids is one thing, but this is ridiculous. I did it with the wrong emphasis. Hang on. And don't mind snuggling up with a child whilst is ridiculous. I did it with the wrong emphasis. Hang on.

And don't mind snuggling up with a child whilst they read a book. Is that better? Got it, yeah. Okay. Since discovering that almost all male chicks are gassed soon after hatching, an unintentional rooster retreat

seems like a happy, albeit proportionally invisible, step in the opposite direction. Well, Bridget, you're just lovely. I think a rooster retreat is the way that we should all go. I had no idea that a rooster would make a good pet. I honestly hadn't given it any thought, but I'm glad I asked that question. Bridget, may your rooster retreat just go on to even greater success. And if you're someone who

could offer a home to a rooster, then contact this podcast and we'll see what we can do. We could run a kind of, well, it wouldn't be a grinder for prospective rooster owners, would it? It would be just a kind of dating service for people interested in that kind of thing. Just looking after roosters. What am I talking about? No-one will ever know. Susie is from B-Dale. She says,

My autistic son was 15 in 2003 and his older brother had recently died. She says, sorry there. I mean, I understand why you put sorry. It's just that you think that you might be bringing us down. It's just a fact, Susie, and we're both sending love to you because that must have been absolutely terrible. And I'm sure it remains terrible for you and the rest of your family. But she goes goes on to say on the way back from school my autistic son said his brother had promised to show him some rude magazines but now it wasn't going to happen so I pulled into the next petrol station and I bought him one from the top shelf he didn't want to discuss the contents um Susie thank you um that's one of those just incredibly poignant

slices of life, isn't it? I was going to say that it's actually a whole life in a paragraph and also what a lovely mum what a lovely, lovely mum Thank you Susie Just on that kind of topic of the horrendous and very tragic loss of a child

we have been talking on the radio show about Fiona Spargo-Mabbs, who is a remarkable woman whose son Daniel died when he was 16. He took drugs at a rave and went into a coma and died. And she does the most remarkable work through what is called the Daniel Spargo-Mabbs Foundation, going into schools and educating kids about the reality of drugs. We've talked to her on the programme before,

and she's a truly, truly lovely woman. And when she was heading off on Friday to go and give one of her talks at a school, she left on a train at Clapham Junction a bag that had a pair of Daniel's trainers in it, and she takes Daniel's trainers into schools you know to just put them on the stage and focus the kid's mind on the life that's been lost so we're trying to help her find those trainers because obviously they're just

hugely important to her so if you've got a moment could you take a look at our Instagram feed where there's a picture of the trainers there's details of the train that she was on and there's the bag that the shoes were in and if you can circulate it just in the hope that it makes you know somebody somebody's memory gets jogged or someone's seen that bag

it's quite a distinctive bag from a school called Forest School they're distinctive trainers too aren't they actually yeah I think the problem is actually that they are their Nike high top. Are they quite valuable? I don't, I'm not sure they're I'm not sure they're valuable. But they're valuable to Fiona, I know that. Yeah, but I don't think they're rare

enough, you know, for people to kind of go oh my goodness. But obviously, you know, Fiona wants them back. So could you do that if you've got a moment? Lovely listeners and it would just be amazing if somewhere Fiona wants them back so could you do that if you've got a moment lovely listeners and it would just be amazing if

somewhere somebody goes oh yeah you know that bag accidentally came into our house and obviously no questions asked at all as to how somebody came by them you know just either get in touch with us or look for the

Daniel Spargo Mabbs, just either get in touch with us or look for the Daniel Spargo Mabbs Foundation website and get in touch with Fiona that way. Yeah, because I think anybody can understand, I was going to say any parent, but actually I mean anybody could understand just how much those shoes mean to her and how important they are. So you never know. As long as we spread the word, we're trying

and it might just reach the right person. Yeah, you never know. as long as we spread the word we're trying and it might just reach the right person yeah you you never know there's no point in not trying no that's for sure no point uh shall we say hello to i'm going to get this wrong zosia but it's pronounced like pusher with a z so zhusha zhusha zhusha i think you've had a valiant attempt there. Take your pick. A up, Jane and Fi. I was happily listening to your podcast this evening while cooking dinner.

Imagine my surprise at hearing you introduce an email from my lovely mum. For there is surely only one Nella in Todmorden and she certainly does not take any shit. It brightened up my evening no end. Here you giggle at mum's story. I did first check that mum was in fact referring to my dad as she does have a small collection of ex-husbands. I love this. Yeah. Though the current one, very lovely and equally hilarious, has now hit the 25 year mark. So it seems likely the collection is now

complete. Though I hadn't heard it before, the story about my dad sounds exactly like him. My sister and I could tell you many stories about his unique sense of humour. But a family favourite is when he was in a bank with his then partner, now civil partner,

sorry, Jane. Do keep up. Opening a joint account. At the time, she was still technically married to her ex-husband. As they were filling out the forms with the bank employee,

a question into their marital status prompted my stepmother to say, oh, i'm actually legally married to someone else to which my father loudly and dramatically exclaimed to the entire bank what you never told me that much to the horror of the bank employee and eye-rolling amusement of my stepmom their other favorite comedy set involves announcing a surprise pregnancy. They're both turning 70 this year. This is so lovely. My siblings and I are lucky to have four parents who are all witty and hilarious in their own way

and I'm extremely grateful that both my mum, Nella, and dad, husband number two of three, have each gone on to marry or partner siblings. We don't know dad's name, do we? It's a real shame because he's Britain's funniest man. Two wonderful and kind people who love them for their respective quirks. A special shout-out to all of them for coming all the way from West Yorkshire do we it's a real shame because he's britain's funniest man two wonderful and kind people who love them for their respective quirks a special shout out to all of them for coming all the way

from west yorkshire to london on an extremely convoluted rotor with my in-laws to look after our two young children one day per week uh love from this yorkshire transplant to london so i'm to London. So I'm just going to call you Zed if that's all right. Absolutely. What a fantastic tribute to marrying again, getting on with it, getting on with everybody, just embracing, you know, what life throws at you and then what it can bring you. I think that's just fantastic. Can we just acknowledge she's got options for childcare there. Yes, no, it's fantastic. So she's got... Not child care there yes no it's fantastic so she's got not to be sniffed at she's got four maybe four sets at least three sets yeah of willing participants yeah well they're very willing if they're if they're traveling all the way from west yorkshire to london we don't know how willing they're actually feeling do we just for one day a week

okay meg apparently we haven't got long right um if you're one of the people who doesn't want to look after these kids at all do let us know jane and fee at times dot radio actually i'm quite interested in hearing from grandparents who do child care about i mean we'll keep you anonymous just about whether you really want to do it or whether you just feel that you have to i just do you think it's potentially an area of interest because i think my parents and in-laws at the time lived a bit too far away to be practically on hand really although you know in an emergency they would help out but it's a big ask isn't it well mine mine couldn't dad was dead and mum was living up in scotland she moved as far as far away as possible. Sometimes I really do think the milk of human kindness

is in semi-skimmed form in this partnership. I do think that I'm sure she'd have been willing if she was closer but it's a fact of modern life in Britain that often the grandparents are not on hand, are they? And they do have to make these superhuman efforts to get involved.

But you're right, it would be interesting to hear the difference because people often speak about the magic of grandchildren, don't they? And if you found some of the days were incredibly long and a bit difficult when your own kiddies were young, what is it that changes, that makes it? Is it because you know that it's not forever? So actually, I take it back, see, how ridiculous

they're only coming down for one day stop with them I think Fee's onto something there because we've looked after small children and it is boring and it is tiring so why are you better able to do it 35 years or 30 years or 25 years

whatever it is down the line why is it easier then why let us know. Lots of people with thinking perky thoughts at the greengrocers. I've just got back from the greengrocers. I can't tell you how tempted I was to twirl my carrots in their brown paper bag, says this contributor who wants to stay anonymous for her own personal safety. Fair enough. Marie says, listening to the fruit in a paper bag story reminded me of the things i used to hear on fruit and veg market stalls thinking in particular of a stall in chapel

market now is that um where's chapel market i feel as though oh chapel markets in islington so it is in london yeah yeah okay a costa monger used to shout out little balls of sugar when he was talking about little balls of sugar he used to yeah but what was he talking about uh what were we uh i don't know sherbet bonbons no grapes grapes yeah uh buying greenish underripe bananas from a shop in the cut the bloke after spinning the paper bag would say take a slow walk home and they'll be ripe nice that's good isn't it and if you bought big spuds you'd say they've come out of a big field in norfolk i think it's odd that one but i sort of knew where he was coming from don't you

think a bit of banter while you buy your brassicas makes all the difference yes marie do you think i think it does yep i think it probably does and uh here's to anne who says your discussion about paper bags for fruit and veg took me back to when i was 13 in 1974 working in Blenheim fruiterers in Hoy Lake on the Wirral where we used paper bags to weigh out the fruit and veg and that incredibly satisfying feeling of twizzling the bag over several times and closing everything and making it stay in place also learned how to add up and do multiplication very quickly as we didn't have calculators. And another skill of cleaning the shop window with newspaper. Always the best shine.

The owner proudly commented that I came out of my shell working there and honestly, I agree. I think dealing with customers helped me blossom. I think that's probably really good. If you do work in a shop or on a stall, you've just got no choice, have you? I know, and where will you get the chance now when all, you know, the closest you can get to serving customers is just coming round and tapping in the security code

when you can't get anything through the self-checkout. Do you know, you're absolutely right again. I was only thinking about that this morning because I quite deliberately, I'm prepared to queue to be served by a human. I'm not looking at Megan now because I know we've run over. I know we've run over. I'm only looking at you.

That should be how it is anyway. I will queue to be served by a human rather than using the self-checkout. Yeah, but quite often, especially in our local Sainsbury's, I'm going to name and shame you, there are now no longer any proper tills. There are only self-checkouts. It's a big supermarket serving a huge variety of people, many of them infirm, many of them don't have English as a first language. It just drives

me absolutely mad. It's really wrong and I don't want to enjoy the Sainsbury's facilities anymore, Jane. Well, the good news for me is that the local Sainsbury's bakery air conditioning has now been mended and the bagels are back. You're back on your bagels. Right, quickly. Tracy Edwards MBE is a sailor, of course. She was just 26 when she skippered now been mended and the bagels are back you're back on your bagels right quickly uh tracy edwards mbe is a sailor of course she was just 26 when she skippered the first all-woman crew in the whipbread round the world race in 1989 i couldn't believe it was so long ago at the time many

dismissed the notion one critic called the maiden fee a tin full of tarts the yacht is now the subject of a much praised documentaryised documentary also called Maiden and you can see it on Apple TV and Google Play. I talked to Tracey Edwards last week and asked her where her old friend the Maiden is right now and what she's up to. So on Sunday at two o'clock New Zealand time she crossed the start line of the third leg of the Ocean Globe race. So she's currently just left the coast of New Zealand and she's heading down into the Southern Ocean before rounding Cape Horn and arriving in Uruguay

after a 6,000 mile leg. So she's basically in the Ocean Globe race, which is her final race around the world, a bit sadly, but the old girl's got to retire sometime. So we're basically using this race to promote girls' education, especially around STEM subjects. Who's on board? So we've got 10 women on board this time. We've tried to make this crew, we kind of thought, thought okay so 35 years ago we were the first women to sail around the world what needs to be done next and so when whoopi goldberg became our patron um she she very frankly because she's a scary woman um a totally adorable but she looked

at me and she went why why is sailing so white? And I thought, oh, my goodness, sailing is actually really white. Well, it's a good point, yeah. I said, I've never noticed. I've been trying to get girls into sailing. They all look like me. And she said, ah, now you know. So now you've got to do something about it. So we've spent the last two years searching the globe for women sailors

from all over the world. So we now have the first three black women to ever sail around the world, race around the world as a professional yacht racing crew, which is very exciting. We have a refugee from Afghanistan who escaped the Taliban two years ago. She is the voice for the millions of girls obviously currently denied an education in Afghanistan, amongst the many awful things that are happening to women and girls there. And we have eight other nationalities, well, we have eight nationalities on the boat.

So it's a really wonderful mix. We're really doing something very different. And do you know much about the dynamic on board, how things are going? Do you know, no one has asked me that question. And it's an interesting question. Because you don't just throw 10 people from all different parts of the world together from different cultures and religions. And I mean, we have six religions on the boat. But of course, we're not men. So we're managing not to kill each other over, you know, over those subjects. managing not to kill each other over um you know over those subjects um and it but it takes some getting used to and i think that you know a couple of um you know girls on the boat who maybe have had a sort of a not i wouldn't say an easy no one no woman has an easy trip through any sport

um even today but you know have kind of gone into sailing through the yacht club and the dinghy club and and talking to a couple of them after one of the the first legs that they did and their their understanding of what Najiba has been through it was was phenomenal I mean I mean I I sorry Najiba is the young woman from Afghanistan. Najiba is from Afghanistan. Yes. And, um, I mean, I know loads about this subject much more than they do. And, and I'm shocked listening to, to what she's been through. I think that was a really interesting wake up call for them,

but I think it's, you know, it's good because they know they're racing around the world for girls education and the world tour and the fundraising and all the donations we make all over the world and all the girls educational charities we work with. But this has really brought it home to them, you know, and we have not just different religions, different cultures. And it's interesting for them to learn that, you know, the whole sort of going to the stopover and going to the bars and drinking and having fun isn't for everyone, you know. So it's been a huge learning curve. But they are an awesome team. They've bonded together.

You see them together at the stopovers and everyone says to me, oh, my goodness, your crew is so lovely. They're so happy. They're so helpful. They're so helpful. They're so polite. They're so, they look after each other and, you know, but that's how it should be. But it takes some time and some work. Yeah, I can imagine. I can only imagine. It's quite clear from just listening to you so far that your interest is, well, is it maternal exactly? Do you have those sorts of feelings about the crew? And also your relationship with Maiden.

This is a, it's a passionate one, isn't it? Jane, your questions are, you should get the prize for questions I've never been asked before. They are rare and few and far between, I can tell you. I do feel like I've got, you know, the first time one of the emergency EPIRBs went off, they triggered it in the Southern Ocean. Sorry, an emergency what? So they have an emergency positioning beacon, which if it goes into water, it alerts all the Coast Guards and who then call me, usually at one o'clock in the morning. They like to go off at one o'clock in the morning. usually at one o'clock in the morning they like to go off at one o'clock in the morning and you know the first time that happened what had happened was the perp had been swept out the

weather was so awful that the perp had been swept over the side and sent out this distress signal I knew immediately because I'd already had an emergency call that they were fine but there's that momentary and that's when I realized that the feeling is exactly the same as when my daughter, she doesn't do this anymore. But in her teenage years, you know, when she'd say, send me a message. I'm leaving the club now at one o'clock in the morning. Then it's three o'clock. I hadn't heard from her. Me trying to explain to her, you will never understand until you have your own daughter.

You know what I am going through in those two hours. So I do now feel as if I have 10 daughters. They've all left the club at one o'clock and I haven't heard from them until three o'clock. So that's kind of what it feels like. And of course, I do feel very protective over them, although I have to say I feel happier when they're at sea. I know where they are. I know what they're doing. I know they can't get into too much trouble. happier when they're at sea. I know where they are. I know what they're doing. I know they can't get into too much trouble. So here you are, this figure, a responsible figure, a woman who is looked up to by many, many others. But back in your own teenage years, you were the sort of

daughter that your mum will have been concerned about, weren't you? Yeah, I was. I was a horrible, horrible teenager. I won't go into the reasons why because they're long and complicated. But yes, I was out drinking and smoking and escaping from my bedroom at two o'clock in the morning when I'd been locked in quite rightly by my um by my mother and my stepfather and you know I stole a car I was arrested when she arrived at the police station I was handcuffed to the radiator that must have been lovely yeah that would have been that would have been a low point for your mum won't it yeah that was a pretty low point for my mum um that was at the point and then I got expelled from school

and then she went into school to ask if I could take my O-levels special permission she got the special permission and then I didn't um I didn't go so I let her down in every possible way imaginable and and I was extremely troubled angry courage and her understanding, I think, of what was going on that she said, go travelling, you know, go backpacking to Greece, you know, and how brave. At the age of 16, I would never let my daughter do that. Well, no, I mean, you were both brave, you and your mum. That is incredible.

Well, I didn't know what, I mean, I just went. You know, I had no concept but um I mean I think the world is was probably a safer place then I have to say um but yeah that got me away from what I was in the middle of and that was the beginning of of my new life and that's that links in so much to what we do with Maiden now, giving girls the opportunity. You know, we've had 102 girls through the Maiden programme actually sailing on the boat. You know, we've funded hundreds of charities all over the world. And this is all about giving people a second chance, especially women and girls. It's also, I don't sail, but I remember being completely absorbed, weirdly, by the Swallows and Amazons books as a kid. By the way, I was no trouble as a teenager, Tracey.

I genuinely wasn't. I was too busy reading. I was such a prat. I look back on that now and I'm quite sad. But the freedom of being out on the water, and you express it so brilliantly, that the world begins on the sea as far as you're concerned it's not the end of the land it's the beginning of a whole new adventure. It is and I remember the moment that I thought that because I grew up in Wales and a beautiful place Rossilly Beach longest beach I think it is in Wales and I would often go down to the water often in storms I like

storms very strange person and you know stand looking at the water, often in storms. I like storms, very strange person. And, you know, stand looking at the water and it always felt like, you know, that was the end. That was the end of the land. It was only when I went sailing that I thought, oh no, it's not the end of the land. It's the beginning of the rest of the world. And that totally blew my mind for a start. You know, here I was in a boat on water that was connected to everywhere.

And I was so lucky to have found that. But the fact that on the whole, sailing is not just white, it is immensely privileged financially and largely male. So how did you get even a tiny toehold in this environment? Well, you know, rich people need people like us to run their boats. So, you know, I started out as a stewardess, which is the lowliest form of life, as we know it, on a boat, possibly the ship's cat is lower. And then, you know, you move up through the ranks and I learned to navigate. Navigation became my absolute passion. I grew up hating maths, but somehow navigation was my thing. It's still my passion. And, you know, and then learning to love the sea and discovering that the people that sail on boats are my people. These are the people I'd spent my life looking for, my tribe. people I'd spent my life looking for, my tribe. And so all of that. And then once you, you know,

so once I'd got that passion, and then I realized, whoa, wait a minute. So all of us girls are cooking and cleaning. And obviously, I was doing my navigation, but I did the 8586 Whitbread Around the World race as a cook. I mean, that was one of four girls in 260 you know people that did the race that that year and I realized as we did the final leg I had a really profound thought I thought no man will ever let me navigate on a racing boat probably in my lifetime and that was like whoa what that's oh that's got to change so then I you know, so the secret feminism in me came out and then it all, you know, sort of, I had to start fighting. Well, people hopefully have seen the documentary Maiden, which is still out there and available. I had forgotten if I'd ever known that you were bankrolled by the King of Jordan. I mean, how and why did that happen? And why didn't you get

financial backing, maybe from the British royal family or from some other wealthy people in this country? Oh, such another good question. So I was a stewardess on a yacht in Newport, Rhode Island, and he was there for his son's graduation. His son is now King Abdullah. And I was 21 years old, for his son's graduation. His son is now King Abdullah. And I was 21 years old and I didn't know who he was. And so he arrived on the boat with Queen Noor and her sister and Prince Hassan. And we all went out sailing.

And so I just spoke to him, I mean, with politeness and deference, obviously, as I would any charter guest, but as a normal person. And I think he quite liked that. And I found myself when I was doing the washing up, he picked up a tea towel and he started drying up. And I sort of looked at him, I said, I knew who he was then. I said, I don't think you can do that. He said, I can do anything I like. I'm king. I went, okay. And we just struck up this amazing friendship. We're both passionate.

He's dead now, sadly sadly but we were both passionate about comms and navigation he was ham radio operator I love all that you know sort of side of sailing we both like taking things apart and putting them back together again I really need to get out more um and so we we had all these things in common. So we stayed in touch. And after I finished, I went out to Jordan and I stayed at the palace with him and his family. Met Princess Haya, who was 12 years old, who would figure larger my life later on with rescuing Maiden. So when I got to the point where we'd raised enough money to buy the boat, I'd mortgaged my house. We'd, you know, we'd crawled within sight of the start line.

And no company in the UK would give us money. That's crazy. Oh, you know, they thought we were going to die. I mean, this was a time where, I mean, look at the headlines. Back to the kitchen sink, girls, you failed. Maiden is just a tin full of tarts. And this isn't in small little publications this is on the broadsheets um you know headlines so you know

not surprisingly no one wanted to stick their neck out but he said well i don't understand that because jordan has always been visionary as far as women's rights are concerned they go to school they go to university they're in our government they drive um you know so jordan was way ahead of its time and and still is you know women's rights and um that that vision of peace around the world and he was such a he we could really do with him right now if i'm honest i was going to say that it would be a good time for someone like that to be around but i i I mean, can you just answer the question, is there anything about that race or anything about that sort of really tough sailing that does require the kind of brute strength that men are more likely to have?

No. I mean, it's okay. So men and women are different, obviously. We are not as strong as them. We don't have the same bone density. We don't have the same bone density. We don't have the same body mass. We don't have that explosive brute, as you say, that brute force. We don't have that. So so dinghy racing, for instance, you got to have men's classes and women's classes because of the weight alone. classes and women's classes because of the weight alone um and that explosive uh strength that women just we can't even learn to have it we can't even train to have it it's innate um but an america's

cup women can't race against men in the america's cup why can't they sorry i don't god you need so much strength and power and um i mean it would just and we could have our own class i don't think we're allowed to in the america's cup because it's the big boys and the big money. But anyway, we'll put that aside. I don't see it as sailing anyway. I'm going to get myself into so much trouble. Just carry on. But long distance ocean racing is a level playing field because there are things that you can do to mitigate not having that overwhelming strength.

So this is a marathon, it's not a sprint. That is the incredibly impressive Tracy Edwards MBE. And we checked up today and the maiden is doing well in the Ocean Globe race. She's close to the top of the leaderboard and currently get this fee en route to Cape Horn on the southernmost tip of mainland South America. Well, that's a tricky, tricky journey. I say that as if I've sailed it myself, but I've not.

Have you sailed anywhere? Yeah, I've done a bit of sailing, but I'm not very good at it. I haven't done any long journeys. I think you need strength. You need courage, actually, is what you need. And can I just say that Maiden, the documentary, is one of my top ten documentaries of all time.

It's a superb story but also the way that it's filmed, it doesn't spare the blushes of the female crew because it becomes difficult on board. It's a really brilliant watch, absolutely recommend. And frustratingly it was on Netflix and it's not on it

anymore. Yeah. But it's on Apple Play. You can still get it. I think you have to pay for it, but you can still get it. Okay, well, you're good for it, love. All right. Yes. But who knows what lies ahead, Fiona? Right. Okay, shall we say goodbye and look at Megan? Look at Megan. And tomorrow, Fi, where

are we? Tomorrow, we're at the Destinations. Thing-me-jiggy-what's-it. Travel show. That's the official title. It's on all the posters like that. And that is at Olympia in London's fashionable West, West, West End. And if you're going to Destinations, then come along and say hello.

Mine is oatflat white. Jane likes a cup of tea. And we'll provide the biscuits. I don't know about that. Gosh, she's tight. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio.

It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on off air very soon they'd be so silly running a bank i know lady listener sorry