Off Air... with Jane and Fi - 'I was listening to Ronan Keating at least once a day' (with Dame Esther Rantzen)

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

The Archers is still being discussed, to no one's surprise... But, they also manage to cover their journalistic capabilities, Nigel Farage on Strictly and Jane's pepper mill. Plus, friend of the show Dame Esther Rantzen joins them to reflect on her career, discuss her health and share her hopes for the future. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you envious of our colleagues who are at the Conservative Party conference in Manchester? Yes. Was that convincing? No. Well, I suppose, in all fairness, I haven't ever been to any party political conference. I wouldn't want to go to Labour and I don't want to go to a Conservative. Is that balanced enough? What, so you're going to go to the Lib Dems? No, I'm not. I don't really want to.

But the problem with being a journalist, and loosely speaking, we both are... Well, speak for yourself. I can bring my certificate in tomorrow. OK, you see, I don't have any qualifications in journalism, but you do, don't you? I don't know, actually. I mean, I've done the BBC's course, but I actually don't think we did get a certificate at the end of it. Well, you've done a proper training course. I believe so. Yeah. And I didn't. Don't poke.

No, I'm not going to ask you to bring your certificate in. It's too late in the day in terms of our professional partnership for me to start questioning your credentials. But I could never, whilst I'm really interested in politics, I could never envisage a situation in which I could join any political party ever. Is that OK? No, because I truly believe there are decent people in all British political parties, with the obvious exception of, you know, the loony far right or whatever.

I truly do believe that. But I could never sign up to a set of beliefs because I change my mind so often. So I just couldn't do it. But are you not interested to see the people who do? Because I'm not a veteran of party conferences at all but the but the the two that i've been to that the the absolutely memorable thing that will stay with me forever is that feeling in the hall of people being wrapped by whoever it is on the stage and being part of this kind of really uh fertile, you know, that then goes off.

Well, actually, not in the back rows, they're all mostly asleep. But that idea that you are all vaguely facing the same way and then you're terribly interested in the bit that's gone off here and gone off there and what have you. And then there are loads of people who are just trying to get away from their partners and wives and just get drunk for a couple of days. So I get that. I mean, you can get that as a really good gig, can't you?

Very much so. You don't need to go to a party conference. You don't need to overnight in a travel lodge for that, Jane. You really don't. And we've both enjoyed the footage of Priti Patel. I was told she was dancing with Nigel Farage. In fairness, they were dancing alongside each other. Completely different thing.

Yep. They were dancing alongside each other. Completely different thing. Yeah. And Nigel Farage is definitely, he's done those moves before, hasn't he? Because he's very confident in his moves. Yes, I mean. And actually, Priti looks a bit less so. Will Strictly come calling?

Oh, my gosh. Tell you what, if I were one of their booking producers, certainly be... I wonder if they've asked him. So they have done politicians, haven't they? That's what I mean. Jackie Smith was on. Yes, and Ed Balls.

And arguably, Nigel Farage has had more impact, whether you like him or not, and whether you like his opinions or not, has had more impact on Britain and its political scene than just about anybody else you could care to mention in the last decade or so. Do you think he'd have to pause halfway through and have a fag? Yes, he'd have to have a gasp. He's one of the most notorious still smokers of his generation.

Oh, well, he's all woke, isn't he? You see, he's not woke. So he likes to have a puff on his fags. Yeah. Anyway, look, we're here, everybody. He won't be told. He won't be curtailed. We're not going to conferences.

We are here all this week, all next week, and we're quite glad that we are. Dear Jane and Fee, I'm a fan, borderline girl crush, so thank you, massively appreciated. Whoops, I read out the nice bit at the beginning there, Jane. Never do that. I love the French graveyard herbal tea book, hence I don't automatically assume my tastes would align to Jane.

I share a birth sign and a Chinese sign with Fi. However, I adore the archers. Happiness personified for me is a walk with my dog and an omnibus catch-up. A book that keeps coming up in recent storylines is Lark Rise to Candleford. It seems to be associated in a storyline with young women reading and going back to education and or a deeper appreciation of country life forward slash ecological concerns. All good, but being truly honest,

I'm not sure I have an interest in reading this. Have either of you read it? I haven't. No, I read it at school and I remember it to be absolutely full of nature and so dull I can't remember anybody in it. Sorry. It's by flora thompson isn't it yes and wasn't it adapted for it was on tv i think uh was it judy i think judy dench was in it and dawn french was in it in a bonnet yeah and it is all bonnetty or is that

something else altogether bucolic idols and stuff like that isn't it um bucolic idols i don't do those but why is it in The Archers? Because it is... Because some... Even I know that. You are defiantly uninterested in The Archers and yet they crop up on off-air quite frequently and I do love them.

And like our correspondent, there's nothing I enjoy more than a bumper bundle omnibus edition. But some of the characters in The Archers, in a slightly disappearing up their own Ambridge fundament, have done a version of Lark Rise to Candleford, which actually became available in my podcast feed today. And I won't listen to it because I'm not interested in mashups

and I don't like these tangential things. I like The Archers to stay in Ambridge doing their thing. I won't even listen to Jill Archer's Here I Am Making Mince Pies podcast which she did a couple of years ago because I just want them to stay on message and in the show. Okay, so it's like they're doing a collab, so it's like when Coldplay do something

with Ed Sheeran. Yeah, it's just a bit, it's a bit meta weirdly and I don't like it. I'm just very uneasy. Can I just say that that is going to make me even less likely, Sarah, to ever listen to The Archers, because the idea that it's done a mash-up with a book that was so boring at school

that I can't remember any of the characters in it is not calling to me. Sorry about that. The content people really need is my pepper mill. Actually, it just reminds me, you know when you used to go to an Italian restaurant? Oh, with the enormous, great big pepper mill. I'm not going to name it because it's still going, actually.

We had an Italian restaurant near us in Liverpool. It's so funny. They bring it over. It's just like, am I being filmed by Ant and Dec? It's the size of a small child. A six-foot-long pepper mill would be brandished by someone who knew full well what they were doing. And it was all just a little bit OTT.

And that's why I would never put Italy in my top three European countries. Quite like the food. They're minxes. They're minxes, absolute minxes. Or they were. I wonder whether in this new woke society fee, that's not allowed anymore. What do you think? What, you can't have a grande pepper mill?

Rishi Sunak will reassure us tomorrow that there's going to be no ban on those big pepper mills. Oh, if anyone's got one at home, can you photograph it? You know, just put something really, really tiny beside it for comparison, please. So we've got an idea. Anyway, this is from Vicky, our regular correspondent in France. You were asking a question yesterday. Peugeot, who made my pepper mill, is it the same Peugeot?

And it is. Peugeot started as a family-run flour mill who diversified. Into cars. I mean, this is just amazing. In 1840, they made their first coffee mill. In 1850, they diversified with crinolines, making at one point, says Vicky, 24,000 a month. A fashion that came over from England before later experimenting with cars, bikes, sewing machines, and of course, pepper mills. I'm sorry, I'm really struggling to work out the crinolines in that. I mean, the other ones have got kind of essential moving parts,

but why the crinoline? Well, obviously, it's just a way to make money. Vicky has a theory about my mill. At the grinder, I won't be able to mill the peppercorns evenly because white, pink, black or other colours have a different hardness. I think we might be losing the audience here, Vicky. I'm interested, so I'm going to take that home and I'll study it in my own time. Have you been putting racially diverse peppercorns into your pepper grinder?

There's another thing about woke Britain, isn't it? You used to be able to just get one colour and now they're all... Oh oh God, it drives me mad. I still think you need to take it into a garage and then I think you need to ask the receptionist how many people have ever come into the Peugeot garage with their pepper grinder. Jo in Salisbury has got a very, very entertaining tale, which I think you had heard before, but I never had. Oh, I love this. It's about bounty bars and Jo has gone in search of a fabulous story that appeared on Pop Bitch,

which is a kind of blog of various gossipy bits and pieces from the world of gossip. Yeah, scurrilous showbiz and sometimes politics news. I do subscribe to Pop Bitch. It appears every Friday evening. And sometimes it's right on track and you actually learn something usually about 24 hours before it's generally known.

Yeah, it's one of those journalist sites that you should then never ever repeat on air what you've read on the Pop Bitch until it's been published by at least two other people. I featured in it. Doing what? I was in Pop Bitch because it said on its stream I was going through a difficult, challenging phase in my life

and I was listening to Life is a Rollercoaster by Ronan Keating once a day. And they included it. And that was it. That made Popitch. Okay. So Jo in Salisbury has found something else on the site. Yes.

And writes, I went to a school in Windsor Great Park that often had royal visits on very special occasions, 100th anniversary of the school, that kind of thing. There was also a special day at Ascot Racecourse where just before Christmas, the Queen would stand in a sleigh and hand out chocolates for the children from a big sack. And that's why we loved her. My sister got to the front and asked her majesty for a specific chocolate but every time the Queen found one she had exclaimed that

it was broken put it back and look for another this continued for ages while my sister stood paralyzed with nerves too scared to explain to the Queen of England that a bounty is actually two small bars in one wrapper yeah thanks for keeping me entertained i love that story i still can't find any dark chocolate bounty bars for you so uh you're just going to have to give up on that one i am a bit sorry about that because they are a particular delicacy base well i wonder whether they've done that very canny thing where they've announced that they're not going to make them anymore so everybody rushes around looking for them. And then suddenly they make a huge batch due to popular demand. Let's see, shall we?

No flies on us, are we? No, no, very much not. We're wise to all their wicked ways. I really want to read some of this email. Can't read all of it, but the sender will understand why. And I just think it comes from a very interesting place, and it's somebody who wants to talk about breast cancer. This is Breast Cancer Awareness Month,

and our correspondent says, I need people to know what it's like having cancer when you're younger, and then also a little bit about life after cancer. It is not as advertised. The really hard stuff isn't about what you see on television or on adverts covered in pink bows. Yes, every single hair on my body did fall out. I felt grim during chemo. Abrupt medical menopause was, well, let's just say intense. And the pandemic was a nightmare

for people who were having cancer treatment and shielding with a small child. But after the hair grows back and the scars heal, then you get the hardest part. You stop to look at what you've been through or what is there left of me after I dissolved. I've taken stock of the life I had and of the life I wanted to build. And then the biggest question is, what is to come? I feel angry, says our listener,

about the things I have lost, like the chance to have a second child or the ability to work full time and catapult myself up the career ladder or even just read a book. Because I feel bone crushingly tired all the time. I have to rest most afternoons. Fortuitously for me, there is some OK entertainment between three and five between Mondays and Thursdays these days. But most of all, I just feel terrified all the time that the cancer will come back. And she just goes on to say that a lot has happened

and her illness has had a particular impact on her son, who has just had a really tough time and has also exhibited some challenging behaviours. And she also acknowledges that her husband has been absolutely brilliant, but he's had a wildly difficult time, she says. I was diagnosed four months after our wedding day. So we couldn't have a honeymoon, an uncomplicated sex life, adventures and excitement of reclaiming life after the baby years are over. Instead, my handsome husband became a carer, which he wasn't well prepared for.

He was scared and stressed, but didn't have many people to talk to. Our relationship is strong. In fact, it's beautiful, but it's been truly tested. I am grateful to him for always, always staying by my side. He reminds me how to breathe when I feel like I don't know how. We do have each other and we have our son and a few very good friends who've held us through it all but together this is really, really tough.

It would just be nice to go to the cinema together occasionally. She's also suffering from awful anxiety. So I can't fully empathise because I haven't been through this experience. I do know people who have. And I'm really glad that you've just told us about the really difficult stuff that sometimes doesn't get acknowledged. We sometimes do view breast cancer weirdly through this pink ribbon prism, which is one way of looking at it and which is very effective and which I think raises awareness and money, both of which are hugely important. But this tough stuff does need to be talked about, doesn't it? Yeah. And you know what, Jane, I really feel for people who aren't having the kind of redemptive experience that can be amplified. And I'm not wishing to upset anybody who has had particularly breast cancer and decided to share their story with the world.

There is a happy ending for you if you are able to share your story with the world. And I think everybody by this stage of life knows someone who has not had the happy cancer ending. They have died. ending they have died so I really feel with our correspondent on being able to acknowledge more the dark side of cancer and it just must be very difficult when you see around you a kind of it's never a celebration I'm not saying that but it is the story that you can come through it that you change change your life, that you are empowered by still being alive. And of course, all of those things may be true for you. But there are people who have to stay locked in a very miserable place because they simply feel unwell.

I mean, the medication that you have to take in order to stay cancer free, a lot of people's experience of that is that they feel about 85 years old forever. So if you're running around after a young child as well, when your fatigue and your sickness level is still so high, I really feel, I really, really feel for you. I don't think that that story can be told often enough, actually. And it's almost reassuring to hear it, Jane, don't you think? Well, I'm really glad that she felt able to unburden herself a little bit and just get it out of her system. You are, by the way, I'm not going to mention your name, but you're a brilliant writer.

I mean, you write just brilliantly about your experience. She says, I feel like choking sometimes when the fear comes. It takes over my brain on the anniversaries of the diagnosis. Sometimes when I'm trying to meditate, just when I'm watching trash television and a lazy cancer plot line randomly kills off mum. Or it can happen in a work meeting during Breast Cancer Awareness Month and the person opposite me is wearing glittery pink eyeshadow. And when I walked into the office where I used to be a hotshot before becoming a has-been. That's how she describes

herself. I'm sure you're not, by the way. Well, you're not. I mean, let's let's say that. Yeah. But but when you're feeling completely different to how you felt before and, you know, you haven't you know, you haven't had that experience where something else has rallied inside you or you've been lucky enough not to have been so terribly affected by the operation and the scars and stuff uh so thank you as jane says uh it's really it's good to hear that unburdening and we're always here for all of those stories that don't have you know a nice kind of bow around them that is very much what we're here for isn't it totally totally it really is actually should we bring in esther at this point well can i just say something about vaginas and penises?

Yes. Because Andrew has written a very thoughtful, quite short email. I'm an 81-year-old male listener, and that's fantastic, actually, Andrew, because when we first started this whole shebang, I don't think that was the demographic that we thought we'd manage to catch. No, but we're delighted to have you, Andrew, and as we often say, we're delighted to have anybody. Let's face it, some of the gibberish I come up with, pepper mills.

We're delighted to have anybody. Carry on. Do you have to put a battery in your pepper mill? No. Is it rechargeable? No. Carry on. Oh, OK. I'm an 81-year-old male listener who totally understands the awkwardness of saying vagina and penis out loud, as mentioned today.

Learning Latin at the age of 14 or 15 the v word appeared in a section i was translating orally in a full classroom although i and no doubt others had seen it coming we had time to translate beforehand quite logically it means sheath i love that word sheath however it did not take away the embarrassment we all felt. As to the male bit, the kindest I know, so you were asking for proper other names for todgers, is when going to the loo, it was often referred to as going to

shake hands with a friend. You could use the Latin columna, but that's a bit pretentious, and I think actually a bit of... Can I say, I do think it is a bit pretentious, Andrew. I do, yes. Would you like to look at my...

Boris Johnson probably uses that. Columbo. Which is enough to put anybody off. Anyway, we thank you both in either order. I've followed you for years and your order in my head is the original Fee and Jane, but it doesn't really matter and it really doesn't matter at all, actually.

And thank you very much indeed for that, Andrew. Now, other people, don't be coy because I thought actually that our email inbox would be full of people telling us what they call their todgers in their households, but it's only Andrew. Only Andrew's risen to the challenge. You want to let that one hang in the air for a bit longer? Introduce Esther.

No, you do it. Okay. God, you're making me work very hard for the money today. Right. What would you call it? Oh. Well, it's one of the things I really couldn't stand about Lady Chatterley's Lover.

It was that whole John Thomas thing. Okay. Can't really get that out of my head. Okay. It wasn't really an answer to the question you'll have spoken about. Don't worry, listeners, I'll have to pay for that. Don't worry listeners, I'll get it out of her and I'll drop it in at a coded moment. Oh, I've got to do a Cheltenham read first.

The Cheltenham Literature Festival has a fantastic line-up of speakers this year, including some rather familiar voices from Times Radio. Cathy Newman will broadcast her show from the Cheltenham stage this Friday and will be there on Monday chatting to the Strictly judge, Shirley Ballas. You join in the audience to buy your tickets go to Cheltenhamfestivals.com literature. Big interview now. It's hard to underestimate and we should not the impact of Dame Esther Ransom's life and career from that's life with its never bettered but very much imitated combo of hard news and suggestive vegetables to the huge importance of Childline and then the Silverline. Esther is a doer. Now, she was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer

in January of this year, and she has been customarily honest about it. She also wrote to us recently on this podcast because she listens and we're thrilled that she does. She wanted to complain about our interview with Rory Stewart in which he was challenged about whether he and his co-presenter, Alistair Campbell, talked enough about and to women on their podcast and that made Esther annoyed. So we asked her if she fancied a chat with us and then we totally forgot to ask her about that,

just being honest there myself. We did, though, start by asking her how she is at the moment. Well, you see, I'm in a constant state of not knowing, which is what I didn't realise is that you get treatment and then you get a scan and then you get a treatment and then you get a scan. And in between the scans, you're in a state which is, I gather now understood to be scansiety. So as I speak, I don't know how I am. So I suppose I'm in a state of scansiety. And how do you think you have coped with all of the increasingly honest knowledge about the state of your health? Because from the outside looking in, it would seem that you have been as remarkable and honest, really, as ever.

Well, that's very kind of you. I always assume I'm in a state of denial because I've always thought denial was the perfect way to get on in life, you know, not notice. So that's what I try and do. But every now and then, someone asks me a question and I answer it. So I suppose that stops me being in complete denial. What impact is it having, Esther, on your daily life?

Well, the major change in my life is that I'm now living in the New Forest and that was caused by Covid. I would I don't think ever have made that decision. I don't think I would have dared to. I thought the whole of my existence was bound up with buzzing around London. And I was completely wrong because the New Forest has always been my favourite place since I was eight years old, actually. When, interestingly, I came here for convalescence. I stayed with a cousin. And the sheer magic of a forest with ponies and pigs and sheep and cows roaming at will was so lovely that from then on, I began to count the days until I could live here. And then I got into this strange sort of whirly gig. And so when Desi,

my late husband, Desmond Wilcox, said to me once, I think we'd better retire to the New Forest. I said, don't you think we'd get terribly bored? But not for the first time, not for the last. He was right. I was wrong. And I haven't been bored for a moment because it's so lovely to live here. And I haven't been bored for a moment because it's so lovely to live here. So I think it was really Covid that changed my situation. And then, of course, I'm 83. I knew I had to die of something. And it turns out this is what I'm going to die of, probably.

Yes. And it is only probably, isn't it? Yes. And it is only probably, isn't it? Yes, I could stride into the middle of the road and get knocked down by some of the speeding cars. We have a speed limit here of 30 at most, but some people, particularly driving white vans, I do not wish to be van-ist, but particularly those in white vans seem to go at fantastic speed. So I could walk in front of them all. And given the gales, one of the many trees could fall on my head. So you can never be sure, can you? Well, I'm not. I should have made it clear.

I'm not wishing death upon you imminently or indeed at any time. But of course, as you acknowledge, it, it's a reality for all of us. And I wonder, Esther, whether you believe that as a society, we're still not quite there in acknowledging this and talking about our own mortality. Well, do you want to? I mean, I don't enjoy it, to be honest. Well, OK, tell me why you don't. I mean, I don't enjoy it, to be honest. Well, OK, tell me why you don't. Well, because, you know, life is interesting and full of adventure and the Great British Bake Off has just started again

and a wonderful new reality show specialising in being kind and featuring older people called My Mum, Your Dad is happening on our screen. There's a lot to talk about besides the fact that we're all going to die. And so if we made you, if we put you in charge of things, and quite often, Esther, I think you are in charge of things anyway, but if we gave you the magic wand of government, actually, what would you be doing at the moment?

Ah, that's interesting. Well, at the moment, as we speak, I'm particularly interested in the new survey that's come out. Select Committee, I think, on Education brought it out probably today, this morning, it was in all the news, about why children aren't going to school. Or indeed, a number, I think it's something like a fifth of children are missing school. And why is that? And, you know, there's been a lot of interesting theories about lockdown and all kinds of things. But with my child line background, I say, let's listen to what the children tell us.

And what the children tell us quite often is that they find school difficult. For example, if you take the young male animal boys, they're not built to sit in one place at a desk for eight hours on end stretching their brains, are they? They want to stretch their muscles and limbs and run around a bit. their muscles and limbs and run around a bit. So I think if I were Prime Minister right now, I would say, let us drill down into this survey, because they did consult children, I'm pleased to see, and see what the children say about ways that we can improve children's lives at school by giving them stuff that isn't purely academic, stuff like drama and sport and music, and make sure that bullying is dealt with

and make sure that people with children with special needs like dyslexia are properly supported. So that's top of my list. Well, I think that's a very good place to start. I'd love you to do all of those things I'm interested as well Esther that you noted the my mum and dad program on tv which I think Jane and I've been enjoying too as you do get older and older do you think that our society is as welcoming as it should be to what is an increasingly large number of people living

longer. One of the reasons why the TV programme has been so loved is because there just aren't very many shows that actually detail the real lives of anybody over about 35. Quite right. And the other thing that people do is when they do surveys, Quite right. And the other thing that people do is when they do surveys, when there are medical surveys, it all stops at 70. Through score years and 10, I think we're all supposed to be invisible, inaudible and fall off our perches at 70. So what you say is absolutely true. It was very unusual. But mind you, these were all people known as mid-lifers weren't they the the people that whose children were trying to find suitable mates for them um so they were regarded as terribly old in television terms but that as you rightly say is because they were 35 plus yeah yeah so Yeah. Imagine if they'd been 65 plus. Can you imagine?

Oh, 75 plus. Why not? Bearing longevity in mind, what about the triple lock on pensions? Yes, indeed. What about that? Well, I wrote a letter to one of the papers suggesting that if they give us a minister for older people who will advocate for us and stop us being treated as various kinds of problem. I know one of the ministers responsible referred to the graph of doom, which meant that we were living longer. Can you imagine the graph of doom? Anyway, if we could have a minister who turns that round and regards this as a resource and, you know, a generation to be treasured, then I'm prepared to reconsider the triple lock because some people might not need it. We actually just need a minister for old age, don't we? Yes. I mean, you've got a commissioner for children. Wales has had a commissioner for older people for ages and ages and very active, doing all kinds of campaigns.

But I think I blame my generation in the 60s who turned all our attention toward the youth, YOOF, and got very bored with the fact that it was older people in all the important roles. I don't know if you remember but the BBC in the 60s and 70s, before you were born probably No

No, so she coldly No, no, listen, I'm 59 Esther and I'm very proud of it. So you should be and wait till you're 69. You'll be prouder still. You know you're old when you mention your age and the audience applaud you.

Yeah. Well, I am old enough to remember, was it Annie, the lady in Shepherd's Bush Market who used to light up That's Life? Yes, yes. We discovered her by chance, aged 86. And there she was in her glasses and her brown felt hat and her woolly winter coat. And she looked as little like the stars of Love Island as can be imagined. And she had a hundred times their charisma because she was naughty and funny.

I remember once I was offering her glasses of some sort of liquid. I said, some of it's whiskey and some of it's brandy. Can you tell the difference? And she sang me a song about whiskey makes you frisky and brandy makes you, you know, I can't quite recall. Don't be coy, Esther. Last time we talked to you, you entertained us with the notion that you might try and get a new kind of That's Life commissioned

and you'd like the title of it to be Winking with Esther Ransom. Do you remember that? Whatever happened to Winking with Esther Ransom? Well, I think it was. Someone did try it, but it's a jolly difficult program to make. That's, you know, walking the tightrope we walked and also researching viewers' letters. There'd be emails today from scratch. It's quite labor intensive. And I don't think I was ever off duty during the run of the show because people would ring me up and talk to me wherever I went.

And it was always worth listening, always important to listen. So it was fun. We've got a WhatsApp group now called Lifers or That's Lifers. Yeah, that's brilliant. I bet there's some stuff on that. Yes, lots of reminiscence. And my lovely daughter, Rebecca, is going through some of the old letters that I used to get and that I used to reply to. And she's got an extremely loud and filthy laugh. And it's a pleasure to hear it. Right. Is that a safe place to post images of oddly shaped fruit and veg then, Esther, if I come across anything at Shepherd's Bush Market?

oddly shaped fruit and veg then, Esther, if I come across anything at Shepherd's Bush Market. Yes, well, you see, that's the one good thing about Brexit, isn't it? That we're not liable to the important rules put out by the EU, including there should be no odd shaped vegetables. I think they changed their mind after a while. I think we probably wore them down. Yes, that's absolutely right. Esther, it's so lovely to talk to you. We really appreciate you making time in your day. And we really wish you well too. And I'm so glad you're in the New Forest. I actually didn't know that,

but what a beautiful, beautiful part of the world to be in. Aren't I lucky? Aren't I lucky? Yes. Well, thank you. And more power to the pair of you. The absolutely wonderful and glorious Esther Ranson. So she might be quite surprised if she's downloaded the podcast to hear herself in it, do you think? She might be. Yeah.

Well, I hope she's enjoyed hearing herself. Well, I would imagine so. You know this stuff about the Brexit rules and the no wonky vegetables? Yeah. Well, you know, Therese Coffey has said at the Tory conference this bit, but it's come back again. Bendy bananas. It's back.

Yeah. It's like living in a, it's just a very strange place at the moment, isn't it? Well, I think it is. And let's get a tiny bit political and serious for a moment. There's quite a lot that's and serious for a moment. There's quite a lot that's come out of the Tory party conference that if you, you know, were coming to after a particularly hefty night out, you might think, blimey, it's 1989. I mean, there has been...

1978. You know, mentions of single parents and the damage that they might be doing to the benefits system. There's an inference about people who are living on benefits who really should be back into work. And that's different to what we were being encouraged to call only a month or so ago the economically inactive, which is a different and less loaded term for maybe the same kind of people.

And the bendy bananas, you're right. I mean, bendy bananas was kind of front page of the sun when 30 years ago 20 years ago yeah absolutely yes i think it probably was it must be that that buses bananas at one point there were stories about europe banning prawn cocktail crisps yeah so it is it is a funny one yeah it's a it's a it's a certainly uh well it's a recurring one that's for sure. I just don't know, Fi. I don't know what's happening. Do not know. No. Well, look, we've got the

Labour conference next week and there'll be plenty to talk about there. Oh, and there'll be lots of balance because there's plenty there that will get on my wick. I want to do a hard recommend to Boiling Point, which Fi hasn't watched and I don't know why she hasn't. Well, you know why I haven't because I told you before. Okay, well, can't reveal why she hasn't. But I why i haven't because i told you before okay well can't reveal why um but i am really enjoying it but if anybody works in a restaurant and they want

to say what they think well i don't know you've ever worked in in restaurants is it as stressful as portrayed in boiling point which is behind the scenes in a restaurant kitchen basically and i think it's done really well but then i've never worked in a restaurant so I don't know my youngest daughter is a waitress um in during uni holidays and she has lots of stories none of which I'll repeat but also she's in a posh wine bar isn't she it's not a wine bar it's called something else which when she first started um on her first shift somebody asked what they'd recommend, what she'd recommend, and of course she didn't know. So she just said, what I do is I just get the cheapest ice.

It's not actually, it's not really. She talked to customers, who she thought was all right. Yeah, no, and I'm sure the cheapest was absolutely fine. What was it, oysters? No, it was a glass. She was asked for a wine recommendation. Oh, God, well, I mean, the cheapest was absolutely fine. What was it, oysters? No, it was a glass. It was asked for a wine recommendation. Oh, God. Well, I mean, the cheapest wine in central London,

heavens above, that will be a little bit spenny. Right, so we've got pepper pots, we've got working in kitchens, names for your todgers. There's plenty to go on, kids, and we'll talk to you at the same time tomorrow. Bye now.

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