Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Identification of the chin hairs (with Davina McCall)

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Fi had a PAL-AV-UH in Brighton and Jane doesn't have much sympathy. Once they move past that, they chat estate agent pictures, pensions and star signs. Plus, they're joined by TV presenter and menopause advocate Davina McCall. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. We're just whispering now.

Right. We've reconvened for a new week on Off Air. I whisper in front of a microphone thinking that will protect me from the law. But it won't, will it? It won't. No, it won't. I very much hope everybody had a good weekend. Did you have a good weekend?

We had quite an exhausting weekend. Yes, you did. Only because we went to a party out of town in a neighbouring town. Went to Brighton, actually. Do you like Brighton? Do you go to Brighton a lot? Oh, gosh. I have been to Brighton a couple of times. We've performed in Brighton, have we Do you like Brighton? Do you go to Brighton a lot? Oh, gosh. I have been to Brighton a couple of times.

We've performed in Brighton, have we not? Have we? Yeah. God, sometimes I think I don't mean a thing to you. Yes, we were live in Brighton. Were we at the really lovely, turreted thingamajiggywhatsit? I think we were at the Dome. The Pavilion?

Not the Pavilion. No. No. The Dome. Brighton Dome. Have I got that wrong? We were at a shape in Brighton. It is the at the Dome. The Pavilion. Not the Pavilion. No. No. The Dome. Brighton Dome. Have I got that wrong? We were at a shape in Brighton.

It is the Brighton Dome. Thank you. You're from Brighton. I'm from Brighton. So do you, no, I'm going to be nice, but do you ever feel that your town is going to fall into the sea? I felt all the time it's just going to slip in because I'm just used to being in very very very flat London and it was just quite strange quite blowy at the weekend very blowy at the weekend but to cut a very long and yes rather

to least do know you were interested first time round so I appreciate second time round oh gosh we just we got we got to our Airbnb with a big dog in tow, took Nancy away for the weekend, had a party to get to. Somebody had broken into the key code box and taken the key. Yeah, how does that happen? Not that we want to give tips to anyone. I mean, it had just been jammied open. So anyway, we had to find alternative accommodation. Jammied.

Jammied. Jammied. Yes, I used to be a burglar. I was going to say. It's a jammie. You're really leaning into your past life of accommodation. Jem-eed. Jem-eed. Jem-eed. Yes, I used to be a burglar. I was going to say. It's a Jem-ee. You're really leaning into your past life of crime. We ended up having to book an incredibly expensive hotel room because not every hotel wants an enormous greyhound.

And obviously then to discover that you can't leave your dog in the room on their own. So we had to book an emergency dog sitter as well and the whole thing was just like having a child again like having a baby baby because what if nancy hadn't got on with the dog sitter well i they were very lovely people who who came along was it more than one do the dog sitting yes it was it was two young students and i think nance does get a bit upset actually with strange people but you know she did she knows she's going to be all right and I know she's going to be all right it's a hell of an

excuse to leave a function isn't it palaver absolute palaver so we did we had a lovely time at the party but we did have to get back for the dog I mean it just sounds so pathetic doesn't it I've got to get back for my dog it kind of depends on how much you're enjoying the evening. And I'm so sorry. I've got to tear myself away because we've got these two lovely students looking after our slightly nervous dog. So we've got to go. No, I think that's wonderful. That's your kind of cynical excuse.

It's lovely. That wasn't us at all. But we genuinely did have to tear ourselves away from a very nice party because we had a great big slightly weak bladdered elderly greyhound that's enough now to go and see too so yeah and then we we had to get up at six o'clock because it was the brighton half marathon did you do that eve your little sister did oh gosh well we would we were trapped in the cordon if we'd waited until after seven so we got back to london and genuinely felt like we had jet lag we've been to brighton how pathetic are we had to go back to bed i'm surprised if you were one of those snowflakes that we have today you'd

have taken the week off i would have taken the monday off yeah i'd be interested to see some statistics on 20 somethings work habits and just how how often the Monday features as not being a work habit. WFH on a Monday. Yes. I don't know. I have to say I do have a certain sympathy for the listener who WhatsApped us this afternoon just to say I grew up in the 70s. We didn't have mental health.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s. And that point is essentially true. I am not saying that there weren't millions of people struggling with all sorts of things at that time. And lest we forget, you'd still have people around at the time who had lived through horrendous experiences during the Second World War, for example. But what is absolutely undeniable is that there wasn't a focus on mental health, was there? There just wasn't. I'm not saying it's wrong to focus on mental health. I'm just saying that it's true that it really has changed in our lifetime, all this.

So we're talking about this because there's been a new survey by the Resolution Foundation that does have some quite alarming statistics about the number of 20 to 24-year-olds out of work through ill health mental ill health and so that just bodes so badly for their future if you can't get into the job market and stay in work in your 20s you know you become further and further removed from opportunity don't you so it is a worry and although I completely agree with you about all of that um you know I do think we've got to try and hand down something of greater wisdom and something more positive than just our condemnation because it can't help anything I don't think it is helping for you know for for

all of us to slightly kind of um sneer at some elements of those statistics. So what would your advice be? I don't think I've got any advice. I'm genuinely interested in the way things have changed in the course of my lifetime. And I welcome the openness about so many more of us being able to acknowledge the fact that we do sometimes suffer from at times quite crippling anxiety or depression or I'm not talking personally although I'm anxious in the same way as most people are most of the time

but I do have friends a little bit more actually it I'm and I'm not being yeah facetious here but you do have a doom head I mean you genuinely think the apocalypse is around the corner yes I do and life's not getting any calmer let's and you do read my teenage diaries, nobody will. Or will they? I think I probably would have been diagnosed with anxiety as somebody in their teens and twenties. But I don't think I was remotely unusual. But I wasn't diagnosed with anything.

Partly because, like many people of my generation, I was never given the opportunity to talk about it. And maybe that wasn't such a bad thing. I don't know. Yeah. So I agree with you as long as you're absolutely talking about a kind of mild anxiety. Yeah, and I am. Yeah, that didn't actually cripple you. It didn't lead to something worse. It didn't make you make incredibly bad decisions. You you know all of the things that very serious anxiety disorders do make you do and make you suffer from my only piece of advice jane would just be to not not feel that you have to take all of yourself to work so i think

there is a different level of sharing and a different level of emotional conversation around these days which is fantastic but also i don't think that you always benefit from bringing every single bit of yourself to work i think you can just choose which bits you bring and sometimes that definitely will make it easier on days when the rest of life is rubbish to just go well I've got my work mask yeah and I'm going to put my work mask on today yeah and actually without sounding like a brisk gym teacher back in the 1950s a lot of people love that you might find that you feel a little bit better when you get home but it's about being it's true though isn't it outward looking and absorbing yourself in the affairs of state as as we do each and every day, or indeed in the conversations of your colleagues.

It's about looking outwards, not gazing at your own slightly whiffy navel. Yeah, but we are saying this as two women who are doing a podcast where we are mining our own lives quite often. I haven't even got onto my anecdote of the weekend yet. So we are aware of our own hypocrisy. Yes, we're the most self-involved. Well, I think I am. Yeah, no, but also I think sometimes companies demand way too much of the young people and they do these crazy things, where they provide a canteen and a gym and beanbags and ping pong and a fuzzball team and a wellness balcony a wellness balcony and allotments on the roof and all of that kind of stuff and it gives people

the impression that they're in a warm caring loving philanthropic kind of bourneville type don't be fooled experiment and you're not your company is doing that to get the best out of you but it doesn't mean that it's really going to love you back. So you can leave some of your stuff at home, go and do your work bits, and go home to your own metaphorical wellness balcony. And cut yourself a big piece of cheese when you get in to celebrate. I had a little bit of an incident at the weekend.

It's very minor, this, but... Do-do-do-do-do. Anecdote of the weekend. Thank you. Went to a leading department store to look at tellies because I am in the market for a bigger screen. Got talking to a charming young assistant. Did you?

Yes, I did. Well, he came over to me and said, I think he said, I've got a PhD in tellies. I thought, is that? I mean, you must certainly know the business. But I was with my eldest daughter and it turned out this chap, long story this, but he was showing me how different screens showed turned out this chap, long story this, but he was showing me how different screens showed different, you know, how it looked.

Because what I don't get about tellies is some of them went two and a half, three grand and others were 350. And I simply couldn't tell the difference. So he was showing us the sharpness of the screens. I said, should we go on YouTube? And then he said to my daughter, do you think I look like Chunks? I thought, is this some sort of code that young people use? And it turned out that he did look a bit like Chunks,

who's a big, big star on YouTube. He's so much like Chunks that he's called Funks by Chunks. So Chunks is aware of Funks' existence? Chunks is aware of fake Chunks. Okay. And indeed, he includes him on some of his socials as his leading impersonator. So he's Funk's, he's not Chunks.

Do you think that the young gentleman with the PhD in television, do you think when he saw you come in with your very, very lovely daughter, do you think he thought, God, I really need to go and help that middle-aged woman? Yes, I'm absolutely certain that was his motivation. I think so. But as we left, I said, God, do you think that wasn't actually Funks, that was Chunks? And we're going to end up on one of his videos.

So she did a bit of doodling and it turned out the real Chunks was in Qatar. OK. And I would imagine you went quite smart. What are you saying? Chunks, you mean they wouldn't have let him do it? No. No, I don't think the partnership would allow a prankster

into the hallowed halls of electrical items. I think you're probably right. Anyway, the really exciting punchline is that I haven't ordered a telly. Right. So you've still got the tiny one. He said. No, I'm not going to mention what he said. Because it might...

You wouldn't... It was actually very... He was very friendly. No, no, he's very friendly, but I don't want him to get into trouble with his employer because he was actually very good. Did he offer to come round to your house? You rejoin us now,

where Sue in Chelmsford thought that we might like to see the massive hole in her sourdough bread. Yes. Well, I've enjoyed it. I really have enjoyed seeing that. This is the problem with sourdough. What's the point?

There's hardly anything there. This is what we were discussing, wasn't it? There's a yeasty burp inside every loaf. And Sue says I had to strategically position the lettuce so that the beetroot slices didn't fall through. That's a good use of your day. We've had so many lovely emails, Jane. I don't know where to start. Well, start.

Actually, can I just mention Wendy? Of course you can. She's in Herefordshire. And she says, it did make me smile for you and Jane that your book was on the new book stand at Ledbury Library in Herefordshire on Friday. Keep up the good work. It's still available, everybody.

And now I'm delighted to say it's in no lesser place than Ledbury Library. It's lovely, Ledbury. It's a really bustling market town with a number of independent stores. But it's not a new book. The point is, it's not a new book. But I am delighted that they're stocking it in Ledbury Library. I hope it's not available on that stand for long. I hope a local individual has snaffled it up.

And to be honest, it's classic literature, so it'll make sense in any decade. Glyn has said, men. God, this is a handy piece of advice. So this is about making your penis larger, and the title of the email is 1.83 bigger. That'll make sense if you listen to the last episode. Glyn says, save the time and hassle of undertaking an internet scam penis extension

by just getting an estate agent to take a photo of your tiny penis using the same camera that used to take photos of properties for their websites. Somehow they transform a pokey garden. You can barely swing Dora or Barbara in to the hanging gardens of Babylon. Imagine what they could do for your penis. It's a very good idea. Yes. I wonder if you can get hold of those specialist photographers who can just make everything weenie look magnifico. It's all about the angle, isn't it? It's all about angles. It is. No, no it is fine talking of property and we did briefly discuss house building on the program today on the radio program um i was on a tube the other day there were some flats being advertised in wembley part of london northwest london near there's you

know well known for its stadia and arena and um you could it was a new build and you could rent a studio flat and the prices started at £1,700 a month. I've seen that very same ad. And that's one room. It's a studio flat. How is that possible? And also, it's Wembley. So that's not to say that parts of Wembley aren't nice, but you're not in the centre of town. It's not like you're going to open your curtains

and see Nelson's statue or Big Ben. You've still got to flog into town. You have. I just don't understand this world. £1,700, you'd need to be earning... You'd need to be earning £80,000 or £90,000 and you'll also need to want to live in a studio flat. Yep.

Doesn't make any sense. It's tough, tough times, isn't it? Yeah, it's just crazy. So this is called White Noise Zapper, and it's an email from C, and it's quite a long email, and thank you very much indeed for that, and I'm glad that we've brought you so much company over the last couple of years. Two brain bashers come in from our correspondent. One, frustration that my earnings and self-perceived status at work

have never really recovered since I prioritised our kids over my career 15 years ago. I should note that this is the result of planned decisions I took myself and in the grand scheme of things I would probably do it all again. It just annoys and sits heavily with me at times. I do find it hard to accept that my husband will now probably always earn significantly more than me, even though our trajectories were the other way round pre-kids. He's very lovely, by the way, and I love him to bits. We are comfortable financially,

and he never understands why this bothers me. I don't understand it myself, if I'm honest. I think it may be linked to self-esteem or my perception of success in some ways. My sanity check is that I want my children to remember I did my very best as their mum. Pre-kids in more demanding and stressful roles, I didn't really have any headspace for a personal life.

Never mind mumdom. And in at number two, and these are both things that our correspondent would just like all of us to maybe have a think about, or if it keys in with your own experience, you know, start a conversation. Becoming visually someone I don't recognise or like very much in my 40s. Photo dodging and feeling embarrassed about the way I look as I age. For me, it's mainly about middle age spread and how I can no longer meet the standards I'd previously set for myself. I do realise that both these concerns are minor compared to some of the very serious

issues raised by your correspondence but nonetheless they do chip away at me. If you're able to help rationalise these hang-ups, stop self-flagellating Da Vinci Code style and move on you could save me a tidy sum in future shrink bills and possibly even red wine. So we put both those two things out there. I would say I recognise both those conditions, actually. And I think an awful lot of our listeners will do, too. And we're just told, especially on point number two, Jane, aren't we? on point number two, Jane, aren't we?

We are told almost incessantly how immensely proud we should be of our ageing process and succumb to no kind of insecurity or lack of self-esteem. But at the same time, we must also... We must also buy an awful lot of products. Yeah, you must immerse yourself in a vat of serum each and every evening

and stay there for up to six hours. Yeah, and also i just think i don't think that an awful lot of women genuinely do take all of that new positive messaging on board look at themselves in the mirror and go bloody fantastic love you know what a marvelous new wrinkle that is to have emerged you know i think we're telling ourselves something that she we're not quite believing and that's that's quite a kind of painful rub. So we chuck that out there. See what other people think.

Yeah. And as for the earnings, I that's just it's just a plain fact, isn't it, that you can be the bigger owner. And then you do take time out of the workplace to bring up the children, to have the children. It doesn't even matter whether it's for a year, two years or 15 years. You are going to lose out financially. And then when you get older, you lose out with your pension as well. That's why there's this enormous gulf in women's and men's pensions, which it's basically fine if you're still married to the person you were married to

and he's a lovely person and you're great and you're happy and you'll be able to share what the pot is. But if you're not, then that can be very tricky, which is why you should always mention the pension in a divorce settlement. Yes, you should. Always mention it. Sometimes forgotten. Don't let it be forgotten.

But also I think there's something that happens, and this is what our correspondent has alluded to, isn't there, where if you're lucky and you've been comfortable and you've been able to make those choices about childcare, it's asking the other person to understand that with that might come a different feeling once you've got to the end of that journey of hands-on childcare. So what you felt at the beginning when you gave up work in order to look after the house and the kids and all that kind of stuff, it just may not be the same feeling you know when you wave them out of the family nest and you might be surprised by how much you suddenly feel a bit disappointed by life or resentful and and I think it's equally

hard for that other person the one who's done all of the earning you know and has probably had loads of days where they thought I'd much rather stay at home with the kids that would be a nicer life I think it's hard then to share those emotions together and understand those changing feelings I think what's hard for women if it is the woman who stayed at home and it still is usually isn't it is is that the teenagers are not noted for their then they don't turn around to the mother as it usually is the mother who's given up so much for them and say, hey, I hear you were really high-flying back in the day

and then you took five years off to wipe my bottom. Thanks, Mum. They just slam the door and they curl their lip and they couldn't give a toss. Is that what's happened? I just wanted to mention this from Marie. The email you read out last week about the penis enlargement, I should have done this earlier, I do apologise,

reminded me of an old sketch on telly with Dawn French and her then-husband Lenny Henry. It was very funny. This is how it went. Dawn approached Lenny from behind with a broom and just started poking him in the small of his back with the handle. He understandably looked really annoyed and said, why are you doing that?

And she said, exactly, See how you like it. It does require a bit of imagination, but I'm sure you understand the situation she was trying to recreate. It was pre-internet and that must have been a blessing for Dawn, says Marie. Marie, thank you. I've got a terrible visual image now. Cleanse yourself. Well, I'm going to cleanse myself with some new information about waxing from Sam. Sam is our in-house therapist who we talked about before.

In answer to your question about whether there is a cut-off age for bikini waxing or, in fact, any hair removal, the answer is absolutely not. Hair texture and density does change with age, but our feelings about it do not. Therefore, it can and will be removed until the end of your life. It's best to visit a specialist, well, always, Sam, if you have delicate skin, because they will have a choice of different waxes which will suit your skin type.

But most people can tolerate any form of hair removal. And Sam goes on to say, we've got a handful of ladies in their late 90s and early 100s who come to us with the help of their families and carers especially to get their chins waxed this is because it makes them feel that they are still living and they actually say that to us we care very much about them and make sure they feel very looked after whilst they are with us sam is also a laser specialist and will happily remove hair permanently to any age and any gender

provided they are suitable, consulted and patch tested so long as the hair is dark that's an option and that's something to consider because the laser doesn't work on white hair therefore the older you leave it the more likely you'll have a few stray white hairs left over and she informs us that the oldest Hollywood laser

she's ever done 70 years old Hollywood being and she informs us that the oldest Hollywood laser she's ever done is 70 years old. Hollywood being? Everything off. Yeah, everything. Why does white hair resist the laser? Because I think the laser in order for it to actually get down to the root of the hair has to be able to identify it so it works on a dark hair on the pigment. Says who are? Yes, it asks for a little piece of identification and then says, out you come, out you come forever. No place being here.

But I've always wondered whether that's a little bit like soil erosion because if you take all of the trees out of a slope, then the soil just sinks after a while. So I wonder whether if you take all of the hairs out of your skin, what happens to that skin? Gosh, that geography field trip, the money wasn't wasted, was it? Morning, Jane and Fee, says Linda. I'm writing from the luxurious surroundings

of an Avanti West Coast Standard carriage. Now, is this going to trigger you? It's my first time travelling with Avanti and it's been fine. I quite like the teal uniforms the staff wear. However, I'm sitting across from Business Billy. He's been on his phone constantly. I think he's going through his contact list because he keeps telling people he gets 30% off his train fare.

The signal keeps dropping out, so he just keeps calling people back. He does have a laptop in front of him with email facilities any anyway she says thanks for what you do no she says i hope you know how appreciated you are we don't do we we really don't anyway now business billy's made friends with business bob who's also been on his phone but at a slightly lower volume that's nice oh linda they are a pain in the ass aren't they these people um i I mean, yes, who cares that he's got 30% off his train fares? Shut up!

Oh, dearie me. Right, just a final one from me. This is going to remain anonymous. I'm a bit behind with your podcast, but I had to email after your stories about parts of your body you can't change. I had an awful tearing after both my children. The second time was third degree,

and as I lay there with my feet and stirrups being repaired, the doctor complained that my skin was the toughest he'd ever had to stitch. In fact, as tough as old boots. In the moment, why, as a woman, did I feel the need to apologise for it? Oh, that's terrible. And you have my deepest, deepest sympathy. Yeah, i'm wincing with you uh all i can say is 27 years later i'm suffering increasingly from the after effects of his repair and he should be the one apologizing to me now that is a topic that we could throw out to our listeners because those birth injuries they don't always get better with age no they don't and they are there i think you know people say there are no taboos left.

I think that's probably one of them. I agree with you. And I don't think the episiotomy, which is the cut that can happen, I don't think that's explained to women enough ahead of childbirth. And I don't think the repercussions from a third degree tear are explained at all.

And it's excruciating so we're happy to talk about that uh the ps on this is lovely though jane yeah my my son's head is so large that every christmas he rips every paper hat he puts on and i still wince that's just ruined comes back haunted every year you just can't enjoy your lunch. No. You're taken right back. No. Right, yes, anything you want to bung in to that particular conversation,

it's jadenfee at times.radio. voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone let's bring in our guest it is appropriately a queen of women's health, pioneering women's health, campaigning and much else besides. She basically runs television. She's on every major hit show on the other sides. Davina McCall, MBE, has been at the helm of Big Brother and Long Lost Family. Long Lost Family. And she's one of the panellists on the very strange but strangely life-enhancing

show Masked Singer. That's the thing on a Saturday night which is very family-friendly and celebrities dress up in elaborate costumes and they sing. Recently Davina failed to spot her long-lost family co-host Nikki Campbell who was disguised as a boiled egg. She's a busy woman, Davina, but she does like a sunshine break. She joined us to talk about recent research by the company Chewy Blue, which revealed that nearly half don't go on holiday just to relax, but to become the best versions of themselves. And that's certainly how I approach things as I arrive at Gatwick South Terminal. I asked Davina the all-important question, what does it mean to be your best self on holiday?

I think it means connecting. I think when we go away on holiday, usually it's with people we love. I mean, I think nobody goes on holiday with somebody that they don't want to kind of connect with on a deeper level I think in a massive way for me it's less phone more time for people I care about so kids family I've just been away in Newcastle I mean I know it's not very far but I went to Newcastle I was with my kids but I read a book in four days wow okay because you were fantastic yeah different I've just got the time like in the evening I go to bed and they're they're sort of maybe going out for a drink together or whatever and and I've got you know three or four hours to

just read such such a treat well it is it is a treat it's a place of safety for most of us isn't it if we're lucky enough to enjoy it can we just talk a little bit about you? Because your life must be so frantic because you just do so much stuff. Now, you and Nikki have reduced me to tears any number of times on Long Lost Family. There's the Big Brother days. There's the Masked Singer, which I think is one of the, it's such a charming show because no harm is done on the masked singer. That's another place of safety, isn't it? Definitely. I mean, I can't think of many entertainment programmes nowadays that would have such a broad age of audience. So, you know, we have children sort of eight and above in the audience. But I know loads of kids come up to me, five years old, six years old, that might recognise me from the show and get all excited.

And you think, wow, this is real. Sit down with your granny or great-granny. Like, everybody enjoys it. Because it's so funny. Well, it's funny, but it's, I mean, the fact that you didn't recognise, was it Nicky Campbell? Oh, don't.

He was Dippy Egg. Oh, no, please don't. Come on, Davina. What went wrong? You've worked with the man for decades. No, I mean, it's so embarrassing. I don't think I'm ever going to live it down. What was really funny was that

obviously watching at home, I'm like, of course it's Nicky Campbell. I don't know whether I know it's Nicky Campbell because I know it's Nicky Campbell so I can hear it in his voice, but I do honestly think if I... I know I sound like I'm making excuses and I kind of am, but if I can hear it in his voice but I do honestly think if I I mean I know I sound like I'm making excuses and I kind of am but if I could hear better in studio none of us can hear a thing really that's why we all pull those faces when they're singing like we're trying to listen because

there's so much hubbub happening around us that it's very hard to hear but what's funny is that we we were working together obviously at the time, you know, in the middle of filming this series that will be coming out in this year. So he really was brilliant at not giving anything away at all. But we've laughed a lot about it since then. Well, I'm glad to hear that everything's all right between you. Can we talk about your other stuff? I mean, you are the only woman I know.

Well, actually, I have watched you having a coil fitted. And that's a fairly extraordinary thing to see somebody else going through. I know it was done by an expert, Leslie Regan, so it probably wasn't as painful as it might have been if somebody else had done it. That was in your... One hopes that all people fitting coils are experts. it um that was in your one hopes that all all people fitting coils know what they're doing yeah it was in your documentary pill

revolution and um do you know what the impact of that documentary was because it was all about explaining that the pill isn't for every woman i mean i think what it is is about all of the work that we're doing cape muir me um all the menopause mandate, obviously your Mariella Frostrup, who is a great friend of mine and a brilliant activist. All we're trying to do is highlight the enormous gaping chasms of like that there are in women's health research. So in terms of the pill, it just seemed so daft that there hadn't been any kind of big movements in the type of pill or anything. But that is largely also because we were just told when we complained about anything or when we were told about when we talked about the side effects, well, you're just going to have to put up with it. And this is kind of what we've put up with all of our lives in terms of women's health. up with it and this is kind of what we've put up with all of our lives in terms of women's health so we just wanted to highlight that it was hard to find anything that didn't have a side effect and

I was one of the lucky few that didn't really feel the side effects of of the hormone pill but you know maybe I did I mean I had a very kind of difficult teenage time up until my mid-20s you know maybe maybe I was being affected by it, but there were so many other things going on, I wasn't quite sure. But one of the reasons, the coil had the best rating of all contraceptives. And yes, it was the one that most people were like, oh my God, no, I'd never get a coil fitted. It's so painful. And what people don't know is that there was a directive two years ago that all women should be offered pain relief, proper pain relief from a healthcare provider when they go and get a coil.

But nobody knows this. And I thought that's criminal that nobody's asking for it because they don't know about it. And quite often they might ask for it and they don't know about it and quite often they might ask for it and they don't get it because the health care provider either doesn't know about this directive or they don't know how to provide the pain relief so I wanted to show the difference that the pain relief can make and I never had a coil put in with pain relief because it's a new directive and I hadn't had one put in for five years but I can't tell you the difference that it made in it and it's not just that we had

somebody that was very good at their job. This should really make a difference for everybody having coils fitted and everybody should be asking for pain relief. And with the Mirena coil, I think I'm right in saying you don't get periods, do you? You shouldn't. Some women do. Don't worry if you do get a period. Some women get very light periods. Some women find it makes their bleeding much lighter. Some women find that they don't get if you do get a period some women get very light periods some women some women find it makes their bleeding much lighter some women find that they don't get a period for a few years and then something much lighter comes back later and some women like me don't I mean obviously I don't anymore but when I was having periods it actually did take my periods away completely because I always had very light periods already, but it can make quite a difference in that way. And because it's very small amounts of progesterone being released constantly for years and years,

but it's so localized, sometimes it agrees with women better than the pill does. It's a case of one size doesn't fit all, as the same with the menopause you know we are all very different we're all made up of in very different ways and we need to try a few things before it's right but the problem with the coil lots of women don't want to try the coil because you've got to get it put in and if it doesn't suit you got to get it taken out but it did score very highly um in in in rating in terms of sort of customer satisfaction. Wonderful. And just very briefly on the menopause, I mean, it's still true, isn't it? That, I mean, I'm certainly, I've used HRT, I have found it helpful.

I know it's not the answer for absolutely every woman, but I still worry that it's women, gobby women, women like me, and let's be honest, like you and Mariella, we've been used to a certain standard of living, I guess, and a feeling of relative good health. And we won't tolerate feeling a bit crap. I wonder whether women who are perhaps less equipped to fight for themselves are actually getting the most out of what's now available. What do you think?

are actually getting the most out of what's now available. What do you think? Well, I think, first of all, it's very, very difficult because whenever you hit perimenopause, and this stands for women nowadays and women, when I hit perimenopause 13 years ago, whenever you hit it, if you look online, you will be faced with so much contradictory information. The press and I love the press because they are very important for spreading positive messages

or important news. But sometimes the press go wilfully to contradict something that somebody said that might just be kind of scaremongering but then it puts tons of women backwards by you know years and years because they get terrified they don't want to use it but I was just been told that it's been safe I don't know what to do nobody knows who the trusted doctors are it's such an absolute nightmare trying to find information and when we're not given it by our GPs because our GPs aren't 100% sure of it not all of them anyway and yes we are gobby but I wasn't gobby when I was perimenopausal I was very frightened I felt very lonely and I didn't know who to ask and I was lying to my friends about when I did go on HRT because I was so ashamed.

I mean, you know, I am a confident person, but I'd really lost that confidence. I'd lost my fire. I'd lost my bravery. And that's why it's so hard to go and fight for yourself when you go for a doctor's appointment because perimenopause makes you a shadow of your former self. And that's why we always say, me and Mariella, you know, take someone with you. Take someone like us now. Take someone as gobby as us now, Jane, in with you to the doctors, because sometimes you can't advocate for yourself.

So it is a difficult time. It's a battle that I don't think we will ever win. But education, education, education, be on top of all the new information, get your education from the right place. And understand that it's nuanced, very like the pill. Any kind of hormone replacement therapy is very nuanced. And just try and learn as much as you can. And very, very briefly, what about the critics who say there's now simply too much talk about the menopause and actually that could hold women in middle age back? That's absolute twaddle. I mean, if I could swear, I'd really like have a tirade of swear words coming out of my mouth

right now, because that makes me really angry. It's like we've held menopausal women back for decades and it's time now to come out of the dark and celebrate midlife and you know the more we talk about it the more we educate the more confidence and empowerment we can give midlife women and the more we can get them back to doing what they want to do which is being part of society and contributing in the amazing way that they should be because we have so much to offer Davina McCall they're speaking up as she does so often for menopausal women and we are quite interested in what we don't want to talk so much about the menopause saying last week I am beginning to think

that's possibly enough I think it might be enough for now. It seems like we've been, our moon cup run this over. But, oh God, that takes me right back to the domestic sphere. If you were to go on Masked Singer, what costume would you like? Oh, that's a brilliant question. Thank you. I would like,

so Nicky Caramel was a soft-boiled egg. A dippy egg. And he had bits of yellow yolk trickling down his egg head. Right. I think I'd like to be a bowl of ramen. Right. Okay, that's quite hard to do. I'd like to be a bagel, which, of course, would be an impossible costume

because they couldn't do it. Yeah. But I love bagels so much that in tribute to them, I would like to go on The Mouse Singer as a filled bagel. But, of course the hole in the middle would make it almost impossible to do but if you have a design that might lend itself do let us know a little bit visual that one I think uh let's welcome Wendy I wrote to you last year and you kindly read out my email about the ooyahs in the hut next door to us in

Bali when my friend and my friend Ross and I were trying to fall asleep that sounds disgusting uh listening to you last week talking about ladies' undergarments and the lack of slip-wearing, I had to write with a story about my grandmother, which does highlight the importance of said garment. Note my change to a very serious voice now. My grandmother was born in 1901. She's no longer with us.

Thankfully, perhaps, as she would be 123. This particular event took place in 1960, so she would be the age I am now, a 59, a sprightly 59, when she decided to go on a shopping trip to London. She dressed appropriately for a woman of her time in a tweed suit and all the appropriate undergarments along with a fur stole and a jaunty angled hat. She travelled by train and upon her arrival in London started perusing the shops in Bond Street. She travelled by train and upon her arrival in London started perusing the shops in Bond Street. She was getting lots of attention and sideways glances from other shoppers and fellow passengers but she just

thought this was because she was looking so fine. As she was walking past the shop window she happened to glance at herself to appreciate her fineness and realised why she'd be getting so much attention. She had actually forgotten to put on her skirt. Her chest was such a size that when she looked down all she could see was her shoes and in those days there was a lack of full-length mirrors. Thankfully she had on a very appropriate slip otherwise her girdle would have been on full display. Having inherited her magnificent pair of bosoms I always ensure I check myself in a full-length mirror before I go to London. Very sensible. That's Wendy. But if you do see somebody

walking the streets of London with a huge set of bazookas and just an underslip on, it's Wendy. It's probably Wendy. Yeah. And just say hello, but you've done what your granny did in 1960, Wendy. But it does sound as though the full-length mirror will protect her from doing so well i would imagine it might do but that's an absolutely lovely story really lovely story and we thank you for it yeah they could be quite robust couldn't they uh under slips i mean they could do the job of a skirt yeah and these days you know the ones that are slightly bias cut they look like normal skirts that the young people are wearing anyway. Yes. They do. So join us tomorrow. It's my birthday tomorrow, Jane. Yes. Will you be buying the Colin the Caterpillar or do I have to

buy my own? Well, I was going to put that to you. I did check and they're £12. Right, so you can buy two on your substantial salary, Mrs. Two? Well, I'm not handing it around to other teams. Oh, is it just for our team? In fact, I also checked out the prices of the individual Collins And they're much more reasonable And there are only six in the packet Would you consider one of those? Oh my dear Why don't you just get me a pack of Swiss rolls

I'll just get you a mini roll Just the one Right, what star sign are you? I'm Pisces Which means? Which means that I'm Pisces which means? which means that I'm you're a bit fishy no it means that I'm

that I've got a creative head but my feet are on the ground that's a load of absolute bollocks right join us tomorrow good evening goodbye You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so

of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. Thank you. on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us and we hope you can join us again

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