Off Air... with Jane and Fi - If music be the food of love, order her a happy meal - with Fred Sirieix

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Jane is back after her day off, and Fi is struggling to keep the peace... They're joined by the star of Channel 4's 'First Dates' Fred Sirieix to talk about the link between food and love. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producer: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Podcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, it's like a bloody zoo, your house. Right, um... We've had a ding-dong today, haven't we? Are we recording now? Oh, OK, sorry, neither of us were really... I don't feel plugged in. You want to hear yourself? Yes.

It's overrated. I can hear myself now. That's great. No, don't. Look, it's nice that you were back today. Don't blow it already. No. Silly woman. Is it nice for you to be back? It is quite nice to be back.

I think a lot of women, actually people of my age, will understand that I just had an older person situation. It just needed to be, well, I'd say dealt with, but it's not quite as simple as that, is it? Anyway, paid a visit and who knows? Well, obviously, it's nice to have you back. No, it's lovely to be back. I hope you don't get called north again this week.

Well, no. Well, no, I mean, it's difficult. Older people are, it's an immense privilege to grow old, actually. And some people are fortunate in older age. And I would say that my parents have been very fortunate in older age. But it doesn't make being old easy, actually, because it's not. And there are all sorts of things that just contribute to it. You have to just live your life in a different way, don't you?

And I think it can be quite difficult, even if you're actually blessed with pretty good physical and mental health. It can still be hard. Yeah, very much so so and you're lucky if you've got somebody like you in your life who can come and help you do the sorting well it is it's not it's good as well to have an understanding employer who says okay no i understand why you have to not everybody has that i just think um with at the moment i guess there are lots of people like me with older parents who because of the situation in the NHS, because of all the challenges we know it's up against, we are pretty much all saying to our parents or parent, don't go out.

And I hate myself for saying it. But on the other hand, honestly, trips, falls, you just don't want to be a part of any of it, do you? You don't. And you want to stock up on your medication and you don't want to be a part of any of it, do you? You don't. And you want to stock up on your medication and you don't want a really cold spell. And you want plenty of grit on the paths and a handrail wherever possible. I tell you what, that's what I did notice.

I was out about going for a walk over the weekend and there are dodgy paving steps. As a younger person, you pay absolutely no heed because you don't have to. And to be honest, I haven't really thought very much about the state of the pavements until you take, you go out for a walk with your elderly mum and you just see the potential for disaster everywhere.

Well, it's like going back to having toddlers, isn't it? You know that phase when they're first up and running? Yeah. And everything, the whole world takes on different meaning. And I remember that feeling of the world just being a dangerous place. And I don't mean in terms of terrible predators or anything like that. Just walking down the road. Risks.

This massive risk assessment. And I think your heart just skips a beat so many times, doesn't it, during those early years of childcare. And I think it's the same when your parents become elderly. I think it probably is. It's a very, very similar feeling. But look, it's nice to have you back. Elaine has said, I hope Jane enjoyed her day off yesterday,

perhaps spent playing golf. I've had to abandon the golf due to my work commitments. I need to change that because I looked at my golf clubs this morning. Well, Elaine says things seem to have gone a little quiet with the planning for the Garvey Celebrity Classic. So perhaps Jane was practising her swing in anticipation. So I'm sorry that you haven't managed to play any golf as you are. For people who aren't up to date with this, Jane is a later doctor of golf.

She'd started taking some lessons and her very very nice coach yeah then suddenly went on a very long holiday no it what they want that was not connected to the fact that i'd just taken up golf in fact i had a text from him saying look when you're going to come back so i'm really as and i suppose in a way it's a bit cold at the moment isn't it so when things warm up i'll be back down the driving range. You fair weather fanny. OK, another excellent guest yesterday in Carrie Adloyd. She was good, Jane. Yes, I'm sure.

Very, very good. And look forward to reading her book. Fascinating to hear that the Kubler-Ross process was in fact connected with dying stages of grief, which has really come into, I think, a lot of people's understanding of how best to deal with loss, with somebody dying. But I didn't realise this until I read Cariad's book, that it was actually designed for end of life care. Hence, you go through the denial and the anger and then ultimately you come to acceptance of the fact that you're going to die. So it makes perfect sense i think for dealing with that situation a lot of people have always struggled with it as a method to deal with grief and as carrie had said yesterday and lots of people

have said on texts and emails since actually the best thing the best way forward in dealing with grief is to accept that you may never accept it, if you know what I mean. It changes you. So you can't wait for that time. Well, you're just not the same. Yeah, where, you know, anything is going to return to the place it was before.

So she was really brilliant. You would have enjoyed her company. Elaine goes on to say very nice things about Cariad. And she also says that she's very much enjoying the variety of guests especially the writers and thanks to the production team for all of the hard work going into the show and the podcast as well as to you both of course and that's really lovely elaine because we have said a couple of times on the podcast that actually you know producers are what make it but it always sounds a bit glib when we say that.

So it's lovely. Kate's in hysterics over there. What's so funny? I don't know. I don't know why. She seems to laugh. Did you not get any of the face cream yesterday? Did she get the face?

You didn't get any? Get some out of Jane's box. Oh, no. No, I'm taking that all home. We've had some pharmaceuticals. We've had some freebies delivered. Back in our, I don't know why that happened. We've had some pharmaceuticals. We've had some freebies. Delivered. Back in our, I don't know why that happened,

back in our old life, let's be honest, let's just own it, freebies were thin on the ground. We had to declare them. And then we had to declare, we had to give them in. So we never got nothing. So this is very liberating. And I just, why Tim Davey looks so young. He's got all of our face creams. You must have.

Oh, there's been trouble at the BBC today, hasn't there? Do you want to do that little story? It tickled your fancy, didn't it? Well, no, I've actually lost it. This was about the man they call Posh Ed, Ed Sturton. He's a big unit, Ed. I wouldn't argue with him. And he was making the point

in one of those pesky Radio Times interviews, they get people every time in the Radio Times. I mean, I've done a few interviews for them, but I've never generated the headlines required. Anyway, he basically is just, he feels that when he listens to the Radio 4 Breakfast show, as literally nobody refers to it, he often feels that he could perhaps have done a better job than the current incumbents. I'm here to tell you, Ed, I'm not sure that's true.

I think it's an unwise thing to say, really. Do you listen back to programmes and think you could do a better job? Yes, I listen to Woman's Hour a lot and I often think... So I shouldn't be mean to Ed. back to programmes and think you could do a better job. Yes, I listen to Woman's Hour a lot, and I often think... No, I do. So I shouldn't be mean to Ed. No, because I think, do you know, I think that's the... I think the truth is broadcasters are cranks and narcissists, and I think that's probably what every single broadcaster thinks.

Quite possibly. Yeah. One of the greatest broadcasters of all time had a big announcement to make today. Yes, Radio 2's Ken Bruce. Yeah, we've met the Brucey, haven't we? Yeah, we're the Brewster. We did an interview with him back in a previous life.

He was one of the loveliest guests we had on that previous existence. There are only really two good Brewsters. Well, Robert, the, Springsteen and Ken. Okay, so you've got three good Brewsters there. Oh, and Fiona. Yeah. What a family. Don't forget Fifi LaBruce.

Tell you what. But I think we would be amongst millions of people wanting to wish Ken well, just genuinely wanting to wish him well. He's such a nice man. And do you remember in the podcast, we asked him what the other Ken Bruce would have been if he hadn't got his break in radio.

What was it? He would have been a car mechanic. He would have worked in the cars. Oh, that's right. And he would have been lovely doing that. But thank God he went into broadcasting. Because as you said many times, he makes it look effortless. And it's not bringing three hours of joy out of absolutely nothing.

Because he never has a guest. He has Popmaster, but he doesn't have a guest. No. I can just see him now. You've mentioned that. I can see him coming out from under a car wiping his hands with an oily rag. He wouldn't rip you off over your carburettor, would he?

He'd fit in one of those spoilers. I could have a spoiler on my Mini. A lot of people love it. This one comes from Ben. We had a spiky guest today, didn't we? Do you want to explain who it was? Well, it was a reverend. And we were talking about Penny Mordaunt,

who's the Tory MP, leader of the House of Commons, had written to the Church of England. Has she written to the General Synod? Who had she written to? She'd written to her local bishop in the Church of England. Good for her. She'd written to her local bishop just saying, come along now, perhaps you could introduce gay marriage

in the Church of England. I'm always surprised that you can't have a gay marriage in the Church of England. I'm always surprised that you can't have a gay wedding in the Church of England. Can we just be honest about this? A lot of gay, there are a lot of gay clergy in the Church of England. And good for them, I say, by the way. I think there've always been a lot of gay people who are attracted to those sorts of roles within the Church of England. And I find it laughable, if I'm honest, that there can't be gay weddings. I just don't get it. Yeah, and what I found extraordinary, which was borne out with our conversation today,

is the way that you seem to be unable to have a rational and thoughtful conversation with someone who opposes a view of equality. I find in 2023 that I struggle with that. So we were trying to say today in our interview that we felt that denying exactly the same rights to gay people within the church was something that went against the path of progress. to gay people within the church was something that went against the path of progress. And, you know, we had quite a lot of flack from some people accusing us of liberal views in a kind of, you know, using the term liberal in a nasty way of being kind of snidey, of being arrogant. But I think when it becomes about equality, it's none of those things. That's not what informs the argument. about equality it's none of those things that's not what informs the argument it's if i had one child who was gay and one child who was not gay it would break my heart that they couldn't follow

the same path in life i just wouldn't understand it and so but but i find it very difficult to for that to just be a consistently denied point of view, it's just denied by people who believe that these scriptures inform the choice. Because there are other churches using the same scriptures to come to a very different conclusion. Yes. I think long term it's not going to help the Church of England if they stick to this.

But then the guest we had made the point that the more conservative the church, the greater the chance that their congregation would have grown over the last, I think he said over the last couple of decades. And that, I don't know, perhaps tells you something about people who've suddenly taken up religion. Or whether it tells you that perhaps by attaching yourself to some views the likes of us might find unpalatable, you will find an audience. I don't know. I'd like a breakdown of those.

Well, yes, I mean, basically, I just find it, I just don't think it's very kind to say to gay people that they can't get married in church. And I sort of thought, loosely speaking, that Christianity was about kindness. But maybe not. Anyway, this is from Ben. I was sorry to hear your interview with the Church of England priest. I've been ordained for seven years in the C of E and my heart sank. Priests should be good listeners. And he wasn't.

That's actually a very good point, Ben. I'm 28 and I also work full-time while covering vacant parishes and so with a foot in the church and a foot in the secular world and I'm astounded that we still have priests who are so shut off to our society. Faith should be a lens as we collide scripture, tradition, reason and culture. If we lean too much in one direction, we're only pushing our own ego, our own anxieties and our fragility. Personally, I feel that theology is rooted in scripture, tradition, reason and culture in equal measure. And there is so much theological support for same sex marriage.

As and when we get there, I will rejoice in taking my first same sex marriage. Best wishes, says Ben. Thank you, Ben. And we do take all points of view, and I absolutely get that some people are going to listen to Fee and I and think, well, those two lentil-scoffing guardianistas are always going to think that way. But maybe life has just led us down this path of trying to be more understanding, because as you get older, you encounter more difference and you encounter more challenges and you're less certain about stuff. And I hope that you've just got more sympathy for everybody. Yeah, I agree. There's another argument to be had as well, just about, you know, the belief in marriage, though, isn't there? isn't there?

What was that noise? Well, at one point, our reverend guest suggested, well, he did say that marriage was the bedrock of Western civilization. Well, you and I are doomed then. Well, we're doomed. I know some people who are brilliantly happily married and they've had challenges, but they've stuck together through thick and thin and I think they'll always be together and I think it's brilliant.

But to suggest that people who've fallen by the wayside for one reason or another are, as you say, doomed, I think is not very 21st century, is it? No. Shall we talk about food? Are we on safe territory? Is this Fred Cyriac? Yep, if we talk about some vegetable proteins.

I think so. I'm not sure that we are, actually. I think that we might get some hate mail about this too. It's simply a fact that the French know much more about food. You don't have to read this. I wrote the script. I was going to say, is it a fact, Jane? So Fred Sirio, who is ace maitre d' on Channel 4's hit show First Dates, was our guest on the programme today. And he was, I don't think he'd mind us saying, he was doing a turn for DOPSU, which is a vegetable protein product. And he was on to talk about that very important connection between food and relationships.

And the vegetable protein product, the people had done a bit of a survey about how that influences who you choose. And there were some interesting findings about how people might ditch the other person if they became vegetarian. Yeah, but if you like... Beef dripping. Beef dripping, that's it. If you like beef dripping and you eat a lot of kebabs last thing at night,

chances are you're not going to be attracted to a partner who's an I'm-not-a-sausage sausage fan. No, I'm not a pork. Well, I think that's quite an interesting thing that somebody should put on the dating apps. So instead of saying, you know, do you like golf? And long country walks is quite a thing. Sunday lunch in a pub, that's another thing.

Does anybody ever like really short country walks? No, they don't. Or just stopping off at the drive-thru on a Sunday when I'm a bit hungover. They don't really do that. But you could do a great big list of foodstuffs and then you could base the love of your life, the choice for a marriage in a church or not a church, you could base that on whether you like a vegetable protein.

Shall we get to the interview? Well, you know, it's like turn left for bacon, turn right for lard. No, lentil. Let's bring in Fred. Just how important are our food preferences when it comes to the search for love? That was the question. Here's Fred with the answer. Well, I think eating habits are changing and the way people eat is changing.

And there's been this research by DOPSU about our preferred food. And in fact, it turns out that 27% of people surveyed are flexitarian, identifying as flexitarian, meaning they eat fish, meat, and meat-based products. And it is even more prevalent for young people, 18 to 24 years old, which is no surprise because they are the ones who are going to inherit the planet. They are the ones who are conscious about climate change, but also about eating habits to ensure, you know, they eat healthy and they're very conscious about what they put in their bodies.

And what happened as a result is that more and more people now, you know, you go on a date, for example, or you meet people and, you know, the question very now, you know, you go on a date, for example, and, or you meet people, and, you know, the question very often, you know, is, you know, if you're a vegan or vegetarian, or, you know, and suddenly, are you compatible with somebody who eats meat all the time, or like meat more than you? And, you know, it seems like some people find it's incompatible, which I find quite interesting, actually, because there are so many other reasons that people may not be compatible with others for. But, you know, at the end of the day, relationships are, you know, by nature difficult. And it's about love. It's about respect. And it's about living in harmony together.

And there are so many things that that that are different between two individuals and you can never find somebody who's your perfect match that who is exactly like you and that's that's the beauty and that's that's that's that's that's what's the fun about relationship because you've got to find a way through you know you're never kind of there where you are totally uh in harmony with each other you always have to adapt to the other. It goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway, that long after sex has gone, let's face it, it is inclined to wither away a little bit, you might have food.

And if you don't like the same food, then it can be really difficult, can't it? Well, you could argue that about so many different things. At the end of the day is, can you be together? Can you stand the sight of each other that that's what the bottom line is you know and um i think that we all have differences and and and food is is i mean is very important to me of course you know i i you know this is how i earn a living because of food you know and but you know the being brought up the way i was brought up

you know eating french food i didn't have chinese until I was 16 or mozzarella until I was 18, because you would eat French and you would eat only the traditional recipe that you were brought up with. And, you know, now, for example, you know, you know, then you have all these plant based diet that have come on the market. And, you know, I have tried it. I am being converted because you can't be doing the same thing that you were doing all your life. You know, I mean, we live in a country in the UK, you know, that's such diversity. And I think it's important to just try new things

and do things differently. Otherwise, you are missing out on beautiful ingredients and style of cooking and different experiences that you can have. Now, how much is French cuisine changing to reflect those modern tastes, Fred? Because I think, and this may be a stereotype, I apologise in advance, but I think when we think of French cuisine, we think of something very certain and quite often very meat-based. So this kind of wild, exciting plethora of plant-based meals, are they being embraced in France? I mean, look, this is preconceived ideas.

Like every single French person eats for two hours for lunchtime, and they all can cook. Oh, no, don't spoil our dreams, Fred. Let me tell you a story. My mum can cook better than most chefs I know. When it comes to her sister, my auntie, she can't cook an egg. And when we were boys with my brother and we used to go to my auntie to stay the weekend, we didn't like it because we knew it was going to be a disaster from a culinary perspective because she couldn't cook and she still can't. And they have

the same parents, they were brought up in the same way and she can't do it. And my mom can cook. But she taught herself. So about your question, for example, about French, a lot of the things that you're saying, you know, comes from these preconceived ideas, these this perception that we have. But is it a perception or is it the truth? That's what you have to to question yourself, actually, and ask the question. But, for example, to answer your question, I can only tell you about what I do. Like, for example, the other day, I was cooking this recipe with dobsu using the no-duck dobsu substitute. And what I did is I made a salad niçoise, which was basically a crossover between a salad niçoise and a salad périgourdine. So salad niçoise, for people who don't know, it's a salad from the south of France with lettuce and green beans and tuna and boiled egg. And the Salad Périgourdine is also lettuce and walnut and duck and pâté and gizzard and stuff like that. But I used the no-duck

substitute and basically add a combined, you know, creative sort of inspiration between these two salads to make my own salad. And it was delicious. Next time I make it, I'm going to make it with goat cheese, which is, again, a slight change, but it's still going within the southwest of France, close to the Salad Périgordine, and have a little bit of goat cheese in the oven for five, six minutes, melt it, and add it to my salad and put it on top of my lettuce. You did say, I think you said gizzards at some point there, Fred. Can you remind us, what is it? It's a chicken gizzard. Is that what's normally served? Yeah, chicken or duck. It's basically an organ and you can cook it.

You confit, basically you cook it in the own fat of the chicken, for example, or the duck. And then you fry them, you um and then you fry them you slice them and you fry them it's delicious it's very rich especially when it's duck or goose gizzard it's really rich very fatty it's not something you want to eat every day but uh from time to time yeah it's delicious right well that's not going to catch on with the the plant folks is it that one no but you know i think at the end of the day it's not about imposing one's way or or or another it's just being able to respect the others for what they do when it's a case of if the difference so you know for me you know i love eating meat i love eating fish

and from time to time i eat this plant-based you know uh product from top soup because i like them and because it's a nice alternative and it's a nice change. And yeah, why not? One of the statistics, Fred, that really surprised me actually in this campaign is that 20% of 16 to 24-year-olds say they would end a relationship if their partner turned vegan. That seems incredibly harsh. Hard on vegans. I thought it would be the other way around, really.

I mean, I think it's more offensive, isn't it, to non-meat eaters sometimes when somebody does want to, you know, cook up a gizzard. Were you surprised by that? No, because, you know, people are extreme and people make really strange decisions at time or they have strange opinions. And that's just the way of the world. This is human nature and there's nothing you can do about that. So what can I say? You know, this is people's opinion and this is what they think they would do. It may be that they wouldn't do that in real life, but the fact that they actually do it, they actually say it means it goes a long way.

They probably would do it. Yeah, I think you're better off out of that relationship anyway if someone's going to ditch you just because you'd like some cheese instead of cheese. Could we talk a tiny bit about some of your other work, please, Fred? The first date's phenomenon. I mean, that is just what a glorious job that must be, introducing people to each other in the search for love. Can you tell when someone comes into a restaurant whether it's going to be a good night for them? Yeah, I mean, look, you can, you know, when the first person comes and you get a sense of the energy and the vibe of these people and then the second person and you've got a straight away a sense of whether this is going to match or not. and you've got a straightaway sense of whether this is going to match or not. But it's not until really you see them together and you see that initial reaction,

that initial interaction between the two of them, you know, the eye contact, the smile, the way the body language, the posture, the facial expression, the way they touch their hair, the way they giggle or not, and how they, you know, you can feel that they are just melting on the spot there. And when this happens, straight away, this is going to work. At the time, it could be a slow burner. Some people, they like what they see and they would like to go straight in, but they are a bit more cautious. Yeah, I was going to ask actually. And take more time, you know?

Yeah, the nerves. I mean, going on a first date is such a nerve-wracking thing, isn't it? And you've got cameras. Presumably they're quite well hidden. They're not, you know... Very well hidden. You wouldn't know they're there. Yes, okay.

Okay, so that's going to help. But are some couples just actually too nervous to really even strike up a conversation with each other? Yeah, some couples are nervous. Some people are more nervous than others for various reasons. It may be their history. It may be their upbringing. with each other? Yeah, some couples are nervous. Some people are more nervous than others for various reasons. It may be their history.

It may be their upbringing. It may be some bad experiences or baggage of life. It's just life. Life has a way to embolden you. But at the same time, if you're going on a date and you're going to meet somebody, you are exposed.

And this is maybe some people who are a bit shy and lack confidence. It's difficult for them because you're exposed. You have to make conversation. You have to talk about yourself. You have to be intimate. And it's not easy for everybody that. The only thing, though, I would say is whether it's easy or not, this is just a prerequisite. You've got to go through that. You've got to do it. And hopefully, you know, if you are like this, what I would say is just be upfront and say, you know, I'm shy or I lack confidence or I'm a bit worried about today. I'm afraid to say the wrong things. I'm afraid you're not going to like me.

And just say it, you know, just come clean and explain how you feel. And hopefully you have somebody in front of you who are going to be sympathetic and who's going to make you feel at ease. And suddenly everything is going to be much easier. What's your approach to the couples Fred? Are you a sort of concerned uncle or a kind of worried paternal figure? How does it feel to you? I take everybody for what they are and who they are and I adapt to what they are and I'm there you know I adapt to what they are. And I'm there, you know, I'm there to meet them, but I make sure that they feel welcome. So that is a universal welcome.

I think it's a case of eye contact, a warm smile, making people feel, yeah, that's what I do. The only thing I want to do is be here and wait for you to arrive in this restaurant. That's my job and that's what I'm here to do. And once you are going through that door, everything is going to be smooth and I'm going to be looking after you. So they've got to feel that. But then obviously this is what I'm sending to do. And once you are going through that door, everything is going to be smooth and I'm going to

be looking after you. So they've got to feel that. But then obviously, this is what I'm sending to them, what they send to me, whether they say it or whether I can sense it, because again, it's the body language. It's the thing they tell me without actually talking, without speaking, without telling me anything. You know, this is a vibe that you get it's about adapting to that vibe and making sure that people again they have to feel that there is somebody who's on their side we are batting from the same side you know we are we are on the same team and and i understand them it's making them feel that i understand what they are going through and because they have seen me on other dates on television and and they know the of person that I am, they know that they can trust me.

I'm there to ensure that the experience is smooth and that they have a good time. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not about humiliating anybody, is it? Oh, no. Oh, no. You know, the thing is, it took me a long time to decide whether I wanted to do first dates or not because i didn't know the show you know because working in restaurant you work under all the hours under the sun and i was just i didn't have the time to watch tv and i didn't know what it was so i had to watch it i had to go and meet the team and i wanted to be i was very clear with them i said what kind of show is it you know i wanted to know their intentions and how we were going to make this show and how we were going to make the people feel,

the people who were going to come, the daters on the show. And I wasn't desperate to be on television. I wanted to be on it, but only if it was going to be a feel-good show, something that I can be proud of and I can show my kids. And I can say, you see, I'm doing that. I say, yeah, that's good. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. You see, I'm doing that. I say, yeah, that's good.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. We're talking to Fred Siriu. You say it different. Siriax. I thought his name was Siriax. I thought you didn't pronounce the X at the end. Siriu. Oh, well, whatever. We're talking to... We can't agree on anything today, can we?

He's maitre d'. Well, if we were gay and we wanted to be together, we couldn't marry in a Church of England. So there we go. But we're certainly rowing like a couple who are trying to set up a gay wedding in the Church of England and being knocked back. We asked him if everybody in the First Dates restaurant is actually on a first date or if some of them are just cheeky normal people. Well, we have people who, because you have to agree to be filmed, of course, you know, and so you have the people who agree to be filmed, want to come on a first date,

and we have also what we call the background daters, the people who don't want to be filmed, but they want to be on the show and they want to have that experience. So they feel less pressure and they come on a date as well, and, you know, they feel excited, you know. So it's a really good atmosphere

because this is the only restaurant in the world, I mean, they feel excited, you know. So it's a really good atmosphere because this is the only restaurant in the world, I mean, in the UK because we have other first-stage restaurants around the world, but the only restaurant in the world where the only purpose for coming to that restaurant is finding love. So it's a very special, very specific type of restaurant. You know, other restaurants, people go for business, they're from, you know, their family gathering for celebration, this and that, you name it, you know, people do it in the restaurant. But in this restaurant, it's only with the purpose of finding love. Okay, so the food, the menu is necessarily different because of the restaurant's

purpose? No, the menu is a menu that's designed to cater to a wide range of people to make sure that everybody's going to find something to eat. We have of course also plant-based options for people who are vegan or vegetarian and um more and more people are ordering these dishes i mean you know long gone are the days where um you would go to a restaurant and you would be a vegetarian and that would happen you know when i first came in the uk in the 90s you know people sound vegetarian and they would get for example a tomato on a plate which is not even cut and you just think i mean how insulting and uh uh terrible for somebody in the hospitality business in the restaurant business to do that to a customer and to make them feel this way so i think that the days of that uh uh whole tomato like that being plumped on the plate like that,

out of disdain by the chef because he can't stand them and he thinks this is the way to be, I think these days are long gone, thank God. Yeah, although sometimes I think we've gone full circle Fred and there probably is a restaurant in East London somewhere where they do just put a tomato on a plate and charge 25 quid and their customers are delighted. Final question about the first date. Do you ever have to intervene if a date is going, you know, quite, quite badly and, you know, advise a person to maybe just leave? No, I've never advised anybody to leave. You know, I mean, sometimes I intervene, you know, it depends on the date, it depends on the circumstances. But, you know, I mean, sometimes I intervene, you know, it depends on the date, it depends on

the circumstances. But, you know, I cannot leave the life of people for people. I can be, I can put myself, I can emphasize, but I can't leave the situation for them. So sometimes, you know, you want to say something, but actually, it's better to say nothing, you know, and other time it's better to say something and I do. So it's a question of judging the situation at its own merit for what it is and just just going for it, really. The one thing with me, I'm going to be genuine and I'm going to have the best interest of that person at heart. You know, it's not about me. It's not about the show. It's about that person and what they like or what I think they like. You know, so it's a genuine, genuine advice coming from the heart. There's not much you don't know about hospitality, Fred.

So how do I know when I've walked into a really good restaurant? Well, the first thing for me is you've got to see, smile and say hello to people before they see, smile, say hello to you. That's fundamental. It's the welcome. This is where it all starts. The other thing also where it starts it's about what i call the first line of defense it's about the cleanliness and the appearance of the restaurant the way it makes you feel and you think oh my god somebody has taken the time to clean

that door to clean the toilets to make sure that whatever you touch you know when you took when you're thinking about luxury luxury is is it's something that everybody should be able to experience but luxury in a restaurant whether you're at a roadside cafe or the rich is cleanliness basically you can touch anything any surfaces anywhere and you know you can eat off that surface and you know that for example the tables have been laid with care and you know that somebody's paying attention because they care about what they do but it's about the way that things will come without you asking.

And a restaurant that's well run, for example, you know, where you can see the front of our staff, you know, running around doing their job effortlessly. A bit like when you're watching a beautiful football match, you know, like whether it's in the World Cup or the Premier League or whatever, where you can see the players passing the ball and sending us a goal. And you think, oh my God, how did they do that? It seems so easy.

And that's what you see when you see a beautiful restaurant with a great buzz, a great atmosphere, where people are smiling. You know, sometimes you are in a restaurant, you eat something, and you want to catch the attention of a waiter. You look up, and somebody is looking at you. They haven't been staring. They haven't been spying. But they are there because this is what they are there for.

And they are looking after the section. Let's say there because this is what they are there for. And they are looking after the section that says eight, ten tables, six tables. But this is what they do. And you have a system in place where everybody's in position, everybody's in their station and they know the job that they have to do. Because if you're not in your position, if you're not in a station, you can't deliver the service. If again, also, you don't have enough staff, you can't deliver the service. But if your promise to the customer before they come in is that you're going to deliver that amazing experience and you don't have enough staff or your system is not working and there's nobody at reception to greet you and meet you. You know, can you imagine going to a restaurant and there's

nobody to meet you and greet you? And you're like, my God, you know, you're failing at the first hurdle here. So let's just make sure that we wow the customers from the word go. And it starts with that welcome and it starts with the cleanliness. That's fundamental. But I could talk about restaurants all day. I could talk about service all day. Do you know what I mean? So this is something I don't get bored about. I don't get bored about talking about restaurants because it's a passion. It's something I've done since I'm 16 years old, you know, and it's something that my parents taught me that comes from the work that they were doing as nurses in the local hospital. It was all about the patient care and about being able to put yourself in the patient's shoes to deliver the best care that you can for your patient. And that's what it's about. And that's what my philosophy, if you like, and the way of working in hospitality comes from because of all the

conversation that I heard my parents talking about when I was a boy telling me about the work that they were doing and the kind of teamwork and the kind of values and qualities that you needed to have to deliver that amazing experience because one day it will be you will be a patient. And if you can't deliver it today for somebody else then don't expect somebody to deliver it to you or to deliver it to your parents when they're going to be in hospital so you know we talk about everybody talks about i love great service and everything like that but okay so if you like it whatever you do whatever your job is you've got to be good at what you do you've got to perform you've got to deliver you've

got to be the best that you can do because the quality that you deliver is an inspiration for others to do the same thing in their own field of work. Do you see what I mean? Yes, absolutely. What would your guilty pleasure be, Fred, in terms of food? If you were left to your own devices, nobody was looking, nobody was judging, what is it that you would go to?

Oh, I mean, nothing is guilty in food i can't be guilty to be eating food oh well it that's no that's good to hear i think i'm right in saying that my uh my co-pilot's guilty pleasure is to just eat whole chunks of white bread just ripped off the loaf with that butter that's got um salted oh yeah now you're talking that's lovely that's french salted butter yeah of course you can't go wrong with that so what would you go wrong with that oh well i could do with that i mean the thing is is what is it that i don't like i don't have you know like oh let's say i'm gonna do i mean i love oysters i could have 24 36 oysters no problem no problem. No problemo. But would I feel guilty about it?

No. Would I? No, no, I just would do it. You know, I just would indulge. See, I need a whole brie and I would feel guilty. That's obviously worse. Do the French still laugh at us for our cuisine or lack of it? Of course. Of course. Just like you laugh at the French for other reasons.

We never laughed at the French. No, of course not. Fred Siriu, who entertained us delightfully. And we were glad to meet him, weren't we? I love first dates. Absolutely love first dates. I get terribly upset in the end bit. I don't think I've ever seen a whole episode. Oh, my goodness. So they do, after the credits,

they do who actually stuck together and what happened afterwards. And we get so upset when nobody's actually managed to stay together. Oh, dear, that's a shame. Are you tuning in to this season's Love Island or not bothering? No, I don't think so, because I'm still behind on Happy Valley.

And I know the two things are different. Well, there's a cracking end to episode three of Happy Valley. I'll say that. Okay, please don't tell me

anything else. I'm having to watch it in tiny kind of 15 minute bursts because I do find it this time around just, I think it's because

I know it's the final, final series. I'm just a bit worried. Oh, First Dates has reminded me of Harry and Meghan's first date. That's where I'm at in the book, still going through it. I will finish it, I think.

And it's quite an illuminating section where they meet at Soho House in London. In fact, you and I have been there, actually. But this private room they talk about, I've never been in there. Anyway, that's where they go. And there's a breathless paragraph in which Harry says that it was a wonderful evening. And what was so fascinating about it was that he got to hear all about Meghan's achievements. And there's just so many. And I wonder whether this is where I've been going wrong. Perhaps my love life would improve

beyond all measure if I just listed all my achievements because she goes on about being a model an actor a philanthropist a lifestyle guru and he just he can't get his head around the wonders of this woman and how much stuff she's done well I think he sounds like a very lovely patient man because quite often when it's the other way around and you're bombarded like pebble dashed yes with male achievement. Some women can find that frustrating. Well, Harry was captivated. Well, and they're still very happy together.

We shouldn't deny the land. If I couldn't bear it, if after all this... Don't even say it. No, I don't want to. Did they discuss their favourite foods and whether they're both flexitarian? Have they put that detail in the book? They were so giddy. This I mean, this is where I realise I have probably possibly never been in love in my life,

that the food was delivered but they didn't eat it. That's never going to happen to you. Apparently they ordered some burgers and they just didn't bother and I'm thinking, what, not even the chips? Oh, my God. Oh, dear. even the chips oh dear if music be the food of love order a happy meal drum on i know um oh gosh that's put me i'd have a double i'd have a chocolate shake oh no don't start this because when i had to do the podcast yesterday on my own, the only thing I could think about was food.

I was just really hungry. All by myself. Because when you're single heading, there's no time for a snack. Literally all you care about. Right, OK, well I'm back anyway. She's back. So tomorrow's big guest, and we're really looking forward actually to this is the actor Jason Watkins who has got some very important things to say actually about the importance of bereavement education

on the school, on the national curriculum. So that's inspired by the absolutely tragic death of his very small daughter. I think she was two and she died of sepsis back in 2011 but I'm sure it feels like yesterday to Jason. So he will be talking to us tomorrow. That's one of those interviews that you might think oh I'll give that a swerve because it sounds so painful but don't because I always think if a parent is brave enough to talk about their beautiful

wonderful child having died it's it's for a reason it's for a reason. It's for a reason. And those warning signs of sepsis are so often just not understood. And we've seen it a lot in the strep A cases, haven't we? So, you know, don't give it a swerve. You know, just stay with it and we will all learn something from it. Okay, so that is tomorrow and I hope you can join us then.

You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can. Monday to Thursday, three till five on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon. Goodbye.