Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I'm suddenly thinking of an Umpapa Band (with Joan Armatrading)

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

This episode is for lady-things! Lady pilots, lady hobbies, lady wees. There's also some day-time TV chat, advent calendar pondering, and some explicit language... enjoy! Plus, singer-songwriter Joan Armatrading discusses her upcoming album. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Because I really think I'll keep my puritanical views on daytime television. Yeah, that's a worry, isn't it? Unless there's a state occasion. Completely different. And I will widen that. Well, Mofi, that's fiction, innit? That is fiction. at John Lewis? No, as well as all the great bedding, kitchen kits, beauty from brands that we all know and love, you can pick up cosy cashmere, Christmas decorations and even essentials for your pet. How about a new collar for Nancy? Well, and some sparkly pieces to

wear to all those festive get-togethers. Well, quite. They even do money too, Jane. They really do have it all. At John Lewis Money, in-house experts and trusted partners work together to offer money products for real life. From the John Lewis Partnership credit card to insurance and travel money, they can help you think outside the bank. To find out more, search John Lewis Partnership credit card. That's the spirit. Credit subject to status. 18 plus years. UK residents. TNCs apply. John Lewis PLC is a credit broker. New Day Limited is the lender. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fi is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. John Lewis PLC is a credit broker, New Day Limited is the lender.

This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well it's crossed my mind, tell me a bit more about it. Well with Norwegian Cruise Line you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go local shore excursions as well as an immersive program of onboard experiences. I can't lie I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship. Well Jane, their fleet has so many unique

bars, lounges and restaurants. They also have fantastic entertainment, shows, facilities on board. You wouldn't be short of things to do. Plan ahead to discover your dream Europe 2025 cruise. It's certainly one way to beat the winter blues. Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information call 0333 222 6513. Contact your travel agent or visit ncl.com. Here we are, it's Wednesday in the land of off air and thank you very much for being a part of it. Fee is back, you alright? Yes. Good. It was a family funeral yesterday for my lovely Auntie Sue, Jane. And she was lovely, actually, and it was one of those funerals where the...

It was... We were at a crematorium, but the... I don't know what the right term for that official is. But anyway, the lovely guy, Raymond, who was leading... Was he a celebrant? Yes, I think so, thank you. the lovely guy Raymond who was leading. Was he a celebrant? Yes, I think so, thank you. He did a very fine job and I think everybody actually learnt something about Sue's life that we didn't know.

So there were lots of people there from all parts of her life and I think that it was really beautifully done, really beautifully done. And she had had an amazing life, Jo, she was an air stewardess right at the height of the glamour when air travel took off. Yes, as it did. It's almost impossible to find another way of saying that. But she worked for Air Canada and then for BOAC and then for British Airways. And actually the last time that I saw her, she told me this fantastic story about one time when she was working for BOAC, she had broken her toe when she was off the rotor, so she turned up in a pair of very smart, sensible, flat shoes,

because she had a broken toe, and her boss wouldn't let her get on the plane, Well, no, because... because she wasn't wearing high heels. Incredible. You know, she had to lose a couple of days' wages, miss the flight, until she could stand up in, you know, had to lose a couple of days wages, miss the flight, until she could stand up in you know crippling high heels again to go and serve a meal. I mean it's so sometimes I think we do have to acknowledge how far we've come actually

and how far we still have to go because there are still airlines who are asking their female staff to wear a heeled shoe, not a high heel. Sue said they had to totter on in stilettos, isn't that absolute madness? It's just crazy isn't it? To go and serve food in a not particularly stable environment. So we were having a laugh about that the last time I saw her. But she'll be much missed. She was a really absolutely beautiful woman.

She had such kind heart. She was tiny. She was even smaller than you woman. She had such kind heart. She was tiny She was even smaller than you and I but she just had the hugest heart So there was a lot a lot of love in the room for her. Thank you for asking. These things can be done so well these days Oh really beautiful and when it's beautifully done and everybody who needs to be there has managed to be there as well Which I think is the wonderful thing as well. It was a really lovely celebration of a great life. Yeah, I mean I do think we've all been to those funerals where the person doing the

service, usually they're not always somebody from a religion, just doesn't know the person who's died at all. Yes and slightly lets everyone down because you're so with them, aren't you? You want them to do it well, you want them to say something of meaning about the person that you're all missing already. And I'm absolutely with you. When it's done rather badly, it's so crunchy, isn't it? It's horrible. Yeah, and it doesn't help with the mourning process at all. And also, I think it's really important just to bring to everybody in the room the course of the

life of the person who's died you know that they weren't always an older person who had perhaps a relatively small life but they were out there doing stuff in the world. No absolutely and and that's what I mean actually about because there were people from all parts of Sue's life there, there was also something that those people learned about the other parts of Sue's life. I mean, my kids have only ever known her as lovely great auntie Sue. So, you know, they learned enormous things about her. And actually, I didn't know that she had lived in Montreal for a while,

which is why she joined Air Canada in the first place before coming back. There we are. No, it sounds really a really good event. why she joined Air Canada in the first place before coming back. So there we are. Yeah. No, it sounds really a really good event. And actually we should we should invite our correspondents on the subject of air travel, whether or not you've ever worked for an airline in whatever capacity it may have been. You could have been a lady pilot. I don't get people's thoughts as well.

We've only just put the lady banker to bed. I know. Let us know. Jane and Fee at times Times. Radio. Now the farmers protest was occupying our minds. It was in the centre of London yesterday. Did you encounter any tractors? No, because well, I mean, the countryside was completely empty. It was empty because they'd all come to London. They'd all gone the other way. I did enjoy the images of Mr. N Farage dressed as a farmer. He's got all the kit, doesn't he? Because one moment he is there

raising his fist in triumph representing the people of Clacton in the United States. That's right. Absolutely what they want. But you tell me he's a farmer now. When he was dressed as one. In what he believed a farmer would wear. So rather pristine looking I think they were mustard colored jumbo cords the inevitable flat cap. Any tweedy bits in between? Oh I'm sure there were some tweedy bits probably that the flat cap was tweed and he had the pristine barber on as well so yeah look who am I to judge? Well you're Jane Garvey.

I'm gonna keep judging. We have had an interesting email from somebody who wants to be anonymous. They say, I'm a probate lawyer in a rural part of Northern England, and I've been dealing with the estates of deceased farmers for over 25 years. I also spend quite a lot of time providing planning advice tips to clients about succession and in order to minimize taxes. I feel that the government figures regarding the number of farms that will be affected just can't be right. I am one probate lawyer and I probably deal with at least five or six deceased estates every year where inheritance tax would be paid if it were not for the current agricultural

property relief. So paying the tax on these farms would be devastating for businesses and definitely result in the sale of farms and expertise being lost as well as livelihoods. Honestly, she says, the majority of my clients are very hardworking. They have a love for the land and the environment and they make very little in the way of income. It's also worth saying farming is dangerous, constant and very hard work.

I've got clients in their 90s still involved in the family farming business, but sadly do not have the requisite number of years left to live to allow them to now gift the land without a tax penalty. It has to be seven years, doesn't it? One of these gentlemen is 98 and has worked for everything he has. He inherited

nothing. His business now employs four family members. I do thank you for that because I think it's really important to hear that side of the story and there are so many, there was, well, when you weren't here yesterday we've got some very strong messages and emails on both sides of the argument and it is very clear there's real vitriol towards the farmers from people who quite ignorantly feel that they have too much a lot. Equally, you know, some of them are affluent and there are these people who just buy land because there are tax advantages. Yes and I know that your friend and great mentor, Jeremy Clarkson, has been challenged.

Not a friend. He's been challenged quite successfully, hasn't he, in an interview about why he bought his farm in the first place. Well, because he said he actually said himself he was interested in the tax advantages of owning land. So why can't somebody clever at the Treasury make that distinction? So why can't there be a way of making sure that farmers whose land has been in a family for generations are exempt from a tax that would cripple them and ruin that continuation and only make people pay if they have bought the land within the last

ten years or whatever. You would think that would be possible. Well, you'd hope it would be. Yeah. I just want to end with our anonymous correspondent who is a probate lawyer. She says, I think the proposed legislation is lazy. With some thought the ordinary so-called farmers, this is to your point, who work every day of the year and long hours in lambing times often surviving on little sleep could be protected. And the wealthy who invest in

land as a tax haven and those who've inherited the land through generations but haven't got their hands dirty pay their fair share." Brilliant. That's right, isn't it? Yes. That's really what people are after. Yeah. And there are so many other cases, aren't there, within our law and within tax where

you're asked to justify how you're making your money. So if you think of other areas of property, you do have to prove that you've lived in a house that you've bought in order to avoid paying capital gains tax. And there are lots of ways and methods that the HMRC do that. So you would have thought that there'd be a way of proving I'm the kind of farmer who actually farms for 365 days a year and I genuinely would not have the money to pay the tax without selling land and therefore diminishing my business. I'm often wrong. Oh darling, I won't have it today. Not at all. Steve says, can I ask the question why is farmland so valuable if the income for farmers

is low? It can only be that the land is attractive for some reason other than ongoing financial return. Currently that extra attraction does appear to be a way to avoid inheritance tax and once that attraction goes the land won't be worth so much and the tax won't be a problem. And seeing as farmers don't want to sell up and would like to keep the farms a family business that shouldn't worry anyone. In the meantime, farmers don't be dense. If you want to avoid inheritance tax when your children take over the farm, pass it on to them when you can still reasonably expect to live for more than seven years. That's the planning bit isn't it? Yeah, plan for it. Plan for it, yeah. Of course, none of us know whether we've got another seven years in the locker do we? No, but I guess, you know, at

98, you'd be lucky. Yes, you would. Yeah, you really would. We've been talking, oh yesterday we mentioned it, and the day before we were talking about a rare bird. We've been talking about bird watching. Rachel says, I was amused to hear you discussing the rare bird turning up this week. That was the scarlet tannerger. I hope I pronounced that right in Halifax. My dad is a fanatical bird watcher and it very much dominated our lives. Now the bird watchers are all on Twitter. Yeah.

But in the 90s, he had pager, like a doctor would have, and he'd subscribe to various birdnet alert things. Here are some ridiculous things that happened to me in my childhood, she says. He'd taken me and my brother to visit our granddad, which was about a 10 minute drive from home, and on the way back the pager beeped. It was a mega alert that had its very own insistent ring tone. I read the message out and Dad immediately did a U-turn and we ended up in the Lake District. Gosh, it's a good three hour drive away.

He gave us a fiver to get some food from the spa and call Mum with the change to explain why we weren't at home. This is because there'd been a bird's sight. On another occasion, whilst towing the caravan home from holiday, there was another mega alert. You can't go very fast with a caravan, it's unacceptable. So he left it, and my mum, brother and me, by the side of the road, somewhere in Lincolnshire, and drove off without even saying where he was going or how long he was likely to be.

After a couple of hours we were quite thirsty. The only liquids in the caravan was Stella Artois and Ribena. So mum gave me and my brother snake bites. We were ten and eight at the time. Finally, on holiday in Spain there was a rare type of vulture that my dad wanted to see. He paid me and my brother a fiver each to lie down on some rocks pretending to be dead. Got this man! Oh my word! Until the said vultures started to circle near us. We were lying there for quite a while but they did eventually come to investigate. I'm sorry it's a long email she says. I just wanted to make the point bird watching's ridiculous and it's an antisocial hobby.

And I see the lack of toilets as protecting womankind from its clutches. Okay, Rachel, you've had some pretty extreme experiences there. She has, hasn't she? Very much so. Your dad is obviously more than keen as a birdwatcher. And I think judging from your anecdotes that he certainly prioritised his interest in birdwatching. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry but imagine how livid you'd be if you were left in a lay-by

with a couple of cans of Stella to recalcitrant children and you'd be entitled to be recalcitrant with no idea when you were going to be picked up again. Oh for heaven's sake. I'm quite shocked. Rachel, we send you our very best and when I think when merchandising is back in stock, you're definitely going to go on the list. Yeah, for that. Yep.

Just for the experience being left in the caravan, it was in rural Lincolnshire. I've nothing, nothing wrong with Lincolnshire. No, but I think also being made to lie on a rock so a vulture will come closer to you, that's not a particularly pleasant childhood memory isn't it? Funny-ish in an anecdote but at the time just cruel. It is, it's not often the case, but it does happen when the hobby of either parent just dominates an entire household and I am going to stick my neck out here and say it's more likely to be the obsessive interest of the

dad that can lead to, shall we say, well, as we can hear, holidays being curtailed, arrangements being rearranged. Well let's try and find. Yes, let's try and find the woman. Some lady hobbies that have proved to be a little bit intrusive into family life. Are you someone who knits through dinner, paying no attention whatever to your family? But you're on the money there, because my big worry about quilting is that suddenly, during a family event, I'm going to have an idea for a pattern

of material matching another pattern of material. I'm just going to have to go, Jane. At any moment I'm going to have to go. Would you leave your children in a caravan with any snake bite? Yes. Daytime television comes in with Tim in York who says, I picked up on Jane's comment today with regard to the traditional view that daytime TV was only permissible if the program was nonfiction and informative but I'm afraid to say we're both on the money on this one Tim. As in her house World at War met these criteria and when it screened 26 epic weekly episodes in 1973 it became a fixture on Sunday afternoons

in our house. Now I think the weekends are exempt from this. Are they? Yes. Well, I don't know. They're definitely in a different category. I think they're slightly more acceptable. The watching fiction during a weekday daytime is absolutely off the moral scale. I'm afraid it does put you in the dock as far as I'm concerned. It does. It also happened to often coincide with a late lunch on many a Sunday and I recall one day being at the lunch table with my three younger siblings, keeping one eye on the last remaining roast potato whilst also observing American soldiers using flame throws to flush Japanese soldiers out of foxholes in Okinawa. Different times. It's not funny but the way he tells it is. In a similar vein, in 1967, when programs had to be watched at the allotted time, or you missed it for good, the Forsyth Saga garnered a television audience of up to 18 million viewers. However, it screened every Sunday at around 7pm, and as churches at the time realised that they were losing in the popularity stakes, they wisely rescheduled Sunday evening services

earlier so that their parishioners could attend a service and still get back in time for the next thrilling instalment of the saga. Well that's the spirit and it's that kind of amenability that doesn't seem to have continued within the church and the empty pews tell their own tale. They do. They very much do. Libby just wanted to say that she is a newly retired person and she is indulging in watching fiction on TV in the afternoons. What a joy. Now Libby, you are exempt because you are a newly retired

person. And Libby goes on to say, I've too many things recorded to watch them all in the evening. So I've taken to watching in the afternoon. I may even have to watch in the morning. God, grief! That's... Steady! Yeah. Steady girl, steady girl. As I've got all the quiz shows to watch mid-afternoon.

In mitigation if required, I'm only three weeks into retirement so really feeling like I'm on holiday. There is a much more enriching programme of activities planned for December and going forward into 2025. We believe you Libby. But for now excuse me because I'm off to binge watch The Diplomat. Enjoying the show as ever. Is it too early to say happy Christmas? Yes. Come back to us in around about the 18th 19th of December. We'll take good wishes. Until then forget it. Libby's got a lovely sign off, a strong woman looks a challenge in the eye and gives it a wink. Thank you Libby. I think we can back at you.

Absolutely and only three weeks into retirement I think you've no doubt worked very hard over many years. Good luck to you. And I'd like to know what your plans are for next year. Will there be a cruise up or down the Danube? Yes it's a point, isn't it? So what is on the agenda come 2025? And keep us posted. I think that transition must be very difficult. I would do exactly the same thing. I'd just do all of the things that I've been able to do during the daytime. So I'd definitely go and swim when it's not quite so busy.

I'd take the dog for a walk when not everybody else is taking their dog for a walk. That's complicated. Nance has just got to the age, Jane, where she just doesn't really want to engage with people. Do you know what I mean? She's just had enough. Yeah. So she sees a great big pack of dogs and they all come to look at her and have a little bit of a sniff. She's very beautiful.

And she just looks at me with her big eyes and kind of goes, oh, yeah, I know. Not another drinks party. What time's countdown on? Yeah, exactly. Can we go home? So Libby would be with you on the sofa. But then, when does it kick in that your horizon is different? Well, let's go easy on Libby for the time being.

She's got a hectic schedule for 2025. No, but genuinely, I'm very interested. Yeah, no. It's a really interesting time. I am, because yes, I'm interested in the whole business of occupying time mindfully. Yes, because you're quite worried about it. I am, yeah, because I think, God, I will just end up tidying drawers. I don't know whether I really, because I really think I'll keep my puritanical views on daytime television. Yeah, that's a worry, isn't it?

Yes, there's a state occasion, completely different. And I will include, I will widen that. Well, Mofi, that's fiction, innit? That is fiction. I will widen that to include things like the state opening of Parliament. Just once a year. You know what, you will be so there, you'll be watching all of the Parliamentary Committee. It won't be very good for your blood pressure.

It probably won't be very good for your blood pressure. No, it probably won't. Adam says, as a family, we're all heading back to Blighty from Perth for Christmas, albeit our elder son and his girlfriend have organised their own itinerary that includes staying a night with his granny and introducing his girlfriend to her. Now on a recent call, my mother-in-law asked whether it would be okay not to change the sheets for us after our son's visit. There was a slight pause as my wife delicately suggested that the couple may have relations. Granny leaned into the FaceTime call and looked confused and said what? In a manner that mimicked Penelope Keith I can't mimic the great

Penelope so I haven't even attempted it um said my wife you know R E L A etc mummy there's a look that people get there's probably a German word that describes it says Adam when they reach a conclusion without it having to be spelt out the shock on granny's face quickly turned to one of amusement oh she said I hadn't considered that at all do you really think they would in my to be spelt out. The shock on granny's face quickly turned to one of amusement. Oh, she said, I hadn't considered that at all. Do you really think they would in my house? After agreeing that it would be inappropriate to ask, we said we'd strip the bed upon arrival and wash the sheets ourselves. Love to all of you, Adam. Have a safe trip back to the

UK. Hope you have a lovely Christmas. And yes, I think you've reached a very sensible... This isn't an advice show, God help you if you're using it, but I think that's a perfect, perfect compromise. What? That the couple, upon arrival, will strip the sheets recently vacated by son and girlfriend. Okay. I just think there are some places where you can

pretty much guarantee that people don't give in to their romantic desires. That lost. Yeah. I think. Well. Well, I'd like to think. I'd like to think, Fee, but I've been alive a long time now. Okay. Well, I mean, if you're going to send us any kind of email, you know, just bear in mind our sensitivities. Jane Mulcairons is too much for me. Oh, Jane Mulcairons has gone to the top of my Dora's charts because she bought her a cat selection box. A cat selection box, okay. Which we've now put on top of the fridge so Dora doesn't see it.

Okay, is that in time for Christmas? Yeah, well what do you think it's for? I don't know, it just might just be a random gift. I'm not saying Jane Malkarin's got it free, but I think there's a very strong chance she did. I paid good money for Nancy's advent calendar. She's got one, it's got dog treats in it. Has she? Yeah. Okay. The kids were only mildly upset that that had arrived before theirs. Oh god yes, it's that time of year when nearly adult and indeed adult children in my case do start asking questions about their Advent calendar. But you know, so the Advent calendar, it's a rich scene.

There is absolutely no piece of tat that is not in an Advent calendar this year. And I've given in and I've bought the pork scratchings one for a loved family member. I can't do the beauty ones actually, they're just a bit too much because all those little bottles around the house would drive me mad. That's unless we get sponsored by a company that's doing one of those. Obviously in which case we'll affect our fantastic new voices. You know what I mean? But I think that somewhere in every single marketing boardroom meeting somebody at Screwfix is currently saying, do you know what, next year, advent calendar. And that would be quite useful because

you could have different role plugs in, couldn't you, and different size screws. But I'd like to find the most random advent calendar out there. Is there a Screwfix advent calendar, young Eve? Because you can get cheese ones, coffee ones, gin ones, obviously all of the sweetie ones. What about feminine hygiene? Well that would be a good idea, wouldn't it? Yeah. Well it would, but there's not many novelties there in that department.

No, but it'd be useful. And somebody will be thinking about it. Yeah, I guess so. Let's try and find that. Weeing in the countryside is the one that I'm going to end on here. This one comes from Marion who says, regarding the women twitchers needing a pee, I hope they take their wet tissues home with them. I'm tired of coming across tissues on my walks.

I wrote to a British company who make outdoor clothing and suggested they make pockets in their knickers for this purpose, but I think they put my correspondence in the mad old woman section. We had pockets in our knickers at school in the 1960s for our tissues, I think. Regards. Well, Marion Marion it's not a bad idea I'm with you out on the dog walks there are way too many of those kind of tissues emerging from bushes and on sidewalks to use the American terminology I don't know why and that needs to stop and I think that's quite a good idea. Right, Young Eva brings us news of the Halfords Advent Calendar. There you go! Halfords have got an Advent Calendar.

It's got how many stars? Five stars! What kind of things can you get in the Halfords Advent Calendar? What's the biggie on the 24th? You get a bike. Yeah, what do you get on the 24th? That's all that really matters! Spinner handle. Spinner handle. Hang on, let's have a look. She's not somebody like ourselves. Get festive! Get festive! Get festive with our advanced 40 piece, one and a quarter inch socket set. Oh, nothing says Christmas like that.

Advent calendar. Our Halfords Advent socket set and advance calendar is a fun way to give DIY and tool enthusiasts emphasis on the tool during the most magical time of the year. The set comes with a storage case to keep all tools in place and safe. Okay, I mean I don't know why we're laughing but we obviously are. Oh that is fantastic. I tell you what, he'd love it. I mean, he would. He absolutely would. Couple of quickies here. Well, first of all, I met Sandra on the tube this morning. Hello, Sandra, I hope you're listening. She was on her way to work.

She got off at Earl's Court. I can't say what she does. She didn't tell me we didn't have time. Catherine says, I'm one of your American listeners. I am Welsh, but moved here at the age of eight. Now she describes her current situation as somewhat heavy. And I think that probably goes for quite a lot of people living in that part of the world of eight. Now she describes her current situation as somewhat heavy. And I think that probably goes for quite a lot of people living in that part of the world right now. Heavy emotion, she says, I'm managing it by avoiding most news on just focusing on stuff that makes me happy. Right, well, keep, keep,

keep listening. We'll do our very best to keep you in a, on an even keel. I just want to mention Anonymous in Yorkshire who says, very pithily, just wanted to share that going through the menopause combined with trying to sell a house means I'm fraught as fuck. Please send help. Yes Eve, we'll need a beep there. Well done. God you must be and one of those things you'll pass through quicker than the other and good luck with both of them. Can I just say that I like Jame or Kerens very much? I'm just absolutely terrified of her. Just terrified of her. She's such a modern

woman. She's very modern indeed. She had pleather shorts on yesterday. Pleather shorts? Well yeah I mean exactly I'm terrified of her. What the world doesn't need is me and Pleather Shorts. But anyway, I should have put that fashion query to Lady Glen Connock yesterday. Are there any circumstances? For some reason, I'm suddenly thinking of an Oompa-Pah band. Is anybody else? Hello, I'm Holly Mead and with me is Lucy Andrews and we are both from the Money Team at The Times and Sunday Times.

And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively about money and personal finance. Each week we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt, saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish. Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyds Ready-Made Investments. Joan Armatrading holds a massive place of love and affection in so many people's hearts. She started writing songs when she was just 15 in her tea breaks during an office job in Birmingham at a factory that made spirit levels and slide rulers, a job she'd taken in order to support her family.

But landing a role in a production of Hair a couple of years later pushed her into the musical arena for real, and the rest is glorious musical history. She is a million plus selling artist with top 10 hits spanning five decades, and her latest album is released on Friday and is called

How Did This Happen and What Does It Now Mean? How are you this afternoon? I'm very good. I started writing before I was 15. I didn't start writing because I was working at Robur and Chesterman. My mother bought a piano. I think I, like when I was 11, 12, that kind of thing, I was writing little short limericks and I was writing jokes and funny stories and then as soon as my mum bought the piano, I started to write songs. So I tend to say I was writing songs from say 14, but really before then and that's it. I just wanted to correct them. Well happy to be corrected Joan, it's your life. What do you think that very young girl would make of your future success, of her future success?

Well I'm still that very young girl and I would just take it on board. I don't think I'd be any different. You do seem to be, you do seem to be, Joan, a remarkable figure in the music industry because, you know, I've heard you speak before, I've read interviews with you. You just don't seem to have anything like the ego that somebody with your success often has? Do you recognise that about yourself? Oh, I've got an ego. I think I'm a really fantastic songwriter and guitarist and musician. So I have that.

What I don't necessarily have is the look at me part. But I'd say probably a little bit of a big head when it comes to do I think I'm a good songwriter and musician? Yes, absolutely. And you need that. You need to have that confidence to be able to be good. But how does it pan out then if you don't have the hey look at me thing? Because obviously because obviously your songs, they need performing, they benefit from being heard in public, they're beautiful songs. Yeah, I write from observation and when I'm looking at certain things and I can feel the thing that I'm looking at, whether it's people that I know, people that I don't know, but if I'm observing it, I can kind of see what's going on and feel the passion or the frustration or the anger of the thing that I'm looking at from the people that are involved. And

then I try and write from that perspective. So it's generally coming from something real. And when I'm singing it, I need to make you know that it's real. So I need to sing it with conviction. If you look at this, the song that's the single at the moment, which is I'm Not Moving, it has an aggression to it because the thing that I was looking at,

which was a young person who was just having a bit of a meltdown and then he was saying saying I'm not moving and you can't move me and call the police and I'm going to kill everybody and really getting himself into quite a state and I was watching that and it had a lot of aggression so the music has to have aggression to portray that emotion that he was going through and this kind of what am I looking at thing that I was looking at. So you need to put it across. It's no good putting it across and people think oh I don't

really believe that. That's not what you want. You want them to believe it. And tell us a little bit about the new album then. The title is intriguing. How did this happen and what does it now mean? Yeah that's kind of where we are in there. We're at this default position of you can't talk to people in a certain way, you can't be at a certain place, you can't do a certain thing. The compromise of society seems to have just melted. We just don't seem to be able to just treat each other on a level that... You say that, I don't agree, but it's your right to say it. I think this and it's my right to say it. We need to let people

express themselves and be who they want to be. That's good, but don't stop people from commenting on something in a different way to you. So that's kind of one of the places we're at in that situation. Politically, it's a little bit the same. Nobody seems to want to give way. And life is, it's a series of compromises. We talk about being in a free society. You know we're not free, right? You know that, don't you?

We're not free. When we do things, we have to obey certain rules. If you're driving on the left, don't start driving on the right. If you're in a country that says drive on the left, you're going to be had up. And so you've got to, you know, there's certain things that you've got to follow to make it good for everybody. So yeah, that's it. So this is what that title is about. It's about, can we kind of get back onto a bit more of an even keel, where it's all right to be different, it's all right to express yourself, it's all right to say certain things, you know. It's just get back

on a bit more of an even keel and know that you do have to compromise. Is there any part of you though Joan that envies what some people feel is a better freedom for young people just because they have access to their own voice, to amplify their own voice in a way that previous generations don't have? And I know that at some points in your career you've really had to fight against a pretty male-dominated music industry, for example, who didn't want to give you your freedom when you knew as the artist what you wanted. No, I've always had my freedom. I've always been able to express myself in the way that

I want to musically. Nobody's ever stopped me doing the music that I want. I've always written and arranged my songs. Nobody's done that for me. I always know what I want. I don't feel the thing that you've just said. That's, I think I'm supposed to, because maybe at that stage, people would have gone through that, but I didn't. I'm quite a focused person.

I'm quite a know what I want, know where I'm going, know who I am sort of person. So I don't, I don't take on those, those kind of, kind of pressures. You know, if I, when I was, first came into the business and I was playing the guitar, and if there was something I didn't want to, didn't know on the guitar, and I would say to a male guitarist, how do you do that? They'd say, oh no, you need to know this, this isn't this before we could show you this. That was fine, don't show me, I'll sort it out, you know. So you can do things yourself, you don't need everybody to help you with everything. You do, you need help, don't get me wrong. You can't do everything yourself. Literally, you can't do every single thing yourself. But there's a lot you can do for yourself.

And I've always tried to be as self-sufficient as I can be. Without being selfish. But I find that very interesting, Joan, because I think, you know, I'm taking my questions from things that people have written in the past and and I suppose are you saying that that's a narrative that people have wanted to put on you, they've wanted to portray you as a successful woman in a male-dominated industry, dominated at the top, I mean there are some amazing female artists obviously and never more so than now. So have you felt that that's just something that people have wanted you to carry when it just hasn't been the truth at all? I haven't gone through this thing that you've just described. It may have been there, but

I didn't go through it. Nobody tried to suppress my music. If they did, I didn't notice because I was just doing what I was doing. Yeah, well they didn't win, Joan, because you're Joan Armatrady. You're a million selling artist. Can I ask you something that's just in the news at the moment, and I hope you won't mind me asking, did you sing on the original Band Aid single?

No. No, okay. No, so I can't answer any questions about that because I didn't. Okay, would you rather that I didn't ask you a question about Ed Sheeran and his band-aid stance? I like Ed Sheeran, I think he's a really fine musician and a fine songwriter, he's really good. One of the nicest things I ever saw was watching a Glastonbury concert that he was doing and this girl was standing or sitting on her boyfriend I suppose shoulder and she was in absolute heaven so she was young as this

is going back to like 18 and she was in absolute heaven and not crying but all the emotion of I love you Ed was there and there. And I thought, well, that's a fan for life, absolutely. And it's a very strong image that stayed with me because you could see all the love or the I think you're wonderful, I love your songs, I love you, I love how you play, I love that you've got me in this crowd with all these people. It's a wonderful thing to be able to get that kind of emotion out of somebody, you know, it's really nice and so I love that, so I think it's very good. Yeah, it's a little bit of magic isn't it? It really is. We have played during this program, and I'm sorry

that we haven't had time to play it now, but a little montage of some of your best and most loved work and we've also included a bit of Symphony No. 1 which is your foray into classical music. Can we take from the fact that it's Symphony No. 1 that there will be more symphonies coming? Yeah absolutely, yes I plan to write more. The Birmingham Symphony Orchestra came to that concert which was last year November played by the Chinnekay Orchestra and when I wrote that symphony I just wrote it I didn't, nobody asked me to do it I just wanted to write a symphony. But when they,

the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra guys heard that, saw that, then they asked me to write a choral piece for them which I've written and that will be heard next year. So I definitely will be writing more classical pieces. Joan, I'm a trading and you can access her latest album on any available platform, that's what we say, isn't it? On Friday. Thank you. You've been very, very helpful during this edition of the podcast. We're very grateful to her. Yeah. It was lovely to have Joan on and what was, I mean, it's not really relevant, but

it was nearly somebody else who was a guest and that other person who was nearly a guest, such a contrast to Joan. Oh, I think we can say, can't we? Can we say? Vinnie Jones. What a leap. I tell you what, in these celebrity vending machines, one is at B2 and the other is at F7. 100 trillion percent, sister. Thank you to Joan and perhaps Vinnie will meet him at some point.

I tell you what, I'll keep the questions that I use for Joan. He's yet to write a song on par with love and affection, but give him time. He's a man of many talents. That's what I say. Can I just say thank you not just for the emails, but for the quality. They're so beautifully written. We've had some humdingers over the last 24 hours, so we are very, very grateful. And we'll be back tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow. I hope. grateful and we'll be back tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow and then on Friday the Book Club

podcast will drop so thank you for all of your very very thoughtful critiques of our latest Book Club book and then we will start choosing the next one but don't worry we will give that such a long read time because we've got Crimbo in between now and then and nobody has got time to read a book. Okay, I'm not sure. I'm not happy with Crimbo. You're not? It's not as bad as Holly Bob's but it's not... Excellent. Using it every day, kids. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's

the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury film Conclave, directed by Oscar-winning director Edward Berger and in cinemas on November 29th. I've been looking forward to this one for a while. It is based on the best-selling book by Robert Harris which I absolutely loved and it tells the story of one of the world's most secretive and ancient events selecting a new Pope. It follows Cardinal Lawrence played by Ray Fiennes who is tasked with running this covert process and he finds himself at the centre of a

conspiracy and discovers a secret that could shake the very foundation of the church. And this is one you are going to want to see in the cinema. You're going to be on the edge of your seat with all its twists and turns and an ending you never see coming. You really won't. Can I just mention as well the incredible cast as well as Ray Fiennes. You've got Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Isabella Rossellini. It's also got brilliant reviews, critics hailing it as a masterpiece. So it's already got the Oscar and the BAFTA buzz.

Do not miss Conclave, only in cinemas from November the 29th.