Off Air... with Jane and Fi - In the factual sin bin (with Jay Blades)

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Jane and Fi tackle the big questions in this episode: Is Taylor Swift an only child? Where is the dullest place in Europe? And how many more cricket puns do they have left in them? Only one way to find out...Plus, they're joined by furniture restorer and television presenter Jay Blades. Jay Blades will showcase a new generation of makers this weekend at The Pickle Factory in Bermondsey.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think Britney Spears, isn't she? She's got a sister, Asparagus. I think they're on the turn. They really do. Oh, come on. It's a joke. Um... So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Is it on? Is it on? I don't know why I always ask that, because I'm never certain when we've actually moved into podcast mode. We were having a very serious business discussion before the podcast got underway today.

Can I just get started with some more from Beefy? Well, can we just attribute this to Gene? Yes. Who says, what happened to Beefy Botham's book excerpts? I was at school with him and was looking forward to excruciating memories being rekindled. To be honest, Gene, we need to hear your memories. We most certainly do, Gene. We can edit them. We know our journalist's law, but do send.

Don't leave it there. You know the email address. You've used it once already. Well, let's rejoin Beefy. This is a moving extract from Head On, both of the autobiography, although we've been discussing, there was another book by Ian Botham, wasn't there? Which Stig Abel referred to on the Breakfast Programme, because I think

he had read it. It was another autobiographical tome called Don't Tell Kath. Kath being his missus who mustn't know some things he gets up to because he's a minx. And as you know, ladies can sometimes lack a sense of humour. Oh, don't tell her indoors, Jane.

Don't tell her indoors, she'll get mad. Oh, she'll be livid with me. Chase me round the kitchen with a frying pan. I did ask Stig. Hello? I did ask Stig. Speak up. You did ask Stig. I did ask Stig. And? I did ask Stig. Speak up. You did ask Stig.

I did ask Stig. And he said, I don't know anyone who'd have that book. Well, that's a bit rude because we've got both. We've got a book. I actually have one of his books. We're not fighting shy of it. Anyway, I was going to say, Stig was talking the other day about his first ever job as a very, a child journalist

for his local paper. He wrote a review of a novel that Ian Botham put his name to. I don't think he actually wrote it. But it was awful, the book. And Stig's review was, as you'd expect from a very, very clever adolescent reviewing a really bad book by Ian Botham. Was it quite honest? It was very honest.

Do you know what? I would really love to get hold of that review. Shall we ask our colleague-o-friend? Well, we should do. Actually, rather sweetly, I thought Stig's dad had held on to it. Oh, well, that's definitely... Because parents do do that. They occasionally will surprise you

by handing over a box of things they've kept of your highlights. And it's quite sweet when that happens. And Stig's dad had hung on to that. Anyway, that's neither here nor there because we are going to hear a little bit more about the life and times of cricketing legend Ian Botham. And I'm just going to read you a little bit about his life, his married life.

Kath is the lady in question, and she'd been warned in advance that the life of a cricketer's wife is seldom easy. being the wife of a 21 year old ian botham was harder than most can you imagine that 21 i'm not going to comment on this i'm just going to let you read i'm going to sit back and enjoy this i was undoubtedly immature and still approaching life like a single man so focused on my cricket career and so self-centred that Kath often came well down my list of priorities. During our courtship I'd wait for her arrival at the ground

and I'd once been so keen to see her I was invariably the first one changed and out of the dressing room at close of play but now I'd often be in the bar for an hour or two after play had finished and if Kath complained that I was putting my teammates before her, my response was to tell her, you're talking nonsense, Kath.

Now cheer up and get on with it. There we are. And that's very romantic. And I think they're still together. But isn't that him being really honest and chiding himself about his behaviour? I don't think that's him doing a straight bat. No.

I'm not sure either of us can go much further with cricketing analogies but yes, you might well have a point there that he's just being self-aware and acknowledging that perhaps he wasn't entirely fair to her back in the day Yeah, because actually I don't know very many men who do really admit their quite shoddy behaviour towards their partners in their autobiographies. I'll tell you what, coming soon

Fiona Glover's new book, Ian Botham feminist hero and legend. Do you know the terrible thing is that would really sell It probably would actually. So if you and I did a compendium of you know, incredibly suit, previously seen as Neanderthal men and discovered their feminist equal side,

that would sell by the bucket load, Jane. Male allies. Yeah, it would, wouldn't it? No, you're absolutely right. Because we all want to believe that, well, you don't, but most of us want to believe that better times lie ahead i i haven't ruled out that possibility yes you have to be well so long ago great great great great great great great great grandchildren are rebuilding the earth yeah yeah i did once and i think i actually said this i actually said this to either our agent or a publisher i did a i wrote a proposal uh for a book that was a series of letters that people would be able to cut out and send to men in public life because there were just so many of them that were just really annoying me. So it was, you know, it was Dear Boris and stuff like that

and just letting rip. And then there were a couple at the end that you could just fill in your own man that you could send them to. They just detailed how we felt, actually, Jane. And I think I got one response back saying it might be a bit too much. Well, actually, on that note, I've been...

They weren't all damning, though, Jane. No, no, that was the thing. It was literally just like, look at it from our point of view, actually. Would that be okay? Would it be possible for you to see it from our point of view? Our conversation in Britain, certainly in news circles, has been dominated for the last 48 hours by these, I think we're still calling them alleged remarks,

by this Tory donor, Frank Hester, and what he said about black women. And I have to say that if I were a black woman, and neither of us are, the endless repetition of his remarks, I find it deeply upsetting. And I'm not going to use the term triggering because I am not a black woman, but it must be bloody awful to keep on hearing this endlessly repeated and i think it just must be desperately upsetting so i hope it isn't too bad um because it's getting to me and it has no right to get to me if you see what i mean um because i'm just I just think as well the tardiness in calling out the nature of what he said was was not great there wasn't there wasn't room for nuance in what he

said at all and sometimes there is but in that instance there wasn't and and also there are just a lot of other things around Frank Hester that just seemed to point to a man who felt it was okay to say that it wasn't like it came out of the mouth of someone who had never said anything like that before so you had to kind of go oh gosh I wonder whether we've got this in the right context I wonder whether there might be something I mean I don't I completely agree with you I think it was a very baldly racist right from the beginning of the sentence right to the end of the sentence with absolutely no room for argument but yes i think the the 24 hours of he's not racist he's apologized was just deeply painful for us so

incredibly painful for black women yeah i agree i agree but i think that about a lot of things in news jane i mean the constant uh the constant repetition and we've done it of sarah everard's name yeah when talking about a report into the police and wayne cousins you know that must be so painful for people who knew her and loved her you just hear a news bulletin and you know the name of your loved one comes up uh and you know without you know we all feel entitled to use it don't we yes it becomes public property yeah and it's and it's horrible because it it isn't public somebody's much-loved child sister friend whatever uh no it's just awful yeah and pictures as well are very difficult uh so we might spare some time to talk about the photoshopped

picture from um the princess of wales in future episodes but i don't really want to do it now if that's okay it's actually quite telling that we've not had any emails about it. No. Which I do, and I think there's, that's just, I'm just being honest, I don't think we have, have we? Now that might well be that our listeners are the only people in the world who really don't care. They're not just saying they don't care, because a lot of people say they don't care, but they actually do.

They email in to say they don't care. They email furiously in to say how little they care about the endless attention this story in which they're not interested is getting. But it may well be that you're just getting on with your own lives and perhaps you're not entirely gripped by this. I am beginning, well, it wasn't that I was ever unsympathetic towards her. I'm now feeling very sympathetic towards her. There was something a little odd about the fact that the blame for whatever happened was being very firmly attached to her. Or am I just starting?

You see, I'm disappearing down that rabbit hole and I need... Help me out. Take me somewhere else. Well, Jo, I'm just looking forward to the time in the future at which that photo is just used on a photography course and nothing else.

Well, needless to say, I completely lack any ability to alter a photograph. I'd love to see you try. Exactly. The person who learnt to cut and paste in me 18 months ago. And I'm not sure I can remember how to do it. I think, Eve, don't let her near our publicity shots, if that's OK.

This one comes in from Glyn, who says, I enjoyed your chat with dapper comedian Tom Allen. I often wonder what it must be like to be the sibling of a famous person. So I was intrigued to learn that his brother is a Tyler. I recall Coldplay's Chris Martin sister emailing you in the past and have no doubt there must be other celeblings amongst your vast listenership.

Now we haven't heard from Coldplay's Chris Martin sister for a very long time. I hope you're doing alright. Yeah, I hope you're okay. How do the siblings dynamics change once fame comes knocking? Does the fame overshadow every family event what do you buy the famous sibling who has everything for christmas and how does it feel when someone says oh i really can't stand that dot dot dot and do you still put them up on the sofa bed in the conservatory when they visit i suspect there's the markings of a sitcom here bono s globally famous rocker and his sister Bonnie,

who lives in a semi in Slough and works part-time in Screwfix. Hoping for some illuminating replies from listeners if you do read this out. Well, that is a glorious new thread to start. It is. So let's do that. And I think it must be one of the most painful things for somebody in your family to go global

because it does change your place on the planet when you haven't really asked for that to happen and you are forever Coldplay Chris Martin's sister. I'm just thinking, is Taylor Swift an only child? She is, isn't she? Is she? I don't know. Yeah. Okay, right.

Because that would be a living nightmare, wouldn't it, if you were the other member of that family? I think Britney Spears, isn't she? She's got a sister, Asparagus. What? I think they're on the turn. Oh, come on. It's a joke.

I was actually really... I was looking at you with real interest. Oh, I didn't... I'm going to move on seamlessly. Because that's what a professional would do. Rita is... Oh, you've got to learn to laugh, Jane. No, don't.

There's nothing worse than someone who's reluctant to laugh. I think it's a very bad sign in a human being. I laughed out loud the other day at something you said on the radio. I remembered it. It was so rare. I've actually treasured that memory. Stuart and Rita have both emailed about these G-Hicks. I tell you what, I'm so loving my moment in the spotlight. I was talking to a friend this morning.

She regularly goes abroad. And I said, have you got a G-Hick? Fiona, she didn't know what I was talking about. So who does? Is it literally just me? You're the only person on earth. And my friend Lucy. Yeah, you and Lucy, the only people on earth. Proud possessors of a G-Hick card.

Taylor has a brother. She doesn't. Yeah, she does. Well, we never hear. What's he up to? He's a Tyler. No? So, he's an actor. Oh, my God, the poor bloke. Yeah. So I'm so sorry.

I just assume because we've never heard of him. That's terrible, isn't it? 34. Her younger brother, 31, a total sibling. Goals, what? One is a world-famous pop star and the other has carved out a successful career for himself too. Well, not so much.

Not that successful, but sorry. Just being honest. Rita says, I didn't know about the G-HIC. Thank you for highlighting this issue. I did have an e-HIC, which I dug out of my file and it states on the site that you can carry on using this unless it expired before 2021 and mine had so i've just applied for my new ghic and it was very easy i completed the online survey afterwards

and my thoughts were actually that it was almost too easy i think it could be open to fraud as at no time did i have to prove i was who i said i was um and stewart's made the same point it's worth saying if you have an old e-hit card, it has an expiry date and does remain valid until then. But I think, Rita, it's onto something, because it did strike me, it was a bit odd, that all you needed was your national insurance, and then they said they'd pop it in the post to you. That was all they seemed to want to know. But it's not like you could get money off something by using it. I mean, you're only ever going to present it if you need to go to

A&E in a European country and possibly some parts of Norway. Look, don't be all reasonable. Or Liechtenstein. Rita is appealing to my sense of impending doom. And conspiracy theories. She, like me, thinks there's something dodgy about it, or potentially

could be something dodgy about it. Anon says, on the subject of foreign exchanges, I spent a very happy year abroad in Hamburg in my third year at uni. I was hosted by a lovely couple in their apartment with their 18-year-old son. The couple were away for the weekend when I arrived, and I was already in bed when they got back home, so I only met them the following morning. As I was getting ready for my first day teaching English at a secondary school, I exited my room to find the father sitting on the loo, which was directly

opposite my bedroom. I said a quick, good morning, and retreated to my bedroom again. I became accustomed over the year to the doors to the loo and bathroom being ever open. And although I applaud the openness of their family culture, I don't. As a shy 20-year-old English girl, I never quite got over my self-consciousness. I should emphasise the family were lovely and there was no sense of danger or impropriety. Well, maybe not, but shut the bloody door of the loo. Yeah, they had a country cottage which had a sauna in it.

Oh, God. And Anon, quite rightly rightly said that she'd never go because she knew that any visit would have involved me sitting starkers with Jürgen and Tipsy. Who are they? They're the German couple. Tipsy? Jürgen and Tipsy. Right, okay.

That must be a nickname. I don't know. I'm not answering any other questions because Taylor Swift has a brother. I can't. I have to recuse myself. Yeah, you're in the factual sin bin for the rest of this podcast. Lichtenstein, yes, we did mention it.

So this is just a short note from Katerina, I hope that's right, in a country she describes as far less boring Switzerland next door to Lichtenstein. I'm not sure about that. Anyway, I was laughing out loud at Jane's comment about Lichtenstein and how nobody needs to know how to pronounce it because nobody will go there. This, in my view, is hilarious because there is actually a saying in German, which I, well, I'm going to do it. Wanderer, kommst du nach Lichtenstein,

trickt hinüber nicht hinein. Meaning in translation, when you arrive at Lichtenstein, tricht hinüber nicht hinein. Meaning in translation, when you arrive at Lichtenstein, step over it, not into it. It's good advice because A, it's so small you can do that and B, you would do that because it's just about the dullest place in Europe. So well played, Jane, you are absolutely right. Well, we'll take other suggestions for the dullest place in Europe because I always thought Switzerland was a strong contender. I know we have talked briefly about this before

and I know it's very beautiful, but perhaps it's not the... Am I OK to say it's perhaps not the most dazzling in terms of repartee and its own culture, like what Britain is? I'm not participating in this just because I'd quite like to go to Switzerland again at some point in my life.

It is a place that... Do you think you can tell a lot about a place by the type of person it attracts who aren't born there? Well, I think you probably can. And in Switzerland, we are talking... Phil Collins. Well, no, because I love some... I like a bit of Phil. And I actually... Sometimes I find his songs so moving.

I mean, Another Day in Paradise, cracking song. Yeah, I like Phil Collins too. Leaving Me is Easy, great song. I would agree with you about his music, but I don't think he's, I don't think he went to Switzerland, you know, to paint the cultural town red every night. No, you're saying he went to Switzerland

so he didn't have to pay a load of tax. No, I'm not saying that at all. Well, I think you are. No, I'm not. He went to Switzerland so he didn't have to pay a load of tax. No, I'm not saying that at all. Well, I think you are. No, I'm not. He went to Switzerland because he really liked living by the lakes. He did.

I believed him. He moved to Ambleside, mate. Now, you seem a bit touchy and this is going to make it worse. Are you ready for from Best Wishes Kate? Is this from Beaudley?

Yes, it is. Yes. She met me at the Beaudley Festival. Did you read the second paragraph? Yeah, I did. Yes. She met me at the Beaudley Festival. Yeah. Did you read the second paragraph? Yeah, I did. It's heartbreaking.

Here we go. So, firstly, may I say how much I love your show, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you for being such witty and wise companions, et cetera, et cetera. Jane, we met at the Beaudley Festival where you very kindly signed two copies of your book for me and my friend Debbie. You were very entertaining.

Was I there, Jane? Did you sign them from me? I did pretend. I think one or two people just said, just sign it from your book. Okay, so here we go. Steady yourself against something firm. That was the night I met Robert Plant.

Right. I thought you'd like to hear about an encounter my sisters and I had with a middle-aged man and his daughter whilst walking in the Cotswolds last week. Somehow the conversation got on to listening to Radio 4, something he did frequently. And he told us... Shush. He told us how much he missed listening to Fee Glover

and her sidekick, What's Her Name? Quiet now, aren't you? I jumped in and told him your name, Jane, and encouraged him enthusiastically to listen to you both on Times Radio. They're on four days a week and there's a podcast all called Off Air. I know you like to have male listeners and he strikes me as just the kind of chap who would appreciate your show.

Hopefully he's a fully signed up listener now. So thank you very much indeed. We don't have his name, do we? No, we don't. But Kate, get back in touch any time. And thank you for the hard work that you're doing. We appreciate it. Yes, and welcome aboard to that so far anonymous man

who didn't know my name. So I'm not really sure I'm going to make any further effort to learn yours. But anyway, I do hope you're listening. And actually, I had asthma this morning. She suddenly went off on one, saying how much she disliked the Cotswolds. Oh.

So I cast down the Cotswolds. I mean, and I think my ears pricked up a bit because I do, and again, this is risking offence, it is, in my mind, I mean, it's a version of England and it's a version of England. It's not my favourite either, if I'm honest. Well, if you're born and raised and live there, then it is just your England. It's not a version of anything.

But it's that whole, it's almost like it's a sanitary, I don't know, it's just your England. It's not a version of anything. But it's that whole... It's almost like it's a sanitary... I don't know. It's no Lake District. It's not the beauty of Scotland or anything. It's a place that some people really, really like and I kind of... I think I'm sympathetic to Asma's take on the Cotswolds.

Well, look, come in the Cotswolds, defend yourselves with your beautiful, what would you call it, the stone that's in the Cotswolds. There's something so mellow about that. And in summer, when you've got a really, really low-lying sunset and there's a glorious field and that sandstone is all aglowing, I think that is a beautiful part of England. My grandparents, when they left Oxford,

they moved to Charlebury, which is now very, very she-she because it's near the Soho farmhouse place. But it wasn't back then. It was a small village outside of Oxford. And I have really lovely childhood memories of just being somewhere really rural and a bit bucolic and a lot of hedgerows.

And it was just lovely. It wasn't all tarted up. Yeah, I just think you can make a case for the English-Welsh border. Parts of Worcestershire, parts of Herefordshire are really beautiful. You can make a case for the Northumbrian coast. You can make a case for lots of places. You can certainly make a case for the Northumbrian coast. We had an email saying we never talked about the northeast of England.

I was there only on Fridayiday so we're we're there we're up and down the country all the time aren't we yeah but i think the the chocolate box ization is that of the cotswolds and it has got some superlatively rich parts of it now isn't it and maybe quite an odd clientele but But I would defend... But enough about Jeremy Clarkson and David Cameron. But I think it must be very hard work if all of those people have moved into your work. I'm sure it is. Now, Exchanges, we focused on, let's be honest, the peculiarities

of being in a foreign country, particularly in the 70s and the 80s from a British perspective. And obviously it may well be that many of the hosts thought we were really odd as well. We've got to factor that in, haven't we? I mean, we're not odd, of course. We know that we're normal and everyone else is odd.

Let me just get this right. So when it's good, it's just you. When it's a bit shit, it's us. That's right. But this is from a teacher who will keep her anonymous. He says, foreign exchanges, I work in a non-selective state school. I can't give you any more details, not even the language I teach, He says, workload issues, etc. I essentially work an extra day for free to keep my head above water.

I manage this by working four days for money and the fifth one for free. Not being in school one day in the week keeps me sane. The amount of work that goes into this exchange is huge and it's been made bigger by government regulations. For instance, we send our children over there without background checks, as it doesn't exist in that country. But we ask our families to trust the exchange family. We then have to ask our families to have background checks to receive the exchange student here. That's bonkers, isn't it? Yeah. And I mean, as she quite rightly points out, it doesn't make them safer. Incidentally, Brexit has also made the children's, the British children's access to foreign language learning poorer.

We now only have our foreign language assistant in school for five months rather than nine as we can't afford the visa. So look, we're not here to talk about Brexit. It's happened now. But there are just endless things that are coming out in the wash about what it's actually meant. And I wish I could speak a foreign language. I know I kind of cock up my Spanish pronunciation and all the rest of it,

but I do think languages are so important and I think maybe British children are really missing out. It's a real shame. Yeah, I'm sure they are. And also, because of all of the stuff that now swirls around about Europe and about the politics, of our leaving the eu i think you would be foolish to think that that hasn't somehow kind of pervaded a child's curiosity and feeling comfortable about wanting to speak another language be part of another culture of

course it's going to have an impact no i think we're in danger of cutting ourselves off from positive european influences and cultures you know these places are are different and therefore they are interesting and actually she goes on to say um please give schools the respect they deserve you wouldn't believe some of the complaints requests and threats that we get sometimes the job we do even before we get to doing exchanges, etc., is enormous and getting bigger every month. Our head, who is brilliant, says that we are the last public service left that can make a difference.

And I think she's right. It shouldn't be this way. We shouldn't be the only organisation educating teenagers on everything from dental health to democracy to FGM to basic decency to knife crime to budgeting to absolutely everything oh and the subjects we're supposed to teach as well I completely agree with that I completely agree with that and also because you're just in the firing line if you teach any

of those things and to some parents don't teach them the right way which uh dare i say sometimes is the same parent who hasn't really stepped up to have any kind of opinion about whether or not you've taught geography in exactly the right kind of way so i've i feel for teachers i think it's a i think the responsibility is just so enormous now on that national curriculum and all the other bits around it. And when you get it wrong, you can get quite a public pasting as well. And that can't be a nice feeling at all. I'm sure it's a colossal amount of pressure.

Can you do something before we get to our guest, who's Jay Blades today, off of the repair shop. Off of the telly. Vets. Vets. Vets. Oh, did I have a vet one? Did you see a vet one? Did I bring a vet one in?

I did have a vet one. I've got a vet one in. We were talking yesterday about the, what's it called, the Mergers and Acquisitions Authority. The Capital and Markets Authority, wasn't it? That's looking at the fact that so many small veterinary surgeries have been bought up by these big chains and there are now only four big chains basically operating a cat and dog cartel well yeah here's jan who says my local vet has been bought out by a private

equity company all the prices have been hiked example my vet used to demat my elderly cat a quick whiz over with the clippers, charged me 35 quid. Practice was taken over by somebody else, won't mention the name. Same procedure, I was quoted 237 pounds. Hospitalisation, sedation, etc. Not needed.

Of course, I went elsewhere. But if they're all bought out, there is a real danger of a monopoly. I took the dog to a vet in france for travel checks 60 euros travel documents etc 350 quid i was quoted in the uk we're being taken for a ride it's not the vets but their employers um let me just read that bit took the dog to a vet in france for travel checks 60 euros same thing in the uk i was quoted 350 quid i think says jan we're being taken for a ride it's not the vets themselves but their employers well we had a very big mailbag on the program yesterday after we were talking about vets

but the authority who we had on did say that the suicide rate for vets is four times higher than the whatever the average profession. I know that's a terrible matrix. And he said that is to do with the horrible responsibility that they have and that kind of emotional connection to pets that are then really ill. Yeah, I mean, you're going to have to have a heart of stone to turn your back on a much-loved family moggy who takes a turn for the worse

but i do think um as uh when i first got all of my pets the small petting zoo uh i was i felt slightly beholden to the vets and did absolutely everything that they told me to do and i've really paired it back over the years so i do buy quite a lot of my stuff just online you know the de-fleeing tapeworm round roundworm, all of those kind of things. And because my cats never go to a cattery, I never have to prove that they've had a vaccination and they have been fine, Jane.

Yeah. They've all lived very long lives and they've been okay. So some of the things that they tell you you must do and Nancy was offered a series of supplements and scans that were just outrageous. Approximate price? £1,500 for the heart scans. And we did talk about this, didn't we, on the podcast

and people wrote in... £1,500 is a lot of money. Because she had been identified as potentially having the potential to have a potential heart murmur. She didn't have a heart murmur. No, she had the potential to have the potential of a heart murmur. Well, I guess merely by being alive, there's the potential that you could have a heart murmur. Now, tomorrow have a heart murmur. She had the potential to have the potential of a heart murmur. Well, I guess merely by being alive, there's the potential that you could have a heart murmur.

Now, tomorrow we're having a very important meeting where we're going to talk through the choice of book club selection for next month. You're so right, sister. I just want to thank everybody who has suggested things. And actually, on the strength of the ones I was looking at, I've ordered a book, which we won't be doing because it's only in hardback at the moment, but I managed to get a cheapy deal on the you-know-what.

And I'll be starting that over the weekend. I'm looking forward to it. So thank you, because I really love to hear what other people have enjoyed. So we've all taken a small chunk of the pile of your book recommendations and we've taken them home with us to research their availability.

To research. The, you know, to do a little bit more reading up about it and to be really thoughtful because we know that it annoyed people last time around they just couldn't a lot of people couldn't get hold of the book and so hopefully that won't happen this time we're not going to make that mistake again no so the excitement continues and we'll announce that tomorrow excitement well will we announce it or we just decide i'm going to leave you guessing um we did talk about the prospect of a good death

in our conversation with Linda Robson. And Camilla sent this lovely email to say, my husband and I updated our wills online today. And there's a section where you can include your preference for your burial, cremation, funeral, et cetera. He told me that he'd asked to be cremated and for his ashes to be scattered with mine. He asked what I'd put in that section. And I said, well, essentially the same thing.

Ideally for my ashes to be with him and ideally to be scattered in the sea but he looked really horrified and said oh no I don't want that because I can't swim do you think it's a joke yes okay it's about death I don't know whether to laugh yeah I just think it's quite sweet. Because that would also occur to me and then of course you realise it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter at all. I do think in a way, although it is wonderful to state a preference for what kind of funeral you want ideally,

you have to accept you won't be there. So actually what takes place will not affect you one way or another. I know, but it's the last element of control, isn't it? And somebody was telling us, weren't they, the other day about a very, very specific codicil in a will about people who couldn't come to someone's funeral. I don't want this one, I don't want that one.

Not him. Definitely not her. That one can wait in the car park. You think, yeah, you go girl. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Right, yes, Eve's looking okay, like she needs us to get a wiggle on. Yeah, she nodded off there earlier, but she's back with us now, back in the room.

Okay, so she's ready to fire off our interview today, which is with Jay Blades. He's the host of The Repair Shop. He's a friend of The King. You'll hear more about that in a moment or two. And wearer, of course, of a very distinctive and stylish pair of glasses. And he's spending this weekend in Bermondsey in London, basically showcasing restored furniture at a venue called the Old Branston Pickle Factory. Now, it's all part of a project to encourage more young people to think seriously about crafts, such as furniture making, as a genuine career option. Did you know that the craft industry in this country makes a huge contribution to the economy? And of course,

it could grow even bigger. And best of all, you can work with your hands. It's nothing to do with AI and you could create something beautiful or just useful. So here is Jay endorsing a career of craft. I think the main thing for me is getting people to understand, especially young people, it doesn't matter about the age really. It's about understanding that everybody can have a craft, everybody can do something. You just have to find the passion. There might be something that you've tried that you don't like it, it didn't work for you, but there's be something that you've tried that you don't like it it didn't work for you but there's always something that you can try and it just works um and you can make a career out of it it is possible but i think we need to get into the old way of thinking where it's like it's doing stuff with your hands because there are a number of people especially young people that i

know who don't have intelligent minds that means they won't get the gcses and the grades that they want to get but they have intelligent hands and they're they won't get the GCSEs and the grades that they want to get, but they have intelligent hands and they're able to make and fix stuff. And if you look at everything around us in this world that we live in now, it's all been made before it's mass produced. So it has to have someone thinking creatively and then coming up in a workshop or a shed and just making something. And then saying, oh, that will do.

And I mean, everything has been made. Yeah, and we don't often think of it that way. But of course, you're absolutely right. You were actually relatively mature yourself when you discovered that you were brilliant with your hands. You were at least 40. Is that right? Yeah, yeah.

I was always good with my hands because when you're poor, you have to be good. So you might not have the money to go and buy a wardrobe. So you get some bricks and you get a broomstick and there you go, there's your wardrobe. It's as simple as that. But I came to restoration and restoring quite later on in life. And it was mainly to help and support young people who, as I said, have intelligent hands, to show them that if you

don't get the GCSEs, you shouldn't be put under garbage heat, but you should actually start looking at what can I do creatively. Is this partly a class thing, Jay? A sense that certainly when I was growing up in the 70s, you had a bit of G plan and you didn't really think you didn't think about furniture we certainly didn't have old furniture and it wasn't something we fully understood or made much of there is a real class element here isn't there? When you say a class element and you mentioned things like G Plan I think furniture I would say it's more to do with memories when you talk about G Plan you talk about Park and O and Urquhart there's a lot of that furniture that, let's say, grandparents had or your parents might have had.

And then when you see it's coming back into fashion, it jerks that memory to the extent where it's like, ooh, I remember that. And then you find out it's comfortable, it's durable, and then the way it was made, that means it's built forever. So if you look at some of the G-Plan from grandparents or parents' days, they had that for years. I know some people who've had G-Plan when they first got married

or furniture when they first got married, and they still have it. And that's like 50, 60 years later. So it's just showing the viability of it. I wouldn't say it's a class thing because there is – that you can have entry-level furniture g plan and you can have higher end stuff that they did a bit more designery so um yeah it wouldn't necessarily be class there might be different designers I would say yeah definitely um and actually just an interest in in talking about furniture I mean I'm not I'm not honestly sure

that we ever talked about it when I was growing up. And you sat on the sofa and that was as much, I mean, you didn't, it wasn't, it was just there. It was just a thing. No. Yeah. But you remember it. When you see a sofa that you remember sitting on, those memories come flooding back. And basically that's what I think a lot of old furniture is all about. And actually I've read about your childhood house growing up was. I mean, I remember this too from that era.

There were just patterns everywhere, weren't there? Tell me about it. Wallpaper, the couch. Carpet. The carpet. It was all going on. The table. Yes, and the table.

The patterns were unbelievable. I mean, in the 70s, it probably started in the 60s, but I went about then. But in the 70s, I mean, wow. Even when I think about now, look at some old pictures I've got. And the patterns were insane. I remember my mum having this kind of orange wallpaper. And it had all squiggles on it.

And then she had the orange carpet. And then smack bang in the middle of it, she had these two circle things. And they were bronze. And I was like, what is that all about? Like, it was just, but she thought it was stylish at the time. Well, and fairness, it was. So we'll celebrate that. And I know clothes have always been important to you.

They certainly were when you were growing up because you really wanted to look both smart and distinctive, didn't you? Yeah, I wanted to look different. I didn't really like wearing the same thing as everybody else. I often like to stand out. And it's a bit like what I do with my furniture now. It stands out. I don't do the obvious.

And a lot of people do the obvious. And it doesn't make you stand out then. You just look the same as everybody else. You talk about, I mean, you've been so honest and so productive in the field of literacy and campaigning for people to do more about it and to not be afraid to come forward if you are struggling with it.

But it is still really tough, isn't it, to actually own it as an adult in this country? It is tough. And I think it's because we've had centuries of people just saying that you're not intelligent. As you're not intelligent, you're unable to read. So you're classified. I know this happened to me that I was classified as dumb. That was it.

And you're put in a corner or you're put in a class full of other kids that they say are dumb and they never had an opportunity to shine. Creatively, I think I'm absolutely brilliant you give me a sword give me a hammer give me a paintbrush give me something and I'll make you something it's not a problem but that wasn't seen as an opportunity of like okay that's what we're going to celebrate and that's what I want to celebrate so with regards to doing the reading and when I'd done a documentary my whole point was to influence people I'm never going to meet. And luckily for me, the charity that supported me during that documentary, Read Easy, I believe they've had a 55% uptake of volunteers.

And I think it's a 60% uptake of mainly adults coming forward to wanting to learn to read. So I did exactly what I wanted to do. It achieved the goal. I can't change society, but I can change people who it does affect. And it affects a lot of people. And do you believe that there are still people who can just about get by in the 21st century world without being completely literate and are basically still living that nightmare on a daily

basis just just about surviving I would say it wouldn't be a nightmare um the reason being is that I've lived it um I still live it to this day I'm not brilliant at reading when I started I had the reading ability of an 11 year old I believe I've probably gone up to probably about 13 now, a 13 year old. So my reading is not great. And I survive as a lot of dyslexic people do. You just wing it from time to time, or you have people that can support you. I remember taking a letter from a doctor's where it had a lot of words on there. And I took it to a bus stop and asked the geezer to read it to me. And he told me what the appointment was and so on and so forth and what it was all about and I said thank you very much if you're not embarrassed to ask for help you can ask for help from a total stranger

but if not you'll probably ask a family member who knows that you are dyslexic so I wouldn't say it's a nightmare I think the only nightmare that I would say comes with being dyslexic is the view from society how we're viewed as if we are the other. Like, what's wrong with you? You don't have any intelligence. You can't read. It's like this known joke. But really and truly, that's the only nightmare that I would say. I know a lot of dyslexic people who are very successful business people. I mean, very successful. And if I was to say to them, living with dyslexia is a are very successful business people. I mean, very successful. And if I was to say to them, living with dyslexia is a bit of a nightmare. No, not for me. I delegate. I make sure I've got a good team around me. They support me in the weaknesses that I have and I direct them in how we're going to move forward and make money. I have read you say, Jay, that when

you were growing up and you grew up in London, we should say, you were you were a young black man, clearly. And there would be times when people would cross the street to avoid you or would be slightly, slightly concerned. It's also perfectly possible that very same person might now bother you as you go about your business asking for a selfie. 100%. I mean, if i were you and i'm not that would i don't know how i'd feel about that what what do you say about it how i feel about it it's a very it's a very weird scenario i was running charities for a number of years and people would still cross the road hold on to the handbags lock the car doors now people

crossing the road to take a selfie it It's a weird scenario. But what I've got my head around is that it's how we are in society. It's almost as if TV is giving me that seal of approval. I am approachable. I'm a guy that's nice or kind, as you see me on the TV show. And I was never anything other than that person before. But the stereotypes are still there. It's the fact that you've had to get used to it that is disturbing. And, you know, I want to believe that Britain is one of the least worst places in the world to live for all of us. But I'm not, you know, I'm not a person of colour. So I don't, I can't walk the same route as you.

I never will be able to. And I wonder whether we're a bit too smug in this country because, I mean, the stuff that's come out in the last 24 hours about Frank Hester, a man who's given £10 million to the Conservative Party, but has said some incredibly offensive things about Diane Abbott. And what do you think of that? Do you think this is an uncomfortable scenario

that we've just got to do something about it? We've got to say stuff about this and not accept it. Yeah, the person you're talking about, see, I don't follow politics. I don't really follow the news that much. I just live the life that I'm living. But I would say that in our society that we live in now, to think that Britain is okay with people of colour is, it comes from a one-sided point of view. I think if you spoke to

a number, if you spoke to 100 people of colour, and you say, do you think Britain is okay with people of colour? I would say about 98% of them will say no, because of the experiences, the personal experiences that they have on a day- day basis. So when it comes to how we get rid of this, or how we deal with it, I think we need to have that uncomfortable conversation. And I don't think anybody's prepared to do that. Because we have the council culture, we have a case where people are scared of getting something wrong. But you have to have those conversations because we've got something wrong for so long that you need to get something wrong to then put it right, if that makes sense. Yeah, it's a long conversation and I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetime.

I think it's going to happen in the next generation's lifetime because they're asking loads of questions. They're looking at the labels on food and seeing where it's made, what's in it and so on. And they're challenging those things and they're challenging it with their spending power. So they won't buy particular products, hence why organic food has gone through the roof

and stuff like that. But when it comes to race, then you also have sexuality. There's a lot of stuff we need to address, 100%. So do you feel a particular responsibility as a notable and as you acknowledge much liked person of color in the spotlight well i think i have i have the same responsibilities as anybody i think as a human being we have a duty to be on this society to give back and i've done community work for 20 years so as i've done community work for 20 years

i classify myself as a community worker who's been put on tv so I'm still mentoring people and luckily now I've got friends in high places where I can actually speak to them and they'll kind of support me doing what I want to do which is really really great well you have got you have got friends in high places because you've you've met the king and um he's been into the repair shop um he did go into it didn't he i think you i think he actually did yeah he did go into it um and he asked what yeah his assistants got in contact with me and asked me to host his 75th birthday party um down at high growth which was really really nice we had people from the windrush

people from nhs um and people from the local group, local community, sorry, that we wanted to just celebrate is what he wanted to do. So most of them didn't know he was coming in. I went in there, worked the room, first of all, and he taps me on the shoulder, all right, Joe, I'll take over from there. And that was it. So he's a really nice king, really, really nice. Yeah, and so it's, I mean, your sincerity comes across there.

So to anyone a bit cynical about this, who might regard it all as a bit tokenistic you'd say no no his his heart is in this he means it no he's been meaning it for 40 50 years he's been talking about plastic bags he's been talking about the environment and so on and so forth the beauty with with um king charles he actually has put his money where his mouth is and he's got training camps or training places one in Dumfries and one um in Highgrove where we're training up the next generation and I'm an ambassador for that charity and it's like wow this is what it should be doing um it's nothing cynical with regards to King Charles I like the guy my mum's always told me what you don't see with your eyes don't talk with your. So that means don't talk about other people's business.

So when I met him, I knew nothing about him apart from he was the prince. And then now he's the king. Imagine meeting someone who supports either the same football team or they have the same interest as you. And you start chatting to them. You're both going to get on. It's as simple as that. It's just, it doesn't matter whether you're from a council estate or from a royal estate. You both have the same interest.

So, yeah, I'm cool. I would never have a bad word to say about him because I've sat down many a times at dinner and a little sleep over at his place. And he's a cool guy. Jay Blades, talking very positively there about King Charles. And, yeah, there's no doubt they're pretty close, Fi. You and I still haven't really

made friends with any members of the despite my best efforts over the years absolutely nothing's happened in that department but we are available for hosting for accompanying to events I won't understand your relationship with the royals at all. Complicated.

You want to be friends with them and you want to be ennobled by them. Definitely that. But you also want to gossip about them. I also think... Undermine them. Yeah, they really own too many properties. Yeah, it's quite strange.

Yeah, it is. But anyway, he was interesting. And what I really like about Joe Blades is his genuine passion for getting young people involved in craft. Actually, when I was working at, you know, you know where, we had an annual crafting craft prize, and I just was in complete awe of some of the stuff that people could produce. And I'm so jealous of those abilities. And I think it is fabulous to celebrate them genuinely.

Yeah, I would agree. Well done. And isn't it amazing that quite often that's just someone's hobby? Oh, yeah. You just think, oh, my good God, if I was good at something, that good at something, that would be my profession, wouldn't it, what I did when I went home? Truly marvellous.

I mean, stuff like quilting, carpentry, pottery, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant to be able to do that. It must be wonderful to have a lifetime hobby that you could turn into something gorgeous to look at. Eve's actually put her jacket on. So just to say... She's actually taken early retirement. Just to say.

We are taking your thoughts on where the most boring place is in Europe. We will take defences of the normal Cotswolds outside of all of that. I'm wafting around in a caftan. Yeah, there's got to be a life outside Tweeville. Yeah, no, there is. So let's hear about it, please.

And we will also take, I think, should we take strange requests in wills about funerals? Because I'll be intrigued by that. And Celebrity Siblings. Eve, thank you, darling. Thank you. So Austin Swift. It seems like it was back in the 1970s we started that chat.

Austin Swift, if you are. It was Austin Swift, wasn't it? It was, and I'm so sorry. It sounds like a make of car. I'm really sorry. I just thought... Do you know what? I was watching that Miss Americana documentary.

I don't remember him being in that at all. Or maybe they don't speak. And if you're the proud owner of an Austin Swift, we'd definitely love to hear from you. Right, Jane and F at Times.Radio. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fi Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know ladies don't do that.

A lady listener. I'm sorry. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening And get on with your day Accessibility

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