Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Incredibly strategic vaping by a cardinal (with Fern Britton)

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Jane and Fi have some buzzwords and clichés lined up for tonight, so enjoy those if you're not already sick of them. They also reflect on Errol Musk, share cucumber anecdotes and discuss a film they've been to see... Plus, presenter Fern Britton discusses her memoir 'The Older I Get...: How I repowered my life'. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It was supposed to make your eyes sparkle so that Damien would notice you at the disco. Oh, did Damien notice it at the disco? No. Perhaps because he was short-sighted. I haven't entirely given up. But you've forgotten to take the cucumbers off. Oh, oh, oh. Fee, is there anything you can't find at John Lewis? No. As well as all the great bedding, kitchen kits, beauty from brands that we all know and love, you can pick up cosy cashmere, Christmas decorations and even essentials for your pet. How about a new collar for Nancy?

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This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well, it's crossed my mind. Tell me a bit more about it. Well, with Norwegian Cruise Line, you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean,

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Hello and welcome to Off Air on Tuesday November the 5th 2024. It's just another day on planet Earth except there is a little bubble of curdling of what I'm going to call anticipation. I think that's what it is. We're on tenterhooks aren't we and you know we're not even directly affected by the outcome of the US presidential election so everybody's kind of staring into the middle distance aren't they and trying to work out what happens if a defeat is not accepted and he doesn't concede and how long will it take and what falls into that vacuum and we simply don't know. We would genuinely do better to just all go home, play some Scrabble, take our minds off it,

and come back when the event has happened. And just smear yourself in some well-chosen clichés, too close to call, knife edge, honour, knife edge, gender gap, and what else? Are there anything else in the mix? Well, there's a lot of, I mean, almost Trumpian exaggeration as well, isn't there, attached to this. Never has there been an election quite so, fill in the adjective that you want to use, and historical, I think, is doing a lot of lifting everywhere. And we, usually, because we are terribly, terribly British, we would say that we wish everybody luck.

We don't. I'm standing by my proclamation of a couple of days ago with that Laumauld Cairns that Kamala Harris is going to win. Now let's talk, let's, Fife can't do this because she's too modest. So lots of emails praising my colleague for her conduct of the interview with Mr. Errol Mosk. Mr. Mosk, don't call me Errol. Don't call me Errol. From yesterday's edition of Offair. Just in case you missed it, you can always go back. You probably need a drink or a large cream cake. But do listen because it does just tell you a lot about some of the really unpleasant thinking of the man who fathered Elon Musk, who could, he's hugely significant already,

could become even more globally significant over the next couple of days. He was a horrible man, let's be honest. Anyway, Alison says, Fee, I always thought you were fabulous, but after yesterday's interview, you're beyond fabulous. You and your man-sized notebook. You are a super cool interviewer. Now, just to explain that reference because Mr. Mask, what did he, he was, he wasn't even patronizing. He inhabited a world beyond planet patronizing. Didn't he? So at one point he told me something which, you know, is a bit nonsensical. He told me that I should go and put it in my purse. Put it in your purse, little lady. I don't think he'd actually ever spoken to a woman

before. He's had any number of children, presumably with women involved, somewhere along Life's Highway, but he seemed very, very surprised to find himself involved in a conversation with an actual woman. This is from Karen. It's 10... no, it's 1.05am and I've just finished listening to Fee's interview with Errol Musk. I'm so incensed. I don't know if I'll get to sleep tonight. I hope you did. I felt compelled to write to express my admiration for Fee for remaining professional whilst at the receiving end of utterly ignorant, erroneous and aggressive views from that repulsive, odious, arrogant, sexist, rude man. Trump makes my blood boil but this idiot makes him look like Beatrix Potter in comparison. His insistence on referring only to England and not the UK was very irritating." Well yeah I think that was probably Karen is in Wales which is why that particularly incensed her. But yeah that was also something

he did and yes I know that is incredibly frustrating to people who for their own very good reasons do not live in England. Many more in that vein but you were very very good with him I have to say Fiona and Etty says what an appalling experience for you Fee he's an absolutely abhorrent human as you said Jane with a son with money and power to do god knows what I'm hoping and hoping that the US election goes the right way and Kamala wins if I had any vegetables to chop in the hope I discover something funny I would send you a picture but I haven't been to Alder yet so I'm sending you a hug okay so that's a hug from Etty and I think he's probably very grateful for that yeah so no thank you you don't need to do any more of this. You asked for my thoughts says Lisa as I said to my husband, cripes he's an arse. Well Lisa

that's two swears, cripes and an arse. It's not the kind of thing we expect from our listeners. With you on that. But that's what's so lovely about our Offair podcasting community, isn't it? That actually we can play you an interview like that and you come back and make it better. And you know, I think my overriding impression of Errol Musk will always be a man who seems to be happy for it to be worse. And Kate has crystallized all of my thoughts actually and thank you very much indeed for your email and thank you for all of your emails actually. Kate says just as a PS I'm especially proud of our democracy. As a member of my own family born in apartheid South Africa was detained and forced to leave because of their

views and friendship. My anger at the unearned privilege that this man demonstrated and how he talked to you knows no bounds at the moment. And that's it, isn't it? In a nutshell, it's the fact that people like Errol Musk are at the top of the pile. They really are at the top of the pile. They've never known anything else. No, and it doesn't matter to them actually what they say because they won't experience a sense of fear or they're not putting their lives in jeopardy and I'm absolutely with you on that Kate and I think that's really what riled me the most.

Yeah, there was a lot that riled everybody but to echo what Fee said, we welcome your support in trying times and there'll be no further need for feminism, just going back to Trump briefly, when a fat 78 year old incoherent rambling sordid woman is in with a good chance of becoming American president. Bring on those times. Come on, I want to stay alive long enough to be around when that woman is on the cusp of victory potentially. Well I'll tell you what you've got to spend your dotage doing. You've got to accrue 35 criminal investigations pending convictions. Yes, okay, well if I go out now I could start, yeah.

You've got to... I'll have to have been caught boasting about my predatory habits when it comes to just growth in young men. I know what you're like when you're in the presence of normal people because you are a celebrity you can just grab their penises. Well I can. I mean I've heard you say that many many times on a hot mic chain. People just laugh it off. They do.

And if you could work a little bit on the comb over, let's not demean ourselves by talking about appearance, let's! Then I think you might be in with a chance. And then if you can actually advertise your presidency as making the UK great again and tell people that it will be nasty, because that's what Donald Trump did at one of his many, many appearances last night in a way that suggested that being nasty at the beginning of a presidency would be a good thing. He also said that you needed to be cunning in order to be at the top and I don't think you do. I think cunning is really overrated in what then falls out after you've been cunning.

So anyway. I didn't realize he'd used the word cunning. He did. Yes. Yeah. We need people who are cunning. When he was trying to put down Kamala Harris for being a person with low IQ. Oh yeah.

Which she clearly is because many people who get a law degree are really thick. They don't work at all. Well she's probably too busy worrying about what's in her little purse. That'll be what it is. Anyway, look, who knows? Tonight I do plan to go to sleep and I'm sure I don't think you will. Hopefully I'll nod off. I'll listen to something really dull. Have you got any episodes of Rivals left? I have actually. That would be my go-to. Well, but even some of them are a bit troubling aren't they? So that doesn't really help. Well, we went to a film. We went to a film. We did go to a film last night. Yes, and you had recommended to me a coronation chicken sandwich from the canteen here to take because we both find

it very difficult to get through an evening event without eating. And what I have discovered is that a well stuffed sandwich, it's almost impossible to eat them in the dark. Plus I made a noise when I opened the packaging and then there was a big waft of coronation chicken that went through this quite sophisticated screening room in London's Soho. But we were both a bit baffled because we couldn't work out why some of the people were there. I mean you and I are in show business, So that's why we were there. We didn't recognise a single other celebrity. We didn't.

We were just a bit troubled. There was one guy who came in, he had a backpack and a large LaCruzé bag. Which clearly had a big pot in it. Which had obviously just been to John Lewis. It's like, where is this in your day? I don't know, I didn't understand. Anyway, the film, you will be hearing a bit more about it. I think we can say what it was, can't we? Yes, we went to see Conclave, which is the adaptation of the fabulous Robert Harris's

novel all about papal difficulties. Yes, well, the election of a pope, of the holy father. And well, there's a lot of lovely frocks and Vatican action. And I think you'd be hard pressed not to enjoy it. You really would. We did come out of it. We've got many, many thoughts about the film. It was a very, very, very good watch. There was some incredibly strategic vaping by one of the cardinals, which I really loved. You would fall for the... Of course he wouldn't look at you. Because he's a cardinal. But yes, he'd be all tight.

That is covered in the film, though, isn't it? Some people have slipped. Yes, they had a lapse, which we know is not entirely unheard of. So it's cracking. And yeah, it does make me... I mean, that's another job I've gone for. Head of the Catholic Church, I haven't got anywhere. Have you not?

A couple of things go against me, I suppose. Not a Catholic. Not a man. Not a man. No. Anyway, Conclave's out soon. You will be hearing more about it. I tell you what, we were sitting right at the back, and thank you for bearing with me, because that's my favourite place in a cinema. I can't stand going to the cinema and having people sitting behind me.

It just makes me feel really, really creeped out. Yes, it does. Why? What do you think they're up to? Well, I don't know. The thing is if they open a Coronation Chicken sandwich, then I have to... I'm kind of living the sandwich whilst watching a movie. I gave up eating that thing because I was eating it in the dark.

You don't know what you're getting in your handful. And it was quite squelchy. And you don't know which bits are falling out. No, you don't know which bits did fall out. Yeah. But we were sitting right underneath the speaker and it was a real super woofer speaker. And I couldn't sleep last night because I was still slightly kind of,

I felt like I'd been- You're in the Vatican. I felt like I'd been to a club. It was that- It was that good. It was that kind of slightly, I was slightly over-hyped. It was a difficult night. Right, I mean there is a gender divide, talking of the gender divide in the American election, there's very much one in conclave because the sisters are, well they're reduced to incredibly menial roles.

Their job is to cater and the food looked fabulous for the cardinals from all over the world who've been called to the Vatican to elect the new pope and the nuns are just bustling around them, largely unnoticed until they're not. Yeah. But Robert Harris writes a very, very good woman in all of his books and if you think about the other fabulous book that was turned into a film which is The Ghostwriter, sometimes just called Ghost, but not that one with all the pottery and stuff, obviously. I don't think I'm giving away too many secrets. If you've never watched it, then just sing loudly for the next 30 seconds or whatever.

The denouement of that book and that film is so spectacular because it is the power behind the throne, the woman who turns out to be the person with all of the gumption. Heft. Heft and you know the whole kind of plot revolves around that and it's not, we're not going to talk too much about the plot of Conclave in case you haven't read the book. But I think he's just spot on with his female characters, I admire him for that. There was one scene where I thought Stanley Tucci, who is a surprisingly convincing cardinal in Conclave,

was not wearing any pants, but it was just the angle. And he actually was wearing pants, he had a dressing gown on. He was involved in late night discussions with the British Cardinal played by Ralph Bynes. That's the difference between us, I was just looking at his aura, you were obviously looking somewhere else. It's just of course high time that England supplied the UK, supplied another Pope. Yeah, I didn't, I know this is really stupid, but I didn't realise that they got to choose their own names, I thought it was just a coincidence that after them I called Paul and John. You are sweet at times. Right, okay, just briefly, just back

to the Errol Musk encounter, because this is from a listener who is a retired teacher, and she says that when I was listening to that interview I had flashbacks to many parents' evenings when talking to a parent explained everything about their child. Most parents were funny, supportive and realistic, but I did speak to a handful who unnerved me and I metaphorically checked under my car before driving home. You're talking to them, but at the same time your mind is trying to work out what's going on and what on earth can you say next without losing it.

The dissonance is so difficult. That's interesting, isn't it? It is. I imagine that happens to teachers a lot. You wonder about the child because they possibly do present in a quite challenging fashion and then you get the evidence of where they've sprung from and you think, ah yes. So I don't know whether this happened when your kids were in primary school but when my kids were in primary school we had a home kids were in primary school, we had a home visit

from one of the teachers and a teaching assistant before the kids joined school, you know, which is a very, very time-consuming thing for the teachers to have to do, but actually that was because they wanted to know a bit more about all of the kids who joined in reception and the best way, one of the best ways that they thought they could do that was by visiting your home, seeing who you are, where you live. And did they still do that? Yep, I was incredibly impressed. And it didn't feel invasive? No, not at all because the teacher who was then one of my kids' reception class teachers and the TA, they were just such fantastic women. They really knew their stuff so it

didn't feel invasive at all and there was no sense, you know, that there was a kind of investigative nature. It was done in an incredibly friendly way. But I mean I found it very comforting as a parent because I think that link that comes out of the school gates into your home is really helpful when your kids first start school. And obviously it's very helpful to them, but you know, to be able to see where kids are coming from and what they're dealing with at home.

But I mean, it's an amazing community school, it still is. And it has given my kids the absolutely the best start in life Jane absolutely the best well that's good to hear yeah so let's hear it for Gayhurst Community School in the heart of London Fields that name again Gayhurst Community School is it still recruiting well uh yes it probably is it's huge well it's a it's a huge school I don't know how they manage to run it as well as they do actually. Well, credit to them. Right, brief mention of cucumber which we were discussing yesterday on the programme. It took off didn't it?

People were obsessed with the people's cucumber anecdotes. Surprising number of them. Because what was it we were talking about? The number one delivery, Deliveroo product. So not takeaway, because that was chicken wings, or boneless chicken or something. But the number one item ordered in our United Kingdom is a cucumber. And a single cucumber. Just the one cucumber. We couldn't get over it. Marie, who often contacts us and is always very welcome, I can't see the point of a

watery cucumber. Why would anyone think it's a good idea to add a few slices to a gin and tonic? Stop! Keep it for putting on your eyes, as advertised in all the teen mags in the 70s. Oh, I remember that. Do you remember that beauty tip? She says, yeah, I do. I do remember that. Yes, and we did all try it once, didn't we? And it made no difference at all. Made nobody. Not a scrap of it.

It was supposed to make your eyes sparkle so that Damien would notice you at the disco. Oh, did Damien notice it at the disco? No, perhaps because he was short-sighted. I haven't entirely given up. But you've forgotten to take the cucumbers off. Oh, oh, oh. Mr Leon Solon says, did I see Phi on Prince William's documentary about homelessness? No! If it was you, Phi, well done! Yes, you

did! Yes, it was her. No, it wasn't. It wasn't her. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now, Jane, there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest, we get quite a lot of those in the UK, don't we? I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of art, if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul. Yeah, you're on to something there, because scientific research suggests that regularly looking at art could help you live longer, plus lots of other well-known benefits to

boost your well-being and help reduce stress. So why not get a National Art Pass? It gives you free and half price entry at hundreds of museums and galleries and only costs £59.25 for an individual pass. And there's a reduced price for under £30 and you can also purchase plus one and plus kids add-ons. Free or half price entry and a chance of living longer, I am sold. The National Art Pass. See more, live more. Get your pass at artfund.org forward slash off air. The Times podcast How to Win an Election is back.

A very, very complex, fractured, truculent, volatile electorate. We're still taking you inside the biggest political stories with the help of some of the biggest brains in Westminster. So long as we all drink more Kool-Aid, we're gonna be fine. Join Peter Mandelson, Polly McKenzie, Danny Finkelstein and now me, Hugo Rifkind. Think of me if you like as a sort of Daniel Craig taking over from Pierce Brosnan as 007.

Listen now to How to win an election. Hello, I'm Holly Mead and with me is Lucy Andrews and we are both from the Money Team at The Times and Sunday Times. And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively about money and personal finance. Each week, we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt, saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish.

Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyds Ready Made Investments. Right, now look, Errol Musk one day, Fern Britton the next. Squint a bit, squint a bit. Yeah you can on it. That's why you listen to Off Air and we love you for it. Here's Fern. So she's here Fern Britton the woman who thought nothing about breaking the rules at her school. We've got a message to prove it Fern. Oh tell me, tell me. It's from, I'm not gonna mention the name although I do know you I think we've met. Anyway she says I went to the same school as Fern. She was in the sixth form when I was only in only in the fourth year. She was super cool and she wore makeup despite the rules. She won't remember me. Oh, she didn't notice me at all really. She just wafted by.

I don't think I've ever wafted, but bless her. You had your wafting years clearly. She was so glamorous and cool, says our correspondent. Well thank you. And I'm sure I would have spotted you because, yes, sixth form, you know, it was prefect and all that sort of stuff. So I did know the younger school. Of course you did. Were you not allowed to wear makeup in sixth form? No. Our headmistress, Miss McMaster, Agnes McMaster, was very keen that we should spear our hair back at all times, no matter how long or short it was.

Mine was extremely short at the time and we were not allowed, we had to have our skirts measured, kneel on the ground and make sure that the ruler was you know all that stuff and couldn't wear patent shoes, patent leather shoes because apparently they would reflect our underwear and this was a this was a good state school. I wasn't you know I'm not well brought up in that sense but this was a good state school. I wasn't, you know, I'm not well brought up in that sense but it was a good state school and she was great. And I loved school. I felt very, I was, yeah, I did like school very much. Until you mentioned that I had forgotten about the patent shoes and the reflecting underwear. Is that actually a thing? Oh well, we had one man who was the French teacher and obviously it would have driven him mad with his eyes.

Oh, and our summer dresses weren't allowed to have sleeves, had to have sleeves, because otherwise armpits enticed the male staff. Right. Fern Britton is our guest this afternoon and you may or may not know that you're following, because yesterday's guest in the afternoon, this is meant to be the relaxing, you know, think about opening the biscuit barrel, maybe even start looking forward to going to bed tonight. Definitely. Section of the programme. And yesterday our guest was Errol Musk, father of Elon. Oh.

So you're a really welcome contrast, Fern. It's good to have you here. Oh, I was going to say, how are we fitting together? Good. Okay. He's not coming in now. No. So you are, I think it's fair to say, the literary queen of Cornwall these days. Ten novels you've written. Yes, number 11 is about to be delivered. Okay.

So that's good. We'll talk about that in a moment. And a memoir you've done as well, but this isn't a memoir. This is called The Older I Get. And is it okay to say you are now 67? Yes, that's the whole point. Well, yes, so tell me, tell me about the point, because you certainly don't look 67. I know, I don't ever know whether that's a comment worth making, but I'm going to say it anyway. Well, I do in the morning when I first get out of bed. All right. Have you started making involuntary noises? Yes. Yes okay I do that. Of course I'm sitting down getting up my knees going down slowly when I bend my knees because they really hurt. My thumbs and wrists and fingers are full of arthritis

and painful and you know opening. Bacon I do like a bacon sandwich occasionally and you get that it's all vac-packed in and it says oh just tear here at this corner and that tab immediately breaks and then you're standing around. I have actually bought myself a Stanley knife now to get myself into wrapping and unwrapping parcels. Do you know I've been known to use car keys on the bacon because sometimes that's the only thing that's close to hand. That's good. no, I did all that but I actually just went and thought no, I need a Stanley knife. And it's great retractable blade, it's quite exciting. I think if I have it in my pocket, you know...

But do take care listeners, health and safety element there, just inject enough. When you're this age you understand how to use these things. Do you know what I was struck by in the book Fern is you're very truthful and honest about how you lack confidence still. And I was really interested in the bit where you say you're still not certain about describing yourself as a writer. Totally. But that's crazy. You've had Sunday Times bestsellers coming out of every orifice. Yeah, I know. But it's just it is imposter syndrome. It's funny. I was on the train coming up from Cornwall yesterday and

was talking to a lady. We were waiting at the doors for the train to actually arrive in Paddington and she had a great big suitcase and she said, oh, I'm waiting for the man to come and help me with my case. I said, I'll help you, that's no problem. And then we got talking and she was from Vienna and she was a poet. And she said, I wrote poetry, I write essays, I read... What do you do? And I went... I'm a writer. I was waiting for the police to arrive.

Honestly, so you were nervous about saying it? Of course. You still can't own it? No, because there are real writers down there. And clearly I don't feel I'm a real writer. Yeah, but some of them don't sell any books for her. No, I know. And that's the...

I mean, that's a weird thing. What? Thank you to everybody who's bought a book but honestly it still surprises me and they toted them up the other day and now I'm ready to go I've sold nearly two and a half million books. I mean that's madness. That is well worth celebrating. It is madness and and and I think also if you were going to think perhaps your celebrity had helped you to get the first one published I think that is definitely. Of course if you haven going to think perhaps your celebrity had helped you to get the first one published, I think that is definitely... Of course, if you haven't got a name, you know, yes, I know that. That is the thing. It wouldn't have helped you get the tenth one published, would it? So at what point do you think that you will allow yourself to go...

It's beginning. Maybe this is actually who I am, this is what I'm good at. It's beginning, but it's taking a long time. I mean it was the same with television. I never really I Hope I never really became Believing but I can't even say it. I just loved a job. I was doing a job I loved and it happened that yes, I think I was pretty good at it That was fine

And I was working with an American lady recently and she was going on about how she was you know, oh my god I'm having this great job. It's all awesome. It's wonderful. And then she said, Oh, you know, you have a great following for an I've well, no, no, you're great. You're great. You're great.

And I said, No, no, look, I'm English. The best I can do is if you say that was okay. That's that's fine. I can't deal with anymore. Aren't you the same? Well, is it because of your parents? Because there are some comments in the book and parents and we're parents and it's you can't ever with anymore. Aren't you the same? Well, is it because of your parents? Because there are some comments in the book, and parents and we're parents, and you can't ever get it right. You can never get it 100% right.

I mean, you can try. It's our duty not to get it right in a way. But you have to be so careful what you say and how you say it. Now, your dad in particular, he did make cruel comments, I mean, particularly about your appearance. Yes, yes. I mean, yes. I'm sure he loved you, by the way. Oh, yes. I mean yes. I'm sure he loved you by the way. Oh yes, no he did. But he didn't really know me for a long time because he wasn't around. He

had, he and my mother already separated. He only told me this when I was 55. And I knew I didn't, he would never, I don't have any memory of him at home. But no one told me what had happened. And he'd already left my mum for his the lady who was to become his second wife and um on a visit home I supposed to see my sister and my mum by the time he'd left just a few hours I had been conceived so I mean you know he was a quick one yeah quick work and because he was so handsome and so charming, it was very hard to resist him and he loved women. So I understand that intellectually as an adult now. And when he told me I was very grateful because suddenly it put the jigsaw together.

But because he didn't know me and because he was very keen on women looking like women and men looking like men and he would shoot his cuffs and have wonderful cufflinks and all. He was a lovely guy. He was a very successful actor we should say. Yes, Tony Britton, very successful actor. Television, radio, RSC, all that stuff. Film. So one day when I had resigned my job as a stage manager for the Cambridge Theatre Company because that's the only thing I'm trained at. That's the only thing I can proudly say I'm actually a stage manager. And I rang him up from the local phone box because I didn't have a mobile phone and I said, oh I've got this job on television and he said,

well you're too fat to be Sue Lawley. But I could only agree with him. I wasn't, of course, you look at the pictures. No, I was absolutely, I was 22 and looking fine. And why is it that we can only remember the bad stuff often? The bad reviews, the people who say, oh I didn't really think you were up to much then. And we don't really pile away in the recesses of our brain the happy memories, the things we did okay, the things we did well.

Well yes, but that's the imposter syndrome that puts those things away in a cupboard. Don't look in that cupboard, look at this one that says, this person is... Can I say shit? Shit. Yes. Well, I've done it. Well, that's Fern Britton there. Neither Fina or I would ever dream of saying it. Tell you what, she's racier than I thought, Jane. Well, she did wear makeup in the sixth form, we need to make that clear.

I'm not sure I did, but... Well, our correspondent says you did. Maybe a little mascara. When, you have made your life now in Cornwall but things have changed for you and you're very interesting I think on making friends slightly later in life. Yes. How have you done that? Well by happenstance a lot of lucky things, I've had a lot of unhappy things, a lot of difficult things and a lot of fabulous things in my life and you have to stop sometimes and look and think, oh that that was a wonderful gift that happened to me. And so I bought this

house in Cornwall that I'm now living in 18 years ago and at the same time two doors down a tiny little hamlet in Cornwall, moved in another lady. And she and I, it was her, she's very good at being sociable. I'm hopeless, I go into my shell. She came and said hello and introduced herself and her sons and her dog and all that. And we became great friends and that's Boo. I call her Boo in the book. And we've become closer and closer and she really is a good friend.

And I have other lovely friends. I think everyone only probably has about five really good, dependable friends. And she's one of them. And then the second one was Two Cups. She's known as Two Cups because she wins two cups at the garden competition. This year I lost my one cup and I'm just no cups. Anyway, Two Cups. She sort of joined in. We just accidentally,

the three of us collided and she's amazing and she had, I mean she's so funny as well. I'm just a little bit older than her which she always says she's younger than me and a couple of nights ago she had some sort of incidents with four bottles of wine and tequila. So yesterday she had a terrible hangover and you just think you know a woman of 60 something why not? Well neither Fina nor I know what you're talking about. Seriously talking of age I think it's been slightly undercooked. I'm 60 and one of the reasons I won't come to Harris to win there are lots of other reasons is that I'm finding it really exhilarating

to have a woman exactly the same age as me, pretty much, give or take a couple of months, in this position. How fantastic is it going to be if she does win, and of course she might not? Well, she might not, but I mean, it's life. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. Aren't you energized by the possibility of a woman of around your age occupying the most exciting role on earth? Oh sorry, you see, this is another thing. 40 odd years of wearing talkback. I'm blinking deaf. So I missed the whole question. Oh, no. Carmel Harris, you said. Yes, I realize I didn't understand that.

So Carmel Harris, I think she's amazing and she's such a great... this is the other thing, you forget all your words don't you when you get this age and I've been talking all day. So Kamala Harris is the perfect antidote to Trump and I can't understand why nobody sees that. But yes she's fabulous, why shouldn't she win? Why shouldn't she give it a go? Was that the question? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, millions of people do see it, but maybe not quite enough. That's where we're at at the moment. That's where we're stuck. You also talk, I mean, we've talked about making new friends, but you talk, and I think it's very poignant,

about the joy of reconnecting with old friends. Yes. Getting a phone call from a contact or an old flame, whatever it was, and just having a blissful half an hour's chat. Yes and unexpected that actually helped to kickstart this thing about I'm writing about about repowering because I've had this you know the early part of my 60s I'm now 67 as you know was difficult because both my parents died and I got divorced and life changed. A lot going on. And then one day when I was feeling particularly low, the phone rang

and it was this guy who I'd known when we were in our teens and early twenties. He wasn't a boyfriend but he was a friend part of a group. And then he said, and I'm with this other guy who had been the first true love of my life. And they were having a drink over lunch, obviously slosh, and they thought, let's ring phone. And they rang me up and they told me all these lovely things about clearly how cool and wafty I was now. And we just had such a laugh. And it really cheered me that someone somewhere remembers us all

as young people. And it's only when you get to this stage you realize we've all cloaked ourselves in these different disguises of, well of course now I'm in television and now I'm a writer and now, you know all that rubbish. And it's only the people who've known the essence of you right at the beginning before you've somehow become cloaked with everything else can bring you back to who you are. And it was lovely. You do recommend Couch to 5k. Yeah. Now, can you tell us about that because neither of us are terrifically keen.

Okay, that's fair enough. But it is good. Do you feel the need to at least get out in the fresh air? Well, yes, I walk to the tube station on a daily basis. Very good. That's something. You know, a lot of people don't even do that. I got into cancer 5K because I'd hurt my shoulder exactly as lockdown happened. So I couldn't see a doctor for two years and it was hurting.

I couldn't do anything with it. It was just, and then finally saw a surgeon who said, right, we've got to replace the whole of this shoulder. Boring story but this shoulder actually pushed me forward because I had to wait for a year for the NHS and in that year I had to get fitter lose weight, stop smoking because in the era of indolence I've smoked really successfully. You have packed it in now have you? Gone yeah. I wouldn't have had you down for a smoker. No I know you see. So lifelong smoker. People think I just started smoking because I was so miserable thinking I was dealing with everything brilliantly and I really wasn't. So Couch to 5k came into it and the thing about it is it's very it draws you in it's very seductive so the 20 minutes run, you put your phone in your ear, pods in,

and the instructor just talks you through it. You walk for five minutes, you run for a minute. Run, I mean, you just move a little quicker. That's it. Then you walk for three minutes, and after nine weeks, I think it is, you can run 30 minutes without stopping. I don't know whether I've actually covered 5k,

but it's not that, for me I'm not very competitive, but you can do it. And it's really a wonderful thing, wonderful thing. Give it a go. Which even those of us who would never do cross country at school. No, I hate it cross country. It's still achievable.

Yeah, it is definitely achievable. How do you cope with the aching knees though, if you're running? Because that actually is the thing that puts me off. Yes, and now, because I'm suddenly tuned into arthritis because of my shoulder and my wrists and my fingers and my palms, my knees are also going. So I looked it up on the Arthritis Society thing, and they offer you exercises,

and it's to actually work your knees. Don't sit down and rest them because the muscles and the tendons and everything, I don't know, goes flabby. So you've got to use them and then the muscle and everything around your knees is going to get stronger and take the pressure off the joint and it is much easier. Well, it's all contra whatever. We're gonna take that advice and we'll let listeners know how we're getting on. Please give it a go. Let me know. You've intrigued me. I think maybe it's only three times a week. That's it.

I mean I don't want to do it with anybody. I just stick the thing in. The man I listen to is Reese Parkinson and it's NHS app and He doesn't do jokes. He just goes you can do this. Come on. That's it. It's lovely. Okay. Thank you very much My pleasure will see you in the Olympics here in LA. I don't know We're sure to be there. I've been thank you so much 12th novel coming soon 11th 11th 11th coming next spring. Yeah, and's two more after that, I'm on a contract. So that's good. Wow. And this one's published on Thursday November the 7th and it's called Furn Britain, The Older I Get. Yeah, get it and put some pep in your step. Thank you very much. Brilliant, thank you. Furn Britain and her book is called The Older I Get, How I Repowered My Life.

I repowered my life. Excuse me. What happened there? Is that the cucumber changing position? I need to eat more oily fish. That's just my bones creaking there. Bennett, mackerel is very tasty. So we love Fern and all hail to repowering your life. I think she's one of those people who

maybe doesn't get the all of the badges and the accolades that she deserves would you agree? Oh I would. Have you done couch to 5k? No. No, nor have I. So if you haven't either you're in excellent company. If they called it sofa to 5k. Now you're talking. I may have been more tempted. No, I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to do that. My knees are struggling already at the age of 55. That's why I, because my sister can run, she does 5k, she just did a 10k a couple of weeks ago and I'm really impressed but I just feel like you that the knees are just not up to it. Yeah and also, and I'm not trying to be saucy here at all but my my bid bosoms wouldn't. Now I knew you as soon as you say bosoms. I'm afraid you've

lost the audience and you've certainly lost me. Look it could be a challenging couple of days but Off Air will rumble on through the week for what it's worth. Keep your emails coming, Jane and Fiat at Times.Radio. Take care. Oh, just thinking, is there a sports bra in the world that could persuade me to run 5k? The answer is no, Jane. What if Donald Trump is in the White House and you've got the option to run towards him? No. No? In your harnessing? Run away? Run away possibly. Yes. No. No? No. In your harnessing?

Run away? Run away possibly? Yes. Okay, yeah. Towards. Okay, right. Good luck everybody. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and

Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Staying on top of Canadian news does not have to be boring. Canada Land is a podcast that brings you the news differently. Our reporters break original news stories that you won't hear anywhere else,

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