Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Is she kneeling? No, that's me!

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Listen up fellow listeners, Fi has a golden nugget of wisdom to share... she forgot it. Fear not, Jane has a conspiracy about the numbers on the back of London buses to keep you entertained in the meantime. Also, Fi speaks to dog whisperer Louise Glazebrook about her new book 'Everything your puppy wants you to know'. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I like a bedchamber free of all activity. Yes. Canine or otherwise. I don't think it's always been that way, but certainly is now. We have everything you need for an A-plus year. Come check out our special back-to-school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all out without going over. Don't wait. Our back-to-school offers are only available for a limited time.

Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, At your side. Welcome. We're just talking about chefs. Yeah. My first ever chef was the Galloping Gourmet. He was the one I remember but you're too young for him aren't you? Well no I do have a sense of him, Graham... That's it? Yeah. Oh I didn't realise he went on that long.

Sometimes I think that you slightly exaggerate the age limit between us. You're only 26. It's like four years. It's five years. And every one of those years counts. Four and a half. Well, yes it does actually, I feel very sprightly. How are you? Actually, I don't feel too bad but I think it's because I've had a recent holiday.

I am conking out though, very early. It's 10.30 and I'm just dead to the world. But it's been day on a Wednesday so, oh, they were planking around at half five this morning. So you think 10.30? God, I'm in bed by by 10 and watch the headlines on my phone. 90 nights. Yeah we are off at 6.30 at the moment. Right yeah well 6.30 is that's an early start but um but hey apparently what you should do is get out and go for a walk but you probably do that anyway don't you? Well I do because I have to take the big fart bag out. Yeah so you're doing it you've got every box ticked. Don't you feel bad about yourself, girl? Thank you, sister. Right. I did. Oh, I came to the party this morning with a gift and now I've completely

forgotten what it was. It'll come back to me. A literal gift or a verbal gift? A verbal gift. A gift to the podcast. And I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Could you do some talking while I try and plug in my brain? Yes, I'll do some talking. We were talking yesterday and actually this is an email for you, Fee, from a lady called Polly who says, I was struck by your conversation about children moving up or down a school year depending on when their birthday falls and I think Fee and I had a similar experience. Being a mid September birthday too, I was bumped up a year at school, but it was inexplicably decided

that I would skip that crucial year at the end of primary. And the result was obviously quite disastrous. So that must mean that Polly went to secondary school when she was barely 10. Yes. Which is just crazy. So that confident little girl at the top of the class became an insecure thing totally out of her depth and I never caught up. Scraping through my GCSEs and flunking my A levels.

What were they thinking? She says. Until that is, I decided to go back to university at the age of 25. Three degrees later I'm a human rights lawyer in London and have, in a move dripping with irony, been invited back to my school to give talks on having a successful career. I have wasted no time in explaining to the girls that their school or their parents do not necessarily know best. And I bet that goes down unbelievably well in the hall and then when it's repeated in the staff room or back at home unbelievably badly. What is that woman who came to talk

to you today talking about don't believe her? But thank you for sending that in Polly because you're right to say that we've all done alright in the end and everybody's always got something about their school days which is a little bit problematic and I don't spend an awful lot of time thinking about the age thing but I do also think it's there for a reason. If you only ever put people of the same, what you believe to be, academic potential in a group together, I don't think that's the whole point of childhood childhood I think it's actually quite a small point of education in childhood. It's also the physical maturity thing. Yeah and I mean I was always tiny Jane by comparison, tiny. So there's this comical school photograph in my secondary school

where you go along the row and it's just like yep okay so that's whatever it was you know year nine year nine oh I need a magnifying glass it's been said is she kneeling no that's me I'm standing at my full height back up everybody else normal so that that that well you have you have done well no you have no you have it is it's hard I I mean, I... Laced with something. We do, we do talk about the whole diminutive, diminutive stature thing. And I mean, my school photo, which we had taken, you know, the whole school in the,

when I was in the upper six, in fact, I must have been just about to leave. I'm completely obscured by the girl in front because I didn't really get, you know, when you, because I'm right on the back row yeah but obviously at the end because I was one of the shortest but I wasn't standing between the two girls in front of me like someone's little shadow so yeah you can't really I'm barely there it's it's and I I have that well I study I tell you what you've made up for that now that's one of the reasons I've become a professional gobshite, because I will not be. The get out in front. Yes, exactly. I do think that's had more of an impact than I've been prepared to admit until now. Yeah. So I do remember going to secondary school and

they had all of the classrooms had wooden doors with just panes of glass at the top, and I was too small to see through the panes of glass. And you did have to look through to make sure you're heading for the right classroom. So stuff like that was weird anyway, who cares now. Thank you for all of your correspondence, presumed innocent and dental care. And I like to think that when, is it Jake can't say her surname? Gillengal? Gillinghall. Gillinghall. Gillinghall. Gillinghall. Yeah. They're a very talented family. Who's his sister? Maggie. Maggie, she's very good.

She did that incredibly good drama, didn't she, about kind of malfeasance in the security services. I remember watching it during the pandemic and it was one of those ones that went slightly under the radar. It was super good, I looked that up. Caroline Kelly informs us, I was listening to you talking about watching Presumed Innocent and Monday's podcast. I watched it all a few weeks ago. I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend it especially, but apropos your conversation some weeks back about the depiction of couples brushing their teeth together while simultaneously chatting, in one episode of Presumed Innocent there is a scene with two spouses chatting while simultaneously flossing. What do you think of that? Well that's a step, that is a step too far. That feels weirdly intimate.

It does. In a way that... There's also the sound of flossing is just a bit odd isn't it? And when that little bit flicks out onto the mirror... I think that should be something that stays between you and your hygienist. I actually really do. Can I just add a note of completely unconnected old fartery? I was trying to buy a birthday card today. Look, I like to think of myself as reasonably broad-minded, you know, verging on being a

woman of the world. Yes. But can I just say that some of the modern birthday cards or greetings cards are very rude. They're so crude. Crude. That's it. So they are vulgar. So it's not just me. No, it's not just you.

I'm shocked. Yep. Is it a big one this year? No. And worse. No, it's much more. I saw one that I honestly couldn't believe. I'm not even, I'm not going to repeat it but I just thought, why would you want to send that to someone? It is a thing now, isn't it? It is a thing. Well, stop it!

So quite often, there's a kind of open kiosk type card shop downstairs on the way to the tube. Oh yeah, they don't have the nasty ones. Oh they do. Oh yeah, they don't have the nasty ones. Oh they do. Oh do they? They've almost devoted a special stand to spin the vulgarity here. Oh really? Yep.

And it is off-putting. And you're right. I mean, I don't know what you think of your friends if you need to send something referring to their private parts to them on their birthday. Yeah, or back passages. I think the hardest category of all to send a card to is... Is when you've got bad hemorrhoids. It's very difficult to get all the five shots. No, that's very dangerous territory for me. You're very upsetting. I'm not going there. The hardest category of all to send a card to is the adolescent male because

the only cards available, and I appreciate they're a category of individual on the whole doesn't send cards or care very much whether they get them, but I'm still sending cards to my nephews and my various relatives and friends. And it's very difficult to get a card for a lad, I'm going to say that, isn't a foaming tankard of beer or someone playing sport. And they may not be interested in either of those two things. So what do you do? I think that's a good point. There is one doing the rounds at the moment, which I've found to be useful for exactly

that category. Go on. Which is on a yellow background and it just says don't grow up it's a trap. Oh yeah that's good. I don't mind that kind of wit, I like the irony. It's just weird. We've had it up to here with vulgar. Yeah we don't like vulgar. We don't like vulgar. No we don't.

Right in comes a query from Colette who says oh please Jane do that share one more time. Share would? Yes I think didn't you do a turn back. Hang on, I need to fill that up. If we could turn back Jane. And there I am doing karaoke on the dock road it's about 20 to 11 and everybody's had a skin fall. Did you ever used to do the do you believe in love thing you know where she does the funny voice things? Do you believe in love? How did that go for you? I've never been drunk in a pub.

Yeah, but I've never been drunk in a pub. Collette goes on to say, It cheered me right up on our long school run home. P.S. I'm girding my loins. I really, really love that phrase for Sherwood. And then I listen to you and honestly I don't think I'm ready. I'm going to wait until the winter has set properly in. For some reason I can only watch the intense violent psychodramas when there's no chance of a sunny day.

Collette, you're a woman after my own heart because I find it incredibly difficult to watch all of those crime dramas which I love when it's sunny outside. You do have to wait for I think it's apart from anything else I have to wait until I know that I've locked all the doors and shut all the windows. You've taken every precaution and then. And then you can settle down. OK. I actually finished, it's been a very highly acclaimed novel called The Coast Road, if you heard of it, by an Irish writer called Alan Murin and it's set in Ireland before

divorce was possible and just before the referendum in Ireland on the subject of divorce. I mean it's terribly good but but God, I found it depressing. I just wonder if anyone else has read it. It's very, it's one of those very good books that you put down and you think, well, I'm very glad I read that, but could I honestly say... You enjoyed it. You'll love this, read this book, because I'm not sure I could, which isn't to say it's not brilliantly done, because it is. And I suspect that would make a very good windswept drama.

It would actually, it'd almost be easier to see than to read. Interesting. I'll put that out there. Okay. Are you going to do Colin from accounts? A lot of people have mentioned it and I don't know why I haven't been drawn to it. Don't know, don't think so. Dog on wheels. That's important because we're doing dogs today. We are doing dogs today, yes, we're doing dogs today. Our guest is Louise Glazebrook, who's one of the top dog whisperers. In fact, I think she is our generation's Barbara Woodhouse.

Have I got her name right? Barbara Woodhouse, yes. Won't mean much to anybody under the age of 45, I don't think. She was a little lady, cut from our own cloth and she was extremely brisk. She was. And what was her catchphrase? Walkies! Walkies! Yeah. She was the share of her day in many ways. She was the share without the vocal cords. We did have quite a theme on the programme yesterday of people who wanted advice. It wasn't a theme we wanted, was it really? It was one of those things that it really did take a savage conversational turn. But I thought it was very funny, Jane, because we do spend quite a lot of time really thinking about our afternoon show. You shouldn't think about it.

And trying to work out what a talking point would be in order to throw it out to our lovely listeners, to have a kind of concurrent theme running through the programme. And inevitably it's the throwaway stuff that then takes off. And yesterday we did definitely, we were trying to talk about smartphones in schools, that's a very, very important topic of conversation, you can email us about that if you want to. But actually people really just wanted to talk about dogs eating shit. So there were many, many more correspondents who either wanted to report in their dogs,

I felt a bit sad for the dogs, or to ask for advice because it is a little bit worrying and disturbing. But a lot of dogs are doing it. And unfortunately, because we'd already done the interview with Louise, I couldn't put that particular problem to her. It is simply a very natural behavior for dogs, isn't it? Well, it's because they can smell food within the feces, and I've now adopted a more medical approach to this. But it's not good for them because they do then tend to vomit it up, as you would.

Is there anyone still listening? Is there anyone still listening? We should say that Louise and I gathered, I was looking at the book this morning actually that book, I don't have a dog and I'm not thinking of getting one because I understand the awesome responsibility and I haven't got the time in my life at the moment. But she mentions the fact that some people right from the get-go let their dog sleep in the bed. Yes. Now that, I have to say, I was surprised. What do you think about that? I wouldn't ever do that. Nancy sleeps in a separate bed at the bottom of the bed and sometimes hops in of a morning,

you know, for a quick cuddle. But I don't think that that's right. And personally, I think it is really unhygienic because there are little bits and pieces on a dog that you wouldn't really... On all of us? Yes, they would. It's not just the dog who's in peril. It's very true, Jane. It's very true. But I feel that's a little bit too close for me.

But I know lots of dog owners who do. They absolutely love it. Not just on the bed, but in it. Under the duvet, in the bed. It's not for me. Is it not for you? No. No. But I think, I mean, you do like a cool, calm and collected solo bedchamber, don't you? I like a bedchamber free of all activity.

Yes. Canine or otherwise. I don't think it's always been that way. Well, it certainly is now. Right. Shall we just have a little bit of a criticism about Jeanette Manrara? Oh yeah, because I think this is interesting. So I think we should acknowledge it.

Yep. So this one comes in from Alexandra who says, I'm a long time listener to the podcast. I look forward to the guest interviews from the afternoon radio show, but I was disappointed by your aggressive approach to the Jeanette Manrara interview. Fee's tone in introducing the guest was rude and unnecessary. Can I just say actually that that's Jane, the other one's me because it wasn't my guest yesterday was it? No we both talked to Jeanette but yeah yeah I got it according to our correspondent I got the it was all wrong yes but I don't think that your introduction to her was rude in I wasn't no in anyway

So anyway, let's just put that out there and Jane and fees persistent questioning to a presenter Whom they know is neither the producer or the director of the show was puzzling I'm surprised as previous BBC employees that they would treat a guest in that manner Well done to Jeanette for handling the interview with the professionalism missing in her hosts. Shame on you ladies. So shall we just address that one and take it on the chin Jane? Well I think it's just worth saying that there is it's ludicrous to pretend that there aren't issues around that program. Now those issues are not the responsibility of Jeanette but nevertheless she is best known for being part of it and it's very much a machine isn't it Strictly. Let's be clear

about that everyone who's been on it has not quite signed their life away to protect it but they are part of the Strictly organisation and they're all full of the eyes and teeth of the strictly glitter ball. But it's not a perfect world, as we've discovered. And did any of us really think it was? I mean, you've always thought it was a somewhat, how can I put this, a world with imperfections, as all worlds have. Yeah, I've always just thought it's a world of artifice. Yeah, well, yes.

And so I haven't found it very comfortable. But I also think, sorry to interrupt, but I also think it's a world of artifice. Yeah, well, yes, yeah. And so I haven't found it very comfortable. But I also think, sorry to interrupt, but I also think it's a joy-bringer. You know, I have loved watching it over the years, genuinely. So I am very, I've never quite known what I think about it as I think I've just illustrated. But to have Jeannette on the programme yesterday and not ask her about some of the more difficult issues around the programme would have been really peculiar. Yeah, I completely agree. Whether we were on the BBC or anywhere else. And I think that for me is one of the problems.

I don't think that we should allow anybody involved in Strictly. I mean, it's not off the hook, but to kind of only take the good stuff, because it is just troubling what appears to have been going on at the moment. I mean, I didn't think that you were too aggressive in your interviewing at all, and I think it is interesting to hear somebody's perspective. And it did make me think, OK, well, actually, if you are a celebrity stepping into that this time around, you probably have Raked self over the coals a bit as to whether or not you want to be involved and you've decided to go for it So I completely take her point

Yeah That they're allowed to run with the positivity of it and hopefully it can get back on track The problems have been sorted out and all that kind of stuff, but you wouldn't have been doing your job I think if you hadn't challenged her about it. I think it's very fair. And I would like to hear from more people involved in Strictly what they think. Well, over the years we have talked, one of our problems is, just to be totally transparent, is that we do know things about it that people have told us. So we can't mention those things now, but we can't unknow them either, can we? So I think it's a really difficult area this.

I think we've probably made clear. But I think you should always stay on the side of being challenging and I think Jeanette's enough of a professional. She is a total professional. Very gifted, very gifted dancer. gifted dancer, highly professional lady. And I thought it was interesting to hear her view on it too. Oh yeah, completely. So I'm sorry, I'm not denying your criticisms at all there Alexandra, and if it was an uncomfortable listen for you, then absolutely. You know, I'm sorry about that, but I don't think you should change.

No, I just, I don't... It don't think you should change. No I just I don't it's not Jeanette's fault of course we wouldn't have on the program anyone who was bearing any of the blame because they're not going to put themselves forward for interview and also Jeanette was promoting a book that people may well buy on the strength of connecting her to this program, which is how she has made her name in this country. When you watch Strictly, when it starts in a couple of weeks time, how will you feel if nothing about the dark side of Strictly is acknowledged or referred to? Well, this is, I suppose we ought to say the alleged dark side because the bullying investigation report that the BBC is supposed to have initiated has yet to report. I think it's a bit odd.

I mean, I'm not sure. I tend to sort of start watching mid-November when it gets a bit like you with your crime dramas. I have to wait until I can fully shut the curtains and possibly put the gas coal effect fire on. And then I can enjoy Strictly with a glass of Prosecco over Saturday night. Prosecco, very sweet.

Okay, not Prosecco. Carver. Not Carver. But, bubbles. So, what was your question? Will you feel, how will you feel when you watch it? Just, yeah, I don't know, because am I a bog-standard viewer? No, because I'm probably in possession of too many unhelpful facts.

But I'll still watch it. So look, look at me, a mass of contradictions. Aren't I wacky? Aren't you just? I've annoyed Verna as well. I've left her a bit confused as to why I was disgruntled at the BBC's provision of the action line details after each episode of Sharewood. But Verna goes on to say, but then Alison Lappers interview wasn't preceded by a trigger warning or provision of a support line for bereaved

parents. Maybe Times hasn't got a support line for this purpose. Well we do actually we do have a feedback email which we do put out if we believe that an interview that we're going to do might trigger something in people listening. So maybe it's our bad that we didn't mention that regarding Alison Lapper's interview. But I suppose the point about the action line after Sherwood is I've just not seen it being put up there after fictional depictions of violence before. Do they have to put it out after every single drama? After every World War Two drama?

Yep, that has violence in it. Every time they play out the guns of Navarone, the action lines go. Were you or anybody you know affected by the Second World War? Call this line, it's just, it's a bit ridiculous. I think they'll put it up after Strictly. Right, you've a bit ridiculous. You think they'll put it up after strictly? Right, you've gone too far. Um, Lyn says you haven't mentioned Shewadiwadi for a while.

Oh, well, contractually we can only mention it twice a year and I'm not sure whether going forward I want to mention it at all. The chap who used to be the lead singer, the one with the long hair, the dark glasses and the long jackets, lives down the bottom of our road at the posh end. He's very nice. My husband sees him in the pub. Thank you, Lynne. That's very good, isn't it? Under the moon, I've loved. Yes. Are they tiger feet?

No, that was mud. No. Sandwiches. Sarah says, I thought I'd let you know, I tried that Wensleydale and carrot chutney. That's old news. Sarah, I've moved on to the limited edition chicken shawarma wrap. I don't know how limited that edition is because it seems pretty available every single day at the moment. I don't think Sarah was overwhelmed by the Wensleydale and

carrot chutney. She went two days with it to make sure but she says I will raise you the pret, sourdough, ham, butter and gherkin roll. I did try to recreate that lunch at home as I don't actually live near a pret but it's impossible to get it quite the same. Now that is interesting because I've also, Sarah you and I should get together because I've also tried to create restaurant and not restaurant but chain sandwiches in your home. You can't do it. I think the ham in that sandwich... It's the ham, is it? Is it the butter? Well, it's a nice ham. It reminds me of my mother's Christmas ham.

Oh yeah, the one that you do with the... does your mum do it with the coke? Bottle of coke? The Nigella Coke? My mum and fizzy drinks? No. Are you absolutely mad? They're banned from the house. Oh god, I'm so sorry. I'm only allowed to crack them open when I'm 60. I've been banned for a very long time. But also can I just say that that particular pret sandwich, the butter is of equal measure to both the ham and the gherkin. I think that's what makes it so delicious. It's a slab. I don't think I've ever had that sandwich. Well, what a world we have to discover. special back to school offers. They'll leave you with more cash in your pocket for the stuff you love. Select plans even include data overage protection so you can go all

out without going over. Don't wait. Our back to school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. Dog lovers, Vy. We're all dog lovers. We are all dog lovers. Things have got a little bit awry at the moment in this nation of dog lovers, though the number of dogs left with charities and rescue centres is at an all-time high. Many people who sought refuge from the loneliness and horror of the pandemic got a dog but regretted it later and instances of dog attacks are on the rise in a big way too. 23 deaths since 2021 before that there were only a couple a year. Now the XL Bully has been held

responsible for many of those fatalities and now that breed of dog is illegal to own unless you get a certificate of exemption for them. So where are we at with our canine friends? One woman can tell us Louise Glazebrook knows her dogs, she's a dog trainer and kind of an owner trainer too. Get the right dog for the right person in the right circumstances and your life is joyful. Get any of those wrong and it's awful. Her latest book is called Everything Your Puppy Wants You To Know and this is why she's written it. I think one of the overarching reasons of why I've written this book, apart from people needing it and wanting it and asking for it, this sounds harsh. I've got quite sick of

men telling us what to do with puppies in a harsh way and acting like they are ready to take over the world and we have to use harsh dominating methods because I don't believe in that. There's a nicer better way. So the nicer better way is to respect the fact that you've got a little creature that still needs something quite maternal around them actually. Yeah, I think we've forgotten exactly that, that there are baby animals that are coming into our home. It's like communicating with an alien in that we can forgotten exactly that, that there are baby animals that are coming into our home. It's like communicating with an alien in that we can't understand them, they can't understand us.

So we're both learning about each other. And then we have this nurturing part, which is slowly being eroded because everyone's telling us things like they need to be created, they can't have any freedom, you need to put them in their place, they need to know what to do, they need to know who's boss. And I just find it really sad that this is what people are thinking that they have to do, when actually we can nurture them, we can love them, we can be kind, we can put boundaries in. And I kind of see it a little bit like having with children, in that we can have boundaries, but we can still be lovely and kind and enjoy them. So is there not a danger that you then create a very very needy and overly dependent adult

dog? No because the point should be that we have boundaries in place. So it's not a kind of, I see these things on Instagram all the time which really make me laugh, you know the kind of what the gentle parent says and then what my mum would say and it's you know like the other version of the mum screaming and you know that kind of thing. It's not that we're saying that they can just run amok and do whatever they want, it's that what we're saying is that there can be boundaries to teach them to be separate, that you can go for a bath on your own, that they can't come everywhere with you and they need to

walk nicely on the lead and they need to listen to you in the park but we don't have to have them on a choke chain we don't have to be yanking them we don't have to be shouting at them we don't have to be pointing fingers and pushing them to make them do things. Is it a simple fact that there are more dogs in this country now owned by people than there have ever been before? I mean lockdown was a massive change in that the millions of dogs that we saw coming through was unprecedented so I'm sure that that probably is right. I think that we obviously since lockdown people's lives have changed forever and so I have lots of clients now online and in person who have now got dogs

that they would never have been able to have before. And there was a terrible time wasn't there when people realised that they did have to go back to work and that the dog really wasn't for them and lots of the dog charities did report the most distressing number of pets being left outside their offices, returned to them. I mean it was a bit heartbreaking wasn't it? It was and actually rescue is still in an appalling state. You know in the book I talk about choosing a rescue puppy and what to look for. But I think with rescue it's really difficult because we just don't really seem to be making any progress on,

you know our aim should be that actually we are reducing the numbers of dogs in rescue, not that it's increasing and we just don't seem to be, that just doesn't, that doesn't seem to be happening because I think people are still choosing the wrong dogs, they're still not understanding what dog suits them, they're still not understanding what that puppy or rescue dog or adult dog requires from them and that's fundamentally what we need to change in order to stop dogs going into rescue. Some people are making huge amounts of money as well aren't they out of nasty breeding

and giving puppies quite a hard time breeding them the wrong way. I mean it's quite a scandal isn't it? Oh I mean I think if most people actually understood the reality of what puppy farmers and puppy dealers are doing, not only would they be heartbroken, but I think they would be absolutely appalled because every you know, a lot of people use those words, but I don't think they actually understand what those things mean. What do they mean? Well, I mean, a puppy dealer, we have puppy dealers that will pose as, you know, a mum with kids or grandparents or whatever,

and they will literally rent homes or rent spaces to take the puppies from the farm, put them into a home situation. People will visit over the course of a week, pick a puppy, those dogs will be returned back to a puppy farm until the day that you pick them up. So we've got all of these people pretending to be good breeders. So it's making it so much more difficult. Then we've got the online aspect, which is where people are falling for what people say online and not understanding that we do need to go and visit, we need to question, we need to do, I mean, I kind of joke, but you need to be like Sherlock Holmes. You've

got to be doing a lot of research to make sure that who someone says they are is actually the truth. So what are the basics that you think people still don't know? I think people are not understanding that we as humans have bred dogs for thousands of years for purposes. And when you are selecting a dog, you need to understand whether that dog's purpose is something that you want. So a really good example is something like a Jack Russell. Great little dogs, really agile, happy, funny, mischievous, but they're also fast, agile, designed to kill, be independent, not listen, and make decisions really quickly. Which are all great, if that's what you want, but if you're looking for the dog that walks next to you, looks up at you all the time,

of course we can train that, but we have bred them for thousands of years to do those jobs, so we can't then be angry that they're doing it. I think that's the biggest thing, that if we understood that, we could make some really good decisions. It's like dating, isn't it Louise? Yes, it is. It's literally like dating.

It's like, are you right for me? No, I love the look of you, but maybe not right now. It's that kind of thing, it is. Yep, and I know that you must be asked this so often, it's very difficult isn't it, but I mean is there a good breed of dog that we should head towards that perhaps doesn't get the right kind of... Doesn't get a look in. Yes, you know, brand awareness at the moment. I see an awful lot of miniature dogs where I live, which is, I mean, pretty much central London, so the park space is small. So people have gone for very small dogs, particularly Dachshunds,

and they're having a hard time with them because actually they need way more exercise than some much bigger dogs. And I think it goes back to the breed reasons. So with mini Dachshunds, again, bread to go down holes alert you that they found something. So the vocalisation, as in the barking, really noisy and then people are like, oh but they're great for living in apartments. Well size wise, yes, but they're not a lap dog, they're not designed to be lap dogs, they were designed fundamentally for something.

I think then the other thing we've got at the moment with miniature Dichard Axons is everyone trying to breed them for a different colour. So you look at dapples and you look at the creams. When we start breeding specifically for colour, it means that those breeders are putting temperament and putting health to the side, which then is a fundamental problem with the dog that you're going to end up with. Yeah, they look beautiful but... They do, yeah. I mean to answer your question in terms of Breeze, it's really difficult because I often get asked about what's a great family dog and the difficulty is is that what my family is is going to be different to someone else's family. I think if we're looking in London, a dog that has made a brilliant leap from being in the borders of Scotland to across London and being a really happy, healthy, funny dog is the border terrier.

They're amazing. They are playful, lovable, but they are also the terrier. They're designed to chase, they're designed to be busy, but they're also great family dogs. Is there any dog that is happy to stay in somebody's house all day and just wait very quietly and patiently for their owners to come home? I mean, maybe if they're dead. I just, I can't, I was literally trying to think is there anything, you know, at the moment I've got a 14 year old dog and an 11 year old dog and the 14 year old dog is still like a four year old in that I'm, I still have to, he still needs two hours walks a day. We're still playing in

the evening. I'm still picking them out in the garden with bones. I'm still doing tricks. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I just don't think that they exist. And if you want that, maybe get a cat. Yeah, exactly. They come and go, don't they? Don't get a dog. Yeah. The XL bully thing has been so problematic for so many people. Where do your sympathies and your sentiment lie

with regards to the breed? I think we're in a... I feel like generally as a society we are in a big hole and I'm not... I don't know how we're going to get out of it because I think we are, once again, not looking at what humans are doing. So humans are creating dogs. Humans are breeding them, training them, socializing them, walking or not walking them. A dog doesn't get the choice about what the human does with them. And I think we are not looking at the type of people that are breeding some of the dogs that have been involved in the ones that you see in the news. There are a gazillion incredible extra large bullies who are amazing.

I'm a massive fan of bull breeds. But I think fundamentally, all that's going to happen is after the extra large bully there's going to be something else. You know when I was in the 1980s it was the Doberman, the Rottweiler and the German Shepherd that in the news they would talk about now it's bull breeds it's going to move on to something else and if we're not careful we're just going to end up banning all of these dogs but we're not actually working at the ground level to figure out the people that are creating and causing the problems.

I mean you're absolutely right to draw attention to the same arguments that we've been having about dangerous dogs and they have gone on and on and on and any dog put in the wrong situation, provoked the wrong way can be dangerous but is it not a simple fact that if you've bred a bulldog to be that size, I mean outside of what it shouldn't normally have been, you are asking for trouble. They do need to be controlled, don't they? Well the difficulty is that they're not actually a breed, they're a combination of many breeds, so you could have someone that's had a happy accident, you can have obviously people that

are maybe intentionally breeding them for particular purposes. But years ago, when we had combinations of dogs, they would have been mongrels, which is why the extra large bully debate, I think, is also an even harder one to quantify because when all of it was going through, I had so many people contacting me that were absolutely panic stricken because when you looked at the guidelines, the guidelines were so vague and could actually incorporate so many cross breeds because it was all just to do with the kind of size of the head or how tall they were. And I think that fundamentally, again, we're just not looking at why do these people want to breed dogs and make money. No matter what the breed is, we just do not have a grip in this country on breeding.

You've only got to look at the insemination clinics that we've got going on, which are just grim. And do you think most people know what the law is about dogs? I mean the dangerous dogs act which did come in to deal with some of those breeds that you've previously mentioned. I don't think as a dog owner I really know exactly what's on it now and what I should or shouldn't be able to do or report if I see a dangerous dog. I think that's a really good point. I was having a conversation with someone yesterday who was talking about, she's got four dogs, she was out walking them, hers were all only,

there was a dog that was scaring them in the park. And we were talking about how, and I was sort of saying to her, actually, you could report that an out of control dog can be any breed. And I think people don't understand that, that actually you can have a Chihuahua, you can have a Jack Russell, you can have a Bordertaria, a Greyhound, literally doesn't matter.

Any breed can be an out of control dog. So if it makes you feel threatened, if you feel scared about what is going to happen, you can report them. The difficulty is, is it's then getting the police to take it seriously and making sure that you actually get to speak to a police officer who understands dogs and understands those circumstances because that I find is one of the hardest things.

Right, so you could report any situation where you felt that somebody might be harmed by a dog irrespective of the breed, but you could also report a breed if you saw it out and about in a park without a muzzle? Well, it's difficult with the breeds because something like a pit bull terrier is actually, which is why the government have DLOs, which are dog legislation officers, that are trained to be able to measure, identify and assess whether a dog meets that criteria. Most of the general public aren't going to be able to do that, but I think fundamentally, if we as a nation were actually looking more about temperament and trainability, I think we would have a very different landscape for dogs anyway, because if our fundamental reason for selecting a dog

was because their temperament is ideal for family living, being around other dogs, being adaptable, imagine what the dogs we would bump into on a daily basis would be like. But it's not. What we're doing is we're selecting them because of colour, we're selecting them because of colour, we're selecting them because they have how they look, we're selecting them because we've managed to find one really quickly on Instagram. Those are not the things that are going to get you a really good dog and that's what I mean in terms of I just think we're in this

hole and I'm just not quite sure how we're going to get back out of it. Did you ever get your St Bernard? Because. Because this was your Christmas wish, wasn't it? Every Christmas when you were a child. It's a big dog to ask for Louise. It was, it was. And no, I don't. But I still look at them on rescue websites. I did have a great day and we did have a great day and he was 65 kilos.

That's huge. And he was, I know, he was incredible, Fred. Yeah, he was amazing. But no, I don't I mean it's still I'm a massive believer in that you I say this to clients you get dogs according to the stage of life that you're at. As in at the moment my kids are 11 and 9. I love Hungarian visitors. I adore them. But right now I know that I don't have the, you know, kind of three hours a day plus everything else that I know that they need. So maybe,

I don't know, when I'm retired, I don't think actually I'm ever going to retire, so maybe just when I'm, I don't know, what I'll be doing, but there'll be a St Bernard at my feet. Louise Glazebrook, so if you've got a puppy, you're thinking of getting a puppy, you know somebody who's about to get a puppy, then do try and grab a hold of her book because it's important to get it right. I think that's the general message of the interview. Yes, and do you think she will get her St Bernard? I think she will, yeah. I mean they're monster dogs,'t they? They're just comical dogs, they're so big.

Would they need a lot of walking or are they half dogs? I honestly don't know Jane. I honestly don't know. I mean it is weird because sometimes the biggest dogs do need the least exercise so maybe St. Bernard. Yeah because Nancy's not massive on huge walks. No she just does one walk a day and then she sleeps. Yeah, lovely. Just sleeps. Oh, St. Bernard. I don't think I'll... No, St. Bernard. I mean, I wouldn't want that in my bed.

Are you sure? No, I really wouldn't. Okay. Well, Big Dog, Small Dog. I mean, it's incredibly contentious stuff. We always used to have a bit of a joke back at one of the radio stations that both Jane and I worked at. Jane launched it, in fact. Much good it did it. It was time to pack up and go home if anybody suggested that the mid-morning phone and should be big dog or small dog. What's your favorite biscuit? Susan says, I would be grateful if I could get some advice on how to stop our four-year-old labradoodle

barking during car journeys. She doesn't mind getting in the car. She likes being in the car. But if we slow down at junctions or traffic lights, she gets excited and won't stop barking. I feel like we've tried everything. It's great if we're on a motorway and we don't have to slow down like Sandra Bullock in Speed, but on normal roads and short trips,

she's just a pain. Woof, she ends it. Okay, let's put that one out there. Could you help Susan? That reminds me of, you know, small, are my small children when they were in, but they're not small, well they are small, but they're not young, when they were in the car as kids, they couldn't bear it if the car stopped. They were all right if we were moving, but any kind of delay, they'd start screaming. Oh yes, yeah. So you know, you had a nightmare on the M40 and oh god, that would be hideous.

So maybe Labradoodles just, they don't like having their time wasted any more than the rest of us do. That's going to give me a nightmare now about speed. I hated that film. Just because the whole concept of having to, oh. Yes, I mean it's just every... It's really frightening. It's every person's travel nightmare, isn't it, that you can't stop?

That's one of my anxiety dreams. I just can't stop. I'm running somewhere and I need to slow down. I just can't stop. OK, this is another... You are going to think I'm crackers now, but it's just reminding me, thinking about buses. Have you ever tried... And don't laugh. Have you ever tried to take a picture on your smartphone of a bus? Thank you, Hannah.

No. Right, well what happens is, and maybe this is just me, but I'm not sure it is, I was with my daughter the other day at a local bus station and we don't take photographs of buses normally, but for some reason we want to take a picture. I'm not someone who goes down to collect chassis numbers. Well, I used to, but I don't do it now. Anyway, we tried to take a picture of the bus with the smartphone and you can't do it because the bus numbers just rotate really speedily.

Trust me, they do. If you try to take an image on your smartphone of a bus in London, the bus, it just goes round and round and round and you can't, you cannot capture the number of the bus. It's so weird. No, but don't you just wait for the number to come up? I mean, they're flicking it round to get to the right number. They're not constantly flicking it. It's when you try to focus your smartphone on it. I swear it just rotates and rotates and you can't take a picture.

I don't know what it is, but that's absolutely true. Right, well I know what my challenge after work is. I'm going to take the 149 home and I'm just going to photograph. So you mean on the front of the bus? Yes. Where it says the number. Yes, and the destination. And that's static all the way through until it gets right up to the top of the Bulls Pond Road.

You try taking an image of that at the bus stop and see what happens. Okay, do you believe in the moon landings? There's something about the flag, isn't there, that, you know, put the stars on. Are we seeing the way it... No shadows. Okie dokie, well look, we've thrown quite a lot out to you. If you're in bed at the moment, you were just dropping off to sleep, don't get up and do the bus thing now, just save it for tomorrow, send us your pictures.

Just tell you St Bernard to shove up. Yep, maybe it'll be different outside of London, maybe it's different if you're on a low energy plus bus. Do send us your pictures, Jane and Fee, at Times.Radio. I don't think she's well. ["Sweet Home"] Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday,

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