Off Air... with Jane and Fi - It's one of my little icks (with Larry Lamb)

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Once the effects of half a paper cup of Kylie Minogue's Prosecco have worn off, Jane and Fi discuss school prizes, knowing your limitations and coronation themed snacks.They're joined by actor Larry Lamb, about the show B&B By The Sea and a Gavin and Stacey reunion.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

yes go for it an unusually assertive start to our week we're not normally go for it people which is one of the reasons people listen the last thing they need is sort of you know enthusiasm well i tell you what i've had a little sip of Beefy Botham's wine and I've matched that with a great big gulp of Kylie's Prosecco and I'm away with the fairies now. forget um some which bits you can't forget some of his i mean his shenanigans over the years uh beefy and i hate the nickname um not just because i live in a vegan household although i do eat beef myself um it's sort of it's all testosteroney thing it gets on my wick a bit really but um but he he did he did get into the tabloids for some, shall we say, liaison. With some, I have to say, very willing co-conspirators. But some of the texts that he would send them.

Encouraging texts, I think it's fair to say. Quite funny. And I can remember some of them. Wish I couldn't. Word for word. I so wish I couldn't. Anyway, welcome back. Glad you're here. It's very nice to be here

yeah i'm sorry about the slightly bumpy ride uh over the last couple of weeks uh we've had well you had a holiday didn't you so you've had fill-ins and then i went off on the sick and then i came back and i had to go away again and i've come back i'm going to try and make it to the end of this week serious point alert what we need to acknowledge with Covid which is what you've had um is that it's it's not an instant recovery is it and I wonder whether because there's a general sort of a tendency to be quite gung-ho about Covid now oh yeah I've had Covid again but actually it's nasty yes I would completely agree with that and I didn't really take, I didn't take it seriously enough, actually, Jane. I thought, oh, I've had COVID, but nobody really has dangerous

COVID anymore. So I'll just feel rubbish for a couple of days, I'm sure it'll pass. And it just didn't, actually. So thoughts and prayers, if you've got COVID at the moment, my advice would be just spend that extra day at home before rushing back into work. Or if you can, and it's not easy for everybody, just don't do anything. Yeah. So actually yesterday, because I really did want to come back to work today, I think for the first time in a very, very long time, actually, I'm not sure I did this the first couple of times I had COVID, I spent the whole day in bed not moving.

Right. To simply do that kind of, okay, okay my body needs did you not air the bed a little bit no i didn't i really didn't i did it everybody isn't it i did at one stage well now i made it and i went to have a bath so when i could come back i just get back in i can't remember the last time i've done a proper whole day in bed because i think you were the same when you had COVID a couple of years ago. Because we were all working from home anyway, we just carried on working, didn't we? When we were doing the podcast in the other place. I did one podcast where you really couldn't understand a word I was saying.

I sounded hideous and I just sounded like somebody with COVID, which indeed I had. But I have to say, I just lightly I didn't I didn't feel that ill and I didn't feel depleted it left it left my system really early but I got it at just the right time I'd relatively close to a vaccination and um long after it posed a danger to those of us who'd been vaccinated so I was um I was I was basically fine and I think if I'm honest with you I'm probably due for another dose. Yes. Which I'm not looking forward to. Well, I hope you don't get it.

Well, I obviously hope I don't get it either because it's not anything to be taken lightly. I know some young people just sort of brush it off, but I don't think even every young person does. Right. Our big guest today is Larry Lamb, and we'll hear from him in a moment. But we wanted to address the email that I said last week I'd keep really for a considered response for fees return and it's from our listener who is approaching their 60th birthday and feels that life hasn't quite lived up to expectations. They say that they find it hard to justify much celebration as I don't consider myself to have made a success of adult life. This person has a maths degree from Cambridge and they say that they gradually moved myself down

the career ladder rather than up. I found it hard to build the kind of good friendships I enjoyed when I was younger. I very much failed to fulfill my apparent potential and have caused a certain amount of collateral damage to myself and others along the way. The question now is what direction should I take? Should I resign myself to underachievement, that's their word, and aim to lead a small but safe life? Or should I keep trying to accomplish something more significant at the risk of further anxiety and disappointment? something more significant at the risk of further anxiety and disappointment. Gosh, it's a lot, isn't it? It is a lot. So what would your advice be?

Well, first of all, I'm sure I said this last week. First, you've got a degree in maths from Cambridge. I'm not going to have that, listener. Nor is Fiona here. I wonder, though, with Oxbridge, I'm sure I've said this before too, whether it can just... It is such an achievement that for quite a few people in Britain, it is the pinnacle of their existence. And they might feel afterwards that after three wonderful years in truly beautiful places, surrounded by other beautiful and incredibly gifted other young people taught by the best minds in Britain. Can the rest of your life honestly live up to that I wonder whether it ever could really but also um taking a chance at any stage in life

um it's not easy is it and you do risk failing I remember you and I talking about whether or not we should come here and whether if it was an almighty flop we just feel like a pair of buffoons but we did still still time and there's still time for that to happen um so we need there's a you get to a certain age and i am 50 nearly 59 god um and you do wonder oh lord do i want to take another chance but this but i think this listener is being incredibly hard on themselves and i suspect that they've also they have achieved a whole thing string of things that perhaps they haven't included in that email but I'm sure they have in fact I think I would agree with all of that and also just add something which may just seem so obvious but we do live in a world

where people who can shout shout the loudest get the most attention it's squeaky wheels get the most grease syndrome isn't it and actually i'm not sure that you ever know somebody else's true contentment but we are led to believe that contentment is very much to do with being visible and being out there and having a career and having these measures of success you know that other people can see and I'm not sure whether that equates to a happy life lots of people will tell you that it does but that's them trying to justify their choices and I'm so sad to hear that you think your life has been a kind of diminishing one because I think maybe you could take a lot of strength from the fact that you've made safe choices along the way in life and there's

nothing wrong with a safe choice that doesn't mean that it's you know a less valid way of living or a less successful way of living at all but you're just caught up in a world where you know what you do on the outside is definitely still valued more than what you do on the inside so I'd hate I'd hate you to be feeling bad and not want to take another leap I mean if you don't want to take another leap I think that's a really good thing don't do it if it's if it's too scary there's absolutely nothing wrong in staying safe you know the book that i really never got on with was the feel the fear and do it anyway thing oh because actually the wisest people are often people who know what their limitations are and stay very very well within their comfort should we write a book called

know your limitations feel no fear and know your limitations but i think i think you and i have stay very very well within their comfort zones. Should we write a book called Know Your Limitations? Feel no fear and know your limitations. But I think you and I have got a slightly strange kind of jump off a cliff confidence. You say that you don't but you must have in order to have done all the things that you've done. In some ways but I'm also a quite anxious individual as are most people yes but you like a challenge oh i like a challenge and you enjoy your ambition yes because otherwise you would have you know got to a certain point and gone you know i'm not going

to challenge myself anymore i'm not going to go any further because it is all scary out there yeah it is go but have you got livia's email oh i love livia's email yep yeah uh so livia uh who's been a long time listener actually and it's very nice to hear from you uh and she says i have a modern languages degree from cambridge i never ever go to reunions for much the same reason as the listener described i'm not a consultant or barrister or ceo or head honcho of anything and I feel that describing my work and circumstances just doesn't have equal value I'm a self-employed typesetter a bit like graphic design but also using languages and I don't really have a career as such beyond managing to get enough work to pay the bills by myself after divorce

and raising two thoughtful and decent teenage boys who I am very proud of. And Livia goes on to say, I went to the sort of school where if you're offered a place at Oxbridge, you didn't turn it down. But she says, I wish I'd had the confidence to turn it down and to go where I really wanted to go. Steady yourself, Jane. I can't believe this. To the University of Kent. Are you sure, Livia, it wasn't birmingham to study german and film i would have been much happier probably come out more confident and i might have met fee

there i'm 54 too well we would have met olivia and i think we would have been friends as well and olivia goes on to say cambridge is great for the genuine high achievers and those who take it all in their stride and can study and socialize do sport and network without breaking into an anxiety attack. I came out of the experience somewhat shell-shocked and with a very much knocked self-confidence. And to this day, I cringe when someone asks, where did you go to uni?

As I aim to avoid answering that question at all costs. I think that's such a beautifully honest email, Livia. How interesting to put it that way. I didn't have the confidence to turn down Oxbridge. But deep in her heart, she knew that her comfort level was in a different place.

And also, there's just that beautiful, it's not even a whole sentence, it's just a subclause where you say, raising two thoughtful and decent teenage boys. And do you know what? That's a whole life, enormous achievement. It's a lasting legacy.

Yeah. You know, and I think we often do that. You know, oh, you know, I've just raised kids. Well, there's no just about it. And if they're decent and thoughtful, that's because a lot of your time and energy has gone into that as opposed to your own ego. Yes, I just, I really, yeah, I mean, Olivia, thank you. I agree with V, it's a very thoughtful email.

And in fact, all the responses to our correspondence original email have been really thoughtful. Have you got another one there? Because I'm just wanting to move on to something else. Well, I do. It's a very, it's a very long one. It's from Kate. And I suppose the bit that I would pick out is just that kind of similarity of putting yourself down

when, in fact, I would say that your life has had a lot of things in it. She says, I was sent to boarding school at nine. In the 1980s, was fed a diet of training to be a leader, whilst also a fantastic wife and mother. I didn't want any of those things, but I went to university because I didn't know how to apply for the boat building course I actually wanted to do. I came out with a first-class science degree

and then proceeded to self-sabotage for 15 years, including an early ill-advised marriage, winning a PhD quite late on and pushing myself to excel at jobs I was indifferent about. I've been with my husband for nearly 25 years and he's wonderful. The feminist in me hates the fact that I don't think I'd be here without his steadfastness and support while I built myself back up and tried to learn who I was but there we are and again I'd say don't do that down. You know if we haven't won a feminist battle, if women have been made to feel that the joy of a strong partnership is invalid by comparison to solo female achievements.

That's a wonderful thing to stay with someone for 25 years and to appreciate his support for you. And I'm sure that you're supportive of him. So, you know, we mustn't do these things to ourselves. All these lives have validity they just don't fit into a kind of public gauge of celebration no they don't i wonder whether to go back to our original um emailer it's the fact that everything now is so public including alleged gloriously happy family lives relationships achievement here's me with my latest award oh i'm so amazed to be number one in the

bestsellers gosh i've been nominated for award oh shut up i mean that's you're still probably um you know cleaning out the dryer which incidentally i did the week before last somebody has to and there's so much fluff in those compartments you get any coins didn't get any coins just got a lot of very wet stuff what is that um anyway um, what was I, why was I, it's the Prosecco. It's Kylie's Prosecco. It's had an incredible effect of what passes through my brain. There's just an awful lot of public joy out there and public, ooh, look at me, aren't I fabulous?

It's all bollocks. Everybody is coming up against something, and most people are nowhere near as deliriously happy as they make themselves out to be. So to anyone who's putting off going to a reunion, I say go and just ask people how they really are behind the mask. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but I never go to reunions either.

What have you ever done? I've never been to one, thanks. Haven't you? Actually, I've never had the chance to go. I'd definitely sign up to one would you hi there i'm jane haven't i done well i didn't get that prize for english in the upper six i still don't know why um god it's pathetic isn't it anyway um let's move on seamlessly to uh the conversation we had with lorraine kelly last week and again um some very interesting and frank

emails from you. This correspondent says that they were a police detective until about 10 years ago. So this is 10 years ago when they stopped being a detective. And they say, even then, the impact of porn culture really affected the cases I dealt with. Now, I'm just going to read this and I hope nobody's offended because this is important stuff. A lot of the time, the reports were not recorded as crimes, which I fully stand by. I once comforted a boy of 15 who'd strangled his girlfriend during sex because he'd seen it on porn and that was how it went, or so he thought, and he was in tears at the horror of it. We got the report after it had a massive go at his own father because he thought that's what he must be doing to his mother. It was heartbreaking for all concerned.

The girlfriend too was upset at what had happened but to a lesser degree. I found this rather telling of how women expect to be treated. The amount of girls I spoke to who'd effectively gone back in time to believe that sex was something to be endured for the sake of male enjoyment was phenomenal. The pressure they felt to discard their adult female bodies by getting rid of pubic hair, for example, and the belief that sex ended with the facial money shot. I'm sorry, this is quite explicit stuff. But anyway, they often felt demeaned.

But for all those teenagers and young people, the availability of porn as a primer for sex was just too easily available. And that's she goes on to say that her husband's also a former detective. And I spend a lot of time worrying about this because we have a young daughter, but also due to a lack of TV recommendations. He's told me that porn was still rife when he was younger, but it was harder to get hold of and not nearly as explicit as it is now. I read a stat in February that stated by the age of nine, 10% of children have seen porn, 27% have seen it by the age of 11. If children's first experiences of sex is porn,

how can we teach them what intimacy means in a loving relationship? Well, my thanks to that listener. I mean, they speak from real experience on the front line of quite literally policing this and as they go on to say it's not going to go away is it all of that is so monumentally depressing but so worth talking more about because as our correspondent has alluded to even within a family there's just an assumption about what sex is because there's an inability to have that chat to actually have what needs to be i think now quite a graphic conversation about what sex means what the boundaries should be what your feelings should be within sex and I don't think that that conversation and actually

just speaking as a as a parent myself amongst my circle of friends mum friends and dad friends we never talk about it with each other we will reference the fact that these are very difficult times for teenagers but the conversation then doesn't become one of anybody kind of sharing detailed accounts of what they've talked about with their children or what we might all want to talk about with our kids. Because our generation finds it very difficult. Oh, God, yeah. To have a conversation about pornography. And also because our broadcasting rules are so weird, Jane, because you can you can find all kinds of stuff. We know that on, you know, validated porn websites, but on mainstream media, you cannot mention various body parts.

You certainly won't be able to describe sex in detail. It's quite strange. There's a very, very big and rather dangerous gap, don't you think? Well, there is and that gap is being filled by all the wrong people yep so if kids can't listen to stuff like this and think oh they're going to say something of course they won't but if they can't listen to a radio station and think oh they're going to talk about stuff that i really understand and actually we have we've done some podcasts haven't we with people who are way more explicit in their content than we've been able to be in ours.

But if you can't find that chat, of course, you're just going to go and watch the porn anyway. Well, maybe actually you raise a really interesting point about whether Ofcom needs to have a word with itself. I think it does. About what's allowed and what isn't. Yeah, I think it does. Because I think that, you know, otherwise, if you don't hear a chat that you think is inclusive using your words and your descriptions, you're just going to duck out, aren't you? Any teenager listening to this will have ducked out by now

because they'll think, oh, they're slightly struggling to say, oh, she apologised for using the term money shot. So they immediately think, that's not for me. That's not for me at all. What does Radio 1 do about all this stuff? Because the trouble is the listeners to Radio 1 are not that young. I think their average age is somewhere in the 40s, isn't it? So, yeah, I don't know.

Can I just do this one on the same subject? And it's a slight ticking off from Emma, but it's a really interesting point. Dear Thea and Jane, I've got nothing but love for the both of you and Lorraine, but I was deeply disturbed by the tone of Thursday's conversation about choking. It depressed me to my core to hear another conversation where women are made answerable for male behaviour, in this case questioning why bright young women are putting up with the recent and disturbing trend

of being choked during sex. This conversation needs to be flipped. Why do so many men think it's acceptable to spring such violent sexual practices on women in the first place? And she goes on to say, Fee decried how awful for a whole generation of young men to be experiencing their sexual pleasure through the submission of women. Awful, says our correspondent, yes, but not blameless.

This level of sympathy should be given to those victims of this disturbing trend too. I felt this was sorely lacking in your conversation. Well, Emma, I suppose the thing that we would say is that this doesn't appear to be something where victim perpetrator is being played out in sex. It's actually just a much more common thing that's happening within a consensual relationship without any connotation of BDSM. Is that the right acronym? I think so. I think you're right. It is consensual. God, I hope it is.

In some cases we know it's not. But the thing that really surprised us was the fact that it is just such a part of the playbook. When it didn't used to be. When it didn't used to be. When it didn't used to be. So I'm not kind of trying to make excuses for the way that we were talking about it, but I think that's the bit that I had to get over in my head, actually.

This wasn't some kind of role play going on. This is just what younger people feel is the norm. Or a norm. Yeah, if we are struggling, and we probably are struggling a little bit to find the word but that's kind of what this podcast is all about and that's what we set out to do when we started doing it which is that this is going to be a safe

space, mock all you like but we are going to try to talk about all those things that nobody else is prepared to talk about never have I been more grateful for Larryry lamb yes larry lamb he's a spring lamb and he's recently changed i don't like the term spring lamb because you just see them gambling around don't you yes yeah immediately anyway um the actor larry lamb

he's recently checked into one of my favorite shows v found it i suspect just a tiny bit formulaic that's b and b by the c it's an absolute stalwart it, I suspect, just a tiny bit formulaic. That's B&B by the Sea. It's an absolute stalwart. It's only because they had a scroll. So, you know, when the guest, they have that and come down with me, don't they? They unroll a scroll. I just, I don't know.

It's just, it's one of my little icks. Okay, well, B&B by the Sea is on iPlayer and I think it's on BBC Two as well. And it's a very simple format where somebody off the box goes to a Victorian magnificent Victorian villa on the coast in Northern Ireland I think it's in County Derry it's absolutely beautiful really is a great location and Sharon is the lady who's the host there's Rory the driver who wears a funny hat and there's a lovely lad called Alex in the kitchen there's somebody in the garden and they just cook a lovely meal they chat a bit with the chef you see Sharon

fiddling about with a duster it's just incredibly satisfying and gentle and they eat and they talk and you just emerge after about 27 and a half minutes feeling a little bit happier with the world than you were when the guests checked in and they always say yes they'll definitely come back and actually I'd like to make I'd like to do a freedom of information request in a couple of years to find out if they ever do anyway who cares uh Larry Lamb has just checked into the B&B you can see that on the iPlayer but you'll also know um of course that he has been a huge star on British television for a long time he was in EastEnders Archie Mitchell got murdered.

He was in Gavin and Stacey where he didn't get murdered. He was Mick Shipman. And he also wrote a very successful memoir, actually, about his genuinely troubled childhood that was called Mummy's Boy. And we also found out he's currently putting the finishing touches. In fact, he's just submitted it, actually, to a novel. So he began by telling me, me, Jane Garvey, just how much he liked my introduction to him. Here we go. submitted it actually, to a novel. So he began by telling me, me, Jane Garvey,

just how much he liked my introduction to him. Here we go. Teamwork, kids. That was a build-up. Well, it was. Can you live up to it though, Larry? Never, ever, ever be able to live up to that. Yeah, I've been very lucky, very lucky.

You know, if you don't have luck as an actor, you know, you might as well forget it and bail out. It's so much about being, you know, the old cliche, right place, right time, meeting the right people. And it all went sort of right for me on so many occasions. Yeah, well, it did in the end, Larry. I mean, but you didn't have the easiest start did you i didn't have the easiest start no no but i think there's plenty of people around that fought their way through um from equally bad beginnings you know it's in fact

you know i don't know i don't have any people in this business who don't have something of a rocky launch, you know. It kind of helps. And I certainly did. Yeah. I mean, you grew up in Edmonton. It's one of those, I'm going to say, unglamorous parts of the outskirts of London. Doesn't get a lot of screen time, Edmonton, does it? No No my parents were a sort of they were moving around and breaking up and getting back together again over the course of about nine years and it was all in the North London area it was you know born in Edmonton lived in Enfield lived in Chesham lived in Waltham Abbey lived in Harlow back, back to Edmonton, back to Harlow. So it was, you know, a peripatetic existence with two warring parents.

Yeah. Would it be fair to say, Larry? Yeah, they were very young, weren't they? And I guess they were a post-war couple who should never have got together. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, watching all that Hollywood love stuff

and trying to recreate it when basically they should never have even met. But they did. And there you go. Here I am. Well, thank goodness for that. You're very kind. Can we briefly talk about B&B by the Sea? And there's loads of other stuff to discuss with you. But I think it has become a really popular show on BBC iPlayer.

And I think they're showing it now on BBC Two. And the idea is it's so simple. Somebody famous from a whole variety of different backgrounds just goes to a B&B. And they're treated very kindly. There's a real generosity of spirit about it all, isn't there? Yeah. I mean, it's like, if you're lucky, it's like the way you're treated when you go to stay with friends um it's in a lovely place it's a lovely position the the facilities are great and you're in an area i certainly didn't know that area of ireland at all and i've been to ireland a lot

and um and there's lots to see and they root around and find things for you to do that you get the chance to say, yeah, those are the sort of things I'd like to do. I got to cook Wagyu beef. I got to go out and see Wagyu beef on the hoof. I got to meet the farmer and his wife and his family that actually raised the beef. And I got to cook it with a top-notch chef. raised the beef and I got to cook it with a top-notch chef and I wandered along the sea coast the shore on the beach and went to Castle Rock little town yeah with a guide Rory so it was good it was lovely. You strike me as being a very approachable guy Larry do you find that all the time that people just immediately come up to you and feel like they know you and did that make it at all difficult in the B&B that people kind of

think that they're your friends even if they aren't? Look one has to take all these things as gifts far better to be an actor that everybody feels they know than ones that nobody know and having been on both sides of that equation i prefer the second um sorry i prefer the first the one that i'm involved in yeah it's uh it's part of the gig that's it and if you play characters that people relate to you you you you you mustn't be surprised and upset if people approach you and want to talk to you as if they know you. I love it. And so I've done a lot of TV where I'm out and about talking to people that I've never met about things that they like to do and that interest me. So yeah, I should be so lucky. Now, everyone will know about you as Mick Shipman in Gavin and Stacey.

And you're a bit of a suburban silver fox, aren't you, in that show? You're very much, I think you're a chap that a lot of ladies and no doubt some men rather like because you're reliable, you're unflustered. And your wife, the character played by Alison Stedman, she's quite dizzy, isn't she? She is. She is.

She's quite dizzy, isn't she? She is. She is. She's so dizzy. She's absolutely the opposite of the way she is in real life. I was going to ask you because I've interviewed Alison Stedman. You don't mess with her, do you? No, you don't mess with her. She's dead straight, Alison.

Absolutely dead straight. No, takes no prisoners. And we have a lovely time. We've done a couple of things recently together and um we you know we get on well off stage as well as on but she's a she's a straight shooter is allison and can you tell us much about the things that you've done together you've done a long car journey haven't you from barry to billericay or the other way around that's it but well barry to billericay that's it east to west That's it. Well, Barry to Billericay. That's it. East to west.

The world of Gavin and Stacey. Yeah. We did it a couple of months ago. It had been in the works for over a year. And so we started off in Barry and we met the mayor, started off in Billericay and we met the mayor of Billericay

and we met various other individuals in and around the town. We got to learn about the town. We then moved off across Essex and further into the hinterlands of the centre of Britain. We finished up at Blenheim Castle. I'm getting it all wrong today. Blenheim Palace. We had a really lovely trip. We stopped at different places along the way and tried different sorts of food in different places, met all sorts of characters.

And it was just the two of us in a car, chatting away, talking about life, reminiscing about Gavin and Stacey and going to places that were all part of the story. And this is a BBC show? Yeah. Well, no, it's not a BBC. Well, in a roundabout way, part of the story. And this is a BBC show? Yeah. Well, no, it's not a BBC. Well, in a roundabout way, I suppose it is. It's UK Gold.

That's what it is. UK Gold. And I think it goes out on Gold and sounds as if it's going to go out at the end of the summer. Would you have been able to be in a close, confined space with any of your other co-stars from Gavin and Stacey? And you are probably ahead of me here, Larry, as a clever man. I might be heading towards a question about James Corden. Are you? I'm signalling. I've looked in the mirror. I'm manoeuvring. I'm pulling out. Here we go.

There you go. James. James is a good lad. There you go. James is a good lad. You know, the thing is that James has been knocking around for years, long before I and many other people had heard about him. He's had an extraordinary career and, you know, he knows where he's going. He's extremely bright and extremely talented. But is he nice, Larry? Is he nice to everybody? We're asking you this in the spirit of, well, I suppose in the light of,

in the spirit of getting a story out of you, but also. Journalism, right? Yeah, the gossip press. You're seeking the truth. We are. Let me tell you, it's like when people say to me, who's your favourite leading lady of all the leading ladies you work for? And I know you don't answer that one because you're going to finish up in trouble well it's Alison Stedman isn't it so

that's easy enough um yeah I know but you you there's plenty of others along the line that are going to get a little bit bent out of shape about that that's true I suppose I'm interested because you know we're just a couple of days after Dominic Raab having to stop being deputy prime minister because he claims he was just exacting and people who work with him said actually he was a bit of a bit of a tyrant. There are there are people in every workplace who, frankly, don't conduct themselves that well. And you'll know as well as we do that there are stories that James Corden might possibly be one of those people. Well, he might be. But I tell you, the way that Gavin and Stacey evolved, it was very definitely a family thing. Ruth and James created it. But the dynamic is such that if anybody started chucking their weight about during the course of making that, they would get very short shrift from everybody. It didn't work like that.

So whatever's been said about James outside of what I've experienced in working with him, that may be the case. I don't know. Okay, Larry, you should have gone into the diplomatic service. Yeah, at least I'd have gotten out of Sudan before everybody else. Now he's getting political, right? That's Larry Lang with us. You're listening to Off Air with Jane and Fee, and our guest today is Larry Lang.

Now, we asked him about his memoir, Mummy's Boy, and if he'd had to think about just how much detail he was prepared to include about his difficult childhood. I think that came as I evolved into an adult within the framework of a story. Talking about what happened to me as a child, I feel is if you've experienced something that's essentially, shall we say, a kind of a negative thing, It's part of your job to pass the word on. I mean, the one thing I've learned is that, you know, parents who want to bust up,

they don't have to include the kids in the war. You know, they can run up a white flag and live in a state of truce. You don't have to have rows in front of children it it completely wrecks their confidence it it makes them question their their their their feelings for both of those parents and it it it caused me my brother and my sister a great deal of emotional damage what went on with us because nobody nobody thought anything about us it was all about those two sorting out or trying to sort themselves out yeah so talking about what happened

to me as a kid was as far as i'm concerned that was that was that was an interesting thing to do to write it all down but i certainly didn't have to think about what i'm gonna what i'm gonna talk about um and as i got older then you know got older, then it touched on other people's lives. Yes, that obviously is important. But did it help you to get it out? Yes, very definitely, very definitely. I mean, I spent a long, long time over the years in psychoanalysis with a wonderful old Jungian shrink and a wonderful old um a young

an old Freudian shrink and uh got both both ways of doing it and uh and it it did me the world of good but I I you know I I just think it's such it's it's such a shame that that more people can't have the benefit of these people's skills and knowledge to get so that you can gradually begin to understand what's going on inside you and learn to live with it. And can you ever imagine how you would be now if you hadn't been able to access that therapy? I'd be in a real I'd be in a real state. that therapy? I'd be in a real state. I mean, I'm 75 and I'm just about able to say, yeah, I think I'm on top of it. Things still put me down very quickly. You know, I can be extremely emotional. I don't quite get so wired up and fired up about things anymore because i just it's too that's too upsetting if i get if i get really angry i i just i find it it really does

upset me um but what i would be like if i hadn't gone through what i've gone through in terms of understanding really what what it meant as what i was experiencing literally from from you know from what i learned just literally from when i was inside my mum listening to the war going on outside um i don't know you know it's definitely made a big difference to me yeah it's interesting you mentioned that because you were born were you born in 1946 for i was born October the 1st, 47. 47, right, okay. Yeah. But yeah, so you'll have been around in those, and they were hard, those post-war years, weren't they? I mean, the rationing went on for years. Yeah, I still remember, you know, the rationing going on when I was a little boy. So it went on to about 54 or so. But yeah, I don't't think i mean we weren't we weren't we weren't suffering we

weren't poverty stricken anything i mean we certainly weren't rolling in it but but it was just that emotional turmoil it's just so destructive so you've said that you can't imagine life without the relationship you have with george your son now. Can you describe that a little bit? Well, thanks to his mother, I didn't wreck our relationship. My father had been badly mishandled by his father when he was a boy and he didn't know how to be a dad. And he did his best. He tried to be a dad and he did his best he tried to be a good dad you know he inspired me hugely in in history and geography the wonder of the world literature i mean he had me reading all sorts of things but he was emotionally explosive he could just he could fly off and and and really be so destructive. And I I lived with him until I was 17.

And for my mother left when I was nine. So, you know, I had eight years of him. It was toned down when we went to live with his mom. So because she ruled the roost in the house and she was an extraordinarily leveling character who he you know he had to toe the line when when old maude was on the trail um so i was very lucky there and she kind of took over the role of being a being a mother um but i had as i say i had eight years of him and in the end I just

that was it I had enough I left Do father and son relationships feature in your novel? No they don't well yes there are little touches of it in there

but it's a man who probably would, if he'd have been allowed to be a very good father himself, but he's a stepfather. But obviously extremely well loved by his stepson and deeply, deeply fond of his stepson. So, yeah, it touches on on it it's kind of like something it just evolved it evolved it was something that came out of

the way I was telling this story but it's certainly not about that father son relationship ok well we'll look out for it any idea when it's going to be published? maybe you can find me a publisher and you get a better idea. There'll be loads of publishers listening. There will actually, yes. Well, I don't know. One publisher has registered an interest and fixed me up with an editor and I've been working for the last six months with an editor

and funnily enough I just at the weekend passed on kind of like the final version of it because every time i go back and start looking at it again they're all tiny little bits i think i've got to nick that touch that move that back a bit abbreviate that you know i'm still working on it but i i actually it was grossly overwritten when I first did it. And over the course of the ensuing now three years, I've actually trimmed it right down and it makes it a totally different read. I'm looking forward to reading it. I think it sounds very interesting, Larry.

And in about 20 seconds, you, like Fi, love cold water swimming. Why? Why? Because it just, I have gotten used to being in cold water. It's as simple as that. I went away to Spain for a week, came back and I thought, I'm going to go and jump in a cold pool. And I did, expecting it to send me shrieking and jumping out.

It didn't. I just got used to it. I was talking to somebody the other day about it. I just got used to that sensation of being in cold water. It becomes addictive, doesn't it? Yeah, it is brilliant. I'm going to get Jane to try it if it kills me. Yeah, but you've got to do what I was told to do.

Start in August. Don't start in October, November. Start when it's warm. That's how I did it. I could never have done it. Well, I tell you what, I think the only thing that would get Jane to jump into a cold sea is if I said that Larry Lamb was coming on the day trip with us. You could try that.

Let's see if that works. I'll tell you what, she might get a bit of a shock. I've seen a lot in my life, Larry. Don't you worry about it. I've seen a lot. There you go. I can just imagine. Larry, lovely to spend time with you. Thank you very Larry. Don't you worry about it. I've seen a lot. There you go. I can just imagine. Larry, lovely to spend time with you. Thank you very much for talking to us.

Appreciate it. Thank you, ladies. It was lovely. So that was Larry Lamb. I thought he was really superb in ducking and diving any questions where he had to implicate or incriminate James Corden. James Corden, yeah. And I'm really looking forward to reading that book, actually. I think he's a thoughtful guy, isn't he he who's really tried to tackle some of his demons that's always

always makes for a good writer well he's had both Jungian and Freudian therapy yeah which um gosh I mean I I so he's pinged some dings and ticked some boxes he certainly has and he seems much more at ease with himself than he's been in the course of his earlier life, I guess. But I mean, it's not, you know, if you're it's such a blessing to grow up in a secure, something approaching a secure childhood home. I mean, and those of us who did have that, I can't say it, who did have that should carry on being grateful for it. You should. Yeah. if I could only speak. I just want to mention Julie.

She says, I'm sure I'm not the only member of this exclusive tribe to confirm that Adrian Mole is indeed one of Leicester's finest. Adrian is unarguably one of literature's greatest creations and I've always considered myself a contemporary of his, being 13 and three quarters when his first book came out and also from that city. Now I live a long way from what Adrian would call his ancestral homeland, as I'm a senior leader in a secondary school in Cornwall. Sometimes I think about how far I may or may not have come

each time I ask a pupil why they're wearing the wrong coloured socks, which is what Adrian was protesting about 40 years ago. Do you remember that bit in Adrian Mole? Vaguely. Oh. Well, I liked Adrian Mole. Nina Stibbe is the other Leicester author mentioned in your comic book slots. Hooray for us East Midlanders with our flat vowels, says Julie, who's now just loving it down in Cornwall.

Well, I'm imagining she is. I mean, she doesn't actually say that. I'm sure she is. I'm sure she is. And can I thank everybody who suggested any of the books by John Boyne? I hadn't made the connection. He wrote The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. Yes, he did. Yeah, but it's one of his kids' books.

But he's got about ten adult novels as well, and I'm currently reading The Heart's Invisible Furies and loving it. Quite a few people have suggested that we do need to do something where we put our books up where people can see them, because obviously when you're listening to a podcast, you haven't always got a pen and paper handy to write these things down.

Well, I think our listeners are practical. They should just get, buy a pen and buy some paper and keep it with you when you're listening. Well, I was going to say we should pop something up on the Twitter, but you'll have to do that because I've deactivated my account. But you told me I should deactivate mine. You can't have it both ways, sister. Oh, OK.

I'll put it up on Instagram then. I've only done three posts on Instagram. Do I follow you yet? It's all new and shiny. What is your name on Insta? Oh, fee.glover. Seek you out. But we should do that because it's annoying

when you can't grasp what someone's just said. Shout out to Jo. I really am. I mean, this is the impact of half a paper cup of Kylie's Prosecco. It's from Jo, who's happily listening to us on the radio, in fact, while making bunting. What a perfect combination, she says. Oh, Jo, that's lovely.

And can you see her? It looks gorgeous. Very high quality, homemade bunting that she's doing there. I was, where was I today, earlier on? Marylebone High Street in London. Do you see her? It looks gorgeous. Very high quality, homemade bunting that she's doing there. I was, was that where I was today, earlier on? Marylebone High Street in London. Do you remember that? I do, yeah. I was there and they've got all the flags up.

It looks quite jaunty down there. But other than that, I'm not seeing a great deal of hip, hip, hooray as yet. No, I did see a commemorative, large commemorative tin of biscuits in a well-known supermarket, which I thought I might buy. For the tin. But then I did think I'm buying that mainly for the tin. Yes, all right. So it'll be on sale in a couple of weeks time. So I'll wait till then.

And it will. You've still got plenty of your Scots heritage in you, haven't you? I think it's worth saying that as a, just as something, a public service really, I've been trying Coronation products. Marks and Spencer's Coronation Chicken Crisps, a big thumbs up from me, delicious. Lovely. There's a slight sort of curry tang to them.

It works a dream. Pret's Coronation Chicken Special Sandwich. No, I'm afraid. Very disappointing indeed. And it was a six out of 10. Okay. Well, you keep trying them. I'm going to make the coronation flan and bring it along to our special coronation day. I mean, it's somewhere between a parade and a show, isn't it? Between ten and one, we're on the balcony of a well-known hall looking out over the abbey.

It's going to be mucking it down with rain. So we need to bring brollies, binoculars, galoshes, hot water bottles, Gore-Tex and you will eat my flan. Right, good evening. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on on Off Air very soon.

Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know, lady. A lady listener. I know, sorry.