Off Air... with Jane and Fi - It's the-ATRE not THE-atre (with Anneka Rice and Stacey Solomon)

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Fi is joined by Anneka Rice for the final time and once again Fi is being pulled up on her pronunciation of a certain word.They also chat to TV personality Stacey Solomon about the new series of Sort Your Life Out.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Elizabeth HighfieldTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

oh oh this is it yeah this is it i'm changing my shoes because i've got to get a train and you're just sitting there in four inch high heels like you're going off to work in the pussy cat club tonight how did you know how did you where did that come from i don't know sorry it's been a long day so i've got my little platforms on because actually um look you've got a big red dollop on the end what do you think that is look yeah it looks like raspberry oh no i've trodden in a kind of raisin some kind of a dried fruit i don't like a dried fruit anyway i find my little platforms are absolutely fine i wouldn't be able to wear this raspberry jam? Oh, no, I've trodden in a kind of raisin, some kind of a dried fruit. I don't like a dried fruit. Anyway, I find my little platforms are absolutely fine.

I wouldn't be able to wear this height as a heel, Annika, but you probably don't need to think about elevating yourself. You're quite a tall lady. About two feet taller than you. You are taller than me. Much, much taller. Now, we've had lots of lovely emails this week. Thank you very much indeed. Sandra is currently 33 degrees

in southwest France. Well, Sandra, we're about 31 degrees in London town today. Loving the mix of Claire and Annika this week, I was shocked by Annika's story of her parents' disappearance when she was a child. Is this something she's mentioned in her previous interviews?

No, but actually, funny enough, I'm just gathering stuff, a memoir, and taking quite a deep dive. And boy, do you discover things that you've buried. Yeah. That's all I can say. Okay, well, we will look forward to reading about that. Do you like writing?

I love writing. I went away for three weeks and wrote 70,000 words straight off. Good Lord. Yeah. And I had such a lovely routine i got up in the morning i painted two paintings each day one in the morning before breakfast was brought to my little balcony it was a very cheap and cheerful little taverna in greece and they bought my breakfast by which time i'd done my first painting and i wrote all day in between swimming

to get some energy and then I painted before I went to bed I was on my own I'm just very happy do you like your own company when I'm working I find it very exciting because you know because then you can you can be swimming and you can think oh that's that's how I link that and that and you just you can barely get dry you haven't got time to wait for your friend and say how is your breaststroke today because you're running back to your room yeah to start typing again it's kind of weird when when the creative juices and I completely understand that and because sometimes you know with shoals of tiny fish when they dart yeah the whole

show goes off in a different direction. I always think that writing's like that. You get a little thought, and if you don't pin it down, the whole shoal's gone. You've got to run and pin it down. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Sandra. Sorry, Sandra.

Yes, we only got first paragraph into your lovely email. Love Claire's stories of her musical choices. The greatest showman soundtrack is amazing, despite Mark Kermode's claim that there wasn't a memorable track on it. Unfortunately, listening to the story of P.T. Barnum has totally put me off the movie, as he was nothing like the film made out. For all Virgin River fans, the latest series starts today,

and thanks for the Fisk recommendation. We had so many Fisk recommendations, so I'm going to persevere with that one, and thank you very much indeed for that. We've talked about so many things on the programme this week, Annika. And thank you for bringing your personal choices to the programme, actually, because that's been really lovely. We did talk about what happens to our bodies when we die today.

And for people who missed this afternoon's show, how could that be? Three to five, Times Radio, just get the app. It's all free. You have got quite a story, actually, about what you want to happen to your ashes when you die. Could you just retell it here? Oh, yes.

Well, I thought that instead of just leaving it for my kids to work out what to do, because I've been very remiss with my parents' ashes, you know, I sort of know what I ultimately want to do with them, been very remiss with my parents ashes you know I sort of know what I ultimately want to do with them but I haven't got around to it yet so being a very organized person I think I practically invented the Sasko wall planner I have decided to put my ashes into three paint pot three paint pots with mum daubed on the front um one for each son i've got three sons it'll be blue paint because they know i love blue and then i'm going to ask maggie hambling my mentor and probably

our greatest living artist issue if she will use the paint which will be kind of lumpy but very good for one of her seascapes if she could do me three little seascapes she's up for this the trouble is she's a bit older than me so if she goes first i've asked someone else in my painting group with maggie called jelly green who's an amazing artist she actually has just done ed sheeran's album cover and she's really up for it so this idea has taken off and and so my kids will be presented with an artwork each which hopefully is better than just them having me in a box under the i think that's such a lovely idea and um except they might sell the painting knowing them i mean i'm a bit worried especially when we went to one of jelly's exhibitions and ed sheeran was actually there and you know there were red dots all over her paintings i literally saw my son's machinations of his brains thinking these jelly green paintings

actually go for quite a lot i saw it's transparent it was almost like ticker tape across his eyes would you would you be upset if they if they did sell you on i mean quite a lot of trouble it'd be quite a lovely parting gift though, wouldn't it? That, you know, if they could make hundreds of thousands. I mean, Maggie Hamlin's painting. I know, if I manage to go before Maggie and she does the painting, they'll be worth tens and tens of thousands. So there's no way they'll keep that lovingly. Yeah. Well, I think that's just such a lovely idea. No, it's a lovely idea.

But I just didn't want to be left in the garage. No. In a box. No, and the, you know... That worries me. The jar on the mantelpiece as well is just... Yeah. That's not for me.

No, I agree with you. This one comes from Caroline. Actually, do you want to do this one? Because we were talking about dementia on Monday's programme, Alzheimer's in particular. Thank you for talking... This is, yes, from Caroline. Thank you for talking about dementia on Monday's programme, Alzheimer's in particular. Thank you for talking, this is yes, from Caroline, thank you for talking about dementia. It touches so many people's lives. In my life, I've looked after my mum and more recently a neighbour.

The thing I found hardest, aside watching these beautiful ladies battling with this horrible disease, was the lack of support for the friends and family who are struggling to understand what their loved one needs. I feel I can offer a lot of help and contacted our local dementia charity offered and offered to volunteer. I was asked for my postcode and told in an offhand way no volunteers were needed in my area. That's very disappointing Caroline. She says no details were logged for future vacancies

and that was that and she says I've got a lot to give. But you know what I do, Caroline? I go to my local community association. I've done this for years and I become a befriender and they pair you up with an elderly person. And that just might be a phone call once a week or it might be a visit. I looked after a lovely old lady called stefania for a long time she's now passed away and we i actually take her for a drive around richmond park so i enjoyed her company so much but you don't have to do more than a phone call and it's just that would be a good way of connecting i think befriending is such a lovely thing to do. So age concern, do exactly that, don't they? Yes, you can contact your local community association,

Age UK or any charity. They'll be so thrilled, Caroline, if you help. You'll have to have police checks and things, but that's it. Now, this one comes from Sean, who deliciously describes himself as a heterosexual male in Devon. I don't know why I've gone for the emphasis on het. Heterosexual. Heterosexual.

Heterosexual. No, don't start. Heterosexual. No, I don't know. So Claire Balding really picked me up on how I say theatre. How do you say it? Theatre. Theatre.

You go theatre. Theatre. With a flutter. It's very Oscar Wilde. Right, Sean, heterosexual male, Devon. Good to hear Annika back on the radio. She was part of my 15 Minutes of Fame. Well, when I say 15 minutes, I mean 30 seconds.

I was the security guard at Wimbledon when she turned to scrounge some strawberries for an event in June 1989 whilst filming one of the many Challenge Anikas. She must remember that auspicious event, surely. Turned up to scrounge some strawberries. What's his name? What's his name, Phoebe? Sean. Sean, I've just thought about you nonstop ever since. I literally go to bed thinking of Sean.

I wake up thinking of Sean. those strawberries, what might have been. Hi Sean. Yeah so this one comes from one of our correspondents who has asked to remain anonymous and that is always fine by us. You were talking about the topic of parental alienation on Monday. Is there any chance you could get Dr Charlotte Proudman in to talk about it? She's a barrister and does so much work on exposing what goes on in family courts. Do you know what?

We definitely do want to talk more about what goes on in family courts, actually. It's quite a lifting of the lid, I think, that particular area of the law. And there are some changes going through at the moment that definitely deserve our attention. It was so shocking, that whole interview, interview wasn't it and all the research around it yes quite quite really shocking so our correspondent goes on to say this uh parental alienation isn't

new my father used it in the 90s when he took my mother to court almost every year in order to get more access to me i was therefore split between two cities quite far away from the age of three when I didn't really know him and had never lived with him. He also wouldn't let me phone home more than once a week because that was his allocation on the other side. He was abusive and he used to tell me that if anyone found out what was happening or I didn't go to stay he could get my mum sent to prison for flouting the court order and I'd have to live with him full time. Unfortunately he was probably right he always told the courts that she had poisoned my mind against him and that's what prevented me seeking help and obviously I feel as much abused by the system as by him. And you go on to say I feel quite silly disclosing this to a radio show, but honestly, trust you two to dig out important issues

and no one talks about this particular one. And so I would just like to say that we really admire your courage in sending that email because I don't think it's particularly easy to write a radio programme, know that it's going to be read out and all of that kind of stuff. So, you know, we are really humbled actually by your honesty and we will carry on talking about the subject of parental alienation and it's just so sad it's such an obvious thing to say but you cannot relive your childhood you can't do it again

in the way that you would like to or your mum would have liked to so i'm just so sorry that that happened to you but you've been incredibly bold as well, because I know that you've also spoken to the Truth Project when that was investigating institutional abuse in the hope that it would add something to the debate about family courts. So thank you for that. And we'll keep that on file. And we will definitely try and talk some more about it. Now, I'm going to make an enormous gear change,

but people are very used to the fact that we do that on the program so I hope you'll all take the turn with us we had a guest on the program today our big interview was with Stacey Solomon you'd never watched the program that we were talking about which is sort your life out which is just an incredibly well constructed piece of tv actually if you think you've seen every single home makeover show that you would ever want to see, and then some that you didn't really want to, but there wasn't anything else on,

I would give this a try. Because they do this fantastic thing, Annika, where they go to somebody's house, which has got completely out of control. You know, there are just 2,000 unpaired up pairs of socks spread all over the place. You open a cupboard and everything falls out you know really really bad situations they take every single item out of someone's house

and then they lay it all out in a warehouse doesn't nick knowles do that on channel five something or other if i completely had a hallucination if he does something like that we ignore it and he's copied her and. And we say we watch Stacey. Because she's been doing it for ages. You know, I haven't watched the whole thing, but I'm very familiar with it because I have caught it. And I love Stacey. And frankly, if she's telling me to do something, you know, by laying something out in a shrine in the garden of all the stuff I've been desperate to get rid of. I'm going to have a go, Stacey. Thank you.

But it really makes you think about just the detritus of family life that you become ridiculously sentimentally attached to. And actually, I would challenge, and sorry, that's no kind of, I'm not trying to make a huge joke at your expense at all, Annika, but I would challenge anybody to have more than 20 items in their house of real emotional relevance to them. Well, I always said it was just my photo albums I'd rush to save because back in the day

you didn't have a camera phone. And so the old school way of looking at your photos of your kids is in a rather lovely photo album. That would upset me. The rest could go. Yeah. I think that there's an enormous opportunity for somebody to set up a company that downloads all of your photos does the kind of

stacy solomon but just with photos from the cloud i tried to get my sons to do it i said could you digitize each album honestly what's the point of having children fee i don't know they looked at me and passed it around the sons on the whatsapp group and i'm back to where i've started so well i mean i still quite enjoy the book your kids are just waiting for you to pop it and become a very expensive painting yeah they couldn't care less i think you've given in too early to them. So, look, let's hear the interview. Stacey wasn't originally known as a TV presenter. She made her name on The X Factor when she was just 18, the year before she had had a baby, the first of her five children. So she had quite a lot on her plate.

But she does have something about her, and it's not just her voice. It really is her personality. And she really uses it to very good effect, actually, in this TV programme. So the idea is Stacey and her team rock up. They take the entire contents of the house away. They spread it all out in a warehouse. The family chooses which bits to keep. And then delicious storage solutions are put back in at home.

And the result is, in my opinion, one of the most satisfying TV programmes you can watch. I asked her if it was as satisfying to make i adore making it first of all thanks for saying that that's such a compliment because i honestly i don't just love the show and what we come out with at the end of it i i'm um it's a real passion project of mine i so believe in everything that the show talks about and yeah it is just as satisfying doing it, for me anyway, because I enjoy doing that stuff. So, you know, the families that let us into their homes,

I think are just really the star of the show. It's a lot, really, when you're in a situation where you feel like, you know, the world has overtaken you and you can't come back from it, to then let a whole TV crew into your life. So I'm always so grateful for all of our families that let us come into their homes. And yeah, being able to really intervene when somebody needs it most and then give them back their life basically is what a privilege. I mean, that's such a privilege for us. You're right to mention the kind of generous spirits of the families. And actually, that's one of the things that makes it comfortable to watch, because as a viewer,

it could be uncomfortable if you were made to feel that you were in any way being asked to kind of laugh at people's, you know, bad home situations or, you know, I I mean some of the rooms that you show are so beyond the imagination aren't they in terms of how much stuff is accumulated and dirt and filth and whatever so it's quite a fine line isn't it keeping the respect for those families it really is and I remember when we were first in discussions about thought your life out and the one thing the only thing actually that was my stipulations during the show was to make sure that everyone on the show feels comfortable and doesn't feel like in like the very extreme part of their lives where they're needing a helping hand what is happening with these families happens to most people on a day-to-day basis you know sometimes your house and your home and running home can get seriously

overwhelming and most people both of the like everybody in the house is working and lots of people have children to then cont is working and lots of people have children to then contend with and lots of people have like you know a million other things before the house gets to come into here so it's in my like I always think people in glass houses you know at the end of the day you can look on and go oh how do you let it get like that but I think it's easy to get like that and I think myself included I could easily become you know in a situation where I'm like God where do I start and it's all building up and building up so I have a huge

empathy for everyone on the show and I don't think that it's as extreme as it looks I think it's some a normal like not normal I hate the word normal what does that even mean but I think it's a situation that lots of us find ourselves in but we're able to reset every now and again and some people aren't able to do that and don't have the help and don't have the free time or headspace and all might have been through different traumas that contribute to what what is happening in their home and I think it's understanding that and deconstructing everything that's going on and not just treating it as if it's just one isolated incident yeah and because there are always reasons as well aren't there as well as as you so rightly point out just that kind of constant wave that happens especially in a family house you i think

are talking to me from your family home today i see, if you want to see it, it's nice and messy. Can you? Oh, brilliant, brilliant, right. Okay, I will do a little running commentary. Yep, there's quite a lot of stuff on the floor there, Stacey. You've got quite a lot of toys. Yeah, lovely. And there's probably, do you know what, if you put your hand down the back of your sofa, what might you find? Oh, you wouldn't want to. Hold on, let me tell you. Let's have a look. Oh, right now we've got Belle's favourite zebra. Glad I found that. An old bottle. That's an old milk bottle because you've got a tiny one,

haven't you, at the moment? There's a couple of batteries down there that look like they've come out the remote. That's great. So standard. Yes, standard's right. I don't matter how clean you think you are and how organised and how tidy. If your house doesn't look like this

on a day-to-day basis, do you even have children? Well, thank you for being so honest about that. And I am happy to report for our listeners that, yeah, our house is slightly untidy. And there are some lovely moments, Stacey, where you give quite a lot of yourself away, actually, on the programme.

And I most recently watched the first episode of Series 2 with lovely Char, who's got two kids and she's married to Dan, the police officer. She had her first baby, didn't she, at the same age as you when she was 18. She found herself living in a hostel on her own before she got back together with the father of her baby and I thought it triggered something in you actually meeting her would that be right? Yeah I think whenever I meet anybody who had a child really young I can instantly relate to what I would say but this is my personal experience as that that similar trauma because I do think it was a trauma I was 17 years old and you know pushing a baby out of your vagina I didn't even want to say the word vagina at that age like the whole thing felt

traumatic to me and even the experience felt traumatic and then the feelings that came afterwards that were not what were expected when you become a mum. I meet people in a similar situation who had babies at that age who felt exactly the same after. And I instantly relate to that. At the time in my life when I had Zachary, and I've always said this, my family are my biggest privilege. And my mum was really there for me. My mum recognised the signs of postnatal depression in me and she really talked about it with me and helped me through it and helped me, you know, get back to a place that, the place that I needed to be to take care of myself and my child. And I think if you don't

have that and you're kind, you lose yourself. You totally lose yourself and you forget how to, who you are and how to be you anymore. And I meet a lot of people like that, I think, who have had, but it doesn't necessarily mean, not necessarily who have had children young, but it tends to be that a lot of people who had children young have a similar experience.

But it can happen at any age, obviously. And when I met Sian and Dad and she still felt in that in that place where she didn't really know who she was, she'd forgotten how to really go for stuff and her anxiety had heightened and

she gave up on herself basically and didn't believe in herself and I do relate to that a lot and also you did quite rightly say that when when you were so young you have the ultimate responsibility of a baby and you know hopefully when the right things kick in and as you say anybody can have a very tough time with postnatal depression when you're that young you don't have and you didn't have the certainty of qualifications behind you you weren't on a path to anything absolutely everything lay ahead of you so I

wonder what you think that young Stacey would think of this Stacey now I think she'd probably laugh would she yeah because I often laugh but in a in a kind of what the hell do you know what I mean like what have you done how did this happen and even you know my family will be the same and be like Stacey how is this because because it's not just how's this happened to me it's how's this happened to us as a family you know some of the opportunities that I've been able to have some of the in yeah I've been able to interview people and meet people that I never thought I'd meet um and and I think we all are a bit kind of just we just can't believe it and I think my younger self would look probably say to me oh thank god for that because it's hard isn't it

Stacey Solomon is our guest this afternoon and here on the podcast she did get her big break singing on uh the x factor and i asked her if with the benefit of hindsight that was actually a kind experience yeah and you know what it i don't i don't know where i would be without the x factor at all when i went on to the X Factor, I remember saying to my mum, and I still feel the same today, if this is it, I am so happy because what an experience. You know, I got to sing with people that I grew up just idolising, like Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, George Michael,

and that was enough for me. That was an absolute dream come true, and everyone on the show was so supportive and so kind. I felt like I just had the time of my life, basically, and I don't know what I'd be doing without the show. And, yeah, I remember thinking, God, if this is it, then what an amazing experience. How lucky am I to be doing any of these things

that I never imagined doing? And especially, I think 15 years ago when I had Zachary, the world was a different place. And now, you know, you can have a, if you do find yourself pregnant at a young age, there are different support systems out there. There's support networks. There is less of a stigma, I believe, on it.

When I had Zachary, people literally would out loud tut at me in the street and when I was pregnant would make weird remarks and be frankly really quite rude to me or they'd just say oh what shame you know um oh that's such shame are you okay what are you gonna do and it was just really I felt that my life was over the way that the sort of public perception was at that point having a child at that age so even the experience of X Factor was just an absolute dream come true and would have been totally enough even if that was just it and nothing ever came from it and I suppose in asking you whether it was a kind experience it would also be good to know

what you think of that type of TV programme in general, because I think we've learnt quite a lot recently about some unkind experiences that other contestants have had, not necessarily on X Factor, but there can be an exploitation, really, can't there, of people who are vulnerable and are reaching out to be famous and successful. Do you worry about that yourself would you let your kids go on a show like that now because I never personally saw or experienced any behavior like that I don't in my head you know if my children ever said to me I want to go for an audition and it's a televised audition and it's a competition where I could my opportunities could open up.

I don't think I could ever say no to that, especially because I did it and it changed my entire life and it was a positive experience. But I would absolutely have to have the conversations with them about that underlying, you know, what could happen behind the scenes and what, and I'd have to have those open conversations about these are the examples where this has happened and that has happened. Are you sure you want to put yourself into that environment? And I think that comes with any workplace environment. I think we've seen abuse of power across so many situations in the workplace. And perhaps maybe I feel that actually more than ever there's that it's really important that I teach them language and how people can manipulate you without you realizing you're being manipulated and how to cope with that and deal with that

in any workplace scenario or competition scenario or television whether it be in telly or whether it be in if they want to go and work in the post office. I want to make sure they're equipped to know how that abuse looks and what that feels like and how they can support themselves and speak to people and how they don't have to cut up with that. And it's wrong. Do you know what I mean? I feel like that could happen in any working environment. So I guess I want them to be equipped for that. I know that you've also spoken about how people can underestimate you because you are extremely beautiful, you are very full of beans, you speak in your natural accent Stacey don't you, you've not been through the elocution process. So how does that actually

present itself to you? What kind of things have you been on the receiving end of when people have thought oh I don't think she's that bright I suppose yeah I mean it's a double-edged sword because yeah I'm quite an upbeat person and I have got a my accent is my accent I'm from Dagenham and I'm very proud of it um so I guess initially just people look at me and think, oh, she's so dumb and fit and, you know, they'll sort of laugh me out the room a lot of the time. And I guess that presents itself in people maybe being really patronising to me without realising or just outright saying, God, you're so fit. And has anybody actually ever said that to you?

Yeah, all the time. I mean, people, I see comments about, you know, if someone puts a video out about me, and it'd be like, oh, God, another thick person's having an opinion, or this, that, and the other, you know. And that's fine. I actually, it used to really get to me, because I felt like it was a real limitation on anything that I could achieve.

I felt like it was a barrier that I couldn't push through because of where I come from um and as I've grown for my career and grown as a person I realized it's actually not a barrier and in fact sometimes it comes in really handy because I can walk into a room and people have got no expectation of me whatsoever and I can just like really go for it if anything, it enhances my performance because they thought I was going to be terrible and dumb and stupid to begin with. Now, you also seem to always be really, really full of energy, Stacey. And I have followed you a bit on your Instagram over the summer. You've had a wonderful time, haven't you, with your kids and stuff. It's all looked absolutely lovely. But let's face it, you're a mum of four.

Most parents get to this week in September. They feel a bit depleted, don't they? It's been a very long summer. Schools have only just started to go back. How are you feeling on that sliding scale of parenthood today? I'm totally honest with you. Yes, please. Firstly, I'm a mum of five.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I've left off a child. I'm a mum of five I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I've left off a child I'm a mum of five but this this summer is the first summer I've done had to film record two shows at once so I've been a bit of a part-time parent this summer and Joe's had to take the summer off so if you were to ask that question to Joe he's kicking him out the door tomorrow he's like come on back to school everyone and can't wait whereas I only took a 10-day break in the summer so I got like the lovely 10-day rose tinted haze of my children where I got to be really close to them and I've moved

them so much all summer because I've been away for work up and down the country and it's actually Joe who's had to take on the summer parenting role and he's yeah he's he's his beautiful ginger hair was slowly but surely turning gray it's a bit fragile so what does he get to do on the first day that he's got some free time when the kids but you've still got a baby haven't you so yeah it's not everybody back in school we just we're at the you know when people say i'm in my i don't know fishing era or whatever we are in our parenthood era there is no getting away from it because we've got teenagers and then we've got a six-month-old baby so there's no i guess we when they all go to school because rose our one-year-old

starts nursery next in in october so once they're all in sort of that full-time routine, then I think, well, Jo, what do you want to do? You want to go fishing more, didn't you? When they're all at school. He really wants to go fishing. I want to fish, go to the gym and make pot. Oh, fishing, go back to the gym and he loves pottery. Does he?

Has he got his own wheel? He wants to get one, don't you? But I don't want him to get one. I'm trying to sort my life out and he's trying to add hobbies to it and I can't cope. Brilliant. Well, I can see a very... Hello. Hello. I'm very good on the pottery wheel. Are you? I think if you've done a whole summer of almost solo parenting, I think you deserve a pottery wheel. You are not on my side. He's already got a garage full of fishing stuff.

Listen, she's already stole my gym. I had a lovely gym now. She's turned into a little girly gym with white boxing bags. It was nice black and white. Now it's all pink. Yeah, so anyway. You might get a pottery wheel. You might.

No, thank you very much. Very nice to meet you. I love your wife, by the way. Taking it back, he's like, oh my God, there's a woman sticking up for me in my own house. Stacey Solomon. So I suppose, can I ask you a very obvious question? Because you've been involved in the television arena

for quite some time. Have there ever been times when you felt a bit exploited by it? No, not exploited, actually actually i don't think so um but i was canny in a way because i'd started my tv career i was very young working in hong kong as a journalist and a newsreader over there and by the time i got sort of treasure hunt and then i decided to devise my own format for challenge so that, you know, I could produce it. And I chose a female team. And so therefore, I don't feel I never felt exploited. I felt I was taking control.

But a lot of people don't have that option. That's interesting. You were. Was there any pushback against choosing an all-female team? No, it was totally logical. Actually, they were all the people that we felt were best for the job, apart from some of the crew, because in those days you didn't have female cameramen

and female camerawomen in the same way. Because camera was far too heavy. But now, I mean mean recently the series of challenge uh we had female sound recordists you know it was brilliant and without fail everyone came up and said we went into the industry because of challenge we saw that and thought that looks fun we want to be on a crew like that so that was a rather lovely sort of circle yeah yeah yeah and it's been such a delight to spend a bit of time with you I've really enjoyed it I know it's been a joy I hope you'll come back I'd love to yep and also do you know what one of the things uh that I hope you don't mind me

passing on to our listeners very nervous when V says this she does this a lot she preempts everything with I haven't mentioned this to you already. But it's coming. I just think, oh God, where's this one going to go? Well, because you're a woman from the television and I would imagine that you are completely comfortable with seeing your visual image, but actually in the newfangled world of radio, we have pictures too.

There are pictures of, you know, we see ourselves being filmed all the time in the studio. And it was so lovely that you said, I don't really want to see myself all the time. So we switched all the TV monitors off. I mean, this is radio. And I feel of seeing a picture of myself talking, revolting to start with. But B, the intimacy is talking into the microphone, isn't it? And picturing your listener not seeing a picture of yourself.

That's just scary. Well, it made me feel better. Did it? It did, yes. So thank you very much indeed. Annika Rice, I hope you'll come back. Thank you, Fee. I've loved this week and you have very fine listeners, can I just say.

Yeah, they're a very, very nice bunch. Very, very solid crew. They are. Jane Garvey is back on Monday. She's had some ups and downs on her holiday so we'll look forward to debriefing that

yes I'll be tuning in on Monday yep I'll turn up on Monday as well have a lovely weekend everybody

goodbye bye We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio

We start at 3pm and you can listen for free on your smart speaker Just shout Play Times Radio at it You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go on to Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere, aren't we, Jane?

Pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.