Off Air... with Jane and Fi - I've got an ointment for that, sir

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Jane Garvey is back in the building! She's rested and ready to go, but best believe she's got some gripes from her holiday... Jane and Eve discuss make-up in athletics, dildo rails, breaststroke in the infinity pool, and address the pizza controversy. Plus, Laura Hackett, deputy literary editor and fiction editor for both The Sunday Times and The Times, brings news of harvest time in the publishing world. She recommends Partita by Barbara Kingsolver, The Housekeeper by Rose Tremain, and Peck & Peck by Bonnie Garmus. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFi Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Friends are a bit disabled. That's what happens when you get on holiday. Miserable kids. Right, we're on. Welcome back to Offair with Jane, but not Fee this week, because Fee is now on holiday. Eve is here, but won't be for the rest of the week, because obviously she's got another holiday,

but it's so great that you're here today at least. I mean, thanks. That's okay. I thought I'd show up. Say hello to you. Get you settled back in. Oh, God. And don't think I'm not incredibly reassured by that at your approach.

is gratifying. Which holiday is this? I'm going to take it with my family. Okay, you've got to see your family. That makes perfect sense. How was your holiday? It was actually incredibly relaxing. We just had a relatively short break in a beautiful hotel, it has to be said. On a new Greek island for me, I know we both get a bit confused, don't we, about which islands you've been to. I know which ones I've been to. In fact, I might just do a quick list. Oh, come on. So I started off with COS. This summer? No, no, this is way back.

This is in the 90s. Then I left Greece alone for quite a long time until I went to the Athens Olympics, as I always like to emphasise, not as a competitor. Thanks for clearing that off. Just in case anyone was confused. And fell in love with Greece all over again.

The second time was just incredible. And since then, what else have I knocked off? Santorini, love it. Crete, beautiful. Andros. Amazing. And then this time, Caffalonia. Which was the one that you did when you did the Victoria Hislop? Oh, well, that was Crete.

That was Crete. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, because that was opposite. Yeah. The island that features in the island, yeah. Which have been a leper colony, which I found slightly alarming, because you could see it from that hotel. And I don't know, I found that all a bit disturbing, all the tourists going off to spend the day there.

I don't know. It didn't seem quite right. It doesn't feel completely conducive to a relaxing one day. No, but I'm sure I've talked about that before. Heaven forbid that I ever repeat myself. Anyway, I hope Fee is having a happy holiday, and I'm sure she will be, but she'll be back very, very soon. And Hannah will be here in place of you for the rest of the week. The rest of this week.

So Cephalonia, you went a couple of weeks ago. Yes. What's Céphalonia done to deserve both of us? I don't know. Poor, poor benighted Ireland. They must be overjoyed have had us. It's beautiful, isn't it? It is so, so beautiful.

It was also very green. Now, it certainly didn't rain when I was. there last week. But does it rain a lot? How come? It's so luxuriant and lush. We had the exact same conversation. Okay. Yeah, there are trees everywhere. And when I flew back into London's

bouncing Heathrow Airport, I mean, your view of southern England as you come into land, it's horrible, isn't it? It's so parched. It's horrible. What time did you get back on Friday? Saturday. Oh, Saturday. Did you still

get the alert that we all got? I didn't get the alert, but I'd got a previous alert about wildfires on Zekynthos, which is the island you can see from the part of Cafferonia that I was in. We have a very good view of Zikynthos from the terrace at the hotel. And yes, there was a very alarming. That same noise went off all around the pool in Cafferonia because of wildfires in the adjoining island. It's quite a shocking sound.

It is a shocking sound. I mean, it has to be shocking. So, but I didn't, I've heard a lot of talk about the British barbecue alert, which some people are mocking. Other people say it was exactly the right thing. I know it caused alarm with domestic abuse survivors. Oh, yeah. Because they might well have a spare phone which somebody else didn't know about. That's really concerning.

Apparently a lot of trouble in prisons when phones that nobody knew existed or sounded the claxon at the same time. So that wouldn't have been great either. string of reasons. Where were you when you got it? I was in London, sat with friends and it very much created a conversation about how worrying it all is and how scary it is and it did feel quite doomsday. Yes. I mean I have to say even the wildfire alert in Greece was shocking because it as you say it shattered the iddle just for a couple of minutes. Everyone gropes for their phone And every single time I left the hotel room, I thought, I don't need my phone.

I'll leave it. But, you know, I never did. And what does that say about the human condition that we're also bloody addicted to these things? But yeah, clearly everybody else had their phone with them. It brought it into kind of sharp focus that then we were like, God, this is actually really scary. Yeah, it is scary.

I mean, I think I needed to see the South of England from the air to witness the, I mean, devastation is too strong a word, but everywhere just looks so... I don't think it's too strong to... Right, no, you're right. We need to... It's not as if I didn't understand that this was a reality,

but it is troubling. It's so, yeah, it is, yeah. Having said that, it's going to rain this week. And I welcome that. I do and I don't. But I will also not be here, so... Of course, you'll be enjoying another holiday pool in Turkey.

I mean, regular listeners might be questioning, what is he've contract like? And does she have more holidays? than the average individual. It just feels like that. I know you don't, but it does feel like you have a lot. You just got to make it work. Yeah, well, you certainly do.

Anyway, we're back now, and we welcome your emails, and thank you very much for all the emails that have arrived over the last week or so. It is Jane and Fee at times.com. In case you needed reminding, you'll be delighted to hear that we do have the impeccably knowledgeable Laura Hackett with us today to talk about books,

and she's going to talk specifically about the big books coming our way. Yeah, some autumn titles to look out for and some of her favourites that she's excited to read. Okay, and we should say that Fee and I are appearing at the Cheltenham Literature Festival in October. Always a highlight of anybody's year. And are we not allowed to... No, we've announced it.

Oh, we have, okay. So don't forget, we're talking to our showbiz pal, Annaica Rice. But I think that tickets are not actually available to purchase. Don't all rush at once. Until September the 2nd, you can... actually buy your tickets. Okay.

Now I think I know, I saw Anna Goraes, who was on Great Form, at the Chelsea Flower Show, when the Chelsea Flower Show started. And that for me was significant because it was the evening that this crazy summer started. Okay. Do you remember that day? The clouds parted at about half past five. I know you didn't come to the Chelsea Flower Show. I don't know why he didn't because there were free drinks.

The only reason I went. because the flowers, frankly, are over my head in more ways than one. But I like a Chelsea pensioner, and I like a free drink. And anyway, it was an average kind of a day until about 5.36 o'clock. And then it just started being sunny and it hasn't really stopped since.

What month is it? That would be late May, early June. Okay. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it did just kind of get rolling from spring, didn't it? Anyway, Annika was there. She didn't mention her memoir, So maybe it was still on the...

Under wraps. Under wraps, yeah. Okay, and Eve alerted me earlier to the fact that next week we've got Kate Atkinson on the programme and on the podcast. Yes. That's be brilliant. I love her and she has a new novel out, which sounds really interesting. It's about the Festival of Britain.

I've just had a quick look at some of the details about it. And I can't wait for my copy. I think it should be in my sweaty mitts. Today. Today? Hopefully it will be here with by the afternoon. Okay, looking forward to that. We should just say one more note on Greece.

Yeah, go on. Do you want to clear up the pitter-pitz? I was devastated to hear that I communicated briefly with our executive producer Rosie Cutler last week. And I told her I was waiting to have a chicken pitter delivered to my, I mean, it's appalling. But, you know, when you can get lunch taken to you. It's just, I can't really forgive myself, except I can. No, of course you deserve. A lounge.

Boy, did I have a lounge. Yeah, I was by the poor waiting for a chicken pitter. Not a chicken pizza. Got slightly lost in translation. God's sake. he had a lot to say about your choice of a chicken pizza. And I would have judged anyone who had a chicken pizza in Cafferonia, on Cafferlonia. But I didn't.

I had a chicken pitter, richly deserved, as my colleague here indicates. Just a couple of observations. There are always people in hotels. And this is a lovely hotel in a most beautiful location who still looked grumpy. And I just had one episode. I just want to share this with you. I was with my youngest daughter. I didn't have a peep out of her all week.

I mean, she is 23. It was great because she just read a woman of substance. She finished. And I said, I thought she'd enjoy it. And so she had a friend who'd given it to her. She took it with her. Honestly, she just, it was all she could talk about was the traviles of Emma Hart.

Have you read it? No, I have them. Oh, well, honestly, I do think maybe you could take it on your Turkish holiday. Honestly, it completely kept a choir. But so she and I were just by the pool reading the whole time. And so was almost everybody else. This is a hotel that did advertise it.

as a restful place and honestly everybody just they paid attention to that there was no shouting there was no splashing it was adults only just some breaststroke going on there was it you're absolutely right there was some of my unwieldy breaststroke and i was and i was very much no front crawl no no there was nothing you know there really wasn't a bit of gentle splashing from the honeymooners we can allow them that That's absolutely fine. And lovers. Yeah, no, that's fine. Absolutely fine.

But you're right, there was a lot of... There's a lot of... slightly adequate reststroke and no more in the infinity pool. You've got to cool off somehow. Except there's one occasion, and it was the last morning, and it was, you know, in a hotel when you've checked out, and you often have quite a weight before you need to get to the airport? We had about a three, three and a half hour wait

when we couldn't use the room. But we had been allowed to use the showers or something. So we were able to sit by the pool and it was completely quiet and everyone reading as usual. Just those, the birds' song, would you like to do an impersonation? Did they do?

Yeah, they were at it, as they always are in Greece and God love them. And that was lovely. And then there was one man. One man, British, British, I am ashamed to say. He was wearing trunks and he was conducting a business

conversation. He had a baseball cap on backwards. He had his ear pieces. What are they called when it's not connected? Your AirPods. The AirPods. He had his air pods. Earbuds, earbuds, whatever they were.

And to make matters much worse, he was patrolling the swimming pool. Oh my gosh. So he was pacing around the pool. And occasionally he was sort of grabbing his crotch in a kind of business-like. I mean, why is there any need to do that? I mean, at one point I just wanted to shout out, I've got an ointment for that. But I think it's just. just that he wanted, he wanted to illustrate that he was involved in a really important business

conversation. Now, obviously, I was earwigging. I didn't actually have any option. And everyone else was earwigging too. And you do wonder about data protection in these circumstances. He wasn't to know that the little woman over in the shade, because I always put myself in the shade. Was Britain's leading journalist? No. Does a podcast. But thank you, Eve. That was good timing, actually that was brilliant but you know I mean it wasn't who else was around that pool

there could have been all you don't know who anybody is or what they do or what their backstory is and this guy was just it was the strutting and the self-importance I couldn't bear it honestly

it's one thing to take an obnoxiously loud phone call but I think it's another thing when it's a work call because then you're really bursting the peaceful holiday bubble you're bringing your work to the pool

and then everyone else has to live through it too burst that bubble and it was an agreement that the rest of us had all signed up to, we'd gone there to be quiet. That was the point of the place. And I just thought,

you're... Anyway, on about the 15th appearance by my side of the pool... She's getting his steps in. Yeah, he was. Bless him. I couldn't stand it anymore. And I had a couple of options.

Did you intervene? Well, my daughter was horrified. And this is what annoys me about the younger generation. Because she was angry about him as well, but she was embarrassed that I did something about it. That's a particular parent-child dynamic, I think. So all I did, even, you will be horrified, just as my daughter was,

was that I just sort of sat forward. And I just put my finger to my lips in a really old bag. You shushed him. I shushed him. And to the man's credit, he said, Oh, me, in that classic British middle-class plonker kind of a way. way. I didn't speak. I didn't say a word. I just did that. And is that, so am I hideous? Did, ah. You see, you're exactly what, you're just like my daughter. That's just so unfair.

I actually had an experience on the train this morning where a woman was filing her nails. Yeah, I don't mind that. And then I thought, gosh, that's a bit loud, but whatever. Because the sound of filing kind of weirdly makes me cringe a bit. So I, I clocked it. And then as I was getting off the carriage, the woman in front of her, she'd got covered in some of the... Oh, the shavings. The shavings from the nail filing. That's not ideal. And the woman who was filing her nails had said,

I'm really, really sorry if that got on you. And this woman said, well, it's just a bit gross. It's just not something that I would do. And then this other girl was like, yeah, I'm so sorry, I hadn't realised that it was flying on you. That was just a lot coming off. And I walked off the train thinking, I kind of respect that woman for telling this other woman

that she thought it was gross. But was it necessary? To tell, oh gosh, this is a really interesting psychological area. And I thought I would probably find it gross if someone's nail filings had been flying onto me, but I would not tell them that it was gross. But I would like to be able to. Gosh, well, we've hit on something here.

So, yeah, you see somebody committing an act that you don't like and you understand too that it's impacting on other people, as with the Herbert by the pool. but when you do something about it you know that other people will hate you for doing it Yeah I was like Oh gosh, she's got being up on it this morning

Yeah you see there we are Aren't humans weird Yeah Let us know if you've had any similar experiences What's the email address? It is Jane and Fee at times dot radio Let's talk athletics This is from Louisa

Hello to all the lovely ladies First time emailer to any podcast Wow Thank you, welcome Yeah welcome Long time listener, and although I felt that your podcast has mirrored and supported my life over the last couple of years, for some reason I only felt triggered to reach out to you, having recently caught some of the European athletics on the telly this week. Have you seen it?

I've seen it in The Times this morning. I was watching it when I got back on Saturday night and again last night as well. The women were lined up in the 100 metres heats, and as the camera panned across the athletes, I couldn't help but notice how glamorous all the women looked. They had impeccable makeup and hair, and it just seemed so out of place for what was surely an incredibly tough race ahead. Don't get me wrong, as an accountant of over 30 years, I wouldn't dream of turning up in the office without making some effort,

foundation, lipstick, etc. Else I could have traumatised the rest of the department if they'd seen me without mascara. I'm sure that's not true, Louisa. when I mentioned this to my husband, he suggested that perhaps the women were marketing themselves for some sort of advertising or other contract publicity. Maybe, but there was something about this that made me feel uncomfortable. Thank you for listening to my rambling and random thoughts and for everything you do.

Well, honestly, don't thank us, Louisa. We love doing it. Gosh, I'm conflicted by this as well because I did notice last night. I was watching the 100 metres mixed relay, which, Britain won. And it is true. There were two brilliant female British athletes in our mixed relay team. Dina Asher Smith, who is just fantastic, and Amy Hunt, who went on to win in that race, her fourth gold medal of the championships. But Dina Asher Smith has won medals over a decade, I think. And I was saying to you earlier that I interviewed her about, must have been about 10 years ago. And she's just the

most brilliant young woman. She's absolutely fantastic. So I just wish her, at the very best. I'm sure she'll go on to have probably a stellar television career, Dina, because she's incredibly clever as well as everything else. So she'll be able to commentate on athletics and present on the sport on telly. I really hope she does. I mean, she may have no interest in doing it, but if she does want to do it, I'm sure she'd be amazing. But I mean, my daughter was watching it with me last night, and she said, they're all so beautiful. And I did, and the men, and she went the men as well. And actually, that was also true. But of course, the men aren't wearing, they're not wearing the makeup. They don't feel the need to wear it.

What is that all about? Well, I suppose you can't blame them for maybe having a bit of vanity because their faces are going to be all over every national newspaper. They're on national television. I know. And if your face was going to be blasted like that, would you not want to feel like you look your best? Well, I'm slightly at the point where I'm past caring, Eve, if I'm honest.

Oh, thanks. But, no, I was a bit. Amy Hunt has actually said, yeah, I look, I want to look. like this being glam it frankly helps me and I'd much rather be look like this than not do to that at the door

just gonna let Laura Hackett in Laura Hackett everybody hang on a set we'll let her in she might have a view on this well she's got a view on everything so I'm sure she'll have a view on it I've also got some

hello Laura come sit down we're delighted to have you Laura Hackett has a series of tremendous titles but you do are they at this organisation just remind us what they are Deputy Literary Editor and fiction editor

The Times and Sunday Times. Yes, well, welcome. And we're just very humble to have you. No, we were just talking actually because a listener had prompted the conversation about how glamorous the athletes look at the European Athletics Championships. Have you seen them?

I have. They look extraordinary. Well, they do look extraordinary. But is it, our listener, Louisa, just wants to know if that's all right. What do you mean? Is that all right? Well, because she's, I mean, they are sports women.

Yes. Do they, are they contractually obliged in some way to look incredible? Well, I suppose it must be the changing nature of the sport because you want to be seen and you want to be noticed and there's an element of celebrity that goes alongside sportsmanship. I guess we saw it a lot at Wimbledon as well. Yes, that's true. These incredible outfits because you want to be noticed

and you want to be talked about. I think it's quite fun, although I know what you mean if you're a sort of frumpy sportswoman, you might feel a bit out of place. Are there frumpy sports women? Well, when I did a bit of sport, I probably would have... Yes? No, Frumpy isn't an adjective.

You hear that much these days, but it's good to be reacquainted with it. Because I read too many old-fashioned books. Well, I want to talk to you about an old-fashioned book in a minute or two, actually. I'm with Louisa a little bit, our emailer. I am slightly perplexed by it, and I do hope it doesn't put... young women off sport because they think, oh God, apart from being brilliant at sport,

I'm also going to have to look incredible as well. And the men just don't have the same pressure. They just don't. Anyway, that's my feminist rant, loosely speaking feminist rant of the day over with. Thank you for being here, Laura. We'll do some emails because we've got some funny ones here. This is from Andrea in Maidstone. I laughed as I listen to Jane describe her friend's mother, the King Gardner,

who often confused Clomatis with clitoris. and my mind drifted back to the 80s when my own mom admired our newly decorated sitting room and commented how much she liked our new dildo rail. Some people might actually have one of those. I don't know. I certainly don't. No.

What's this? Sass. Speaking of SuperSpotters, re-hilarious, clitorist episode with Frank Gardner. By the way, Frank Gardner is one of the most eminent journalists and broadcasters in the UK. He'll hate to be associated with that edition of our podcast. But anyway, I would like to give a shout-out to my fantastic friend Victoria, who's currently poorly. She's at home recovering from an operation. Well, Victoria, I hope you're on the mend. I'm sorry to hear you've been through it a bit. While sheltering from 38-degree heat at Montenegro's

Tivat Airport recently, she suddenly gasped, grabbed my arm and said, look, walking slowly across the road, within touching distance of us, sauntered Katie Perry and ex-Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. This is good, isn't it? Are you impressed, Laura? I'm impressed. They were so inconspicuous, I would have completely missed them had she not pointed them out.

And it wasn't Victoria's first rodeo. A couple of years ago, we were sitting in the meadow of the Kenwood Ladies Pond on a rare day that male guests were also allowed to swim. Now, Kenwood, is that part of Hampstead Heath? I don't know, is it, Eve? Kenwood house, isn't it? Is that a different house?

It's part of it. I think it's part of it. It's within the heath. Right, okay. Anyway, we were sitting in the meadow of the Kenwood ladies' pond on a rare day that male guests were also allowed to swim. She nudged me and casually pointed out Harry Stiles, sitting there with friends incognito, hidden under a hoodie, baseball cap and sunglasses. One of the older ladies took umbrage with this camouflaged male of the species and rather grumpily told him,

Time's up. You're allowed here until 1130. It's now midday, so I'll have to ask you to leave, young man. Right. Too right. Quite right, too. Please tell Super Spotter Victoria, we all love her, and we're wishing her a gentle and full recovery in good time. Victoria, lots of love from all of us as well, and I hope your recovery continues. And sass, thank you very much for that. So the lady who intercepted Harry Stiles there, she was basically doing a passive, aggressive Garvey by the holiday poor, wasn't she? and that has brought out a little bit of my tingle when I hear about her intervention because although she was right to do it, I know exactly what you were saying Eve earlier.

It doesn't give you the... I know. Rather you than me kind of feeling. Yeah, exactly. And now let's introduce Laura Hackett again. We do sometimes tease you about your interest in and indeed fanatical over-promotion of... Wow.

...North Ireland. But we've got an opportunity to do it again. Yes. This is from Julianne. I was listening to your episode about how Oslo is a pedestrianized city and the difference it's made. That was last week, wasn't it? Yes, because Fee is heading to Oslo on our holidays.

That's right. Yes, she avoids the sun unlike me and it's going to Oslo. Last week, Belfast hosted the... Fla. Fla. Yes, the rest of it, please. Okay, don't test me in all the rest of it. It's just the flar.

Okay, the flower. But it's spelled F-L-E-A-D-H. Yes. Yeah, and it's pronounced flower. Okay. Last week, Julianne says, Belfast hosted the flower. It's the largest international festival

of traditional Irish music. And I think this is really interesting. It was the first time ever that Belfast has hosted this event. So that's significant, isn't it? It is pretty significant. Yeah. I think when you look at it

and you think, look at the country 30 years ago. Unthinkable. It would be completely unthinkable. Okay. So go Belfast. No, I think it's tremendous. It lasted between the second and the ninth of August. August, throughout that whole period, the whole of Belfast City Centre was pedestrianised,

and the difference it made to the city was incredible. Initially, 800,000 people were expected, but by the end of the week, 1.6 million people had come to Belfast to celebrate the best of Irish music. Why didn't people talk about this more? Have you seen and heard coverage about this? I have, but it's, I mean, as you can imagine, my algorithm is feeding me a great deal of Northern Irish content. I was seeing video after video and it looked incredible. Yeah, I think in a world that often appears to be so bleak, how fantastic is this? Seriously, as you say,

not that long ago, this just couldn't have happened. I think nearly, well, over one and a half million people going to Belfast to celebrate the best of Irish music is remarkable. She goes on to say it included a large contingent of Ulster bands who are usually seen parading on the 12th of July, which is obviously the Battle of the Boyne and the Orange Lodge and Protestant events. So we're now all asking why we don't pedestrianise the city. Just search for the flower on the socials and you'll see what a difference it made for a week

and how proud everybody is of Belfast. It was such a joy after the race riots which took place earlier in the year. Julianne, thank you for that. I think that's amazing. And congratulations to Belfast on staging that remarkable event. you're like this. My son got his A-level results yesterday and having had COVID during them,

he still managed to get three A's. Well, congratulations, how fantastic. But didn't get into his university first choice because he was one mark short of an A-star. Oh, God. It's very difficult to see him so disappointed having got such incredible results. I know it's going to work out in the end and this time next year he'll wonder what it was all about, but it's not easy to watch them going through it. Julianne, I know what you're saying. It isn't, is it? It's really grim. but how brilliantly he's done, especially having had COVID during the exams, and it's such a shame that sometimes, but you're right, of course, he'll go somewhere, he'll have an amazing time, and it's what fate had in store.

I'm a bit of a believer in fate. Sometimes I think what happens is meant to happen. I agree. I think it was very hard. I remember the year when I got my eye-level results, and one of my friends had missed out by literally a couple of marks on her university place. And of course when it came, she got it remarked because you can do. And of course it came back then.

She had made the grade, but it was too late. The place was gone. I think that's one of the cruelest things about it. I didn't know that happened. Yes, it can. It's just gone, even if you get it remarked and go out. Oh, I see. They'll have given it to someone else.

People must tell us about this if that's happened to anybody in their family over the last couple. I thought if you were going for a remark, they might kind of hold the place. No, they don't. Because it's all so fast. And the whole clearing business happens so quickly. I think that's one of the sort of scariest things about it is it feels like in a blink of an eye it's all sorted and that's where you're going.

Right. But I think she really loved where she ended up in the end. There we are. So there we go. That's what I wanted to hear. Yeah. Where did you go? I went to Oxford.

Yes, of course, okay. Well, we'll move on. I wasn't going to bring that up. You put me in a spot there. No, Laura. You're brilliant. Of course you went to Oxford. Right. Let's completely change the subject.

Hasn't it been changeable with the weather? It certainly has. Yes, and hopefully it's going to rain this. God, I hope it rains this week. I'll probably be grumpy after two days of grey skies and rain, but I really do hope it rains. So, Laura, this is the time of year when things really start to happen in the literary world. It's weird, isn't it? Because although it's not the books don't come out in the summer, what is the significance of September in terms of books and the book world and the publishing world generally?

September and early October are huge times for the book's world because basically that is the time to publish a book if you think it's got a chance of getting into the sort of Christmas bestseller range so you want people to from September October be thinking oh I've seen that book everywhere and then once they start to think about their Christmas shopping they think I'll get a copy of that so it really is the peak time to publish a book

which is why it's quite an exciting time for us in the book's desk because after a few fallow months might be harsh, but certainly quieter. Yes, a little cruel than those people who have brought out books in a couple of months. But, you know, in sort of mid-August, there really aren't very many books that come out at all. And then come September, there's this great glut. It's harvest time. But the brutal truth is, and this sounds very judgmental and a bit snooty, But at Christmas, people who don't buy books, buy books, don't they?

Yeah, that's the crucial thing, because there only are so many people in the country who are going to sort of every week or every month be going out and buying new books for themselves. That isn't everyone. But lots and lots of people will go out and buy books as presents for Christmas. So that is the time when you can really make money and break out beyond what is a kind of normal sales amount for a book to something really extraordinary. Right. I was reading over the weekend, I'd call.

can't remember where it might have been in a Times article about super readers who are the people who I think the statistic was they there are 20% of the population read 80% of the books sold or something with that. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that that wouldn't surprise me at all because, I mean, I know people that I would talk to them and say, well, you know, I read a book on my summer holiday and then I'll buy a book or two over Christmas as a present. And that's their engagement with the books world, which is obviously completely fine. normal. Yeah, but then you also meet people who, I mean, you see people

who read hundreds and hundreds of books a year and I don't know how they have time for it. I mean, I've got to do it for a job and I don't read half as many as these people. So there really are people who are kind of propping up the industry. We should probably give them some sort of medal for it. No, I think they probably do deserve a medal and also, of course, shout out to independent

bookshops as well, which so many people feel so passionately about. Without them, and there's one in the Crosby, the suburb of Liverpool that I grew up, in Pritchard, so I'm going to mention it because it's just fantastic that it's still going. It's in a high street that frankly,

to be brutal about it, doesn't have a fat lot going for it and they have stuck it out and whenever I go I try and buy at least one book because it's just got to be there. Those places have got to carry on existing. I think it's so good when you can go into a bookshop and you

just know that you can talk to a real person and they'll have so much knowledge and they'll be able to say, okay, well, you like this book and that book, and you like these kind of themes, this book will be perfect for you. And you just can't get that from Amazon or from ordering a book online. I think it's so, so valuable. Okay, well, we'll talk about some of the big names. I was asking you about the Casillac Chronicles before I went on holiday

because a relative of Elizabeth Jane Howard, who wrote The Chronicles, has written a sequel. That's correct, isn't it? That was actually what made me think about the original book. So she is called Louisa Young and she's written a kind of follow-up to the fifth book in the series. Yes, and there's going to, in total,

be a trilogy of follow-up books that she writes. The first one is called the Golden Oars and it comes out at the end of August. Right. And I actually travelled to Suffolk a few weeks ago to interview Louisa Young at the home, at Elizabeth Jane Horrod's final home, Bridge House.

Right. And to talk to her about it. So it's quite an exciting thing but I imagine also quite a big responsibility because so many people really love those books. I said to you, would I like the Castle at Chronicles? Okay, here we go. Drum roll. Well, okay, I mean, suffice to say, thank you.

I, to my shame, and I do feel terrible, I interviewed Elizabeth Jane Howard just before she died, actually quite relatively shortly before she died, and I hadn't read the Castle at Chronicles. I have now read only the first one, but honestly, it's like falling in love. It's incredible. I have now ordered all four.

of the remaining first five. But I think I'm going to have to eke them out. I don't want to get through them all too quickly. Why do they still work? I mean, in a way, I can't quite understand why they mean so much to me or why that book meant so much to me. I didn't grow up in an upper-middle-class home

on the South Coast. I have absolutely no snooty connections whatsoever. But by God, I love these people, and I care about them. What's happening to me? Or is she just a genius? I think she really was a genius. And I think what's funny about these books is that on the surface,

they kind of do just look like it's a story about this upper middle class family living through the war. And even if you were to go and unpick a particular sentence of it, there's nothing particularly showy or flashy. She doesn't go for great images or metaphors. She gets humans. But she gets humans. That's the thing. The characters you really believe that they exist and that they,

when you close the book, that they're off living their lives somewhere. and I think that's such a skill and so few authors I think have been able to capture characters in the way that she was able to in those books and part of it is because she did use a lot of her own experiences in crafting those characters

so little details because I was reading her memoir as part of preparing for the interview there's a particular character whose father always eats the skin off her hot chocolate and that's such an image of the relationship that the father

and daughter have. And I remember reading it and thinking that's just such a kind of, kind of gross, but lovely image of what this father would do. And I would never do that, by the way. So if either of my children are listening. I just skim it off and throw it away. God, what's the need to eat it? But that is something that she really, that she experienced herself, having the skin eaten off the chocolate, hot chocolate for her. So it's just little details like that, I think, really bring it to life. And she does write about the Toffs, but she also writes about their staff. Yes. And the governess in the first book. Yes, it makes your heart squeak.

Yeah. There's so much detail about her loneliness and her isolation and her commitment to the children and... Trying to repair her cardigan a third time because she can't afford to buy another one. And she doesn't have... She's only got a bare bulb in her little poxy little room that she is. Poor Miss Milliman.

Poor Miss Milliman. I was trying groping for the name. Miss Millermint, yeah, oh God. So anyway, if you're looking for a properly indulgent, gorgeous read that will really take up time if you haven't read the Castle at Chronicles do what I do learn from my mistakes and start reading them now because then you'll be able to enjoy the other books as well

exactly yes hasn't been on telly for a while has it has been on telly it has years and years ago yeah it might be due for a bit of a Netflix revival maybe a few quid thrown in that direction I reckon they'd be amazing yeah let's let's have a think about that right what else do you want to talk about? Well, I think we should talk about some of the big books that are coming out this autumn, that people might want to sort of jot down in their diaries and go out and get them. One of them is the Housekeeper by Rose Tramien. That's coming out September 17th. And it is basically a rewriting of Rebecca by Daphne de Mori. So if you've read and loved that book, which I

know so many people have, this is quite interesting. And it's obviously, that's a, again, it's quite a big responsibility to take it on. But Roeufels. Tramayton, I think she's got, she's been writing novels for 50 years now. She's got the, she's got the experience and she's got the ability. So it's basically the story of you'll remember the character of Mrs. Danvers, who's this sort of evil housekeeper. And this is the story of Mrs. Donovsky, who is a housekeeper, and she is an immigrant to the UK, and she's working very quickly as a housekeeper.

It's contemporary? No, no, no. It's set sort of post-keeper. World War II. Okay, right. And she's working quite contentedly as a housekeeper when there is a visitor to the house one day and it's a very impressive and attractive female writer who's called, of course, Daphne de Moray. And from here Rose Tremaine imagines this love affair between the two women, which of course turns sour and then results in the creation of this character of Mrs. Danvers. So it's very immersive.

It's very sexy, the whole thing, and I really enjoyed it. And I think if you're someone that really liked Rebecca, this is quite a fun book. Yeah, but does it need... I mean, Rose Tremaine is amazing. Her book, The Road Home, that was her award-winning most recent book?

Is that correct? She's written so much. She has the most recent, but that was certainly that did win awards. Restoration? Yes, yeah. That might be her most loved, I think. Restoration.

I mean, she's hugely successful. And I just wonder why, why she would choose to rewrite this? Did it need rewriting? Well, I suppose it's not necessarily a rewriting but being inspired. Or reimagining the circumstances that created that original novel.

And I think there are some books that you read and you do feel very inspired by them and leave them sort of feeling this character deserves more of an exploration, deserves to be seen in a different light. And I suppose that's what she's done with the character of Mrs. Danvers. So I think I see where you're coming from,

I think they can be quite hard to get right. But I think if you're a very good writer, you can probably manage it. Okay, well, that's Rose Tremaine, and that book is called The Housekeeper. I think a lot of people are going to be very, very into that. Right, what else have you got? Well, this is my, I'm going to say it,

my book of the year so far. It's only August, but I think it's my favorite book of this year and of last year as well. I've absolutely loved it. It's called Partita by Barbara Kingsolver. Now, I know lots of people read and loved Demon Copperhead, which was another reimagining David Copperfield. Yes, and Barbara was on the podcast.

Well, there we go. Friend of the show. Friend of the show. Well, there might be stretching it, but yes. This book is about a woman called Olivia. She grows up in rural poverty, in a very difficult family situation. she loses her brother when she's quite young

and she's got a difficult relationship with her mother. They're a farming family but they're really struggling to make a living but she has this escape route which is that she's an incredibly gifted pianist and she wins a scholarship to go off to college and study music and it looks like this is going to be her great escape and her new life but of course it doesn't quite turn out that way. Where is it set? It's set in the States first of all in the sort of Southern America

where she is from and then she goes off to university in a very different place also in America but a whole different she's never met these sorts of people before and been in this environment before so it's a really difficult thing for her to get used to but she encounters this man called Sigurd who's very handsome and charming

too handsome and charming we might say and everything goes badly wrong and I won't say anything more but it's just such an incredible novel there's so much drama in it so much incident, the character really draws you in, and it's the sort of thing where I was reading it, and I was getting so frustrated with this male character,

Sigurd, that I sort of had a falling out with my husband because I was so angry at this man that I applied it to old man. Shout out to Mr Hackett. Yeah, he made it through, he made it through. Is he all right? He's fine, he's fine. It wasn't a falling out, but I sort of was feeling a bit angry. with men. That's what the book made me feel. But if you enjoyed Demon Copperhead,

I think you'll really love this one as well. And then another big name I'll just mention is Bonnie Garmus. Lessons in Chemistry, that came out a few years ago and was of course a global phenomenon. People loved that story of Elizabeth Zott. It became an Apple TV show, which was very successful. Peck and Peck at first seems very different. It's about a young man who wants to become a poetry editor at a magazine in New York in the 80s. But actually there are lots of similarities. There's this sort of very impressive mother figure who has all of these hidden depths. And there is also a dog. You might remember the dog in lessons in chemistry. Here we've got another dog who is a hero. So if you like impressive mothers and even more impressive dogs,

peck and peck and peck is the one for you. Why is it called peck and peck and peck? That's the name of the poetry magazine that he goes to work at and it's run by two brothers who both have the surname Peck. Oh I thought so it's nothing to do with the South London area. Not Peckham, Peck and Peck. Oh I see so. That could be the sequel. It's my first day back at work for a while. A spin-off. Perhaps it should be. Right and we should also say because Kate Atkinson is joining us next week, her new novel is also out and she's a woman who just, I mean, she just pleases so many. I mean, I love her books. I have to pay more attention than I'm normally capable of paying, but she is so worth the investment, because I just think she's a genius.

I haven't read the new one yet, but Robbie has read it and absolutely loved it. And it's set in 1950s Britain in the lead up to that great festival of Britain in 1951. And I think it's definitely one to look out for. Brilliant. Laura, thank you very much. Thank you. Laura Hackett there. And that was the end. That was the conclusion of this. edition of off-air with Jane and Fee, without Fee, who's back in a week or so's time. Was she in Norway for the whole two weeks? No, she's not going to be in Norway for the whole two weeks. I think she's also going to Suffolk and some other things.

But she's actually off for two weeks and a day because there's the August bank holiday. Oh, that's true. She's a cany of pressure as well, isn't she? Well, let's wave a fond farewell to Eve, who is going off on a richly deserved ninth holiday of 2026. Thank you. We'll see her soon. Thanks for all the emails. We'll have many more of them tomorrow. It's Janefee at times.com. And Laura Hackett is available. Well, your many works are available on the times.com, aren't they? They are. Yeah. Thank you. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.