Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Jane to the power of two - with Lorraine Kelly

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Jane and Jane talk poetry, self esteem, and poor Brian's goolies. They're joined by Lorraine (yes, all the names on this podcast have to rhyme today) Kelly to discuss the 'No Butts' campaign. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producer: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I don't, for God's sake, include that. Hello and welcome to this, I'm going to call it a special edition of Off Air. I was told once by an editor at the BBC that there was no such thing as a special programme or indeed podcast because that undermined all the other programs you've done and so jane malkerians there's nothing special about you or about this edition of off air okay got it thank you jane garvey also today's specials in many restaurants are actually just the leftovers from the day before with a little bit of special gravy so yeah just the special of the day steer clear beware now what i didn't know

until today was that you'd spent a large chunk of your professional life working in new york so or living in new york so um you must have had some monster meals out there well i'm talking in terms of quantity yes um i would say i probably took home half my dinner most of the time when i ate out particularly if you order a steak or a pork chop or anything like that um yeah they are enormous absolutely enormous and i i used to find it very funny when i talked to americans about their visits to england because often they would just say i I mean, your restaurants, I mean, your meals are very small. Did they really say that? Yes, but I would say to them, well, but your meals are so big

and nobody needs to eat that much. You mentioned pork chop and it struck me that, I don't remember the last time I ate a chop. I'd never choose a chop off a menu. Would you not? No, because to me, they remind me of certainly growing up in the 70s and 80s and there's an awful lot of fiddling and faffing for a very small amount of edible meat so that's why you need a new york pork chop because they're bigger than your head

are they oh yeah a double cut pork chop i might have to cook one and bring you one in jane garvey cold chop i couldn't think of anything nicer. I'm trying to be nice to this woman because she's here. Now, Fee is not here. I think I might have advertised that she would be here today, and she's not, but we really... She's got a sort of nasty thing that just won't shift, but I'm sure she'll be all right by Monday.

But a lot of people, understandably, Jane, are concerned about Brian and Barbara her relatively new kittens because they were going in for their significant operations this week now Barbara I know had a little toilet incident this morning on route or just before she was taken for her surgery but I'm sure she'll be all right Brian on the other hand i'm told is absolutely fine and there's absolutely no question that fee's not just at home with the kittens today well it did cross my mind that perhaps she got one of those pet days you can have and it actually also made me i was feeling very guilty about my cat so i tried to book her a vet's appointment um i think he was sitting next

to me at the time and of course they do come up with that bit about, and what's her name? And, you know, Dora, is it Dora Garvey? Yes, that's right. Legally. Legally, yes. That is her name. Dora Garvey. And you just feel a bit of a brat, don't you? Well, I just have to say it was lovely

because I arrived in the office and within three minutes I felt like I was deep in this podcast. In our territory. Ringing the vet about your cat standruff. So thank you for making me feel just immediately deep inside the podcast. I mean, this is what's called journalism, Jane, and welcome to it. Let's bring in a listener called Ria who says, I'm a big fan, or is it Ria?

Do apologise if I've got that wrong. I've listened from the other place and I love your work. Well, thank you. Listen, I regularly enjoy your daily podcast, but sadly miss your live programme. Well, you can catch up with it. Just get the Times Radio app. There are no excuses. I would claim I'm one of your younger listeners, but at nearly 37, I'm not sure I can. No, you can't, because we have actually met a listener at least 15 years younger than you.

So there you go. But you are still youthful. Don't get, I mean, that's absolutely true. She goes on to say, I had to get in touch when I heard about Brian Glover. That's the kitten. As it reminded me of one of our favourite family stories. My husband, Matt, a teenager at the time, answered the home phone and was asked by the vet who was calling, is this Billy's dad? should say billy was my in-law's family dog matt thought about it for a while and then replied no it's his brother and that of course don't be mean to matt that's the right answer absolutely brilliant that is brilliant um um this is from Tina. Have you seen this one?

Watching Obsession in my teenager's bedroom with the floor wardrobe and the festering mugs. As my husband is watching blue lights on the big telly downstairs, as we call it in our house, I've had to come up here. The teenager came home, shuffled around downstairs and then comes upstairs to her room, catching me, watching a man getting off, sniffing a pillow. I now know not to watch TV in her bedroom again, and she has called me a pervert. Thank you, Jane. Yeah, I should have given you a warning about that, Tina. It's a scene that didn't quite work for me.

Have you not seen Obsessions? Is it a particularly nice pillow? It wasn't very nice. Listen, you get to a certain age and you enjoy soft furnishings i'm i'm sad i've got plans tonight i might actually just cancel them all have you had to watch one of obsession obsession no i mean it's it's not very good but it's very watchable do i have to watch it inside a cupboard? Well, you might have to. Yeah, you might.

Yes. Anyway, listen, I can't. I'm a TV critic for the Radio Times. I need to. I need to maintain my professional credentials. Which email has taken your fancy? This one. Dear Jane and Fee, I'm about to turn 60, but I'm finding it hard to justify much celebration

as I don't consider myself to have made the success of an adult life I struggle with responsibility and I find it hard to deal with making mistakes so despite starting out with a master degree from Cambridge I gradually move myself down the career ladder rather than up I mean this is just

I think this is an email that is so raw and vulnerable and I think really probably speaks to an awful lot of people's experience that they don't often talk about. So she goes on to say, at the same time, I found it hard to build the sort of friendships I enjoyed when I was younger. She feels that she's failed to fulfill her potential

and has caused collateral damage to herself and others along the way. And as a result, has very little remaining self-esteem. And what she's asking you and fee who are i have to say extremely wise um should she resign herself to underachievement and aim to lead a small but fairly safe life or keep trying to accomplish something more significant at the risk of further anxiety and disappointment i mean these are big questions a very big question and of course i can't really attempt to answer that but i think um i'm not i'm not saying that you're not capable of offering

wisdom jane i think fee would be good on this one and so i think we'll keep it i'm going to keep i'm going to put it to one side um and to that listener we are not ignoring that but that is a really big question and it goes without saying that you sound to me like you're being incredibly hard on yourself. First of all, you mentioned just almost in passing a maths degree from Cambridge. I mean, please take it. Bank that one, because that is an incredible achievement. And I wonder sometimes, and it's a serious point from someone who could never have hoped to go to Oxford or Cambridge. I just wasn't clever enough. I think for some people that is, it's the pinnacle of their life.

And I think sometimes maybe they return to it perhaps too often. And sometimes life after these wonderful Ivy strewn college environments doesn't quite live up to expectations. I don't know. What do you think? Absolutely.

I also think there's just something at the heart of this email. I do really want to hear what Fi has to say about it when she comes back. But I think it speaks to comparison with other people's lives in a big way. That I think we're all, you know, increasingly in danger of doing because I think we look at other people's, you know, quote-unquote successes and feel that we're not matching up to our potential because, and I just think, you know, for many reasons, social media, watching others, you know, achievements,

nothing is as good in the inside as it is from the outside. It so isn't. And people these days put out a version of themselves that is the one they want other people to absolutely have a gander so much projection and actually i think a lot of people would probably feel exactly the same way as as our lovely emailer um and i think i think it's wonderful that she is asking herself questions and asking you questions um rather than just perhaps projecting a version of herself

that she maybe thinks that she should be. Yeah, it's a really good point. And I think there's never been an easier time to give yourself a hard time, precisely as you say, Jane, because there's so much ridiculous positivity out there from other people. And we all know people whose, whose real lives are very different, shall we say, from the one they choose to publicise. I mean, we all, we all come to work and we're a version of ourselves. And actually, do you know what the great thing about this podcast

and the great thing about Fi and I working together over the years has been that we have been actually very honest about sometimes saying that life is shit and really challenging and um it's not all a barrel of laughs from dawn till dusk so and i'm glad by the way that listeners feel they can sort of write they can write as as starkly as that but please to that listener do not do not be so hard on yourself and do not think for one minute that you've quotes underachieved because i very much doubt that you have i do also think it speaks to the community that you and fee have built over the years that people do you know um unburden themselves to you i have to say without wanting to get too softy here when i did spend all those many years in america i listened to you and fee

on a weekly basis to make me feel connected to home. And sometimes you must have listened and thought, thank God, they're over a thousand. Gibbering idiots. Keep them at bay. But we've come into your life. I know. And now there's no escape. Yeah, we'll definitely

go back to that next week with Fee when she's here. Now, our guest today was Lorraine Kelly. I should say we recorded this interview when Fee was around. I mean I've slightly written her off there haven't I but she was in the office when we spoke to Lorraine.

I think it was on Tuesday from memory. Now Lorraine Kelly is, I don't really need to tell you who she is, but she is the host of Lorraine on ITV and she's been a fixture really on early morning television here in the UK for many, many decades now. But importantly, she is the face of this year's No Buts campaign, which is all about preventing unnecessary deaths from the very cruel disease that is bowel cancer. Well, this is the third year that we've run our No Buts campaign. It was obviously launched by Dame Deborah.

And this is the first one that we've had without her. And it feels very strange for her not to be here. In fact, it feels very strange to talk about her in the past tense, to be honest. And really, we just wanted to continue her legacy. I mean, she's saved so many lives. She's raised so much money, you know, to help people living with bowel cancer and to research. And we just knew, well, she said to us,

did you have to keep this going? And of course we wanted to, you know, really for her. And it's just, for us, it's an amazing thing to do because we can help through her. We can help, hopefully, to get people to not be so squeamish about about poo in their bums and and check and you know help save their lives hopefully that that's the aim that's the aim and but she was something oh she was when did you first meet her you know it must be it's over three years ago it's over yeah it's longer than that i think and she had this amazing idea you know to come in it's over three years ago it's over yeah it's longer than that i think and

she had this amazing idea you know to come in the show and and to talk about bowel cancer and to talk about bums and to talk about poo and all the rest of it and and she was just one of these people you know there are just some people who are so full of life and so full of passion and energy and positivity and and i just thought we have to we have to have this woman she's just the best and you know obviously she had her own podcast the big c and she's done so many other things you know she's written books and columns and all sorts and yeah it just it just made perfect sense and and i always think that especially on daytime telly you can talk about anything you can absolutely talk about anything and and that's great that's what i love about it

you know we can smash taboos and do all sorts of things and yeah and it was just you know and she would she was up for doing things she would do dances and she would dress as a poon yeah she dressed as a poo and still looked amazing and glamorous have we we go to the um acknowledge that her glamour was was a huge part of her appeal, wasn't it? Massive, massive part of her appeal. The fact that to the end, you know, you go to see her in hospital and then when she was at home at the end, to the end,

the makeup was on, she was flawless, she was perfect, she looked beautiful, the big earrings were on, her hair was done, you know, she had lovely clothes on. She was always like that. That was kind of like her armour, done you know she had lovely clothes on she was always like that she was always like that that was kind of like

her armour if you like it was like her suit of armour that she wore and yeah she took great pride in how she looked and she was beautiful

absolutely beautiful and I loved the fact that she would put on a sparkly dress in the hospital yeah she really did and she touched

so many people you know speaking to like our doctors at the hospital you She really did. And she touched so many people. Speaking to our doctors at the hospital, they just loved her. They absolutely loved her. They could throw anything at her. And she just would say, yep, I'll do that.

I'll do this. Anything you want me to do, she was just great. But the terrible thing about bowel cancer is that more people die of it than should die of it because they just don't get the help. And they don't get the help because they still, for all our taboo busting powers, they still don't get the help. And they don't get the help because they still,

for all our taboo-busting powers, they still don't want to go to the doctor or even tell a friend that they found blood in their poo. No, they don't. And I mean, how lucky are we in this country that we get that test? That was the thing about Deborah as well. She got a lot more people to take up the test. In Scotland, when you turn 50, it's like,

happy birthday, here's your retest, you have to poo and that, send it back, and there you are. That's an amazing thing. Excuse me, sorry. That is an incredible thing that we can actually do something for ourselves. And it's insane that we don't.

And we don't because it's got to do with poo and bums and all that sort of stuff. And it's nuts. It's absolutely nuts nuts i do think though i hope and i think it's true it's a generational thing and i think that young people coming up don't have those hang-ups that maybe my generation have i do think that they're better at it and i like to think that anyway and also jane and i were talking about this actually in the production office this morning, Lorraine, that now, because of the internet and social media, you can, if you see something in your poo that you're troubled by, within five minutes you can be on a website in charge of information that could save your life. And that's different, isn't it? You don't have to think I've got to go to the doctor and he's going to snap on some latex gloves or she's going to snap on latex gloves you know i've got to take

my pants down and stuff so that's just a helpful technological change exactly no you're absolutely right and i think that's made an enormous difference an absolutely enormous difference and i know deborah was very keen on that too you know getting people to to get that message across but the basic thing was that she took the embarrassment out of it you know she really did and it's so silly and it's so British isn't it you know to die of embarrassment I mean for goodness sake

we are we're so silly about it we really are which is why I think this is this is important that we do it we also do it's quite it's like Deborah it's quite a cheeky campaign you know it is you know it's quite a cheeky campaign. You know, it is. There's a little bit of carry on about it, isn't there? Yeah, a wee bit like that.

But we do all have, we have a bowel habit, don't we? I mean, some of us are get up and go people. Some of us squeeze it in during the working day. We'll squeeze it out. Other people's last thing at night could be that you. Yeah, I'm not going there. No, certainly not, actually. I don't go at work, actually. And isn't that what we do? You know, most of us wouldn't choose to go at a railway station. We're all slightly odd about this, aren't we? Of course

we are. We've all got our own way of doing it and our own, you know, whether it's you sit in the toilet with a private eye or, you know, you go through, you scroll through your messages or listen to time radio, you know know you can do all sorts of things and that's fine and it's just when things go wrong things go a bit awry that that's yeah and things are not quite yes so that when you should get help is when your poo habit changes significantly exactly if anything changes now obviously you said if you notice something like blood and all of that, of course, immediately go for help. But also,

if you just notice that you're not going at the same time, that it's slightly different, it's different for you because everybody's totally different, then yeah, and it's just about saying, do you know what, I need a wee bit of help here. And having that conversation is great.

And that was the thing about Deborah, she allowed us to have those conversations. She did. It was incredible. But she also became very young, didn't she? And that is not really all. No. But sadly, getting,

I suppose getting more normal, if you like, there's more people who are younger that are getting diagnosed. But, you know, Deborah herself says if she'd noticed, if she had all the information that she was getting out to all the buds she'd probably still be here and you know she she ignored the signs for quite a while I didn't realize what they were for quite a while and

and her mum says that as well you know her mum said if I had been better informed you know I would have realized that something was wrong too so you know she she just doesn't she doesn't want that to happen to anyone else you know that was the thing about deborah she didn't want it to happen to anyone else and and that's what drove her i think you know it really drove her that she just wanted to make sure that nobody else went through this me she she was she was around a lot longer than she should have been sheer force of will i think of our remaining else but she but she really was and in that short time that she had wow she did i mean the months before she died she'd achieved astonishing And in that short time that she had, wow, she did. I mean, the months before she died, she'd achieved astonishing things. She was doing all sorts of stuff.

The bowel babe fund topped £11.3 million, which is incredible. Do you know how that will be spent? Because one of the interesting things as well about bowel cancer is the treatments available really can save your life can't they if the cancer is caught early enough it will be um again it will be a lot of it will be awareness you know in conjunction with um you know in conjunction with appeals like ours and research as well and to be honest you know the thing that she she wanted you research was a massive thing as well but yeah getting honest, the thing that she wanted, research was a massive thing as well. But getting

the message out there and just helping people who are living with it too. So it's our family right now, they're deciding, they're discussing with all the experts, people that looked after her, as to what they're going to do with the money. But you can be sure every single penny of that will go to help people. They are so

passionate about making sure that the people who donated and people just in their single penny of that will go to hail people i mean they are so and they're just so passionate about making sure that the people who donated and people just in there and there's thousands and they're millions it was it was wonderful she used to text you know every time i went up to another million she had to share text she was so you know she was watching it she was watching it watching this going up and up and up and up and through my hospital bed and it really helped really helped let's go back to Lorraine Kelly and while we had her with us we couldn't resist asking whether she didn't fancy a political career bearing in mind all the stuff that's been going on in her homeland I wonder whether what in a mill come on I didn't even have time to ask the question, Lorraine. It's better to be out of the tent pissing in

than in the tent pissing out. Thank you very much. And do you have any commentary, though, on what is appearing to happen at the moment? It's a spectacle, isn't it? It is. It's just that it's happened so quick. It's unravelled so fast.

I mean, obviously, there's all sorts of investigations going on. So you can't really talk about it that much. But, you know, it's just really sad. I mean, you know, not just Scottish politics. I mean, you look at politics as a whole. You know, you look at Rishi Sunak's being investigated again. I mean, you can understand why people are getting so cynical. You can understand why young people in particular are thinking,

oh, come on, what's going on here? And it's a shame, you know, because there are decent, hardworking MPs, but they all kind of get, you know, everybody just thinks, oh, you know, they're all charlatans, they're all out for what they can get. And yeah, for sure, there are some that are, but there are some people who go into public service for all the right reasons. But when you see what's happening here and in America and you see things unravelling, it is disappointing. And I think as well what's been disappointing is the fact that, you know, we have seen like in New Zealand and obviously in Scotland and we've just seen in Finland as well.

And women either being, you know, leaving their own free will or being voted out. women either being, you know, leaving of their own free will or being voted out. And that's quite sad because you want, you know, when that happened, you know, when the Prime Minister of New Zealand said, Jacinda said, I don't have enough in the tank. I mean, I had a mixture of admiration and also frustration, you know, because I thought, oh, no. And because she was the ultimate, wasn't she? And someone who was doing the job, despite being a mum,

well, because of being a mum at the time. And do you think she should have said that? No, I think she should have said it because that's the reality. And I think that you, you know, I like the fact that she was honest and that she said, I don't have the strength anymore. And Nicola Sturgeon said the same sort of thing, you know, she did at the time when she resigned. And I just think it's quite sad that politicians, men and women, but it seems particularly women, women are more honest, that do feel overwhelmed by it and that they can't actually go on.

But we think both women went through the pandemic and everything and all of the things that have happened. And I do think that female politicians come under a lot more pressure and a lot more scrutiny. I mean, we see that, don't we, on social media? And it's very easy for everyone to say, oh, just don't look at it. But

we do. And we shouldn't. And I'm quite lucky I don't actually get that much. I just mute people because then it's like they're ranting in an empty room. Yeah. It's just disappointing with what's going on. I just feel sort of frustrated and disappointed. Now, when the election comes around next year, politicians will be beating a path to your door because they need your viewers, don't they? They need your viewers to get up and vote.

And they absolutely do. They don't always get it right, though, do they, in terms, don't they? They need your viewers to get up and vote. They absolutely do. They don't always get it right, though, do they, in terms of how they communicate with so-called ordinary people? So who in your experience has got it right talking to your viewers? That's an interesting one. I think, well, Tony Blair was a master at it, wasn't he? I mean, really was he was able to do that he he could he was a really good like Deborah James an amazing an amazing

communicator actually and somebody like Ed Balls who's now obviously he he was always very he was always very good and his wife again she's a human being she was always very good obviously Nicola Sturgeon was was was great until it all unravelled she was very good at getting her message across in a way that made sense to people and wasn't talking down to people and I suppose in a bizarre and weird way

Johnson, Boris Johnson was if you like, he could he knew his audience, shall we say and he told them what they wanted to hear. And who's the person that you would most like to get in front of you who has always been elusive so far? Interestingly, not really that many left.

And I don't mean that in an arrogant way. I mean, all the interesting people I've been able to talk to but obviously there's people who will never sit down with you and never talk to you. You know, like the Princess of Wales will never do that

but wow, wouldn't you two love to talk to her? Wouldn't you love to talk to Kate? What would your opening question be, Lorraine? Oh my God!

Yeah, give us the opening question and we'll use it. Penny, I'd have to write a good old thing about that. What do you really think about this? Yeah, give us the opening question, we'll use it. Penny, I'd have to write a good old thing about that. What do you really think about this? Yeah, I just think she's kind of become a wee bit like the Queen

in that you don't really know what she's thinking about things. We don't actually hear her speak, do we? Very seldom, very, very seldom we hear her speak, which is a shame, really. It is a shame, really, because I think she would have a lot to say. Maybe after the coronation she might. It'll be interesting this coronation don't you think? It'll be interesting to see

especially younger people whether or not they'll have the parties and buy the wedding and do all of that. It looks like it's not really quote the imagination. No, not in the same way as the platy jub. That's here when as the as the the PlatyJube

yeah last year when everybody got mad at the Platinum Jubilee and enjoyed it and it was a big celebration yeah it'll be

it'll be done beautifully because they always do these things very well but I'm not sure I'm not sure it'll be an interesting thing again

where will you be spending your coronation I'll be here I'll be working I'll be working down here on the covering it so yeah I'll be here I'll be here. I'll be working. I'll be working down here on the cover in it. So, yeah, I'll be here.

I'll be here to see what's going on, see who turns up. Well, can we ask just a couple of questions about the ITV family? Are things sort of alright with all of the presenters? Are you all getting on okay?

Well, to be honest with you, we're all in kind of splendid isolation because... Oh, don't play this game. I want to believe that you're always popping round to Holly Willoughby's for a cup of sugar. We're all separate programmes. We all have our own separate teams. So I don't really see them. I mean, I saw Susanna this morning

because, you know, we sort of wave to each other. And I really like her. And I'm annoyed that we don't get to see each other as much as we do because she is, she's good. She's a woman's woman, Susanna. Oh, she's bright. She's bright and sharp. And I think she's, you know, I can see she works so hard

and she makes it look effortless. And I'm a huge admirer. She's a smashing girl. But no, I think she's just getting on with it. You know, just get on with it I mean, for goodness sake, I've been doing this since 1984 and it's extraordinary. I was still at primary school when you

started, Lorraine. Oh, be quiet Do you have something else on the horizon that you would like to do once Oh sure, I feel shut set I love, love, love doing reading, absolutely love it And I think it's brilliant. You've got that totally instant connection with your audience right away. And it's very intimate. And you can obviously listen in the car, do all of that. And I would love to do more of that. And I also would love to write. I would love to write. And I really, you know, there's, I have many stories that I would love to tell. What are the biggest issues for your audience?

I'm thinking about, you know, the government would love us all to be talking about, let's do maths until we're 45, whatever it was. But what actually gets your audience going and what will they vote on next time around? Well, it's the things that get us all going. You know, it's cost of living. It's, you know, it's jobs, decent jobs. It's the NHS. I mean, the NHS health is massive.

It's a massive thing. You know, and obviously being able to afford to keep your house. It's those issues. And very basic stuff as well. Potholes. If you do an item on potholes, as you too well know, inundated and bins it's the basic the basic things people i don't think people are really thinking about whether or not they're doing

maths you know that's fine and and yeah i mean i agree to a certain extent and i would certainly like to see more women doing physics and maths and you know all of that but yeah it's it's just the basic thing that we all that we all think about and that affects all of our lives. We worry about our children and we worry about our parents. But health is a massive thing. We do. That's why we've got such great doctors on the show, you know, because

we do get a lot of them. Viewers want to know more about health issues. Is there a taboo left? Oh gosh, that's a really difficult one i'm not sure i think we probably have done most of them i suppose the menopause was the one that you know nobody ever talked about and now we talk about it a lot and quite right too um but i don't know if there is you know i'm not sure there must be i think understanding the proliferation, I can never say that word, of paedophilia, actually,

is something that we simply don't talk about. We are unwilling to talk about that. And I think at the moment, because we are beginning to understand exactly what the internet has brought to the world, there's still us in our older generation I think are very unwilling to go and really look at what's happening

the younger generation. Yeah I think you're right I think you're right and I think as well there's a difficulty that we have to make sure, I think it's really important for certainly my generation and you two are much younger than I am, is to make sure that you're still in touch with what's going on and you still have, you know,

and that's why I love doing what I do because every single day, and I'm sure you're the same, but every single day you learn something. And that does mean you've got to look at the dark stuff as well as all of the wonderful stuff. That's really important. I don't know if you...

I know you've got a daughter, Lorraine, and we've got daughters too. We were having a conversation in the office the other day about sex and about choking in sex. What on earth? Well, that's kind of what we were saying. What was that to me? I'm so glad you talked about that. Because funnily enough, we were reading, it was actually in the Times, and my husband, he said to me, what the hell is going on?

I mean, you know, we were absolutely, absolutely no there's not many things that you saw because you know we think we're pretty broad-minded and and he was like what the hell is this and i said i have absolutely no idea so obviously we you know we looked at it read the article had a chat about it and i thought is that and it was that thing was is that what the young people are doing out there? I mean, I was really shocked by that. But the extraordinary thing is, Lorraine, that when we talked about it in the office where our production staff are much younger than us, they couldn't understand our outrage at all

because they don't see it as being an attack on your safety or submission. But see, I do. I do. I'm with you. And I'm really worried about Fitby doing, because they're brave, intelligent women. Well, that's it. That's what we do.

I don't know if that worries me. It's terrifying to our generation. But I wonder, is that a subject you could tackle first thing in the morning? Yeah, no, I don't think there's anything out out of bounds yeah you know i really don't i honestly don't i think we could in funny enough we actually did um discuss that as well and it will be something that we do because yeah and and you've just highlighted the fact that there is this enormous gap and and i would want to talk to young girls and say but don't you feel unsafe? Don't you feel, why do you feel that you have to do that?

And I want to find out, do they feel, they must feel unsafe. They must, should. They say not, but I think our point also was how awful for a whole generation of young men to be experiencing their sexual pleasure through the submission of a woman. I mean, that's not to refact. And that isn't right. And how far, where do you draw the line? And all of this, it gets very bloody.

And I think it's really, you know what? I'm pretty glad I'm the age I am. I think growing up now and being young now for so many reasons, it's so hard. I don't know the rules. We've just demonstrated that I don't need to. And something like that. I really don't.

And it is a worry, you know. It's scary. I don't want to see women in that environment. I just don't. I just don't think it's showy. That was Lorraine Kelly. And if you've got anything to say, particularly actually about the last little bit of that interview,

do let us know. It's janeandfee at times.radio. Here's a question from Laura. I'm not sure if I imagined this, but I think you mentioned a novel set in Leicester. For the life of me, I can't find the reference. Laura's in Brisbane. Good grief.

And she wants to read a novel about Leicester. Well, it's escapism. Takes all sorts. Actually, I don't. I'm afraid I think you may have imagined it. And I'm the only books I can. So I always associate the great Sue Townsend with Leicester. Adrian Mole. What's that Leicester? It was somewhere in the Midlands, wasn't it? I think she was from Leicester. And I think Adrian Mole lived in Leicestershire, if not Leicester. Could be wrong, but that's all I can think of, Laura. Maybe it was that.

I'm actually, this is a terrible thing to shoehorn in, but I was mentioned in one of the Adrian Mole books. Because Adrian Mole, yes, yes, Kate Lee. For once, she looks impressed. It was one of the later ones when Adrian was a fully grown adult and he used to spend the evening listening to the Drive Time show On Five Live And that was you? He was politically involved

And I did it with the great Peter Allen And we are both referenced in an Adrian Mould book How cool is that? That's actually incredibly cool See, I've impressed you That's actually a better name drop than the former Prime Minister You mentioned to me earlier Stop it!

I tell everybody that anecdote. And you'll probably hear it again. It's like on a loop. What have you got, Jane? I've got so many emails from your listeners in New Zealand. Yeah, go on. What are they worrying about? Massive in New Zealand.

Well, there was a poem, but somebody's left it off the email um sorry about that i'm just i'm not here for my email reading skills am i good lord oh turn it over oh this is a lovely email okay i'm glad i found it dear jane and fee a new listener from new zealand writes this poem struck a chord after listening to your podcast and the emailing asking if her safe secure man was the one for her maybe she would like it too um very best wishes from sarah who for the first time ever is regretting her commute isn't longer because she can only listen to half your show at a time um i don't think anyone needs to listen to me reading a whole poem well on the air um my public speaking experience coming in um it's called if i had three

lives after melbourne by the whitlands if i had three lives i'd marry you in two the other perhaps that life over there at starbucks sitting alone writing a memoir maybe a novel or this poem no kids probably a small apartment with a view of the river. And books, lots of books. And time to read. Friends to laugh with and a man sometimes, for a weekend. To remember what skin feels like when it's alive. Not sure where this is going.

I'd be thinner in that life. Vegan. Practice yoga. I'd go to art films, farmer's markets, drink martinis and swingy skirts and big jewelry i'd vacation on the main coast and wear a flannel shirt weekend guy left behind loving the smell of sweat and aftershave more than i did him i'd walk the beach at sunrise find perfect shell spirals and study pop mark water makes in sand and i'd wonder sometimes if i'd ever find you well that's

actually really lovely isn't it lovely? Yeah Thank you, Sarah Yes, no, thank you, Sarah That's a lovely, lovely poem And this is the second thing I didn't expect to be doing today Reading poetry on your podcast Or seeing Jane Garvey doing flamenco dancing earlier

It's been quite an afternoon It has Thank you for this And yes, I think, would you go home a better woman? I'm not sure. I'm going home with this poem in my pocket, though, if that's all right. Poetry doesn't hit the spot, but that actually... It's really lovely.

Very lovely. Who's it by? Yeah, just called The Whitlams. We'll find out. This is actually an example of F me and I doing public service. I mean, you know, that doesn't happen very often. Not here. I've done a lot of public...

I mean, honestly, if you want to hear me doing public service, look up Woman's Hour Chlamydia and you'll hear I'm there frequently. Right. Dear Garvin Glover, thank you for this week's COVID watch. Monday, I had a terrible headache and I was sick. I carried on and I went to work, as you do. I felt rubbish on Tuesday. Wednesday, I was cold all day.

Still had that stupid headache. I listened to your ramblings and I suddenly thought, I think I might have COVID. Tonight, I did a test and it lit up in seconds. I wouldn't have thought it was COVID, as the symptoms are nothing like they were. So thank you. And that's kind of the point we were making, Jane,

that it's just morphed into a whole new disease. It's a whole different beast. It really is. And it is that shocking thing, as the listener says, when you do the test thinking, nah, and then, oh, OK. And also, Steph, who is the emailer, thank you, Steph, mentions a subject that we did talk about, I think earlier in the week or last week,

or the week before, about when friendship groups slightly change because people people have a bit more money or some people do. And Steph says, my husband and I have two other couples that we love spending time with. But recently, one couple have both had big promotions. When we went out to dinner with them recently, we were so shocked to spend £100 on a meal for just two of us. Much as we love them, we just can't sustain the costs associated with going out like that. And we'd rather spend that on our kids or on charity. It just seemed obscene. So now we have a dilemma as our wages are frankly unlikely to change anytime soon. It's tricky. And I think that's a really's a thank you steph that is a really interesting chunk of real life experience isn't it you know i mean i i shop as i've mentioned before quite

regularly at little um because their fruit and veg and stuff is really good it is also really cheap now i'm not going to pretend i've got money problems i'm very fortunate and i don't have but i have noticed over the course of the last couple of years there are more and more people in that shop and they're shopping for everything it's not a question of just picking oh they've got nice big peppers and that's frankly the way I shop in there I get my bread and I bugger off out of there but there are people who are quite clearly they're really careful they have no option but to be careful and the food bills have shot up I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world, but I imagine not dissimilar to what's happening in the UK.

The basics are properly expensive. And I do think there's a very difficult thing in friendship groups. And I was listening to the podcast when you were discussing this earlier in the week. It must have been this week, yeah. And I think it's very hard because it's difficult to admit, even to your good friends, when you're struggling financially, or maybe not even struggling, but just thinking, actually, I don't want to be spending that on a night out. I haven't got that to spare. That needs to go on the heating bill or the childcare.

And it's very difficult to be the one saying, I can't do those things. And I think we all need to be quite mindful i think of you know what's what's happening for everyone and perhaps i think certainly i've found um maybe just saying to people can i come to yours do you want to come to ours rather than us going out yeah everyone breathes a sigh of relief and says, oh, thank goodness. I didn't want to spend 80 quid on that either. I do think we've sort of, I mean, this is a very London-centric thing to say. People going out to restaurants, you know.

I mean, we assume perhaps it's a given. It's not a given at all. But I think it is something that happens in London. And certainly when i mentioned to people perhaps it would be better and easier and cheaper around if you know we just started cooking again for other people um there's a very positive response um because i think you know people are finding it a lot more difficult financially yeah for you know across the board that doesn't matter

whether you know you were doing your weekly shop and liddles or um you know um you're cutting back on things you know that you would have just you would have just taken for granted yeah but there's absolutely it's a very british thing to be able to talk about all sorts of stuff but not really money i sent a text message saying that this morning. Did you? Yeah. The one thing I can't talk about. Yeah. Because it's properly awkward. Yeah. It makes you cringe. Really squirmy. Really squirmy. Well, I'm going to Glasgow tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's been very quiet in Scotland.

So I very much doubt. Not much going on at all. There's nothing going on. What could possibly go wrong? And I'll be here in London where there's also nothing going on. Yeah, exactly. So we'll both be equally bored. No, I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. Hang on a sec. Oh, thank you, Kate.

If I Had Three Lives is written by Sarah Russell. Sarah Russell. Sarah, I congratulate you because that's a work of genius. It's very moving. I was wondering if it was the same Sarah who sent the email, but it's not. She's not the poet. She's not the poet, but she's a good poetry picker.'s like ourselves she's someone who appreciates poetry jane yes absolutely why are you called jane by the way do you have you ever had that i've asked my parents on a number

of occasions why um i was going to be called philip if i was a boy today i was going to be called jonathan oh there we go um jane was my surname is quite long and you know, and difficult for people to pronounce and spell. I certainly can't get my head around that. And I think they just thought it would be an easy name for people to pronounce. And, you know, four letters can't go too far wrong. I think they also just really liked it. OK, right. I was OK with Jane.

It's the fact that my parents went for susan as a middle name that i've never what's wrong with susan it's just so i'm sorry well my middle name is ellen e-double-l-e-n but growing up up north everyone thought it was helen and i just couldn't pronounce it right whereas down south they're much more sophisticated aren't they well both you and i are northerners we're finding it very sophisticated down here. And we can pick up our H's as well as anyone, Jane Garvey. Almost as well as anyone. Yeah, it's Jane Arvey, actually.

No, it's a G. Anyway, never mind. Right. Join a version of this on next week. No, Fee will be back then. I'm sure she will. Have a lovely weekend and may Brian's ghoulies be at rest. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he was an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't,

then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week. And you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.