Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Knick-knacks for dickheads (with Adrian Dunbar)

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Welcome to this almost-Trump-free edition of Off Air. Jane and Fi ask whether you should be bringing J-cloths to a dinner party? Which Bloody Mary came first? Should we be using liquid soap or bars of soap? Plus, actor Adrian Dunbar discusses the 'Kiss Me, Kate' musical coming to cinemas and Line of Duty. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Podcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

But the hormones up and down in our house, I think every day's a bloody period drama. Know what I'm saying? Oh, I do love. Well done. Thank you. Too horny menstruation there. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fi is sponsored by John Lewis Money. Fi, is there anything you can't find at John Lewis? No. As well as all the great bedding, kitchen kit,

beauty from brands that we all know and love, you can pick up cosy cashmere, Christmas decorations and even essentials for your pet. How about a new collar for Nancy? Well, and some sparkly pieces to wear to all those festive get-togethers. Well, quite. They even do money too, Jane. They really do have it all. At John Lewis Money, in-house experts and trusted partners work together to offer money products for real life.

From the John Lewis Partnership credit card to insurance and travel money they can help you think outside the bank. To find out more search John Lewis Partnership credit cards. That's the spirit. Credit subject to status, 18 plus years UK residents TNCs apply. John Lewis PLC is a credit broker, New Day Limited is the lender. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fi is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well it's crossed my mind, tell me a bit more about it. Well with Norwegian Cruise Line you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European

destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go local shore excursions as well as an immersive program of on-board experiences. I can't lie I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship. Well Jane their fleet has so many unique bars lounges and restaurants they also have fantastic entertainment shows facilities on board you wouldn't be short of things to do. Plan ahead to discover your dream Europe 2025 cruise. It's certainly one way to beat the winter blues. Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information call 0333 222 6513 contact your travel agent or visit ncl.com. Hello, welcome to another week on Off Air and I don't know, is it time to say goodbye to the genital shaped veg? No, don't be ridiculous. Well, we did have one very serious email, Fee, saying that, you know, it's all very well to laugh at, let's be honest, veg that looks a bit like testicles.

Would we find it funny if it were female parts being knocked? Yes, because I think that the very erotic squash was definitely a woman. I think it was a woman. And I think if you... some of the buttocks that have been sent to us, especially the buttocks with hemorrhoids on them, I think they are... they belong to both genders. Well, as you know, when it comes to hemorrhoids... And other genders. It's a delicate subject and I don't... I really...

No. So I'd say keep them coming and also also there's just how disappointing it would be if you opened your bag of parsnips, possibly on December the 22nd, in order to prepare them for your Christmas lunch, and you found a complete whopper of amusing genitalia form in there, and you thought, oh, I can't send it to those daff old bats

on their podcast because they're not interested anymore. I think we will always be interested in a vegetable that makes us laugh. We don't know, Jane, when we're going to need them again. We're not back in the gigglesome territory yet. Not quite. No, OK. You're right. OK. You've spoken. Can I just say the sun is out in London for what it feels like the first time in two or three weeks? It's been very, very foggy and grey. Yeah, it's been very grey. And today is beautiful. So we thank whoever for that, don't we?

But can we just bring in Derek? Derek really just thinks we're a pair of right thickos. Welcome Derek. Everyone is welcome. Even you, Pamela. Jane and Fee at Timestop Radio. Derek says, I hope you're both well. I loved your bewilderment and curiosity about the abbreviations of state names on Thursday's podcast. This is American state names, wasn't it? There doesn't seem to be any logical pattern, one of you said. The other one said, it's very confusing. Spoken with the astonishment of people who've never used a UK postcode. Spoiler, Swindon and Swansea have different abbreviations. Or come across the idea that

sometimes place names share the same letters and therefore would have to have different abbreviations. Classic! You let me know when you get to the bottom of this complex system. I hope you resolve it soon. Maybe the Times would like to do a deep dive investigation. Well, I tell you what, we have been schooled by Derek there and we take it Derek. We do. We're going to have a period of reflection. To your point about Pamela, Pamela, it sounds like you listening to us is a form of self-harm and my advice would be to just don't, just walk away, walk away, find yourself in the

warm and loving embrace of a different podcast and all will be fine. But Pamela, poor woman, says she's been listening to me for about 30 years. She must be bored shit, well I think she is bored shitless. She's got some thoughts. She certainly has. Yeah. Anyway, but we've had some really lovely emails just over the last couple of days and we thank you so much for bothering.

It's great to come in on a Monday and poor old Eve is wrestling the wedge of emails into position. Yeah, we couldn't do without your emails. No we couldn't. And sometimes, particularly in a personal sense, when they affirm something that you've slightly been harsh on yourself about and for me last week it was the diplomat. It was the plot that I couldn't understand. Apparently no one else can. Well Jill KB is in Shropshire and she has found the second series of The Diplomat very hard to follow as well. And you see I've had exactly the same thought Jill. Jill says I was beginning to wonder as a 66 year old woman if my cognitive function was beginning to

decline and that's exactly how I felt and there have been quite a few crime drama things that I've watched recently where I have thought oh dear I'm I think I might have understood that better ten years ago what's happening to me I think actually it's shoddy scripting I think they don't have they churn them out so quickly and now with a crime drama they're quite complex aren't there and you have to do a cat's cradle that then gets unpicked over seven impossible to miss, bingeable episodes. And so they put in a lot of extra stuff that maybe wasn't there, which doesn't need to be there.

And it is very, very confusing because also they don't use an awful lot of script anymore so that they can subtitle it easily to sell it to the international markets. Is that true? Yeah, it is true. Wow, okay. So, right, so people are quite simply not saying as much. No, they're not saying as much, they're not saying things as quickly. Imagine if you go back and actually succession would have been the exception to this rule because there was so much wadgy script in that, but it did make you really sit up on your sofa,

and you should never be lying down on the floor. Please, please don't slump. Sorry, Carmen's very vulgar. But it did make you realise that you don't get scripting like that in dramas at all anymore, and the brevity of script is often because, for subtitling, all the terrible foreign audio dub thing that is still done, obviously it's much easier if you don't have as many words.

But that means sometimes it's very difficult to explain a complicated plot. Oh dear, well Derek has helped me today and you have helped me. I didn't appreciate that. Haven't Done the Diplomat did do the first episode of the new Wolf Hall series last night. Oh, now did you like it? To be honest, I couldn't work out whether one of... Is Jonathan Price's character alive or dead? I don't know, I can't do period drama, so... Okay, right. Practically, with the hormones up and down in our house, I think every day's a bloody period drama. Know what I'm saying?

Oh, do love, well done. Thank you. Shoo-horned him menstruation there. I'll tell you what, womans are never leaves you. But I, no, I, once again what really annoys me about Henry VIII is he was such an unattractive man with these great big puffy ulcerated legs. He was absolutely ghastly and he gets to be played again by Damien Lewis. Don't kid yourself Henry. Somebody with very firm buttocks and a nice chiseled jawline. The amazing thing about Henry VIII is as well that if you go by the old kind of adage that the portrait painters were making their subjects appear much more attractive than they actually

were, then yeah. Well talking about brevity of scripts and stuff, of course, I mean, I know Hilary Mantel wrote those books. I have, I must confess, I didn't read any of them. Have you read them? They're too challenging. Well, actually, do you know what? I tried and they were and I feel I just got to own it. I didn't finish Warfall. I think I only read about 40 pages and I'm sorry. I'm sorry about it.

No, you're in very, very safe hands here. There's absolutely no judgement about that. I've not read them either. Okay, just thinking. But one of my very good friends absolutely devoured them and said, there they are, the best book she's ever read. And I think it does divide, I think the nation is divisive between those of us

who love books, love reading, did dip into Hilary Mantel because we know she's a cast iron, was a cast iron genius, but we just couldn't do it. Anyway, so I wanted to enjoy this series and I will watch all of it, but very few women get to say much. The only people with any real heft and real power are of course the men. The blokes. And there is, or a princess, there is a princess Mary who went on to become Bloody Mary, as of course those of us with A-level history will remember. So she's got her future waiting for her and it wasn't very pretty.

Why is a Bloody Mary called a Bloody Mary? Is it after that Bloody Mary? It is, yeah. So she liked vodka and tomato juice with a bit of called a Bloody Mary? Is it after that Bloody Mary? It is, yeah. So she liked vodka and tomato juice with a bit of Worcester sauce. No, no. She just killed a lot of Protestants. Okay, so the drink is just named after the fact it looks red and is bloody. Isn't history horrible? I tell you what, as we're talking about stiff drinks, we have had a correspondent who said that our pronunciation of Drambuie is not quite up to the spit. It's Vicky Smith who's

joining us from Edinburgh. Very good afternoon Edinburgh. I wanted to let you know that you're not pronouncing Drambuie correctly. It's possible it has a different pronunciation in Scotland where I live, but here we pronounce it Drambuie,-y, not dram-boo-y. I'm not in the habit of correcting pronunciation, but as you're both brilliant journalists, so I haven't got to the end of it. Let me just say it again, just in case you missed it. But as you're both brilliant journalists, I thought you might like to know as the sponsorship runs every night. Well, I'll take any corrections very, very happily. I mean, I have to confess, I just not said the word very often before. I refuse to believe that, Fee. Also, we've had a very stern email saying

that we were wrong to mock slimline tonic because a lot of people with diabetes have slimline tonic and thoroughly enjoy it. So we absolutely take that back. Well, no, I mean, that's, that's absolutely... It was me anyway. That's, that's lovely. Well, no, I think I was deriding the, the, the gin and the, and the diet tonic. But, but if you, if you like it, that's great. But I just didn't like it, Jane. No, I think, and you're in, can I just say you've never been more entitled to your opinion. Thank you. That's very kind. All the best says **** who does appear to be called ****. So that's quite handy isn't it? So your sign-off

could be all the Garvey's. Oh god, Jane. You wouldn't want too many of those. Oh, please keep it anonymous. I'm sorry. Can you do a massive amount of retrospective beeping? Sorry about that. Good luck with that, Eve. Eve will have just done a fantastic job on my cock up. I'm sorry about that. So an anonymous emailer sends this. It's about the school that their son attends. He started in September and before he started the teacher spent three days going around the houses of the children in her class to see them in a safe space. To be honest it isn't

something I'd ever heard of before and I went to school first in the late 80s. It seems to have worked and my son loves his teacher and always asks about her coming back again here for tea one day. To enable this there was something else I'd never heard of in terms of when your child actually began school. In most instances we hear about kids starting on half days then building up but in this school the children start on full days from day one but every child has a different day one. They start the class with pupils who went to the nursery there, i.e. familiar with the environment and then build it up with two or three

new children every day so it's not as overwhelming and the new ones each day get a nice focus on them. It sounds odd but it seems to work. Our son was one of the last in the class but seems to be flourishing and coming home happy every day as well as the usual bumps and tantrums in between. Well how fantastic and do you know what it's it's so thoughtful isn't it to make that transition into primary school which is such a massive thing I, it's so thoughtful, isn't it, to make that transition into primary school, which is such a massive thing. I think it's one of the massive, massive steps in your life that transition to primary school, then secondary school, and then either leaving

into a job or to university. There are things that if you don't get it right, you don't automatically know that you've not got it right, but it can really, really fester as a little thing. So to be so thoughtful about that because that must take a lot of work and not least on behalf of the parents who are waiting for that first day of school to arrive but what a fantastic idea just to build it up layer on layer on there so that you don't have kids who are completely bewildered by the sudden, I'm in a classroom, you know, with 30 other kids and especially if you are pandemic toddlers, you might not have had that experience at all.

I just think that's fantastic. It's more evidence, isn't it, that the world is, for all its faults, is often a bit kinder these days. Oh very much so. People have thought it through, do you? We weren't given any of this consideration. No, but don't start festering that one. And we had that bottle of... Progress is good. Funny bottle of milk.

We did have the tiny warm bottle of milk. Warm milk. I know it's going to annoy people, but I just want to say thanks to Margaret Thatcher, because I wanted that milk out of my life, and she took it away. That's a very, very... If you're listening abroad,

that is such a controversial thing that James just said. I'm just gonna leave it there and Derek if you're listening I'm gonna leave that one to you. Yeah. Over to Derek. But it was because it had gone warm that was the thing and it was the key, the bottles were cute weren't they, the little jitzy little bottles. They were very sweet and sometimes you see them people have done very clever fanciful things in a shabby chic way with those tiny milk bottles but all hell would break loose now because you'd have to have oat milk

almond milk, alpaca milk, no milk at all. The balloon phobic would have to be considered. There'd be someone who couldn't use a straw. It'll never come back. I was so much wrong about the 70s. Oh, right. I don't know how we've got here at all. Sally is a listener in South Africa, in Mosul Bay. I've been there. Now that is a beautiful place. Sally, we're still getting lots of emails about Errol Musk. And this is interesting.

I forwarded the gobsmacking Errol Musk interview to a friend and was startled to learn that she had once worked for the man. I thought you might be interested in her reply. Now I can't read all of it but here's what I can read. While I was studying at Pretoria Tech I worked as a waitress in his restaurant Yellow Rose. You know how sometimes you just get a vibe about somebody? I couldn't put my finger on it, but he had bad juju. I detested him. He was sexist, racist, the kind of person who asks you a question and then walks away while you're answering. His favourite saying was, I hear you, which actually meant he heard nothing. Young Elon would come to the restaurant sometimes after school.

He never greeted, just plonked himself down in a booth and played video games. Right, he knew, this is Errol, he knew nothing about the restaurant business, but of course he knew everything, which meant it went bust after about a year. He was a dreadful, dreadful man. Right, well that's just the view of one individual and we don't know their name because they are a friend of Sally in Mosel Bay. But, what can I say, it doesn't entirely surprise me. So I might be prepared to believe what that email says

and I haven't read it all out either. Yeah. This one comes in about chin gyms. Don't worry everybody, we are turning a corner away from all of that. Hello Fee and Jane, apologies for the brevity and slap-nature of this email. Like many of your listeners, I've got you on whilst I do 73 other things. And Ellie is currently chucking Bollinet's ingredients into the pan in between meetings. And her glasses are in the other room.

Anyway, it's the face bra that has me writing in. She says, when we were kids, I'm 49, the Sunday papers often arrived with a catalogue called something like innovations. Oh, well, it was you're absolutely right. It was the innovations catalogue. It was some very, very, very thin paper. I'm going to say cheap. You always felt that they could innovate that. My dad called it knickknacks for dickheads, which is an alternative title that would have caught on, Ellie. I loved pouring over it and for a while desperately wanted the slippers with torches on the front. Oh gosh, that's a good idea. No seriously, that's handy. Is that for those middle of the night loo trips?

It would be. Slip those on and fire up the little light. Yeah, it would be very good. Good to go. However, it was the chin gym that really befuddled my eight-year-old mind. It looked like a medieval torture instrument that one strapped to one's head. Did people actually buy and use these? I'm sure Melanie's design for her face brow would be entirely different. Ellie leaves us by saying, right, next zoom in four minutes and I've got to get the ball on the go more soon. I bloomin' love the podcast. Thank you. P.S. For the first time in my life I've put two spaces between the full stops and the following capitals so as not to upset Fee. I have to confess I didn't

know it was a thing until you mentioned it. Well can I say Ellie, your email looks better because of it. It looks absolutely beautiful. Can I just have a look? You've done the right thing. Look, it's so nicely spaced. Oh, it's beautifully clear. It really is. It's a really good effort. But I tell you what, I know it's quite an easy mind to mine, but any more things from the Knick Knacks for Dickheads catalogue that anyone actually bought or received as a gift, I think, as we head in towards Christmas, it would be nice to hear a little bit more about that. Well, we did have an email from a chap actually, a chap, asking whether the hive mind of the

podcast audience could decide whether or not it's mean to stop buying your adult children Christmas presents, but to focus instead on gifts for grandchildren. And I actually don't think that's been at all. I think we've all, I mean certainly I have got the stage where I just don't need, I genuinely don't need anything. Just don't. So why should older people, not necessarily all poor, but some of them might be a bit sort of straightened financially, what's wrong with just focusing on the grandchildren and not buying your adult kids presents? You don't need to do it surely. I would agree, gosh. It's not even a debate is it? It's just... Or do you know what, so we've referred to this before a little bit in other situations haven't we about actually giving people something really practical. So instead of turning up if somebody's coming around for a meal at

your house, you know with a bottle of wine that's horrible, that somebody gave to you about six months beforehand or whatever, or flowers that are going to die, you know, brings something nice, something useful. Like a foot muff. Well, you know, some Gaviscon, some paracetamol. I always run out of J-cloths, I never have enough scrubbers. It would be very useful. Scrub. You know, a gift like that. So I'd say if it goes against the grain to not give anything

at all because you feel that that's not in the spirit of things, then why not just do something unbelievably practical? Butter is so expensive these days Jane. A bottle of olive oil. Just a great big Le Pack. God blimey. Well you're not wrong because that would be five quid. Easily. Yeah, more. So a bottle of olive oil, eight.

Yeah. So, yeah, what's wrong with that as a Christmas gift? Yep, I think let's get very, very, very practical. Yeah. You've just reminded me, I did read a very nerve-wracking article about a new and very virulent norovirus. Oh don't. Well, several people have already fallen foul of it.

And it made the point this article that liquid soap doesn't do the business, so it's no good hand washing. You've got to use bars of soap. Apparently that offers you the most protection. Bars of soap? Old fashioned soap is better than liquid soap for making sure that you're less likely, I mean it's no guarantee, you're less likely to fall foul of the norovirus. But wouldn't it be better to use a liquid soap that has an antibacterial in it?

I'm not sure, apparently whatever this is doing the rounds at the moment, it doesn't take any notice of those liquid soaps. Right. Have you ever had the norovirus vaccine? No. There is one available, isn't there? Is there? Yeah. By the way, as I think I've just illustrated, I'm neither a chemist nor a doctor.

So if you... That doesn't preclude you from joining President Trump's staff. Oh no, I'm going to run. Yes, absolutely. Please don't. We had a Trump-free edition just until then. Oh, okay. Okay.

We're going to try very hard. But I am interested in what to... Because hand washing, can we just own the fact that before the pandemic, I did not wash my hands nearly often enough. You probably didn't wash them in the right way ever. I don't think I would come in from the shops and just go straight to the fridge and have a slice of cheese. I don't do that anymore.

When I come in from the outside world, I do wash my hands before I do anything else. But that is a completely changed pattern of behaviour since the pandemic. And do you think genuinely that has made a difference to how well you've been? Have you caught fewer bugs? I don't, yeah possibly, but I'm just ashamed of how I just didn't think it was a necessity. I mean I don't think any of us properly thought much about hand washing before all that. I still wish people were wearing masks on public transport. Well there was a guy who was at the tube station this morning, he was just spitting everywhere

because he obviously had quite a bad chest infection or was getting over one and so there was just this horrible guttural, is that the right word? What's the right word? Sputum sound, you know, followed by these lumps of sputum and I just thought I don't want to be here. I don't want to go on the tube with you. I don't want to be standing down wind from you. I don't like what you've just done and I thought yeah I'm going back to be here. I don't want to go on the tube with you. I don't want to be standing down wind from you. I don't like what you've just done. And I thought, yeah, I'm going back into a mask. This show, this edition will not be called Lumps of Sputum. Please Eve, don't call it that. Fee was, I think, who got fed up, and I don't blame her, with the number of TV travelogues featuring chaps of a certain age going all over the place and being hilarious and bantry. Helen in Bristol says on the theme of male celebrities travel shows I found this article

in today's in my mother's, she's very keen to distance herself, in my mother's Daily Mail. Once again you talk up the cry before others latched on. Keep up the good work in solidarity Helen is in Bristol and you're quite right Helen. Your mum's Daily Mail does reveal they've done, looks like page five or seven are a big big page devoted to the sheer number of male romance travel shows on the telly these days. Yeah and it's great that men are talking more to each other, it's wonderful, you know, they're finding a vehicle for man chat and all of that and it's lovely, absolutely lovely to see their moves but it shouldn't preclude.

They do all get their kit off a lot more I think than women would if they were doing travelogues. Yep. So the last one that I grazed across, they were, it was, I got the name, sorry, the first time around, I won't even try and do it. I think it's a Patti McInnes thing, isn't it? They were doing something with mud and hugging a lot. And I genuinely mean it. I think it's fantastic, mental health isn't something that I would deride at all. But we could have some ladies popping out there,

you know, going for some nice little spa treatments and having a bit of a think about it afterwards. I could do that, Jane. Would be all right? Yes. Well, they know where we are. They obviously don't. No. Or as they do, and they've simply chosen not to make contact. And they're going to leave us here. That's what they're doing. I think the Daily Mail sometimes does listen to this podcast as well because things crop up don't they. So, servers and emissions, we're all fine by the way. There's a special, there's a voice, you would have had this voice too, if ever somebody from the Daily Mail manages to get your phone number and phones you, there is a voice isn't there where they say I'm

so and so from the Daily Mail. You automatically says I'm absolutely fine, everything in my world is fine, no it's absolutely great, marvellous, have a lovely day, goodbye. I wrote to be fair, to be fair, I don't know why I'm still fair, why am I fair? No other bugger in the world is fair, but to be fair. I did once answer the landline at home and it was the Daily Mail, just one thing Jane, did you get the house? Did you get to keep the house? Well have a good evening.

It's a strange way to look and we're journalists and can I honestly say I've never read the newspaper and enjoyed other people's misfortunes. No you couldn't. No I couldn't. I couldn't. So because I don't, at least I'm honest in that respect, but there is just, it's just a funny way to make a living. It just is.

Yeah. I mean, I've done reports, I've done what you might loosely call journalism. I wouldn't ever want to ring somebody up to ask them that. Or to go to their house. Or to go to their house. And that only happened to me just once, because, just once because it wasn't a big enough hill for anyone to give her flying monkeys about. But it was so embarrassing, Jane, because there was a reporter outside my house, and she started asking me some questions on the way in and I marched up with my very, very best.

I'm marching up to my own front door and my privacy is seconds away. And the person I was sharing my house with at the time had double locked the front door and I couldn't get in. With my high dutchman very clearly on display. I had to walk back down the street. Some of your dignity be slightly lost there. But anyway, can we just... Right, this is a story that you were talking about data centers last week and have you seen this? This is astonishing isn't it? It's brilliant, yeah, go for it.

Well no, it's actually, I can't find the email, have you got the email? I wanted to find it but I just can't see it, I'm sorry I've got such a stupid filing system here on the desk, but this is someone who's very kindly sent us a link. Sorry, sorry. System? You say? I consider it a system. Interesting. I consider it a system. Would you like to read the email? Oh, so the email comes from Angela.

Thank you, Angela. And it says, there was a very encouraging story on the news last year about a new development where swimming pools can be heated from the heat caused by a server, while the pool cools the server down. This is a really encouraging thing, don't you think? We must use the same energy more than once. Well, it's a brilliant idea. Tell us more, tech correspondent Jane Garvey. Well, this is from the BBC's news website. It's the 14th of March 2023, if you want to go back there. And the headline is tiny data center used to heat public swimming pool so that's brilliant. The heat generated by a washing machine size data center is enough to heat

a public swimming pool in Devon. A washing machine size? Yeah so that's tiny. A titch. Yeah. The computers inside the white box are surrounded by oil to capture the heat, enough to heat the pool to about 30 Celsius, 60 percent of the time. This is saving Exmouth Leisure Centre thousands of pounds. It's a brilliant idea. I hope it's still going. Really, really brilliant. And 30, that is a roasty, toasty, warm bath.

If anything, it's slightly too perky, isn't it? It is, yeah. It's a bit of a hot tub. It's a bit hot tub. It's a bit of a hot tub. I don't know why. Whenever I see the words tub and hot next door to each other I feel a little bit squeamish. No, I'm absolutely with you. We went on a holiday once in France, it wouldn't have mattered where it was, and the Gite place had a hot tub but there was a very large sign by the hot tub excuse me saying please don't have sex in the hot tub which automatically

means that you just thought well someone has had sex in the hot tub in order you put up signs saying don't have sex in the hot tub so nobody wanted to go in the hot tub. Well of course not. She said briskly. Well of course not. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now Jane, there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest, we get quite a lot of those in the UK, don't we? I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of

art, if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul. Yeah, you're on to something there because scientific research suggests that regularly looking at art could help you live longer, plus lots of other well-known benefits to boost your wellbeing and help reduce stress. So why not get a National Art Pass? It gives you free and half price entry at hundreds of museums and galleries and only costs £59.25 for an individual pass. And there's a reduced price for under 30s

and you can also purchase plus one and plus kids add-ons. Free or half price entry and a chance of living longer, I am sold. The National Art Pass. See more, live more. Get your pass at artfund.org forward slash off air. wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News. Hello, I'm Holly Meade and with me is Lucy Andrews and we are both from the Money Team at the Times and Sunday Times. And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively

about money and personal finance. Each week we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt, saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish. Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyds Readymade Investments. Before we get on to our guest today, just a quick shout out to someone who wants to be anonymous but says, I wanted to say thank you for your almost daily witterings and chatter. And this is just to say we've read the email, I can appreciate you're having a really, really tough time. And she just goes on to say, I read the email. I can appreciate you're having a really, really tough time. And she just goes on to say,

I listen to you on dog walks whilst doing family admin in the car after various medical appointments and at home generally when I'm feeling a bit lost. Well, to that individual, thank you for bothering to contact us to let us know that we are in some small way helping. And I hope you carry on listening and we can carry on bringing you some sort of tiny degree of comfort because you've obviously got, I mean you outline in the email exactly what you're going through but I do think a lot of people, and this is going to annoy Pamela, a lot of us post the American election

and I don't make any apology for this, I think we are feeling a bit ragged and a bit wobbly and I think it's okay to say so, isn't it? I think it's very okay to say so and we're in a very strange holding pattern at the moment. So last week with the results we were inside that bubble in the spirit level, weren't we, where everything was, you felt kind of okay, right? I'm in between these two places and people were very keen and rightly so to talk about how the democratic process has prevailed. But we know that there's going to be some very strange times coming up and we've still got quite a way to go until they happen and that's quite weird, isn't it?

We don't have such a long run-up to the handover of power in this country. No, it's all literally done overnight. That feeling that neither one person nor the other is in charge at the moment but both those people are so very, very different to each other, I'm feeling a little bit uncomfortable just with that and as we've often pointed out and some of our listeners have pointed out too, you know we're not even in the country who are most affected by it. Pam is there and she sent this very long email she's the bagel seasoning lady, love your seasoning by the way. We love this Pam, thank you so much. This isn't Pamela, this is Pam. This is Pam from South Boston, South of Boston.

She's a poll worker in her town. She's been working elections in various capacities since 2016. That's P-O-double-L by the way. Yes, that's right. Yes. And she's a registered Democrat since she turned 18. But she's just sent us a quick timeline of her day and her thoughts on November the 6th and 7th.

And there's a lot of detail here, and I can't read all of it, but basically she takes us through what it was like to be working on the election. Some of the good stuff, people coming in wearing MAGA hats and being asked to remove them, because you're not allowed to wear anything like that at a polling station, and quite happily, agreeably, just removing it. Another guy with a MAGA hat asked to remove his hat, was asked to remove his hat, he's here with his wife and four children, three girls and a boy in tow. He starts arguing about it, luckily the deputy town

clerk is right there and he asks for the statute required to take off his hat. He's still arguing, eventually he does take it off and he heads into the gym. So you've got three daughters due dude, I think to myself, and you're really voting for that guy? At 3.30 in the afternoon, a woman wants to show me her driver's licence but can't find it in her purse. She panics. I say, it's all right, you don't need an ID to vote in Massachusetts. She starts complaining about that and says there should be a rule.

I think, well, if there was was you couldn't vote until you find your damn license. You can tell here that Pam was really put through it during the course of this day but what really intrigues me is that between 12.10 at night and four in the morning she listens to the second half of the BBC radio version of South Riding which is a novel I looked it up I knew I knew it but it's a novel by a woman called Winifred Holtby it's quite old it's read on audible by Sarah Lancashire and she has such a soothing voice. So I think a lot of people will recognise South Riding because I think Winifred Holtby was a great friend of Vera Britton and the two of them, he's telling me to wind up but I've got information to impart, the two of them were great friends and both of

course wrote brilliant books. Right, that's it, I've stopped. Thank you Pam. Here's the guest. Yes, thank you Pam. Adrian Dunbar is what we might have called back in the day the housewife's choice, a hugely talented actor who's also capable of giving a little nod to humour in the characters he brings to life on the small screen, particularly Ted Hastings, superintendent in charge of bringing bent coppers to heel in Jeb Mercurio's mind-bogglingly successful Line of Duty TV series. You might remember Hastings' fabulous catch phrases, Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey was one of them, Now we're sucking diesel was another. And now we can catch Adrian in Kiss Me Kate,

originally staged at the Barbican, that's getting a lot of mentions today. There is now a cinema release of the show available. We started by talking about the fact that the musical Kiss Me Kate music and lyrics by Cole Porter is actually a show within a show combining Shakespeare with jazz hands and the world is a better place for it. It is a show within a show it's a bit of a noise is off and so far that you see backstage and on the front what's happening in front of the stage so there's a company of actor I run a theatre company that's decided put on a musical version of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew and to make sure that we can get to Broadway,

I've decided to get a big Broadway star in who's called Lily Vanessi, who's my ex-wife. Which sounds like it's gonna be all right, but of course, you know, bringing back your ex is always gonna be a bit of a problem, especially if you've got your eye on someone else in the cast. So the friction that you see happening backstage

starts to bleed onstage. So that leads to a lot of fun, as you can well imagine. So you've got two things going on at the one time. And yeah, that's where the humor comes from. And you do look like you are having the absolute time of your life because apart from anything else, when there's a show within a show, it always seems to be from the audience's point of view that you're allowed to kind of let rip a bit with the kind of bonding between those two things.

You can be quite knowing, can't you? Yeah, you can. You can be quite knowing about what's going on and so forth. And the audience do like to, you know, to get a bit collusive with you. But to keep the show rolling and, you know, you've got to play the pressure you're under very straight. I mean, that's where the humor comes from. You know, taking it seriously is where the fun begins. And so, yeah, but we have a really good connection with the audience. And but, you know, that's not to say that, you know, when you watch it on the screen, I just saw it yesterday, that you don't get carried away with it as well.

It's just it's just such a joyful, joyful show that you just get involved, whether it's on the stage or on the screen, I think. You've been described as a revelation in Raspberry Saturn, and you also look pretty good, if I may say so, and I'm not trying to be flirtatious here at all, Adrian, in doublet and hose. Now, the wardrobe choices, do you have any say in that? Are you delighted by them? Yeah, no, I mean, fabulous costume, wonderful, wonderful costumes, and because

you've got the kind of American 1940s gear, and then you've got the kind of Shakespearean stuff, and yet fabulous, doublet and holes, massive, wonderful, wonderful boots, I think, if you remember. And when I was getting fitted with the boots, our American costume lady, I said to her, these are amazing boots. She said, yes, I got them made for Christopher Walken when he played Captain Hook. And I said, yeah, okay. So these boots were made for Walken, were they? And she said, yeah, they were, you know, which got a bit of a laugh. But said, yeah, they were, you know, which got a bit of a laugh. But so it's a very good joke. Yeah. And your, your mum loved a musical, didn't she? Did, did you as you were growing up? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I watched all that Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers stuff. I just was

obsessed with Fred Astaire. I thought he was amazing. And, and of course, the songs were fantastic. They were so clever. The arrangements were so amazing. So I watched all of that when I was a kid and kind of drank it all in, soaked it all up. But I didn't get a chance to do a musical really. I was always interested in music. I was in bands when I was a kid and I kind of, you know, I put a band together later on in my career. And then in the show that I do called Ridley, which we shoot up in Manchester, we I decided that there's going to be a kind of jazz club element to that. And the fact that I get up and do a song during that. And that's kind of alerted people to the fact that I sing.

But but no, I've not really a chance to do a musical. And here we are you know a huge box ticked as it were and such a fabulous I'm really really proud of the show. So the band that you formed when you were younger is that Breeze? Yes. What kind of music was Breeze? Well, look, in Ireland in 60s and 70s, country music was the big thing, still is. And we would play a lot of country music. We'd play Merle Haggard, Hank Snow, John Cash, Chris Christopherson, you know, George Jones, Tommy Wynette, you know, all these were the kind of songs that we were doing. And everybody thought we were kind of hick country people.

And then, you know, 30 years later, everybody's going on about, you know, how wonderful Johnny Cash is and Chris Christopherson and the Carter family and all that. They can see the worth of really good country music. So that's when I started off playing. I started playing, you know, three chords in the truth. And, you know, it really was a good grounding for going into other things. Then I did, got involved in the Elvis Presley Cabaret Act. We actually we played in Wales a couple of times which was lovely. We played in England, we played in America, we went to America in the 70s and did all that and so yeah so music's always been there you know. Music's always been there. And so if we gave you a microphone now and don't worry I'm not going to

ask you to sing but what type of tune do you have in your head? Is it something that is a little bit more kind of balladeer, maybe in a bit more of a minor key than Kiss Me Kate? Because Kiss Me Kate is absolutely jazz hands-a-go-go, isn't it? It's the perfect cadence, it's the rousing chorus, it's a joyful kind of musical style, isn't it? Yes, it is. I mean, you know, Two Darn Hots, another opening, another show, Wonderbar, you know, Always True to You in My Fashion. These are fabulous songs. And the people remember, people sometimes don't remember what's in Kiss Me Kid until they start to watch it

and they go, oh, so that's where that song comes from. Wonderbar and all that, you know, so yeah. I mean, if I was singing things, it all depends, you know, where the audience is. I love Irish traditional songs, but I love the great American song book as well. And songs from the seventies. I mean, I love people like Jimmy Webb

and people like that, you know. Willie Nelson's a great singer and the sort of stuff that he does kind of trying between a sort of country jazz vibe you know but I love folk with James Taylor I love I love all kinds of really good music and especially music from the 60s and 70s. I feel a Christmas album coming out anytime soon surely that's been punting to you. We'll have to put our heads together and see if we can do it like that. Would there ever be Hastings the musical and if there was what would the plot be? Hastings the musical yeah that's pretty interesting. Well I don't know there'd be a big song called Bent Coppers though wouldn't there?

It would. And then there'd be a tap routine between Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey, that would have to happen. Yeah, this is all good. This is music to the line of duty fans ears. Yeah, yeah, and then there'd be something called cooking on gas, that would be good. And yes, I can imagine, you know, a big song called I Didn't Come Up The Laggan on a Bubble, that would be a good one.

And yeah, actually, you know, you're writing it as we speak. It would be brilliant. Looking back on how Line of Duty has changed your life, how would you describe that to us? Well I describe it I suppose like this, you know as someone who is obsessed with British television since I was a kid, and I'm pretty encyclopedic actually from anything from about 1963 onwards, 64, to end up creating what is not an iconic character on British television and also within an iconic TV show would have been a huge ambition of mine. And so to do it is a very humbling and very satisfying experience. And so that's how I'd kind of describe it. It's been, it's something that kind of, when you think about it, keeps you warm. It's very, very nice. And will there be more?

Yeah, hope so. Looks like it. All the signals and everything is kind of, you know, but as somebody said, until the script hits the desk, you know, you can't be 100% sure. So we're all hoping that someone somewhere will make an announcement and say, yes, it's happening. And we can all take it from there. I can tell you one thing that was Martin always says, the day they do announce it, it's gonna burn up the internet. It will, yeah. I know that you do get recognized, obviously,

an awful lot more now because of the iconic status of line of duty, but it's such an interesting detail, Adrienne, that you felt that you couldn't do jury service because actually that might be confusing in the courtroom because people identify you so much as a copper and that's quite a telling overlap of your real life and your work life. Yeah, no, the thing I was really worried about is that fact that people might kind of look

to me as somebody who might know a little bit more about what we're talking about. And rather than not just seeing me as another punter within the thing, but also it'd be distracting, wouldn't it? I mean, you know, it would be distracting, I think, from what, you know, the seriousness of what actually would be happening in the room. I just thought it might be, I mean,

I may yet have to do jury service. I mean, they haven't, you know, I haven't got beyond that. I will be asked again, no doubt. And, you know, I'll have to explain. I'll have to explain that. I mean, you know, I mean, the girl that I talked to, who kind of put my jury service to one side, hadn't really watched Line of Duty. So I don't think she would understand what I was talking about really. So but we'll have to wait and see. Yeah but it's a really interesting thing to consider what level of fame or what type of fame might preclude you from being a distraction. type of fame might preclude you from being a distraction. I've also read, Adrian, that you are kind of grateful that immense fame has come your way, not in the first flush of youth. And it's so true, isn't it, that I think if you have achieved a bit in your

life before proper can't go anywhere in public fame reaches you, you stand yourself in such better stead don't you? Yeah I think I've been very lucky in that respect there's been a lot of people who you know I think personally that you know this type of attention and you know wouldn't maybe not have sat that easily with me in my 20s. I may not have been able to deal with it. And so I'm very grateful that after I've been slogging away for years and years and years that this has happened. And, you know, a lot of the actors who I kind of look up to and respect, the same thing has happened to them. So I think I'm in reasonably good company.

And what would your advice be to younger actors who have that absolute thirst for success and to be good at their jobs and find that actually what that brings them in terms of their fame is quite difficult? Well, I would say it's better to have to deal with it than not for a start. It's better to have to deal with the idea that you're famous and that you're popular and that people want to work with you than not. So therefore it's something that we all aspire to. And first of all, you've got to want that

and for it to happen. So, let's not be disingenuous about it. You've got to want to get to a place for it to happen. But it's how you deal with it when you get there is the thing. And to have a few years under your belt where you've been watching how it happens and how to deal with it really really helps. So my advice to them would be is to just, you know, not only again think about how you might deal with it, you know, how you know what the prerequisites are for you to kind of navigate your way through success. Because it's not easy. And it's not, you know, you have to decide how you're going to deal with the public, you know, because

that's part of what, you know, part of what you signed up for in a way, you have to know that the, you know, the public have a relationship with you now, and you're going to have to deal with it in somewhere that kind of you know it makes you happy and makes them happy and so yeah there's a lot to think about in that respect that's I'll just give them you know tell them to think about it in those terms that a yes it's somewhere you want to be but on the other hand it's somewhere that brings its own responsibility and you'll have to deal with that. Adrienne Dunbar, a couple of musicals I've really enjoyed, I love Blood Brothers but I'm not someone who'd go routinely to musicals. Me neither. But there's no business like show business.

I want to be in a musical, everything's great in a musical, nobody does in a musical, everything's great in a musical. Eve's just reminding us that we're actually at a place of work and we have No one does in a musical, everything's great in a musical. Eve's just reminding us that we're actually at a place of work and we have to get on. Oh, okay. She's so mean. I've got another verse and it's far ruder. Okay, well look, that's Adrian Dunbar.

We've got loads more to come this week. We've got Jo Malone. We've got Larry Lamb, haven't we? I tell you what, Housewives favourite all round. Premalot! Well, that wasn't him. But that's his wife. Yeah. In the show.

Thank you. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4pm on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. The flu remains a serious disease.

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