Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Lessons from an older less-experienced woman (with The Hairy Bikers)

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Jane G is a bit tongue tied by Jane M is here to support her. They cover having to work before lunch, middle-age men's hobbies and there's more sexuality chat. Plus, they're joined by Si King and Dave Myers, a.k.a. the Hairy Bikers. They discuss their new book 'Ultimate Comfort Food'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Do you know what, J. Malkerans? I actually feel like I've worked today. Do you ever get those days? Once or twice a month, yeah. I think this is my annual, ooh, I've really worked today, day. What was the heavy lifting today? Heavy lifting, well, oh, well, I had to come in early to do something. Then I had to do something else.

What, before lunchtime? Listen, you're only here because fees on half term. Probably never again, no. That really stung. We'll get someone else in for tomorrow. Yes, I did come in before lunch. I had lunch at my desk. It's my favourite baguette at the moment.

We all have phases. What's the favourite baguette at the moment? Oh, the ham and, is it greve cheese? Oh, the one from the Pratt? Yeah, it's a white baguette. I think it's full of goodness. Oh, definitely. Nice amount of mustard.

What? Our guest today, actually my guests, because J. Mark Herons wasn't allowed in the room, are the Hairy Bikers, Psy King and Dave Myers. And I think people will really enjoy hearing from them because they are those sort of avuncular chaps who glide around the world on their bikes talking food. And you want to think that they are as nice as they seem.

And having spent 25 minutes with them this afternoon, they genuinely did seem really nice. And, importantly, they are properly, they are mates. They really love each other, don't they? Yeah, they do. And actually, I thought that was rather nice. Yeah, we interviewed them for the Times Mag last year, or earlier this year.

Yeah. And Andrew Billen was so touched by their genuine rapport. And, you know, one of them's been very ill. Dave. Dave. And Si was genuinely beside himself. We talk about that in the interview. I look forward to it.

No, I think, I keep saying we. The royal we? It is the royal we. This is this Irish royalty thing seeping through my veins. I just can't stop it. It just keeps coming out. Did you wear a crown for it? I did. I always keep my crown on. When Fee's not here, I get my crown on.

Shall we just go straight in? A shamrock crown. Can we just go straight into the emails on sexuality? Yes. We've got lots. We have got a lot. And here's one. Let's just start with Susan, who says, I just don't accept your assumption that we could all swing both ways if we gave it a chance

I mean, that wasn't quite what we said, was it? I suppose perhaps it was, perhaps it was let me just read out her email, I'm 66 she says I've been heterosexual all my life I like women and unfortunately have found that I appear to attract lesbian attention

despite not being gay. In my 20s, a very good friend who was bisexual fell in love with me and I gave it a try in order to oblige her. But I couldn't summon a scintilla of enthusiasm. Excellent use of scintilla. I think so. I'm perfectly happy, she says, with the anatomy of females, but I don't find them sexually attractive right okay in particular because of the way they smell which has always played a key role in sexual attraction for me would you say to all homosexual men that they could easily sleep with women if they were more open to the possibility I think not that's quite a good point. At the risk of making myself out to be... Go on, inflame everyone.

...more of, you know, a very social person that you think I am. I'm not saying anything. I'm just going to say I have had flings with men who identify as gay. There we are. That's who you told, Susan. I mean, each person is different. I do have some gay male friends who I think don't find women in any way sexually attractive. But I also know some gay men who do find themselves fancying women.

Because at the end of the day, Jane, it's people. It's people. Can we go in? There are so many good emails on this subject. I really want to say thank you to everyone who's written in about it, actually, because there is a plethora of opinion and experience here which is i mean which is absolutely apt because i think everybody does feel differently um i would like to start with this email who says um it's from any actually this is a double topic email so So this is from a correspondent in Sydney who starts off talking about jet lag

and says he agrees with me, it is possible to manage the flight to Australia if you can manage it the right way. And he has some boring tips at the end, he says, which I don't find boring. It's about getting on to local time and sleeping at the right times. I find that boring.

Okay, so anyway. I don't travel. You don't travel, you're not going to Australia. But he wants to say, on to dating women. This is a male correspondent, by the way. My wife and I separated two years ago after nearly 30 years together and she has opened up her dating horizons recently to include other women. She's met two and they didn't quite work out, but her attitude is, why not?

She's in her late 50s and I think it's great that she still has a sense of adventure. We have a great relationship still, but not enough for her to tell me that some of these women might give her what she needs that I didn't which I am guessing is part of it. This is a really interesting bit from a male correspondent. I think men might just get more and more disappointing as we get older. I'm certainly bored by all my male company in my own peer group. Men just seem to give up or like really boring things. He says, I also think Jane G's point about women talking more and having more intimacy from talking is material. And it's the obvious that another woman might know your body pretty well to ensure you have a great sexual experience.

Would I date another man? I don't think so. I can't see a romantic relationship with another man in my future, but sex? Possibly. Had experience in my youth and men are definitely good if you're looking for no-strings-attached sex. That is something most men can do very easily. In brackets he says, see what you've done now? Middle England is grabbing for its pearls. Sexuality is fluid, says our correspondent, as is attraction. And life is about experiences. Never say never. Well, I mean, just to go back to your point, thank you to everybody who's really thought about this

and actually been incredibly open. Really open. It's brilliant. Yeah, it's fascinating. This is from M. I've listened with interest to the experiences related over the last couple of days. I do agree with the concept of a spectrum and have no doubt that people can be at many different points along it. However, I disagree with Jane Gee's comment

that there can't be anyone who is truly 100% anything. I would think of myself as 100% heterosexual. It's not a boast and it's not anything I've ever said out loud, partly because it's not a conversation that's come up and partly because I'd be wary of sounding like I was saying that heterosexuality is, quotes, right, and like I was trying to cast any aspersions on homosexuality. But it's simply the case I've never felt any attraction to men,

and I just can't imagine that ever changing. For some context, I am in no way a manly man. Actually, I'm quite a sensitive introvert, and I abhor hyper-masculinity. I'm quite a sensitive introvert and I abhor hyper masculinity. I'm just a very boringly conventional 40 year old married heterosexual. Is there a gender divide here? He says, I can't speak in any way for all men. And it's not a subject I think most men would spend much time discussing. Well, ain't that the truth? Because can you imagine six blokes are sitting around a table in a pub and they start talking about they're all married say or in long-term relationships

with women with a man yeah i can't imagine alistair and rory discussing it on their podcast can you they haven't so far but the night is young night is young um i'd like to read this one out again it you know they're all just wildly divergent, which I really love. It's another anonymous one. Dear Jane and Jane, fascinating hearing your ponderings this week, as I recently started to allow, in inverted commas, myself to step into the world of online dating in the section called Women Looking for Women. I say allow, as I too have only had relationships with men, but at the age of of 55 feel it's a side of me that's been oppressed. The interesting thing is that there are dozens of women's profiles just

like mine. Women who have teenage children or young adults moving away from the nest. I know if I don't explore this side of me now and I'm being totally honest with everyone it is an exploration not a one-way ticket. I will regret it for the rest of my life. I am terrified and excited in equal measure, but trying hard to just shake off my own and my generation's self-inflicted chains. I honestly believe every human being has the freedom to make a choice and there is only, at the end of the day, one way to find out if this new path is for me.

Please wish me luck. Well, I absolutely do. Good luck. I just think that's really interesting that she's finding many many women in the same position and I do wonder are we back to that biology thing yesterday yeah once you lose the biological imperative do you start thinking about what you might want emotionally rather than physically rather than reproductively is it that societal norms and values have shifted

so you're trying things that you might have felt judged about before? I think it's probably all of the above. I think, is there a grain of truth in our male correspondent's suggestion that men can, though not necessarily, get a little bit entrenched in Hobbyville? Golf. Well, I'm saying it. Golf model railways. Well, there are people, men, who do become, and they're very at home in these environments. And by the way, good luck to them because nothing wrong with a hobby. But it can be all consuming for them and might not always

leave time for a female partner. And actually women, often because of kids and work and other caring responsibilities, haven't had time to get too embroiled in a passion that's time-consuming. Yeah, how many women do you know who play golf? Well, I've had some lessons. Have you? Yes, indeed. Look at you with a hobby.

You see, I'm free to pursue, but I couldn't because I have to come in before lunch sometimes, Jane. I haven't been able to focus and I've got Pilates on a Friday. I can't believe this job holds you back from your golf. You'd be taking on Tiger Woods if it were only not for Times Radio. It's terrible, isn't it? Hello to Paula, who says, I just want to share the views of your listener yesterday

who's gay and hurt, and the hurt that can arise from women trying us out if dating women isn't working as much as i admire your initial listener who brought up this subject and i'm pleased she's found a real soul mate it can be soul destroying when you are the experiment yeah i'm sure i totally get this the amount of women who on a drunken night out have held my hand flirted or rubbed their hand or foot up my legs, sometimes in front of male partners, and put it down to being drunk or mucking about has been quite staggering and confusing. I grew up in the 80s and realised when my girl crushes in 82, when I was 16, were far outweighing my one boy crush that I was going to have a tough time ahead of me. There were no role models and it was a very scary place to realise you were different. I really can't imagine now at 57 going out with men because women can be exhausting. They are

still ultimately worth it. I would love a time when it doesn't matter, as Jane M mentioned, but I'm also quite mindful how important sexuality is and I'm very proud of who I am. Paula also makes the generous offer that if I ever want a ride on a lavender bus, I... I need to get this right.

Has it made you a little bit nervous? I'm very done. Saying that, if Jane Garvey ever wants a ride on a lavender bus, please let me take you wants a ride on a lavender bus, please let me take you for a spin. Well, thanks very much, Paula. Please carry on being the best thing on my evening walk, she says. Will I get my freedom pass next year?

You can make it to Paula's neck of the woods. Presumably the lavender bus will be free 24-7. I can't wait. No, very generous of you, Paula. Thank you. Can I just move on slightly from sexuality? Well, actually, it's related. Yeah, go on.

As you said, Gwade, yesterday, Nicola says she loved the discussion with Kat yesterday. Oh, yes. A highly intelligent woman, she says. What I wondered was, did Kat remind anyone else of Elizabeth Zott? Now, if you don't know who Elizabeth Zott is, she's a protagonist in Lessons in Chemistry. I don't know why, but I didn't like that. Do you know what? I got three quarters of the way through, Jane, and I put it down,

but that's because I lack commitment in most things. But it's now been made into a television show as well with Brie Larson, I think, which looks wonderful. And I have to say, I did like the character of Elizabeth Zott. It just went on a bit. Anyway, she said, I love scientists and their no-nonsense way of answering questions that the rest of us might approach with a hint of a giggle, which I agree with.

She was very straightforward in her talk about male breastfeeding. OK, yes, Cat Bohannon was really interesting. If we'd had more time, we probably could have done four or five hours of conversation with her about evolution and female anatomy. And it was just really riveting. Nicola, I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I'm going to go back to Lessons in Chemistry and try to enjoy it.

I only got about 30 pages in. Oh, yeah. You should try a bit more. Yeah. I know Fee from Insta, I noticed that she's really doing well with Boy Swallows Universe by Trent Dalton, which is our book club choice for this month. So that's made me realise that I've got to make more of an effort with that. Do you feel the pressure? I do feel the pressure.

I should say Dolly Alderton is on the programme next week. She has a new book out. I'm reading it now and this is very easy to read. And I mean that as a real compliment because who doesn't want to sink into bed at night and read a book like Dolly's new one, which is called Good Material. It's about a comedian. She's a great writer.

I just find her incredibly, well, companionable, is something I only ever pull out of my word locker when I really like something. And that's what Dolly is. Yeah, she's a wonderful writer. After all the smut of sexuality, let's talk dahlias. This is another Jane, but this one is in Walton-on-Thames. So I think we can all agree, Jane, that this is a really posh one.

Thank you for bothering to listen, honestly. It finally arrived today, the moment when I had to email you, when Jane Garvey was talking about the fact that she didn't know what a dahlia looked like prior to her visit to a National Trust property. We did let ourselves down a bit with that, didn't we? I'm sorry about that. Dahlias have been a part of my life, says this Jane,

since the day I was born. My dad grew and exhibited dahlias for nearly 70 years and my whole childhood was coloured by this flamboyant flower. There were allocated times throughout the year for planting, caning, mulching with straw and covering with plastic sheets, not to mention the endless battles with earwigs. September was show season and it was a sacred time.

My dad, accompanied by my long-suffering mother, you see what I mean about middle-aged elderly men and their hobbies, travelled the country in specially adapted vans and cars to stand in village halls and marquees with like-minded souls. His friends went further and developed new varieties, named after their children. So a shout-out to Lady Linda and Master Alan, if they're listening.

I grew up and the flowers' influence on my life waned. However, when I gave birth to my first son in September, mum and dad were at the Northern National Show in Harrogate. My father died four years ago. When my lovely mum joined him this year, it was time to sort out the family home. There were boxes of National Dahlia Society medals and annuals, trophies from assorted shows,

plus thousands of catalogue photos of every stage of the growing process. I have no doubts about my dad's love for us and dedication to his family. He thought the world of us, but if I was to pinpoint the true passion of his life, it would be the dahlia. Jane, that is absolutely lovely, and I'm sorry to hear about your mum and your dad. But what a wonderful thing. I mean, I'm not in any way demeaning hobbies. And either way, I'm a very regular buyer of flowers

because I just think flowers in a home just absolutely make it. Well, I think gardening and flowers are one of those hobbies that give other people joy as well. Exactly. I think that kind of, oh, me too, I'm useless. My dad's a great grower. It's embarrassing. I can't do it at all.

You must be ashamed of him. I can barely pick up my own slugs. It's terrible. I don't like slugs. Jane, thank you for that. Janeoffee at times.radio, if you've got something to add to our beautiful, you've got something there?

Yes, go on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One more. This is a complete left turn from Dahlia's. This is from Beth, who says, she's writing to tell us about her train journey home from Scotland and the joy of meeting perfect strangers. Very busy trains force people together, which in turn opens up conversations one would never ordinarily have, she says. You meet the most extraordinary people and have discussions on topics that just don't happen at home when organising the bin schedule and the latest supermarket shop. She tells the story about sitting next to a slightly older woman who was dashing back to relieve her sister for caring

for a 90-year-old mother. This woman was an anthropologist who'd lived all over the Middle East, including Beirut in the early 1970s, and had retrained as a psychotherapist and become a counsellor for those who'd been captured and tortured as a result of war and also become a prolific writer. Over the next five hours, that's five hours, that's a quick one from Scotland, as LNER took us from the King's Cross to Waverley, we covered the interpretation of early Christian writing,

her experience of counselling, her early life growing up in 1960s Glasgow, the meaning of prayer, the spread of individual light in a dark world and her love of the Rubeliat of Oma Kayam. I've probably butchered that, sorry. No, you've had a good go. When the journey ended, I felt so rewarded and enriched by the experience. I wondered what similar experiences you or your listeners may have had

in encountering complete yet somehow familiar strangers on a journey and now I love that email because I do think I certainly have met friends like genuinely made friends with people I've met on train journeys and plane journeys yeah and I think the more that the problem is I think that the tyranny of phones and modern technology means that people don't put them down and look up and have a conversation because you do meet the most fascinating people. And it's sort of that suspension of normal life when you're on a plane or a train and there's nothing to do, nowhere to go, but talk to this interesting person next to you. And I just think it is one of the luxuries of travel. It's one of the great gifts. It is. I do. I do meet people on the train backwards and forwards to Liverpool to see my parents and I got talking to a woman a couple of weeks ago who was visiting

her dad and there's a lot of us of my generation who are backwards and forwards to the north west of England and it is lovely to check in with them just to see how often they go, what impact it has on them the memories it brings back to them I think I agree with you, I think it's really

important and that is a lovely email. Thank you for that, Beth. That's lovely. Beth has also sent us a picture of a reunion with her friends. They're her army mates. Her army mates, yeah. They look wild. I'm assuming there's some sort of 1970s theme going on.

Otherwise, they've all got a lot of excellent glitter and flares in their lives. They were having a really good reunion. They're underrated reunions. I've got quite a few. I've just had one. I've got another couple coming up before Christmas. When you get to my stage in life, there's a lot of reunions to have.

Reunions to have. Right, let's get on to the hairy bikers who are Psy King and Dave Myers. They've got a new cookbook out, but actually, although this interview does mention the book, it's not solely about that, believe me. It's called Ultimate Comfort Food, and part of it is dedicated to the hospital staff that

helped dave myers during his recent battle with cancer as he does say in this conversation he certainly isn't through it yet um they do say in the intro that if we're talking comfort food it doesn't have to always be super high calorie butteryy pies and all that stodgy, splodgy stuff. Oh, absolutely. I mean, some people's comfort food is a salad. Yeah, well, it's not mine, but... No, no, but, you know, it's a salad with, like, there's one in there for smoked fish with beans and everything.

It's got all the elements that make you want to, you know, keep on eating it. And also we are a culturally diverse country. So, you know, in a winter's country so there's you know in a winter's night there's nothing more comforting than a curry and there's a lovely chicken yassa which is a west african curry in there it's a bit different but it's tasty and we've tried to find food that and we've spoken to a lot of people to find out food that's their peculiar comfort food or particular comfort food and then we've taken the ideas and worked on the recipes.

And there are some belters. Yeah. There's a Rothal Horno. It was a Spanish nurse who was at the hospital. Yeah. You know, like the Spaniards have the paella and they're so pedantic. But the truth of it is the paella recipe varies

from valley to valley, region to region. I mean, we filmed in a valley where it was cherry and rabbits. But this is like a fridge clear-out paella recipe varies from valley to valley, region to region. I mean, we filmed in a valley where it was cherry and rabbits, but this is like a fridge clear-out paella with belly pork and black pudding, but that all goes into the rice. It's delicious. It really is delicious. I'm not over that cherry and rabbits combo.

I'm really not. Have you had that, Simon? Yeah. Honestly, Jane, trust us, it's fantastic. We didn't cook it, but then we've been cooking it there since Moorish times, haven't we? Yeah, there's a deep, deep history trust us, it's fantastic. We didn't cook it, but then we've been cooking it there since Moorish times, haven't we? Yeah, there's a deep, deep history of it. It's wonderful. It's a great dish.

I love the way in the book there is something for the old Gen Zers. I've got a couple of those, and there's unduja. Is it unduja? I don't know how to pronounce it. Unduja. Okay, sorry. I'm also very uneasy about saying chipotle, because I always say chipotle, and it's... Chipotle.

Yes, I don't take it. But there's chipotle prawn tacos here as well so yeah lots and lots of modern stuff that the youth will enjoy well i think it's hilarious isn't it and that's the wonder about food because it is it is across the generations i mean they come in that you know things come into people you know dishes come into people's radar but chipotles have been used for 25 000 years they're not new are they no no and none of this is you the taco isn't you it's you know it's just it's just what what what drifts into people's radars and they want to eat yeah um and it's great because we live as dave was saying because we live in that multicultural society it's fabulous that that we're able to to eat our way around the world and right across the

country which is a celebration in itself just in case anybody listening doesn't know who put you together to make tv magic nobody really no how did it happen we met in 1992 we both worked as film crew um on a katherine cookson drama the, yeah. Si was the second assistant director. You were in your 20s, weren't you then? I was, yeah. And I was in charge of make-up, hair and prosthetics on this drama. And we went to the pub and you sold me a motorbike and we've been kind of friends ever since. It was a dreadful motorbike.

How dare you? And I still owed money. What was the series like? Oh, the series was fine. We were a crew and it did very well. I stayed up in Newcastle. You did quite a lot of the cooks and dramas. I stayed there for two years and did seven of them.

And so it became kind of part of my home as well. We became good buddies and we kept in touch after that. Obviously as the years went on. And that was it really. When the television programme started, we wanted to make our own programmes.

And it was a bit like, if you write a book, write what we know about. So we thought it was cooking, eating, riding motorbikes and chatting. Yeah, but it isn't usual for two people, two blokes on a film crew, to end up going in front of the camera to make lots of successful shows, is it?

And to be fair, Jane, there was a little bit of resistance in the industry for it, but we just kept plugging and waiting. So we came up with the initial idea, but then it took us three years to get it off the ground. And everybody that we took it to, that we knew and had worked with, went, this has to be celebrity-led. And we were going, well, why? Because we want to do it.

Well, now you are celebrities, though, aren't you? Well, I don't... You see, no, we'd never take that man along. I've never seen myself... It's weird. No, I don't see that. But it could have been the title we gave it, which was pretty crappy, really. Our title for it was

Motorcycles, Food and the Search for Nirvana, which wasn't exactly snappy, was it? Well, that's BBC Two, though, isn't it? So they might have gone for it. No, that was us. Oh, that was you? Yeah, no, we have to take the responsibility for that one. That was just us pushing our ways.

Yeah, that was, by the way, that was side coughing because you've got a cough, you can't shift. Yeah, I have. Most of the UK's got it, I think, because everywhere I go... Well, I didn't have it until you walked in. No, neither did I, Jane. I'm fighting not to have it. If I get it tomorrow, I'll know exactly it until you walked in. Neither did I, Jen. I'm fighting not to have it. If I get it tomorrow, I'll know exactly who to blame.

Yes. And I think the reason that people love your TV shows, and they do, is because it's as much about your friendship as it is about the food. And then there's the bikes thrown in as well. And then some fantastic countryside. And with a focus on the north of the country,

which I think appeals to a lot of people. Well, over the past couple, I mean we've been four times around the world on a motorcycle and I think that the last series certainly has focused on the UK and the past couple of Well Covid didn't help did it? No it didn't

but you know the whole thing about the Hairy Bikers is just to give is to give people story, we're just conduits for other people's stories You know, the whole thing about the Hairy Bikers is just to give people story. We're just conduits for other people's stories. You know, Dave and I can have the crack when we're cooking and doing all of that and the cookbooks and all that. But it's just a wonderful experience to listen to people's stories and give them a platform to tell it.

Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. Where is the, be honest, the nastiest place you've ever been to? Oh, I don't know know some of the places that are nasty in terms of rough and humble have had the most wonderful people so it's hard to yeah you know to say that i think sometimes in mid-america um you know some evenings in the strip malls in the middle of i think that's what I was getting at, really. Grimsville. Yeah, it was pretty miserable.

And after like a week of, do we go to this homogenised takeaway or the next one, or do we just go to a garage and get a six-pack of beer and a microwave burger? Those literally were the choices. That's pretty grim after a while. Until we got to Santa Fe, when you got the Mexican food coming in,

we started to live a little bit better. I think what was interesting about our trip across the states and particularly on the Route 66 series that we did, because we did another series in the south called The Mississippi Adventure. Yeah. But the most recent one, as I say, was Route 66. And what was interesting about, historically, the heritage of Route 66, and particularly, you know, modern culture,

there was a lot of depth and knowledge came from that route. But it kind of had been forgotten once the highway came in. So there was all these backwaters that were, and then all of a sudden it started to enter the American psyche again, that Route 66 was actually, in terms of culture yeah quite quite important and modern culture but the food on route it was challenging to find great food and when you did find it it was good wasn't it yeah it is but say like one night we we all we went to a supermarket as a crew because we're all mates we all get on really well.

We just thought we'd have a picnic outside the hotel, because the hotel was pretty bad. And we bought bread. We were making sandwiches, deli stuff. And on the bread on the back, there was a health warning that this bread contains known carcinogens. And we thought, that's the daily bread. It's not a good place to live you know do you think most americans know that their choices are actually limited or rather maybe in the industries have combined i've come i don't know combined in some way to make them bad bad you know what i'm getting at yeah i do absolutely absolutely jane and i think that that that it that it is i personally and I know Dave and I have had,

we found it pretty sinister that because it is corporate America eating its people, it's a very weird schism in terms of food. And there is a large movement to push back against that. But by the very nature of that movement and the constrictions that they're under, given the commerciality of it all, it's expensive, so not everybody can afford it. So there's this mad schism of food culture in the States.

If you're privileged enough to afford it, you can eat well. If you're not, you can't. And in Europe, the French hugely rate themselves, don't they, in terms of their cuisine? And I actually think we probably have a more varied and interesting offering. We may not take advantage, but there's so many because of our mix of cultures and ethnicities.

But I mean, look, within half a mile of where I'm sitting now, I could probably eat the world, couldn't I? Definitely, definitely yeah definitely i mean i've got a house in france i've had it for seven years and i find it it's funny not far from where we live it's in the loire um there's a a monster you know chain of burger restaurants has opened and it's doing really well oh that's so's soul-destroying. Yeah, but an awful lot of the provincial French restaurants that used to be great to go into, they're not now. And I was reading an article last week and it said that something like only 4% of French restaurants

now are cooking everything from scratch. The rest are kind of bought in and prepared food. And there's talk now of being a law that if it's bought in and prepared, they have to say so on the menu but if you try and get like you say you try and get asian food in france it's a watered-down version or it's it's the same as in italy as well isn't it yeah absolutely and i mean i think it's about the identity isn't it a nation's identity is given by its cuisine and and and italy as is as france is is there are

incredibly italy probably more so it's incredibly rural it's incredibly rural and incredibly um regional yeah so you know that they're not you know most italians are either from their area and then italian second so ital. So Italian cuisine is a generic term for a depth of cuisine that's remarkable and it's so focused. I remember cooking for a hunting party once and everything went really, really well. And a stranieri cooking for a hunting party is a big thing.

And I cooked and they went, oh yeah, everything was great other than the sage. You should have used salvia lingua. And I said, sorry? He said, you should have used the long sage with the anchovy. Because you can't, you shouldn't be using the short sage. And I was like, right, right. Well, I think I've done very well,

if that's all you've picked up on then. So that's great. But you took the advice, and you'll only ever use that again presumably in the future absolutely yeah okay yeah right voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone

so psy king and dave myers otherwise known as the hairy bikers their latest book is called ultimate comfort food and dave you were just saying that a place with great food is argentina otherwise known as the Hairy Bikers. Their latest book is called Ultimate Comfort Food. And Dave, you were just saying that a place with great food is Argentina, which I wouldn't necessarily have thought of. Yeah, we ate really well there, didn't we? In Buenos Aires, there's some amazing food. And yeah, the steaks and the beef was good.

But with that long South Atlantic coastline going down to Patagonia, the seafood was great, like the spider crabs, king crabs, sea bass. That was stunning. The baking spider crabs, king crabs, sea bass. It was stunning. The baking cultures from Spanish and Italian, the pasta culture there was amazing. We ate very well. And down in Patagonia, there was little Welsh tea shops. You know, it was just bonkers.

It was amazing, wasn't it? Because you'd ride down the road, and then there was, like, garage, maintenance, Juan Carlos Jones Evans. And it was just like, what? You've got Welsh male voice choirs, and they could speak in Spanish and Welsh, but not English. But again, the food on route was good. We ate well. Well, you mentioned Argentinian beef.

Headline in The Times today, vegans and cost of living squash meat consumption apparently it is true UK meat consumption is at its lowest level since records began okay now um I know you have got you've got some veggie stuff in here some vegan stuff as well actually um does it concern you I mean are you worried about this or is it just one of those things Dave and I could talk about this a lot Jane because the thing is that we come from if you if you remember we come from a from a generation whereby that meat was expensive yes yeah and and we didn't have it every day you might have it on a sunday we might have it on a sunday and you may have something midweek but it would normally be a relative be a whistle

yeah something less and and there's just this this this new um psychic schism of entitlement that do that if i want to eat meat all the time then i can which is fine because that's what we've profited over the past 25 30 years um but it for for us it's i've kind of still stayed with that with that culture that i was brought up in that that if i buy meat it has to be the best I can find, and I have to be able to afford it at the time. If not, I'll eat something else. And that's just the way I've been brought up. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong. I'm just simply saying that that's my application to it.

So you never give it up? No, no. I don't eat that much of it anyway, but no, I don't think I would give it up, no. I don't want to eat that much of it anyway. But no, I don't think I would give it up, no. No. I like the Mediterranean way of meat and the attitude. It's part of the dish, it's part of the meal, but it's not the whole.

No. You know, and a little meat goes an awful long way. But I must admit, at this time of year, as it starts to get chillier, and actually I feel this year we've waited quite a long time for it to get chillier but it finally has there is something comforting about a red meat casserole yes oh gosh you know a slow a slow cooked something or other yeah that you can leave on all day and just come home to and it's just bliss it's heaven yeah i've moved into a house recently it's got an old agar. Right. And I've got used to it now.

But for those slow-cooked meals, you know, put it in your bottom oven for like 12 hours and there's something about being that tin box. It's so nice, you know, things like your beef bourguignon or indeed the tray bakes as well. They're really good. And there's nothing better, is there, than those classic Britishish cuts of of of meat because we butcher in a particular way here so that feather blade and and um an ox tail just

really slowly cooked with a load of onions and and and carrots and celery and red wine lamb shank isn't it yeah exactly it's all of that big mutton shank. Or with your pasta, make an oxtail ragu. Just cook the oxtail down for about eight hours with red wine, tomatoes and herbs. Then just strip the meat off and then use the juices. Fantastic with pappardelle. Well, that does sound good. Oh, yeah. You mentioned earlier, Dave,

that there is a dish that was inspired by somebody who looked after you. Yes. In case anybody doesn't know, you've been through cancer. I'm still going through it. You're still going through it. Yeah. And you've had, I believe, is it 30 rounds of chemotherapy? 39 at the last count on radiotherapy.

Okay. I mean, there will be many people listening who think, oh, you know, I really feel for him. I've been through that myself. Others, the rest of us who've been fortunate enough, I haven't been through it. First of all, how does it impact on your tastes and your appetite? At first, it was dreadful because you're fighting to keep your weight up

and you have no appetite and obviously nausea but things like I can't eat I hate carrots I've just got this morbid phobia about carrots you've always had that no I loved carrots before but now I don't like that

but when I was really ill so i came to stay on comfort food and just left me loads of mince and dumplings good old-fashioned sweet dumplings and i enjoyed that with the grape you know the dumplings are soggy on the bottom and crispy on the top perfect um but yeah it's it's it's different now. I've still got to, you know, it's made me appreciate more good food, really. Yeah. You know, but I do eat well and I'm trying to eat healthier, you know, because it's part of my recovery. Yeah. Or it's part of, you know, making the way I live better. You know, I'm trying to eat more.

See, I'm trying to eat more. See, I'm trying to eat more vegetables. So I've started cooking more Indian, South Indian vegetarian recipes and talis. You know, I spend a day cooking Indian curries with loads of okra, aubergines and everything. And it's the way for myself, I can get the spices and the nutrients in me. It's been tough, you know,

because you're fighting the chemicals that once a fortnight they put in your body. But there's many people like me, you know. Somebody said to look at chemotherapy like a diabetic would with insulin. It's a necessary evil for the time being or however long, we don't know. But I'm here now, I'm out with my best mate, writing books again, eating, talking about food, we're working on where we're going to eat tonight,

and life's wonderful, Jane. Well, it's good to hear you sounding so positive. Yeah. Because I don't, for one minute, think this has been easy for you. And actually, I don't suppose it's been easy for you either, Si, because nobody wants to see their mate going through a hard time. Well, no, it's been heartbreaking, and I think

it's a gamut of emotion. You can't just pin it on one. You get angry, you get just because of the situation that you find somebody that you love in. It's anger, it's frustration, it's peaks

and troughs of great highs and then quite low moments but the most important thing is that it's a funny thing love you know isn't it because it's just about showing it and making sure that you know we're best mates and we're like brothers and it's like family. It's not just... It transcends everything else, really, and it's just about making sure I just want more, right? You know, and he will be.

It impacts on the family as well. You know, it's so difficult for my wife and family. You know, that not knowing that your future is completely turned upside down. To some extent, you learn to live with it because you have to or else you'd go mad. I mean, that's one reason why I was desperate to get back to work.

Yeah. It's my normality. And to get back to work with Kingy, it's what I've known for 20-odd years now. And it's important. Oh, it is important, yeah. Psychologically. Yeah, and also I think for my wife as well.

It gave her some freedom away from me. I mean, in the nicest possible way, Jane. You know, I felt good about being able to, you know, let her have some time to herself, albeit to go to the gym or a spa, just to have some of her time, because to go to the gym or a spa, just to have some of her time, because it's been so all-encompassing.

But, no, it's... I've got to say, you know, making the new series Go West wasn't... This is out in the new year, isn't it? Yes, it is, yeah. It wasn't... It certainly wasn't easy for Dave or any of us on the crew. It just wasn't easy. And the effort that Dave put in was gigantuan.

And it was remarkable. I was enormously proud of him because it's hard work. I bet it is. I mean, just explain what it is you do because you're riding from Scotland down to Devon. You're back on your bikes. You're back on the bikes. We're cooking're cooking i mean they shorted the days down but it was kind of like nine ten hours which was like a pretty good working day um but we've done a christmas special as well which is very special very important really because it's kind of like i

don't know what the title is now but i think at one time it's meant to be the hairy bikers best ever christmas so christmas i didn't think i'd be around to enjoy so we're cooking for people who It's kind of like, I don't know what the title is now, but I think at one time it was You Need To Be The Hairy Biker's Best Ever Christmas. It was a Christmas I didn't think I'd be around to enjoy. So we're cooking for people who have made it possible for me to be here, from the physios to the nurses. And indeed, what we talked about before, a lot of the ideas in the book have come from the nurses because when you've got chemo, you've got a long time.

So the nurses come in and chat about food and they're from all over the world. And they bring me food in, which is very kind. Sometimes it's a bit difficult to eat a cheesecake whilst you're having chemo. But it was a very nice cheat, but I seemed to cope quite well with it, really. It's given with a smile, a bit of love.

And then everybody wants to talk about, you see, we're doing this book on comfort food myself, and say, oh, well, we have this in our country, and we have that, and the whole thing escalates. Because, of course, our nurses come from all over the place, don't they? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness.

Yeah, well, quite, and thank goodness. Yeah. Any thoughts on hospital food? Don't get yourself into trouble. No, I've been very lucky and in fact you know when i haven't been eating they've come up from the kitchen and said look can we get anything in and things like i said you know for breakfast just some toast peanut butter and jam well they don't do peanut butter for allergies and it was like we'll we'll find you a pot, you know. So things like that was very kind.

People didn't have to do that. And, yeah, things like in the canteen for the nurses, they do real chips rather than just salad. So I'd say, I couldn't have, like, chips with me panini. Yeah, all right, Dave. Yeah. So your celebrity status, you see, brought you a certain amount of special treatment maybe? Nah

just really kind people there's a great level of being through this I can imagine I think you've dealt with it brilliantly from the Sound of Things and of course with the help of your mate here which is brilliant and other members of your wider circle and family I'm sure

so I think a lot of people will be just chuffed that you're around them out to talk about it all Dave with your mate here, which is brilliant, and other members of your wider circle and family, I'm sure. So I think a lot of people will be just chuffed that you're around them out to talk about it all, Dave. So thank you. Thank you very much for coming in. And the book is lovely. It's called Ultimate Comfort Food, Risotto Carbonara. I mean, the Italians are not going to be happy with that. No, they're not.

No, they're not. That's exactly what we were saying. We say it's our Frankenstein dish. We've morphed the two together. That's the one I think I'll try, though. It's really good. There are no carbs in it, are there? No.

Yeah, Lord. No. Nothing to worry about. Nothing to worry about. Ultimate Comfort Food is the name of that book. And it was really good to see Dave and Si. And as you said, Jane, they're proper pals and they've been through quite a lot together, actually.

And it struck me that Dave was really putting the effort in because he does regard work as a distraction from feeling shit. And he's been through so much chemo, 39 rounds, he said. And I know there'll be people listening who say, yeah, I've done that too. Well, I just, I mean, I really am impressed by the people with the strength to go through that. It's so tough, isn't it?

It really is. And it's had an impact on the way he thinks about everything. Of course. I mean, it's natural, isn't it? Thank you very much. Frankenstein dish was the one they mentioned at the end. That's risotto carbonara. I'm going to say that did look calorific,

but by God, I want to eat it, which I suppose is probably the point of the book, isn't it? What are you having for your tea tonight, Jane? Probably crisp and wine, Jane. I'm going to a party. Does it ever, ever end? You're going out too, Garvey. Yes, I am going out, but mine's mainly a work function. Will yours be sitting down and eating?

Sitting down and eating. I'll have one cocktail. One cocktail. Learn from an older, can I say, less experienced woman. Thanks, Jane, I'll take that. No, you should, it's a compliment. Right, we're back tomorrow. Thank you very much

for listening. Jane and Fee at times.radio is the email address. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class.

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