Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Let's Be Avenue! (with Mackenzie Crook)

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Fi's off today, and Jane's feeling a bit under the weather. But it's Thursday, so hey ho! Jane covers sinister festive postboxes, Mr. Bungle, and retirement allotments. Plus, actor Mackenzie Crook discusses 'If Nick Drake Came to My House'. Get your suggestions in for the next book club pick!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's not a bad place to live, Grace Jones close. The parking's a bit tight, but it's okay if residents remember to pull up to their bumpers. Right, welcome, hello, welcome to Thursday's Off Air. It's just Jane sounding nasal today, I'm really sorry about that. Fee can't be with us today but she'll be back on Monday and I do have something special to offer you, something you probably didn't expect to hear, which is the fantastic actor Mackenzie Crook talking about his love for a singer-songwriter who I certainly really really like and I bet a few of you like him too, Nick Drake. And who knew that the two would come together in a literary marriage which has produced If Nick Drake Came to My House, a very cute and again strangely moving picture book by Mackenzie Crook. So we'll hear why Mackenzie

Crook just feels just so devoted to Nick Drake and his works a little bit later in what will be a foreshortened podcast. But I was thinking yesterday that we were just doing our podcast for too long. Yesterday's was very long. I got a complaint from a school friend who just wanted to hear Michael Ball and she couldn't believe how much guff she had to wade through to get to Michael. Heartbreaking. Anyway, so today's will be short, relatively sweet, certainly a bit involving Mackenzie Crook, and hopefully by next week my nasal passages will have cleared. But I suspect I sound very similar to many of you right now because this thing is just raging across the land. Stephanie has sent a book club suggestion and we haven't entirely decided yet, 100 billion percent which book we're going to

do next time. But Stephanie says, I wanted to suggest one of Clover Stroud's book. She's written a series of memoirs and her latest one is The Giant on the Skyline, which is about what home is and a sense of belonging. She's got a really lyrical style, which is very different to anything we've read so far. Best wishes, Stephanie. Okay, Stephanie, thank you. I think what really touched me about your email was that final sentence where you said it's just very different to anything we've read so far. And I suddenly then thought, yeah, we're in a club. We're part of a club. We are reading this together. That's what makes it so special. And we don't put time pressure on you, as you know,

you've got months usually, well, six weeks to read the book. So we will decide next week when Fia's back, which one we're going to do. And then we'll probably get around to discussing it, I don't know, sometime in mid February or something like that when there'll be snow on the ground and you'll already have forgotten about. The delights of Christmas. We're still getting emails back, Greg Wallace, not all of which we can read out, I need to say. But this is from Susan. They could give him a job on the old TV program Rainbow. I think he'd make a good zippy, but who would play Bungo? Well, I don't want to be so perditipedent, Susan. It was Bungle on Rainbow, actually,

not Bungo. And I always remember the episode of Rainbow in which Bungle's surname was revealed and tantalizingly it was Bounce. So he was Mr. I think he was a Mr. Mr. Bungle Bounce and I clung to that fact. I don't know why. As he isn't here I can talk about premium bonds. So many of you like me will have that little little frisson of excitement on the early morning of the premium bond prize draw. So we can go to our app and check whether or not we've won 25 quid. Sometimes 50 quid. This month I didn't get anything, not a penny. And I was incandescent with rage for about five minutes.

What does that one say? December's draw from young Evelyn. Okay, you didn't get anything either. You got an out? No. Yeah but you're only young. You've got other ways of getting excitement. You need it more. Okay. If anybody wants to start a GoFundMe for Young Eve's Christmas, you know what you can do. Give the money to charity instead. Right, this is from Nick. On the subject of grudges, it's premium bond time, yes it certainly was, and I'm waiting to hear whether my older brother has beaten me yet again in the monthly draw.

He always wins more than me, every single month, and it is ever so slightly galling. He's 10 years older than me, and I've never been able to beat him at anything, even the premium bonds. Until the monthly bond check comes in, it's become a real thing between us. I hadn't realised quite how competitive and grudgy I could be. The rest of the fam thinks it's hilarious. Here's hoping for victory this month. Right Nick, we need to know what happened. Did you manage to beat your brother? My mum does the premium bonds too and she almost always wins.

I mean not huge sums but she will almost always get 25 quid and it's exactly the same when she puts a bet on which she does once a year precisely on the Grand National. Never ever ever loses, always. Usually gets her stake back and a few quid more. And this has been a pattern now for many, many years. And you're right, it's simply not fair. This is from Victoria. She's had quite a few emails about strange Christmas experiences. And Victoria went to a friend's house. And then they went to a garden center on the Isle of Wight. and there was a kind of Father Christmas Santa experience going on there. And some relatively sinister seasonal vocals coming from a talking Christmas post box,

which kept crooning, do you want to post a letter in me? Yeah, I mean, well, I don't really want to hear, I don't want a post box to sing at me. Street names. Fee mentioned, Grace Jones Close. Inevitably, we got this from Sean. It's not a bad place to live, Grace Jones Close.

The parking's a bit tight, but it's OK if residents remember to pull up to their bumpers. Is that funny, Eve? I don't know whether it's funny or slightly rude. Angie is now living on the South Coast, but she thinks a lot of her favourite football team Norwich. Read your conversation about Rhodes being named after people. A few years ago, Delia Smith, that Delia Smith, I love Delia, you'll recall that in 2005 in front of Norwich City fans she came up with one of the most famous football rants of all time. Norwich City were at the time in relegation trouble, now she was a lifelong

fan and a major shareholder at the club. Well at half time in high heels she strode onto the pitch, Norwich were already 2-0 down. She grabbed a mic and to rally the fans she shouted, we need a 12th man here, where are you? Where are you? Come on, Let's Be Avenue! Rumour has it that she had had a few drinks. A few years later when I returned to my hometown there had been quite a lot of new flats built around the football ground and brilliantly one of the roads had been appropriately named Let's Be Avenue. What a fantastic homage to a great woman. The clip is on YouTube, Angie reminds us, it's well worth a watch. Angie, thank

you very much. Let's Be Avenue. I want to live on Let's Be Avenue. Delia is, she's a fanatical football fan and I did interview her once. It was supposed to be an interview about whatever her latest cookery was but actually she really wanted to talk about football and she properly loves Norwich City and I did ask her how much money she'd put into the club at that point and she just said I just I don't really want to think about it but but it's a lot. But anyway, look, she loves her footy and what's wrong with that? Now yesterday on the Times radio show, 2 till 4, Monday to Thursday, get the Times radio app.

It won't cost you a penny to get that and then you can listen at your leisure and at ease wherever you are, quite literally, in the world. We were talking about this new phenomenon of living apart together. So couples, particularly those in their 50s and 60s who have elected to be together as a couple when it suits them, but to maintain completely separate households. And I'm really interested in this. I mean I completely understand why it might happen. You've obviously got to have the resources to maintain two separate households, but I can completely see why it suits people. This is from James he says it feels like me and my wife do

that already the amount of hours I work. I'm 61 she's 59 she says when I'm at home I just spoil her routine and get under her feet. She's told me that when I retire I've just got to get an allotment. Right. So he isn't there to bother her from the sound of things. Could that be you? Let us know what you think about living apart together. Jane and Fee at times.radio. In the interest of transparency,

because we know you like to keep this podcast authentic, we've had to just stop the recording so I could try and find a hankie. I couldn't find one, so then Eve had to lend me some loo roll. So we've moved on but I'm really sorry. Normal service will resume next week, I promise. We did have a conversation earlier this week about the Joni Mitchell song, Both Sides Now. It's heartbreaking, this is from Amelia, but to me it's part of Christmas every year because it will of course form a part of Love Actually, the Richard Curtis

film. Now there is a lot of issues with Love Actually aren't there? There are some really quite dubious strands of that storyline that don't bear great scrutiny in 2024. But Amelia is right, the stand out bit of acting, there are no words and there's no one else in the room, but it's when Emma Thompson is in her bedroom fighting back tears after she realises that her husband, played by Alan Rickman, is having an affair. He gives her a Joni Mitchell single rather than the gold necklace that she found in his pocket. That is an absolutely incredible moment. It's the most poignant piece of acting, says Amelia, as it's so truthful. Everything has changed in an instant, yet everything has got to stay the same for the children. She does the ultimate

pull yourself together scene, while she's slowly dying inside knowing her marriage is a lie That detail of straightening the blanket on the bed is just so perfect placing everything in order before she goes back downstairs to put on the mummy show and Usher them out of the door to go to that Christmas performance. God. Yeah Yes, absolutely incredible. I don't think I know a hashtag middle-class woman of a certain age who cannot relate to it. And the Joni Mitchell song in the background makes me cry along with her every single year. Amelia, thank you. And from Jazz in Edinburgh, thought you might like to see on YouTube, you can

see Joni Mitchell performing both sides now live at the Newport Folk Festival in 2022. She was a surprise guest, sang with a group of musicians including Brandi Carlisle and her band. It was her first return to the stage since a near fatal aneurysm in 2015. Wow what it must have been like to be in that crowd. I love the warmth and the wisdom in her wonderfully deep voice. Yeah, I mean, she's, Joanie Mitchell is phenomenal and both sides now is everything you'd ever

want from a song. I just want to end on this before we mercifully bring in Mackenzie Crook, who sounds a lot better than me, trust me. And even I sound better because it was recorded a while ago, so you don't have to put up with this too much longer. Now that you have paused rude veg chat in homage to the baby Jesus, yes we have Liz, perhaps you might like to hear about how the tradition of random tombola prizes continues. I love this. I was running my church tombola on Saturday at a Christmas fair, she says, and I was so touched to see one small boy

be very gracious indeed to discover he'd won a tea towel featuring the villagers of Cornwall. His mum said cheerfully that they did need another tea towel. Somebody else was pleased with a box of M&S tea bags. However, nobody won the long red plastic doofa for throwing dog balls. I mean, I've got a dog and I wouldn't want one, she says. Anyway, it's back into the box of delights for the next Tom Bowler. On a different note, perhaps you could share stories in advent of trying new things. I think this is a good one from Liz. Tonight, I've decided to come on, to go on my own to a gig for a band I love, De La Metri.

I've never seen them live despite being a fan since the 90s. I'm feeling brave and pleased with myself for going. The support actor at the moment, they're not my cup of tea, which is why I'm emailing you. Okay, well I'm not going to name check the support, sorry you don't like them. But she goes on to say, I wonder if any other members of the Off Air extended family have tried anything new recently. Okay, I think that's a great idea from Liz and I love the idea of Liz just thinking, oh, sod it, I want to see Delamitri, so I'm going.

And it's true that once you get to middle age, let's be honest, you can't always rouse any interest from fellow travelers, particularly when it comes to music, because you might love a particular band and Telemetry I think are great, but you might not know anyone else who shares your passion. So you've either got a choice of you can either not go, or you can just go as Liz has done. And Liz, I think it's brilliant. So over to you, it's Jane and Fee at Times.Radioio tell us what you've done for the very first time in this December or even this year actually we'll settle for that. So Mackenzie Crook, brilliant actor he's known for what the Detectorists and The

Office of course in which he played Gareth the rules obsessed assistant manager. Every time I mention The Office I feel on a bound to confess I've never actually seen a single episode and I am gonna put that right. I am gonna try and watch it, I'm sure it's available. He also of course was in the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. He's just a brilliant actor and actually as you'll hear in this interview, rather he's a sensitive soul and he's a big big fan of very very folky, whimsical, melancholic, very English performer Nick Drake who died 50 years ago incredibly and he has written a classic, well it's actually a homage to a classic children's book originally by somebody called Joan Gale Thomas and that was a religious text called If

Jesus Came to My House. Mackenzie was given it to read when he was just a little boy, never ever forgot it and he wanted to recreate it but he wanted to involve Nick Drake. So the book is called, it's called If Nick Drake Came to My House, it's by Mackenzie Crook and you'll hear in this interview just why Mackenzie Crook loves, continues to love, Nick Drake's work to this day. I asked him when he'd first come across Nick Drake's work. I first listened to his music in I guess the late 90s but after years of having been recommended it through lots of friends but for some reason I resisted. It was like this

pressure on me to listen to this music that everyone said I was going to love and it felt a bit like homework. And when I did finally listen to it, then I regretted not having listened to it years before because of course I instantly loved it. And yeah, they're the three albums that I probably play most out of anything. Why did so many people think that you'd like his stuff? I don't know. I guess it's the other sort of music I like. I love music with lyrics and poetry set to music and that's what it is. It's beautiful lyrical folk music I suppose but I guess people just saw something in me

that they knew that I would appreciate Nick Drake's music. To my shame the only key fact I know about Nick Drake and I have heard some of his songs is that his sister was an actress who is in Crossroads. Yes, and I met her last night for the first time. Did you? Okay, that's Gabrielle Drake, is that right? Yes, yes. And is she his only sibling? Yes, that's right, yeah. She's a few years older than him. And what was it like to meet her?

It was nerve-racking, to be honest. I didn't know what she would have thought of this book that I've done. It's a strange little... I'm masquerading as a children's book, but it's a short poem, a nursery rhyme almost, about if Nick Drake came to my house. And I needn't have worried because she was charming and she loved the book and she said how in a couple of the illustrations I'd really captured her brother and the essence of him and that was really lovely to hear. In the book and I think in real life he was a tall, a slightly frail looking young man? Yes, he was a fragile chap I think. I mean he's often been portrayed as this tortured poet and I don't think that was really the case. The more I found out about him, the more I've realized there's a lot of mythology around Nick Drake and for the most part of his life he was very happy, very popular, very charismatic guy.

But just this beautiful, very personal music and quite often it's very sad, which I think is where a lot of the myths come from. The book is also, if not sad, there's a kind of melancholia about it, but it's set very firmly in the suburbs and it's got a really nice gentle quality to it. That was obviously what you intended. Yes and it came, the whole idea came from a book that my dad was given in the 1940s when he was a little boy called If Jesus Came to My House. It's a Sunday school book that's, and my book is very much an homage to the style of that and the style of illustration as well. But that's a told of a little boy who opens his door one day to find Jesus there, also his little boy has come around to spend the afternoon.

And though I've never been religious, that book always struck me as a really poignant, lovely thing to imagine meeting someone that you could never actually meet through time or through circumstance, but they turn up and they become your friend. You spend some quality time with them. Yeah, well, in your book, Nick obliges you by, well, he just spends time as you say, but he does sing. And what does he sing?

He sings his new song to me. That's part of the fantasy that he's come around and he wants to try out a new song. It's actually my son that I've drawn into the book. I didn't have myself answering the door. But yes, so he comes in and he's got a new song that he wants to try out. So has your son inherited your love of Nick Drake then? He has, and it's funny because when he was first born,

I was in charge of the three o'clock in the morning feed and I always used to play him a Nick Drake track while I was feeding him hoping that it would somehow seep in through some sort of osmosis and he would become a Nick Drake fan and a musician and both of those things have happened he's a he's very accomplished guitarist. Wow actually that's that's a really good tip for anyone doing the three in the morning feed or anticipating it tomorrow play a bit of Nick Drake. Do you remember which song in particular you'd play in the wee small hours? I think it was usually Nick's last album, Pink Moon, which is very stripped back, it's

just him and his guitar and it's very gentle and quite hypnotic. So yeah, the other two albums have a bit more production on them and other instruments and tracks, but Pink Moon was the the Three O'Clock in the Morning album. Did he ever achieve anything like a decent level of success when he was alive? Well no, and that's one of the poignant things about his story. I mean his story is almost as alluring as his music, and no he didn't. He didn't enjoy performing live and so he sort of resisted that and back in those days and we're talking late 60s early 70s you had to get out on the road and do gig after gig after gig and to build up a following

and he didn't enjoy that and his albums, no they did very little business at all, very few people bought them and it's only in the sort of a decade after he died tragically at the age of 26, in the years that followed that he started to get following people, started to sit up and take notes of these three in my view perfect albums. Yeah and was he self-taught or was he somebody who'd studied music? I think he was self-taught. He came from a very musical family. His mother, Molly Drake, was a songwriter. She never had anything produced,

but she was an accomplished songwriter and musician. I think his dad and his sister both played the piano as well. You're somebody who's absolutely lived a showbiz life. I'm not suggesting you're a showbiz type, but merely that you've worked in showbiz and you must have been in some quite high octane atmospheres over the years with some, I'm going to say challenging people Mackenzie, I'm just going to say it. Would you retreat to Winnebago and have a Nick Drake moment at times of stress? Quite possibly, yes.

I mean, I do go to his music, as I said, a lot of the time. And yes, it is very calming. So yes, I don't know if I've escaped from difficult people and used his music to calm down, but it's always there for me, yeah. Is there going to be any more Worzel Gummage? Worzel Gummage I would like to do more with. I don't feel like I've finished with that.

Detecturists, I'm very pleased that I've done the right amount and I don't want to spoil that, but Worzel, I had such a great time making those shows and I really became really fond of the old scarecrow and I think there possibly are more stories to tell. So yeah, one day I would like to go back to that. Well, I really hope so because there is a brilliant subversive quality to Wurzel and the world he inhabits. It's quite unique actually, there's a bit of telly that yeah, children can enjoy but actually so could everybody else. Oh thank you and yeah I really enjoyed I enjoy writing for children I enjoy not patronising them and coming up with jokes that hope yeah

they will find funny but hopefully adults will as well so yeah it's a joy to write. Can we just end with your beginner's guide to Nick Drake let's say there's someone listening who has vaguely heard the name, hasn't got a clue. Where do you start? What's the best track that will begin a love affair with Nick Drake? I think, well, Place To Be on the Pink Moon album is possibly my favorite song. River Man is beautiful and Northern Sky is beautiful. There are only three albums as I said so it's not like there's a whole load that you have to trawl through to find stuff that you like and possibly

they should be listened to in the order he released them which is Five Leaves Left, then Brighter Later, then Pink Moon. But yeah as I say there's not an awful lot of material out there so it's it's a pleasant afternoons listening. I hope that's given you a little bit of inspiration. If you want to just discover, I mean, we were talking earlier about doing new things, if you want to discover the work of someone who went 50 years ago, but actually his songs are, they are timeless. And you could, I'm just thinking in those days between Christmas and New Year or maybe early in January, it'd be just the job. A flickering candle and the works of Nick Drake. It doesn't get any better.

Perhaps a couple of on-the-turn mince pies and some old ham and you'd be set up for the evening. That was the actor Mackenzie Crook talking about his love for Nick Drake and in particular his new picture book, If Nick Drake Came to My House. Now hopefully all nasal passages will be clear by Monday of next week and we very much hope you can join us then. We'll be around all week. We don't close up shop until the 19th of December so some way off and then there will be an email special coming your way, it will plunge on Christmas Day itself and if you'd like to take part in that with perhaps a Christmas memory email then we would love to hear from you. Just email the normal address but just market Christmas and we'll

involve you in that email bonanza which we'll do just before we split up for the Christmas holidays. Right, back next week, it's Jane O Fee at Times. Radio. Take care. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.