Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Live at WOW Festival

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

In this bonus episode of Off Air, Jane and Fi are live from WOW - Women of the World Festival at the Royal Festival Hall in London.They're joined onstage by comedian and writer Meera Syal and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner June Oscar.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kea BrowningTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Welcome to a special bonus off-air, which we did last Friday at the Women of the World Festival

at the Southbank Centre in London. It is actually... Well, it does take place all over the world, wow, doesn't it? This is the London version of it. It definitely does, yes. But it is the biggest festival in the world celebrating women, girls and non-binary people. And we got the chance to talk to

two incredible women. We did and we were delighted to be asked to the festival we were on stage at the Royal Festival Hall which we just find quite funny don't we because we've done a show at the Royal Festival Hall before it's just one of those things having lived in London for god 35 years now

and always loved wandering along the South Bank there isn't a single nano bit of me that ever thought we'd be on stage at the Royal Festival Hall. So it has been a real delight, Jane, don't you think? Yeah, the Sydney Opera House. I have to pinch myself. That has eluded us so far. Not only so far.

Well, I don't think you'd be able to take the flight. I think you'd have to leave now and you'd probably have to go on a cruise ship. Yeah, I would have to go on a cruise. Called the Queen Elizabeth I. By the time I got off the Golden Hind, I'd have had so many captain's dinners. I'd be about 90 stone. I think you'd have scurvy. So anyway, it was a real honour to be there.

And we were joined on stage by two incredible women. The Aboriginal activist June Oscar and comedian, writer, singer and actress. And just all round good egg, actually. She's a campaigner too, Meera Sayal. So you get to hear a little bit of chat with both those women. And maybe a little bit of chat with us. I just don't know. And we start

off with June Oscar. June Oscar is an indigenous rights activist, Torres Straits Islander social justice commissioner. As I said at the beginning of our session, she did fly in overnight from the United Nations. She is one of the 50 most important women in the world, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. She has so much to say after a lifetime of campaigning. But can we give an enormous Royal Festival Hall welcome to her absolutely cracking sister. It is June Oscar. I'm sorry to keep you waiting out there. We waffled on a little bit, but can I ask you immediately,

we had that lovely question from Kiki, 15 years old. She's come along to the WOW Festival here, she listens to our podcast and she wanted to know our advice for a career in journalism. What would your advice be to a young ambitious 15 year old who wanted to get involved in the world of rights and talking about issues and news. Wow. Like you, I agree. She's a lot braver than I was at 15. Talk to as many people. Don't limit yourself.

You may start thinking that you're wanting to follow similar paths to Jane and Fee, Kiki, you may start there, but you could end up in a very different place doing some amazing things. So don't limit your dreams. That's very good advice. What were you like and where were you when you were 15? Okay. 15, I was in the Kimberley, in the Fitzroy Valley, which is my home region of Western Australia. So we're talking 2,000 kilometres north of Perth, our capital city,

much closer to Asia, we are, than to Perth. I was living my life in what would be commonly looked upon as a refugee camp in the world's terms. But this was a camp where Aboriginal people were moved off traditional lands, placed on these little tracts of land, a kilometre by a kilometre in radius, tracts of land, a kilometre by a kilometre in radius, very little housing, about six taps of running water, living there and expecting to survive and adapt to a new regime. a new regime and to then attend, continue to attend school and learn the English language, master it so that we're prepared, all of us, for this new reality and this new world we were transitioning into. So life was about survival in those camps.

It was about helping my mother, my grandmother, with all of the chores, looking to see where our next meal was coming from. We had access to rivers and creeks and bushland, so we could hunt and gather, as well as combine that with the ration foods that were being supplied by the mission or the missionaries and the government depots where food was being delivered and dispersed to these camps. So my life was very different to where I'm at now.

Little did I think that I would be here in this hall with all of you talking about this. And you've just come from New York. Yeah, so, absolutely. You were at the United Nations, and how widely understood is the plight of indigenous people by the United Nations? Let's just start with that question.

I think the United Nations is becoming very aware of the issues impacting Indigenous peoples across the world. And our presence, though, we can do more, and the UN can do more to create the space for our voices to be at the table informing the UN processes on what the solutions are to the issues impacting Indigenous peoples, whether we're in Canada, whether we're in Australia or the Pacific Islands, wherever we may come from, I think we can always do better to create the space. You've done a lot of work on fetal alcohol syndrome. I was interested to read something, and I really hadn't thought of the implication of this,

but to your community it's incredibly important, isn't it, to pass down your traditions through language. And some of the research that you've been involved in was pointing to a very clear difficulty because of fetal alcohol syndrome impeding that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Australia has a huge drinking culture. huge drinking culture. And when we led the response to, you know, why was it that so many of our children were being expelled from school as young, you know, across the age groups, we were asking ourselves, well, these aren't bad kids, but why are these numbers just being tossed out of the school?

And it was because, largely, the impact of alcohol on brain development and behaviours and abilities of children. So we conducted Australia's first prevalence research and we, you know, really went deeply into the impacts of alcohol on our children and we found that we had around 21% of our childhood population affected. So we were able to respond to their needs. We have now created resources to provide to every single educator coming into a Kimberley school, and it's gone beyond the Kimberley,

resources that will help them understand how to respond in the most supportive, caring, respectful way, but an informed way, around a child who carries fetal alcohol spectrum disorder or fetal alcohol syndrome. So, you know, a child could be anywhere on the spectrum dependent upon the level of exposure at that time in their fetal development.

So this had come from indigenous women-led concerns. I think it's something we don't talk very much about here at all, and we are a nation who drink. Well, I mean, I don't know. Do you ever see, June, Australia's drinking culture changing? I think it probably is slightly... Is it worse than Britain's drinking culture? I don't know.

Well, I'm not qualified to say the Brits drink. But, look, people have... In their... Because leading to the prevalence research on fetal alcohol spectrum disorders in my community, in the year 2006, 50 people died in my community of 4,000 people from preventable deaths, alcohol-related deaths.

The state coroner became very concerned when he had bodies turn up for autopsies and he found in the toxicology reports the readings of alcohol in the bloodstream. It's just horrendous. But the women, led by myself and my colleague Emily Carter, and women in our community, we call for restrictions on the sale of full-strength alcohol

out of our drive-through in our little town because it was selling 250,000 litres of pure ethanol to a community that size and they were making millions. So we led the campaign to calling on the state liquor licensing authority to impose a monitorium on the sale of full strength alcohol. Now, we weren't seen as the nicest women in town. No, probably weren't that popular. We lost friends.

People jumped to the other side of the street when we were coming down the road. We were threatened by, you know, so many, as well as the industry itself. So we led that. But just on the question around the impact of alcohol to Indigenous communities, yes, we are of an oral tradition heritage, so everything is taught,

and by doing, showing, the brain is critical. We have to remember. we have to remember and if we cannot hold memory to then you know transmit the knowledge to the next generation

because of alcohol because of FASD then you're losing a huge amount more than no one can hold memory of who we are as the world's oldest continuous civilisation on this earth,

65,000 years and counting. And that is how we've... You know, people like me and others have learnt our language. We've learnt everything about everything and who we are and how that's so important to hand on to the next generation. I think that's an illustration of what a powerful voice you have, June, and how brilliantly well you've used it. Thank you so much for talking to us tonight.

We really appreciate it. A great privilege to meet you. Thank you very much. It's a real privilege. Thank you thank you very much thank you both and thank you voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.

I'm a very lazy individual, so my favourite introduction is to always just say, she needs no introduction. But I'm a little worker bee, so I've written something down. OK, go on, read out what you've written. Oh, no, do I have to listen to it while I'm here? All right, then, go on. Come on, V, show your working. OK, Meera Sial's work spans comedy, campaigning, writing, singing,

accepting honorary doctorates and MBEs and CBEs. The Kumars at number 42 is said to have been the late queen's favourite TV show, and Mira has just finished filming a new TV series called Mrs Sidhu Investigates, in which a nosy auntie turns proper private detective. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Meera Sian. It wasn't a very exciting queue, but it covers everything. Well, no, I think it covers about an eighth of what she does, actually. I'm incredibly jealous of the MBE and the CBE.

Are you? So when you have your name written down, do you have both after? So it's Mira, Sayal, MBE, CBE, is it? I suppose I could do that, but I don't. I only really use it when I'm writing complaint letters. Right, OK. It's very useful. Or challenging parking tickets.

Actually, my mum brought me quite down to earth the first time I got an MBE, and she kept calling it the MEB, which, of course, stands for Midlands Electricity Board. It kind of put me in my place, really. Yes, yeah. But does one supersede the other? Is one more glorious than the other?

Is one more glorious? Yeah, the CBE is above the MBE. So it shoves the MBE out more glorious than the other. It's one more glorious. Yeah, the CBE is above the MBE. So it shoves the MBE out of the way. Yeah. Well, give that to me then, because I haven't got anything. That's not fair. Come on, just send it in the post. Of course. Yeah, we can

take turns in wearing it. Yeah, okay. That would be great. We can do that. So a dame hood is the next logical step for you, isn't it? Blimey. It's more likely to be pantomime dame, but that's absolutely fine. We can do that. So a damehood is the next logical step for you isn't it? Blimey. It's more likely to be pantomime dame but that's absolutely fine. I mean

you know it's nice when these things come along but it's not kind of why you do what you do. It's why Jane does what she does.

Is it? Is it? I was trying to be polite because I did actually know that. A good point well made. Okay now

we have to make sure the audience do get involved. So please, if you've got a question for Mira, please do move to one of the spotlit mics at some point over the next 20 minutes or so. But we need to know about your new show in which you play a lady detective. A lady detective. So tell us about this.

Well, I'm really genuinely excited about this. It's called Mrs Sid Who Investigates. And it was actually a Radio 4 comedy drama. I don't know if any of you heard it on there. But very rarely does a series move from radio to television. So when the lovely team that made it said, we're going to try and get this on telly, I thought, yeah, OK, see you soon. And then in two years time it happened which

was remarkable um so it was devised by a lovely guy called Sukh Pannu who used to write for um the Kumars as well yeah and it's about a middle-aged Indian widow called Mrs Sidhu and you never get to learn her first name interestingly who is a caterer and sort of falls into private detecting only because in her first case somebody from her family is involved and she gets drawn in. But she suddenly realises she's really good at this because why wouldn't she be? She's an auntie and we're

nosy. And aunties, you know, everyone's got those aunties. They know everything about you. They just look at you and go, you're pregnant, aren't you? I'm not actually. Are you? know everything about you they just look at you you're pregnant aren't you are you what's an excuse i told you i'd ovulated i said i had sorry but yeah so yeah because i grew up with a lot of these incredible matriarchal women who, you know, were shoved into roles they probably didn't want. They had so much more potential. But what they were brilliant at was reading people and keeping secrets.

And, you know, much better than a lot of the men were. And what is more invisible than an old brown woman, frankly? So you can get into places that other people don't. And because she's a brilliant cook she gets secrets out of people merely by feeding them some of her delicious food and they tell her everything um so it was just it was really joyous um because it's a little tongue in cheek but it just had so much sort of wit and warmth about it. And, of course, surrounded by food every day on set, which also was very nice, I have to say.

Do you actually get to eat it? Yeah. Do you? Yeah, and we had some fantastic chefs helping us, you know, helping me, like, you know, you chop like this. This is what a professional cook chops like. I mean, I've been doing it wrong for years. But also to dress the food and all of that.

And you've got to, I think I once ate 14 croquembouches on the same day. It was lovely. Deal. Yeah, I know. It's going some. It's going some. Is the croquembouches that great big? Yeah, they're like profiteroles, caramelised profiteroles,

full of just yummy creme pat and things like that. Honestly, the things you talk about, you grew up in the Midlands, you can't have dreamt of a life where you'd be doing that for a living. The things you talk about, you grew up in the Midlands, you can't have dreamt of a life where you'd be doing that for a living. Tell us about the most sophisticated aspect of your adolescence in the Midlands. My most sophisticated? Yes, when was the first time you, was it the Wimpy opening? What was it?

Oh, gosh, so many things in Walsall, what can I tell you? Well, a coffee bar opened in Walsall in my teens. And me and my best friend, Katie Mills, who's still my best friend, thought we'd go off and have a coffee because that's what you do. We felt young. We were exciting. We're going to have a coffee in Walsall. It's the first coffee bar. So we go in very excited, sit at the table. Waitress comes over. Hello, can I help you? And I said, can I have a cappuccino? And she said, what's a cappuccino? Well, early, what's a cappuccino? Well,

early days. Early days. It's fine now. You can get very good things in Walsall. This was some years ago. I do remember the first time I ever ate a prawn was in the Greek Acropolis restaurant near the bus station. And I felt pretty damn sophisticated then, I can tell you.

Was it a big prawn or just the small prawns? It was a prawn cocktail. It was the 70s. It was a prawn cocktail. There's that great Victoria Wood line about prawns. I've heard they're aphrodisiacs and the other woman says, I wouldn't put it past them. And that's... I steer clear of them myself. Don't go near them. So were you from a sort of showbiz,

is it all theatrical in your childhood home? What was it like? Oh, gosh, no, no. No, my dad was an accountant and my mum was a teacher. That's very boring, Mira. I'm sorry to hear that. Yes. Well, actually, my dad was an accountant, but he hated it.

He was a philosophy graduate. I mean, God knows why he thought anybody in Britain wanted a recently emigrated Indian man with a philosophy degree. But that was him. He was this beautiful dreamer. But he did accountancy, and he frankly probably hated it. But what he did do, he had these very famous musical evenings, and that's really what he was good at he was a wonderful singer and he was offered a bollywood contract when he was young but my granddad didn't let him take it up because he was a communist and didn't believe in all that bourgeois

crap like movies so just as well you never found out what happened to you then so were your family very supportive of your desire to tread the boards, etc.? Yeah, I think once they got over it, I mean, actually, really unusually, I think, for South Asian parents at that time, because obviously all the Indian kids I knew were doing sensible subjects like medicine, accountancy, pharmacy, law. Even if they didn't want to, that's what they were pushed to do and I think I was the only one of all of our friends' kids that did anything vaguely

artistic and was allowed to but it was an easy choice for my parents because I was so one-sided I was really so bad at maths and science, so bad that it would have been I would have killed people if I'd become a doctor. It would have been bad for the world. So they said, you can see that you're good

at English, you're good at languages. I didn't study drama, but that came later. But they let me, I think because they understood what it was like to have thwarted dreams and ambitions because they had many of their own that they couldn't fulfil. They didn't want to do the same thing to their child. And that, I think, was a very loving, wise thing to do. Can we talk a bit about your campaigning as well? Can you tell us, and don't put yourself down and say this is down to someone else who we all know, the House of the Eyes, what were they and why did they need a blue can never say it

plaque or plaque plaque plaque ah okay well yes I mean I'm going to have to name check the wonderful Anita Arnard-Dantai who's a very dear friend of mine and a brilliant broadcaster and historian and if you haven't heard her podcast Empire or read any of her brilliant books like Sophia about Sophia Dullip Singh please do and I've done her plug she's paid me I've done it yeah um but yes um the house of the Ayers got a blue plaque quite recently and the Ayers were Indian nannies that um were employed by British families who were members of the Raj, East India Company mainly, who brought their Indian nannies back with them when they came back to England.

But what a lot of them did was, as soon as they got to England, abandoned them because they didn't need them anymore. And so these women were basically left to starve. And a charity mission noticed that there were these abandoned Indian women wandering the streets and started up a mission to look after them. I mean, slightly double-edged sword.

You know, you had to convert to Christianity to enter the mission, but still, it was better than starving. I mean, slightly double-edged sword. You know, you had to convert to Christianity to enter the mission, but still, it was better than starving. But it's one of those wonderful slices of hidden history that... I mean, I think Anita saw the same picture I did, where you're leafing through a history book, and there was this really arresting picture of a whole row of women that looked like me in crinolines, looking very solemn writing on

blackboards with a sort of teacher at the front and it's Aya's home Hackney and I thought what the heck what is that and yes it was there for um I think 80 odd years um so that very home has now been given a blue plaque there's a there's's plenty of now literature about that place. But those kind of nuggets really mean a lot when you discover them because you want to know that your presence here didn't just start in 1960. And because this stuff isn't taught in schools, you have to find out these hidden bits of history yourself to remind yourself all our histories are really braided

and that we have been a huge part of British history and vice versa it's been a long and tangled relationship but we shouldn't be erased from it so celebrating all of those things is really important I think and what about, we were talking earlier about how we wanted to try to celebrate

tonight and it is it can seem desperate the current situation when we talk about violence against women and girls, women's safety, any number of global nightmares largely impacting very negatively on women and girls as well. Ukraine, I mean, Lord knows what's happening. We don't really know what is happening in Ukraine, truth be told, I suspect. Probably we're all better off not knowing, if we're honest. But what would you point to as a genuine improvement in women's lives

over the course of your lifetime, for example? Can I just say I've discovered the wireless bra? Yes, you can. Yes. In fact, I'm wearing one now. I literally opened some new ones today. It's changed my life. I mean, especially if you're... Don't you find that everything just goes kind of into one...

Uniboob. Yes. Yes. Sometimes, it depends on the angle you're at, but I have found a very good one. I know that sounds a bit trite, but actually the bigger picture is, you know, I love it that when I see young girls out,

they're all wearing boffa boots and sneakers, heels are gone. I mean, all that stuff that we used to squeeze ourselves into and makes ourselves... No, they're very sensible, but I'm thinking about some of the stuff that you used to feel obliged to squeegee yourself into that, zip yourself into that, teeter on this. No, we wear stuff that's comfortable

and we can run in and young girls are celebrating that and I love that. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I agree. Let's put up the spotlights of doom on the microphone. Start trampling over people you're sitting next to in order to get to the microphone.

Now, we had two very impressive young women in the first half, so I'm going to throw it open to the more mature individual in the second half. Do we have somebody moving to it? Yes, we have someone moving to it. Oh, we do? Yes. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Should we go this side first? Yes, this time.

Just to say that's a lot of stairs. Sorry. Very impressed. My name's Eloisa Tovey. I'm actually a UN delegate at the CSW 67 this year. Oh, wow. And what's really brilliant about it is the real conversations. And what I tend to find...

So I probably aligned myself to a feminist about five years ago. And I definitely went for that thing of being like it's a taboo word, don't want to touch it, don't want to go anywhere near it. And over time, that has changed. And I think my question is

it kind of came up earlier about this idea of male, like men rights. And I hosted a panel discussion at work yesterday, and I felt the need to say, when we talk about women today, we're not ignoring men. And there's always that counterbalance, but when men talk about rights, they don't seem to feel the need to also clarify we're ignoring women.

So my question is, do you think the media is responsible for trivialising feminist issues into such a way that it ends up being them versus us, and men feeling the need to say things such as not all men, and to clarify that men experience things too? Does that make sense? Yeah. Thank you very much for that. APPLAUSE

What would you say about that, Mira? Yeah, I think there's a certain amount of that, but that's also because everything's so polarized and click-baity, isn't it? I think whatever makes a headline that people will jump on and go, I don't think that at all, or I completely disagree with you. It's like whatever... Most issues get boiled down to to let's start a heated debate and it's not always the best you know the subtleties get lost the context gets lost

often and does that make you fearful of joining in because yeah so do you do social media do you not bother I am on Twitter and I'm on Instagram and Instagram is much more friendly and mostly pictures of cats actually which I like very much and I really do think before I tweet always because it can be

so misinterpreted and there's no forgiveness and there's no shades of subtlety. And you've got to be so careful. I don't think Twitter is the place to debate something as big as that. No, it definitely isn't. We do live in an age where the biggest issues are being so utterly trivialised,

and the current government's obsession with these three-word slogans this week is, Stop the boats. Could we try, Your Bum? Yeah. Yes, the lady over there. Thank you. By the way, thank you very much indeed for your question. Thank you.

Hello. Meera, I was so inspired by what you were saying about stories and humanity. I'm doing research into how young people of colour feel about the representation of their ethnicity in the literature that they read in school. So as one of the only writers of colour on the curriculum at the moment, I wondered how do you feel like we can fix that problem so that all young people feel inspired by the literature they're reading? And if I can have a part two to my question, I wondered

what books all of you were inspired by as you were growing up? Great question. It's Anita and Me is your book that's on the curriculum, isn't it? It is, yeah. My first novel, semi-autobiographical. How do you change that?

Honestly, it's really simple. It's to offer those range of experiences and put them on the curriculum. It doesn't always mean teachers will choose them. That you can't do. But at the moment, there just aren't enough diverse voices that are studied. And also, I just think... I mean mean I don't think it's just literature I think history I think the way that we teach history needs to be

looked at as well and I just and then I was recently visiting um my daughter in New York and we went to the Natural History Museum which which we've always loved. And some of the exhibits there are 200-odd years old. And there was one huge one which showed the first white settlers meeting the first Native Americans. And it was a very nice tableau and it all looked really friendly. And you think, uh-huh.

And what was really interesting is that they had a big notice saying, this exhibit is 200 years old. We understand that this is only told from one point of view, so let us tell you the other version of this. This Native American woman in the background was the matriarch of the tribe and probably would have been standing at the front here doing all the negotiating. And they unpicked each bit of that tableau but they didn't take it down.

They left it there so people could see that there were two sides and there was an unwritten bit. And I think we need that approach to literature and history. We find the other parts that we haven't talked about and we have both coexisting. Yeah. Thank you. And what are you reading at the moment and what inspired you when you were younger

was that also part of your question yes oh gosh I read so much I really loved Alice in Wonderland actually just because it was like an acid trip not that I'd take an acid but I just loved the surrealism of it, and I found there was a freedom in that

that really appealed to my imagination. And probably quite traditionally, the book that really affected me and changed me, and I read it at the right age, I was 13, was To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee, because that was really the first time that I suppose I was aware of the other side of racism, the root of it, that it wasn't just about hatred, it was also about fear and that made me feel stronger, that the people that hated me were also scared of me and scared of what I had and that was

a really powerful position to be in so that and of course I fell in love with Atticus Finn she was still my ideal man so um yeah I loved that book can I just share sorry my son's called Atticus so that means a lot to me that's your favorite that's brilliant can we just briefly end with something hugely positive which i think probably will unite everybody in this room which is that one of the fabulous things about being female is the strength of female friendships and you are still best mates with the katie the woman you mentioned i am i am you went for a cappuccino or tried to go for a cappuccino yeah how amazing we've been mates for 50 odd years and it's one of, I mean, we don't,

she still lives up in the Midlands, so we don't see each other that often, but it literally is. I can call her up, and we haven't talked for three months, and I go, hello, and she'll go, yeah, and anyway. And just pick up from what we were talking about three months ago. But there is something very precious about,

I don't know, we were first year of senior school when we met each other so someone that's been on your journey with you through first falling in love first boyfriends going to university getting married then divorced miscarriages bereavements the whole thing that you've been through at our age now we've we've been through that together and that's rather wonderful. Yeah, and it's wonderful. It's not unique. I bet lots of people in this room have got a similar friendship and they are absolutely not to be sniffed at. Well, who's come with a friend? Who's come with a friend? Yes, great. Okay. I go to work with a friend. No, but let's just put that in our womanly locker

and just enjoy the strength of our friendships with each other. And, Meera, such a great privilege to have you with us tonight. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for giving up your time. That was Meera Sayal, a writer, an actor, singer, a comedian. She's done the lot, and you can catch her series very soon on Alibi, in which she investigates some very sinister sounding crimes.

I love the name Alibi. What a fantastic name for a TV channel. I think one that is dedicated to shows with a detective bent. It's brilliant. Doesn't get much better, does it? It's absolutely brilliant. So it was a lovely evening. If you came along then, thank you very much indeed.

And if you asked a question when we were there, thank you too, because the spotlights were harsh. And maybe we'll do it again sometime. We'd love to hear your thoughts, anything that we were talking about with either June or Mira. It's the usual address, even though this is your bonus ball edition. It's janeandfie at times.radio. And you can leave a review of the podcast wherever it is that you're listening

to us right now, I've never really understood why that's so important but it is isn't it well yes as long as you don't write utter shit and getting worse, which wouldn't be good would it no that's very true so please don't do that, just in the spirit of

womanliness please don't do that but have a lovely weekend. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can.

Monday to Thursday, three to five on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon. Goodbye. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening.

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