Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Looking for my corduroy, wondering where my trilby has gone.

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

'Your chance to enjoy again' has arrived. In this 'best bit', we hear from comedian Tom Allen and presenter Sara Cox.Jane and Fi will be back after the bank holiday on Tuesday the 27th. See you then!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hello and welcome to Off-Air. We are your emergency summer picnic hamper this week, where we're providing you with some of the best of the last six months or so, because we're actually away on our holidays and maybe you are too. Enjoy. So Tom Allen came in to see us. He is such a busy guy. He's got a new show on Virgin Radio on Sunday afternoons. He's also currently on tour. He's come to the end of the latest of the Bake Off Extra Slice at the end of last year, and he's now filming The Apprentice, You're Fired.

He's written two books over the last five years as well. One of them he really mentions in this interview. And he had just been to a very, very top-level meeting at an incredibly posh hotel, the Regis Hotel in London. So he started the interview by asking if that was why he was dressed in the finest jumbo corduroy

suit. No, I wore the cord when I wore a suit because I know full well if I don't wear a suit people will say, oh, you're not wearing a suit. So I've made a rod for my own back there, but I do like wearing suits, so it's fine. It's not every man who can get away with jumbo cord. Traditionally, I associate it with those pink trousers

you see in certain parts of London. Very Michael Portillo. Yes. Well, no, it's not you, is it? Because you've always been very honest about, well, very devoted to your roots, which are not aristocratic, are they? No, I'm an absolute fake. And I...

I like that about you. Yeah, I'm from a very normal background. But I had this aspiration to be somehow fancier than I deserve to be. And so I've sort of lent into that. And I turned 40 last year. And, well, I've just realised you have to embrace it, don't you? You do.

And also because in a public kind of facing position if you're faking it somebody these days will come along and say won't they yes you may as well well my dad always said the world takes you at your own valuation so it's a good saying isn't it so if you kind of if you apologise for yourself people will

people will doubt you so you shouldn't. I totally agree with Jane just about how dapper you are as a person. Thank you. But tell us about the least dapper outfit that we might find Tom Allen in outside of work and the public environment. Well, that's a very personal question. I know that's exactly the sort of scandal

that you like to report here on Times Radio but I will let you in I will say when I'm doing the garden I have been known to wear a pair of joggers and maybe even maybe even some sort of plastic sandal of which there are many brands

one is synonymous with crocodiles another one is I think it's called Town and Country my partner bought me a pair you get them in the garden centre they're awfully comfortable okay so something has gone very badly wrong with buying your clothes at the garden centre

I know what who knew who knew they had any they even had a wardrobe department but if you're looking for something maybe a kneeling pad to do your bulbs or maybe somewhere to you know maybe a warming gilet or a patterned sandal to wear for gardening, then they've got you covered.

Well, you really are embracing your fifth decade now. You're visiting garden centres. I love a garden centre. Give me a tray, I want to get in line at that self-service cafeteria. And maybe buy, I don't know, maybe some sort of birdhouse or one of those watering cans that looks slightly ornate, that sort of thing. Or a terrarium. I like a terrarium now. You know, I'm 40. But to be honest, even as a small child, I felt like I was about 46. So I'm just coming into my own now.

You're going to so enjoy the next couple of decades, aren't you? Well, if I make it through them, I can't wait. Yeah. Can we talk about your tour, which you're in to talk about? I was going to say, I was going to just check the email. Just checking why you're here. What are the key messaging bits I'm actually doing? I think we want people to go and see you on your tour, Tom. You're on tour and your tour is called Completely.

And the spring dates have been added due to demand, I'm reading from the piece of paper here. Oh, he doesn't need the publicity, though. Well, you know, a lot of them have sold out, so I don't mind. I don't mind. You can talk about what you like. What's in the tour? What's in the stage show? What would make people come and see you? Well, I like to think I give them a good old fun time.

And we do have a laugh, and I feel very lucky to have a laugh with people all around the country. But essentially I'm talking about the fact that I feel like I'm finally an adult at the age of 40 because after a long time of living with a couple called Dad and Mum, I finally got my own place. And all the trials that that

presents, like buying a mattress, why is that so complicated? People want to ask you how many springs do you want? Well, I don't know. At least two. Give me half a chance, I'll sleep on a slinky. But, you know, all these things. Bin day. Very complicated.

Oh, don't get us started on bin day. Oh, I bet that's a hot topic with you. Well, very much so, because we're very hot on things like that. But in a same-sex relationship, presumably that dynamic of domesticity and so-called girl and boy jobs, is it very different? Well, we know Theresa May and Philip. That much is true. I felt like, though, my partner does tend to do the bins. Don't know why, he just likes it.

But then he does the ironing as well. But then it's 2024, isn't it? Oh, very much so. You mix and match. So that leaves the cooking and the wiping and the dusting. Well, we do have a little bit of help with that. My friend and housekeeper comes in to do a lot of the wiping because it's things like the crevices, isn't it?

It's the crevices. It's the corners. It's the indentation on the kitchen cabinets. It collects a lot of dust. And so I couldn't do that on my own. Not with my knees. No, of course not. How has it changed your...

Buffing a work surface as well. Sorry to interrupt you like that. That was very abrasive of me. I beg your pardon. This had better be good. Yeah, it really had better be good. Keeping a work surface shiny when you've got like a shiny work surface,

I don't know how people do it. I don't know how people do it because it's exhausting. I'm constantly with my buffing cloth and my spritzer to try and get it shiny, but someone touches the work surface, it's got a mark on it. I have to do it all over again.

Well, get a matte work surface. That would be better. You can't. You can't these days. Is that wrong? Like a butcher's block? Yeah. I've got a wooden work surface,

so you don't have that problem. Really? Yes. You have to disinfect it quite a lot. I was going to say, you have to disinfect that. Look, it was a big question that was coming that you tried to head off at the park.

I sound like a politician. Is it about world peace? Buffing anecdotes. Oh, no. No, it was just about your changed relationship with your parents, if you had been living with them well into adult life. Well, one of them has really changed because he died, so that could have changed more. That does change a relationship, doesn't it?

But he is... Sorry. No, no. When did your dad die? Today. Oh, Tom. Tom. No, don't. No, don't. sorry no when did your dad die um um today and oh Tom no

no uh two and a half years ago okay right um so I'm not going to ask that question then because it might be rather painful

no no it's fine I wrote a book about it and I came in here to talk about it okay that's even worse but then when I did arrive you did say to me oh it's nice to see you, we only met once over Zoom.

So, you know, I'm glad I'm here today is what I'm saying. Look, it's International Women's Day this week. That doesn't make sense. It can't be a day or week. Yeah, it's a day or week, so you've just got to be nice. Yes. Oh, I'm always nice. You don't have to be nice. I'm always nice. Can we talk about what it was like to live at home

with your dad and your mum for quite some time? Presumably throughout your 20s and 30s you were there. Most of that, yeah. Were you a cuckoo in the nest or did they actually want you there? Good question. Probably not best answered by me because of course I will always say yes, they were thrilled.

But I think looking back there were probably times when me stomping around you know, looking for my corduroy wondering where my trilby had gone that was probably a lot for them when they were just trying to enjoy their retirement and I was sort of like

well, why do we have to have plates like this? I don't like these plates why don't we have platters? why don't we eat in a Mediterranean style? let's fire up the barbecue tom it's december what are you talking about no i want to live this fabulous nigel slater life that i've read about in the sunday supplements and um in truth i was probably unbearable yeah but you know i've monetized it now i was my my own children uh show no uh desire whatsoever to leave home

which is which i'm glad about and And in a way, I tell myself, well, it keeps me in touch with the young. So maybe your mum would say that. Would she? Well, we have always had a close relationship, so I feel very lucky like that. Some people don't get on with their parents at all. So I do feel like, actually,

we've always been very close. And there's something nice about that. If you can get along, I feel like that's the way it's always been as well for human beings. My mum's family are, part the from mayo in ireland and you know people will live in one house and then they'll buy the the like daughter will buy the house next door but one along the road and people are always in and out of each other's house and i think that's quite nice um if you can make it work and i'm sure at times it does drive you a little to distraction

but at times if you can make it work it's great I think human beings are naturally good at being around other human beings I think it's good for us The radio show, you're now on Virgin Sunday afternoons, have I got that bit right? Yes, no absolutely you've got everything right

it's just the status of my father whether he's alive or dead. Yeah. I mean, it was a big thing for him. I don't know. Obviously, it's a big thing for you too. Obviously. What's the mood on a Sunday afternoon?

Because, you know, the kind of the classic thing on radio of old has been to go quite kind of soft and fluffy and cosy. Oh, no way. No way. Any of that straight out the window. I come in the afternoon at 12.30 to 4. And I think Sunday afternoons, you need a bit of energy. You want people to feel like, oh, I'm part of something here. Oh, so I'd like to tell anecdotes about my week.

And we have people texting in. And we often look at neighbourhood forums. That's been quite a nice feature. People get very angry in suburbia, anecdotes about my week, and we have people texting in, and we often look at neighbourhood forums. That's been quite a nice feature. People get very angry in suburbia, maybe using the Nextdoor app or a Facebook forum. They get very angry about bins, about dog food being stolen, about... Packages missing from the doorstep. Oh, they love that.

And my all-time favourite, suspicious youths. Oh, always suspicious youths walking around, scouting out the area. I think it's just somebody who's put their hood up and they go, right, well, that's obviously terrifying. We need to talk about that. And so we often talk about that and laugh at it. Do you have people who are on groups where their neighbours are offering them bits and pieces?

My friend calls that, when people leave stuff at the end of the driveway, my friend calls that street tapas Brilliant Absolutely brilliant Yeah Because there are a couple of those

in our street and currently going if anybody wants it is half a bag of dark grey grout You know what you might need it Can you get that?

I certainly can You'll need it Yeah It's handy I'll pick it up for you The tiles in the shower could do with a bit of dark grey grout

Well it doesn't show the mould does it That's the thing about a dark grout. But that's a lovely thing, isn't it? That kind of neighbourhood. Oh, I thought you meant grouting. Yes, it is lovely. I've got a feeling that you probably can't sustain a conversation about grouting.

Oh, we'll try. Let's keep going. Well, I mean, listen, we're all looking for content in this day and age. Well, my brother is a tiler. Oh, who would have thought it? So we have bags of the stuff. We've got bags of stuff in the family. So if you need any grouting, let me know.

Tom's your man. Interesting. Can you tell us about your new TV show? This is My Big Gay Wedding. Oh, yes. I mean, there's a clue in the title, but what is it about, Tom? Well, probably from that title, it sounds a bit more like some sort of Saturday night entertainment

show. In truth it's a documentary. First time I've ever made a documentary and it's celebrating 10 years of gay marriage being legal in England and Wales and and so I should say in this country because well no it's not well. We know what you mean. And

and so it's been lovely to see how far things have come and to look back at 10 years ago and how different things were actually and I think we should never take for granted that the changes achieved by people were quite profound and you look at sort of MPs in the House of Commons 10 years ago saying, you know,

marriage is the inalienable union of a man and a woman. It's always been that way. We can't undo that. It would be the end of society if we do that. And I suppose my feeling is that what it really meant was that it was saying to same-sex couples or gay people everywhere, like, you are allowed

to be part of society. Because for a long time we felt like we weren't. We were sort of, you know, outsiders in the cold. And I think it was the messaging behind it was so deep. So I was very proud to put together this documentary and explore the history of why it happened, how it happened. It was collegiate, really, across the party divides. So people from all different parties came together

to get it across the line, which I think is very impressive in these polarised times. But it did, and the fact that it happened, and I'm just going back to my adolescence, the fact that this came in under a Conservative government, or was it the coalition? It was the coalition. and I'm just going back to my adolescence, the fact that this came in under a Conservative government. Yeah. Or was it the coalition?

It was the coalition. Was it? Okay, still with a Conservative Prime Minister. It just seemed quite incredible. And I don't think we always honour just how much has changed here. Well, yeah, I think we interviewed David Cameron, actually, which was very interesting. And he said, the way he put it was,

he felt that they needed to right some wrongs. Because I put to him, well, you were the party of Section 28, let's not forget. And, you know, a lot of Tory values, I think, would not welcome gay marriage. And he said, well, I wanted, he said he wanted to right a wrong. I also spoke to Peter Tatchell, the wonderful activist, and he said he'd written to David Cameron, and he'd said to him, I think you should embrace marriage not in spite of being a conservative but because you are a conservative because marriage is fundamentally, you know, could be deemed quite a traditional

thing to do. And David Cameron did use that phrasing in his speech. So whether he read the letter or whether he came to it from his own. But would it be fair to say politically that it just wouldn't have happened without there being a coalition government? It was something that the Liberal Democrats can actually claim was a successful part of coalition.

Oh, I don't know. That's a good point. I mean, the Liberal Democrats, I think Baroness Lynn Featherstone would say it was something that was tabled by the Liberal Democrats. I think that all sides, what I learned from it as well, all politicians have their own version

and their own version usually involves them. So I would say that yes and no. It depends who you speak to, really. Yeah, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Do you know what I mean? I can't exactly what you mean.

I've not really spent that much time interviewing politicians. I'm not like you, you guys. And I found it quite interesting. They were all very, very generous with their time. Yeah. Well, in a way, they should be, because this is something that is positive.

Yes, for once. They can claim a chunk of something positive. That's no bad thing, is it? Well, I think they were all very proud of that. And rightly so. And they did, you know, a lot of them did put their neck out because it wasn't welcomed by everybody. And polls at the time did show that people weren't always completely in favour of it and that the idea of equality was sort of like well why well you know well fee and

i have both tried marriage and we're 100 behind the idea that gay people should be allowed the opportunity to get divorced further down the line exactly to be as miserable as straight people that's the only that's it to. Just a quick radio question to end on. Are your loos built very close to the studios or do you also have to run down a long corridor? Well, I'm glad you asked that because I love wearing my lanyard. I love a lanyard. Is it the first

time you've had a lanyard? I think so. I love it. I put it on things. I notice you're wearing it very proudly. I wear it all the time. I wear it on the train. I feel like it's my first day at school. And I love it, but it doesn proudly. I wear it all the time. I wear it on the train. I feel like it's my first day at school. Right. And I love it, but it doesn't give me access to the executive toilet. I think that's only...

Chris Evans. It's only Chris Evans, really, and very senior, high-level people. That's sort of en suite to the studio, actually. Never been granted access to that. I have to run round to the ones that are adjacent to the lifts. Okay. So I don't know if that helps you or makes it worse.

Well, it keeps us on a level with you because that's very much what we're having to do as well. But I don't think we even have an executive toilet here, do we? Well, officially, I don't think you have access to it, darling. Sorry, this has ended on an awkward note. Before we end, I just looked at the notes and

What are you supposed to be talking about? We're actually supposed to be talking about the apprentice you're fired. Okay, quick question. Hang on, let me just cough. Yeah. Oh, God! Sorry to sound so Victorian in your ears there. Yeah, that's quite all right.

How is The Apprentice You're Fired going this year? Actually, some of the contestants have come in for a bit of flack from day one, haven't they? Possibly not being Britain's brightest and best. Well, I always feel very protective of the... They're actually candidates, right? They're not contestants, they're candidates. I'm so sorry. Please, I get told off myself.

And it's a process, it's not a show. It's a process. Oh, honestly, Fi. I can't believe you didn't know that, Fi. And the thing is, I always say, well, yes, they do make mistakes, and I know that people love to point at them for that. But they are completely protected in their tasks.

They are not allowed access to phones and tablets and laptops to do lots of research like we all do all the time anyway. They can't phone friends to ask. They can't just make phone calls willy-nilly. They have to be quite, it's quite prescriptive. And also they're living in that house where they don't have much access to their family they have to stay in they're not allowed to go to the shops on their own so it's all very fair. So they really do live in that house? Yes yeah. For how long? Well it depends how long they stay in the process I think it's a few weeks. Well what's the maximum? I think it's like

I don't know but I think it's about six weeks. Okay. So I always sort of go well you know they're young people having a go. Yeah. And what I like about it as well is I think it's a show that the whole family likes to watch because like parents like to watch it with their kids, particularly their teenagers.

They're starting to think about the world of work. And I think, you know, young people, young people like to kind of go, well, maybe I'll be like that

when I grow up. I mean, I hate to disappoint them, but I don't know how much the world of work involves, you know, fun projects that last for three days. Yeah. And you fly to places. Well, what do you know about the world of work involves, you know, fun projects that last for three days. What do you know about the world of work?

What do I know? I've only just got a lanyard. Yeah, I know. I'm just thrilled about that. And do they have actual proper sized suitcases? Because it always makes us laugh that they've just got a tiny trolley kind of cabin. That's true, isn't it? Carry on. They can't have six weeks worth of pants in there. That I don't know.

If you could ask them, I'd be very grateful. I will ask them. I think, I feel like they might have another case, but probably not that much. Not that much stuff. Interesting. Well, you know, they like to wear, they're told to wear a bold pastel colour.

Are they? And I think so, given the fact that they always do. And I think they just, they make it work. Yeah. When they get up really, really early in the morning to go and meet Lou Sugar. Lou Reed. That's a show I'd watch.

Set your alarms and go and see Lou Reed. This week, Lou Sugar couldn't be with us but Lou Reed is going to cover for him. I don't know what happened. Okay, not to worry. I'm going to have to give a shout out to my friend Tim who is your biggest fan. I don't know what happened okay not to worry right Tom it's been lovely I'm going to have to give a shout out

to my friend Tim who is your biggest fan he listens he actually listens he actually listens right he loves this show is he incapacitated

he is he's very well good as far as I know when I last saw him and I know he will appreciate a shout out do you do shout outs

we do shout outs well a shout out to Tim then hello Tim there we go brilliant hello Tim, goodbye Tom right, Sarah Cox got her start hosting the girly show for Channel 4 she moved up to become one of Radio 1's leading lady lights

alongside Zoe Ball in the 1990s these days you can hear her on the Radio 2 Drive Time show as well as presenting BBC Two's book show Between the Covers. Now she's already written a best-selling memoir and a novel that did feature me and Jane as some rather doolally police officers and now she's published her third book it's called Way Back and it follows Josie, a middle-aged woman whose marriage comes to a natural end so she decides to up and move back to her old family farm in lancashire jane did this interview last week and she started off by asking sarah where she finds the time to write early

morning i guess is good yeah is it though how early all right so i mean the thing is we write in a book if I'm honest, is that it's just whatever you're doing, you're not writing. And that's the problem. So every other aspect of your life, whether it's hanging out with the kids or walking the dogs or up at my horse, I'm aware that I'm not writing in that moment. And does that make you tense?

Yeah. And basically, I've got at least seven new wrinkles with each book. So hopefully in a few novels time, I'll just be sat here like a little walnut with some blonde fringing on. But yeah, so my lovely friend, Annie McManus, who is one of my best mates, and she was like, I won't do the accent, but she's like, babe, you've got to write in the morning.

And then everything else is a treat. And she was like i won't do the accent but she's like babe you've got to write in the morning and then everything else is a treat and she was right so to write early doors for a couple of hours and then go and ride my horse and then go to the radio is a dreamy sort of way to do it lovely lifestyle it's very lovely the only bit that ruins it is that my arse is 28 minutes away on the m1 junction six uh so that's the only bit that's not quite as good. But it's good when I'm doing between the covers because I listen to lots of audiobooks on the drive, so that's quite handy. But yeah, otherwise, early morning is good.

And David Nicholls, who said to me, you know, author of One Day, obviously, said, get 1,000 words down a day. Is that the target? That's what he does. At least a thousand a day and even if you delete them all even if they're rubbish just do a thousand a day and that gets you into the rhythm So I know I'm obsessed with this but when you say

write early do you set the alarm for five? Is it half five? How early is this? Well I'll have to do a deal with my husband to get the teens up and out of the house so it's easier than when they were little they can kind of feed and wash themselves a bit now so i will do i will do a bit of a deal and maybe try and get pad down to i'm very lucky i've got an office in the garden that my husband works from and i'll go in there so anybody post-it notes and coffee and maybe do from sort of like six till eight or something okay i'm only asking this

because there are loads of people who think they might have a novel in them yeah but don't understand the practicalities and how you actually go about it so i think that's really good advice thank you yeah i think i think first thing your brain is much fresher and also there's something about the atmosphere that early in the morning there's that sort of secret world feeling where you're up before other people and you're being active and creative at that time. There's still a calmness about the day before everything grinds into action.

It might even be a bit earlier sometimes when I go in there. But I've heard of authors who are getting up at... who are going writing at 4am. Is it Maggie O'Fowl, I think? Yeah, I think it might be. Right, it gets up at half three. What's she ever done? I know!

Apart from a few incredible award-winning novels. Well, thanks to you, actually. I heard you talking about Maggie O'Fowl. I think you and Fi interviewed her. That's when I started my exploration into all her back catalogue. So it's her and John Boyne that I'm working my way through now. Okay, well, that's also a good tip because people love to hear what other writers love to read

and that's really significant. So Way Back is, it's a kind of, can I put it like, it's like a middle-aged woman's fantasy. Yeah, I'm living vicariously through Josie, aren't I? I've created a character that can do things that I can't. Okay, well, that's what I was going to ask. So what is it about, so I grew up in the northwest of England as well. Now I feel I'm rooted in London. But reading this, I was actually thinking, am I though? So tell me about your own feelings about what are you? Where are you from? Where

might you go? So I'm from Bolton, if you were to cut me open like a stick of rock, the North would be written through my very centre. But I've lived in London for longer than I ever lived up North. I've been down here for sort of 28 years now. And my husband's from Hampstead. I know, I did very well. I married up, basically. I dragged myself up. Don't say that. I'm joking, of course.'m married up basically I dragged myself up I'm joking of course you're

married up babe but um so I live in northwest London I love London it's my it really does feel like my home all my children were born in London but there is at my real core a need to to have more space and to get out of London and I would love I always thought out of the five kids I always thought I'd be the one who would end up farming or would be either have my own farm or farm with my farmer husband and you know I just thought I'd be making butters at hair making time and up in the lambing sheds and things and it never happened because I fell into this crazy business we go I'll show and that's gone really well touch wood thrilled but really I would love to have some space and a bit of land and have my horse on there that's kind of the dream and even more dogs and cats and furry things running around but I don't

know if it's going to happen it is I would I would love it to happen once the kids are bigger. So my youngest is 14. If she goes off to uni at 18, I'm kind of thinking in a few years, you know. I mean, if you were to thrust me in the middle of Cumbria on a proper working farm, I'd probably crumble within hours. I think it's, you always, you know, grass is always greener.

Yeah. Would you, do you think, be found out if you were to do the proper stuff? Yeah, I mean, I think if I was to go and like start a herd of Herefords, I think I'd find it pretty tough. Although they're very gentle cattle. Yeah, no, you sold Hereford cattle to me in the book. Have you got one now in your back garden? Yeah, you're thinking of a pig. I know, I do sell the pigs quite well in this.

They come across as lovely, caring, snuggly creatures. Yes, of course yes and I'm not that keen on bacon and I'm not keen on bacon now do you eat meat I do yeah yeah I do and I've had um you know I've been quite flexy over the years but I I do eat meat and I do you know I'm a big supporter of British farmers and um you know, because I feel like I grew up watching my dad and the respect that he had for his animals and the love that he had for them and how well they were cared for. It is, I was listening to a woman who's been organising a farmers' protest just very recently. Today, I heard her.

And it's tough for farmers at the moment, isn't it? Yeah, they're really squeezed from all ends, really. And it's a vocation. You don don't really unless you're landed gentry you can't really go into farming to make a mint you do it because you love it and it's in your blood or it's a passion of yours and um you know they do work incredibly hard and there's no you know you i heard someone say the other day that you know you you get up and you farm and you farm until the sun sets. And then it was like, and then some, do you know what I mean? Have you seen the headlights they've got on a combine now?

You know, they keep going until the job's done. Yeah. What was your dad's working day? Was it up at dawn's crack and then? Yeah, so he's never had dairy cattle. In fact, tell her, like, I think he had dairy cattle way before I was born, maybe in the late 60s. But he had Herefords and in the 70s he had pigs

and then I think the bottom fell out of the pig market in the late 70s. And it was the 70s, so he had hens, he had laying hens, they were battery hens. And I wrote quite a bit about that. In fact, that gets a mention in Way Back because her dad had hen sheds as well. And so it was full on. There's always something needs feeding,

something needs fixing. You know, there's always something that's ill. And it's a non-stop merry-go-round of toil if you're a farmer. But there's lovely moments in there, but it's really hard work. We don't want to pretend that radio's easy. I mean, I'm putting in a three-hour shift now. I know. It's tough. I mean, I get there.

Somebody fetches me a coffee, and I just think... But it's not always right, the coffee, is it? The tea here is bloody awful by the way uh so no we mustn't underestimate the sheer pain of it actually we just got to honor the fact i know you'll agree with me it's one of the best and easiest jobs in the world it's the best job in the world you can just crack on with it it's the best job in the world so we we don't for any we don't believe working in radio is hard let's just make that very clear so nobody snips out that bit you can use that okay i mean So nobody snips out that bit. So nobody can use that.

I mean, you get cancelled together, though. At least we can go out together in a blaze. Go down with Sarah Cox, that'll be all right. Yeah, you can take her off on a holiday. What I liked about this book, I liked a lot about it, but I love the fact that the couple who were splitting up at the very start, Josie's marriage is ending. Yes.

She's been with this fellow called James for quite some time. They've got a daughter. And there isn't an enormous amount of animosity. They have just, they've outgrown each other, haven't they? They've outgrown each other, yeah. And they've just, they've sort of fallen out of love. But they still love each other, but they're just not in love anymore. And they've just changed and grown apart.

So, you know, I feel like a lot of women find themselves in that situation. A lot of couples find themselves in that situation. And they've tried to fix it, but it's just, you know, the marriage is slowly just slumped off a cliff edge, like a cottage into the sea, I think they say. Okay, it's environmental damage. So do you think that's actually perhaps more typical? Because I've read loads of books where there's real rage going on

between the woman and the man and things are absolutely toxic beyond belief. But perhaps it's just more realistic to paint a portrait of a couple who could probably do all right without each other? Yeah, I think that's... I wanted to write a breakup that was a bit more amicable and a bit less dramatic and just a bit more what happens. Also, I needed a way for...

What happens with Josie in the book is that things are changing around her and she feels a little bit like she's treading water. So I needed a way of her being by herself. So the marriage ends, her best friend gets a huge work opportunity. Her daughter, who was at uni, is really flying the nest for good and is exploring the start of her career. And I feel like Josie has sort of stood there like,

OK, what about me? I'm a bit left behind. And we probably should say that she had given up her job, hadn't she? She was a high flyer. Yeah, and she's she's really brave josie i think i think she had a really she had a really tough childhood uh with a very tricksy mom her dad died when she was 12 and her life completely changed in that moment and in the in the weeks after his death and forever more and she got herself through university with no support and got a great career in finance and worked in New York. And then she found love with James.

And I think all of this is part of her running away from her past where she's like, ding, I have the career. No, I've got the successful great husband, the nice house, the child, you know. But what about me? Yeah, she threw herself into motherhood. And no, she's like... So there's parallels with me and Josie. But, you know, obviously I've never given up work.

I'm still schlepping around. No, but that... I mean, I haven't either, really, apart from a couple of... I mean, I'd go crazy. I'd go crackers if I didn't work. I think I would. But you might, and I don't want you to know names, I know you won't, but you must know women around the Hampstead area

who are in exactly Josie's position. Yeah, I do, and actually one of my best friends, and she wouldn't mind me saying this, she stopped, she got a great degree, she was all set up for work in the finance industry, and she stopped for her three kids and she brought her three kids up. Now, I met her when our youngest,

I mean, our youngest are now 14, 15. And I met her when they were about four or tiny. And she credits me a little bit with inspiring her to start her career again which she did she went into charity work and now she has got an amazing job um in investment banking now her kids are at uni and at college yeah because she's gone back to that and that did inspire a little bit with Josie like how does that feel in fact I actually messaged her a couple of times going if you did go back what would you do you know to try and work it out but she you know I think a lot

of women do that and that's great it's just I wasn't really I wasn't financially in a position where I had um a husband supporting me really and I also think you know when you're in a job that like we say is creative and enjoyable then there's a whole different kettle of fish yeah and I was listening to you on the day that the death of Steve Wright was announced, and I thought it was a really tough, that was a tough one for you, wasn't it? And it must have been for everyone.

Yeah, it was awful. I mean, it was awful because we're on air, and I knew a little ahead of time, literally by an hour, and we had to, because obviously we then had to change our show from when the news was going to be announced at five o'clock I'm on air from four so we had to change all the music we got Anthony in who's Steve's producer known for years and he came in and told us all of Steve's favorite songs the artists that he absolutely loved that he'd interviewed countless times so we got all the music ready and then I just wrote in my phone a few words and it was a real in those moments it's

it's hard to describe you don't say it's an honor because that that sounds silly but you do want to be there for your listeners and you wanted I wanted to do Steve proud as well so I just wanted to do a good job and to hold it together. But make no mistake, we were all absolutely shook. And I think we all, I think we're all still processing it. And we all keep remembering that he's gone because he was such a huge part. But he wasn't, he wasn't a close personal mate of mine. I didn't have his mobile.

A lot of the DJs did. They've said that. I didn't, I was the same as the listeners, where we've been part of our lives for so long, like from when we were in the cars, you know, in the car as kids, and then driving our own kids around, like for generations. And, you know, I was on air and there's people, and there's people hugging outside the studio, and there's people crying, and, you know, it was really,

it was a really awful day. We were completely, you know, winded by it. We, nobody, we weren't expecting it at all. No, and there is that, I mean, funny enough, I had a feeling, I must have been on holiday or something quite recently, on a Friday afternoon, and I thought, oh, Friday afternoon. It's serious, and then I went, oh friday afternoon uh it's serious and then i went oh no but it isn't yeah i know oh which is ludicrous obviously i knew he died yeah but you

you're right you kind of keep remembering that thing where you keep going oh it's yeah you know same sunday love songs you know nine o'clock on a sunday morning and so you know it was just it was just it was just really it's just really sad because he was he was young he was young by today's standards so where um you are turning you're not 50 are you 14 i'm 15 december oh yeah that's a reassuring noise thanks babe listen i'm 60 in june come on forget it's a privilege. It's a privilege to get older because I've lost people who are younger. And you're right.

I wish more people said that. Yes. And I've gone through a stage where I now refuse to answer questions in magazines. When people read interviews in magazines, I'm sure lots of people know the reason why we have to do it is because we have to promote things. And often in your contract,

you've got to talk to this magazine and that, and you do interviews and you bang on about yourself and if i get asked about how i feel about turning 50 and about what bits of my body i mean back in the day they'd ask me my weight they'd ask me my measurements they'd i mean how triggering is that for people i mean it's ridiculous like it's like i'm a heifer being sold down the cattle sales are you joking so and now when and especially with female journalists well with both actually I will say do you ask that of men and when I've when I've said it to men they've been quite defensive and when I've said it to female

journalists this one woman went oh my gosh actually I don't think I do ask men as much about it and then one woman once went it was my actually it was my male editor who put that question in at the last minute about turning 50, how I feel. And the answer always is now, you know, well, firstly, I'm like, do you ask Anton Deck that? Do you ask Dermot that? Would you ask a middle-aged bloke, do you use Viagra? Yeah, exactly. That's the question, isn't it?

It's basically that. So I've lost people in their 40s. I know people who have left behind small children. And so it's an absolute privilege to age. And I'm thrilled to be turning 50 in December. I had a not 50 party December, just gone me fault. Did you? The 9th, which was incredible.

So I don't know what I'll do for my 50th, yeah. I had a Dolly Parton impersonator. It was amazing. Oh, did you? Yeah, she was incredible at least four at least four people she's called um she's called the dolly show she's the best one she's brilliant um and quite a few people thought it was the actual dolly parton thought i dropped a cool like two million on my party in my local pub yeah i mean that had been mate rates as well

wouldn't it congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with jane and fee thank you If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.