Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Missing the climax for fishcakes (with David Baddiel)

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

Happy hump day! Owners of France and Mytchett - or, as you know them, Jane and Fi - discuss Dongret, women in dungarees, how to tie a loincloth, and there's been a kilt sighting… Plus, comedian and writer David Baddiel discusses his latest TV show ‘David Baddiel: Cat Man’. We’re taking suggestions for our next book club pick! The brief is: books that deserve to be re-read. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Wednesday's podcast. I've got some sad news for you. Have you heard this? What? Best-selling novelist, Geoffrey Archer. Uh-oh. Has announced that his next novel, Adam and Eve, is going to be his last. Cool, bliming.

I know. He's quoted here in this article saying, I can't quite imagine putting my pen down for good. Jeffrey, put your pen down. We can see what you're doing. But I can think of no more fitting. to bring my novel writing career to a close. Well, certainly Adam and Eve sounds like a blockbuster, doesn't it?

Well, it's back to the days of Canaan Abel. That's what made him, isn't it? Oh, yes. It's described as a powerful story which weaves together love, betrayal and the stark realities of a world at war. I hope it's got the fresh fruit in it, Jane. Yes, indeed.

Well, look, he's a multi-multie. He's a cheeky chap. No, I don't like to see a picture of him because, as you know, we've had contratoms during our time and did I just exit the studio when you interviewed him? I do find him properly

triggering but it was on this podcast when Louise Minchin was sitting in where we talked about the fact we both had the same experience with him where as younger women he'd made us cry and neither of us had that experience

at any other time with anybody else, no, well with anybody else in what would have been a combined you know, 25 years of interviewing people and I felt a little bit comforted by that. Well, he's putting his pen down for good.

Or rather he is. Have you read his books though? And you've got to say yes because you went to eat him. Yes, that's right. You read that one. I think I read, I read Canaan Abel and I think I read prodigal daughter. Was that the one about the woman who became American president?

I don't know. I mean, it's highly unlikely. Anyway, yes, flights of fantasy that Geoffrey takes. Yeah, well he's done incredibly well for himself, isn't he? Brought pleasure to millions. And let's join Melanie, who is in Chichester. And she just wants to know if she's the only member of the hive who shouts things like this at the television.

You're not alone, but I do like her turn of phrase. Tattoos and ageing skin, a truly hideous combination. Now, what do you actually shout at the television there? You just shout, that's a truly hideous combination. I don't know. I'm intrigued by tattoos and older skin. I want to see some pictures. Here's something else she shouts.

You look like an overgrown toddler. Women over 50 should never wear a t-shirt with a slogan. This is Melanie. It's not me talking. What about that? What do you think? I don't mind the t-shirts with slogans. I think the thing that makes women look like toddlers, dungarees. I don't think dungarees on a grown woman.

or a look. Well, it worked for the Walton's. Oh, no, I think it was just the men who wore dungarees in the Waltons, wasn't it? Anyway, get a grip, gentleman. She shouts when it's January and she sees a man wearing shorts. Yeah, well, she's right there, isn't she?

I mean, not just on television. Oh, incidentally, and it's almost like it was meant to happen, striding purposefully towards the tube station, being obviously very careful to make sure I didn't arrive before 9 a.m. this morning. I saw a man emerging from said station in a kilt. Oh, look, there you go. Yeah.

In West London, Brave choice this morning. It was wet, it was cold. It was quite a fetching kills. It was sort of purple. The dominant colour was purple. So it was a proper tartan? Yes, well, it looked like. I mean, I'm no ex-per, but it looked like.

And do you think that he, was he wearing the full kind of? Yes, he had a very smart jacket. Okay. Yeah. And he had the high socks with the ski and do tucked down them. Well, I don't know about that, but he certainly had the socks. I mean, January morning, Wednesday, West London. And where were you going, mate?

Anyway, there you go. None of my business. I've made it my business. You made it everybody's business. Another thing, we'll do a few more of these that Melanie doesn't like. Beards, grow on properly or don't bother, she shouts. How on earth do they sell razors nowadays?

Everyone is furry. It's disgusting, she says. And finally, you should have left it on the hangar love. I frequently yell at weather presenters on all channels. God, there are some truly hideous outfits. Who signs off on them? Melanie, I don't know. Well, Melanie, I'm glad you've got that off your chest.

Sometimes I feel that the weather presenters have not dressed for comfort, and I wish they would. Well, one feather in particular really does favour the very tight trousers. So tight. If something big happened in East Anglia, he wouldn't be able to point at it. It would be a massive rip. I don't know what the temperature is down those trues,

but pretty warm. Pretty balmy atmosphere, I would imagine. of a little bit of erration provided by the kilt. A temporary place in the sun is a very informative email that comes in from Donner. This is brilliant. Good morning from the sunny Gold Coast in brackets. Q Australian accent. Well, I'll just say good-day, Donna. Just about to leave for work, but I'm feeling compelled to share what may be the reason why nobody buys the carefully sourced properties that feature on such shows.

I have a friend who is ousted from her rental apartment for a couple of weeks, while the owner rented the property to one of these shows the production company moved in, episode filmed, grass looks greener, but it's all fake, fake, fake. I'm not sure this would be much of a surprise when we're talking about reality TV, but there you go, it wasn't even for sale. Isn't that naughty?

Well, I can't believe. We're not suggesting that that happens on a place on the sun. No, we're not. Or a new life in the sun. No, or escape to the sun, keep out of the sun, or all the other options. escape from my life. It doesn't happen at all. This was many years ago. At ease, everybody. At ease. If this is too much brutal truth-telling for one day, perhaps you might reduce the

dissonance in watching by assuming these things have changed since then. Best wishes to you all from a temporary place in the sun. Well, Donna. I was fascinated by that. And I mean, I wonder whether sometimes they are showing apartments that are rental apartments, just in the hope that somebody, be bonkers enough to buy them so they're not actually on the open market because the ones the really lovely ones you would have thought somebody just would have snapped that up ages ago well you i mean actually missed the climax of last night's episode because my fish cake was ready um i think climax is doing some very heavy lifting there just a couple of women who were looking some lovely properties and and i don't know they were they did they have to let me know

i don't know it's giving it an exciting cadence that sometimes as you know as previously mentioned. I don't have a great deal of things I'm as good as it gets. This is a secret scorer one for Francis. She said, Jane mentioned you'd listen to some podcasts on an investigation into the salt path book. What was it called?

It's called The Walkers. Okay, it's called The Walkers. You'll find it relatively easy, when you... Easily. It's very good. Yes. Very good indeed. It's made by a different empire. Shh, shh, shh, shh. It's called the walkers. Now, apologies from the US. I love this from Wendy, and I think we need

more of these things. Every Friday, says Wendy, I stand on a bridge over an interstate with a group of about a dozen people holding signs and banners opposing Trump's actions. I estimate the honking support from the traffic at about 60 to 70 percent. And this is Texas. At least half of us are horrified daily, sometimes multiple times a day, about what this administration is doing. I do believe the tide is starting to turn, although it may be too late. Everything now is so bizarre that I think all of us here are becoming a little mad as well. Like if your crazy uncle spends time at your house, the whole family gets a little bit nuts.

But as bad as things are for us, we feel terrible that the madness is affecting the rest of the world. We somehow made this crappy bed, but the rest of you shouldn't have to lie in it. Many apologies and wish us luck. Well, Wendy, we appreciate your apologies, but I don't think there's any need to apologise. And also, you are a democracy.

There's every opportunity for people to, if they feel a little sense of regret, there will be an opportunity coming up to use that regret. Midterms are in November, aren't they? Yes, if you do have Don Grette. Don Grette. Trump Grette. This is your chance.

And the P.S. I didn't realise that I no longer indented paragraphs or used double stops until you mentioned it. I tried indenting for fun. Crazy days, Wendy. And it looks good. You think her email looks good. It does look good.

It's perfectly indented. Yeah. And I like it, Wendy. I like it. We notice those little details. Thank you. Much appreciated. Kate says about 25 years ago,

my yoga loving husband went to a yoga class in Happy Clappy Bath where we live. I love Happy Clapy. Could you define that for our listeners outside the UK? Well, there's a little bit of toxic positivity going on in Happy Clappy, isn't there? Yes. It kind of means funky crystal adjacent. That part of England, Somerset, Glastonbury, it's all mystical and laylines and ancient Roman baths. I mean, beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

If you're outside England and you'd fancy a visit, I would highly recommend it. But nevertheless, it does attract a certain type of folk. Am I being unreasonable? Well, I think the laylines pull people towards it, don't they? That and a Babington house. at the celebrity meeting place that is at Bambington House. I've never been there. Have you been there? I have been there.

Oh, yes. It's got the most amazing swimming pool that's half in a barn and half outside. And, I mean half in a barn and half outside? So it starts in a barn. It starts in a barn. And then it goes outside. It's an indoor-outdoor pool. It's just remarkable.

And it's incredibly beautiful, really, really amazingly beautiful. and the overheard conversations are priceless, absolutely priceless. The perceived microaggression that all of these people feel are happening to them. And, you know, you look around and you think, but you're here. Yes. So you're not doing badly. You're whatever that is. You're okay. So they've got complaining about their macho latte or something. Well, very much so. And, yeah, and, you know, people have had a disappointing yoga class.

Well, let's rejoin Kate. we're back with Kate's husband he's at a yoga class in Bath 25 years ago in Venice I've always remembered that the instructor male would tell my husband to open his anal mouth whenever I drive past the sign

for Avan mouth on the M5 I think of it the M5 for listeners outside the United Kingdom is a popular motorway taking you down and indeed back from the south-west of England goes both ways Kate says, I wanted to show you my five pygmy goats.

You'll find them on my insta page, Goat Buster Chronicles. That sounds good. It does sound good. If you're looking for a little bit of cuddly diversion, I'm assuming they're cuddly, she describes them as adorable and so much fun to be around. Great pets, if you have the space. Well, not all of us are fortunate enough to live in your part of the world, Kate. But if you do have space, why not invest in a pygmy goat or two?

Why not? I'm very disturbed by the idea that her husband should have opened his anal mouth. I think that should just stay shut during a yoga class. Certainly during a yoga class. There may be times when you do need to. Let's not. Just temporarily back to world politics, this comes in from Marco. I'm just listening to your podcast from yesterday.

I wanted to share the following petition, which has really made me chuckle. It's the Help Denmark by California, because why not petition? Given the stresses of the news at the moment, this is a bit of very welcome, light relief. So this is Denmark attempting to alleviate what is a growing, disturbing cloud of doom and destruction coming Greenland's way. So this is the idea that if Trump's going to just buy Greenland, and I mean that was the plan 48 hours ago. It's now it seems to have turned into something more threatening. Then Denmark would just buy California. So it's all up for grabs.

Yeah. What would you, if you had the money to buy a, I don't know, a bit of land, a bit of real estate, or indeed a nation, which one would, which one would you go for? That's a very good question. I think if I was going to buy a nation, I would like to buy France. Oh, would you? Yes, I would like to buy France very much. I just like, I just like, I like their cheese. I like their access to fresh baked, daily bread. I like the way that they stand up to, you know, the, the, the big kind of tech companies. companies and stuff like that. And I can strike with the best of them. You can go on strike. I do know, I don't even at the BBC

about two weeks when I first went out on strike. Did you? Yes. It was because we were very angry about the imposition of a new computer system. So we walked out. Isn't that funny, actually, back in the day? So this would have been the same strike, actually.

It happened when I was at JLR, where we were called out because there had been a dick tap from the BBC that as radio journalists, you would be expected to become by media journalists and occasionally... Oh, no, that wasn't the same strike then. Use video equipment. And now you just think, oh my God, I mean, we're just in a soup of media, aren't we?

We're expected to do everything. Expected to do everything. Yeah. What country or territory would you buy? Well, I'm intrigued that you're planning to take over France. I have to say, old background. I think short people do well in France. Well, that's true. We've got more of a chance.

I mean, are you travelling at high speed again now, or are you still? Restricted. I'm so restricted. Don't laugh. Don't laugh. Why? No, no. It's just that you do move at such pace normally.

I'm going to stop doing that. It's not helped me. No. Well, perhaps it hasn't. But Macron yesterday in his aviator shades, I mean, only he could get away with that. If Kea Starmer attempted that, can you imagine the opprobrium that would rain down upon him?

Is that the right word? It is. But also, doesn't it make you? think it's weird that these world leaders don't get ill and get afflictions more often? I agree with you. I think that's a fascinating area because all of us pick up, particularly in midlife, colds, coughs, skin complaints, funny lumps you're not certain about spots that look a bit threatening, moulds that appear to be on the rise. And we're just off work. I think most people expect during the winter that at some point they're just going to miss a couple of days work because they've got the bug that's

going round. Yeah, but it's just not an option for any world leaders. Which makes Trump just an extraordinary individual well you know he is, you know this isn't praise, but he's just such a peculiar man. He's almost 80s. He seems to be permanently almost 80.

When is he 80 Eve? 79 now. RFK said that he was surprised he wasn't dead, given all of the diet and stuff. No, I really, can we, maybe somebody listening will know,

do world leaders have medical people, they probably do, they have medical people travelling with them the whole time to make sure that they take all the right vitamins. 14th of June.

The 14th of June he's a Gemini. A Gemini, you know that just off the top of yet, that's amazing. Well, I'm cancerian next week. But given the number of people that they're meeting

and hands, they're shaking and weird places they're in, and also the time zones that they just zoom through and then at the other end they're expected to get up and give a one-hour speech, I think it's remarkable. I'd like whatever it is they're having.

Yeah. All of which has given me time to think of somewhere I'd like to buy. Excellent. Because I couldn't think of it. And I think I'm going to go for that place in Surrey that was mentioned earlier in the week, Mitchett. Mitchett. Yes. I'm not buying a whole country life, just setting my sights. Okay. Relatively low. What will you do with Mitchet? Well, I'll turn it into a free-thinking paradise.

And I'll encourage men to only wear a loincloth. and women to permanently dress in whatever takes their fancy. Women can do whatever they like, but I will impose restrictions on men. Okay? Do you think that would take off? I think there might be some thoughts about that. For every person who's going to call that a progressive policy, there's going to be someone who calls it regressive. Would you know how to tie a loin cloth?

No, not what I've, no, because I've never won one. Would you? No, I don't think I would, but there's got to be some. some special knack. There'll be a place in Dahlston. There'll be a Saturday course where you can learn to tie a loincloth. Actually, I did give, and I just fess up to this, I gave my boyfriend for his... Not a loincloth. Even I were both braced, like, it's more than we are for. Yes. I might not tell the next day.

Okay. Well, that's left us all guessing. I'm just going to leave it. Because I've got a visual and vision. It's very funny at the moment. I sent him on a sourdough baking course, Jane, because we live in Dahlston. There's an awful lot of sourdough going down. He's quite interested in his cookery. It was a combined Christmas and birthday presents. So off we doddled on Saturday to go and do it.

It was expensive. Do you know what? It wasn't as bad as you might be imagining. Well, could you take away the loaf? To be. Yeah. Oh, God, so many loaves, bagels, buns, a starter. Another leaven thing that was a starter, a wicker basket.

I mean, the whole works came home. Came back with the whole caboodle. But he did say that he felt that he had done the middle-aged, middle-class Duke of Edinburgh Award. What was a good word? He should have been made to camp out overnight just with his sourdough. He said that everybody in there was basically on the same level, Duke of Edinburgh. So next stop, loincloths. Is it still going the Duke of Edinburgh?

Oh, well, we've got a new Duke of Edinburgh, yeah. So the new Duke of Edinburgh is Eddie, isn't it? Oh, I don't know. Isn't Edward the new joke? It wasn't, didn't he get, you would know, you're a royal correspondent. I should, I'm practically the royal correspondent. I think it is, I think you're right, but it's very unusual for you to be hopping in early with regal news

ahead of me, it is, yeah. By the way, Andrew, I can't remember, oh, Mountbatten, still not moved out, has he? That's still sort of pending. I can't wait for that to happen. God, do you think he might actually get evicted? Oh, God. How long do you have to wait for that?

I just need to say that the guest in the podcast is David Badeal, and he has made, he's a well-known comedian, polemicist thinker, and he has made these documentaries about cats. It's called Catman. It is sponsored by a pet insurance company, I think. And I've watched one and a half of the three documentaries. I couldn't take any more cat stuff, and I like cats.

So I've done some of it, but not all of it. But what I did love, and I genuinely did not know this in episode two, the cat equivalent of the Kennel Club, did you get that far? Yes. I love the fact that it's called the governing council, I've written down, the governing council of the cat fancy. Yeah. I mean, that.

It's just extraordinary. It's an interesting convention to attend. I'd quite like to go. Well, I took note, actually, there are a couple of cat shows coming up. So I don't know if you were, I mean, you could get, It probably be difficult for you to get the one in West Lothian, in Livingston in West Lothian, but it's on the 14th of February, so there's a bit of...

Valentine's Day, how lovely. Take your man, friend. Come on, he's suffered with his sad, of course. Now really treat it. To the short-haired and all-breed Cat Club of Scotland show. Okay. But a trifle closer to home for you on the 7th of February,

Bedford and District Cat Club are showing a bracknell. centre. Oh, Bracknell, leisure centre. So, but I did go on the website just to have a look, because I thought what Dora's, you know, a lot of people, before she bites and, you know, she people say, oh, isn't she pretty? And then she bites them or swings from their hair two minutes later and they go off her. But she's quite sweet looking until you know the truth. So I wonder whether I could show her. But it's very... Complicated. It's very serious. I mean, they do advise that before you show a cat, you visit a number of shows to sort of get the measure of the whole thing. So I don't really think I've got that. in me. No, I don't think you have either. But good to think for a moment that you could. Yes, thank you. But if you have

been to one of these cat shows, or indeed you're a regular at them, let us know what the atmosphere is like. I would love to, does it get a bit angsty? Oh, I'm sure it's highly competitive. Yeah. Yeah, the lady that David Bedeal interviewed has so many rosettes. So many. We did watch the whole of episode too, actually.

Oh, well done. Okay, right. confirmed cat lovers. Did you see the palace cats? No, I don't know. The wild, very fluffy wild cats that were in the animal sanctuary that they did the filming of the big lions and stuff like that too. Well, if I did see them, I'm afraid I've forgotten. Okay. The disturbing thing is that is Barbara's shape. I mean, the tail's the same, she's got the same great big paws and I wonder whether she hasn't, you know, nipped off for a little bit of interspecies love.

Well, I mean, what's... far back in her family. You could easily get to Bracknell on the 7th of February. I could. I could show Barbara. I can't show Barbara actually. She's got great big, very, very fluffy cat. She's got these great big kind of dreadlocks of fur around her bottom area.

They wouldn't like that. But you can't get near them. And I'm not going to take her to the vet to have sedated. I think that's too much. So I'm afraid she wouldn't pass muster at all. Your thoughts on that are, of course, welcome. Now, we've got a very serious email about Todd's. in a moment, haven't we? This is very serious. Something I genuinely knew nothing about. But I just want to

thank Sophie for her lovely image of her daughter, Imogen. Imogen was born in September of last year at North Middlesex University Hospital. And Sophie just says that she had a really positive experience there, actually. Lovely room. And after the birth, we were able to transfer to one of the birthing suites. It had a double bed and an on suite. Gosh. I don't know if it was just a quiet night at the hospital and I lucked out, but I just feel so fortunate to have had such a positive start to motherhood. Sophie, they do exist. Congratulations to you both. Imogen is an absolute cracker, wearing a beautiful, beautiful cardigan, which I think must have been, perhaps would that have been made for you by a relative? Yes, lovely, it looks absolutely lovely. It looks absolutely lovely.

Squidgey, squidgey, squidgey, very squitchy. Yes, that's Imogen, not the cardigan, which looks just lovely. Do you want to do serious tonsils or should you sing some theme tunes? Well, we could, Let's sing a few theme tunes before we move on to tonsons. So this is Sean in Caterham. Jane, I'm 61 so I can join you in remembering TV from those long summer school holidays in the 1970s, including Robins and Crusoe, with its lovely theme tune.

Now, could you remember the theme tune? I can't, but it was just lovely. Okay, that's helped me. I'm not musical enough. It really did make you think of being transported to a tropical island, which in suburban Liverpool was quite, something. It really, the waves lapping onto the beach.

Lovely. And then actually, he'd be in his loincloth. So perhaps that was why I was so interested in the programme. He was a particularly beautiful man. Anyway. In return, please tell me you can also recall the badly dubbed story of French musketeers, the flashing blade. Yes, that was terrible.

Okay. I'm far too young for all these things, although not white horses. Can you remember the theme tune? Well, that was... No white horse. that was also a thing of beauty. Just before we had TikTok kids. Black and white tales of Yugoslavian stables also dubbed.

Simple offerings in simpler times repeated endlessly from one summer to the next, but they knew how to write a cracking theme tune back then. They did, actually. They did, didn't they? Perhaps having failed to recall the Robinson Crusoe tune, you can take us further down this fascinating podcast, Golda Sack, by singing them. P.S. Champion the Wonderhors. Well, all together now. Champion, no wonder horse.

Although I would make a case, Sean, for Casey Jones being the best theme tune. Casey Jones, steaming and a rolling. I don't remember that at all. Casey was a driver of a train. Okay, that's completely passing by. He used to wear a little neckerchief, and he'd pose either the beginning or end of every episode with his elbow. jauntily poking out of his driver's cab. Okay.

Yeah. It's very innocent show. Worth revisiting? Probably not. Not for the Netflix generation, no. Okay. I think it was set in the Midwest. Do you remember Hong Kong Fu-I, number one super guy?

Oh, Hong Kong-Fourgoy, number one super guy. Yeah, quicker than the human eye, I thought. Yeah. But I don't know what it was about. It was about a janitor, wasn't it? Oh. Yeah. I think.

Anyway, back on tonsils. Eve has just literally left the room. Let's talk tonsils, go on. No, you do it. No, I haven't got it. Oh, okay. Well, we've got quite a few about tonsils. As your other listener dug in to get Jane to talk about our travel pass,

can I just explain that here in Scotland, this is Jill from Dunbar. We're entitled to our pass at 60, 6.0. And we can travel anywhere within Scotland. Disabled people and youngsters have other passes. So you could head up to Scotland, don't let us keep you, and you could just travel around the whole of Scotland for free already. So you want me to seek exile in Scotland?

Why don't you? Tonsils, I had my tonsils out aged five, says Jill. At the age of 13, I was living in a school hostel and the food was hellish. However, one treat we could have was a hot drink at 8pm made of blackcurant jam and sugar. To be eligible, you would have to have had a sore throat so my pal and I played this for weeks,

eventually we got sent to the local GP who referred us to the hospital for the op. I went along with it all, convinced that at the last moment the person with the knife would see that the tonsils had been removed eight years before. However,

Terrible. Some kind of operation was performed. What? I know. Ice cream, etc. was forthcoming. And hospital food was better than school hostel food plus time off. Bonus.

This all happened before the October break, so I was released from hospital in time to travel on the ferry home at 6am. All was fine until the weather changed. The ferry couldn't tie up so was moored off the pier for 12 hours. No one returning from school had extra money for food or drinks, so thankfully the kindness of strangers bought us soup and drinks. My throat was still very tender and although this happened in the late 60s, I can still remember the pain. Also the agony of seeing car lights drive down the pier and then go away again. Eventually, when the weather abated and we were all safely delivered,

the joy of getting to home comforts. That's just such an adventure to go on. I'm fascinated by lots of things you've mentioned there, actually. I'm not sure about a school hostel. I don't know what I'm imagining there. That was for islanders. So like a boarding school? Yes, they would have to live in a hostel.

Next door to the school. Okay. I've caught up on Gamash, says Jill, and boy, the last two are amazing and very tall. Topical. These are Louise Penny's books, and they really are. They're about climate change. They're about America's aggressive attitude towards Canada. They're about states trying to take over nation states. They are very prescient. Now, I think they're also audio books, because I think a couple of my friends have said they really love listening to those books. What's the starter book to get into? Still life. Still life. By Louise Penny. And it's just been re-released because I think it's 20 years since she wrote it. And you can, you can. and get yourself a remarkably beautiful copy of Still Life and Hardback at the moment.

And this is another tonsis one, but it's very important this. Now, I did not know this, so listen up everybody. It's from Melanie, she's still in Somerset, a second mention of Somerset on this podcast. She's in Vanilla Taunton. She's our Vanilla Taunton. Well, we don't know how vanilla Melanie is. But anyway, I wish I hadn't started any of that, Melanie.

Thank you so much for your email. Good luck. Richard. Medical alert to parents of teenage boys, she says. Listening to your chat about tonsils made me feel I must wave a red flag and ask you to raise the topic of HPV, which can cause tonsil cancer, which is awful and avoidable if teenage boys have the HPV vaccine.

My previously healthy and active husband had his tonsils out three years ago before undergoing chemo for tonsil cancer. And we thought the operation would be the easy part, but it wasn't actually. it's very painful in adults. After barely recovering from the op, he then had 30 rounds of radiotherapy

and four of chemo. It sounds really awful for him, actually. I'm so sorry to hear this. Melanie says this can be avoided by youngsters by having that one jab. The same jab protects girls against cervical cancer. The vaccination needs to be before the teens are sexually active to be useful.

tonsil cancer in males is very common and a growing problem, but is 95% cure. but the treatment is pretty brutal. Our oncologist told us she talks to local schools because not all teens take the opportunity to have the jab. So happily, her lovely husband, she says, is cancer-free and healthy,

and we have much to thank the NHS-4 and the fabulous team at Musgrove Hospital in Taunton. Right, really important information that, and I hope people do take note. You are offered the HPV vaccine in schools, you. I know my girls had it at their secondary school. I'm not sure whether it's one of those. Can we check whether it's one of those? Yes, Eve's just writing some notes on our hand, probably about what to buy for dinner tonight.

Get a fish cake. But I just, is every child in Britain offered the HPV vaccine? Yes, every child in the UK in year eight is offered the HPV vaccine. Okay, and it's every child. It's about boys and girls. Yeah, there you go. Well, that's good. Let's hope everybody takes advantage. Yes, definitely. Definitely. There are some very interesting stories around at the moment about the advancement of scientific and medical endeavor and just how close, not cures for cancer are, but vaccinations that will help people eradicate cancers. Because it's wrong to say it's a cure, isn't it? Because you've got the disease in the first place. And I think it is one of those very important things to keep remembering at the moment that we are spent. so much time having to report the actions and the reactions to just one man in the world.

All of the other things that we would normally be spending our time concentrating on as journalists are a little bit distorted. And I think there has never been a time when we've needed good news more. And to understand what new technology is bringing to the medical world in particular. And we just don't hear that voice. We're just hearing a voice of doom, doom, doom, doom, doom all the time. Just worth saying that the paracetamol in pregnancy thing, there's just been a report out this week from, you know, very well-respected medical body in the UK.

Just saying, just don't, if you are in pain and you're pregnant, you are completely safe to take paracetamol. Don't believe that cobbler's. Right. David Bidill and cats. David is hosting an ambitious three-part documentary series for Channel 4. It's called Catman. Apparently, is it really the very very very? very first show on British television.

Celebrating cats. It's the first series. Series. Okay. I think Joanna Lumley did a show called Cat Woman, but it was a one-part documentary. She wasn't even trying. Being Joanna, she was allowed to travel the world. We haven't travelled the world.

But we will do in series two, I should imagine, because there are some amazing cats in America and China and God knows where else. But I don't believe there's been a series about cats, no. And my whole premise in this show is ever since television started, There's been TV about dogs. You are both too young, of course, but I remember Barbara Woodhouse, who used to do sort of black and white shows about training dogs.

I list just a fraction of the iceberg of dog television at the start of the first show. I don't get through it. And then I point out that the only cat show that I'm aware of that's on regularly is bagpuss, was bagpuss, and he's made out of cloth. So it's time for cats, given that 12 million households in the UK have a cat. But no, they're marginalised. It's a marginalised community, but it shouldn't be because they're not a small marginalised community.

The stats don't lie. 24% of British women and 23% of British men are cat owners, we're told. And you are very cat positive. How many cats are you got fee? I've currently got three. She's got three. I've got what, just the one. You've got...

Three, I did have four until the sad death of Pip, which is charted in show one. Her three children are still alive and well in my house. Okay, and you go back a long way with cats. I think your late dad who you've talked about who was, I think it's fair to say, a difficult man in a number of ways. Hugely difficult. But he did love his cat.

Yes. I said on his funeral, and I'll clean this up for you, that he had three laughs in his life, cats, football and shouting, who the effing hell is this now every time the phone rang. That was essentially who my dad was. But he really, his only soft side, came out around fomfer, who was our cat.

That was his strange name for her, based on her pur. He thought she used to pur her by going fomfer, A fomphor. And so he used to hold her up a lot and say, you're a fantastic beast, aren't you? What a great beast you are. And for my dad, that was a love sonnet. And I think me and my brothers

learnt there that cats were the sight of affection and softness and homeliness, like a home. For me, a house is not a home without a cat. And you've always had cats? Yeah, I've always had cats. Even when I was at university, I took in a street cat when I was living in halls of residence. Julius, I'm not sure where he is now.

No, I was going to say. When you were a younger man and you were very much known for a kind of, well, a ladish culture. It's so early in the interview together. Yeah. Was there a bit of you that was embarrassed to tell people that you were a cat lover? No, I'm not about to tell people anything about myself. And one of the things we talk about in the show is that when I live with Frank Skinner, which would have been at the height of that particular time, I insisted on having a cat.

Now, Frank is not a cat person and he's on the show as a naysay. And in this revelatory moment for me, we talk about our cat, Chairman Miao, still the best name for a cat ever, that we came up together in a brainstorming session, and I'm proud of it that we did that. But he says on the show, yeah, well, you had your cat. What do you mean? It was our cat.

We lived together for six years. I don't know if he ever fed her, to be honest, but nonetheless, he reveals, because Frank doesn't get it with cats. He says to me at one point, not on the show, I think, but when we were recording, he said, well, it's a bit like having a vase, meaning they're just decorative.

They're not actually what they are, which is the living, breathing personality in your house made of fur. I think he is a cat, though, isn't he? Frank's a cat. Frank's a cat. You know, you know, that very diffident cat. You know, he just won't quite do what he's told. Right. But makes he laugh.

Yes. You kind of sometimes. But we're all cats, aren't we? Are we all cats, David? I think so. We're all types of cats. Well, one of my points in the show is, well, people have said to me, so, you know, what is that you like about cats? I said it was very hard to say because one of my points is, every cat is different.

I actually don't think that's true about. dogs and I like dogs. Let me be clear listeners, I like dogs. I do think they're uniform, that i.e. all dogs love all humans as far as I can make out. I've never met a dog that doesn't seem very happy to see it's human or any human. Cats are

more complex. Some of them, and I have a cat now tiger, loves me, loves all humans, very dog-like. Another one, Zelda, his half-sister, furious. Be like my dad. Furious because she used to have to live in my dad's garden. I gave her to my mum

when she was very young then my mum died my dad got dementia Zelda had to live in the garden because the carers had enough on their plate with my dad and when she came back to us

it wasn't like Long Noss family you know a long loss family it's rare that you see that where there's a lovely reunion where the mum hisses at the daughter and chases are under a cupboard and it was a bit like that

but she's furious so fine you know I find that interesting that we have one who's incredibly friendly and one who's furious now in the documentary one of the documentaries

I've seen you're top of the class because you've seen all three. You talk about how cat faces are somehow designed to please humans. Can you just expand upon that point? Well, I mean, it must be the case. One of the things about the show that is sort of hitting an open door, I think, is that the internet has proved something,

which is that people like to watch cats on screen. Now, why do we like it so much? It's because there's something incredibly pleasing about, I mean, on many animals' faces, but I would say top of the pleasingness. And even Frank admits it's this, he doesn't like that, is a cat face. And I think that's because, I know, if you think about like cartoons of Disney cartoons

of sort of prettiness, it's big eyes, it's small noses, it's very symmetrical. That's our idea of prettiness. And I say in show to, Jonathan Ross actually says it that he says, I don't think there's such a thing as an ugly cat. And I do go and find what is supposed to be the ugliest cat in the world,

who is Wilf Warrior, who has Wilford Warrior, who has a million followers on Instagram. And we speak to a Spanish waitress who has a tattoo. of Wilford Warrior on her ankle. We zoom between Wilford Warrior and that person. And that's because even his ugliness is pretty,

and that's the thing about cats. William says, the best name for a cat is mousy tongue. Mousy tongue? Mousy tongue. Oh God, just got it. It took me a while. Well done, Bill. Bill's in Cyprus.

I'm glad we're sticking with the Maoist thing. It's falling, isn't it? The people who monetise their pets, I'm always a little bit dubious. And there are some, I mean, maybe they're just cleverer than me, people who make a packet out of their cats. Yeah, there's a few cat fluences. We do, Janalfo very keen that we absolutely have some of the cat fluences on there.

And to be fair, all those people are really nice. They all really love their cats. They're not. We didn't have anyone on who I felt was just there to, you know, have cats for clicks. They all really love them. And all the cats that we're with who are internet cats, I got the sense, which maybe is a sense always with cats, that they're really the bosses anyway.

Like King Louis, for example, who's. in the show who's a parent, the person who hangs out with King Louis, and he's monetising King Louis, Kirsty, she is very, very, very much in thrall to King Louis. Well, was she the lady who quotes only works with products that shares the same values? I think what she says is attune with her beliefs. I said, well, what do you believe in? She says, I don't know. I really, really loved that myself. I remember saying, like, in the edit, they didn't have that bit in. I said, can we put that bit back in? I love that bit. That made me Now look, some cat deniers have been in touch as well.

And Martin says, could you ask your guest, David Badele, if he thinks it's okay for cats to do their business all over their neighbours' gardens and massacre the local bird population? Do you think it's okay? Well, that isn't the only one we've had about birds. So, David, make the case, please. Well, no, it's no case. You know, obviously cats are animals and they do animalistic things.

I mean, to be honest with you, I don't think, if I, I'd never had a dog, but I personally think it's kind of like a difficult thing to follow a person, as it were, a being round and pick up their poo. That's the thing that I think feels to me very complicated, but dog owners are perfectly happy to do that. I'm perfectly happy to put up with the fact that actually my cat's all poo in my garden, in a very specific

part of my garden, and clear it up and like that's nice of them. But I'm not trying to suggest that they are the perfect animals. I'm trying to suggest that they are really, really animals that empathise in ways that many humans don't get, but those who do. Desiree Birch on my show,

a brilliant American comedian, who lives in Britain, said this thing, which she said, there's the biggest misconception about cats, because we ask everyone that, is that people don't like cats. What they mean is that they haven't spent any time with cats. And actually, I'm sorry to mention him because he used to be here,

but Matt Chorley, I was just on his show. I'm sorry to mention him. No, I can't picture that. Okay, well, he's a guy, right? And he actively doesn't like cats. And I said to him, have you ever had a cat? Have you ever spent any time any time? And he said, well, I've seen them.

I've been at friends' houses. He hasn't spent any time with cats. He doesn't know what he's missing. Yeah. Because... Not being a Times Radio anymore. Well, that, for a start, we miss him a bit, but we can't really recall much about him. I was written in to say, what about cats doing this?

What about cats doing that? Like, I'm actually a cat. I don't know, I'm actually the spokesperson for cats. No, it's lovely. When I let myself into my house in about, I don't know, an hour and a half's time, sometimes the cat literally comes to greet me at the door. Now, you're right. A cat makes a home.

Yes. And a home without a cat, I'm now... I'm no... I'm no... We'll live and die now with a cat for the rest of my days. Yes. I can't imagine being without cats. I did do this slightly weird thing,

which is when I first got together with my wife, more winter banks, and we were literally been going out together for about a month. I got her a cat. And I remember standing in her house, which was not, we didn't live together at that point, obviously. And she said, it's lovely, but here you go. Have him back because it's too early for that.

But that cat, I was right, because that cat, monkey, went on to be with us for 20 years and absolutely as part of our home-making story. Right. Yes, isn't it? You'd go along with that, wouldn't you? You love your cats. I absolutely adore my cats. And I'm with both of you.

What have you got? Well, they're all hackney-Tom cats, and Barbara's a hackney-girl cat. So they're not pedigree at all. I've never had a pedigree cat. Brian and Barbara are apparently from the same mum and dad, but you just couldn't get more different cats. Brian and Barbara and Tom? Brian and Barbara and Cool Cat.

Oh, I thought. I heard the good life somehow. Hackney-Tom cats. So they're just, they're mongrels. I'm so sorry. This is like Cats cradle. Showing our age a little bit there with a good life reference. Anyway, carry on.

No, they're all gorgeous and they do have completely different personalities. And I agree with you both. People who don't know cats think that they're all the same, but they're not. And actually, I've got dogs as well. I think the cats have more personality. I apologize to the dog. No, that's...

I mean, because one of the things is, and even I wasn't sure about this, is like, what will cats do on a TV show? And then what you realize is there's a lot to say about cats. There's a lot of cat owners want to talk about their cats. And then also, and this is slightly the internet's doing, but I think it's a good thing, which is very unusual for saying anything. They've proved that cats will do many more things than just sleep, eat and judge us. They actually, I go paddleboarding with a cat, which clearly enjoys it.

That was bongo. Bongo. I go, I go, I walk up a mountain with a cat. Well, hang on, that's Jasper. Yeah, that's Jasper, yes. I'm very nervous. I really want to talk about cats on Leeds. You don't like it? Well, what do you think? Well, I can tell you that none of my cats, I think, would like that.

But I went walking with Jasper and, Unquestion, Marley, who is a lovely, lovely person and really, really relates to the cat. She was a student, wasn't she? She was a student, yeah. But actually, she talks in show three, which a lot of people talk about, about various mental health issues she has that she feels are eased by the cat. She's got a brilliant relationship with the cat. I mean, you know, I don't claim to be an expert, but I have spent a lot of time around cats. And I know when a cat is distressed, that cat was not at a time. distressed and was really enjoying walking and other cats might not.

No. How early must you start training a cat to go out on a lead? Well, she has another cat and she says the other cat is not so key. So obviously she would have taken them out, become aware that the cat didn't enjoy it, and decide, no, Jasper enjoys it and the other cat doesn't. So I think you have to be alive to the cat's needs and decide whether or not the cat is comfortable with it. I mean, since I've been doing the show, actually while I was doing the show, people suddenly started talking to me about cats and I met a bloke on the train

who said, oh you're doing that cat thing and he had a rucksack with an incredibly beautiful Persian kitten in it and it was a transparent rucksack and some people don't like them right but you know I just when I need to take my cats anywhere I put them in a box

so I don't see what's the difference with having a rucksack and I have to say that cat was totally happy I really really loved the bit about the feline equivalent of the kennel club when you went to a cat show. Yes. Now, I did not know that there was a kind of kennel club for cats,

and it has the brilliant name of the governing council of the cat fancy. And I'll just say that again, because I just love saying, the governing council. Of the cat fancy. You know, it's had that name since about 1847 when it was established. The governing council of the cat fancy, yes, it sounds like a weird cake. But just take on Robert, who says two middle-aged, self-confessed cat ladies talking about cats. Is that you two?

Yeah, but just put Robert in his place, please. Well, so one of the things we also do discuss is that I can't bear the whole cat ladies thing. I mean, I don't know whether you have children or not, but who cares? We've both been blessed with kiddies as well as animals. But the idea that there's something negative about hanging out with cats, I won't have that anyway, but they're sort of misogyn, like a bloke on his own with a cat, which I was, by the way, for some years, with various cats, is like not accused of like being whatever. The idea of sort of somehow failure or whatever.

Thank you, sister. So it's misogynistic, but also it's catphobic. That's together. Like it underestimates how great it is to be with cats. Sometimes better than kids. Yeah, witches always had cats, didn't they, you see. Yes, they didn't really, because witches didn't really exist. That's the thing.

Oh, you think they did? Right, thank you, David. Sorry, you. You don't know what I'm doing tonight. I want to know more about the governing council of the cat fancy, because it seems a preposterously pompous title. You're telling us a little bit about the history of that body. I'm going to.

Well, you were mentioning it's actually had that title for quite some time. Yeah, but that's about all I know about it. Apart from having gone to its show. They are very, very serious, these cat shows. Yeah, well, so Susan Morland, who is a breeder and shower of Bengals and Toygas, I never had a pedigree cat, never really seen the need, personally, because the thing is, as I say in the show, all cats are beautiful, all cats are perfect, so why set up a weird hierarchy?

But I go along to this show, people are very nice, the cats are fantastic, but it's mad. It's mad because of the over-categorisation of cats. I was there for a whole day and I still didn't understand how you won anything. No, I couldn't work it out. You had to be neutered and some you didn't have to be. Yeah, it's like best female, neutered, furry fluff number 27. I mean, the number of different ways you could win. I'm surprised.

Maybe it's just one of those quite nice things. Like when you go to kids party and everyone gets a prize. Maybe it's like that. There are a lot of rosettes involved. Is the cash on offer as well? Oh, I don't know. Maybe there is cash, but there's certainly rosettes. Maybe you could sell the rosettes and get a lot of cats.

I don't know. I mean, it's quite exciting. I'm not going to go away what happens, but Lucy, who is Susan's Toigar, Toigua is a Bengal cross with a domestic cat, has won the governing council of the cat fans his overall best cat in show prize two years running when we go to the third one.

Yes, and we'll leave a bit of jeopardy there. Yeah. But I couldn't quite see why that cat was award-winning. neither can I. Absolutely not. No, that's really. No idea. Charlie says a bloke on his own with a cat is a Bond villain. You see a good point.

No, wrong though. Wrong though. Yes, in one or two Bond films, Ernst Stavro Blofeld has a cat. It's very interesting about the stereotyping there, because I think that's meant to show that he's a villain and that he's a bit camp. Whereas James Bond, we assume, would have a dog, right? We assume because Jane Blum. And all that notion, I wrote an article about this for the Sunday,

and we talk about it in the show, like cats are sort of female and feminine, and therefore a bit slinky and whatever, mysterious, and a dog is stoic and loyal and simple. It's all a nonsense binary, right? And James Bond, which is not, I think, certainly in the 60s challenging any stereotypes. It's just going along with that. Yes, I think you're right about Bond.

I don't think the beckhams have been in the news this week. She said shoehorning in a topical reference. And I don't think they've got pets. Actually, do they have pets? I mean, considering how Instagrammable they always want to be, and cats are a big thing on the internet, you would have thought they would find. Actually, now I went to look, I haven't done this before, at Brooklyn-Bemkems' Instagram, mainly cooking.

But at one point, he kisses two very, very poodly pedigree white dogs. So presumably they're not cat people. I mainly want to mention because I am proud of it, a pun I did on the internet, which was after I discovered that part of the. problem apparently is that Victoria had danced in a slightly inappropriate way. Allegedly. Allegedly danced in appropriate way at Brooklyn's wedding. I said it's all very Oedipus Bex.

Yes, that's good. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's well worth a wider audience. You've already told us that these shows have done well because you've been scheduled up against traitors. Not the easiest at the moment. No, it's the final next week. We're up against the final.

That's good. But it is on all four as well, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's on all four. It's on streaming. It actually did pretty well. I mean, you know, Traitors changed its slot from 9 o'clock to 8 o'clock, which is where we are. And there was massive wailing and despair over Channel 4 scheduling.

And indeed in my house, not just the cats. But, you know, at the moment, it's really, it got quite a big rating for a new show about a subject that is normally on television. And now on streaming it's doing brilliantly. Well, that's, I'm not surprised, because it's incredibly entertaining and the world is a grim old place. Yes.

Is there going to be another series? Well, I really hope so because, A, I want to, we didn't get a lot of money to shoot this one, I want to get enough money to go abroad and see some of the amazing cats. I personally obsessed with a cat in China called Gwandang, who is a very fat cat with an immensely sad face with two million followers, and I've always just loved Gwandang. There's cats all over the place I want to see. There's islands of cats in Greece that I'd like to go to.

And then there's just things I wasn't aware of. Just while I was waiting to come on to your lovely show, I got sent someone on, it was on the year, internet who cleans her tongue with a fake cat tongue she puts it on her own tongue and she cleans her cat like she's the cat mom with a fake rough cat tongue and i'm very happy to do that for catman series two i i want to see that i think so extreme cat stuff with david bedeal in series two but series one is well worth a watch david bedeele and you can find cat man on channel four um it it's it's entertaining isn't it i mean just

when you think you know everything about cats, you realise you don't. You really don't. I like the premise, you know, that we focus too much on dogs. I think he's right about that. Yeah. But as a confirmed, like you,

confirmed cat lover, I couldn't do more than three. Oh, for now. For now. For now, just for that. Yes. Perhaps if there's another series, we'll delve right back in.

Yeah. delve, dive? Both of those two things. Yeah. Yeah, as I say, Dora took scant interest in episode one and no interest at all in episode two. I know, but Dora's... I don't think Dora is interested in the experiences of any other Dora.

I think Dora is a little bit solipsistic. If you'd like to join in... What does she get that for? I say nothing. If you'd like to join in our banter, hand up in the studio from Eve, yes. Tomorrow we'll pick the book I'll pick. So last opportunity. Tomorrow we will pick the book club pick.

So if you want to get a recommendation in for a reread, then you've got to do it right now. Or should we just say it's a toss-up right now? Yeah, it is a toss-up between a town like Alice and Rebecca. Some people have said, please, a town like Alice. Yeah. I mean, I think everyone can hear her, can't think. I can't be off the trip, it's all of that.

You got it. You got it to turn it up a bit. Come on, we're not paid. We're not paid to talk this long. She's got a lovely voice. We're going to walk out on another strike. Work to rule. So, yes, we will probably just decide between the two of those.

My vote would be, Jane, for the Neville shoot, just because it's been such a long time since I've even thought about that book. I agree. I think, well, so I don't know, because Rebecca is fascinating. I just don't know. I just don't. I'm on the fence. Okay.

Well, you could always read both. Well, I wouldn't go, no. I wouldn't do that one because I'm extraordinarily busy but yes so not that much on bed let's go with Neville Shute right okay we'll talk to you tomorrow

goodbye bye congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another off air with Jane and Fee thank you if you'd like to hear us do this live and we do it live

every day Monday to Thursday 2 till 4 on Times radio The Jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.