Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Moving seamlessly on to hip replacements (with Michael Ball)

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

There are some public service announcements to kick off today’s podcast, so make sure your ears are pricked! Jane and Fi also cover young George Clooney, appearance discourse, period ads, more tummy time (unfortunately), and, of course, saucepan lids. Plus, performer Michael Ball discusses his upcoming album 'Glow'. Recommendations in today's podcast: Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout and Helen Garner's collection of diaries Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You should just go back and watch. He haven't done he are, have you? No. Well, you should. I think that would be an absolute treat, and you get to see George Clooney. In his pomp? Well, I think he's in his pomp now.

It's an interesting point. I did see an image of him yesterday. Yeah, I think he's a deliciously well-kept older man. And actually, it's quite weird seeing him as the younger George Clooney, because his face is obviously just a bit pert and podgia. I prefer it now. We've got some appearance email. I've got quite a few.

Yes, we have. Welcome along. Most of this podcast will be dedicated to source pan lids. Well, yes. And we will get to that. But can we just have some public service announcements just to start with? Oh, okay. Because I sometimes think I don't do enough of these and people are making good points. This is from Jill.

I do agree about the merits of a senior rail card, says Jill. As a Londoner, Jane may not be aware of the benefits for us provincial types of linking your rail card to an oyster to benefit from discounted TFL fares. I didn't know you could do this. When you have a rail card and an oyster, next time you're in London, seek out a member of TFL staff at a TFL station. And that's actually a task in itself. You've got to find a member of TFL staff.

It's very confusing because the people who sit behind the desk and behind the glass. Yeah, they don't do certain things. Well, they're not TFL. What do they do? I don't know. But there are so many people who arrive at Dahlston-Kingston. It's quite a busy hub of a place. and they're frequently told, no, we can't deal with that because that's TFL.

And you can just see people thinking, but this is... I thought this was. I've got a TFL card. I'm about to enter a TFL building. Right. I can't you deal with my query. So yeah, good luck with that. Well, anyway, to continue, Jill's point, they will use a ticket machine to link the two together

so that for the duration of the rail card, you'll get the discounted fares via the oyster card. You do need to repeat this process each time you get a new rail card. I hope this is useful. It doesn't seem to be that well known, says Jill. And thank you very much for bothering to email us on that, Jill. I think it will help a few people. Thank you. And Marion is in Stourbridge. Jane and Fee, you can get a rail card with Tesco vouchers if you have any. I pay £12 in vouchers last year for a year's senior rail card. Also, I think Olaf's mom should go with her heart and go back on tour when baby Olaf is a bit older. It all goes by so quickly and one's brain and body needs more time to recalibrate.

mind you, I still have a baby belly and I'm 71. Marion, I always say that I've never really got back to my fighting weight 23 years after bringing forth another offspring. But hey, it was so worth it. I think your advice, especially because you are 71 to Olas Mum, is lovely. And I sometimes worry actually when people contact the podcast and they're asking for advice and it does all kind of pile in. I always wonder whether or not it's been a really good thing.

So, Laura, I hope that you have enjoyed listening to other people's experiences. And Olaf is tiny. I mean, really, really tiny. So, you know, you've still got a long time to go before school appears and term times and possibly other siblings and stuff like that. And I think the tour was pretty imminent, wasn't it? And I would personally say if you want to stay clutching those high trousers with the burgeoning nappy underneath for a couple more months

if you can do it then it might be a lovely thing and also it is just horrible Jane if you find yourself back at work too soon you know work is for everybody a pounding environment where you have to turn up and do a job and you can't be the person in the corner and you know quite often the person in the toilet's pumping out milk and all that kind of stuff you got to you do have to bring a game to work yeah so if you're in the world of performance

where that game is pretty specific, isn't it? And you go back and you think, actually, I just really, really want to be at home. That's going to be problematic for you and nobody wants that. Shall we move on to Andy, who sent us a fantastic email? We had some lovely emails about appearance,

and this was off the back of the interview that you had done. This is with the writer Katrina O'Sullivan, whose book is out now. She wrote a book called Paul, and the follow-up is called Hungry. And it's very difficult to sum it up really. But yes, body image does feature a lot in that second book. This one comes in from Liz in New Zealand.

Would you like an accent? I don't think you should. Your recent episode on appearance and how no one loves how they looks really resonated with me. I had to write to tell you that the age of 50, I actually do love how I look. I've just finished 18 months of treatment for breast cancer and instead of two boobs,

I now have an angry, wonky, 40 centimetre scar across my very flat chest. When removing the tumour in my chest wall, the surgeons had to pull the remaining skin tight. So now I have a completely smooth deconitage. No crepey neck for me. Silver linings. Only just.

The flat chest works with my tall, slim frame, and I don't think anybody really notices, and if they do, who cares? My curly blonde hair fell out with the nasty chemotherapy drugs and has been replaced with what I think will be straight, ashy strands. It's grown into an almost pixie cut now, and I love it. I surprise myself every time I look in the mirror. I'm not sure if I'll keep it short

and would never have chosen to shave my head if I didn't have to, but I have to say having such short hair is a revelation, and I feel great. Yes, I mourned the loss of my boobs, and yes, I've still got cellulite on my thighs, but if I can find the positives in my new rebranded appearance, then I'm sure everyone can. let's move on from worrying over how we look and focus on the sparks of joy

big or small that every day has to offer my saucepan lids live on their pans in a deep draw and Liz apologises for showing off you're not showing off at all it's good to know that they're there and Liz has sent a picture I mean you just look absolutely stunning

I'd say if you weren't thinking about keeping your head that short maybe think again looks good I think it's a superb look and it's a really worthwhile perspective isn't it? Because something like that we really need that perspective. It changes the worry of oh dear this is sinking a bit

and this is creeping a bit and all of that kind of stuff. You've survived something absolutely major there and we send you lots of love. Because that's real and it's a proper lived experience and let's never forget that all that self-doubt that we're encouraged to feel is about

making other people loads of money. Yes, it is. It just is. And I'm not saying I don't dye my hair or use moisturisers that are probably ridiculously expensive at times. Absolutely guilty. But please let's focus on the fact that we're fortunate. We can get out of bed in the morning. Put one foot in front of another.

And we're, by and large, pretty healthy. So look, fantastic. Let's just own it. And congratulations to you. And I'm glad you threw your treatment. Yeah, and you do. You look absolutely amazing. Andy's got a lovely point.

I so agree with you, Andy. I'm nearly 50. I recently moved back to London from Southern Spain. The three years I spent in Spain completely changed how I felt about my body for the better. I spent lots of time in a bikini and always had a tan, massively helpful. The hot climate meant that everybody got their limbs out continuously. Therefore, I became a lot more accustomed to seeing many different bodies. But the biggest difference was my relationship with food.

The Spanish supermarket simply didn't have all of the junk food that our British counterparts have, which meant our diet was just fantastic. And my relationship with food was simply a delight. Recent guests talked about food noise, and I think much of this is driven by the British supermarkets. I've realised it's almost impossible to walk out of one without some kind of treat in my trolley. My teenage kids think British supermarkets are the best, and that says it all. And Andy says, I often look at myself naked and I generally think not bloody bad. But when I think this, I quickly follow up with, oh, I'm not supposed to think that. See, that's it, isn't it? That's the thing. That's

the thing. How strange is that? Thank you for making me realize this. I also notice an uptake in my fondness for my physique if I've not been looking in any social media and a feeling of dissatisfaction if I do go figure. Well, Andy, a series of fabulous points and I'm so with you actually, if you go to a beach on holiday in any country on continental mainland Europe, I just don't know in America or anywhere else. But if you go to a normal beach where people are having a normal time, you will not see a magazine body. There just won't be one. One of those, the bodies that are sold to us that a very, very small, very nano percentage of the population could ever have, most of that will be genetic or damaging dieting. Most people just aren't built like that. It's why I love the Lido,

and I completely agree with you, it makes you feel so much more confident about yourself. And also, Because you just never look at another woman who has a different body shape and think I don't like her. That's not what's happening. I don't want to be her friend. Because her thighs are too big or her knees are too wobbly

or her upper arms aren't firm. You just never think that. Oh, the upper arms. You know, I can't be there. No, I always remember going on holiday to Croatia and first thing in the morning and I'm talking about 7, 8 o'clock during the summer, the backers come out, the grannies.

and they've got their cosies on, usually with some sort of very flimsy house coat type of fare on top of it. They go for a little bit of a paddle and a chat with their mates on the beach and then they drink some fig brandy and then they go back to the house and they'll have a kip

and then maybe they'll potter out in the evening as well. And they won't be worrying about their slenderness. Nor should they. No. No, because they're just enjoying being in nature, being with their mates and those glorious early mornings in the sunshine and they're fast approaching here, aren't they? Can I just add as well that I do think exactly the same about male bodies,

that I don't look at men's bodies and think I'm going to like you less as a person. You know, if you've got a little bit of a beer belly or perhaps you haven't got biceps and all that kind of stuff. And I just want to be balanced in my approach to this prejudice, Jane. Because I think young men are having a horrible time at the moment. Well, actually, that would really, really horrible. Katrina O'Sullivan has sons, and so we did talk about that in the interview.

and I think she is, well, I think it's okay to say that one of her sons in particular she feels is over-jimming. He's just going too often. He's doing too much. And I think that is a real concern for many parents at the moment. So, yeah, they're absolutely involved in all this too. I just want to go to Melbourne. Good I and Anna. I was listening to the conversation with Katrina O'Sullivan where perceptions of appearance were discussed and the notion of reminding our children how wonderful they look as a means to

support their own self-image and perhaps mitigate poor self-image in the future, as the mother of a primary school girl is that this is something I really struggle with knowing how best to handle it all. In a professional setting, comments, presumably well-meaning, are frequently made to me about how I look, e.g., you look well, have you lost weight, etc. Now, I've been thinking about this. When I say to another woman, you look well, I am not judging whether or not I think they've lost weight or gained weight. I'm usually just going on their amount of facial glowiness or I don't know, what is it, jollity, what am I commenting on when I? I do say, oh, you look well, but that's not about, well, not in my case,

what are we commenting on when we say that? I would say it if I felt that somebody was looking healthy. Yes, so they were kind of bright-eyed. Bright-eyed, yeah, that's a good way of putting it bright-eyed. And clear skin, if they look like Eve. Thank you. There we are. I was thinking about my partner's niece, who is a young girl,

and I check myself sometimes and wonder what is an appropriate thing to say to her when she wants to show me her dress or her hair, whether I say, oh, you look so pretty, whether that's not right. I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. Because you don't, I've become very conscious of not wanting to tell either of, of my kids or their friends, that they're somehow made happier by looking attractive. But you also, you want them to have confidence in how they're appearing.

So it's such a fine line. It's such a fine line. Do you want, the thing that I really struggle with, there are lots of yearbooks being made in our house at the moment because my youngest is about to leave school. and her generation, my son's generation too, they are just extraordinarily more attractive. Do you think? No, I just, and I feel a bit sorry for them actually. I think because they have available to them,

this whole beauty industry, the male cosmetic industry, the fashion industry, you know, they've just been bombarded with this pressure about how they look from such a young age I wonder whether you can really be going through your adolescence now not focusing on how you look and just being accepted

if I look back at our school photograph our Leavers school photograph and actually they're doing the rounds at the moment because we've got a reunion coming up Oh there's a reunion, since with them? With thunds. There are just a lot of us who just weren't attractive in sixth form.

No, I'm not saying that to get out of the time violence but you know what I mean Jane you know there were a couple of absolute stunners in our year they were naturally very very beautiful girls but there were lots of us who just no I mean I mean I didn't yeah no where have they gone what's happened to us am I making any sense um it is interesting isn't it I have to go back you're you're I think you're probably right there probably were four or five people who looked astonishing and the rest of us were you know if we're being generous also rounds but hang on we're arguing against ourselves here because we're trying to tell I mean what I would say and

I've always stuck by this. To anyone who says appearance doesn't matter, that's a lie. Because if you look good, however we choose to frame it, you'll probably find that your passage or your path through life is substantially easier. And would that that were different. And I'm sorry, but it isn't different. No, but I don't think we are arguing against ourselves. Aren't we saying that it is sad that things have changed so much that there's such a uniform idea of beauty and there's such an industry that makes young women and young men want to head towards that and better able to head towards that, that they are all doing that. And, you know, there's a look at the moment, isn't there? There is. Can I just go back briefly to Anna in Melbourne who talks about these comments

about her appearance. They're always unsolicited and they come from both women and men. Now, they're well-meaning, but it does make me feel a bit uneasy because the message I received tells me that people are observing and judging how I look. Whilst this is undoubtedly probably true, do I need to be reminded or made aware of their judgments? As yet, thankfully, nobody has told me I look more haggard than usual, which might also be a fair observation from time to time. I'm often left wondering if men are frequently getting the same kind of unsolicited feedback at work. Perhaps a member of your male audience could enlighten us. Because of this, I avoid ever commenting on my own daughter appearance, I worry that doing so might create an impression of value in looking pretty or beautiful

when actually what I value is her being just her natural, wonderful self, appearance or otherwise. I don't want to create a norm regarding people giving unsolicited feedback on how she looks, or am I overthinking this? Well, that's exactly what Eve said. Yeah, it is. I mean, yes, I do remember when my children were at the dressing up phase, what always made me laugh is that my my eldest nephew also loved dressing up and they all went into the dressing up box together

and would all come out in a variety of fairy dresses I mean my lovely nephew would frequently go to the park in a fairy dress and we just I mean my sister had the approach so who cares and he loved it my daughter's never questioned it why would they and I just think that was one of that and we said they all look pretty we got around it by by saying that and they did yeah so photographs are available

but for my nephew's sake I won't be making them public. What's our correspondence specifically asking for? Whether at work men are saying to other men... Well, are they? Or are women saying to men? See, I would never... It's a really interesting point in this. I would never say to one of our male colleagues, you're looking. No, I wouldn't.

Because I'd be marched from the building. HR would immediately be made aware of that, but we would happily say it to each other, won't we? We would deserve it to each other, and I think that's... And I always think it's a... Well, men have been fired for less as well, especially at the... Anna, you say some lovely things about how Fee and I kept your company in the early

days of being a mum. So thank you very much for that. I love the idea of us being on lots of baby walks in Melbourne or indeed anywhere else, but we're very glad that you've continued to listen. So thank you. Melbourne, stunning. Stunning, stunning, absolutely stunning. How would you know? We haven't been, have we? Yes, I have. Oh, you have been? Oh, is that the place you've been to?

I didn't know you'd been to Australia. We've had this conversation so many times, Jane. Well, congratulations. Do you try and key in just from time to time when you're on the clock. This comes in from Philippa, who says regarding funny estate agent remarks, I was looking around a flat recently

that my daughter was interested in buying and I asked the estate agent what year the flat was built and she replied, I don't know, it's not too young and not too old. That young woman will go far. So where would that place it exactly? Oh, God knows. I mean, anything from 1864 to 2023? Not too young.

Just right. Further to your discussion on buying houses, incoming from Judah, who is in Camberwell in Victoria, which is in Australia. Yes. Have you ever been? No, I haven't.

I've never been. But I've got another email from there shortly. During seasons of my working life, I went from corporate removing excess verbiage from the bosses' reports to horticulture, scientific exactness, to real estate. In real estate, I therefore felt it necessary

to efficiently remove at least three adjectives from every sentence and help with the poorly constructed descriptions of houses for sale, e.g. experience the... Shall I did it in an accent just for fun? It's Thursday. Experience the exotic native fauna and flora with nearby rippling creek. Naturally, no mention of weeds, willows, annual flooding, snakes, etc. I did insert riparian ones just for fun. All of my efforts were rejected, but I just could not come to terms with their reality. Of course, I was eventually called into the GM's office

and given the forceful advice with his hand banging the desk on key words that in real estate, we are not selling houses, we are selling dreams. Oh, God. The only job in 40 years I was ever fired from and everybody was smiling the day I departed. P.S. regarding the working musician, I have two friends who worked as musicians after giving birth, but they only did local work in Melbourne for about five years

and didn't tour, still kept a foot in the day. door though. Julia, thank you for that. I think you were wise to leave. But you're right. There are three added adjectives for every noun in a state agent blurb, and it just makes you go boss-eyed.

Yeah. I don't know what I'm reading anymore. So what, do you pay any attention to the adjectives? No, I just look at the photos. Do you. Yeah. Because when they, you know, when they start walking you through the house in words,

I just immediate think I don't want to buy this. This is just going to be, it's going to be a pest. I just look at the pictures and actually because it's all now very very digital and everything exists to have feedback on it doesn't it so you can have a whole portal where people can give you feedback when they've looked round your house and the thing is

it's just so effing rude do they? Yes so I have a galley kitchen I've been so happy in my galley kitchen Just describe what that is actually So it's a kitchen So we've got the main room downstairs, you know, with a dining table bit at one end.

And my kitchen is effectively in what used to be the side return of the house. So it's a galley kitchen just down the side of the house. So it's narrow, long and narrow. Long and narrow, yes. And I've absolutely loved it because what it meant was that I could hear the kids and what they were up to. You know, that's the big family room that everybody hung out in. But I didn't have to actually be in the same room as them all the time

and be doing all of the cooking with everybody watching me and have all of the... And I saw it happen in friends' houses. You know, kids, when they're hungry and they're waiting for a meal, if you're cooking, they want the meal. You know, they're just around you and buy you and all of that kind of stuff.

So I found it incredibly helpful having a galley kitchen. I've had some of the nicest times of my life in that kitchen, just bobbing along. You know, I'd be listening to whatever it was on the radio, the rest of the family would be listening to or watching something, or probably sitting down and reading just in piece of it.

Let's be honest, that's what was really... I don't know, so the Latin primers were out. So I've really enjoyed that figuration of my kitchen. But blimey, I mean, people come along, they don't hold back about what they think is wrong with your house. And you just say, I don't want to know. I mean, you don't want to buy it, so I don't want to know. Yeah, well, also.

Why am I reading this for? No, God, but it's, yes, oh, I didn't realize that happened. Well, I'm not going to look at it anymore, Jane. So I found it incredibly hurtful. It's just my lovely family house. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Oh, you're not buying it. So sort off.

I didn't like the way you look round. There should be another payback where you could say. I didn't like your shoes. Well, the thing is they take their shoes off at the door now. Oh, do they? So quite a lot of them, I haven't really like their feet. Back to Australia. Heather, hello, Heather.

I'm on team comfy clothes. Do you know what, Heather? I was a little experiment in the interest of podcast research. I didn't have tummy time when I got back last night. Did you sit in your hard trousers? I spent the evening in my hard trousers. and it was not an experience I'll be repeating. Did you eat less?

No. No, I probably ate more, but just more angrily. Heather says I'm on Team Comfort clothes. I walk into my room when I get back from work and I strip off my corporate gear and pop on my, she calls them, track-y-dacks, tractsuit trousers. Trekkie-decks?

And a hoodie. Soft fleecy tracky dacks make it so easy to curl up with a cat in the lounge. Bonus points if they're back, so can get covered in fur. if they are back. Well, where would they have been, Heather? Anyway, bonus points if they are back

so can get covered in fur from my gorgeous Leo cat. Once Pope Leo was popified, my Leo wants to be known as Meow Holiness. Okay, he sounds a bit demanding. There's an image. He's beautiful.

It does imply that your cat, Leo, has a job, Heather, and so that you both, you know, you come back around the same time, check in together and strip off to your comfis. But we don't know. I suspect Leo doesn't have a job on the grounds that he is a cat.

But it's possible. You might have very specific prowling duties in the neighbourhood. This one from Kitty. Hello ladies. After the inspiring interview with Claire Lynch, you both mentioned favourite authors. I'd really welcome your advice and where to start with Elizabeth Strout and Claire Keegan.

Olive Ketridge and small things like these come up on the searches, but is this what you'd suggest? Yes, is the similar answer? I'd definitely olive Kittridge, because you'll recognise. Olive Kittridge. Yeah. Because I think everyone's got an Olive

Kittred at some point in their life. Or you might be one. Yeah. No, I think that would be a good place to start. I did read a book by Elizabeth Strout that was about a mother-daughter relationship. I think it's called somebody and Isabella, and I found it was really, really brilliant,

but almost too good, if it was what I mean. Yeah, it was brilliant, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that as the starter book. Yeah, I'd start with Olive Kittridge. And small things like these, definitely start with that with Claire Kagan, unless you want to delve into short stories, which is a kind of gateway, gateway drug,

to bigger novels. Although I would say about Claire Keegan as well that she writes fantastically tight prose. She doesn't write 671 page novels. I've decided to alternate between male and female writers in turn. The next is a woman, female writer. Jumbalahiri is, of course, on the list. So that's the short story author that we're going to read in the book club.

And please, could you remind me of the name of the woman, diarist who fee really holds in high esteem, who detailed the fallout of her marriage and who was included as a sentence in her husband's memoir. Let's just not mention his name, but her name is Helen Garner. And I would start at the beginning of her diaries. So there are three separate volumes, but you can buy them as the collected diaries now. And I mean, I would start at the beginning with the diaries because it will just help, obviously, for everything else to make sense. I think it's the one in the middle that was the huge bestseller but don't do that to yourself Kitty

go all the way back to the start I think I will never be able to read anybody else's diaries without thinking I wish that this was Helen Garner I just think her writing is just superb right that's a I think that's what the young people call a hard recommend our guest in this podcast is Michael Ball and he doesn't need an introduction, which is fortunate because, as usual, I haven't come up with one.

Georgie says, just seen an advert for sanitary pads that shows periods involve blood and not some peculiar blue liquid and can even stain your genes. I honestly believe the revolution has arrived. I think those ads have been around for a while, haven't they? But I agree with you, Georgie. I mean, thank God that's finally happened. But this one does have stained jeans and I've never seen that before. Okay, well, that's great because that's what happens. Yes, because a lot of them are still, they've gone with the red instead of the blue but they are still showing women enjoying a light trouser

white trousers there's one with green trousers on the tube for the moment that your period arrives I think they call it the gush and it kind of like no even if your pads and your tampons are brilliant I don't know a woman who gets up on

the morning that she's likely to get her period and puts on white trousers we don't do that not generally no no we don't and it's fine That's absolutely fine. I don't think that's the biggie. Can I just say it has been done in our house in a frantic effort to bring a period on? Oh, that's a good idea. And it worked most recently. So just a tip.

Yeah. That is good. A bit like eating a curry when you're very, very pregnant. Or driving fast over speed bumps. What was the other special tea? Oh, well, it's raspberry. Raspberry leaf tea. Oh, God, nothing would get me drinking that. No. Shall we do the sauce pandits Hall of Fame?

Let's just, I mean, I think this is going to go on Instagram, isn't it? It is. Who was it who started us all off on this? Oh, Sophie. Thanks Sophie. And also Sophie, because you prefaced it, didn't it, by saying, I don't think this is very interesting. Look what happened.

So if anybody else has a thought that they think is not very interesting, get in touch. Right, shall we just say thank you to Jacqueline, to Helen Barker. Have you got a favourite amongst these? I haven't right a minute. I'm just in awe of the organisational possibilities. I mean, TK.K. Max apparently, do a rack that you actually could appropriate for your saucepan lids. Yes.

But the thing with TK. Max is you never know what's going to be in, do you? No, you don't. I think a lot of other retail suppliers have been mentioned as well. Oh, yes. So IKEA's got specific racks and you can definitely get some stuff. I think Joseph Joseph was also mentioned, which is. very high quality. That's right up there, isn't it?

Very good stuff, very good stuff. So Fiona Reed, who's known as Theo, she's got a drying rack in a cupboard, which has then got a kind of tray underneath that you can pull out, you know, which would have caught your drips. My favourite, and in fact it was Eve's favourite as well. This one comes in from Benedict Hilliard,

who's listening to us in Ontario. I'm sorry, that's my stomach, who has got the most amazing butcher's hooks onto which you've put the pan and the lid on a separate part of the hook. And we just like the way that that looked in the way, Eve. So you've got to have a... You've got to have obviously a pan with a hole in the handle

in order to hook it up. And then the lid goes on the very big part of the hook. It looks beautiful. Yeah, but most lids don't have things that you can slot in. Well, that's what we were saying, because both Eve and I have got a couple of lids that just have a knob on top. This one comes in from...

Now the Usenor ornament. Jane from Stockport in Berlin. That's a very tidy draw. I only married him for his sauce pans. That comes in from Louise, but it looks like a very tidy cupboard. There's another Fiona, who sometimes fee occasionally Fio, but never ever fee-fi.

And she's got pan lids. Now she's got the special things which have been attached to the inside of the door. And someone's done that very specifically in terms of the size. So we could go on. I would just want to say hello. I don't want to leave anything. anybody out Jane. Nicole is in there, Gina is in there, Isabel Christie is in there, and an awful

lot of research has been done and sent to us by multitasking Gwen in County Dow. Oh, and then there's Erica as well. Okay, thank you all so much. I mean, there's a lot of smut out there on the internet, but there's also wonderful stuff about source pen lids and you'll be able to see more on the Jane and Fee Instagram. Just indulge yourself. Take a moment, have some tummy time, have a look. Will it change how you keep yours? It might do. I might try and get some sort of equipment in. But it's very difficult.

I've got a lot on this weekend. We often talk on this podcast about some of the difficulties and the challenges of bringing up babies and toddlers and all the rest of it. But I thought this was an interesting email from a listener who we don't need to name, but she says, I've found having adult children so much more difficult. I'm sure I can't be alone because

their problems are huge. I take a two-year-old having a tantrum because they can't have a biscuit or a teenage stroop over not being allowed out, overseeing adult children deal with real-life problems like financial worries, baby loss, day-to-day difficulties of being a mother, cars breaking down, falling out with partners, I do feel I'm carrying it all. And I still long to be able to make everything better as if they were still two. Sometimes new members of the family can be a challenge too, not the beautiful grandchildren. who fill your house with life, but your adult children's choice of partner, some of who you adore, some of whom you just have to take a deep breath.

And that emailer then sent another email to say, I hope I didn't come across as being over the top. And no, not at all, because I think everything you express is probably ringing true for a lot of people. It is easy, relatively speaking, to help a two-year-old deal with a little bit of heartache over a shortbread finger. But it's a lot more challenging when something really monumental is. happen to them and you just wish you could make it better and you know you can't. So we hear you and we're interested in how other people cope with this. I don't know what you do about partners

who fundamentally for whatever reason, it looks like they're long-term prospects and you just don't like them. But I think the answer is you have to keep your trap shut. Well it goes both ways as well and of course it might go both ways. Yeah. They might not approve of tummy time. That's a well-trodden path, the mother-in-law, the father-in-law. Yes. And we should Never ever just assume it's the mother-in-law who's the issue. Because it can quite often be the chap. Yes, very much so. Yeah.

Anyway, let us know what you think about that. I just also want to mention Daisy, who has watched us on YouTube. How do people do that? They go to YouTube and they type in Offer with Jane and Fee. Now, you did ask what people are seeing in the ads that accompany you in Technicolor. For me, she's not pleased. It was orthopedic sandals. Given I'm only 44, I think Eve should complain to the algorithm

people. Right. I'm going to put that on, Eve. Can you complain to the algorithm people? I don't know who they are, but I'll get on to it. Yeah, you do that. I'd tell you what would be absolutely fantastic. If you've got a moment, this is a fun thing to do with your partner over the weekend. Could you find out what it is that they get if they randomly type in, and I'm assuming here that your partner doesn't listen to offer with Jane and Fee? So somebody who doesn't listen to us, can you just type it in and see what comes up on their sidebar? So where are we starting from and where are we finishing up? I'd be very interested in that journey. Yeah. And, you know, male or female partner, just somebody who's not already in the hive. Shall we welcome today's

guests, you might need to turn the volume up on your headphones or on your amplifier, because our guest today is very shy and retiring, very circumspect young man. Who is it, Jane? He's always on the ball. It's Michael Ball. You're here because you've got new music. out. I have. And do you know what? I was really intrigued to read that you were working with that amazing woman, Amy. My best friend. Amy Wodge. Wodge. I mean, the surname is, it probably

has irked her. Yes. But I've interviewed her. She's such an incredible woman. I'll tell you a story about that. She was in Eastern Europe whereas they called the W's become Vs. And you... You're all right. Yeah.

But how talented is that woman? She's remarkable. We should say she's a songwriter. A songwriter, she's also a wonderful singer as well, we've duetted. She's one of the most creative, quick brains. One of the kindest people I've known. She's writing a musical now. Is she?

Which is going to be huge. She loves the musical theatre world. But her instinct for writing three minutes of, of, stunning melody with brilliant lyrics and encouraging me this is how this album came about we'd written some songs together previously we formed this incredible friendship

and you know in the middle of she's incredibly busy I've been in great she said come on let's just lock ourselves away for three weeks and sit down and see if we can write an album okay she is best known I mean she I know she is a singer-songwriter in her own right. She wrote the music for Keeping Faith,

which is a BBC show. A BBC show. And that's how we met. I really like. Because the Faith song was released. And when I was doing my radio show, I heard this and I went, we've got to play this, and I want to play it all the time.

So we kind of championed it. And it started getting traction, became a hit. And so I said, let's get her in. And she can play live and we can chat. Everyone had said to me, you should meet her. She's amazing. She came in.

It was the last show we did before lockdown. So it was the last live guest we ever had. She came in. I'd have been at the O2 the night before performing. She walked in. There's an Alicia Keys song playing. And you know when someone walks in live radio and something playing,

you have a little bit of an icebreaker. I think I know what you're going to say. I said, I love this song. It's good, isn't it? She went, oh, thank you very much. she'd written it and I didn't even know you know

and she wrote I mean Ed Sheeran's first album songs I wrote with Amy that was her Thinking out loud Thinking out loud I mean presumably Castle on the Hill

Yeah she doesn't need to work again Does she? We all do For herself Absolutely she does And so for her to say Right This is it

We're dedicating ourselves To doing this I want to make this work You need to do this for yourself So how does someone like Amy identify what is a Michael Ball song? Because she knows me so well

and she's listened to what I've recorded before. She knows my voice. She knows what I... Because we'd written some songs beforehand. And because she knows about my life and I can come in with ideas, I'd say, I've had this thought. She said, okay, we'll start writing...

Write a couplet. and you do, and instinctively she'll think, right, here's a real, and it's hard to describe the process, but it's all about channeling what's in there into something coherent in musical forms, something that, because we're both musicians, both artists, that understand what works and what doesn't, and it's about being honest with each other and going,

no, no, no, no, that's rubbish. That's got potential. So do you take criticism well? Yeah. Do you? No. No, I kind of know myself. But for example, after her mum passed, I sent her, I was messaging her.

And she was in a low place. And I put at the end of my text, remember to remember and smile. And she wrote back and said, that's the title of the song. and I went, yeah, it probably is. So then I took that. My mum passed. And I was able to channel that idea of, though someone's with you, all the sadness, all of that,

but just remember those moments. Remember the fact that wherever they are, you're carrying them with you, and they will always have that influence on your life. So it's finding the little kernels that will spark, the conversation and the story and what you want to. Or just be out and out, blatant commercial,

and come in and say, I want to write the opening to my show, the best opening number that we possibly can. I want to give people the best night of their lives. A banger. And we wrote a banger. Which one's the banger? The banger is called best.

There are two. The big banger, I think, is a song called Vintage, which was inspired by Jane Birkin's bag. I knew Jane. Did you? Yeah. Kath was very, very close with her. This is your partner, yeah.

And we had some hilarious evenings together. What is an evening with Jane Birkin? Oh, can I even say this? Yeah, I can. What the hell? So we'd been to see her. She did a concert. We were the funniest things. She came back.

So Serge, I was talking to Serge. Serge Gainesburg, who she was married to. And I said to Serge, I don't know whether I'm a woman or I'm a girl. I don't know if I'm a mother if I'm a lover. I don't know if I'm happy or I'm sad. I don't know whether I'm going forward or backward. I don't know whether I'm a... I just don't know when Sirge said quah? And I said exactly Serge,

Quah! And he's written me... It's better in French. And he's written me this song. It's called qua. Oh God. Whereas a song called What? Yeah. What? I mean, you should, maybe you and Amy get together and write that.

Right. But she, so the song Vintage came, because after she died, she had an old took, the Birkin bag was made for her, designed for her. And she used it like a bit of old tit, tut. This most revered of handbags in... Yes, I mean, for those people who aren't expert in that, what were the dimensions of a burking bag? It was neither big nor small...

Yeah, neither... You could get a load of stuff in it, great to travel with, great on a plane. Right. She met the head of Hermes on a plane and he said, what would you need? She said, oh, I want something that I can travel with, but it's big enough, so it's still a handbag. Would she be okay with the impersonation? I hope so. I'm sure she would.

She'd find it funny. I find it funny, so. She was a great self-deprecator. Was she? She really was. Yeah, it's such a stylish one. Oh, my, and beautiful and kind and generous and not a fact, just not of this world kind kind of thing. She'd had such an extraordinary life.

Yeah. But when she passed her Birkin bag, They always gave a load. And it was, she'd put stickers on it. She, you know, it was a bit of to, it went and sold for 10 million. Yeah. Yeah.

So I thought, okay, that's not secondhand. That's vintage and it's pre-owned and it's pre-loved, which is what people say nowadays. Yes, pre-loved. Which is what I think we could call any of us of a certain age. We are vintage. We're pre-owned and pre-loved, and we're as precious if not more precious.

Put that with your dating profile. Pre-loved. See what happens. So that's the banger. Vintage. You always seem to be a man who's in sort of relentless good spirits, and I have it on authority from my colleague and producer here, young Evelyn. It sounds patronising to call her that, Evelyn,

that you are a nicotine patch person. Literally in the lift, Evelyn. She said to me, so do you drink a lot of coffee? coffee because you've always got this. I said no, but I do use snus. Jane, it's better than the amount I used to smoke and vape. Yeah, but how does a singer smoke and vape, Michael? I don't get that. Very well. But you must have had doctors screaming at you.

Oh, God, yes, although, do you know, it was a kind of, when I was younger, it was a kind of bravado. I just smoked. I'm a terrible addict for it. But I'd be in the studio. You can't do it nowadays. But I, you know, love will never, never let you be. The same winding people up. It's outrageous that you got away with it. Well, then I stopped getting away with it.

And I'm going, you notice something. So I went on to, it was during the, I gave up for eight years and then started again on a film set with Victoria Wood. It's another story. Okay.

And I was back with a vengeance. Then I'm doing the Lamey's All-Star concert, 2018, 2019, and I'm going, eight shows a week with this big singing, I could tell. And somebody advised me about these heat heated tobacco substitutes

was on those. But the trouble, and that was much better for my voice. But I was like 40 a day of these things. You know, madness. Yeah. And then Amy, God bless you, Amy, said, this is what you need,

these nicotine. So it's just there. So I have, when I'm singing on the stage, I sometimes have it there, but I always have a vocal zone up there. So my mouth is full when I'm singing. Okay. It's whatever gets you through, Jane. I'm sure you read with interest what Andrew Lloyd Weber

has recently told the world about his alcoholism. Yes. I mean, really brave and something that so many people battle with. Did you have any inkling that he was really, really struggling? How do we how It's probably not correct for me to say anything But yes, Andrew liked to drink And I

And naturally it affects you You know if you're As he is now public He said the amount he was drinking But he had access I remember going to see his wine cellars in Sidminton Just extraordinary I mean, I don't mean to be facetious at all,

but he could really afford the good stuff, couldn't you? And then some. Yeah. And it was. So it was magnificent wines. And, you know, for him like Vinto, just, I'll have another pliny montresche on the go. And the stress of the job,

and that was his outlet. And when he stopped, and I can understand, God bless him, when Nick passed his son, I think that he'd got it in control and then that kicked off again. The great thing is to have acknowledged it and to have now been public about it. I think that does make a difference.

I mean, not that anyone should feel that they have to be public about it. No, no, no. No, but I think for someone like him, I think sharing it and putting out there gives him that added impetus to keep it under control and to help others because there's no question that sharing that kind of influence, the right person at the right time, it does have an impact.

And people will then start looking at themselves and their own habits and their own possible addictions. So I think it's a really brave and a really useful thing to do. Now, you are a man of many, many talents and you are, I understand, performing next week. This is Evelyn again. She's very good, you know. It's not confirmed. I am never, ever speaking in a lift again. I just don't imagine because I... Do you want to talk about

she now knows I've got two artificial hips I expect you're going to be talking about that? It's just that my friend of mine's just had a second hip replacement. Oh! No, you've said it now so I'm not going to... Right, let's move on seamlessly to hit replacements. This is supposed to be a serious radio station.

I'm a journalist. Clearly. With good sources. Now a friend of my Michael has recently, she's still at home recovering from her second hit replacement. It's no laughing matter but she's in good company because I understand that you too have been through this.

I have, thank you for asking. It makes me feel quite vintage and pre-owned and pre-loved. Yeah, it was awful. I was in Australia, I've had this hit hurting for three years and it was getting worse and worse. She's her left hip. Left hip. The right hip, or as I like to call it,

the Gillian Lynn Memorial hip. was done a while back because of chitty-chitty bang-bang. Doing me old bamboo eight shows a week when you're not a trained dancer. God imagine. Yeah, so I had that done ages ago. So this one, it's feeling bad, but I'm going to Australia to do the arena tour of Les Mis.

And I fly out there a week after I'd arrived, I'm going, this is not great. This is really hurting. What is hip pain like? Oh, it's sort of around, it's not in your hip so much, it's in your groin. and down your leg and it's persistent. And it's constant.

And then something will happen and it's acute. But it is chronic and constant. And so wearing. I was then having, had this issue. Went and saw a physiotherapist. You said, this is really bad. Went and I said, oh, slap a cortisone injection in it. I'll get through the next eight weeks.

And then I'll go home and have it seen to. did that two days I'm like Nijinsky I'm leaping there's no pain nothing's wrong everything's great after two days I went I can't walk so went and had an MRI and a C do you know what I asked for one

I wasn't insured but I said I need this to be seen six o'clock in the evening 1 o'clock in the afternoon I'm having it and I got the results at 3 o'clock and it cost me 200 That's not bad. Not bad. It's unreal. 200 quid for that.

Amazing. Anyway, the... On the NHS you'd still be waiting, basically. Three years. Absolutely, the pressure they're under, but you can wait three years in that kind of pain. Anyway, so they looked at it, said the ligament had rochered and severed,

it was bone on bone, bruise bone, there's nothing they can do. So I said, well, can I make it worse? They said, well, no. I said, right, well, I'll try and get through the show and have it seen when I come back. Wow, that is the show must go on. Do you see how very troopery I am?

That is super trooper. So I would have to have a crutch to get me to the side of the stage. And then playing Javert, I then thought, well, Javert could have a bad hip. It's quite plausible. You gird your loins and you get on there and you use that pain and that torment, and you deliver your performance. I actually missed two performances because of it when I literally couldn't walk. Got back on, uh,

on the Tuesday, sorry, got back on the Monday from Australia, saw someone on the Tuesday a week later. Luckily, I have health insurance that covered it. And two and a half weeks after the full replacement, I was without a stick, and I went to the opening night of Evita, and nobody knew, I mean, it hurt, but nobody knew. It's a miracle. Right. And do you feel so, so much better?

I mean, yeah, you don't realize what living with chronic pain is like. pain is like until it's gone. Right. Okay. And then you, you know, you don't sleep. You don't, nothing can give you much joy. And it's totally transformative. Way better than I've ever been. So are you a gym person?

Look at me, Jane. Are you a gym person? Look, I've got a big tour coming up in August and doing shows, so you have to be fit. So I dip my toe. I do, I do. do. And I've just had, and I've used it once, an elliptical cross-trainer delivered. Yeah. So, so yes. And of course, as you get older, you need to do more about that. You have to keep moving and keep doing. So I'm not like, I wouldn't call myself a gym person. I'm a reluctant,

I need to do something for my fitness levels if I'm going to get through these shows. Yeah. And these shows are showcasing these songs and you want to, you want to do Amy Justice. I want to do her justice. Yeah. And you're just, and you want to do it. And you You know, and you also have all the songs from the back catalogue as well, all the musicals you've been doing. So do you do, is it love changes everything right at the end? Can you imagine if I didn't? I don't normally do it at the end.

Oh, you don't? Not at the very end. I sometimes do. I've used it for what we call false tabs. What does that mean? False tabs is where... Just pause. We're entering a showbiz world.

False tabs is where you go, you finish the big song that you hope will achieve. the standing ovation and you go off knowing full well you're going to come back and do three more songs. So needy. But everyone loves an encore. So that's what false tabs is. Right. It's always a joy.

Michael, thank you very much. My pleasure. You are absolutely. Michael Ball. So just beware, and I mean that in the most positive way, imaginable. if you do see him live and he's gone off stage, he'll very much be back. He's only playing with you. He's always going to do at least one encore.

And the album, Glow, is out next week. Has anybody out there been to a gig, which was so disappointing that the audience has left before the uncle. When the artist comes back for the encore. Encores are funny things, aren't they? Because we do always know that they're going to happen. Oh, totally.

I mean, and you... But there is that element of will they? won't they? Will she? Of course she will. Of course. Yeah. And actually quite often, it just appears in the set list.

Because you can always find the set list. Somebody puts it off on the internet. I think that ruins it a bit. I wouldn't want to know. I don't really care. I've heard the biggest hits of the biggest bands from car parks across the world chain. You're one of those people.

I'd rather just get on the tube, get on the train, get out of the stadium. Because it's the biggest hit. And actually, I'm lying. I mean, sometimes the concert will be so good. great. You don't want it to end, so you want to stay to the very last drop. But equally, I think we can all admit we've been to gigs where you just think, yeah, that was great and

I'm fine now. So, you know, I'll, I will literally, I will sing angels from the car park, Robin, it will be okay. Yeah, I mean, look, I quite like going out, but most of all, I like going out so I can come home, really. So, yeah, I probably leave early too. Are you an early lever? Let us know. Yeah. Jane and Fee at Time to Top Radio. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app.

Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the Exhares. Executive producer is Rosie Cutler.