Off Air... with Jane and Fi - My perplexometer is off the charts - with Amanda Owen

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Jane and Fi chat £58 sheep, giving birth in the living room and the challenges of modern farming with Yorkshire Shepherdess Amanda Owen. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producer: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Podcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There's nothing more tedious than people saying, I'm in a different studio today. I'm not expecting anyone to be interested. But we are in a different studio today. I do hope expecting anyone to be interested. But we are in a different studio today. I do hope people are interested. What? Right. Hello. Hello, everybody. It's a new working week here at Times Radio Towers and welcome to Off Air with Jane and Fi. I thought we'd just be a bit more professional this week. I mean, it's already got off to a slightly false start. Well, you were waiting for a very long time.

I was just reading through some very interesting emails and then it says at the top, Woffden, reflect on the day, discuss what was in the programme and anything you've been pondering since. I just thought, God, that's an awful lot, actually. I mean, how long have you got? Well, it was interesting because we talked in the last half hour of the programme

to an eminent Swedish professor about the lack of female crash test dummies. And it was infuriating, wasn't it? Absolutely infuriating. I learnt so much from that interview because she said that it is not inherent on the motoring manufacturing industry globally to take any notice of research that uses female crash test dummies so all safety mechanisms in cars are based on male crash test dummies with the obvious implications that if the average is a five foot nine i don know, 80kg to 100kg male, it's going to be a completely different outcome in a crash to a maybe 5'2", 50kg to 60kg woman.

So that's stereotyping the bodies, but you get her point. And I just would have thought, Jane, it would be illegal by now not to have to include women in any kind of safety survey that you're doing. I'm completely perplexed. I'm flabbergasted. Extra gassed. Yes, the more gassed, we're flabbered and we're perplexed. My perpleximometer is off the scale.

And it was already being severely tested by Nadeem Zahawi and Boris Johnson and Richard Sharp. So there we are. So now we've finally, I think we might have reached peak perplexion as far as I'm concerned. Well, I'm really going to think about it the next time I get in the car. So I always have to, and you're the same height as me, I have to ratchet the seat forward to a level it almost doesn't want to go to in order to work the pedals. There's a certain amount of resistance, isn't there? What? Are you sure? to go to in order to work the pedals there's a certain amount of resistance so i just sure i know

for a fact that the car is just simply built for somebody bigger than me but i hadn't really thought about safety implications i'd assumed because i've bought that car myself jane do you know what a man has not bought it for me really really i assume taking a man with you no don't be silly no i did it all by myself. Goodness me. Back in the day, I used to ask someone to come with me, but I buy my cars all on my own now. I just assumed that as the purchaser of that car, somebody had thought about the fact that I'd be driving it.

Honestly, that makes me really livid. Well, I get actually quite angry. I drive a Mini, I think it's OK to mention that, and I would never drive a Countryman, because I don't see why they shouldn't say country woman interesting yeah I drive a Monte Carlo

do you? it's a Skoda and Southport sold out it's a Skoda Monte Carlo and I do wonder whether the streets of Monte Carlo are full of Skodas oh no they will be well they will be now

they've got their own special of course they're going to Skodas. Oh, no, they will be. Well, they will be now. They've got their own special. Of course, they're going to be loyal to the Skoda, aren't they? I actually really love a Skoda. It's incredibly simple. There's no fuss or faff on the dashboard at all. And it's done the business for me. They've got me for life, actually, but it did make me laugh.

The top gear are recruiting. We're very much available. I should say i was just boring young kate with the news that i had to have a new battery fitted at the weekend kate you're right and she didn't she didn't show any interest the most time around um and i was helped out by a very very nice person who came to came to the house but um because it was one of those you know when you've got a car you should really drive it in cold weather shouldn't you well you need to work up your dynamo don't you this is it you can't just leave it you actually have to go out and drive it and i'd

completely neglected to do so well that's your next weekend isn't it out for a little sunday i mean nobody does i am of an age where i can remember going out for a drive yeah one of the single most tedious things you could ever do well this is pre-traffic so you know the odd horse and cart on the road and us in the Vauxhall Viva going for a drive. I think we ought to start a bit of a campaign though, Jane. I just think that's so wrong. These days, most car adverts have moved away

from showing a man driving the car. And so there are loads of women being sold, women driving. And actually, if we're not being thought about in terms of safety, we're only being thought about in terms of our purchase power, then they can do one. I think that's entirely reasonable, to be honest with you. Anyway, we've got to get on with this because you need to go home and see if you can think of a friend of yours who can loan me

about £800,000 at short notice. Oh, God, you're you're absolutely right sorry i've got to apply for chairwomanship of the bbc tonight you've got that to do so we've got a lot on our collective plate uh now who was our guest it was amanda rowan who um she is a remarkable woman she is uh where where fee and i are are not she has strengths she's six foot two and she she kind of she actually said to us that she'd rather be our height this wasn't part of the interview this was off air wasn't it which is appropriate because that's the name of this podcast um and i i never i'm never sure i believe that of tall people that they'd rather have been our sort of height i don't know she looked amazing didn't she well she did and i slightly i don't always want to start an interview with commenting on how somebody looks.

I just have. No, no. But I did it in the studio today. But it was because she just looked so amazing. I mean, you know, if you wanted to advertise the advantages of a rural life, a very successful television career as well, and having nine bairns, then you'd look to Amanda Owen. She just looked, I mean, I'd just be on my knees. I'd look frightening if I'd

had nine children, Jane. I wouldn't be able to get out of the ladies. Queen Victoria is the only other person I can think of who had nine children. What about Boris Johnson? Oh, that's why he needs the money. I'm a fool to myself, actually.

Anyway, for anybody who doesn't know, do you want to describe who Amanda Rowan is? She is the Yorkshire shepherdess. So she came to prominence in the public eye because she did this Channel 5 series with her then-husband, Clive. They're no longer together. I think they're only separated

aren't they where she took uh you the viewer on a journey around the farm the life of the farm the life with the kids it was really wonderful stuff it was one of channel five's most successful television programs ever she decided that she wanted to become a shepherdess even though she doesn't really have farming in her blood she grew grew up in suburban Huddersfield and just decided that she wanted to work with animals and hit upon the idea of becoming a shepherdess, which is what she has done. She had a very successful series on Channel 5, but now she's moved to...

More 4. And she's made six really interesting programmes all about the farming lives of other people. So she's left Ravenseat and she's roaming the British Isles talking to farming families. And in the very first one, she goes to Shven seat and she's roaming the british isles talking to farming families and in the very first one she goes to shetland and it's absolutely beautiful it's called amanda owens farming lives and when she came into the studio we did start by complimenting her on her appearance as you should never do but we did mainly me so jane and i were

just saying in the studio and you'll probably be able to watch this interview later on the youtube channel you put us to shame so you've come in here you look absolutely beautiful you look well maintained yeah manicured well turned out not weathered no not at all no healthy healthy is this a welcome break for you when you come and do things like this from being on a windswept hillside? Absolutely. I mean, I was up early this morning to get a few jobs knocked out before I set off on the train. Now, what kind of jobs? I brought a horse back in. I actually made up some breakfast and teas for horses, sorted out the fridge, sorted out a few sandwich boxes, told a few children off and basically micromanaged,

which is what I spend a lot of time doing. Fingers crossed I haven't had any calls to say anything's gone wrong. So hopefully things are okay. And when you're away from the farm, because you're so responsible for so many children and so much livestock, does it stay with you? Is there the constant clicking? A little bit. In the back of your mind? Have I shut that gate? Shut the gate, the countryside code, of course. Yeah, I mean, it's all kind of logged in there. I'm not a great list person. So there isn't a sort of huge master plan.

Should I drop off the mortal coil? Nobody could find the list and keep everything sort of ticking over. But the way we've raised the kids is that they are quite independent. They do a lot of stuff for themselves. You see, there was method in the madness. So, you know, they do, you know, they do have the tasks. They do have the jobs. They do a lot for themselves.

Obviously, Clive is there. We're co-parenting. That's how you term things. And he is overseeing things. And hopefully things will do me a liking when I get back. That's what you have to do. You have to juggle, don't you? Yes, we hope so too.

I'm spinning plates, mate. We hope so too. What do you think the stereotype might be of farmers in this country for those who don't know much about the farming community oh czech shirt lumberjack shirt i don't know um quite a lot of facial hair male perhaps male perhaps i don't know i do believe there's um a farmer on love island actually oh there is yeah will, Will. There you go. You see, I wasn't imagining it. I haven't watched it, but I've been told all about it.

So he's there smashing stereotypes. I think, yeah, there is a sort of general consensus and picture in people's minds. It's got to be Wellies, Shepherd's Crook, Sheepdog at my sides at all times. That's what they think. And do you think it's a sympathetic kind of view of farmers or not really?

I don't. To be quite honest with you, it doesn't it doesn't bother me. You know what you're sort of what your idea is of a farmer, what that should actually actually be. I just know that I do my job and I do it well. And I've always found it an industry that's very welcoming, opening and accepting of whoever you are. If you're keen and if you're willing. I don't think it matters what you wear, what sex you wear. It's part of the remit of the programme on Channel 4, though, because you're visiting other farmers now,

to try and kind of, I don't know, tell a more realistic story of what life on the land is. Yes. 71% of our land is farmed isn't it it's it's a very upbeat program it is it does tackle some of the challenges that farms are facing because it's not an easy time i mean there's a cost of living crisis obviously that has been very much um at the forefront of people's minds and it's the same in the countryside we have a cost of living crisis a food crisis but i feel like the crisis that's going on in farming is basically we we don't know what people

want it feels like everybody wants everything you know we want the landscapes we want the view we want the cheap food we want high welfare we want a place for recreation we want green energy it's really difficult to be everything to all people so it was great not having the spotlight on me and going out and seeing how other people are doing it how they're coping because of course the buzzword is diversification how to make your farm profitable and that's that's not easy there's not a one size fits all. So for some people, it might be tourism. For others, it might be creating energy. For others, it might be sort of getting closer to their point of sale and selling their products direct to the consumer. And it was those stories. diversification because i mean you've done it i mean you are the living embodiment of how to diversify but i read an interview in which you said that actually you earn more money out of taking images of your sheep yeah than you do out of your sheep that's a travesty isn't it well it is actually isn't it last tuesday last tuesday if you'd have come to the auction mat with me a fat lamb at the auction mat a swaledale a native bred lamb that will be 10 months old.

It's had a good life. It's been grazed naturally out on the moors into the auction mart, £58. Right. In money. And it cost you how much to raise? Goodness, that's the point. When it comes to doing the maths, you will never know the cost that goes into sort of being a grazier and livestock farming and our costs have gone up just like everybody else's your cost of feed your cost of electricity diesel everything it's it's a tough job to be in and of course the subsidies are coming out of it so you know the market well we're being squeezed we're being squeezed and diversification for me

it was like looking about what I could do to to basically make the farm profitable and of course we're a quite big family and quite accidentally I stumbled upon the fact there was more people out and about walking and rambling and I could serve them cups of tea it was as simple as that that was a little little diversification. It was, it was, it began there, the conversation with the people coming through, talking to them, which of course led to being on the television and led to being asked if I wanted to do some writing. And that's where it all began. And look at you now, Amanda. Oh, it's just made me a whole lot busier.

What do other farmers who you've met in these travels for the Channel 4 show think about your diversification? Are they grateful to you for shining a light on farming? Is there a bit of jealousy? And what about Clarkson? What about Clarkson? Right, well, I feel like it's one of those things that, again, I've alluded to before, there isn't a one-size-fits-all.

What works for one farm doesn't work for another. Obviously, there are farms that are picturesque and attract the tourists. There are farms that are more functional, should we say. You've got, you know, you've got your extensive farming, you've got your more intensive farming. I guess it's about looking at your location and seeing what you can actually do with it. One of the farms that I went to, they were farming on a small went to um they were farming on a small acreage and they were farming pigs and they I mean to be a pig farmer now that is a very tough way to earn a living but they had managed to make um sort of an artisan product they were making salamis cured meats and actually selling it direct to the consumer so they were managing

to make ends meet but it requires it requires quite a lot of multitasking, multi-skills. In other words, the farmer that we talked about before, that's wearing his green wellies and maybe doesn't say so much, has to all of a sudden become a people person. He has to embrace the internet. He has to do many things. He's not going to be as instagram ready as your good self exactly uh would you rather we didn't press you on the subject of jeremy clarkson

what can i say about him um farmers love him i'm absolutely sure of that because he he highlights the problems of farming even in sort of um even under his umbrella of humor and doing it all wrong he has absolutely brought to the nation um how difficult the job is so so so yes and when we talked before about you know um farmers and stereotypes he of course is not a born and bred farmer same as me so you have to farming covers a broad church. It covers anything and everybody. It covers somebody who is on a hill end farming sheep. It can cover somebody who is, you know, pretty much an agronomist and growing cereals. It can even cover people like Jeremy Clarkson, who had nothing to do with farming and and knew into it i was very struck the two sisters who you meet on shetland in episode one of the series that they are the seventh generation of their family to farm that land and i was struck that you said you rather envied them that kind of connection because you're a first generation farmer but surely that is the massive problem

for some modern farmers that they don't want to be the one who ends their farming tradition. That's a massive pressure, isn't it? Of course it is. It's like that balance, isn't it? It's, you know, the traditional element is there, certainly in the kind of farming that we do, for sure. You know, it's been going on for centuries. I personally don't have that tie with the land that they did. But times are changing.

And you do have to, to a certain degree, move with the times and sort of read the room. That's incredibly tough. Very tough. Would you ever be able to walk away from your farm? I don't think so. I don't think so. I see myself as a custodian. So you're there, you know,

you are the keeper. I think if anything, farming, shepherding, you're very mindful of the passing of the seasons, the passing of time. You know, you think to yourself, you just have a limited time and what mark would you like to leave on the land? And for me, it's kind of a sense of pride, keeping the walls up, keeping the farm looking good. And I'm me it's kind of a sense of pride keeping the walls up keeping the farm looking good and I'm fortunate that the kind of farming that we do is traditional and it is the embodiment of actually what people are wanting what they're talking about now the wildlife the biodiversity the ground nesting birds the hay meadows the triple triple SSIs, peatland restoration, that's what we're doing because it's carbon capture. All of a sudden, these ideas that are being sort of rebranded and rehashed into

a new way of thinking, a new way of farming, is actually how it always was. All that happened was at some point, people got greedy, the the system sort of the system became too big too quickly and farms like ours I believe are the way forward can we just put a quick question to you from a listener in Berkshire it's basically about the prices that supermarkets charge so well yeah well you mentioned you got what 58 for that lamb And then you go to the supermarket and a leg of lamb isn't cheap. So where does it start to go wrong? Who is making the money here? Middlemen, of course it is.

You see, the issue is, of course, farming is on the cusp of change. The subsidies are coming out of farming. Who has been subsidised? If you think about it, it's probably highly likely that farmers were able to operate just breaking even maybe even making a slight loss or a small profit and those subsidies were able to sort of keep things going now those subsidies are going the problem is the supermarkets and the buyers want the same want their same profits their same cut we don't set price. We just have to go and see what people are willing to give. You're listening to Off Air with Jane and Fi,

and we've been speaking to Amanda Owen, the Yorkshire shepherdess. We asked her in the second part of our interview with her how Brexit had affected the farm. To be quite honest with you, it destroyed our market. That's absolutely what it did. The type of land we farm, we're a country that has a lot of marginal land that is only suitable for grazing livestock,

sheep, in other words. And we had markets in Europe, Spain, Greece, France, they all wanted the lightweight lambs that we supplied. But unfortunately now, that market is pretty much shut off from us. So, you know, we can't change what we farm, particularly on a farm like ours. It's a tenanted farm. It's Raven's Heap Farm.

It's a tenanted farm. What does that mean, actually, to those of us who are not farm? It means that the farm belongs to a landowner. Okay. You know, we don't own the farm. We pay rent on the farm. And do you know what comes with the farm belongs to a landowner. Okay. You know, we don't own the farm. We pay rent on the farm. And do you know what comes with the farm? Sheep.

You rent the sheep. It's no good me saying, oh, well, lamb trade's terrible. I'm going to do something else this year. You actually take the sheep as well. And should you ever leave the farm, the sheep remain. It's a huge flock. They belong on the land. They have a homing instinct

right will you benefit from leveling up at all do you know i doubt it i doubt i doubt very much once upon a time 20 years ago i used to feel like i was sort of master of me on destiny i was on meal end nothing could touch me i was doing my own thing. I was Cathy out of Wuthering Heights. How many kids did you have at that point, Amanda? Probably zero. Well, exactly. Me and my thoughts and my ideas. Fabulous.

Yeah, looking out over the land. Everything's unchanged unless an aeroplane goes across overhead. But, you know, you're in this sort of wilderness. You're in this place that time forgot. Your phone can't ring there's no mobile coverage it's a step back in time then you realize the world seems to get smaller you get your connections you get your you get your internet in we still don't have mobile coverage but but somehow those connections bring with you the everyday stresses and you realize that this place is,

we're all interconnected and you are subject to global forces, just the same as everybody else. So it suggests to me that you're not all that confident that you will be levelled up any time soon. There's a distinct lack of confidence. Okay.

And actually, when you come down to London, I say come down because you have travelled to the South and the Burble is all about Nadeem Zahawi and his taxes. Does it just seem like a distant dream, Raven Seed? Well, it seems you never kind of, you never, it never really leaves you. I mean, it's probably still in my head.

It's probably still a little bit so strong and God knows what in there as we speak. But it is kind of a mindset. It affects your whole being, your whole character. I feel like a place like that moulds who you actually are. I feel like it gives you something. Those freedoms that I talked about from 20 years ago, standing there you know in this open space I feel like that is what I suppose was the kick up the backside it's given me the the the sort of freedom to do things well on to the nine children uh because it's actually illegal to do an interview with you without mentioning the nine children and the eighth one I think you gave birth to is it in front of the fire on your

tod you didn't bother waking up your no i was really fed up with giving birth at the side of the road and i didn't really want how many did you had at the side of the road uh six oh six six um and two in hospital so you so yeah the the the the problem was that we talk about leveling up but actually everything was moving further away from us hospital services everything else and i decided that as the they'd moved the goals posts and the hospital was rather further away that actually i wouldn't even set off this time it was great i was really happy with it that was time eight what time nine time nine i had to set off again because that was too early she was premature

but everything was alright everything was alright and I mean just literally 3 weeks before Christmas we had another medical emergency on the farm and that was a scary one

whereby one of the children was taken ill and that involved um a helicopter coming the air ambulance coming to pick us up and it's that moment you know people say it must be amazing you know living rural living sort of living where you do that's one of the drawbacks right right well that sounds very dramatic everything's all right there as well is it everything absolutely is all right absolutely is all right but yeah it was um it was a scary moment do any of your kids really not like the rural existence well they haven't said so they haven't mentioned it yet but they're quite within their rights to to to decide that they want nothing more to do with farming. We bring them up to be independent, free-thinking kids who have to make their own choices.

When Raven went to university, I always pointed out that if she got so that she only had a pound in her pocket, not to ever buy sausages, and she must definitely go vegetarian or even vegan, I don't mind. They're their own people. They have their own way of thinking we are there literally to lead them give them hopefully some life lessons that will set

them up fantastically for whatever they want to be not just farmers we're not just sort of there to sort of breed nine farmers farming factory no violet wants to be a doctor she said yesterday i mean whether she is she's um very intelligent she gets good grades i think a bedside manner would be rubbish because she spends her time dealing with animals how old is she now she is 12 okay she has got time yes to improve her bedside manner i have read amanda that of an evening you like to work out on the treadmill and occasionally wind down with an absinthe oh my goodness what have you been reading right okay right uh both of those things i find extraordinary i'm hoping you're watering down the absinthe it's a mighty strong

drink so how do you have enough energy to want to go on a treadmill i do a day on the farm i haven't i haven't i must admit since christmas i am feeling that i've rather neglected the treadmill it depends what's going on on the farm uh say since Christmas we've had some pretty dire weather we had a lot of rain and a lot of wind and the sheep they were they were hurling they were standing with the backs up they were hating it I was doing the same it was just waterproof sort of drips on the end of my nose it was just dreadful then it froze and then it snowed um so like this weekend i don't think we've we've stopped it has just been so full-on because the land is frozen the sheep and the cows are hungry you have to get into a bit more of a sort of regimented system during the winter so there's actually a

lot of lifting carrying running about so i have been And no, I don't drink absinthe every night. That was Amanda Owen, the Yorkshire shepherdess. Lots of people in the building were really, really thrilled to meet her. I mean, John Pienaar's not that easy to impress. And he was completely agog. Yep. Yeah, he really was. I wonder if she'll feature in the King's Coronation concert.

Why would she? Well, because he's very keen on farming. And at one point he was heading a campaign to bring back mutton. I do remember... Well, you've got to be very careful about saying that. No, he was. I know he was. He was putting his full weight behind the return of mutton.

Yes, I remember that. Which is old lamb, isn't it old sheep it's almost impossible not to go for a gag there no but we both resisted it yeah and i thought it was excellent so i was i was just thinking of someone who could reasonably hope to be a compare but i mean i don't see how they're going to stop katherine jenkins taking part well you're quite excited because the news out of the palace today is that king Charles is going to choose his own Spotify playlist for his coronation, and it's going to be all classical tinkles. So there's going to be none of this Brian May up a turret.

We're not going to see Sam Ryder in a Diamante jumpsuit. Catherine Jenkins is not allowed out of Wales. It's just going to be non-stop bark. And you seem to think that this is going to set the nation's pulses racing. I don't think it'll do that, but I think it's fitting for a gent of his age. Oh, no, come on, because he used to love the Supremes, didn't he? No, it wasn't the Supremes, it was the three degrees. He used to love the three degrees.

It's rumoured to have been very close to one of the three degrees. I don't know which degree. One degree of separation. I bloody just wish the temperature would go up. I know that much. I can't. I tell you what, this weather is proving to me that I could not live in a cold country. It's so brutal. Have you been invited to?

The Swedes are always on at me to move there. Have you ever seen something as a new discovery, but I tell you what, I should be visiting it again, probably every on a daily basis. The Daily Star's Text Maniacs page um so the daily star has given up on asking for letters uh it just wants listeners readers readers sorry it reads readers to text them so i'll just give you a sample here we are would love a lewis capaldi

and james arthur duet that's it i mean it wouldn't be printed by the Times but the Daily Star have given it space And Lewis Capaldi and who? James Arthur duet Oh no Do you know what that would be that would be so sincere and sad wouldn't it

Yes it would I was once at a I think you were there the radio event where the young Lewis Capaldi performed before he was Lewis Capaldi. And you weren't particularly enamoured of him, I seem to recall. I can't see this catching on. It's just, it's a right old, oh, my God.

It was very sad. His song was very sad. But he delivered it really beautifully. It was one of those strange internal events there, wasn't it? It was when the BBC was handing out gongs to people who worked for the BBC. Yes. We didn't get one, we were just presenting one. It was all a little bit suspect. This is pre-

Richard Sharp. Anyway, yes, so Louis Cabot is another one who doesn't need to worry about being available for the Coronation concert because you just won't be required. Right, okay. Emails. Oh, so do you want to just start off with the one from Susan? It's the short

one at the end, Jane. What a mean-spirited aside you made regarding Jacinda Ardern's resignation, implying it was due to selfish reasons. Shame on you from Susan. I don't think it was selfish reasons. I just said that you didn't have to be the sharpest political analyst in the toolbox

of global rail politic to recognise that she wasn't going to win the election. Yep. And I think she's absolutely blooming marvellous and one of the finest female politicians ever to step foot on the earth. A great deal in her plus positive box. But sometimes, you know, sometimes the voters are coming at you and it might be better to duck out of their way. I mean, I could think of a few British examples of people who should have done the same thing. What I do admire about her is that she said she wasn't up to it. Yeah, and she said she was human

and she just didn't have enough fuel in the tank. Absolutely, and that is to be admired. I'm very interested to see what she does next. Yeah. Do you know what? On a serious note, not that all of that wasn't serious enough, and that is to be admired. I'm very interested to see what she does next. Yeah. Do you know what, on a serious note, not that all of that wasn't serious enough, but I think she did bring an empathy and a very unashamed empathy to the job.

So when she was comforting people and doing the rounds, I think sometimes you can slightly sniff it when they're not really engaged with the people that they're talking to. You know, there'll be a little shot of them getting into the car, a little bit like Madonna with the antibacterial hand wash once when she'd been visiting somewhere in Malawi. So there just never seemed to be anything of that about Jacinda. So I think she shifted the goalposts a bit in a very good way.

There were people who, back in the 80s, about Jacinda. So I think she shifted the goalposts a bit in a very good way. There were people who, back in the 80s, during Margaret Thatcher's pomp, used to claim to carry cards saying that if they were involved in any kind of national tragedy, they did not wish to be visited in hospital by Margaret Thatcher. I'd like to see one of those cards in a museum now. It's possible they were just made up.

Anyway, Susan, thank you for getting in touch. We don't mind criticism on the programme at all and sometimes Jade and I do disagree about things. Only occasionally, though. Well, that's nonsense for a start. Hello, Jade and Fee, as a long-time listener from the other place. Shh. I was looking forward to the new podcast.

However, after a prolonged illness and the Christmas silly season, I finally googled aghast to find I'd missed four podcasts a week since October. Oh, come on. So, Karen has done an immersive experience. Oh, no, poor Karen, don't. I know. During the eight days between January 2nd and January 10th, Karen has listened to the whole back catalogue in real time.

You both mentioned last week that you get a bit of a buzz from knowing that people are listening to you in Australia, so I thought I'd let you know what we got up to during real time. You both mentioned last week that you get a bit of a buzz from knowing that people are listening to you in Australia so I thought I'd let you know what we got up to during this time. Are you ready for this? Yes. We went on many walks on the beach in 36 degree temperatures, more long walks in the bush around Perth and on the Swan River, even more dog walks and waiting for medical appointments. We did a lot of shopping, a spring clean, a trip to the car wash, two big shops, bulk cooking of healthy 2023 food. We also hung out for an intense 48-hour period while I had a spectacularly bad UTI. My husband also learnt my particular sign language for not now.

Jane and I are talking. I did start to get a Pavlovian response to the off-air theme tune music and I think I definitely did a bit of out loud chatting back to you while we were together you will continue to join me in my life just a little less intensely now I'll be sharing you with my audio book thank you from the bottom of my heart well Karen mostly I hope that the UTI cleared up yeah I really do too is there anything nastier than a savage UTI no and over the Christmas season that's really really unhelpful so I hope everything's better now Karen you're a very brave woman and you know maybe

maybe don't go for the whole lot in quite such quick succession because that cannot leave you anything other than boss-eyed it may even be possible that's what brought on the UTI I don't want to take responsibility for that sorry I'm just thinking

sorry I must have brought back some memories of my own there karen right okay yes utis always get help um you can't just rely on cranberry juice i know people just say i'll drink some cranberry but i'm afraid it isn't actually enough on its own i was once very gratified to discover that uh one of those supermarkets that barely ever closes they all stock cystitis relief. Did you know that? Well, that is very good to know. But I think quite often a UTI really does need an antibiotic. But if you're absolutely desperate, if it's 10 o'clock at night, and it's one of those supermarkets that doesn't close till 11, I'm here to tell you, they do sell cystitis relief.

That is public service, isn't it? Very much so. This is from Jane. Love your your podcast but i'm often catching up with several episodes at a time i was listening to your january the 10th episode today and i was taken back to my days at primary school when jane recounted her efforts at swimming galas inevitably coming last because she couldn't dive and was allowed to push off from the side i'm 66 but i still remember how i also couldn't dive but was always put in school swimming galas because i was a good swimmer.

Unlike you, Jane, I was encouraged to stand on the starting block, but I was allowed to jump in if I really felt I couldn't dive, and I knew I couldn't, so I also trailed in last. In what turned out to be my very last gala, I made the decision to try and dive, even though I'd never dived before, let alone off a starting block. I braced myself and as the klaxon sounded, I went for it. I think I did a combination of a jump and a belly flop into the

water, which wasn't a pretty sight, but once I reached the surface, I swam for my life. I'd like to say at this point I came in first or second even, but halfway through I was overcome with stomach cramp and had a life belt on a rope thrown out to me to help pull me to the side so I could be helped out. Jane, I'm sorry to hear about that, but God loves a trier. Yes. Did you have a heated swimming pool at school? We didn't have a school swimming pool. It was Liverpool. Okay. We had a kind of paddling, very, very huge, huge, you know, stand up swimming pool. Like a giant paddling pool? Yeah, like a giant paddling pool.

The times were hard in Hampshire as well, weren't they? Yeah, that was filled with cold water. It had that very kind of bumpy plastic on the bottom into which the creases, God knows what kind of substance, managed to lurk. And the whole thing was just... I have such bad, bad memories of those swimming galas, all the parents crowding round

and for some reason, even though it could only have been about, I don't know, 30 foot in length, if you got stuck and knackered halfway through a length, you just couldn't finish, could you? I remember being in a race and it just... What would you do? It just seemed... Oh, I just walked the last half of it. But it just seemed impossible. You walked the last half of it but it just seemed impossible

you know you pushed yourself so hard it seemed impossible to get another 15 foot through the water it was an unglorious sporting achievement I never won anything sporting ever we did talk about hockey on the radio show today and it came to pass it came to pass

I realised that you'd never played hockey because you played lacrosse. No, so we only played lacrosse at school. We didn't play hockey at all. That always looked to me like an utterly impossible game. So you run around with a stick with a net on the end. Well, you've got a ball as hard as a cricket ball that has to go at kind of head height.

And one of the rules of the game, you have to catch it and throw it. You can't bounce it or dribble it along the ground or anything like that. So no, I found it really, really terrifying. I was quite often in goal. But that's cruelty. I'd just be padded up to the eyeballs and just flinch a lot, actually. That's my sporting triumph, flinching. You've not had an easy life, have you? No, not at all. But the funny thing is, I really like some bits of sport later on in life.

I absolutely love swimming now. And I'm quite kind of, I don't know, just much more adventurous now. It took me 40 years to have any confidence in anything sporting at all. Well, I'm not surprised after that goal. If you were any out there and you're a person who had to fling a lacrosse ball in the general direction of Fiona Glover. So I have a broken finger to which was a lacrosse ball there. God, it's absolutely brutal.

It was absolutely horrible. Absolutely horrible. Right. Come on, own up. Was that you? Jane and Fee at times.radio. Face the consequences. You knew it was coming. And please watch Happy Valley tonight so we can talk about it tomorrow. Okay. I will make sure that I do that.

I'll tell you what, I'll watch it through my broken finger like that because I can still see quite a lot through it. Brian and Barbara will be with me. It'll all be fine. They've turned into bats. They just fly across the room, Jane, at head height like a lacrosse ball, actually.

God. Yeah, no, they're very funny at the moment. Stick them on Instagram. Make a fortune. And you too could be Amanda Owen. Only you could herd kittens. Definitely preferable, because in a way, we've linked all the different subjects, haven't we?

The vulnerability of being a woman in a car, UTIs, nine children... Sheep. Kittens. Sport. And ooh, isn't it cold? Right, everything's covered it's like a very very very

drunk woman's hour you have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio and hope you can join us

off air very soon. Goodbye.