Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Never ending dance floors of heaven (with DJ Fat Tony)

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Jane and Fi get stuck into some award winning journalism and discuss the afterlife, being a bridesmaid, and some 'frin-tastic' emails.They're joined by DJ Fat Tony to discuss his memoir 'I Don't Take Requests'. If you've been affected by any issues in this interview - send us an email at [e-mail] and we'll point you in the right direction to the resources and help you need. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Assistant Producer: Kate Lee Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

all right well let's just go straight into it right welcome to off-air it's a podcast i'm jane garvey i'm fee glover she's back from her jollies and we were just talking about bridesmaids because because we've got a uh inside job on the program tomorrow uh where we're going to talk to a professional bridesmaid who presumably is someone you phone up and book when you don't have enough bridesmaids or they organise your bridesmaids.

What is it? Well, obviously we'll find out tomorrow but I suspect it'll be someone who plays the part brilliantly and perhaps is able to organise the head night maybe make sure that everything is absolutely perfect on the day, can deal with anything difficult that crops up, as it sometimes might. And there are, let's face it,

there are occasions on big days where things can go a little awry. And it's probably really good to have somebody with a cool head who is not emotionally invested. Yes, but do you think that they wear the dress and, you know, walk down the aisle behind you? This is why you are an award-winning journalist. And these are the very questions you can put to our guests tomorrow. I'll let you take charge because you've thought it through. Bridesmaids is one of my favourite films. It's ever so rude and it's quite childish, but I really love it.

What's the rudest thing in that? Oh, my gosh. Well, I don't think we can talk about that here. I'll tell you off air i could almost tell you couldn't i because that's the name of the podcast yes yeah well it's just a bit it's just a bit freety and it's about female friendship uh but what i don't believe in that sort of thing no i know i think i think listeners will have cottoned on to that by now uh but it just it is very funny uh so you've been a bridesmaid twice i think three times three

times but i'm just wrestling with the marriages ended in divorce so far but listen you could still you could still i don't know why i'm laughing it's very sad it's extremely sad yeah um this is from joe uh you were talking about a woman being buried in her pinny some years ago i spotted this in the in-memoriam section of my local paper. Mothers never really die, they just do housework in the sky. Oh God. I've got to say, if that's my lot for all eternity

I will be absolutely livid. Do you know I was doing ironing at quarter past eight this morning? Yeah, but it won't be because you're here and you've worked all the way through. That's what you've chosen to do. So what, will I be in broadcasting heaven then? Yes, well, we have talked about this, haven't we? The cordon d'oeuvre area.

Yeah, back in the old place, whether or not, because there was a John Peel wing, which I think has now been renamed. I think you'll find it's not called that anymore. Nope. And not before time, by the way. And there's the Frankie Howard meeting room. And I was once admonished in test card, which is a room.

Were you? Yes. I've been appointed and gilded in Mary Berry. Have you? Yes, very much so. So we have been in the past wondering what accolade you'd get. I think it is a small cubicle in a toilet. I'm talking about, let's say there is a heaven somewhere to go

when we pass on I don't like euphemisms, just say die I'm with you, just say die, when we die and Tony Marnock DJ Fat Tony, who's our guest on Off Air and was indeed our guest on the live radio show, which you can listen to by the way it doesn't cost you a penny to get the Times Radio

app, and then you can, as we used to say in the old days, tune in to to us live imagine what that's like uh monday to thursday three till five british summertime back to the story yeah i imagine that tony up in heaven he'll be in the cordoned off vip area very much so yes and all the celebrities, you know, George Michael will be there. Boy George by then will have also met his maker, died. And everybody else who knocked about at the Blitz Club back in the day. They'll just be standing in a very long line, not allowed in. They won't be allowed in. They'll be humiliated because their outfit's not daft enough.

A massive cuboid of a man saying, no, you're not coming in. I just wonder what will our chances be of getting in, probably quite slim. Oh, but I'm not sure that I want to be in DJ Fat Tony's never-ending dance floor of heaven, actually. I think I'd just like to be in quite a calm, quiet area with some of my very old friends looking out over a meadow with some birds tweeting and absolutely non-stop cheese and rosé wine and unusual combination.

I'll be very happy. Would you? OK. Right. Lots of fantastic, fantastic emails from you. And I just want to say thanks. Joan and Fee at Times.Radio. We always say we read every one.

We are trying at the moment to read every one. It's getting a bit difficult, isn't it? But that doesn't mean we're not trying yeah the volume is uh is enormous and actually if you've got a really really really long email and something you know serious and thoughtful because we do like to read all of them it might be an idea just to hang back for a week or so and we'll make our way through the emails we've got at the moment and i've saved a couple of the very long ones about very serious things for the next email special.

OK, yes, and I know people enjoy the email special, so we're definitely doing another one. But actually, talking of serious, I really wanted to use this one because it's from a listener who says, I have just listened to you talking to Lorraine about the simple steps we can take to get diagnosed and access treatment for bowel cancer early. And my stomach is in knots. I'm 41. I've got three children.

And for the last six to seven months, I've noticed a change in my bowel habits. I know I should see my doctor and the early diagnosis makes all the difference. But I just can't get a GP appointment. We're asked to call between 830 and 1030 to get an appointment. I don't try every week, but I have made concerted efforts on and off to get one. I'm either too late by the time I do get to speak to somebody, or I'm unable to even get a slot in the queue. I am now seriously considering getting a private GP appointment because I just don't know how to access the NHS with the current situation at my

doctor's surgery. Well, to that listener, I think my advice would be, yes, definitely get yourself an appointment. If you have to go private, do it. But really, you shouldn't have to do that. If you can, I would suggest you go down to your doctor's surgery and just stand there in front of the receptionist and say, look, there's all this public information being pumped out, quite rightly, about a change in bowel

habits potentially being significant i'm experiencing that i need to see a doctor that would be a reasonable approach wouldn't it well i guess so but i think um you know if that's going to be problematic for you or you think it's actually going to not result in anything happening at the doctor's surgery because you might simply you know know, be escorted from the premises. And the problem is, you know, I think the doctor's receptionists are really at the coalface. Oh, no, they're up against it. But honestly, it's always been my belief

that if you're really nice and polite, they'll be lovely to you. And I always am and they always are. And if I've ever needed an appointment, I've got one because I've been incredibly polite, but fairly persistent. And also aware, as you say, that these people, it's usually women, though not always, they are at the sharp end. And some people are incredibly rude to them. And that is dreadful. Obviously, don't do it. So it just might not have the desired effect. And I think, you know, Jane's right. We should all be able to go and see our GP that's the point

of the National Health Service and it should be free at the point of care and all of that but actually if you are worrying yourself yeah about you know whether or not this is the start of something really serious and you can afford to go private and you can have that initial consultation and you know quite it's quite a simple test actually that will tell you whether or not you're right to be worried. Then maybe that is the thing to do. And I would say just don't allow yourself to get caught up in any situation where that test is going to be delayed. Yes, quite. And also sometimes actually just anxiety can make your bowels go to pot. much wider conversation that you know needs to be had in the country about um you know where your

personal decision making lies about the morality of having to go private when we've all been brought up to believe that our health care should be free i mean it's not free because we pay our taxes but you know what i mean and i think if it's impeding your own anxiety you know being reduced by just getting a test done, getting the OK, or then being able to phone the doctor and saying, I've had this test. It's not great. I need to come in. I would just do that, actually. But don't ignore it. No.

I sense from the emailer that you are worried. But I mean, I'm like this myself. I'm such a procrastinator. I get it completely. But please don't put it off. This is a lovely one from Annie who says, Dear Jane and Fi, are you living inside my head? I was cross with you, leaving me without the previous podcast, finally persuaded to forgive you and try off air. Well, I did today, having just finished binging on Colin from Accounts,

now cooking supper in my plasticised pinny and talking to my daughter, who's an extra in Rivals. What's going on? Ooh. I know. That's all our things, isn't it? I tell you what. Jane Malkerins yesterday showed me a picture of Aidan Turner, and he's in Rivals.

Or is it Riders? Was Aidan Turner in Poldark? Yeah, it's him. The man whose shirt slips off at any moment in a little Cornish breeze. I think I'm okay to say that he's Rupert Campbell Black. So that's Riders, isn't it, not Rivals? Yeah, that is. No, no, I think Rupert Campbell Black appears in all manner of guises

across the Jilly Cooper genre. He's galloping across the Cotswold Prairies in any number of different books. Yeah. Right. Well, I look forward to it. And another one. Welcome to the club. This one comes from either Bill or Margaret. I think you're probably Margaret. Hard to tell from the email address. I can't help feeling that I'm very much your target audience. Born in Leicestershire, tertiary education in Birmingham, then emigrated to New Zealand post-menopausal,

moderately awful sex drive, moderate interest in crime fiction, but infrequent watcher of movies. I enjoy your interviews and conversations. I really wanted to say how pleased I was to hear your recent conversation about Jude Law and your interview with Jo Nesbo, mostly because I thought they were both women. Kind regards. Lovely. Hello to everybody down under.

I've been catching up on your podcasts and your discussions with and about Joe Nesbo, writes Kate. Whenever I hear his name or see it on a book cover, I'm forced to burst into an internal rendition of Sunita's So Macho, substituting Joe Nesbo for the titular words. I trust you are now afflicted with this, inflicted with this ailment. Sorry, not sorry, says Kate. Joe Nesbo. Yes, it almost, it works. You gotta be Joe Nesbo.

And he was a little bit Joe Nesbo, wasn't he? Yes. What did we have? We had a similar one, didn't we, before? Which was the So Macho. What was it? Can you remember? No, I can't remember anything. I can't remember anything, she said, as though that's funny. It'll come back to me.

I don't know whether it will. And Jill says, you were talking recently about pretensions. Well, at the age of 12, I was awarded a prize for English and in an attempt to live up to my teacher's aspirations I asked for a copy of Ulysses by James Joyce. I never cracked the spy. Brilliant. Says Jill. Well done. Very honest.

You've been totally up front about that. I suspect no one has actually read Ulysses. I haven't read it all the way through. I've tried a chapter. I think I've read, I think I might have read The Dubliners it's quite short Ali says when I was 16 I went to Amsterdam to visit my dad who was working there

for a while I bought a variety of Dutch cigarettes and took them home to smoke in front of my friends I thought I must have appeared so sophisticated and worldly I didn't like smoking so that was it I just wanted to say a very quick hello to Victoria I didn't like smoking. So that was it. I just wanted to say a very quick hello to Victoria, who ends her email with,

you bring light laughter and sometimes intelligent discussion. No problem at all. And Nick says, I was pondering after your conversation about various changes of clothes throughout the day. I just wanted to add the first thing I do is whip off the bra normally before the top that's over it. We all do it. The standard straps down, arms through, quick spin, release. I'm home. Thanks for the company.

I can never really do that, actually, can you? What, take a bra off? I don't like to take a bra off without taking my top off first. Oh, my God. And I'm just not very good at wandering around bra-less, I think as we've previously discussed. Oh, there's not a cat in hell's chance of me going around without a bra.

No. No. I think even if the fire alarm went off, I'd stop to put my bra on. I think it's true. The idea of living through that sort of turmoil with no support is unthinkable. Which reminds me of Mort, whose email is much appreciated. Jane, I couldn't agree with you more on succession. Thank you, Mort.

People are piling in on my side of this argument. It's one person, Jane. It's one of the most watched TV series ever. People are piling in on my side of the argument. Inundated 1dm mort says at the urging of friends and co-workers i lasted through five episodes horribly bored i wish i'd taken your advice against theirs and not wasted all that time now let's move on to another subject i don't know where you see all these men adjusting themselves i love more could you take some snapshots i live in detroit

i've spent a bit of time in london i haven't seen it here or indeed there i see far more bra adjustment including more major realignments as a gay man who'd probably be more amused by a man giving himself a bit of a tug. Bras on their contents interest me as much as sea plankton. You know it must exist, but you aren't sure why. Okay, let's go with Mort on a journey. Okay, he's going to just try and explain where he's coming from. I'd like for you to imagine bras with no cup size, just the chest measurement. These are men's pants. You get what you buy, unable to return once opened, and you have to live with it. Sticking to one brand doesn't do the trick because suppliers change. You toss the absolute worst, uncomfortable squeeze to

rotten fit, and make do with everything else. Surely somebody has got a grant. Actually, Mort's written gotten because he's an American. Surely someone had gotten a grant to monitor lift CCTV and count the number of adjustments and who's more willing to do what with an audience. Your research team could probably find it on the Google. I'll bet that the findings aren't very close to what you voiced on your podcast.

Thanks and love to you and Fee for making the world a better place for decades, says Mort, which I'm not entirely sure is something I want to hear. Right, OK, so Mort is basically saying that our suspicion that it's men who are always doing the rearranging isn't true. Well, Mort, I was very specifically referring to the rearranging done in showers and swimming pools before and after a swim, particularly after when the gentlemen are bringing in a little body wash with them and they're having their washing shower, not just their get clean for the pool shower. And there's an astonishing amount of grabbing going on and zhuzhing. I think sometimes they just need to reassure themselves it's still there.

Watching and all of that. Has he fallen off? It's a really good point more because I don't see women who come in with three bottles, shampoo, conditioner and body wash, are bad. And they're not rearranging their boobs whilst giving them a wash. That just doesn't happen. I never do that. So sometimes I will have a shower with soap suds, calm down everybody, but I won't ever,

I won't ever delve underneath my swimming costume, but the men are all delving into their trunks. That's what I'm getting at, Mort. I feel that was too much detail. I don't know. We've got another one here about this is we should have said this is an adult podcast if you are in any way easily offended or we neither of us know why you're here because we do we do cover i think it's fair to say a reasonable spread of life's rich tapestry yeah i tell you what darlings if you're five or six years old switch it off and go and find mummy she'll have a very nice oh Oh, daddy. Yeah, exactly. I'm waiting for you. But please switch it off.

Mummy, daddy, or your non-binary carrier. Right, now, this is about erections in linen trousers. Now, it's fairly specific. I grant you this is a trifle niche, but nevertheless, it happened. And we need to... We just need to... Life is full of this sort of stuff.

Well, it's not, to be fair. Actually, it's not. I won't mention the name. You mentioned men wearing linen in your email corner. And it reminded me of an odd episode from my days as a wedding photographer. We're a bit wedding heavy, actually, aren't we? It's probably too freaky for radio. Oh, no.

Well, it's freaky for radio radio but it's fine for a podcast i had somehow booked a wedding for a couple who were extremely religious this couple were heavily involved in a religion which made a really big deal out of no sex before marriage it was mentioned several times that they'd never actually kissed so the groom and the groomsmen were all wearing very soft drapey light coloured linen trousers. You can guess what happened when it was time for the first kiss. Yes in the groom's linen pants. There it was. Very visible indeed. Other adjectives are used here. Bouncy is one and large is another. So off we go outside for photos and I'm trying very hard to find angles where the whole thing doesn't show,

but the options are limited, and prominence is an issue. Don't read the next bit. No, I won't. Nobody says anything, including the groom himself, and there is no jacket to cover it up. Fast forward to me working away later at my computer, editing the images and preparing the couple's gallery. I did try to find some workarounds, but there's just not much that can be done so I eventually sent everything to the family. After a while I got a carefully worded email from the very religious mother of the groom saying that her son appears to have been somewhat excited and is there anything

I can do. In the end I did take pity and and I sat at my computer, Photoshop at the ready, liquefying and pushing back into place and fixing all manner of other things in all the photos. Now that I'm typing this, I think it's too revolting to share. But still, if men must wear these linen trousers, I suppose they should at least have a very thick lining in them. Anyway, in other news, Jane, I've also got a lavender-coloured single of Squeezers Up the Junction, which I loved and still do. Thanks for your show. I listen every day. I'm just a basic English girl from London, Birmingham, Bournemouth,

but have been in the States for the last 35 years. I now live on a boat in Seattle, and it's lovely, says that contributor. So she's taken us to a few places there, hasn't she? Not least Seattle. Thanks very much. You've interviewed presidents. I've taken programmes to the UN.

Linen trousers and erections seems to be where we've ended up. Linen trousers. Can I do quite a serious one from Rachel, who is one of a couple of people, quite a few people, who've written in about deep thinking crime fiction,

because we've had quite a lot of conversations after the Joan Nesbo interview about the depiction of women in a sexualised way as victims of crime in novels and what that might do to all of our heads and thank you very much indeed for your very thoughtful email rachel i agree with a lot of it most of it all of it um and i suppose having given it quite a bit of thought it's not just getting older and realizing that a woman's place in the world can sometimes be and often is so much more vulnerable than a man's. It's more than that, actually, Jane. It's because I really, really love crime fiction. And I find

that use of the sexualized young, beautiful woman, just an incredibly dull plot. It's dull, and it's offensive. And it's just used in such an easy way to start a book off, because that's the way that the writer imagines that you're going to grab the empathy and compassion of the reader. And it's been done too much. It's so horrible. It's been done to death. And I'm not trying to make a crass joke there. And it just doesn't do what you're intending it to do anymore. So I think it has just become grotesque in that way. And also, it's the fact that if you kill a man in crime fiction, the second question after, you know, how is he murdered, isn't, was he raped or sexually assaulted? And it always is now in crime fiction. So there'll be a young woman murdered, body found in a forest, along comes the detective inspector, how was she killed, blow to the head, was she raped? In the same breath, just, you know, that's what happens to women.

And that's the bit that I really, really struggle with now, to the point at which I find it really difficult impossible just to read books that have that as a device do you think female authors are as guilty yes I do actually I'm trying to think of yep so I think just the level of violence and the distribution of violence towards young attractive women is absolutely in the books of female crime writers too and maybe everybody gets to a saturation point you know at some stage in their reading life and I've just definitely got to mine but I've been really struck recently a couple of books that I've picked up well I just don't think it's necessary. I think it's been quite a lazy plot device. Well, maybe it's time for publishing houses

to have a word with themselves about this. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, they're about making money. And it sells. And it sells. We know it sells. And I think Joe Nesbo said in our interview that 80% of his readership is female.

Yeah, well, that's depressing. So, you know, it's not something that most of his readers are feeling. But anyway, Rachel, I hope that answers some of your questions and I hope that you carry on reading too and enjoying it. Can I just say I've just finished John Boyne's The Heart's Invisible Furies, which was a recommendation from quite a few of our listeners as to a novel that was really properly funny. And you're absolutely right.

What a brilliant, brilliant book and just really, really good, high comedic writing that doesn't take away from the plot or make it silly or anything like that. Just absolutely brilliant. So thank you for that. I can do another hard recommend,

which is for Louise Kennedy's book, Trespassers, which is the book that I think is likely to win the Women's Prize for Fiction It's tipped for it but you never know with that prize Jane You never know I've gone to any number of different places but I finished that over the weekend and wow

I was going to say it's not that easy to read It's not that easy to read because the writing is so beautiful that you need to drink it in a little bit. It's not a mega pacey... It's not a gallop. No, it isn't. It really isn't. But it's beautifully written and incredibly sad and just an absolute total... It's out of paperback now, so if you want a book that will really make you think

and take you back as well, it's about the troubles. Anyway, it's fantastic. Stuart, who's got letters after his name i don't know what these mean mgds magnum floriana digital supremo excellent that's stewart yeah uh anyway he says dear both are you trying to become the 21st century hinge and bracket. No. Keep going. Because we're not men in drag. Well, actually, are you? Broadcasting's in enough trouble if that ever gets out. Right, shall we do DJ Fat Tony? I just want to mention this from Tracy. Hearing you discussing the quality item, the tabard, took me back to myurday job in a fruit and veg shop in the 1980s the manager proudly announced we were going to wear sponsored sweatshirts

i was dismayed to see when they arrived they were advertising outspan oranges with their logo across our chest saying small ones are more juicy i was quite a self-conscious but relatively well endowed 16 year old and i knew nothing good would come of this. And sure enough, every man old enough to be my father couldn't resist making every joke you can think of. I despaired until I remembered I'd been offered a tabard to wear when I started, which I had, of course, turned down on the basis that I wasn't a pensioner cleaning her house. But now it proved my saviour, wearing it on top of the sweatshirt.

I have thought very fondly of tabards ever since, says Tracy. And so you should. Yes, and thank you for that actually genuinely terrible reminder of that really stupid slogan. Surely that wouldn't happen now. No, of course it wouldn't, Jane. DJ Fat Tony, real name Tony Marnock is the king of the fissionable dance floor his memoir I Don't Take Requests lays bare his drug habit his battle to get and stay clean and the abuse that he suffered as a child

it's 15 years since he changed his life and went to rehab he came in to see us last week, didn't he? And we had a fantastic chat about everything that is included in his book, which is called? I Don't Take Requests. And we should say that this is quite a frank interview and anybody affected by any issues in it, you can send us an email at feedback at times.radio and we'll point you in the right direction to the resources and help you need. And just to say again, if you're five years old or six years old,

bedtime, switch it off. We began by telling him how well he looked. No, you know, at the end of my using, I weighed seven stone. I had one tooth left in my head. My whole face had caved in through the drugs that I'd been taking at that point in time kind of just changed my whole bone structure in my face. It was just really bizarre. But today, that's not the case

because today I look after myself and I drink water and I do everything to absolute perfection when it comes to looking after myself because it's really important. It is. But when it comes to looking after myself because it's really important. It is. But when it came to writing this book, did you decide to be as brutally honest as possible? Because I'll be honest, there were bits of this I was quite shocked by.

I think if you're going to write a book and you've never written a book before, you want to make the best book you can. And it took two and a half years because there were a lot of stops and changes because i would write i would do it with mikey we would i'd dictate here we go when you come back the next day yeah no it wasn't a ghost right we wrote it together okay so uh and he would come back and he would have put words in like jolly which is not a word i use uh and then uh he would change it but you know it was not it wasn't truthful enough I just thought hang on why have I why have I sugar-coated that and there were bits there

are elements of it different chapters I've really struggled with you know the abuse chapter and stuff like that I went whilst writing that stuff I kind of got really ill like uh the first day that we started the abuse chapter i i thought i had food poisoning and it turns out it was it was post-trauma it was the trauma that of of what i thought i dealt with early on as a kid as a teenager i'd never dealt with it and but and suddenly to bring that stuff up made me really really ill so i had to go away and do uh extreme trauma therapy around those chapters um which was amazing in itself because it kind of got me to a point where i can talk about that stuff very freely and easily because i've

dealt with it now but yeah i think telling the truth when you've lied all your life which i had done up to that point was the most cathartic thing i could have done and you know if you'd said to me 40 years ago the minute you get you start telling the truth is the minute you'll find freedom, I would have laughed in your face. But it's true. Yeah, I mean, there are some interesting celebrity endorsements of the book. And I love the one from Elton John and David Furnish, who describe you as a s*** but say they still love you.

It kind of sums it up, really. I mean, you say yourself, your behaviour, and we will talk about some of the terrible things that happened to you as a kid but your behavior was pretty awful wasn't it yeah and you say that yourself but you know what you know today i would have been diagnosed with adhd and i would have been diagnosed with dyslexia and all of those things and as a kid i wasn't i was i was diagnosed as a problematic child um And I never got the help that I needed, and I wasn't given direction. So I was unruly.

So I was sent to places where unruly kids went. And there was no, like, care or love in those places, especially within the schooling system. So, you know, I was left to my own devices. And, you know, we come from a time where we didn't have social media, we didn't have that platform to project ourselves. We had to create our own platform. And where I was abused as a child at 10 years of age for four years,

I laugh about it because it's not laughing at the abuse, I'm laughing at the fact that it went on for four years. For me, that kind of changed the way I saw people and the way I was treated I didn't know any better I didn't know how to treat so I didn't want anyone ever to get close to me I always wanted people to like me I never ever wanted anyone to love me because I was scared of love I was scared of intimacy because the only intimacy I'd ever known to that point was sexual intimacy and it was forced upon me. So it changed the direction of my life.

Can you tell us just a little bit about that abuse, just how you ended up in a position where this had happened to you? So, you know, at the time it was the summer holidays and there was a place in Battersea called Battersea Arts Centre on Lavender Hill and there was a summer club and I started going there. My mum and dad sent me there weekdays and i met some guy that was showing films in youth clubs and he offered me a job

very quickly offered me a job you know started to groom me and within a couple of months you know the abuse started but he kind of you know it was you know very you know i was always out i never there was never a point of me where i had to think about my sexuality i kind of just knew who i was and i was very very uh outward about that stuff so he kind of it was he i was easy prey in that sense also there was a lot of stuff going on at home um and the abuse went on for four years four years I was made to feel that it was me doing it, it was my instigation

because I was working for him, money was changing hands it all become really really dark and really awful very quickly and to my complete amazement although I'm around the same age as you I grew up at that time, this guy took you yeah and in fairness a number of adults did try to intervene on your

behalf um but this was happening in plain sight do you believe that could happen now i really don't believe it could happen now i think that we're more clued up around that stuff and i think that the word pedophile is such a part of our vocabulary today and the understanding of that word. Back then, it really wasn't the case. I think it was much more of an ushered word. I think it was what went on behind closed doors. People weren't really clued up around it.

My mum and dad were certainly not clued up about the fact that someone was grooming me or any of that stuff because my mum had her own issues at the time she had cancer and my dad didn't couldn't cope with the fact that my mum had cancer so he was drinking so you know when my mum did actually at some point ask me oh has he ever tried to touch you or anything like that for some own reason because my little brother had said something and I I was like, no, no, no. Because I was made to feel that if I had said that, then I would be the one that got in trouble. Because I was accepting money.

But do you think it was also a bit of homophobia? Because there was a fear of not understanding a gay relationship, but also that trope of the older man and the younger man. A hundred percent, yeah. yeah that's still with us today oh that's so much is with us today but we we uh within our especially within my community the whole daddy thing is a really big issue you know people like you know anyone who's of a certain age and they go with younger people are like daddies and you know it's kind of like generalized but when it comes to the word pedophilia and

pedophile they're not gay men let's get that straight it's it's a whole different ball game you know gay men are you know obviously you can get gay men that are pedophiles but pedophiles in general are not gay men they're they're a whole different sexuality in themselves and i think that's what needs to be more understood it's an illness like anything you know it's a set you know to say it's an illness is easy for me to say because I was abused. But, you know, when you look at it on a grander scale, you know, these people, they don't have a choice.

It's not like something, oh, they woke up today. Like, I'm gay. I know my sexuality. A paedophile is exactly the same kind of thing. They know that they're a paedophile. What is really shocking and really, I know, upset you desperately is that you were falsely accused of abusing a boy, a teenager. Yes, yeah. And that is the point in the book, I think,

at which you're lowest, aren't you? Because that was just really tough. You know, my life at that point, I was two years clean and I was out walking my dog. And this situation happened where they laid grass down outside the angel shopping center. This kid had thrown a piece of turf at my pregnant dog that I was just coming back from the vets with, that was just getting tested. And I very stupidly smacked him around the head because, you know, it was my dog.

And that was it. And then suddenly, three days later, I was jumped on by nine police and held, taken to a police station. And I was questioned without a lawyer because I didn't think that I needed a lawyer. I thought, hang on, they're going to let me go in a minute. They've got the wrong person.

I was quite happy to talk to the police, thinking, okay. But in that interview, I said that I'd been abused as a child. You know, I'd just got into recovery. I was two years clean, and part of my programme was to be honest. So I told them everything. I told them everything they needed to hear, in the sense that I was a gay man, I'd cruised in the past, you know. And, you know, 2 and 2 made 26 very quickly for them.

And I had a year of persecution, a year where I wasn't allowed to go to my own house, and a year where I was on bail, I went to prison. I went to Pentonville Prison for... It seemed like an eternity, but it was like a matter of, like, six weeks of being in Pentonville Prison for something that I'd never done.

And at that point in time, you know, I was still sober. I never once reached for a drink or a cigarette or anything else. You went back home to live with your mum and dad, didn't you? Yeah, I went down to Dungeness, bowed to my mum and dad's house. And living down there, you know, I blame my dad for so many things in my life because my dad used to beat my mum when he drank when I was a kid. And I held on to that stuff and I never realised until that point of being put down with my mum and dad on tag

that my dad was 30 years sober. I never, ever gave him that credit because I was too busy blaming him for me because it was easier to blame him for the things that he said and did 30 years like 30 years prior than to actually blame myself you know um and it was probably one of the most amazing situations because out of all that darkness at that point in time what i was going through i got to know my father and then i obviously won the court case uh because it was vindicated of all charges a proven court that it never happened. And, you know, my dad saw that happen. And then a month later, passed away in front of me, which I'm so grateful for the fact that I got to know him in that respect.

Even through that dark time, something really magical happened through that. You are listening to Off Air with Fi and Jane, and our guest today is DJ Fat Tony, Tony Marnock. Now, here he is answering the question about how worried he was about going back to his job in the clubs after he'd left rehab. For me, when I was in rehab, the very last day, they said to me, you can't go back to London, you can't go back to DJing, you can't go back to London, you can't go back to DJing, you can't go back to that relationship.

And at that point in time, I said, I'm not going backwards to anything. I'm going forwards to London. I'm going forwards to my career. And it's been that way since. For me today, music is the best drug you'll ever, ever take in your life. It has the ability to transport you to places that you that memories that you have three bars of a tune can make your hair stand on end no drug can do that right and for me i had that connection with music again i have that connection with people but we were talking about you yesterday tony behind your back and both both marveling at how you could hold it together and do

these great nights and put together, you know, track after great track after great track, when you were absolutely out of it, on some sort of bender that on occasion could go on for four or five days, not sleeping. Quite simply, do you remember how you did it? Because I had to do it. That was the way I got money.

That was what I did. But you weren't paying tax or anything, were you? Oh, no, I didn't pay tax until I was 51. And now I'm paying probably more tax than the whole government put together which is fine and I don't moan about it do you go I mean because it's like hang on you know I'm sorry but that was such a fantastic BBC question it really was wasn't it but you didn't pay tax but you know what the thing is I was the first person to hold my hand up to it because you know it's it was a case well, I remember my dog getting ill and everyone was like, have you not got pet insurance?

I was like, I'm a junkie. How have I got pet insurance? Get real. You know, paying the tax, who's the tax man? You know, I was a junkie for 28 years. I was homeless. Homeless people don't pay tax. Do you know what I'm saying to you?

Well, you did, you owed rent, I think, unfortunately. On Paul Raymond. Paul Raymondmond the king of sofa yeah like you know um for for many years uh you know they they they bankrupted me at one point um which is fine you know these are circumstances of my using circumstances of situation today i i as i say today I don't have any skeletons in my closet. I do what's right by me and by what everyone else around me, because I have a duty of care, not only for myself, but for many other addicts. I work with people in addiction, all different types of people, because I'm firmly what you put out, you get back. And for me not to pay my tax today would be just extremely wrong. I'm glad we've cleared that up.

But it's true. No, I know, I get it completely. You know, this year I went to see my accountant and, you know, my threshold had gone so high and I was like, oh, my my god how am i going to pay this and of course my instinct reaction was i'm not paying this i'm going to leave the country i'm going to go and live somewhere else and it was the day before i was 16 years clean in january i'm on the 9th of january i'm i was 16 years on the 10th of january and i remember

sitting in the accountants and she was like well well, look, the bad news is blah, blah, blah. And they told me the amount of money. And I was like, that's like a house. And they were like, well, you've obviously earned that money. And I said, I don't want you to tell me that I've earned that money in order to pay that tax. But, you know, the thing was, my immediate reaction was, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.

And I sat there and thought, you're 16 years clean tomorrow and sober. Of course you're doing it. And I was like, of course, I'll pay it. I'll pay it straight away sat there and thought you're 16 years clean tomorrow and sober of course you're doing it and i was like of course i'll pay it i'll pay it straight away can you um just name drop for us um just take us a little bit into your glamorous life um what was the best night what was when you look around a room and think wow there's what and then them and then they're here as well did you you must have been starstruck by it all you You know what? I think I'm more starstruck since I've been sober. Because those, you know, there's been moments where I had these pinch me moments

and I just think, how the hell did I get here? From being homeless on the street with no teeth to suddenly being in Donatello Versace's living room. You know, or being on a boat with Leonardo DiCaprio. Those kind of moments are like real like wow moments. And then what I do is I read it back in because for me, it's a part of my job and what I do. And they're levels of where, they're not success levels.

They're levels of career, they're career levels. Success, as I say today, for me is not about being on a boat with Leonardo DiCaprio or being in papers or magazines for the right reasons. What it is, is about being at home with my dog on the sofa and being in the moment. That's true success for me today. And everything else career-wise, when anyone says, what was your best party or what was the best night you ever had? I always say it's never happened yet because things always get better. With all of your knowledge of addiction,

do you think you can stop an addict before they even start? I think that education is a very big part of what we are, and understanding tolerance shouldn't be a part of it. It's about acceptance of where that person is and you accept them for who they are and where they're at and you let them know that you're there to support them. When we start to point fingers, it all gets very underground and very dark and I just think that you can't stop.

If someone is in active addiction, if you feel that, oh, we're going to organise an intervention, please don't. Because what you're doing is you're just making that person hide and be more shameful around what they do. Shame is a really big factor when we're in addiction. We don't need it added to us by other people, especially members of our loved ones.

We want them to accept us in the sense that, OK, I'm here for you. The minute that you think that they need help, that's when you go in and you say, listen, let me take you somewhere. Let me show you. Let me show you. You need to go because you need to have some work. Let us.

That's the secret to this. You did try to help George Michael, didn't you? Oh, on so many occasions. You know, I love George and I, you know, there were moments where I got through. There were moments where I got through. But you know i loved you again i you know there were moments where i got through there were moments where i got through but you know what it it's it's it's circumstantial again you know you can get through to someone on a monday but tuesday wednesday and thursday they're gone again because their other friends come in and get involved you know we the thing about addicts

is they take prisoners very you know and before you know it you know you can't you can't remove someone it's the only minute you can make someone stop is when they want to stop you know those god-given moments can you just give us your ultimate floor fillers please um i mean it depends on where i am and what i'm doing i Because I read energy. That's my job. I don't set out to make a playlist for a club before I go out. It's all on sticks. I would get there and I read the energy of that dance and I relay that energy back. Well, let me set a scenario for you then.

Let's say it's Lady Jane Garvey's 60th birthday. It's unthinkable, isn't it? And she's out in a club, Tony. She's got all her mates around her. What would I like? She likes a big floor-filling banger. Oh, well, okay. We're going with Freed From Desire,

and then we'll take it from there. We'll do Pump Up The Jam and all of those party tunes. Come on, Eileen. Listen, yeah, of course, I won't go that far. But, you know, if it's a party, it needs to be a party. Yeah. And, you know, there's nothing worse than someone party it needs to be a party yeah and you know there's not there's nothing worse than someone thinking they're too cool for school to play party music

we do a brunch on Sundays we don't use the word brunch anymore on Saturdays called full fat and it's primarily 300 women every Saturday uh we do it in seasons because it's so it's so exhausting for me but you know it it's from midday till 5pm and it's all women enjoying the moment, regardless of age, sexuality, race, size. Which tracks go down well there? Oh, so there it's all about old house tracks and all the classics.

Do you know what I mean? We play everything from Robin S, Show Me Love, right the way through. You know, there's lots of George Michael played. Right. Always. That sounds like fast love is the good one. I've got it tattooed on my hands.

Oh, you have? Absolutely. Yeah, fast love. I couldn't help but notice one of your other tattoos says hypocrite. Yeah, I have arrogant and hypocrite on my hands because this is the hand I always say to people, don't do this, don't do that, and I'm doing it myself. And this is the hand that I tell people to F off with. Oh, with oh that's nice well i think that's an appropriate way to win the interview which one are we gonna get uh you'll get a night for today actually you're gonna get

the loving hand the helping hand that was fat tony uh tony marnock and i don't take requests is is a memoir for the broad-minded, I think it's fair to say, because he's pretty explicit about the stuff that he did and the things that he went through as well. And he's also very, very honest indeed about himself and what he acknowledges to be his many failings. But he was interesting, wasn't he? Oh, and really likeable.

Yeah. We've got some cracking guests coming up next week, haven't we? Who have we got? Judy Murray. She's got a novel out, wasn't he? Oh and really likeable Yeah, yeah. We've got some cracking guests coming up next week haven't we? Who have we got? Judy Murray. She's got a novel out hasn't she? She has written a book about tennis. And also another of our old colleagues from back in the day. Darling Dickie Darling Dickie, dear Dickie

Dickie Coles The Reverend, although is he as reverend as he used to be? Well he's been saying some things, hasn't he? He's not really going to church at the moment, Jane. There's a lot to talk to that one about. I actually told Decker Aitkenhead in the Sunday Times magazine at the weekend that he likes a lie-in on a Sunday.

Well, he's not a liar. Interestingly, it's one of the reasons that I don't go to church. Is that a reason why you're not a reverend? Yes. Is that only just... No, I don't want to start laughing about Sabbath. Don't do that. No, don't. No, no, don't. Quick correction corner. Apologies to everybody listening in

Ireland. Leslie says, we were talking yesterday actually, Jane and Jane and I, Jane and Jane, about Maryland, the ICB show that I initially really enjoyed and gave a hard recommend to. Then I thought the last episode was a bit daft. But anyway, I thought it had been filmed in a place called health in ireland but actually it's hoath in ireland so you know it was set in the isle of man well this is so confusing yes but

it was actually filmed in the republic of ireland in a place called hoath so my apologies because i don't like getting these things wrong really it's annoying please don't and if anybody can remember what it was that you'd turn Sunita's so macho into because it was it was a bit of a theme in the podcast back in the other place and it's going to annoy me so much now not to be able to remember what it was it was something funny I think it was about bras Jane maybe I'm thinking about bras too much these days anyway uh do get in touch with the podcast uh off air with jane and fee we'd love to hear more from mort i quite like mort's take on life uh we'd love to hear more about anything that we've been discussing and if you've got a very long very serious email don't be shy to send it in but just do be aware that we'll probably save those ones for our big email specials I think actually I always say this but the

quality of the emails in terms of how well written they are is exceptional but I think you'll be going some way if you can beat Mort's sentence about how as a gay man he's got about as much interest in the content of bras as he has in sea plankton I'm quite interested by sea plankton, though. There's some very, very old and very complicated sea plankton out there. Right, well, if you are one, or you know one, actually, or if you just know about sea plankton, come on, let's just educate ourselves.

Education is a lifelong thing, you know, Fee. Is it, Jane? Yes. I had no idea. Right, goodnight, everybody. Sleep tight. I'm having a little bit of salmon tonight. That's like large sea plankton, isn't it?

Yes, in a way. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to thursday three till five you can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on off air very soon they'll be so silly why do you get bank i know lady listener sorry