Off Air... with Jane and Fi - New Royals and a brave bride

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Jane and Fi discuss the fallout from footballer Iker Casillas's alleged joke about being gay in a sport where coming out for men seems almost impossible.Joining them today is the Royal broadcaster Katie Nicholl to talk about her new book "New Royals" and answer why it's so hard being a female member of the Royal family.Also, Kayley Stead, the brave bride who continued with her wedding after her husband-to-be decided not to attend.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Hello and welcome to Off Air with me, Jane Garvey.

And me, Fee Glover. And we are fresh from our brand new Times Radio show, but we just cannot be contained by two hours of live broadcasting. So we've kept the microphones on, grabbed a cuppa and are ready to say what we really think unencumbered and off air so uh day two on Times Radio. Was it easier than yesterday? I couldn't work it out. There's a lot to get used to, isn't there? No, I think day one you have a lot of adrenaline, which kind of keeps you going.

Or maybe it just dulls your memory. So, no, I think day one seemed better than day two. But, you know, we meandered our way through day two. We had some very interesting guests today. Yeah, we did. We should say that it is just like, changing a job at any time in your life is is quite tricky changing school something like that isn't even moving house i'm really reluctant to make change so when i do it does take it out of me and i hope other people listening can relate to that

and also we found out that live radio since we last did it has become astonishingly visual. It's ridiculous. So we are struggling a bit with that, if we're honest as well. So I am so unused to and unwilling to see my own reflection between the hours of three and five on a massive screen straight in front of me. It's like being on a non-stop Zoom call. It really is. Anyway, this, what you're listening to now, is our brand new podcast, Off Air with Jane and Fi, which will become available, as you know, because you've just made it available to yourself, as soon as, pretty much as soon as the live radio show is done. Yeah, that's funny, isn't it? We really are preaching to the choir by telling you

that you can get this podcast wherever you get your podcasts from, because you did. Well done, you. Yeah, you just did. So one of the issues we talked about on the programme today, actually, was interesting to both of us, because we both are football fans. And up until recently, of course, being a football fan meant, had to mean pretty much that you were only a fan of men's football. So I guess that's kind of what I've just grown up with,

watching men's football. And for years and years and years and years and years, there were no gay male footballers. Yep. And the point has often been made that there are lots of gay people in other sports. There are lots of gay people in our society. So the idea that there just wouldn't be any gay men in football is nonsense. So some people are having to live a life where they're not being honest about who they are. Very few men, And it's only really young men who've come out. I can only name three.

So there is an Australian player from Adelaide, Blackpool player, and a young man from the Scottish, Scottish professional footballer. And I think they're all under 25. And I just, we were talking about it on the programme today with Henry Winter asking the very simple question, you know, why can't anybody come out now? And I suppose the point that we didn't quite manage

to talk about with him just on timings was the fact that somebody already has a life, don't they? That they are leading, that they would have to then say, this is not my authentic self. No. So that is a much, much harder thing to do. It's a more or less impossible thing to do and i think um henry winter said he thought the problem lay within the dressing room i mean the thing that

i has always intrigued me about football let's be honest about it is it's actually hard to avoid the homoerotic overtones of football i mean they're on the pitch and it's there actually in some fan behavior isn't it of course it is. It allows men to behave in a way that perhaps you're not always seeing them behave in, or they don't feel they can be in other walks of life. I'm not talking about hooliganism or any of the dark side of it, but just that real... The passion. Yeah. The physical affection.

Yeah. The physical contact. You're not telling... Also, there's something about the... So the players stay forever youthful because you have to be relatively youthful to play football. And they're running around pitches in not that many clothes, let's be honest, which show their athleticism and their physicality. And the crowd can age.

You can watch football at any age. You can be 75. You can be the same age as the players. You can be somewhere in between. But there's no doubt that there's a lot of athleticism and male frankly male beauty on display in men's football and it's i think it just raises some worrying questions for some for some men i think doesn't it does it or maybe we're just imagining all this oh no i'm sure it does and i was intrigued what henry said about it being the dressing room that is the stumbling block you know it's it's not the stands, the terraces, it's not the fans.

It's the reaction in the dressing room because I had hoped or wanted to imagine that that would be a place where team spirit and camaraderie meant that you would be able to be your actual self. It's hard to imagine how you get a real team spirit going if there are people who aren't. Well, I suppose we're in an interesting position now because we can contrast it with the women's game. And the England women's team, obviously European champions for a start,

which is great and we still haven't stopped celebrating. A fair number of the team who played on that day were gay women and very little was made of it, in a way, which is great. Yeah, and openly gay and it doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone never mind their teammates and such a good point to make jane because apart from the duality there so many people commented on the lioness's team spirit because they are all just being who they actually are and maybe maybe that's that's part of it is it just a wider

societal thing i mean this is a question for experts and i'm not one that women are not as threatened by let's be honest by lesbians as some men appear to be by gay men what is it what's the difference not being a man it's really hard to answer that question and also I think we've grown up in quite a liberated society and uh you know moved we haven't we haven't lived our lives in a place where it would be so frowned upon to be out about your sexuality I think the media has actually actually radio is a very uh it's a very open yes it's. It's been at the frontier, I would hope, I'm sure lots of people have very, very different experiences, but we certainly haven't existed in a place where I hope there was fear about coming out. So isn't it interesting? We thought we'd

ask a simple question, we've got a really complicated answer, as I think is always going to be the way with a simple question. So our idea about asking a simple question. We've got a really complicated answer, as I think is always going to be the way with a simple question. So our idea about asking a simple question is, well, I'm not going to say fallen at the first fence, because it was my idea, but it's just become quite involving. And there'll be another of those simple questions along tomorrow. I hope that just gives you an idea of what's available on the Live Times radio show.

What we're able to do now in off-air every day is give you some of the highlights of the live show. And let's start with Katie Nicholl. Who is she, Fi? Well, she is royal correspondent for Vanity Fair and she is also the author of a new book called The New Royals. And that's about the next generation coming through. Yeah. And one of the things we focused on with Katie Nicholl was why is it so tough to be a woman marrying into the royal family? It's such an interesting theme, isn't it? You look to Diana, look back to Sarah Ferguson, that great sense of isolation that they felt, I suppose, as outsiders marrying into this

institution that is the royal family. And as you say, when you sort of bring that story right up to current date, you look at Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex and of course the very well documented problems that she had adjusting and transitioning to royal life and problems that I talk about or I write about rather in the book and which are big talking points and even the even the Princess of Wales as she now is Kate you know she makes it look very easy I think and yes she had sort of 10 years, I suppose, to look in and see what royal life was really like. But it is tough. It is unlike, I think, anything else.

And I think it is easier almost for the men. It's certainly easier for those who are born royal because they understand the institution. It is drilled into their DNA and who they are. But I think when you're marrying in, it is unbelievably tough. And, you know, people think there's a sort of princess in training manual or a sort of set of rules, a guide that you can follow. It simply doesn't exist. You learn on the job and you have to learn pretty quickly, certainly in Meghan's case.

Yeah. So whose fault is it that it's so hard for the women? Is it us, actually? Is it the public or is it the royal family? Is it the institution? I think probably largely us in terms of the media. I think we do have a tendency to project these unrealistic expectations onto our royals and their spouses. I mean, if you look, let's just take, for example, that construct of the Fab Four, that media construct. example, that construct of the fab four, that media construct. We instantly hoped that in William and Kate and Harry and Meghan, we were going to have this fabulous four dynamic. Well, of course, it turned out to be anything but fabulous. But I think we project our hopes and our desires and our expectations and everything we think of royalty onto essentially ordinary,

normal people. And I'm using those words in inverted commas. But I hope that one of the things I get to the bottom of in this book, or certainly shed some new light on, are the royals as people, and particularly the Queen, because she was a person, and she did have very real feelings. She went through some very, very difficult times. And there are interviews in there, particularly with her late cousin, Lady Elizabeth Anson, Philip Bonham Carter, a cameraman of 40 years, who actually got to see the Queen as a real person. And I think sometimes we forget that, don't we? That they are real people.

Well, you mentioned Prince Philip, and we know that we're not far away from the next series of The Crown, You mentioned Prince Philip, and we know that we're not far away from the next series of The Crown, in which there will be a suggestion, perhaps more than a suggestion, that Prince Philip had an affair. What do you think of that? Do you think it's, I'm sure you watch The Crown, frankly, I watch The Crown. Is it right that they're doing that? Well, I do watch The Crown. Most people I know also watched The Crown. I think it's really dangerous, partly because it is fiction, and yet it doesn't carry any sort of a disclaimer that it is drama. I personally think it should do. The problem with The Crown is it's about real facts, but it is fiction. It is brilliantly done. It's why we all watch it. The casting is

genius. The cinematography is beautiful. And, you know, sometimes you have to sit there and pinch yourself and remind yourself that it is drama. But, you know, the yeah, I mean, that is a very damaging allegation that he had an affair with Lady Penny. Of course, she was the only non-family member to be at his funeral. And, you know, they did have a very close relationship, but she was also a great friend of the Queen. So it's going to be very interesting to see how they present that friendship. I definitely think it's fair to say they go pretty close to the bone. And similarly, how are they going to handle the Martin Bashir interview in this new series of The Crown? You know, we now know how that interview was gotten

through very duplicitous means. So how are they going to present that? How are they going to cover themselves on that? You know, I think also the fact that it is so current, that it is just so, as I say, close to the bone in terms of recent royal history. Just some people may well feel that this series is too close for comfort, but I'm sure it won't put many off.

I think it won't. I think it'll have the worst effects. I think anything about the royal family at the moment is frankly watchable, readable, sellable, and, you know, look at the number of royal books out at the moment, right? Yes, including yours. Including mine. Let's talk about a story that's in the Times actually today, Katie. Harry's book. Is it going to come out or not? There's now a suggestion

that in fact, he or he might find a good friend to pay the advance back and mean that it doesn't need to be published anymore. What do you think? Well, it's a pretty sizable advance to be paying back, isn't it? We know he's had something like £17 million of what we believe to be a £35 million advance. Wish my advice was right. I was going to say, for that amount of money. Goodness gracious me. It's a big old chunk, isn't it? Yeah, and the amount of money suggests he's got to say something for that.

Oh, absolutely. It can't be a book all about his philanthropy and his charity work. I mean, absolutely not. And I think, you know, when I was researching the new royals, I spoke to someone very close to the Sussexes and said, do they regret Oprah? Do they regret talking out? No, was the answer. No, absolutely not. They wanted to get their truth out. And I still think there is a big part of Harry and Meghan as well, but Harry who wants to get his version of events out, he wants to get his story out. I'm not so sure he will pull the plug on this autobiography. I certainly think revisions are as well, but Harry, who wants to get his version of events out, he wants to get his story out.

I'm not so sure he will pull the plug on this autobiography. I certainly think revisions are being made in light of the Queen's death. I think, you know, there are certain parts that are going to have to be rewritten. Certainly the book is going to need to be updated. But the idea that he's not going to do the autobiography, I mean, I could be wrong, but my hunch is that he will go ahead and do it. I mean, it's a multiple book deal. I'm told that Megan also wants to be writing an autobiography. I think this is a couple who really want the chance to speak up for themselves, to explain why they did what they did and how they did it, rather than have other people putting it into their words.

I think they've wanted for a long time to seize back that narrative. It's why they did Oprah. Yes. Reading your book, though, I think you're personally sad, aren't you, that the royal family couldn't have made use of this couple because there was a real power potentially attached to them, wasn't there? Well, there was. I mean, some people have accused me of being massive Sussex supporters. I mean, that's not the case.

I mean, I think you've read it clearly you you can see I don't take sides but I certainly look at the Sussexes um actually as the Queen did which was that they had the potential to be great assets I mean look at the roles that she gave them within the Commonwealth to the point that apparently Prince William Cambridge as he then, sort of actually rather fancied those plum rolls for himself. But the Queen could see the value that these two young popular royals could do and could have in the Commonwealth. And I do feel sad about how it all ended up. And you just wonder, had there perhaps been better communication between the principals? Perhaps had things been done differently,

the story wouldn't have ended up the way it did. I mean, ultimately, Harry and Meghan wanted a way out. I mean, I also think that the whole suggestion of Megsit, that it was all Meghan's idea to leave, that she is responsible for everything. I don't agree with that. I've met Harry on many occasions, and on some occasions he's told me he wished that he'd never been born a prince. I think there was a part of

him that was looking for a way out. And I think Meghan was the catalyst. And where I think I'm critical is of how they got out. And I think there was a lot of disrespect, particularly to the Queen, which she frankly didn't deserve. And as I reveal through the sources I spoke to, she was terribly hurt. How do you think Meghan and Harry's story ends? Wow, what a question that is. Listen, I'm always an optimist. I always like to see the glass half full. But you know, this is, it's a sad story. It's there is now a rift at the heart of Windsor. I mean, I certainly think a reconciliation is is quite a way off. I do believe that King Charles is determined to try and heal relationships, to try and move on.

He doesn't want his reign to be overshadowed by this family rift at the heart of it all. And so I don't know if I'm going to say there's a happy ending. I'm not sure there there's a happy ending. I'm not sure there'll be a happy ending. I think if there can be a level of understanding and compromise, then we might be halfway there. But I think it's some way off. So that was Katie Nicholl, Royal Correspondent for Vanity Fair about her new book, The New Royals, which is out now. I thought, gosh, many things during that interview. I think it's just so, I don't understand their world, Jane. I'm never going to understand the world.

I don't understand what I'm meant to think of their world anymore at all. Do you? The royals? Yep. I don't. I mean, I have become lately slightly obsessed by just the, particularly because so many people are having a tough time. I'm not saying I am.

Let me be clear about that. But this is going to be a really, really difficult winter for so many people are having a tough time. I'm not saying I am, let me be clear about that. But this is going to be a really, really difficult winter for so many people. And there still seems to be a reluctance in this country to fully discuss just what a privileged existence they have. And of course, they need looking after. I certainly don't want any of them to be made vulnerable. I totally with the idea of them having police protection and that sort of thing. But they do own huge chunks of the British countryside and a large number of properties. And no one seems to be, no one seems that exercised. I can't be alone. I know there are people who would like a republic.

I'm not saying I would, but I don't know. There seem to be more questions that we could ask and don't appear to be being asked that widely. Well, maybe this will be the year to ask them because there'll be so many conversations about modernisation. been more questions that we could ask and don't appear to be being asked that widely well maybe this will be the year to ask them because there'll be so many conversations about modernization because king charles the third in case you're worried it might be king charles the second king charles the third has already talked about a slimmed down coronation hasn't he in an attempt i think to stave off you in particular, Jane. Yeah, criticism coming his way. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen.

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And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Thank you for all of your emails so far. We would love to have more of them. Jane and Fi at Times.Radio. Philippa says, long time listener. I was delighted to know I was going to get more of you both live on air at times dot radio philippa says uh long time listener i was delighted to know i was going to get more of you both live on air and a podcast four times a week i'm one of the many ladies of a certain age who often in the wee small hours having listened to your first great

program live yesterday you were my go-to at 3 a.m this morning when i couldn't sleep i loaded the podcast and settled down in the dark under my duvet to listen. Lordy. Please warn your other listeners about the loud... Watch your language, Philippa, please. Please warn your listeners about the loud jingle halfway through. I very nearly had a heart attack. It was so unexpected. I'm sure my neighbours heard me squeal. I'd hate you to have on your conscience a few dead nocturnal devotees.

And do you know what? Of all of the aims in what we've done in our move from the previous place to this place, dead nocturnal listeners is not do you know what? Of all of the aims in what we've done in our move from the previous place to this place, dead nocturnal listeners is not on the list, Philippa. So all I can say was we'll pass that on to the very talented people in charge of the tech and try not to make it too loud in the middle. Quieten down the jingle. This is from Alison. I listened to your first podcast and I really enjoyed Jamie Oliver in particular. I thought it was really powerful. I agree he did sound a bit worn out,

but then that's what decades of campaigning for better food for kids and the population does to you in this economic and political environment. Seven prime ministers, 13 education secretaries. His job must feel like it's getting harder, not easier. I'm a big fan of his. How many other TV chefs can you name who use their clout to fight for better food for low-income families and people? I can't think of his. How many other TV chefs can you name who use their clout to fight for better food for

low-income families and people? I can't think of one. And I really hope he keeps fighting. Best of luck with the new job, says Alison. P.S. The change in the order of your names has not gone unnoticed. What's the story behind that, she wonders. What is the story, Jane? No, it's nothing. You know, it's nothing to do with me. It really wasn't. I mean, obviously, Garvey does come before Glover alphabetically, but we were very happy with Fee and Jane

because that was alphabetical order as well and I was okay with that. So I said in a meeting, so I don't know why I'm laughing so much. I don't know either. No, it's just because someone had said to me at the weekend, did Jane have the most almighty showbiz hissy fit and say, I'm not going to the station,

that's my name comes first. And that couldn't be further from the truth. So I said in a meeting where we were talking about names for the programme, I think it's time that the names go the other way round. Because it's been Fee and Jane for five years and we never had a meeting about that. So let's do Jane and Fee this time round.

But it is quite funny because now many emails have been circulated around the whole of this building saying you must put Jane's name telling people so I don't I don't blame people for wondering you're not you're not alone in wondering Alison is that my sister by the way surprise me she did have some queries okay um this is um was something that I think we had sort of lined up as being a vaguely amusing item, but actually turned out to be rather heartbreaking and also life-enhancing at the same time. I thought this was an absolute stunner of an interview. So Kayleigh Stead, who is a bride who was getting ready for her big day, only for her husband-to-be to get cold feet and jilter at the altar. That's such a harsh expression.

It's an awful expression. So he didn't show up, but she was amazing. And all of her friends gathered round and said, why don't we just carry on? And she said, yes, let's have the party. First dance and all, wedding cake and all, in order to not live with the memory of that day as being unutterably sad and lonely.

I thought she was just terrific. Yeah, very articulate and emotionally intelligent young woman who will find one day a true prince. I really hope so. Well, I know she will. She deserves it. So here is Kayleigh just explaining what happened. My family had travelled from all over,

my friend had travelled from all over the UK. So I even had family, friends coming over from Ireland. So it was a matter of people driving half an hour here there to get to the Gower people have traveled nine hours or even flew over to come to the wedding um so I still wanted them to enjoy and then when I had the conversation with my sister and she said well they're not going to stay if you don't stay and that's when I realized yeah that's true and I think at that moment it wasn't just the day that I was thinking of it was the kind of it was the loss of a marriage that I was going through at the same time if that makes sense yes

the day was a day it was the whole kind of marriage that I was kind of trying to comprehend in one kind of second that I'd lost. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely get that because you could probably just about get through the day. But the days afterwards, they must have been really tough for you. Oh, absolutely. It's the day after was probably the hardest day because it's I kind of feel like it's a bit like when you go and go to a funeral, when you have a funeral, you're planning for a funeral, you're planning to say goodbye. And then the day after, when nobody's there to kind of be with you because they think that the day is done, you've said your goodbyes. Yes, you're over it now. And I kind of felt like that, that I'd had my day. My people have been around me kind of rallying again, like with me, keeping me up, let me cry on their shoulder, laughing with me, having shots of tequila with me.

me up let me cry on their shoulder laughing with me having shots of tequila with me and then the day after everybody went home and then I had to kind of go back home to all of his stuff to stuff that we had planned to kind of make a family with so I think yeah that's that was the hardest part the day wasn't the hard part the day after was yeah we really feel for you really feel for you Kayleigh and just going back to the day itself though did did his family and friends also stay to carry on a party with you so all his family left um because I think they were just a bit like they were obviously taken back by it and that's their their son their grandson so they're gonna stick by him no matter what because it's not as you said earlier rightly so he was kind of within his whole kind of right to leave and not do the day or say no or not be with me it's the fact that he didn't kind of yes speak to me or didn't own his own

decision that's the thing that kind of got me on the day that I kind of took me back uh but all his groomsmen stayed so every single one of his groomsmen his best friends who came from his hometown sorry traveled four hours on a train they'd stayed for the day and they celebrated the day with me and I think they were in as much as a shock as I was because they had no communication from him either so they didn't know what was going on or why he had left or why he made that decision. So they were in the dark as much as I was. So they had a loss as much as I had a loss.

Yeah. It's good that they stayed, though. I'm really glad to hear that. Really glad to hear that. Absolutely. And there was a couple of tequilas, couples of laughs, couple of cries. But honestly, the fact that they walked and did the entrance in with me with Lizzo. So we entered into the party, the groomsmen, the bridesmaids and me into Lizzo's good as hell. And the fact that they did my first dance with me.

That is a moment that I'm always going to cherish. And was my moment of kind of going, I've still got this. Yeah. Well, you've also got the support of your best mate, Geordie. You've got your sister on side as well. Yeah. Their support must have meant the world to you. But genuinely, open question, how are you now? So I've taken a bit of time off work just to kind of focus on me

and find me again because I'm kind of mourning who I was going to be so I was going to be a wife going to have missus and I was looking forward to kind of getting a home so I think that's what I'm kind of grieving at the moment if I can say grieving it sounds a bit dramatic but I don't think it is dramatic really no it isn't because I'm because of because of the lack of communication from him and the fact that he just went out of my life with no warning. There wasn't no kind of talking between us. There was no kind of amicable kind of passing or conversational conclusion. It feels a bit like a death, if that makes sense, because he was gone, he vanished. So I'm kind of going through that. But at the time I know I'm going to be okay so I've got that

kind of pushing me through like at the end of the day I'm still my independent self I've still got my family I've still got my friends and the the love that I've had and support that I've had from people in the social media world has been incredible and I can't thank them enough and hearing that women and men have gone through similar stories that I have yeah shocks me because I honestly felt like a movie you don't really hear about this in your day-to-day life um and I'm so happy that my kind of carrying on and my perseverance has brought somebody else kind of a bit of like hope at the same time. Do you know, I think your story is just so incredible, Katie, because the idea that if you'd taken a different path on that day

and you'd realised that he wasn't going to show up and you'd just turned the music down, screwed the lid back on the tequila, it features quite a lot in your story. It does. Respect to you, lady. You know, and taking the dress off and the makeup off and you know got just gone home actually that is so desperately desperately sad isn't it but you

have completely owned a bad situation and and in a way you've kind of done the hard work on it I think yeah I'm a big thing because of the way that I've been brought up. So like my mum's disabled and like I've always, I live in a council area. So I've kind of always defined myself by how I overcome things, not by the actual bad moments, as cheesy as that sounds, but how I kind of look on life. I always try to look after future Kayleigh. And that's what I was thinking on that day. I was thinking, how do I want to lock on myself in a couple of days time?

Do I want to still be crying in my bed? Because I easily and justifiably could have been just gone home and cried in my bed. But that wouldn't have kind of brought me the pride that I'm feeling now about how I reacted on that day. Well, I think you're incredible. And just a really quick question. Financially, are you going to be OK now or are you still out of pocket? So I'm not out of pocket now with the wedding. Good. Yeah. So that's been a massive help. And I think everybody at the moment is struggling kind of with the cost of living. I think that's not going to go away. But the fact that I've been able to be indemnify myself before the actual wedding and how I was financially that's been a massive massive help because it's allowed me to kind of be able to kind of go yes because I live in my parents' sea so it's given me the opportunity

to kind of find a bit of my a different type of independence living on my own so that's what the money will be going towards is and also going on a holiday because I deserve some sun I deserve to get away yes and and uh but also trying to find a bit of my own independence outside of kind of living with my parents does it does it put you off getting married again so I thought it would um so on the day I I never saw the ceremony room so I never saw the the room that I was going to walk down in in my dress that you always kind of picture up um picture when you're a little girl I never got to kind of see the room that was going to say I do and I think not seeing that room has helped me because I there's one thing that I haven't done on the wedding day

because I've done everything else like cut the cake had my first dance and I haven't done on the wedding day because I've done everything else, like cut the cake, had my first dance. And I wouldn't want to take that away from my future partner because they might want a wedding day. They may want to celebrate with their family and friends, have the first dance, have the I do's. And however they want to do it on the day, I'm going to follow their kind of journey because I'm not in a position to take away something somebody has taken away from me if that makes sense well Kayleigh the very very best of luck um there's somebody out there waiting for you and I just hope they deserve you um because you're remarkable um take very much take care of yourself and enjoy that holiday have a lovely day guys thank you very much that is Kayleigh Stead I think Kayleigh future Kayleigh should do whatever Kayleigh wants to do.

Yeah, absolutely. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now, you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can. Monday to Thursday, three to five on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon goodbye voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can

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