Off Air... with Jane and Fi - On the front line of bants (with Ruth Jones)

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

Jane and Fi chat throughFi is a vision in burnt orange and Jane doesn’t have drool on her but you wouldn’t know that as they aren’t in front of the cameras...today. Welsh actress, writer and comedian Ruth Jones is today's guest, she talks about her third novel Love Untold and how it mixes the Welsh landscape with family estrangement.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @JaneandFiAssistant Producer: Elizabeth HighfieldTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Now, due to tech, are we going to say technical difficulties? What are we going to say? What old excuse are we going to come up with? I think it's administrative difficulty. Double booking. Double booking in the studio. So we managed to do one edition of the podcast in vision. And the reason they've given us for us being back in the studio is that there was a double booking.

But I don't know, if we wanted to pass now, it might be empty. Well, let's not torture ourselves by doing that. Let's not. And to be fair, we did get a couple of emails from people saying, look, this isn't what I signed up to. Yeah. So we appreciate that. And to be honest, we more than hear you.

So it may very well be that this already curtailed one week experiment may not, in fact, progress from this point. Yeah. So Kate says, what's with the cameras ladies there's a permanent background airy sound yeah yes there was i get that yeah and i could swear there's been a slight loss of the ease and intimacy that's always given the show an undertone of hilarious subversion yeah yeah so i become, it's a very weird thing, isn't it, Jane? Because we do live in an increasingly visual world. And I was actually trying to give myself a bit of a talking to this morning. So I got a bit of a tizzy about, I found myself thinking,

what should I wear to work today? Because we're going to be in vision. You are a vision in burnt orange. A lovely dress. No, that's very kind. But did you have the same thing? Wait. OK.

I mean, I always look clean. You do. And I'm always wearing something that's been ironed. Yeah, but there's never any kind of dribble or drool down you. Well, not until a bit later in the day. It depends what I've had for lunch. If I have one of those overfilled baguettes from a popular high street store, then that can cause trouble. They can go a bit spl in the day. It depends what I've had for lunch. If I have one of those overfilled baguettes from a popular high street store, then that can cause

trouble. They can go a bit splurgy. But as we know, there's a worldwide Sriracha crisis. That's good news for your laundry. It is good news for my laundry. And Sriracha, we did mention it on the programme briefly, but it's one of those products that has snuck into my life and taken on a power that is really quite

extraordinary. I mean, sriracha wasn't a thing, was it, three or four years ago? No. And now it's dolloped on practically everything. What is the difference between sriracha and spicy kind of ketchup? Well, the price. And also sriracha just sounds a bit more foreign and a bit more challenging. Can I say just a bit more hip and happening, 21st century. I say, just a bit more hip and happening 21st century. And it's in a different bottle as well, isn't it?

With the pointy thing at the top. It's called a nozzle. I like the word nozzle. It's more of a directional... Condiment. Speaking of which, people who've listened to us blithering on for some time may well recall the time I had trouble fitting my garden hosepipe.

Oh, God, do we have to return to that? No, no, only because I had to seek the advice of one of those men in a polo shirt on YouTube who do these, I have to say, really helpful short films about how to do things. And I must have watched this one geezer reattaching his hose pipe with all the appropriate it's more complicated than you might imagine anyway it turns out i was doing it completely wrong four or five years ago because i did it last weekend it only took 30 seconds okay i just unscrewed one thing and shoved in another hose pipes don't last forever. There was a right old kink in the old one. Oh, my word. Okay.

Just telling people. A couple of decades ago, I was just going to say, there's something weird. I think we've just fallen into two groups, don't we, as human beings. You either like your visual image

or you don't. Yes. I don't think it does change with time. No. Well, we are living in a world of selfies. So I see my friends now on the Insta or Twitter or WhatsApp or whatever,

in vision, way more than I ever did. And I don't mind that at all. But I can't really take a selfie of myself and send it. I still think that that is pompous and vain. So the idea of our lovely medium of audio where we just burble along together suits me absolutely just fine and i think many of our listeners as well and so i'm not sure that that and i'm and i'm not being a kind of luddite about it because i will try and get better at it and not feel so um kind of exposed but i just don't I just don't really get why anybody would want to watch us, Jane.

No. Well, we'll see. Let's see. I'm kind of 150 million trillion percent behind you, but I can't say that officially. No, okay. So if any management is listening, just don't take any notice of that at all. We're going to give it some welly and we'll see what happens.

Yes, okay. Interesting that Meta is coming up with its alternative to Twitter, which I think is something we'll discuss on the radio programme tomorrow with the excellent Chris Stoke-Walker, when we talk tech. But of course I won't be using it for you because it's got the

awful name of Threads and that is triggering for you, isn't it? Triggering and it will be for many 80s kids who watch that post-apocalyptic BBC film from some years ago. So it's funny that they obviously wanted a name, and there's no reason why they'd know that Threads would be triggering for many of us who grew up in Britain in the 1980s. But if you are triggered by it, I suspect you won't be flocking to post on threads. I think most people get over the name quite quickly.

Okay, well, let's see. But at least it's not one of those terrible er ones, because I absolutely had it with the er's. What you mean when they miss out? Tumblr, Grindr, Twitter, everything with an er on the end of it. Yeah, and worse when they take the vowels out. What's that company that changed its name? Aberdeen.

Aberdeen. Aberdeen. Aberdeen. Well, to be fair, that's how people in Scotland speak. No, it's not. It's absolutely not. It's the Scottish... Is it the Scottish Coronation tomorrow?

Well, it's the coronation in Scotland of King Charles. I think a lot of people in Scotland would really objectively call it the Scottish coronation. I don't mean to cause offence at all, I'm just interested. It would be interesting to see how many people show up for the public part of the ceremonial. I'm not

casting aspersions, I'm just merely wondering. Did you not want to go? Well, we weren't asked. We weren't. We absolutely weren't. I could trip into work tomorrow in the McGarvey Tartan and attract a wide appeal. Wide appeal?

What am I talking about? What am I talking about? I don't know, Jane. Do you know where you are? Vaguely. Do you know what day of the week it is? Oh. Tuesday.

Okay. Dear Jane and Fee, long-? Oh, Tuesday. Okay, right. Dear Jane and Fee, long-term listener, first time getting in touch. I do feel that Wes Streeting, while a very interesting interview, avoided the real challenge with Stonewall. The reason that so many organisations are distancing themselves from Stonewall is that their guidance might have been incorrect in law. He gave the example of equal marriage, but broadly speaking, this was not a controversial issue.

So he's a true politician, very smooth, very practised in responding to controversial questions, but avoided the really thorny issue. Love the show. Thank you. Cheers, Marie, or Mary, because it could be either because she's in Glasgow, which could be Glasgow. But quite a few people really, really loved Wes Streeting

and thought that he spoke an awful lot of sense in a very measured and thoughtful way that perhaps isn't always at the call of a politician. He is a very human politician, isn't he? In fact, he talks human. And let's be honest, not all politicians do. It doesn't always mean by the way that they're not nice people the ones who can't do the human because sometimes

they turn out to be much nicer than you might expect when you get to meet them but he is a communicator and I dare say it will carry him far it really will. Just it's not entirely unconnected but this is from a listener.

We don't need to mention their name, but they just say, I wonder if I could open a conversation about being a parent of a transgender child. My daughter announced last year that she wanted to be a transgender male. Now, we were accepting of this. It was a shock, but we do want to be as open as possible. It has been far harder to accept than I was expecting, though. My logical brain is saying that my child is still there but my heart is broken. I have two sons who I love dearly and I feel that my daughter has rejected me as a role model. I now feel a bit of an outsider in my own family. I think my heart just leapt to the end game of hormones and a mastectomy. As a menopausal woman, I just know how hard this is going to be. I now realise I've got to deal with each stage as it happens.

It's so hard when my friends post pictures of their confident daughters in prom dresses and my heart just constricts. I can't post pictures of my son as not everybody knows yet, so I can't out him as openly as that. But it just makes me feel that people think I'm not proud of him. But I definitely am. And the email goes on and it's pretty intimate. And I don't, not because I'm not interested in what you've written. I think it's extremely touching and very important.

But I just think we probably should leave it there because I wouldn't want to involve your son in publicity that he definitely doesn't want at this stage so but I do think that your initial point about opening up a conversation is something that we could pursue and I must admit I hadn't thought about that business of having your heart broken because your your son wants your daughter has rejected you as a role model I don't think that's something you should feel do you that seems a very hard judgment but actually I had never thought about the sense of loss that you might feel as a parent because in your mind's eye all the time with kids is what their future might look like and it's not self-indulgent to imagine all of those

really big events further down the line so when you have to change all of those it must feel very strange and it must be accompanied by uh if not a sense of disappointment then certainly a sense of something just a little bit disconcerting. So that's definitely worth a conversation. Yeah, it definitely is. And I wonder if just someone out there can help this listener who is really wrestling with all this at the moment. I mean, she's absolutely coming at it from a place of love and wants to be completely understanding,

but this stuff is not easy for anybody. So janeandfee at times.radio, if you can help out, if perhaps you've been there or you've got some proper useful advice I'd also say actually just going back to what Fee was saying earlier about the images that people post, you know people who do put up pictures of their

seemingly super confident daughters in their fabulous prom dresses you can bet your life there's a story there as well Oh tears and tantrums Yes and then you know filters and affectations You can bet your life there's a story there as well. Oh, tears and tantrums. Yes, absolutely. And then, you know, filters and affectations. So the whole thing's just a bit of a mirage, isn't it?

Yeah. Thursday Latitude. Now, Jane, I mean, we've talked about this a little bit before, but as a woman who decried festivals, and particularly the chemical toilets of festivals, you now find yourself in the mire. Because we are at Latitude, the music and arts festival in Suffolk.

We're going on the Thursday. The festival starts on the Friday. We're not going to do what I think Elton referred to as deep cuts. We'll just do our greatest hits, a bit like he did at Glastonbury. And I mean, Fee's right. We have been rather oddly booked before the festival opens. It felt a little cruel, but we're just going along anyway because we're biddable enough old trouts. We are, aren't we?

So Helen says, good to hear that you're attending. We will be there. We, along with the majority, arrive Thursday, so look forward to hearing from you. Why do you think you are pre-festival only? What tent are you in please? Or are you playing an instrument? Well, I'm not

bringing the oboe. Oh dear It's not seen the light of day for 30 years and it's not going to I think, I don't know what type of tent we're in but we've had quite a lot of conversations about what might be inside the tent What type of mattress? How far are the loos? All of those kind of things.

And I know that people start to arrive on Thursday, but there's nothing on the stages apart from us on Thursday. So, Helen, if you're coming, please just come and say hello. Yeah, and I do need to say again, hello, Christine, who I met on the platform at King's Cross last night. You do, yeah. Who was listening to Fat Tony and just had one of those funny moments. She was listening to the edition of Off Air

in which we interviewed Fat Tony and then just did a double funny moments. She was listening to the edition of Off Air in which we interviewed Fat Tony and then just did a double take when she saw me slumped against a wall waiting for a train, as I do so attractively after work. Of course, I don't always use that line. I don't want to attract too much attention. Were you shuzzled? No, I just get... No-one looks happy at King's Cross Station at about six o'clock at night.

Have you ever been? No, because usually I ask the driver to just go straight on down the Euston Road. Of course I have. So I find I can get a seat... I have to do one stand-up tube line and then I get on the overground and I can get a seat on the overground.

Well, we're both canny operators there because I've worked out a route where I can guarantee a seat depending on where I stand on the platform. And at our age, Jane, it is important. Well, it makes all the difference, doesn't it, to that journey home? It does, yeah. I couldn't believe it when I got back last night. I mean, I've got two adult children and I arrived, the first thing I was asked was,

what are we having? And you just think, you know, I'm 108 years of age. I have been at work all day. At the cold face of chat. On the front line of Bantz. And then expected to conjure something up. I've now got this visual image of them like, you know, tiny little birds in the nest. Yeah, that's what they're like. something up. I've now got this visual image of them like tiny little birds in the nest.

That's what they're like. So I open the door now and I have Nance scatters down the stairs. And Barbara. Brian, Barbara, Cool Cat, who's the fattest cat in Hackney. Doesn't probably move. Ambles round the corner, sashaying with his stomach from side to side. There's a lot of feeding before I can manage to

shove something in my gob. That menagerie of yours just gets ever bigger. It does, doesn't it? Actually, I've noticed just today I've started to get loads of alerts from the local cats home with new cats up for adoption. So I'll ping some in your direction. You could have a few more, couldn't you? Oh, gosh. Now, do you think, in all seriousness,

is that because people got cats and then it's summer holidays and they're thinking, I don't really want to have to manage a cat on a holiday? Oh, God, I really hope not. Why would there be a sudden upsurge? I don't know. I don't know why I'm suddenly getting all these notifications again. Because it went quiet for years and now I'm suddenly getting loads.

Maybe it's just something I've ticked. Could easily be. I should say, because people do care, in cat news, Dora has started going to the toilet outside it's a small thing no important thing but also very wonderful yes um so i'm just so proud of her we all are well done dora she's nearly three so she's bided her time and now she's doing it and of course the next thing is i wanted bided her time and now she's doing it. And, of course, the next thing is I wanted to get her doing it in other people's gardens.

It's no good doing it in mine. I tell you what, when you've got three cats, that is the knack. Yeah, well, get them. I told you about a friend of mine who was spoken to by her neighbour who asked her in all sincerity, could you ask your cats to stop pooing in our garden? And my mate found herself saying, yes, OK, no, I'll have a word. You know, truth is, I hate to break it to the neighbour, you can't.

They don't speak human, though, and they go back to the same place. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, we had a great guest today, didn't we? Yeah, and let's move on to the great guest, because I think we've probably done a feline poo. Yes. We should say at this point that other great guests are coming your way this week. Tomorrow it's Kate Moss with the E,

so she is the writer and the woman who does so much actually for other female writers and bigs up their achievements, so she's worth celebrating. She has a new book called The Ghost Ship, and she'll be with us tomorrow. And then on Thursday, it's Catlin Moran,

who is going to discuss her new book, non-fiction book, about men. I think it's called What About Men, isn't it? Yeah, and it's about where men are at at the moment and whether or not they've been slightly left behind. And, you know, what I think, I mean, all of her books, previous books have been about female identity and perhaps a new female identity that people have confidence about and this one is about men and whether or not they have kind of managed the same thing. And today's big guest was Ruth Jones who's written her third novel Love Untold it's just out in

paperback and it's actually a really lovely read, actually a listen in my case, because I got the audio book, which Ruth reads, which I can also heartily recommend. It's about four generations of the same family, great grandmother, who's called Grace, a grandmother, Alice, a mother, Ellen, and a daughter, a teenage daughter called Becca. It's set in Wales. And it's actually a really lovely book. So it's called Love Untold, out now, you will enjoy it. Take it from me. But when we met Ruth this afternoon, we started by talking about the last time we'd all talked together. Would have been around September 2020, I think, something like that.

Golden days. Yeah. Yes. I think I was in an attic room like grace pool yes and um just uh yeah and chatting away to you but it was it was quite strange she just didn't have that communication did you no did you tell us did you ever get covid anybody close to you yes yeah i did i i in fact i came to london to get it at the new year uh last not not just not the one just gone 22 right because i thought well let's get it out of the way and and we did we succeeded you were a later doctor of it no it was the second time around okay it was that new version okay yeah so yeah knock that one off as well yeah right ticked it off my bucket list all right well great well you look radiant today

thank you you've just got back from Scotland. Yes, I have. It's very rainy and midgy, but it has been... It's not brilliant here, is it? No, but not many midges in London, I don't think.

So I haven't been bitten yet. Okay. But, you know, time is... Well, she does, you know, she can attack us. But I'm really hopeful.

She'll be a little nip. She's going to do it. I'm on holiday next week. Can't come soon enough. She she does that's why she's in such a good mood um okay so love untold it's um it's out now on paperback you wrote it some time ago now i'm going to say that this is um it's what i call a superior companionable read or in my case a listen because i listen to it and i love listening to books now it's a big thing um and it's about four generations of one family it's about the great-grandmother the grandmother the mother and the daughter and I actually when I first started listening was thinking well in how many families do you ever get

that four generations thing going on you actually have to be quite long livers don't you gosh yes because my great-grandmother um she must I think she died in around, I don't know, 1920 or something. So, yeah, I think it's very rare. My friend Nicola knew her great-grandmother. I suppose it just depends, doesn't it, if you're an early, if you have kids early, I suppose, you have to keep it going. You all have to have kids early. Yes, I guess that's right, yeah,

because I did meet one of my great-grandmothers, and I can remember very strong memories of her. She used to give me, do you remember sweet cigarettes? Oh, my right, yeah, because I did meet one of my great-grandmothers and I can remember very strong memories of her. She used to give me, do you remember sweet cigarettes? Oh, my gosh, yeah. She used to come on every Sunday for Sunday lunch and she'd give me a packet of sweet fags and we'd smoke together. And you could suck them into a really sharp point, couldn't you? Yeah, yeah, quality time with the family.

So did she smoke real fags and you had the sweet version? Yeah, well, yes, that's right, yes. No, I didn't smoke real fags. No, I just wondered whether she was just having the sweet version. No, no, she had the real fags. You used to be able to, in cold weather, you could have one of those sweet cigarettes and then pretend to actually smoke by breathing out and seeing the breath.

Happy days. Happy days. Do you think somebody, some sweet manufacturer now, is busy making fake vapes that are just out of the gosh? Well, they should be if they're not. They were bad days. We shouldn't joke about vapes. No.

Okay. So what I really like about it is that all four women really do come to life. And what's so intriguing about it is that the eldest of all is Grace, who's 89, and her daughter Alice, who's gone missing, is unknown to the family, thinks of her mother as a wildly conventional dullard. And in fact, as we discover during the course of the book, she is so wrong. Yes, she's got quite a past, has Grace. She's, to all intents and purposes, to the outsider, she does seem like a kind of a conventional, in inverted commas, old lady. She does seem like kind of a conventional, in inverted commas, old lady.

Yeah, yeah. But she also does things like she does yoga, she goes wild swimming. She still drives and has quite an active social life. When I told my mum, who's in her mid-80s, about Grace, and I said, oh, she does yoga and Pilates, my mother said, well, that's ridiculous. Nobody will ever believe that. Is she Welsh?

She is, yes. She's ridiculous. Nobody will ever believe that. Is she Welsh? She is. Yes. Tad Welsh. Okay. Yes. Yes, but she does have a past. And I think I quite like, I love watching sort of sagas that span the years, you know, and the generations. So I quite liked writing a story that sort of where you meet somebody

in the present day and then you find out about their past and you find out what they were like years ago. Kind of quite like that, dipping, going back and forth between years. And that's what we get. We get the four perspectives of the four female characters. And also we have a teenage girl as well, who is, they're not easy to bring to life, teenage girls.

Oh, no. They can be quite hard to live with. Although I'm now through that phase officially, although sometimes it's hard to tell. And you seem to inhabit Becca's head really well. Oh, I'm glad you said that because I think probably Becca was the one I found the hardest to write just because, you know, I pride myself in thinking, yeah, I'm young at heart and I'm still a teenager inside. Well, I'm not. Not like teenagers today.

I had to talk to my niece, who's 16, to try and get just even an idea of what language they use. But I think understanding the big emotions, I think those perhaps, I think that landscape has sort of remained the same in terms of the challenges, the insecurities, who likes me today, who doesn't, who do I like, you know, all of that. So I think I kind of, that's what I was sort of trying to tune into, I guess, with Becca. I guess, with Becca. And at the heart of the story is the estrangement between Grace, who's nearly 90, and her daughter, Alice, who's gone for a Burton. Well, we don't know where she is.

She's in her early 70s. Yes. Now, that sort of estrangement is actually much more common than I think most of us realise, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, yes, I have heard of that happening. I suppose it's quite a tall order to believe that Alice hasn't spoken to her mum for 30 years. I don't know about that.

I think perhaps what happens is this event happens between them that causes this awful rift. And then as time goes by it just becomes harder and harder to reach out and and make up I guess and so in fact becomes easier to pretend that neither of you exist though of course for Grace it's her daughter and she thinks about her all the time I think with Alice she's a little bit in denial because that's the sort of person Alice is. So, yeah, I thought it would be quite interesting to see what would happen if we brought them back together.

And, of course, Alice is not just estranged from her mum, but she's also estranged from her daughter, which was even more of a challenge because whereas Grace would welcome her daughter back into her life with open arms it would be the opposite for Alice's daughter so yeah lots of dramatic challenges there. Do you enjoy writing the female characters more than male characters because obviously you are known in other parts of your career for some really amazing male characters oh thank you um I think

I suppose some of the male characters I've written have been quite funny so I don't know whether that makes it a bit easier to write male characters I getting into the actual emotional psyche so we've got in us in love untold we have greg who is um ellen's husband i found him ellen is the daughter is the daughter of alice head teacher i should have said yes she's a head teacher and she and greg are having marital problems and i did find when i first wrote when I wrote the first draft of the book, I made Greg out to be perhaps a little bit more of an idiot. Like, like, you know, because, well, I'm not really spoiling the story too much, but he has an affair. And I sort of was making fun of him a bit that he was having this midlife crisis and, you know, just making a bit of a fool of himself, really. And then I

didn't, I thought, oh, am I being a bit unfair on him? So I had to sort of rein that in a little bit. But of course, I'm not a bloke, and I don't know what it feels like to go through those emotional challenges. So yeah, I guess I just tried my best, really, to do what I thought that he would think. Do you think that people pick up your books not having a clue about your acting career?

I'd like to think that. I've met people on, when I've done like book tours and done promotion for my books, I have met people who've said, and kind of like really apologising for themselves, saying, I've never seen Gavin and Stacey. Can I just say, I've never seen Gavin and Stacey. And I say, oh, I'm really impressed, actually.

That's nice to know. And also I've met people where they've said, oh, I really love your books and haven't commented on TV. So that feels quite nice. Because obviously when I wrote the first novel, I was thinking, well, people are probably going to expect this to be about a woman in a leather miniskirt who lives down the islands, you know. And so, yeah, it was

nice when people didn't react in that way. And they kind of took the book for what it was. So for people who don't know what that reference is, just think, gosh, what a flight of fancy. is you just think, gosh, what a flight of fancy. It's better explained. So this is the amazing character of Nessa, who you wrote in Gavin and Stacey. And I wonder whether you, do you miss her sometimes? She was just, she was larger than life in every way, Ruth, wasn't she?

Oh, I do. I do miss her, but she's very much with me quite a lot. I mean, I find myself often retorting and saying things to people like, oh, what are you talking about? Oi! And sort of like find myself going into Nessa mode and say, I know, I know. And I've got, oh, I sounded like Nessa then, didn't I? But I kind of keep her alive a little bit because I often get asked to do video messages for people. But you did one for my daughter.

Oh, yes. Telling her to behave better. Did it work? No. I want my money back. No, we still, it's our kind of comfort. We go there, we get you out. Oh, that's so nice.

We're just going to play Nessa. I mean, she's 25, but no, isn't quite but it's it's quite nice to i mean actually we were talking about the the pandemic i did do um a stay at home message as nessa and i put all the gear on and everything took me ages to film it because i kept like seeing you know there'd be a pigeon in the window or something and trying to uh to make it look like a a decent sort of set um and i did do a um uh just because you don't look yeah was it just because you don't feel ill don't mean you're not infected stay home stay safe and protect the nhs obviously goes without saying and i so i did that kind of thing was that an official one for the Welsh government? No, I can't remember. Somebody mentioned it and doing something. I sort of did it off my own back, really. But you can still see it on YouTube.

That's way better than Boris Johnson's. Probably a lot more effective. Will Nessa ever come back? Oh, I don't know. I get asked it all the time. And I don't know. But there's part of me that thinks because people go oh you can't leave that series ending like that with us not knowing and I go why not why can't we just imagine what Nessa and Smithy are doing now did they get married

didn't they get married do they still see each other you know I quite like the idea of leaving it to people's imaginations I can maybe unpopular opinion but I'd like to say I'm happy to leave them where they are because I thought of them wrestling at the moment with their mortgage going up and you know it's there's a lot of challenges around exactly and also I don't know whether we feel terribly voyeuristic to see Nessa and Smithy as a couple and seeing them living together. I don't know. I'm not sure it would work for me somehow. I think it's better to leave it. And also that thing of leave people wanting more. A lot of people will say, oh, no, no, no. Finish it there. Finish it there.

Others will say, no, you have to bring it back. You have to bring it back. But I mean, James is living in America. I know he's coming back, but there's not been any plans. So he's never wanted it to carry on and you've had to say, I'm not sure that this would work for me. I think we both at different times and same time sort of thought that we might um well if i go back to before we did the christmas special you know that was 10 years that passed before we actually did the 2019 special and i think then we thought we wouldn't ever bring it back again and we did um i don't know i just i i think we both think we both think there are pros and cons. Can I just say, it is notable that when you talk about it, there's a little bit of a glimmer, isn't there?

You know what I mean? Well, it was a really, really happy time. It was, you know, we had such great fun, such great fun. The cast just, you know, we got on so well and it was it was like a I know it sounds a bit pretentious but it was like a family and um and and the crew you know and work it was everybody just enjoyed working on it and people coming to see us film and especially when we did the special um it was just lovely the way that people enjoyed it so much and what I get a lot of pleasure from is when I meet people and they say, oh, I re-watched the series, all three series, whatever or Gavin and Stacey got me through a really bad time in my life

got me through a divorce or illness or bereavement and you think, well, that makes it worthwhile, doesn't it, really? bereavement and you think well that makes it worthwhile doesn't it really voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with from 10 to 11 and get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. I asked Ruth Jones what she watches on television for pleasure, and now she's not really on it.

I haven't done any acting for ages. Apparently I made an appearance on The Voice Kids the other night I did a video message for Neil the Baby who is now a singer and he auditioned for The Voice and did he do alright? I don't know I didn't watch the programme somebody just told me that I was on it

right you see that's when you know you've reached a real level of you don't need to bother finding out whether you've been on telly or not officially so do you do you not get offers of acting roles? Yes, I do. I do.

And I will. I will go back to it. I just wanted a bit of a break, really. And it's been nice having a break. And, you know, I'm writing my fourth novel, so that takes up a lot of time as well. Now, is that whole new characters, or do we revisit some

old old friends no it's a brand new story brand new and um i'm coming at this one from a very different angle and i'm quite enjoying it uh it might all end up in the bin because it's very early days i've done about 15 000 words of it so far so we'll see would you really be able to put 15 000 words in a bin no i wouldn't i just something would happen to it yeah rehash it recycle it into something so is it what a thriller or oh gosh no i well can you imagine me writing a thriller yes yeah why not really yes i i see i can't take myself seriously enough that's the problem and i i would find myself it's a bit like writing sex in a novel. You sort of just...

You kind of throw yourself into it and then you go, I sound a bit of a nerd now, a bit of an idiot. I'd be like that with a thriller. You told us earlier that you couldn't do the audiobook of your first novel because there was too much sex in it. Yes. And also it was set in Scotland.

Yes, so I would be struggling not just with sexual content, but also a Scottish accent. So Sharon Small read Never Greener, and a marvellous job she did of it too. But no, I kept thinking, oh gosh, my mother will listen to this, and oh, it'll be just really embarrassing. Don't you know what? Scottish sex is incredibly difficult with. I don't think I've ever experienced it, actually.

Do you think that you found something in writing that you didn't find in acting? Yes, I do, actually, because I think I can express myself better. I think I can be clearer about what I'm trying to say it's the same with speaking I can the written word I can absolutely convey what I mean um with acting it's a little bit hit and miss with me sometimes I can do it and sometimes I don't um I never kind of really think of myself as a proper grown-up actor like you know the sort of um oh daniel day lewis type of acting where they

you know you really immerse yourself or michael sheen you immerse yourself into the into the role i don't i can't quite it's this thing of not being able to take myself seriously okay well can i ask have you seen that thing that michael sheen has done with david tennant oh yes it's marvelous isn't it well i found it insufferable. Sorry. Did you? Yeah, utterly. I'm sorry.

I just couldn't bear it. But didn't you think they were, like, it was very tongue-in-cheek? I had no idea. I just never, I don't get what it was meant to be. Did you like it? You're talking about, sorry, the one that was on in 2020? Well, they brought it back recently as well. So it was on, wasn't it, at the height of the lockdown?

Yes. And it was basically two trapped thesps. Yeah. Apparently I've just been told we're asking for them to come on as guests. Well, they didn't tell me. Sorry. Well, that's another gap. Are you free next Wednesday, Ruth?

Could you bring an ensemble cast with you? Well, if it's tongue-in-cheek, maybe I'll watch it again in a whole new light. Oh, I enjoyed it because I thought they were sort of taking the mick out of themselves. I think they were sending themselves out, weren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Jane. Oh, dear. I'm not going to speak again for the rest of the encounter.

When we met before, Ruth, we had a really, really lovely conversation with you before. You gave us a little insight into the world of your telecommunications with James Corden, where you said that you quite often sent him a message on WhatsApp and quickly deleted it just to make him more paranoid. Is that still going down? And do you do that to other well-known personalities? No, I don't do it to any other well-known personalities.

It's such a clever trick, though. Really mean, but really good. I think it depends what sort of phase me and James are in. Like, if we're in a kind of friendly, like, getting on brother and sister type of phase, then I will maybe delete the message, but then I'll tell him what the gist of the message was. Like, oh, sorry, I was going on about something, blah, blah, blah.

But if we're in a kind of like brother and sister really winding each other up sort of a phase, then I won't explain it a trillion. It's a good one, isn't it? It is a good technique. It is a really good technique. I think everyone listening has learned a thing or two in the last couple of seconds.

So you are rivals. No. You are. If you were rivals, wouldn't you have to be in the same ballpark? Do you know what I mean? You'd have to be... Well, you both wrote. No, but James doesn't write novels.

I don't present TV shows in America. What would you do if he did write a novel? Well, I'd be very impressed because I think he might get bored writing a novel, James, if I'm honest. I think he wouldn't want to... He makes fun of me writing novels because he'll sort of go,

oh, yeah, what's the sort of thing you'd write? The phone rings. She walks down the corridor to answer it. She picks it up and she hears the voice she cannot believe it chapter 23 listen i mean i have listened to your books and i've listened to that one too i don't think james knows what he's talking about can i offend him as well i mean i may as well get everybody in. Ruth, really lovely to see you. Love Untold is the name of this book.

And I'm really looking forward to the next one. So get a wiggle on. When is it coming out? Oh, gosh, that's a good question, to which I do not know the answer. But I will send you a copy the minute I finish it. Yes, so I get a free book. Ruth Jones, who is our guest this afternoon.

And obviously, we'll try and iron out the little difficulties with Michael Sheen and David Tennant and get them on the programme. When you're on holiday. When I'm on holiday, yeah. I admire them both as thespians but there was something about that. Genuinely

I meant it when I said insufferable. I just can't I couldn't bear it. Well I think probably it's David Tennant on Monday Michael Sheen on Tuesday, Jane MacDonald on Wednesday. I knew you were going to bring that up again. And actually, I've had a quite quiet couple of months where I haven't really annoyed anybody

or been offensive in any way. What I will say about... I'm going to try and make up ground here, listener. What I will say about David Tennant is that... Have you seen the BBC programme There She Goes? No, I haven't. OK, well, it's been a recent one-off special and it's about a couple.

Jessica Hines plays the mother and David Tennant the dad and it's about a couple who have a daughter with a chromosomal disorder. And honestly, he's brilliant, it's brilliant, it's funny, but it really makes you question what you're laughing at. So David is a fine actor. Excellent, because I know that we had a conversation about the fact that he was just too thin and bendy in Inside Man with Stanley Tucci. Yes, he is quite thin. Yep, and he is very bendy.

But you've obviously managed to leap over those two terrible, terrible attributes. Right. Can we just remind you of a date for your diary? Don't double book us. July the 27th is going to be our book club recording. So if you are with us and reading Fresh Water for Flowers by Valerie Parra, we would have completed the book by then. We would have collated all of your comments.

We'll have a great, big, lovely shindig of thoughtful consideration about the book and we hope to get the author on herself. So that's July the 27th. When you say shindig, what is actually planned? Nothing. We'll just read out lots of stuff and maybe we'll bring a pack of Rolos and share those.

So the carnival in Rio, it is not, but it will be. It'll be a lovely culmination of people's criticism and thought about a book that actually a lot of people are saying the same thing about already you open it think oh god and this is really for me and there's 500 pages to go but get about 50 pages in and you're in love with it and that's where I'm at at the moment I'm about 100 pages in I'm looking forward to going to bed every night to read it. Right, OK. That's my kind of an evening.

Yeah. OK, lovely. Looking forward to getting more into it, but I'm still with Catlin explaining men to me at the moment. Right, have a very good evening. If you are Scottish, enjoy... How can I phrase it? The coronation of a man who

is not necessarily your king but some people think he is. Yes. Absolutely. Is that diplomatic enough? No. Have a shortbread finger and think on it. We're bringing the shutters down on another episode of the internationally acclaimed podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover.

Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. But don't forget that you can get another two hours of us every Monday to Thursday afternoon here on Times Radio. We start at 3pm

and you can listen for free on your smart speaker. Just shout Play Times Radio at it. You can also get us on DAB Radio in the car or on the Times Radio app whilst you're out and about being extremely busy. And you can follow all our

tosh behind the mic and elsewhere on our Instagram account. Just go onto Insta and search for Jane and Fee and give us a follow. So in other words, we're everywhere aren't we, Jane? Pretty much. Everywhere. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. And get Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day.

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