Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Opening jars in a quiet corner of Only Fans (with Michaela Strachan)

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Jane and Fi's work outside the home is over for the week... They'll now be moving indoors... Before that, they chat nut balls, the downside to en-suites, carrot cake being the armpit of the cake world, and they demand justice for the bean burger. Plus, wildlife presenter Michaela Strachan discusses her upcoming tour 'Not Just A Wild Life'.Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute.Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Another Thursday. Another Thursday because we only work four-day week, Jade. Obviously, no, no, no, hang on a sec. Hang on a sec, that's wrong, isn't it? We work outside the home, as George W. Bush put it, when he was corrected for saying that women who didn't work. Do you remember that? An American woman rose up against him.

And actually, it was quite a clever phrase he came up with because it stuck because he got it right, actually, in calling it work outside the home. Is it him who came up with that? Yes, because didn't he make the cock-up where in one of his early campaigns, his first campaign, he said something about, you know, women who don't work. And, you know, the American mums rightly said, it is work, mate. It is work.

So I think I'm right in saying that he then coined the phrase, work outside the home. I will look that up to achieve truth, veracity, and I will check it against two religious. liable sources. And I would just like to say and a chatbot. And a chatbot. Yes, and a chatbot. Always now. That Jeannie, you didn't need to send an email

apologising for being annoyed with me about the night manager spoiler. You're a very, very lovely person. Yeah, no, the whole point of us is that you can be annoyed with us. Yes, you absolutely can. That's what we're there for. But it was very kind of you to say that because, and also you have changed my direction, very much like George W. Bush's direction

was changed by the American moms, because I won't make that mistake again. We're going to count to five if we're going to talk about anything and give away the ending, apart from Chateau DIY. And a place in the sun, because you all know the endings. No, they won't buy that property. We'll just count to one on those. It's not quite so significant.

Right, who is our guest today? Because it's a good guest. Our guest is Michaela Strachanwright. I just think she's a very interesting woman and one of the great television broadcaster. She just does telly in a very fluent and I think free-flowing kind of a way she's also very knowledgeable.

Well that's good, isn't it? That's very good, Jane. Well, because not, she doesn't, she's not one of those people wedded to the auto queue. When she does all those watch programs, spring watch, winter watch, autumn watch, and the other watch. Actually, there isn't another watch.

There's no summer watch. She's just someone who just talks in a way that's both informed and informative. Yeah, we could learn something from that, couldn't we? Oh, yeah, well, I think it's too late. And she's spent an awful lot of time in a hide with Bill Oddy, so we congratulate her for that too. And other men.

They're quite trapped, though, aren't they, in those hides? I wouldn't like that. Would you like that? No. No, you've been drawn to bird watching? I haven't, actually. I love bird song. I think it's gorgeous. And I thrill to the dawn chorus.

But no, watching them would be... It's too... It's very painstaking, isn't it? Well, it is, but I think very much like test match cricket, it's one of those things that I am going to take up later in life because it just takes up the time. It's an extraordinary amount of time, and I can go and do it on my own.

I'm just going to go and sit and hide by myself and wait for the greater spotted, nested, whatever it is. We did have a... Do you remember it was one of my favourite emails ever? We had a couple of years ago from a woman who'd been the child of a committed twitcher, and that had meant some extraordinary compromises made by the end. entire family. In terms of holidays. Holidays and turning back 150 miles into a 200-mile journey because a

certain bird had arrived in somebody else's back gone. I mean, I've never forgotten that. So to whoever that was, you're still giving me joy. Thank you. I've put a little nutball out on my window cell in my bedroom, Jane, because there's a pair of blue tits in the tree opposite and I wanted to bring them further. And this morning was the first time that one of them had come to the sill and just had a little peck and then gone off again but it is a really really properly magical thing isn't it so what they're quite wary to start with and then they begin

to trust the fat well I guess so what's in it well I don't know I mean it was it was one of the more expensive ones from I'm just going to give it a plug waitrose and I had to slice the bottom of it to kind of stick it down because obviously

it came as a ball and it's going on a sill and I didn't want it to fall off and hurt somebody down below it's quite a hefty Oh my God. Imagine being concussed by a... What happened here? Well, officer. A large fat ball just landed on my bed. Going about my business

when somebody's bloody fat ball landed on me bons. Yeah. But the funny thing will be, because the cats sit on the windowsill the other side, inside the house. They never go outside on the window cell. And I've put the fat ball out there because obviously the cats can't get to it. I don't want to put anything in the back garden because it'll be asking for trouble. But I wonder whether there might be a cat blue... boot it standoff one day, which would be well worth seeing, wouldn't it?

You could put that on the socials. Certainly, you've instantly thought there's money to be made in this. Absolutely. I'm a wheeler dealer. Well done you. You're in my sheepskin coat. Well, that's the other thing, isn't it, that's coming our way to support us in our third age. It will be a little part of only fans dedicated to opening jars.

Ripping off small shampoo sachets. There'll be somebody... Somebody somewhere who'll be turned on by that. Well, monetise it. Go on. Can we briefly? Because I think she's raised an interesting point, bring in a listener. We don't need to mention her name.

On this occasion, I would ask you not to share my name. Well, I'm not going to. After many years of dieting, I've lost four stone three times and two stone many more times. I took the leap and decided to try the jabs, and I'm embarrassed about it. I'm in my early 50s.

I've always been into keeping fit, so do all the right things like strength training and Pilates. I also eat very healthily. Thank you for that. I think the point you're making is you want us to, I think, and I could be wrong, so you can correct us. We have correction corners so many times, that you're asking us to discuss whether or not you should be embarrassed.

Of course you shouldn't be embarrassed. You do what you feel like doing. If those jabs are working for you, then you keep right at it. If it's making you feel happier and better, then I'd be the last part. I wouldn't pass judgment at all. No, I feel sorry for people who are doing the very, very hard grunt of a very long, slow diet these days

because I think people rush to a form of judgment about being on the pen. And maybe you're not doing that. And maybe that feels a bit harder. I don't know. Perhaps possibly. But you just got to do what works for you. And if you are overweight and you're not happy, then you do whatever it takes to become more content. Totally.

And if you've had that yo-yo in your weight, I think that's so, so difficult. So yes, I completely agree. Do you think that if the jabs are going to turn into pills, aren't they quite soon? Are they? I don't know that. And eventually they will come down in price because all of the patents will change and all that kind of stuff. So when that happens, would you consider, and especially if they slightly morph into weight loss, pills that you can maybe take a smaller dose of if you're trying to lose a smaller amount of weight, if it becomes very tailored, would you ever use them?

Oh, I would imagine. If I felt that my weight was making me unhealthy, threatening my overall health, and making me feel less content, then absolutely I would. So I suppose I'm asking you whether you would take them if those weren't the reasons. No, I wouldn't. Because surely there is a possibility that they become almost like. like a supplement. People treat them in that kind of way.

No, I think I'll just stick to taking vitamin D. Okay. Yeah, that's good to know. It's a very personal thing, isn't it? Well, it is, but also I think all of this morality around the new inventions is interesting because you can resist them initially and think, oh my goodness, and feel flustered because they've arrived in the world. And actually these things seem to then get taken on borders,

pretty mundane and normal soon, sooner than they used to be. Does that make sense? Presumably people were very quick to judge when the contraceptive pill first arrived. Do you think people, I mean, we don't know, but do you think people did say, oh, well, I think they did. Well, I think they did. It meant that if a woman went on it, she was very fast. She was, she was. She was traveling with the expectation of a lack of chastity, Jane. Don't get on board that train. No, don't worry, I really haven't. So you and I will never have experienced that sense of relief.

I think that's just, you know, for that whole generation of women to suddenly be given the opportunity to have sex more on their terms, I think. We will never have a pharmaceutical intervention like that again, will we? Probably not, until they come up with a way of giving you a tablet that ensures that you're only fertile when you want to be. Yes. or a tablet that means you can sleep when you want to

and wait when you want to, which has eluded the medical profession. It's weird though, isn't it? Because you would have thought, I mean, it's just something so universal, it's so problematic for so many people. Millions must have been spent. Billions must have been spent on researching

whatever it is that means that you could provide a sleep pill that didn't have drowsy side effects the next day. And also, who were those people, and does it still exist, who volunteered for that, Common Cold Research Centre where you could go to try and find a cure for the common cold

they still haven't found one have they but you could volunteer and you were paid Well they're still available Jane Oh they can still go to those places? No you can still go to those places And do you know what we should do a story about is actually clinical trials are fascinating

Not talked about enough part of our world aren't they And I know that more and more students signing up to them than ever before they are advertised around campuses, obviously the algorithm can start targeting people who need to be making a bit of extra money and the clinical trials often want people

who are quite young, got young bodies. And I mean, I fully understand that you do need to test pharmaceuticals on humans. I don't want that to be me or my family. No, I'd rather not, on the whole. No, but that's so hypocritical, isn't it? Of course it is. Have you been on a clinic?

trial. Oh, I'd be really interested. Have you done that common cold trial? How much did you get paid? We'd love to know. Did you mention hypocrisy there? Well, we alluded to it, didn't we? And this has been quite the week for that sort of thing. This is from Laura, first time emailer,

no jingle. Like many of us, I've been following the rolling coverage of the release of the Epstein Files with a mixture of fascination and horror. At the start of this week, I went down the Mandelson rabbit hole, staggered at the audacity and arrogance of this man and his absolute lack of contrition. Yes, if you want more on this, I suggest you have a look

at the Times Magazine over the course of this weekend. It's coming out in your Saturday Times bundle, but it'll be online, I suspect. It already has been the Katie Ball's interview. It's absolutely fascinating. But anyway, after I got really angry, says Laura, I took a step back, prompted by some of your recent comments about insisting on calling Epstein a paedophile rather than a so-called disgraced financier. I found some of the language on mainstream news networks describing the situation surrounding Sarah Ferguson and Mandelson, embarrassing beyond understatement. Embarrassing is getting to work and realizing halfway through the day that your top is inside out, not being in the pocket and inner circle of a sex offender. I then started to feel uncomfortable at my own fixation on the outcomes

for these people as though they or their colleagues were the victims here, rather than the girls and their families who will never get over the systematic abuse they suffered. This morning I read a brilliant article by the ever-incredible Marina Hyde. It's called Never Forget Epstein's Little Helpers, The Powerful Men Who Knew About His Crimes and Helped Him Out Anyway, in The Guardian. She captured my own thoughts brilliantly and communicated it with more skill and anger than I could hope to, and I would urge you and your listeners to have a read as well. It is absolutely excellent.

I would also just say that Helen Rumbullo in The Times this week wrote an incredibly powerful piece too. It was almost unbearable that piece to read. But how significant is it do you think that some of the most powerful, angry writing on this is just being done by women? And I say just. I mean, we need these big gobbed male columnists to take this up. Yeah. So I object to it so much, Jane. I mean, I really, really, really do. And like you, I would advise anybody to read Helen Rumblow's piece. I think what frustrates me hugely, Helen details in that. some of the stuff that she's found by going through the Epstein files. And it is detail about the way that the powerful men talk about women,

about some of the things that they've done with women, about how disposable in their eyes these women are. And it is beyond distressing to read. And I really feel for any journalist who is going through the Epstein files trying to find that, but I would question why more male journalists aren't. and I completely agree with you I think it is just appalling if men think that

that side of the Epstein scandal has nothing to do with them it does it could be your daughter it may have been your wife it might have been your girlfriend and you know as we've been saying you know certainly I've found myself saying it for the last 20 years it is easier to call out male behaviour

if you're a man you're closer to it you've got the language, the bloke won't switch off because it's just a woman whining at you, and you must want it to change. You cannot possibly want those things to be happening to women. So you'd think, but also it does frustrate me that on the news, you know, we have become obsessed with the downfall of some powerful men. Some of the testimony in the Epstein files that are detailed by people like Marina Hyde and Helen Rumbullo that you and I have talked about on our afternoon program,

that should be the lead story. These are criminal acts. They're very, very young women. Usually the press likes to indulge in salacious news and titillating news. I don't really understand why that's not happening in this instance. And as we've said before, there is only one person in jail for these crimes. She's a woman. I mean, what's going on? Well, it's the usual patriarchal bucket of old shite, I'm afraid. I hate to be so bleak about this. But that's why reading Helen's were so disturbing because you're right the exchanges between these people it's the language they use about women they're so dismissive and it was

oh god I can't remember how on earth could I forgot Germain Greer how could I forgot that name who said that women don't really understand how much some men hate them and I think that's it's so obvious in those exchanges that she's exactly right yeah but there are also a lot of female journalists and female editors

who are equally obsessed with a downfall of powerful men. They're the ones making the decisions too. That's what they want to talk about. So we've just all got to grow up a bit and I think you've just got to go and read some stuff that is really, really unpleasant. I understand why people don't want to. But it's a bit like all the Andrew Tate stuff. Those people have these massive opinions about Andrew Tate, but they wouldn't go and watch his stuff. Go and watch it and then it just will help you be better informed. And of course we care about what happens in our country with state secrets. and with a man who was just, well, he wasn't giving them away, was he?

Money was coming back into Peter Mandelson's coffers. And of course, for his husband's osteopathy course. Yes. We've all done it for him. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm sure that Peter Mandelson will be grateful for his husband being able to cure his bad back and all of the other bits of him that might be starting to hurt. But yeah, we've got to balance out this story. It seems really, really bonkers how imbalanced it is at the moment.

Yeah. It is generally the way that violence against women and girls is a problem that's obviously, often, not obviously, but often left to women and girls to solve. And sorry, we can't. So the men do have to start writing about it, certainly start talking about it. And actually, we should say that tomorrow, as a bonus off air, we're putting out an interview that you did yesterday. Should we talk about that?

Because that's Vicki Ward, isn't it? So Vicki Ward is an astonishing journalist, and she wrote a profile piece on Jeffrey Epstein back in 2003 for Vanity Fair. In that piece, she wanted to include testimony of two women who had come forward to say that Epstein had abused them. And Epstein went to the offices of Vanity Fair

and managed to get the editor to take out that bit of the piece. And Vicki's story is just superb, so she has followed Epstein for over 20 years. She has also kept in touch with many of his victims and she is absolutely blindingly good on why it's so important to talk about what happened to the women. Do you know what? And then we should move on

because I know that people come to this for a bit of light relief as well as thoughts about big things in the world. I do not want to see another man say, we must remember the victims and then move on to something else. You have got to find, if you're on a public stage, Prince Edward was the latest person to say that, think of something else that is more informative than that.

Just saying we must remember the victims, it's not enough. Well, that felt to me like he'd been told, if anybody asked, this is what you say. But there are lots of people saying that. Kier Stama is starting his defensive speeches by saying we must always remember the victims. Well, say something more important, because the victims need you to be saying something more important. whether that's about the lack of accountability in the US justice system,

whether that's about more people needing to know the detail of what happened to them. You're on a platform. Say something more than that. It's just not enough to say that. No, I did hear on our friend Ian Dale's program last night, which I listened to in the bath. And he was talking, he had a phone in after 9 o'clock, it was quite a late night for me, about whether this really does threaten the monarchy seriously. And one of his guests was Robert Hardman. Right.

It was interesting. Robert was saying that it's obviously incredibly difficult for them. I'm surprised that people aren't angrier about the royal family and about why we're not having a serious conversation about maybe this is the time we start to seriously think about ending it. I think that's in the same pile of the wind blowing the wrong way. I mean it is an important part, but it's just not what this story is. Well, what is also deeply troubling to me is that the US has barely scraped the surface of this. I know, so there are just so many other avenues. But yeah, but let's let Britain be,

let Britain be an exemplar. We have brought down, Andrew. Frankly, it looks like the Prime Minister might also be on his way. But in America, Donald Trump, who's mentioned more times than anybody in that latest dump of files, sales on. Unbelievable. Yeah. Anyway, your thoughts. I just also don't want to spend weeks and weeks and weeks talking about that over-privileged Pratt's demise. The one detail that I loved in all of the papers, some of the papers, most of the papers today, was that the staff on the Norfolk estate have been given permission to not serve him.

I don't get it. Why does he need serving? Stick a ready meal in the microwave. Just get a job, mate. I mean, literally, just get a job. Be out on your ass and see whether or not you pass a CRB check. Well, he wouldn't. Nope. And whether or not anybody would give you a job.

End of, and then let's talk about what happens to women. why women end up in such vulnerable positions that they feel that that is a choice that they have to make in their lives and also let's talk about and take apart some of the people who say, well, I mean some of these women were 19, 20 years old, so it's totally fine.

Well, really? Are you sure about that, mate? And would your 19-year-old daughter have made that decision? It does remind me of conversations that we had quite a few times on Women's Hour about whether sex work could ever be a positive choice. And I can now say what I couldn't at the time express an opinion, but I would wager that you do not consider sex work an option

unless you are somewhat damaged individual through no fault of your own. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you grew up in poverty, abject or otherwise. It may simply have been that something went on in your life, probably in your childhood, that made you regard that as something that, you might consider doing. I agree with that.

And I might not be, this is just my belief, and I know I can be challenged on that. But also, I think that there is very clear evidence that for an awful lot of women who have done sex workers, younger women, if they have then turned away from it, it has become something that is problematic for them. We all know that decisions that we make

when we're 17, 18, 19 years old, you know, whether that's about the boyfriend or girlfriend that we choose to be with, what we choose to put up with in a relationship, what we've put up with at home, all of those kind of things. You are allowed as an older person to look back and wonder about that. And the huge difficulty that so many women say is that when you have those things in your memory bank, the rest of your life is cloudy.

You haven't really been able to walk away from that. You don't get closure. You can't finish with a boyfriend or girlfriend. You know, you can't leave a controlling relationship. It hasn't been within your power to correct that part of your life. And this isn't me talking. This is me having interviewed women who say exactly this. So it becomes something so buried that you can't deal with it.

And that makes it even worse. So those are the conversations that I would love to be having at the moment. I just don't want to spend too much more time talking about Peter Mandelson and Prince Andrew. I mean, they will fall and it's a good thing. Absolutely, I'm with you. It's a good thing that we show in this country. we're not going to put up with that kind of behaviour. But I do think that now is an opportunity to really better understand

what that nasty, nasty world of powerful men paying for sex does and has done to so many people better understand it. And maybe there'll be a young woman listening who is on the verge of having to do something like that or thinking that's a good choice, who will benefit from us talking about this openly. Well, let's hope so. I mean, you never know.

But, I mean, this is such a, it's been such a depressing week in lots of ways. Oh, John, so depressing. At least we are able to have these conversations. And we'd be the first to admit that we're rarely 100% right about anything. So we really welcome your involvement. And we can certainly bring you in via your emails next week on this. So do keep them coming in. Fees right, I know people don't come here necessarily for, you know, dead serious chat.

But we couldn't not speak about it this week. No, it's really important. Let's not miss the moment either, because it is important. So, anyway, it's Jane and Fee at times.orgia. We're back with Beanburgers. Here comes Lena. Hello, both. Change of mood.

We need music, don't we for this? Perhaps I could sing again. Go on. This is me. There we go. I've still got it. I couldn't agree more with your views on Beanburgers, says Lina. Why are so many now turning to fake.

meat, which is what I've found. They're nowhere near as good as burgers made with beans, lentils and other veg if they're well-seasoned, also more natural. As a vegetarian, I do miss a really good veggie or bean burger. I think it must be that they're trying to please meat eaters with something that's more like meat and texture, but are most likely failing, both carnivores and vegetarians when it comes to taste. I think you're spot on, Lena, and the campaign for the return to the spicy bean burger, it starts here. Yes, come on everybody, get behind it. I don't want your chewy vegan mushrooming you I've kind of

I've grown very fond of the mushroom Sarah's in Cheltenham myself and a friend went to our Everyman Silver Screen in Cheltenham today at lunchtime to see H is for hawk It was a lovely watch beautifully shot Claire Foy was superb and as for the hawks

I've been several times Sir Sarah on my own or with a friend and it's a lovely experience you've got comfortable sofas little lights by each table very art deco she says and tea or coffee, and either carrot cake or chocolate brownie included and delivered to your seat before the film starts. Fee, it's over 55s.

That'd be lovely. That'd be great, we could go together. Wonderful. Why don't we? Well, let's be lovely. My next time we're in Cheltenham and we probably will be in the autumn. Why not? I do love Cheltenham.

I do too. I'm absolutely baffled by why anyone would choose carrot cake over a chocolate brownie. Why would you do that? I really don't. I think the carrot cake is the armpit of the cake world. I love a carrot cake. Oh, well, there you go. Especially if it's been made with really, really dark kind of syrup or maple syrup or something. I find it lovely with a lovely fresh, kind of cream, fresh, sour cream topping.

Everything about that is disgusting. Sarah says it always feels a little bit naughty sitting in the dark in the middle of the day, watching a film. And I feel guilty, but then why should I? I'm 70, I'm now retired. but busy enough still to have and to have a couple of hours enjoying a good film with delicious carrot cake. She chose the carrot cake is my reward for working hard, raising a family, caring for grandchildren when called upon.

So I really must stop feeling guilty. Sarah, you do not need to feel guilty. You absolutely are right. You have earned your time in the dark in Cheltenham with your carrot cake and a great film. I think it sounds magical. Yeah, don't let the guilt spoil that at all, at all. We are back in Cheltenham, aren't we?

October this year. Book your tickets now. The website's even open. We have exciting news about our live tour towards the end of this year as well, but we'll just keep you on tenter hooks for that one too. This one comes in from Carla who often emails and don't think that you've, if you've emailed him before, you can't email again because we're keeping tabs on who emails because it's just not our eve.

We haven't got a clue. But I know that Carla is a very regular listener and says, Hello, both, I have to carry a tiny pair of scissors to open stuff like sauce and vinegar. Twice now my tiny scissors have been confiscated at customs. You can't carry this weapon on a plane. Nearly as bad as them trying to steal my HRT. What?

That can't be allowed. Was it a patch? Why would they want to take that? God, I wouldn't put anything past them. I really wouldn't. I tell you what, it will have come to a pretty pass where the similarity between lots of, of patches of HRT and Semtex is a reason to take the HRT off you on a plane.

I'm also a naked glasses wearer fee and that big plastic pliers thing for jars is pretty good as is my electric can opener and my daughter bought me this piece of wood, a picture attached. I was puzzled by this but it obviously does the business. It's a very, very good idea. So it's a straight piece of wood that has just got a kind of, what would you call it? call that at the top. A groove? A big groove taken out of it. It looks like a bourbon bickie but it's actually a hot water bottle opener and scoff as I did when she gave it to me it works. So you're putting that groove bit on top of the very very tightly screwed on

lid thing. Yeah. And you're right because you don't have enough purchase because the top of the lid is tiny. I love the term purchase. So that is a fantastic idea that just gives you a wider thing to be able to twist off. That's great. There's something quite sexy about... I couldn't get any purchase or something. I just couldn't get any purchase. Do you know what? I thought there's something quite sexy about describing, being described as, and Carla describing

herself as a naked glasses wearer. Yes. I do love this. People really short-sighted. One of my dearest friends, I was with her last weekend at the Singathon. And she's minus 8 in one of her eyes. Oh, my. Miley. So I can't walk down the stairs in my house without my glasses on

because we've got a stripy carpet and it's slightly kind of woozes at me. Right. So even in the middle of the night, I don't have an unsweet bathroom. I don't understand unsweet bathrooms at all. What do you mean? You don't understand.

I don't understand. I'd love to have one. Why anybody would want to hear the sound of a latent life love interest taking a whistle. Oh no, God, completely. In the middle of the night. Yes, I see what you mean. Yeah.

I just don't. Or, you know, vice versa. and, you know, the morning ablutions. Don't want to know. Oh, God, I actually know you're right. I mean, so the plain fact is you'd want someone to go to another area to do that business. Preferably a lavatory facility, not just the sitting room. Just the corner of you.

Behind the curtains. I've come over all ham-knit. Filthy. So, no, I have to put my glasses on for everything, Jane. It's just dangerous not to have them on. Right. And I mean everything. You've got to check you with the right,

late-life love interest. I mean, it's very sensible. I mean, take precautions. Another Sarah says, your chat about the awkwardness for older people of getting into packaging reminded me of a visit. My then-boyfriend, now husband, Dan, and I, paid to my granny many years ago.

We were mid-cup of tea when she announced seriously that she'd been storing up a manly task for Dan to take on when we came round. Very sensible. Assuming that power tools were likely to be involved, Dan, an excellent lawyer, but not actually a natural handyman, did look a bit anxious until it became clear that the task in question was to go into Granny's fridge and remove the little silver seals underneath the screw tops of each of the milk cartons in her fridge.

Very, very sensible woman, your granny, and I'm glad that Dan was able to rise to the task. But you can imagine the man sitting there in terror thinking, oh God, if I'm going to be asked to put up a shelf and I'm just not going to be able to do it, because how many modern men do know how to do that kind of thing? Put up the shelves? I don't know, it's a good question. I mean, it used to be, without question, that the man of the household,

if you had one in heteronormative circumstances, would undertake those sort of tasks. I never questioned my dad doing what you might call light DIY because I just assumed he must have acquired the skills necessary. But why you would or how he did, I don't know. Yeah, it's true. mom used to make a great big long list of things for dad to do when he came back because he wasn't living with us in the same continent.

So the list was very long and he would just disappear. With his tool bag and his wood saw. Never to be seen again. Never to be seen again. But yeah, no, suddenly we got airing cupboards and occasionally we get little wooden toys, all kinds of things. But it definitely, until really, really recently, Jane, it would be the case in a mixed school where the boys trotted off to do

woodwork and the girls trotted off to do craft or seamstressness or all of that type of stuff. And the loaves of be really good with the sewing machine. Let's give them a chance. I mean double, we actually have double needlework on a Monday morning. I would so, hated it. So much rather have been given the opportunity to do a little bit of work with a vice and a clamp. No, honestly, so would I. I think carpentry, what a wonderful skill that is. I mean, it must be so satisfying. Well, why don't you take that up later in life? That's it. I'm off. I'm going to a carpentry.

workshop. You will never hear my voice again. Thank God, says everybody. No, but it would be a lovely thing for you to do, wouldn't it? You could start mending things in your own home. You'll be able to watch a lot of people on YouTube. I've said people there, but you'll be able to watch a lot of men in overalls on YouTube and get away with it. So I'd say find an evening class soon. Book yourself in. Thank you very much. I think you're sincere. I can't tell. Camilla says hearing Jane mentioned E45 and Fee talking about her sister using conditioner on her face by mistake reminded me of a lovely story about my mum. She had a sunspot removed from her cheek

and afterwards the doctor recommended she used a good moisturiser on her face. Oh I do, she said I apply WD40 twice a day. She meant E45, not the well-known engine lubricant that you put on spark plugs and rusty hinges. But who knows? Maybe WD40 would have worked just as well. I mean, we're not going to recommend it because we're not sure. But it's true. It's all the same bucket of gloop when it comes down to it, isn't it?

Oh dear. Right, should we have a little bit of nature in the company of our delightful guest? Here comes Michaela Stracken. Owls, elephants, sharks, Pete Waterman. Michaela Stracken has documented them all across her career spanning 40 years now. She's made some spectacular turns along the way, replacing big beats of music. Her co-host on The Hitman and her was the aforementioned Waterman. Michaela herself had two pop singles.

She's an alumni of the Wide Awake Club, but it is the call of the wilds that got to her, and we know her best now for her work on wildlife films and shows, notably spring, autumn and winter watch. She's gone to ground, though. We can't quite get hold of her in the right hide at the moment. So we'll do a tiny bit of chatting. Jane has got news of vermin that are coming to this country. They're breaking through our borders, and they're not welcome. What are they, the glis-glis-glis? Yeah, I think that's how you pronounce them.

I was hoping to ping a question to Michaela about these critters. The sun has rather breathlessly reported this week that these creatures have been terrorising areas of Britain with an estimated 30,000 roaming Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire. So they favour counties beginning with a bee and as the sun points out they might look cute, but they're anything but. And some people have said they're absolutely monstrous.

They do look similar to dormice. They're sort of grey, furry. and they've got a bushy tail. They actually also go by the name edible dormice. Several of them were first brought over to Britain from Italy by the zoologist, the noted zoologist actually, Lionel Walter Rothschild. And they were added to the family's natural collection of animals

at Tring Park in Hertfordshire. But then, six of them, Fee, they escaped. And you know what they did when they escaped? Well, they probably had fun. Yeah, they went on to breed. They did, didn't they? They went Al fresco. Yeah. And it's just they're annoying. They are really annoying. And I wonder if Michaela has a line on the glist glist, but we can find out.

Well, hopefully we have managed to make the connection, which would make that question possible. Have we managed that? Hello. Oh, thank goodness you're there. Jane has just done some very, very stalwart filling over the last couple of minutes. It wasn't very good. No, it was fascinating. I could hear it. I could hear it. Yeah. I thought interesting. I could hear it because I think they were having trouble because I was sounding like I was really in a hide. I mean, I'm not. I'm in an office, but it was sounding very echoy. So I'm now on the telephone talking to you, but you can see me on the Zoom. Okay.

Well, we've made the connection, and that's all that matters. And it is quite ironic, isn't it? Because you are one of our guests who we could call and you would be somewhere far, far flung in the world. But yeah, you're in a cupboard now. Now, you've just come out of doing Winter Watch. These are glorious programs that you do, aren't they? They are telling us stuff about. our natural world, all of the lovely creatures we walk past or drive past.

The big question is always, spring watch, autumn watch, winter watch, why no summer watch? Well, we don't even have autumn watch anymore now. So we've got spring watch and winter watch. Summer watch, do you know, spring is always late, people always say to us with spring watch, why is it so late, it feels like it's summer already. It's all to do with the other outside broadcast that are on. So you've got the Chelsea Flower Show and we have to, to come after the Chelsea Flower Show because they use all the outside broadcast vehicles. That's one of the reasons. But the other reason is, obviously on Springwatch, we follow the stories of birds in nests.

You want to see the birds fled. You don't want to be watching eggs. So if you were earlier, you'd just be watching, you know, eggs that don't move. So that's another reason why Springwatch is quite late. So Springwatch sort of bleeds into summer a little bit. So Summer Watch would just be a few weeks later. So not much point in doing a Summer Watch. Although it would be good.

Yeah. I think we should definitely campaign to get Autumn Watch back and Summer Watch as a new thing. Yes. We will start that campaign. We will start that campaign for just more Michaela Strachan commentating. Not more than me, more British wildlife. On wildlife. And what should we look out for in winter in this country that can really connect us to our natural world?

Oh, I think at this time of the year, you know, I was walking for the train just yesterday. And it was early morning. I was getting an early train and it's just the sound of the birds, isn't it? I mean, I think it lets you know that spring is on its way because you get that dawn chorus and it's just so glorious to listen to it. I think if anybody wanted to really immerse themselves in wildlife at this time of the year, get up early, you know, put some warm clothes on. There are all sorts of dawn chorus walks you can go on.

So go on that, go with the experts, listen to the birds and just, you know, as I say, wrap yourself up warm, put some waterproofs on. And that would be my recommendation. Or go and find a Starling murmuration. You know, look up where you can see a Starling murmuration because that, if you've never seen one before, then that's what I would say should be top of your list to tick off before the end of this winter. Where do you think our national relationship with nature is at the moment? Oh, that's a tricky one, isn't it? Because I think there are a lot of people that are very connected to wildlife. And the great thing is with algorithms on your social media these days, if you've looked at stuff that is anything about conservation and sustainability and wildlife, then you'll get more

and more of it on your social media. So anyone that's interested ends up being pretty well educated, actually. So I think that there's a lot of people that are very connected, and then there's a lot of people that are totally and utterly disconnected, couldn't care less about nature and wildlife, you know, probably have never been on a walk in the countryside, have never picked up a pair of binoculars, have never even taken notice of any of the birds. So I think it's that audience that it would be great to reconnect with because I think as a child, you're always interested in wildlife. It fascinates children. And then somewhere along the line, particularly with social media and with screens these days, that connection goes and you become disconnected.

And I think that's why so many people are struggling. You know, there's so much mental health issues because, you know, we're disconnected from what we should naturally be connected to, which is wildlife in the natural world. Sure. I mean, there is a political tone at the moment as well, Michaela, isn't that that says nature stands in the way of progress? I mean, it just makes me sigh. It makes me want to put my head in my hands, but I'm holding the phone, so I can't do that right now. So, I mean, that is incredibly sad, isn't it? That that is what people are thinking. And, you know, what's the point of progress if we haven't got a natural world to progress in? You know, what's the point of progress if we have no clean air to breathe?

What's the point of progress if we don't have water to drink? You know, it's basic stuff. You have to have the natural world for humans to be able to survive and to thrive. You know, we're going to be in a very, very miserable. world if we don't look after our natural resources, if we don't have clean water, if we don't have clean air, you know, if we're so polluted that we have to wear masks or, you know, have to pay for the air we breathe because it's so polluted, we can't breathe it anymore. So, you know, these are realities. It may sound stompin, but it's realities. So I think if politicians really

thought about that, then, you know, it would become top of the agenda. And we shouldn't get too caught up on swift bricks. That was a recent one, wasn't it? People thought that it would be slowing down the building of new houses if this policy of putting a swift brick in every house were to be adhered to. But my understanding of the swift brick is it's literally a brick that has some holes in it so the swift can go in. It's not complicated, that one, is it? It's not complicated. And I think that's the thing. Everybody has an agenda, don't they? And I think if people stood back in just looked at why they're fighting for that agenda, they'd realize how ludicrous it was. I call it the absurdity of humanity. And there's so much of what we do and so many things that people

argue and fight about that, as I said, he took a step back and looked at it from a distance, you think that's absurd. That's utterly absurd that we're arguing about whether to put a brick in with a few holes in that might help a few swifts. I mean, why not? Why wouldn't you do that? It's helping swifts. It's helping swallows. Why wouldn't you do that? You know, it's not going to make any difference to anybody, except you've got to find a brick, you know, that does that for its purpose. So, yeah, I think people have agendas and it would be good to realize that you're arguing it because it's your agenda rather than looking at the bigger picture and realizing that actually it's a simple solution to a problem. When is the moment when you have been most

overawed by nature? Do you know, I think when probably when I went to the Antarctic, I was very lucky on the really wild show many, many years ago to do an expedition to the Antarctic. And what I absolutely love about the Antarctic is that nobody owns it. You know, I mean, what other piece of land does nobody actually own? And there's no, there's no government for Antarctica. You know, it's, I just think it's an incredible place. No one's, no one's from Antarctica. Who can put on their passport? Where are you from? Antarctica? I mean, I don't, I'm, I stand to be corrected, but I don't know if any babies were actually born on the Antarctic continent. So I presume there's nobody from Antarctica. Maybe there's one or two, who knows? So let your listeners phone in

and correct me on that one. And it's just a stunning wilderness. And there's very, very few real wildernesses left. And I think Antarctica is one of them. And it's just spectacular. Obviously, it's changing dramatically, but when I went, it was just a spectacular place to be with fantastic wildlife. And what is the most extraordinary creature that you've been in the presence of? Oh, that's ever such a hard one without thinking of it. I'm a big shark fan. So I actually think the smallest stuff, the tiny little creatures that we know very little about are usually the more fascinating.

But I think if we're talking about experiences, that, you know, the most incredible, awesome experience. I've had. It's probably being with sharks. I have a huge amount of respect for sharks. Obviously, a lot of people fear them. I don't have a fear of sharks. I have a respect, and that's a very different way of looking at it. You know, I know that sharks have sharp teeth, and if you get in the wrong place, then there could be an accident there. So I've dived many times with sharks, and I've done the cage diving. People have very different opinions about whether that's a good thing to do or a bad thing to do, but I did it many years ago. And to be in a cage and be able to view a shark, a white shark in the ocean doing its thing and being a top predator. And it's

evolved over millions of years to be that killing machine was really an incredible thing to do. Okay, rather you than me on that one. Come on. It's on your bucket list. No, that's what you're there for. We always like to anthropomorphise our animals, don't we? I think it's a really, really British thing to do as well. But shall we have a go at animalising you if it's possible to turn the tables? So if I were to think Michaela Strach and what kind of animal is she, I would say that you're a very inquisitive mere cat, popping up above a sand dune, sniffing the breeze.

Would that be about right? I like that a lot. I actually love meerkats and you're right. It's sort of pop your head out, have a little look around, scurry around a bit. Because I've got quite a lot of energy like a little me. You have, haven't you? I mean, I would say boundless energy. You're also one of those extraordinary women who you just don't seem to be aging at all. We've got the pleasure of being able to see you. And I think actually we're available now on our YouTube channel so anybody can see this. But you don't really look very different, Michaela. What are you on? It's not higher a lot of acid, is it? What does that say about the natural world? Get yourself out in some of the natural world and it does you the world of good. You know, the healing power of nature to me is a very real thing. And so I think I spend a lot of time outdoors. My happy place is hiking in the mountain.

And I think it keeps you young and to keep that. And also positive attitude, definitely that keeps you young. negativity is definitely you know well I was going to say negativity is a negative but but it is negativity doesn't do any of us any good and fear doesn't do us any good and I think the trouble is with so much bad news around us it can be very easy to slip into that negative fearful mindset and it's really important to keep that glass half full if not full which is which gets harder and harder as the years go by but you know I work hard at it.

Yeah. There is stuff out there, as you've alluded to, to be fearful about and just to slightly be disappointed about as well. And I think one of those for me is the AI slop around nature, where I cannot tell anymore whether, you know, the cats who are doing funny things on Instagram have been created by teenagers or by bots or whether they are actually doing magical things. And actually it's kind of okay for me because I'm, you know, in my late 50s. But I think actually for young ones, if their first experience of watching animals is so distorted,

they're just going to never really be able to come back from that. Would you agree? I think anyone who is watching cats do stupid things on Instagram needs to have a little check of themselves. What do you say? Goodness me, Michaela. That's both of us busted. It's my go-to happy place cats. drive cars, you know, I'll sit and watch it. I bet you've seen the one where the cat jumps up on the, on the light, on the lampshade

and spins around. Yes, I have. What's wrong with that? I mean, that is what's hilarious, isn't it? Algorithms make me laugh so much. Ever since I did dancing on ice, obviously I was watching ice skating during dancing on ice, and now that's all I get is ice skating videos. But you know what?

I'd rather than them cats, and I'd rather than them lots of depression. pressing news sometimes. But yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. Who knows where AI is taking us? And it is so difficult to know what's real. And, you know, I get sent a lot of things from Africa where suddenly, you know, the buffalo is throwing the lion up in the air and catching it in its teeth and doing a somersault.

And you know, some people are going, wow, isn't that amazing? And you're going, oh, my God, that's completely absurd. Of course that's AI. So, or you get a vulture that will suddenly be flying off with, with zebra. You know, good God, people believe this stuff. But, you know, if it's less absurd, of course, it's very difficult to know whether it's real or whether it's AI. So goodness knows how we're going to navigate the future with all that going on. Caroline.

That's not for me to answer because I'm, you know, I think you need to study that for many, many years and have a PhD in it to be able to actually come up with an answer to that question. You seem eminently qualified to me. Don't worry about it. Caroline says, she's WhatsApp to say, I can't be the first person person to let you. know that 11 people have apparently been born on Antarctica. It does appear to be true, actually. Apparently, the first was a young man called Emilio Marcos Palmer, who was born back in 1978. The births, primarily in the 70s and 80s were orchestrated, AI tells me, by Argentina and Chile to support territorial claims, with no births occurring on the continent for several decades. Oh, that's really interesting. You know, I'm really glad that I've made that. I made that. I'm

I did wonder actually whether I would be corrected, and I'm glad I have been, because that's really interesting, isn't there? Well, we're a two-way street here, very much, courtesy of our lovely listeners. Tell us a little bit about the stage show, what people can expect when they come and see you, because you are on tour, aren't you? I'm going on tour. It starts on April the 13th finishes on the 31st. It's called Not Just a Wildlife, because my life hasn't just been a wildlife. And although wildlife has certainly dominated the latter half of my career, it's been an interesting journey to get to that place. And, you know, I started on Saturday morning, children's magazine show called the Wideweight

Club. I then did a late-night music show called The Hitman and Her. I mean, who would have thought that the presenter of that would end up presenting a flagship program on the BBC about British wildlife? So it's been an interesting journey into where I am now, an interesting path. And so I decided to, I'm 60 in a two months time, and I've done 40 years in television. I thought, let's do a show that celebrates that 40 years and takes people on a real trip down memory lane. I mean, I've grown up and grown older on television, and I really hope that people will come and watch the show that have grown up and grown older with me.

And we'll be able to reminisce and go down that memory lane with me and look at old programs and talk about stuff that used to happen in the 80s and 90s. and then bring it up to date with the stuff that I'm doing these days on Springwatch and the sort of things I'm doing with wildlife. So, yeah, it's taking people on a real journey through time in using the frame of my career, I guess. So basically, come along and feel old with Michaela Strackle. I can't believe you're nearly 60, by the way. It is astonishing.

It is astonishing. Yeah, both Jane and I agree. Honestly, you look exactly the same as you did. when I first came across you, which was on the hitman and her, and you're absolutely right, I wouldn't have predicted that we'd be talking about nature all of these years further down the line. And as for Pete Mortimer, I mean, what happened to him?

Michaela, it's absolutely lovely to talk to you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us this afternoon from your cupboard. Your telephone signal was really very good indeed, and the tour starts in April. Michaela Stracken, and she is on tour, if you just type Michaela Stracken, actually, into any well-known search engine, all of the dates and the ticket availability

will come up. Indeed. Right. The weather forecast for the next, is it month? It's just wet, dank, terrible. So, well that's cheered you all up after what has been a mixed bag of a podcast veering from the very serious and important to the slightly

more trivial. But we've enjoyed it. We hope you have to and please feel incredibly free to take part. I mean, you've got time over the course of the weekend. Do listen to Friday's bonus off-air with Fee talking to Vicki Ward and we're back on Monday. Have a lovely weekend.

Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live and we do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four on Times radio. The jeopardy is off the scale

and if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.