Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Pottering across the landing, livid (with Vanessa Feltz)

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Thanks to a skilled correspondent sending in a diligent report from Iceland's Phallological museum, Jane and Fi will be spending their evening shredding penis pictures... make of that what you will. They are joined by TV personality Vanessa Feltz on her memoir "Vanessa Bares All: Frank, Funny and Fearless" and she certainly is all of those things. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just like me, they wanna be and Peter would go, oh my balls! Oh, oh get me down, you're killing me, my balls are being strangled. Okay, could you please cut, cut lower Peter. On the Times Tech podcast, we asked Microsoft's boss Satya Nadella whether he thinks the power of the big tech companies like his might be bad for us. I don't know if that makes a difference. The soaps I use are owned by somebody in some company. Plus copyright and AI, economic growth and AI, just how far is he going to take AI?

Join me, Katie Prescott. And me, Danny Fortson. On the Times Tech podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Times Tech podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well, it's crossed my mind. Tell me a bit more about it. Well, with Norwegian Cruise Line, you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday.

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Welcome, welcome aboard. I've put the jack in, jane I'm on. Now my colleague here is going to be covered in testosterone when she does an interview that we don't need to talk about yet after we've done the podcast today so I just want to if I had an estrogen I'd give it to you I really would. Okay well if I if I was using a patch but I'm not I'd take lozenges, I would lean very, very heavily on my batch. I'm just going, I'm talking to Errol Musk, who's Elon Musk's father, and he's a man that Elon Musk has described as evil, and they don't have the best of relationships, and Errol is quite outspoken. I'll be talking to him from Pretoria in South Africa. He might be on childcare duty because he has got two very young kiddies.

Oh, I expect he'll, well, they'll be with him, I imagine. He might be on childcare duty because he has got two very young kiddies. Oh, I expect they'll be with him, I imagine. He'll probably be doing something clever with Play-Doh whilst doing the interview. He's been married multiple times and his latest set of children are born to him of his former stepdaughter. Let's start the podcast. Right, an American checking in about the elections. This is from Kristin in Indiana, and I owe her an apology. So this is on me.

You extended an invitation for your American listeners to weigh in, so I have. Your episode from October the 21st was the last one I listened to for a good long while, so she might not hear this. Whoops. At least until after the elections are over. I'm self-aware enough to know that many of us are in fight, flight, freeze mode as the

campaigns are in their final days and so I gave my stomach a minute before replying. After all, I understand that our elections lurch from circus to horror show and Schadenfreude can be entertaining but this is what got me and this was me who said this. I mean did you hear the Times Radio breakfast show this morning talking about whether Kamala Harris had ever worked at McDonald's and apparently she might not have done. So I said that and I'm aware that I did and Kristen says the repeating of disinformation and this is without being clear that it had been fact checked and debunked is how it spreads and takes hold. Trust me, Mike Pence was my

governor. And since you do have American listeners, you are influencing undecided voters, whether you realize it or not. Kristin, thank you. I don't know whether we're really able to influence undecided voters, I think it's unlikely, but I did say that and I mean that she's right that because I repeated something that I hadn't been entirely sure of, I'm adding to the brew, I'm chucking that into the mix and people did say well she didn't really work at McDonald's, she just did and anyway it's now out there so I take Kristen's point. Okay, but I wouldn't say that that is a true crime against democracy actually, because if I can just back you up here, sister, I think it is completely clear

which side of the fence you come down on in this election. And it's a very good point that all types of disinformation and misinformation form part of a larger picture. But I would pretty much guarantee that within the same breath, there would have been something you said that was condemning Donald Trump. Because I think we've gone, you know, we've we've definitely lost our impartiality and previous establishment balance on this one. And do you know what Jane, I remember sitting on a stage with you way way way way way back when we went to Manchester didn't we? When we, was it a book thing? Was it just before lockdown? It would have been before lockdown

yep and we were talking about Donald Trump and I remember having a conversation with you on stage about how there should have been a time where we didn't report his ascendancy, where instead of giving him legitimacy and the argument was always, you know, well, you know, he's standing for office and therefore we have to allow him the same place on the platform that we allow other people. And actually his madness and his derogation of normal duties was always clear. And way back when we should have just gone, that's not good, and you know, moved on from there. But we gave him a lot of air time in the beginning. Oh yeah, because he's quite entertaining. And I find myself going in search of more stuff about him and the American election in a really odd way, in the same way that I'm

always, you know, I really, really, really want to look at my phone when I wake up in the morning. It's the same addictive thing of it's a bright light, it's a big noise, what will have happened next? Well I'm completely in the same boat. Yeah and I don't like it about myself. I don't like it either. I really don't like it about myself but I'm absolutely doing the same thing and I think that's probably what Kristen is getting at when she says that so many people in the States are in fight, flight, freeze mode. It was difficult at the BBC because I think, well I know, when I was working there, it was tying

itself up in knots trying to be balanced and pointing out that Donald Trump had been democratically elected. Yes, and so he was afforded this extraordinary largesse because nobody wanted to say that's a stupid thing for somebody to have done to put his you know to put their their chad the ex in the box next to his name but i don't know was that the was that coming down on the right side of history well i think we now know that it wasn't but then what else can organizations like that do and it's going to be extremely difficult for organizations of that nature if he wins again. Because, well, as far as we know, although we are talking on The Times Radio show today about potential election interference,

but actually it's even really, it's challenging to mention election interference, because if the authorities in any country say there has been election interference, a chunk of the voting population immediately pounces on that as a deep state conspiracy. So how on earth do you deal with it? You can't. Anyway, have we got any willy-shaped carrots in today? Let's look at genitalia in vegetable form. We do, we've got, I think we've got some mentions coming up. Actually no, we've got a detailed description of the phallological museum from our correspondent who offered to send us

pictures and to detail her trip. We will do that in just a couple of moments time. This one comes in from Claire in Southsea though. I'm so impressed with Bill Bailey's take on not swearing in his act. I occasionally work front of house at my local... could you say the word for me please? Theatre. Thank you. But what would you say? Playhouse. But always avoid the big-name comedians as most of them just use swearing to get a laugh. I have to say that Harry Hill and Sarah Pascoe never swear. Victoria Wood, Morkham and Wise, they never swore, nor did the two Ronnies, isn't swearing to get a laugh just lazy writing. I'm not saying I don't swear, sometimes behind the wheel I become a different person and my language isn't always

clean, but swearing to get a laugh and to make a lot of money to me seems wrong. Rant over. Yeah, no shit in us Claire. It was just so obvious, I'm so sorry. I agree, actually, and sometimes, you know when, now on the podcasts, because they're not governed by such a kind of tight mesh as open broadcasts are, when somebody does start effing and seeing, using the seat bar, do you know what? It makes me feel very, very, very uncomfortable. And old granny speaks, I just don't like it. I just don't like it, and I don't think there's any need to use it.

And I know there are lots of feminists who say we need to reclaim the C word. But I don't know... I never understood that argument, Jane. I don't... What... No, if you want to really insult someone, why call them something that is something that I have, you have, over half the population has? Why is that the so-called rudest word of all? I can't bear it. And I think people who fall into that trap are just ignoring what it actually says about how society treats women and girls.

Yeah. And I've never thought and never understood that argument of let's sink as low as the opponent in order for us to have a meeting of minds. I would rather do the when they go low we go high thing. No. Oh God, can we stop? I was going to say let's stop talking about the American election, but I just want to bring in another. That's OK. Who's suffering? It's like don't worry, we'll get to the phallological music just after this everybody. That's the important stuff and also we've got a great guest today Vanessa Feltz.

Lisa is in Colorado and she's playing into my hands because her email is entitled anxious in Colorado. I live in the mountains not too far from Denver. Doesn't that sound fabulous? It does. I have to say the atmosphere in my small town is much better than four years ago, but my anxiety is still climbing as the election approaches. There are fewer yard signs in my rural neighbourhood for either candidate than last time round and way fewer red hats around town, but Colorado is certain to go for Harris anyway. I try not to pay too much attention to the polls or the headlines but they are unavoidable. Now on a hazy whim this past August while doing what Coloradans do in a hot tub on a sunny Sunday afternoon,

my husband and I decided we'd had a really rough summer, a cancer scare, death and dementia in the family and that we should treat ourselves by going to see Paul McCartney in Costa Rica. It's quite a gig. You're in your tub and you suddenly think, you know what? We bought amazingly cheap, very close to the stage tickets, used all of our points on the airfare and arranged for my mother-in-law to stay with our teen for a week. Several days later I realised where the date of the concert sounded quite familiar. November the 5th. We decided to still go, but I'm panicking about leaving my children

and having a layover in Florida on our way home on November the 6th. I'm very glad we'll have a fabulous distraction on the night though. In 2016, we went to bed at 8 o'clock and were barely able to speak or function for days afterwards. The world won't fall apart the next day, right? My husband is perpetually sanguine about everything, which is one of the reasons I love him, but that means he hates it when I catastrophise. I think it's quite difficult to be married, Really, who made that noise? Sorry.

I'm a very, very squeaky chair. The oldest story in the book. It is quite hard to be with somebody who is just always sanguine, because sometimes you need someone to indulge your catastrophizing if that's the thing that you're into. So says the woman who's only got one gear. Absolutely, I permanently catastrophize.

But I'm also quite sanguine at the same time. You know, I don't really get aerated. Anyway, Lisa, look, just have a great night on November the 5th seeing Makkah McCartney out there in Costa Rica. I just hope it's worth it because, can I just say something, I don't know about his voice anymore. Is that okay? Can you say that? I think you can because I think we witnessed that at Glastonbury. Yes and I just, I hope, I know he's still touring, in fact I think he's coming to London, isn't it? Just before, the week before Christmas. You're going,

are you Hannah? Yeah that's right, there were no tickets left for me when I asked because there's like a box, a News UK box. And Hannah's in the box. She's going. Amazing. Well that's, do you know what, that's the way it should be. That wasn't quite how I felt. Well no, no, no, of course I'm delighted for Hannah. Anyway. really good to hear because because sometimes you think it's you know it's the it's the cream at the top that get all of the treats. What treats have I had lately? Oh no I got that. What? Did we get a jar of something quite recently? Oh no you know what I mean you know we've we've both been to lovely things back at the other place and the producers and the people who did the real work were never invited. No. I'm so upset with myself, says Lisa, that I didn't push my husband into leaving the

country as soon as possible after 2016. Our younger kids were then 8 and 11 and we could have made the change easily, but my husband didn't want to abandon his career and to be fair, leaving my older daughter and granddaughters would have been extremely difficult. Now of course if the worst happens our chances of emigrating to Canada or New Zealand or the UK are even lower than before. If my husband kept his job here and worked remotely we could get residency in Costa Rica but there aren't many opportunities for kids in Central America. I know everything won't fall apart immediately. I just have an almost irresistible urge to gather my daughters and granddaughters and flee." says Lisa. That's an almost,

that plays into my apocalyptic thinking there Lisa. I really don't think it's going to be that bad. I hope. You never know. Well, we don't know. I don't know where that burst of optimism came from. But let's just hope, let's just hope that it doesn't all go off. Let's hope that Paul McCartney is in his best vocal form on the night of November the 5th in Costa Rica. The advantage that Paul McCartney has is that the lyrics are never very complicated, everybody knows them and the crowd can do an awful lot of the work and you know a lot of the oldies but also a lot of the greats, they get the crowd to do most of the singing. Do they? Is that how they roll? We went to see a Robbie Williams gig once and no... How old is he compared to Macka McCartney? No joke, we did about 80% of the work,

No joke. We did about 80% of the work. It was just funny. It's just, oh god please Robbie, just sing the first bit. So he just left it to you. Yeah and he joined in sometimes. But it was great actually. It's lovin' you, and Steve's a real witty... Oh! We heard it from the car park because I... You left? I was worried about getting home. Oh God! I've heard Angels and other songs from quite a lot of car parks and tube stations.

Come on, we're going. If you were at a really entertaining football match, would you be one of those people who went five minutes before the end? Very much so. I think it was a big away game. Yep. And don't forget, I left the Roger Federer, Raffa Nadal matcher. Oh, weren't you very heavily pregnant? I was heavily pregnant and I just kept on eating a wee.

And the people behind were getting a little bit annoyed. Right, well if you heard Giles Brandreth yesterday in the podcast, we were talking about getting up in the night and as luck would have it, guess what happened to me last night? You see it always died boasted and you should never do that. Did you have to get up? Twenty past three, pottering across the landing with a... I was livid. And I was also laughing thinking,

I had this coming. Yep, has wished that upon you. Did you do something different yesterday evening? Did you drink too much before going to bed? I watched Panorama. Yeah. And that probably didn't help. Me too. I find at the moment I'm having a little no alcohol beer. Oh, so did I!

All day evening. That makes me way in the night. Oh, that'll be it, because that's what I had. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, we've got so much in common. No, we haven't. Right. But it's funny, can I just say that there's something about holding a bottle of beer, even if it's no alcohol, and no alcohol beers have so much improved. They're gorgeous. Some of them are properly nice drinks now. I had Barone last night. What did you have? I had an Asaki.

Oh, well, the Japanese one. Just showing my knowledge of the world there. Barone is Italian. No, I actually find them very thirst quenching, but there's something about holding that you think, I'm having a beer. Are you drinking from the bottle? Yes. On your sofa? Yeah just do that. Even Hannah's shocked at that. I scratch my buttocks while I'm

doing it. Why not? Watching panorama with your hand down your trackie bottoms. I said move along. Judith is our correspondent who visited the world's only phallological museum in Reykjavik and she has sent us a very very detailed resume of her visit to set the scene. It's blustery and cold up Iceland but my trolley dash around Uniglo for their thermonuclear tech radioactive range of leggings, vests and socks. Tell you what, they are good. Is paying off. Mr Rigsby seems snug in his long johns. The museum is vests and socks. Tell you what, they are good. Is paying off. Mr. Rigsbyt seems snug in his long johns. The museum is contemporary bright and welcoming.

It's about 16 pounds entry. Gosh, it's quite a lot. It is a lot, isn't it? Yeah. As soon as you're in, no messing about, you're smacked in the face by brazenly displayed whoppers in formaldehyde that could give Arnold Palmer's swing a run for his money. Poor Arnold Palmer, let's just move it on. Wild Boar's horse's giraffe's wails, you progress on to smaller mammals, one poor sod the door mouse needs a magnifying glass to see it. Then you get to the humans, a few random locals and a man whose life's ambition was to donate his willy after his death in his 90s. Jimi Hendrix is there in the form of a plaster cast along with some other clearly drug crazed rock musicians. There's a troll, a bit warty, a chandelier made of foreskins, a bit hairy and a variety of practical household objects in penile form. If after

all that you're in need of a stiff drink, the cafe has themed cocktails and as previously mentioned penis shaped waffles slathered in cream. It's just such a bizarre thing to set up and Judith I'm very glad to have enjoyed your visit. Thank you for the pictures, we will shred them. And Judith says I'm available and willing for future assignments, in fact I'm going away again after Christmas, guess where? She's not going back to Iceland is she? No. I just don't know where? Bangkok. Jane you wondered whether himself might have thought it a scene setter for romance let me

tell you by the time you've peeled pulled and plucked at five layers of thermo-eco-tec-nion you're spent and can only flop listlessly to one side. Right Judith you are in our employ now we'd like to hear other stuff from you you write write very well and that was beautifully detailed. I feel now I don't need to go so I won't. She's been so we don't have to go. The detail of the waffle with the cream, I just... It's just silly Jane, it's just very, very silly. It's fatuous isn't it? Isn't it just?

Yes, it's disgusting. Goullies is this email from Susanna. Were either of you brownies? Yes, very briefly. Yeah, I was a brownie. I was an imp. What were you? I was an imp. An imp? Oh, sorry, I don't know. Didn't you stay long enough to even get be assigned a patrol? No, because it was over in Oakley, which is actually quite a long drive for my mum on a weekday evening so we only lasted about a term. I didn't go on any camps or anything like that. No but you would have been in a...

You'd have been in a... I can't remember, I've blanked it for my memory. Blanked it, okay. If you were in the Brownies with Fee however briefly, let us know which group she was in. Well either of you Brownies, if so then you must have sung that rather weird, somewhat gibberish, catchy song, Gingang Guli. Yeah, I do remember that. I've no idea where it came from, so I did a quick Google,

yes, Google, not Guli, and it stated, the lyrics and the melody were presumably derived from student singing in Central Europe. Robert Baden-Powell is often quoted as the originator of the song, but there's no evidence that he was involved in its creation or nor its introduction. So now you have a theme tune for your campaign to restore the word ghouly to everyday usage. I recall we sang it in rounds, so somebody started and then the next person and then the next etc. We could try this across all your listeners to see where it gets to across the globe. Just a thought I had at 3am. Susanna, thank you. Do you remember singing in rounds was something

that we all did and then we just it's one of those things we didn't quite routinely and they just never do it again do you? They don't, yep. It's rather nice. Frere Jacques, London's Burning. London's Burning was a classic. It was, yep. Frere Jacques was alright until you got to the third line and then nobody knew what they were saying, did they? Dormez-vous, dormez-vous, sonne-ou-mame. Sonne-ou-l'imtee-la. Lemon-chamel. You're right, actually, it was the third line.

You go for it without having any real understanding. Ding-dang-dong! A little bit like watching the most elite members of our football squad singing the National Anthem. Never mind lads, next time we'll do something from the Sugar Babes. Which they may not know, or they may know, what am I talking about? Some of them have been with sugar babes haven't they? So they ought to know some of their, or have they? I thought the sugar babes are probably now in their 50s. One of them turned up on Celebrity Masterchef, she was very good, she was very good, yeah but she's got a lot of tattoos, I was very distracted by them and she had quite, I think she had quite long nails as well. I don't think it should be cooking. You certainly shouldn't be using a mandolin with a long nail.

God. No. I know. Where the tattoos were on the arm were they? Yes, I think she had some, you know, visible around her neck line as well. I always just want to, you know, know exactly what they are. Yes, and why.

Vanessa Feltz is quite something. A woman who's been at the top of her profession for three decades. One of the very few people in this country to not really need her surname when you announce her. She's graced BBC One, ITV, Radio 2 and Talk TV with her clever presence, always as the Queen of Chat. Her personal life is tabloid fodder, something she says she really hates, and now she's written her side of the story in a very revealing memoir it's called Vanessa bears all Frank funny and fearless and it really is all of those things. She tells us the reader quite a

bit about her childhood also about her marriage and subsequent relationship it's quite brutal in parts and after reading it I wanted to drive over to her house and give her a massive hug. We began the interview by asking Vanessa if she set out to write a very honest memoir or actually she just couldn't really write anything but. I think I wouldn't have seen the point in doing it if it wasn't honest. I certainly didn't want to you know gloss it over or dress it up much but I really did think at the beginning what the bleeding hell am I gonna put in it? I just thought you know I got born, I went to school, I got married, and then I was on

the radio, then I was on the telly, and then I wasn't much, and then I was a bit, and then now here we are. I didn't really think, I wasn't really sure what the hell to put in it is the truth. I was worried that it would just be, I woke up, I had to say a real A.S.U.P., I went to bed, and I wasn't sure what to say. So that was my main problem, not will I be honest? I knew I'd be honest, but just what was the content going to be? Well, I mean, the content is magnificent apart from anything else. You've really treated the reader to a very delicious rendition of Who is Who in the Celebrity World. And you don't spare the punches. And we'll come to that in a bit. But also, I thought sometimes

it's quite hard to write about your childhood. It involves so many other people, doesn't it? Well, that's right, but I mean, the chief protagonists are dead. My mother died 29 years ago and I miss her every day, every hour, all the time. My dad died about five years ago. So I hope I haven't in any way

sort of impugned their blessed memory because I miss them and I love them very much. But of course, family life's incredibly complicated and difficult and I hope I haven't, you know, in any way impugned their blessed memory because I miss them and I love them very much. But of course, family life's incredibly complicated and difficult and I hope that I've at least tried to convey that. You do say quite early on in the book that you think that your mother transferred her attitude to food onto you as a kind of diversionary tactic for her. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now Jane, there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest, we get quite a lot of those in the UK

don't we? I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of art if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul. Yeah, you're on to something there, because scientific research suggests that regularly looking at art could help you live longer, plus lots of other well-known benefits to boost your wellbeing and help reduce stress. So why not get a National Art Pass? It gives you free and half price entry at hundreds of museums and galleries and only costs £59.25 for an individual pass.

And there's a reduced price for under £30 and you can also purchase plus one and plus kids add-ons. Free or half price entry and a chance of living longer, I am sold. The National Art Pass. See more, live more. Get your pass at artfund.org forward slash off air. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Cilvax-Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCelvax.ca. And actually the book is full of you being so tough on yourself about how you look and what you weigh. Yes, I do think that's what happened. I mean I think my mother had been made to feel fat even though she wasn't really fat. She was probably a 14, 16 maybe. She definitely wasn't

ever any bigger than a 16 and we know that 47% of British women are a size 16 or above so she was just an average sized person who'd been made to feel fat but I wasn't a plump little chubby little child that loves eating and has to be sort of you know forcibly dragged away from the birthday cake that just wasn't me at all I was a quite skinny sort of wispy little child that wasn't really into food particularly and I remember asking for the tiniest, tiniest portion at school. And I don't remember being hungry. I don't remember thinking I had such a small lunch. What can I have for tea? Give me some chocolate.

That wasn't my personality or my makeup at all. But my mum, I think, was just completely hardwired to be terrified of my becoming fat. So when I did this unforgivable thing, and I must say, I was made to feel it was unforgivable, and I was made to feel it was my fault, which was to start developing, as they used to call it, what a euphemism, but you know, basically getting boobs and pubic hair and greasy hair and blackheads at about nine years old

and periods at 10. This was considered a really heinous crime and sin. And there was constant sort of lamentation about how lovely I had been, you know, when I was a lovely, fragrant sort of baby or very young child that didn't need deodorant and, you know, didn't have pustules. I was lovely. And I was just a lot less lovely now. And I felt pretty terrible about it. I wished I could have been, you know, eternally a baby or constantly fragrant. And it was difficult. And then as soon as I obviously started getting curves and periods and spots,

I put on weight, but hardly any. And I've got pictures in the book so that people can see it wasn't I suddenly blow up like a gigantic barrage balloon. But I think my mum panicked and began, you know, quite sort of frenziedly dieting me from that moment. And I must say, I don't think she did it to be horrible. I don't think she meant to be nasty. I don't.

But certainly the net effect wasn't very nice. Yeah. So she actually made you eat different meals to the rest of the family, even when the meals were just soup. Yes. I mean, that just, why didn't somebody intervene? Why didn't your dad say more? I don't know.

My dad had a great deal to say on every topic. He really was the kind of person who would, you know, almost come with a portable orange box and stand on it and claim and hold forth. And if he wasn't giving you a few Latin tags or creating T.S. Eliot or Wittgenstein or Shakespeare or someone, he was just holding forth on his own. He was extremely entertaining and very, very amusing and highly loquacious. So why he didn't just say, for God's sake, Valerie, don't make her eat the grapefruit when we're all having the chicken soup, don't be silly, she's only nine or ten or twelve or whatever it was. I don't know, but he certainly didn't. Is this because you were already being groomed for the marriage market? Because you did marry

really young by contemporary standards. Oh my god it didn't seem young it seemed as if I was absolutely over the hill and there was almost all hope had been given up and I was 23. Yeah engaged at 22 married at 23 and a baby at 24 yes but that was considered really late and worrying. This is North London Jewish circles. Yes and it wasn't 1803 I was born in 1962 but it felt as if as I've said and I really mean it, I haven't written anything I don't mean, anything that appears to be exaggerated or over-sensitive, it isn't, I mean it. It felt like growing up in Fiddler on the Roof, it just felt like, you know, that the matchmaker should be coming and fixing me up from the age of about six. I'm not joking, I mean it. You do say, talking about exactly that, that there just wasn't a place for a young woman who was single.

Being single was just part of the journey to them being part of a couple. And if you were single, it meant that nobody chose you. You were unclaimed. That's absolutely it. In fact, there was a place, but it was a place that dare not speak its name. Is this the kiddie table? Yes, it was the place that you would just never never ever want to be on, you know, on pain almost to death, which was the singles table at a permits for, which meant that you were just one of the odd sods, one of the odds and sods that no one had snapped up. You weren't married, you weren't chosen, nobody fancied you, nobody wanted you. And there you were

at that singles table. And the real awful, awful part of this is I don't have a happy ending in this regard. I'm not Miranda Hart. Nobody came to fix my mold and married me. Nobody. I've got a bit of a slight damp problem in the kitchen I'm wondering whether I should send out for handyman. I think you should. Maybe the blessing of Miranda might smite me that would be good. And it's it's so good to find a bloke who's actually useful as well. So I think ditch all the dating apps, just do checkatrade.com. OK, I'm going to say you told me to. Yes.

We will come on to your current status in a couple of moments. But what struck me, Vanessa, is just you're this incredibly beautiful, funny, vivacious, clever young woman. So you go to Cambridge and you obviously have your wits about you. So you can observe loads of other ways of living. So is it love that took you back to the family mentality and meant that you couldn't kind of break away from it? That's such a good question. I'm not sure of the answer really. I think I didn't imagine there was any alternative to just going home again afterwards and kind of taking up the cudgels of that life. I mean I saw

people were you know moving to Cornwall and weaving rush matting and some people were you know heading for the Himalayas or something but it it felt so alien to anything I was expected to do and I hadn't I suppose been brought up to kick over the traces. I've been brought up to just go home and get on with it and getting on with it really just meant getting married. So you meet the good doctor. There are some ding-dong alarm bells aren't there about his attitude to your success? Only I thought that they were... do you mean what he said on the very first date or do you mean that subsequently? Well on the very

first date he was driving me around in a car he borrowed from a nurse I think. He didn't have a car and he was wearing some old jumper that he, I don't know, picked up at a tombola. And I was not taking him seriously as a potential sort of love interest really, until he said, what do you do? And I said, I'm a freelance journalist and I've just written a piece about Princess Diana's maternity wear. And he said, oh my God, how frivolous, how trivial, how superficial. Gosh, you must hate yourself, you know, goodness me, really, what, you're wasting your time on on on on subjects like that. And instead of thinking, I hate you, you're horrible,

I never want to see you again, how dare you diminish me, I love writing about this kind of thing, which I do. I thought, god, you really get me, you just understand, you know, what a sham and what a kind of awful, awful person I am, you know, writing about organza and sequins when you're saving lives. Oh my God, I love you. That's what I thought. That's really what happened. That is the truth. Oh my God. I can't believe all this is true. I wish I'd made it up and exaggerated. You clearly haven't. You do say later in the book, this book froths with my idiotic decisions. Hear, hear. But I mean, that, by the way, is an indication of how well written this book is. There's some great stuff in here. Thank you.

I'm with my sister here. You need to own your absolutely towering intellect. I mean, it's because people who don't know about your back story, you know this, they are going to dismiss you as sofa-bound daytime TV totty. People do, don't they? I don't know what they think about me. I don't know what people assume I am. I've no idea. You care? Yes, of course I do. I care very much. I think people think I'm quite clever. I think they think I've read a few things.

I think they think I know a few things. I mean,'ve heard me interview, you know, Prime Ministers and take politicians to task and they've heard me do kind of serious political type radio for years and years and be a columnist in various different guises. I think people think that I know a few things but maybe they don't. I don't know. I don't really know. But I have been sofa-bound daytime TV. I don't know about Totti, not the Totti bit, a sofa-bound TV person. I would say you were totty. Oh I don't think that. I mean look I'd even say you still are. Oh god bloody hell I must come again. You tell us the readers some really fantastic things about living inside the Hall of Fame. Yes. Yes. Do you want to just go through some of those rules? I really loved your description of how famous

people who don't know each other greet each other. And I wonder whether you could give Jane Garvey, obviously, a talented pillar of our celebrity community. Can you give her the look that you would give her if you saw her at a function that you two had never met? Yes, I would look at her like this. It would be a huge smile, it would be a big hand gesture, it would be, hi! Hi! And then she would probably, if she had decent manners, look straight back at me and go, hi! And then we might even kiss. And neither of us would acknowledge the fact that we've never met, we actually haven't worked together, you know, I wasn't on your This Is Your Life, you know, we didn't sort of stew in the I'm a celebrity jungle together. We would just be instant celebrity chums because we're both famous

and that is enough to have in common or infamous. Is it enough though? Oh yeah. Is it really? Yeah man, it is. So have you got lots and lots of decent, fully supportive celebrity pals? I've got lots of real celebrity pals who are my actual friends in real life. You have some celebrity pals in the book.

I do, who are really, really decent and that's not pretend, that's real. But the ones you don't know, and you have an instant I'm famous, you're famous spark with, it's just that you know what it's like to be recognized and pilloried, trolled, photographed when you don't want to be, photographed when you do want to be,

asked what are your five favorite things in your fridge, all the kind of funny things that happen when you're famous. And I think you also know if you are famous, that some people who are always on TV or often on the radio aren't famous, and some people are, and there's no deserving of it. You know, some are and some aren't. Like, it's been like take that, you know, everybody focused on Robbie Williams, because he was the one. And they didn't, the management didn't think that was going to be it. They thought it was going to be Gary Barlow, who was less razzmatazzi and was less kind of famous. And the others, we can't even remember their names anymore.

An orange and apple, we don't know. Mark, Jason. Yeah, okay. It is very difficult to name all of those people. Mark, Jason. There's also a fantastic chapter called, damn Should Have Shagged Wesley Snipes. Yeah I should have done. That was a terrible mistake. Why didn't you?

Well I was married and had two lovely daughters and respectable responsible citizen and you know if my husband had left me because I shagged Wesley Snipes I never would have forgiven myself and so that's why I didn't but he was most definitely and I use this term technically up for it and we were on the bed on the big breakfast and it was a Sunday morning pre-record and he said he wanted to stage a cops and robbers show in my between my breasts he wanted you know the coppers to run down and then the police to run down the gully of my cleavage etc etc. What year was this? 96 I think. Okay before before Me Too. I wouldn't have thought that was at all Me Too, it was entirely welcome. Was it? Yes, it wasn't

Me Too-ish at all, it was absolutely magnificent. Can you just give us a very brief couple of words on some of the other celebrities that you mentioned here because it's just fantastic. Choose a celebrity. Yes exactly here we go. Woody Harrelson. Woody Harrelson was ridiculous. I don't know if he was off his face I know he was incredibly Disobliging and he was just peeling a mango the whole time and and kind of sucking the juice of the mango and I didn't Mention it and I didn't mention it. Okay. Was he in town for he did a one-man play didn't he somewhere? Oh, I have no idea what he was vlogging. We left at half time. Don't know what it was. Dennis Quaid. Well Dennis Quaid, sort of uncooperative, sinister, difficult, prickly, bridling with annoyance and even being good morning.

You know, just one of those real pillocks. Thank God for Joan Rivers. Joan Rivers, absolutely magnificent guest. Superb. And you know how, well, you know, often when you interview a comedian, you're given the lines in advance so that you can say, oh, tell me about, you know, the incident with the gerbil, and then they can say, oh, funny you asked me that, Vanessa, and tell their gerbil joke. Obviously, if you don't know they've got a gerbil joke, you can't ask them.

So that's why there's preparation often for a kind of fake, spontaneous interview with a comic. But with Joan Rivers, there was no preparation whatsoever it was totally live I'd never seen it till the second she got on the big breakfast bed but it seemed as if there was she was so seamless in her you know a repartee and hilarious rebuttals and all that kind of thing it looked as if we'd rehearsed and we hadn't absolutely amazing yeah amazing woman and Goldie Horn was lovely Goldie Horn was just wonderful she Oh Goldie Horne was just Wonderful. She was kind and sweet and you know, she's she's a what is she a billionaire? She's so successful

She's been so many unbelievable hit films, but she really genuinely seemed to care if she'd gone over big on the big breakfast You know, she really seemed to mind had a spot on her chin that she was terribly conscious and she was very nice to your daughter Exactly. I had bought a leg room because Allegra was having a rough time at school. Some people were bullying and it was kind of before the school bullying protocol days. She was just kind of being left to fend for herself. And so I brought her in with me to the Big Breakfast to give her a day of kind of regrouping and feeling all right. And Goldie Hawn said, well, who is this lovely little girl and why is she here? And showed a proper interest. And so I thought, well, I'll tell her. So I told her and she said that Kate Hudson had been through something very similar.

And then she went into quite an excellent, especially for 1996, analysis of, you know, if a bully is bullying, they are the ones having the problem. It's not you and all of that, which I actually hadn't heard before at that point. And she was just incredibly nice. And even though all her minders were trying to move her along and get her out the door, she didn't go until she'd finished talking to Allegra in this very sweet way. And none of it was necessary and all of it was lovely. And so I think she's incredible.

You actually got on quite well with Boris Johnson when he was London Mayor. And I mean, listen, I can't stand the man. I've just got to be totally honest with you. But from your perspective as a radio presenter, I can see why you liked him, because as a guest he was the gift that kept on giving. Absolutely, as a guest on radio he was just sheer joy. He'd come bumbling in with his bicycle clips on, his helmet askew, carrying the milk because

one of my team would ring and say, oh Boris we forgot the milk, can you pick it up on the way in? And he would pick it up, which I thought was damn nice and not necessary. And so he wasn't, it wasn't all about pomp or circumstance or treating him in a different way at all. He comes sort of ricocheting in and then would always say something entertaining, noteworthy, possibly headline worthy. He wasn't boring. So as a radio host, what do you want from a guest? Do you want them to say something riveting, controversial, astounding? And he always did. And so I really, by the time he'd done it a few times, didn't really care about his politics. In fact, I never really noticed his politics. I was just overwhelmed by the act. You know, the act was sensationally good. He was

as talented as a guest. He was tremendous. Well, I think that's quite a prescient thing to say, actually, that you stopped noticing the politics because there are many people who would say that, you know, that's what brought him down in the end. You didn't really know what the politics were. And that might be why I didn't notice it. Because you couldn't really tell what it was. Can we also talk about Rolf Harris because you do detail your experience with him, which is just chilling actually because as with so

much of this stuff it happened in plain sight. Absolutely I was live on the bed with him on the big breakfast and I was incredibly pleased to be because I've been brought up like everyone else in this country loving him and you know loving the young generation and Wei Wei Wong and the painting and the didgeridoo and Sun Arise, He Come in the Morning and all of that was all great. Two little boys. Two little boys particularly was great, you know, and each had a wooden horse, let's face it. We still know the lyrics of that song by heart. And his wife was there and the room at the Big Breakfast was a genuine lockkeeper's cottage,

so absolutely tiny little bedroom that the bed was in, almost entirely full of bed. And then you'd have the cameraman basically sitting on the windowsill, because the bed was so close to the window and so close to the camera and his wife therefore was a few inches from me literally she wasn't feet away or yards away she was right there and then we went live on the show and in those days I used to have a long sort of ball gowns evening dresses to wear in the morning because it looks so funny to have a big fat lady in an evening gown at our past eight in the morning whatever it was so funny to have a big fat lady in an evening gown at you know, our past date in the morning or whatever it was. And suddenly as we were talking

he was smiling away, he was laughing away and I could hear this crunching noise and it was the beads on my dress being crunched up as he crunched them higher and higher and higher up my leg towards my thighs and then towards my underwear and it was extremely difficult to know what to do because on the big breakfast obviously lots of kids watching, feel-good program, you know he's actual Rolf Harris of Rolf Harris fame, you know national institution, his wife's right there as far as I know they're terribly happily married, what do I know? And I don't want to say Rolf Harris is just about to stick his hand inside my... Do I? So I didn't know what to do.

Why didn't a producer or a cameraman or somebody... Well, the cameraman can't because they're filming. I don't know whether there was even a producer in the room. But I mean, what are you going to do? It's live. What can you do? So what I did was throw to a break, which anyone who's in this business knows you're not allowed to do. You don't get to choose as a presenter when you go to a break. You can't possibly have to wait for the director to tell the producer to tell you it's time for a break.

But I didn't know what to do and I wasn't about to let him do what he was about to do. So I did. I went like something like this. Oh my gosh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, my goodness. OK, let's go to a break. Let's let's throw to break like that. And I basically jumped off the bed. And then he just completely unperturbed by this. That's the really wife just chatting away. Yeah

Chris Evans, let's make a leap to this He says to you when you've accepted a job doing the early morning radio to Breakfast show and then going on to radio London to do another show that day. He gives you three weeks. Now you did 12 years, Vanessa. That's right. He said you can't do that. No one does that. You can't do two shows literally one after the other with about 10 minutes in between in a different building across two roads. That's not something anyone can do. So I like the way you're kind of thinking you'll do it, but you won't do it. But I did do it. In fact, a few years before the end, the Radio 2 Breakfast show was extended by an hour and it started instead of at 5am at 4am and I then had to leave home at 20 past

3. So I do two and a half hours on Radio 2 from 4 till 6.30, run down the stairs, jump across the two roads, go up the stairs in the other building, the Peel building, and then do a live handover at quarter to seven and then do the show from seven till ten and very often then run down the stairs at the end, jump on a motorbike, a limo bike and be driven off to do this morning. So I'd done three shows before 11 o'clock in the morning. I mean the big question for me,

because I'm quite lazy, is why? I think because I was pleased to have been asked, because I was always worried about money, because I'm a freelance and if someone wants you to do something you always think, well if I don't do it they'll never ask me again. And also obviously it is quite intoxicating everyone waiting for you and looking for you and seeing where you are and wanting you to get there like where's Vanessa? Oh here she is. She's running in now quick quick You know shove a few false eyelashes on while you're running up the stairs that kind of emergency feeling is quite nice

And you thrive on it. Hmm I do like the way that you get radio and you talk about individual listeners in the book, which is really lovely. And you're absolutely right that they are all flowers in the meadow, aren't they? Yes. And it is really important to remember that they come up on our screens as just Lucy or Janet or John or Paul or whatever. But they're people with whole lives, whole stories to tell. I thought it was a lovely part of it. Thank you very much. I've had this extraordinary experience where I left the BBC, then I was

at News UK for nearly two years and then I moved to LBC. So I'm sitting in LBC, brand new studio, brand new job or brand new and the calls are flooding in and then I'm thinking you know Jim of Lewisham, hang a minute, wait a minute and I I'm thinking, you know, Jim of Lewisham, hang a minute, wait a minute, and I'm like, Jim, are you my Jim? And he's like, yes I am. And I remember suddenly his entire life story, Andy of Morden, French polisher, I know he had a very sad time in his life, I remember that completely. And then so lots of people have come to follow me, even though it hasn't even been a straight mood from the BBC today. So that's a very amazing feeling and very I'm absolutely delighted when

they're my lovely listeners of old and there they are still and still listening and still phoning. I consider it really one of the most delicate compliments of my life. I really mean it you can see. I think Fee and I could both relate to the bits in the book about BBC management. I'm not sure they do get the listener. It would have. I would have written much more about it if the legal team hadn't told me to take stuff out. There are many more things I would have liked to say about the, I don't know, the sort of distant, supercilious, unconnected view of BBC management and the gulf, the enormous chasm between them and the listener.

You know, they don't value the listener, they don't appreciate the listener, they don't seem at all to get what's going on and they don't seem to have any idea of the kind of intimate connection. You know, people are, I know it sounds like a cliche and a Christmas card, I know it does, but it's true, welcoming you into their blinking lives and And they don't have to, they can do something else. They don't have to choose you. Well, exactly. You made the point that during Covid, it was the listeners to early breakfast shows like the one that you were doing.

They were the ones who were getting out there long before there was a vaccine. They were the key workers, but nobody ever seemed to realise that. I knew that because I'd been broadcasting to them for years by then. So I knew that they were the people who were mending the roads, repairing the bridges, you know burying the bodies in mortuaries and you know in funeral parlours, the doctors, the nurses, the ambulance drivers, the people doing the deliveries of food. I mean who else is awake at that time? That's who's listening. So they're

the people that you're clapping for and banging saucepan lids for. So for God's sake treat them with some respect. That's what I really think. And don't put some horrid pre-recorded tape on at that time of the night because you think that they're not real people listening. You think they're a few insomniacs and dipsamaniacs. They're not. They're the people that we're all relying on.

For God's sake, accord them some respect. Have some kind of understanding of who the people that you're playing to actually are. And one way of doing that would be to listen to the programs that your station is outputting. How about that? That wouldn't kill you, would it? Here, here. That would help. Before we have to say goodbye and Jane and I could talk to you forever. You've got me really cross now. No, don't get cross. Don't get cross because you've got even really, I think, and that's always the best way to get rid of the anger.

Could you just tell us the fantastic story about Heineken? Jimmy Savile's not so fantastic is it? And the Lion from London Zoo, but this is the kind of thing that your level of success and celebrity has brought you into. I don't think I know anybody else in our constellation of stars, Vanessa, who could tell a story like this? Well this is this is being us to do a commercial for Heineken in 2000 it was filmed at Pinewood Studios obviously you don't know who's going to be in it with you until you get there and there was Jimmy Saville, Jimmy Hill, Paul Daniels and the lovely Debbie McGee, Tamara Beckwith and Peter Stringfellow anyway that the shtick of it was and it was very clever

if you don't buy more Heineken we're gonna carry on playing these adverts in other words you don't really want to see these people and you're gonna keep on seeing them I didn't care because I was being paid a big big work for it. Did you know that that was going to be it? No not really and the day newmore was we were all eaten alive by a lion from London Zoo and it was pre-CGI so they had to have an actual lion there was only one lion who's made look like five lions I think but he was really there he was just kind of pawing the ground and looking hungry in the background. There was an actual lion there and we were all in I think almost all of the five ads that they made but my particular special one was

me and Peter Stringfellow and I was seated on a crescent moon strumming a liar dressed as an angel singing the Carpenter's Close to You and Peter Stringfellow was hanging high up in the air in the sort of you know I don't know it's several thousand feet above I don't know it's probably about 40 feet up or I don't know what it was but anyways on a string hanging up and so they say okay you know take one snap the clapperboard and I'd be just like me they wanna be and Peter would go oh my balls oh get me down you're killing me my balls are being strangled get me clear okay could you please cut cut lower Peter lower Peter free his balls could you please free Peter's testicles Peter how are your balls now? How are they doing?

Oh, I'm going to absolutely... Well, hang on a minute. Let them swing in the breeze. Let Peter get out of your harness, walk around a bit. Okay, are you getting the feeling back in your balls? Can you feel your balls, Peter? Can you? And he's like, oh, I think so.

Okay, winch Peter up. Peter, get back in your harness. Winch me. Okay. Okay, Vanessa, Peter, close to you. Take two. Just like me, they long to be oh get me down get me down and that's what I think there was something like I don't know 32 takes

how good was the money Vanessa? 10 grand that's not enough it really isn't Vanessa Felt's there and her book is called Vanessa bears all and she really does it is one of the most strikingly honest memoirs I think I've read in recent years and I did want to go over and just give her a massive great big hug afterwards. I think she's quite hard on herself and I think she's a legendary figure in our broadcasting world. Well I think I've said it before because I think we've talked about interviewing her on our fair before I mean last week I think and I just she is

Incredibly hard on herself and I read a lot of male Autobiographies and quite honestly, they are not as hard on themselves. They don't question their choices. They don't reveal their mistakes They just tell you all about their successes by and large or they take you down Anecdote Avenue in a rather lovely and companionable way and I enjoy those books but I do think it's women who are just that well consistently tougher on themselves and the way they've lived their lives and I don't know whether it's a requirement of the publishing industry or whether it's a requirement of us readers that we expect more from female celebrities. I don't know, maybe that is it.

Yes, I don't know either. I'm just trying to think. I mean, I have read quite a few female memoirs and autobiographies which can converge on the kind of nauseatingly not honest. Certainly there are some and there were also ones that are just spectacularly unrevealing about something that happened in a, you know, laughter, a funny incident in a dressing room at the Old Vic 45 years later is not that funny to the rest of us. Whatevs. Yeah. But I can't think of a male autobiography that is quite so revealing of life's dips actually. So you know maybe that will come. Maybe they just need to kind of go there a bit more. Might sell well.

Well we've got Rupert Everett on next week. Well and you're doing the interview. Yes I haven't read his book yet though. Okay well I was going to send you the notes actually because I have because I interviewed him at the Henley... Don't reveal the working but do send me an entry. ...entery festival. Thank God.

Yeah, no, he's such good value, Jane. You'll have an absolutely lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely time with him. He knows how to give good interview and also he is very honest about his life. There was a very funny moment at the Henley Festival where we did questions obviously at the end and a woman in the audience stood up and said how did you make the transition between appearing in the fast musical Moby Dick and then moving on to you know whatever film it was that that he was recording next and he just said I wasn't in Moby Dick and she said yes you were

and they then proceeded to be an argument between Rupert Everett the star of his own life yeah and a woman who was determined he said no you were I've said no you were and in the end he had to just had to say yes okay I was he wasn't he really wasn't well Moby Dick must be is that busy in the museum in Iceland no okay it. It was funny, but he'll be a great guest. Right, I might mention that to him. You should. Now, Fee's not here tomorrow. I'm not.

Have I got J. Mark Curran's tomorrow? No. I think she's in America. We're a tiny bit of a rudderless ship this week. We are a little bit, yes. But we're still sailing on. Okay, well look, if you need me, you can call me at home, but I won't pick up. True spirit of friendship there. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and

Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day Monday to Thursday 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Sylvax Quad and help protect yourself from the

flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca you