Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Profane and profound (with Wendy Mitchell)

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Fi and Louise have shaken up the routine and recorded this episode of Off Air before they've done the live show (no one tell Jane we let them do that, or she'll start getting ideas).They're joined by best-selling author Wendy Mitchell on her new book One Last Thing about living with a diagnosis of young-onset dementia.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] our instagram! @JaneandFiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

so we talk a bit and then you intro the guest yeah that's it okay that's are we recording already yes we are oh shoot no no it's right you've nailed it i mean that is the podcast so i'm so sorry to sort of in any way make it seem less sophisticated than it is. We need to lift out the word just. Okay, so what we do is we have an amazing, funny conversation. We have a profane and profound conversation, Louise mentioned. And then we introduce the day's guest. But I tell you what is discombobulating me.

We're doing it early, aren't we? We're doing it before the programme goes out. I do appreciate the adjustments you've made so that I can be on the radio this weekend on the podcast. Well, I've just been informed that you're going to leave the show before it finishes today because you've got a train to catch, haven't you? I've got a train to catch. To go and do a previous engagement.

I'm going to go give awards out to teachers. Well, that's lovely. Which is a nice thing to do, isn't it? And thank you very much for being so accommodating. I couldn't cancel them. That's been booked for six months. When did you phone? You know, like Friday or something?

I think last Wednesday. We nailed you down. But that just makes me laugh because, I mean, the only thing that is really, really solid about a radio programme is the time. ...is what time it starts.

I'm aware of that. And what time it finishes. And in 31 years of broadcasting... Are you saying I'm a diva? I have never heard of anyone just go... It was my people. I'll just go at 4.45. Boom!

So what happened... Okay, to back up. I'm not a diva. I can't say I'm... I mean, they're not going to believe me now, are they? But I really wanted to be on the show and I just couldn't get out of it. And I literally, I needed to be in a TARDIS

to get to the award ceremony on time. And I think I didn't do the negotiating, but whoever did it, did it really. Because as you say, in my many years of broadcasting, never has that been allowed. So thank you, Fee you it would be the equivalent of us all watching

BBC Breakfast and to see you looking at a watch going oh Sainsbury's opens in 10 minutes bye Dan don't you need anything some chimichurri paste

so yeah that's going to happen later on this afternoon I thought you wouldn't mention it Fi oh I'm so going to mention it I know as soon as I stand up

you're going to say bye see ya up oh you go timer oh did you say that you're going to winchester yes i mean you know winchester well don't you so the great hall well that is a huge venue is it i'm feeling nervous well i think it's got a lot of uh it has a lot of atmosphere because it is very connected to king alfred the whole of winchester to very connected to King Alfred. Right. So there's a very big statue outside. I mean, my main concern at this point is how close it is to the station and how fast they have to run to it.

Well, the good thing about Winchester is it's downhill from the station. Oh, OK, good. But then you'll hurt a little bit. Well, you won't, will you? You'll just jog up afterwards. I hope it goes well, actually. What a lovely thing to do. Shall we you won't, will you? You'll just jog up afterwards. I hope it goes well, actually. What a lovely thing to do. Shall we just say congratulations to all teachers? Don't you think? Especially because of what they've been through the last few years as well.

I think it's been really tough. And I'm sure everybody listening has a teacher that made a difference to their lives. Mine was Mrs. Robinson, who was a maths teacher, and I loved her and she was brilliant. And we did terrible things in class but she was brilliant what about you I had a amazing classics teacher did you Mrs Rankin right who actually one of our lovely listeners on the podcast uh who also had her at school informed me that she died quite recently yeah and we were both very sad about that she was amazing because she just treated us like we were adults yeah i mean properly she didn't put on that thing of i'm going to treat you like an adult she treated us like adults and we just loved her i don't know how mrs robinson put up with us honestly tell us one of the words it wasn't me yeah i mean it

really wasn't me i wouldn't I wouldn't do this to anybody. I think someone, I know someone, shut her in the cupboard. It's terrible, isn't it? I mean, truly, truly terrible. It is quite bad. Isn't it? How long for? I don't know.

An eye-watering... I mean, if I was locked up in a cupboard, one second is too long. So I've got... I mean, it's just terrible. But how the people who did it didn't have really serious punishments, I don't know. But that was back in the day, wasn't it? I'm not in any, I mean, it was horrific.

So she was amazing. So Mrs. Robinson, if you are listening, and I did meet her years ago back in the playground. I was with my children and she did come up to me. She recognised me. And clearly I wasn't one of the locker uppers um she um and she was sweet she was lovely so mrs robinson i thank you i know i wasn't very good at maths but thank you for being brilliant yeah no that is lovely were you a very

bright kind of all-star student no were you you probably were no? No. I was a late developer. I just wanted to put it that way. Were you? Yeah. So, I mean, you've done incredibly well. Late in everything for you. You've got right to the top of your chosen profession in a very, very competitive industry as well. So that's interesting. I would have had you down for a very diligent, hardworking student. Oh, no. No. You got me all wrong. Really?

I was so badly behaved, even at university. And then I had a moment when my life changed and I decided that this was not the course. If I wanted to do the things I wanted to do, I needed to knuckle down. I studied Spanish at St Andrews and I got amazing um opportunity to go live and work in Argentina and I was literally the bottom of the university Spanish department I mean everybody else got like you know I mean I

was like and they tried to get rid of me several times, rightly so. And then I went to Argentina and I pretty much learned Spanish from scratch, felt completely in love with the language, felt completely in love with hard work and just came back a changed person. And they kept coming up to me going, what happened? Like I'd had some sort of conversion. And I guess I had. I just decided that I wanted to get on and do exciting stuff and I needed to work hard to do so.

That's interesting. So was some of that as well, just being completely removed from people's expectation of you in a foreign country at quite a young age? Yeah, and really hard because I was the bottom of the Spanish department and even if I'd been the top, the Spanish and Argentina would have been challenging. So I was dropped in a country where I basically didn't understand hardly a word,

working in that language, living in that language. And there is nothing like that to make you sit up and listen and learn. And I learned mostly by... I had to learn because I couldn't eat. If I couldn't go shopping, I didn't learn because I couldn't eat. If I couldn't go shopping and didn't understand, I couldn't eat. And I learnt mostly by watching soap opera.

What was the best soap opera? It was about a nun. It was a nun. It was a Mexican soap opera. She changed my life, the Mexican nun. So all you late developers out there, don't nun. Oh. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'd love to...

So all you late developers out there, don't panic. It's never too late. Yes, I think that's always good to say at this time of year, isn't it, as well? Yeah, when there's exams. I mean, I didn't, you know, I'm not saying I did badly at exams, but I certainly could have done better. I could have done better if I'd actually had some applications. So, yeah, it's not too late, is it?

And I think we all, it took me a long time. I mean, did you always know you wanted to do this? Well, really weirdly from quite a young age, yes. I think I did too, but I didn't think about, you know, to do what I wanted to do, I needed to change my attitude until quite late. Yeah, I didn't start really working, working, working hard until i uh you know got a job i wasn't very good at studying actually at the discipline of studying i only got two a levels okay but i did always just love the radio so i worked really hard at doing that and you know

sometimes um i mean like really properly hard extra shifts at. At one point, I was working at Radio Humberside during the week and I'd come back to London to do two free shifts at the radio station here in London that I wanted to work at. And then I'd get up at four in the morning, drive back to Humberside, all of that kind of stuff. But I don't remember ever feeling tired or resentful. You know, I just had a proper, I love what i'm doing and i want to make it work so i hope that uh i think it's worked for you oh yes no i well i hope it has worked too but

you know i kind of i think everybody does hopefully have a spurt at when it suits them because you you know you've got to choose you know when you're going to put your foot on the accelerator and then you've really got to be yeah committed so my my moment and I you know at university despite being a terrible student I was interested I did you know wrote for the student newspaper all that stuff that you should do and then my big moment was um sitting in again back to Chileile again this time another job as working as a translator by you know by then i worked really hard and i could speak nearly bilingual spanish and i was being interviewed in a studio very like this one by some amazing you

know a journalist in the middle deepest darkest patagonia and i just looked and i was like oh no i get it that's the job that's the job I wanted. And like you, I worked all hours. Because people assume you just arrive on the BBC breakfast sofa like it's a gift. That is not a gift. You know, I worked like all hours of the day, the morning, the night. And, you know, there are worse jobs to do. And I think where we're lucky,

and I can just hope my children have this, if you know what you want to do, that is the best gift ever. It's a blessing blessing isn't it how lucky are we and also to know because then you don't care because you're tired watching some of the young ones now

having to duck and dive and change all of the time because it's so hard to get a foot in the door I really feel for them because yes if you've got that kind of this is the only thing I want to do. And then it doesn't matter. You'll cut your suit. I never get that idiom right.

You cut your cloth to fit your suit or your suit to fit your cloth. Which way round is it? I can't cut either. Okay. So I don't know. Que trajedia. That's the only thing I can say in Spanish.

You're a classicist. I know. You said, what did you say in Spanish? I didn't understand. Well, it's probably not proper Spanish. You're a classicist. I know. I've done lots of things. You said, what did you say in Spanish? I didn't understand. Well, it's probably not proper Spanish. Que tragedia. What a tragedy.

Muy bien. Muy bien. Thank you. I tried to learn Spanish when I went to live in New York in my early 30s and it was very bad. Right.

So we digressed beautifully. We did, yes. We'll rein it back in because we're going to introduce the interview with Wendy Mitchell in a couple of moments. But we have had some fantastic emails. She just wanted to do the one

about the free rabbit. Oh, the rabbit. So the rabbit's made the podcast yesterday, didn't they? Yeah. So the rabbit, I have a rabbit. It's called Bumble. She must be about nine,

but we're slightly unclear. So I'm going to read this email because this is exactly the trajectory of my rabbit's life this is from penny dear fionn louise loved hearing louise's pets for many years i had rabbits who would go free range onto my verge in my suburban street in freemantle um that was not really a choice they started in a hutch brackets like my rabbit and a run which seemed cruel totally agree so then i gave them the run of the back garden. Exactly what I did.

Then the whole garden. And finally, when it became impossible to contain them, they'd just come and go as they liked. The only hazard that I would be woken up by cheery passers-by knocking on my door at an earthly house of the morning, brackets Australian get up early, and telling me my rabbits seem to have escaped.

I'd have to say, get up. That's like exactly what we do. Say thank you. Pretend to be concerned and shoo them back in. This'd have to get up. That's like exactly what we do. Say thank you, pretend to be concerned and shoo them back in. This went on for many years. And then somebody says they started photographing them and posting them on Facebook. And one of the neighbours would say, you know, the rabbits are fine. And then she'd get into trouble. I haven't got into trouble touchwood yet for being an irresponsible pet owner. What if they were caught by a dog? Well, hopefully,

I mean, that's worried me now. Thank you so much so much penny i am worried that she's caught by a dog and then this other lady got really upset because she was getting anxiety because she knew the rabbits were on the loose oh so it got really complicated um anyway the bunnies both had a long exciting lives and eventually died peacefully at home. And honestly, it's the sweetest thing. In my house, you see this little bunny hopping about. And we call her and she comes back at night. It's adorable. Do you let her free roam in the house? No.

Because of the bunny balls? I mean, people do. You know, people, because of the what? Bunny balls. The dogs would clear that up. Would they? Yeah, they would. I know it's unfortunate, isn't it? Okay. The dogs would clear that up. Would they? Yeah, they would. I know it's unfortunate, isn't it?

Okay. But they are Labradors. No, because, and people do have house rabbits. I've never had a house rabbit, but people love their house rabbits. They're really sweet. Because I would be worried

that she would eat the electricity wires. Yeah. But that's the only reason why. I'd be more worried about the pee and the poo. Would you? Yes. But they pee in one corner, rabbits. Hmm.

Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much. You also had two alpacas because I know you want alpacas, don't you? I do want alpacas. Her parents had alpacas, Eddie and Zach,

who brought them great joy and kept the grass down for you. So there you go. Lovely. I cannot wait. This one comes from Emma who says, Hello there. I'm Louise's swimming friend, Emma. You know Emma? you go. Lovely. I cannot wait. This one comes from Emma who says, hello there.

I'm Louisa's swimming friend, Emma. You know Emma? I do know Emma. Hello, Emma. She is a massive fan of the podcast. She knew. I said I couldn't come swimming this week and she goes,

I know that because you're going to be on Times Radio because you heard it on the podcast. That's quite spooky, isn't it? Yeah. And they, I got, do you get adopted by people sometimes? I mean, I adopt rabbits,

not rabbits, but ponies and stuff. But Emma and her other friend, Emma, adopted me while I was swimming. They just basically made friends with me. And now we've been on lots of epic swims together. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. Yes. Brilliant.

But that's interesting that you call that adoption. Yes. Not making friends. There was a power play that wasn't there. Well done, Emma. Emma says, just listening to yesterday's podcast and i'm flabbergasted to find out that louise has too many shetland ponies i can't believe emma doesn't know you have a friend who doesn't know that you've got two shetland ponies literally would that be the first thing you'd say well not

i mean within six minutes of you being in the office we all knew you had two shetland ponies my favorite thing about last night was sending you epic, endless... I did eventually stop sending you Shetland pony pictures because I thought you'd had enough. They're going to go up on Instagram later on today, aren't they? Which one's your favourite, Holly or Muffin? Well, the one that's got the blonde mane.

Oh, that's Holly. Yeah, that's the girl. Yeah, she's gorgeous. Because it does look like she's wearing a comedy wig. She does, doesn't she? And I don't cut their manes or do anything. They're just getting longer and longer at this point. Do have a look at our Instagram.

It's just Jane and Fi, and we will pop up all of those pictures. I had to give Nancy a special extra treat last night because... Because you felt you'd been unfaithful. Very much so. And because, you know, the kids were cooing over shetland ponies and you know i can't have anybody to see my nancy quite right but i do understand it when you say that you absolutely love them because i absolutely love my animals i mean properly you do don't you

love them yeah uh right wendy mitchell came in to see us uh she is a remarkable remarkable woman so if you haven't come across her work yet i I would advise you to look it all up, actually. She was diagnosed with young onset dementia when she was in her 50s. She had a full-time job in the NHS. She was a single mum to two daughters. And she decided that she wanted to share all of her symptoms and all of the things

that she subsequently went through. She started a blog, which was very successful, and then she has written two books with the help of the journalist Anna Wharton as well. And she's just told the world some really interesting and really necessary things about what happens to your mind and to your life when the fog of dementia moves in. So she came in to talk to us yesterday

and I first asked her to describe to me what it's really like when she doesn't have one of her good days. When it's not a good day I feel like I'm handcuffed by both arms to dementia and it decides what I do that day. I always like to be ac mae'n benderfynu beth dwi'n ei wneud y dydd hwn. Rwy'n... Rwy'n bob amser yn hoffi bod yn 51% mewn cyd-drych. Ac pan dwi'n cael dydd anodd, rwy'n amlwg yn cael yn debyg i lawr i 20%. Felly mae'n... Rwy'n ei ddisgrifio fel ffog

yn cysylltu ar y gyrff. Ac mae'n anodd iawn gweithio allan i'r realiti y dydd. Felly, rwy'n rhoi i mewn a chynnal y ddur, neu rwy'n ymrwymo i ffwrdd i fyny yn fy nheulu os ydw i ar ffwrdd. Oherwydd bod yn y tu allan yn ymried ymgysylltu'r dementia. Dyna sut rwy'n hoffi gweld hynny. Ac os oes gen i unrhyw gyfle o ddod allan o'r ffog hwn, byddai'n y tu allan.

A phryd y ffog yn cwrdd â'r diwrnodau hynny, a allwch chi hefyd yn amlwg eich hun y byddai'n byth? Yn oes i'n gallu ddweud wrth fy hun, bydd y bore ddiweddaraf yn well, yna rwy'n gwybod y byddai'n byth. Pan fydd y cyfnod, bydd y meddwl hwnnw ddim yn mynd i fy nghefn, y bydd y bobl eraill yn gwybod bod dementia wedi fy nghymryd. Felly mae hyn yn rhan mawr o'r hyn sy'n ar ôl eich llyfrau,

nid yw'r hyn? Yn esbonio'r un peth yn union i bobl, pan na all eich Wendy ddim gydnabod Wendy, mae'r amser hwn yn rhywbeth nad ydych chi eisiau bod yn hyn. Ie, dydw i ddim eisiau bod yn Wendy. Ie, dwi ddim eisiau bod yn Wendy. Mae llawer o bobl wedi dweud wrthi i mi, efallai y byddwch yn hapus. Ac rwy'n hoffi sgwrsio atyn nhw a dweud, dwi ddim yn bwysig os ydw i'n hapus. Dwi ddim eisiau bod yn hollol hyderus ar bobl eraill, sy'n ymwneud â'r hyn a fyddai'n dod i mewn.

Dwi ddim eisiau i bobl eraill ddewis a ydw i'n gallu mynd i ffordd, pan fyddaf yn bwydo, pan fyddaf yn drin, pan fyddaf yn mynd i'r ysgol gennym ni ddim peth o ddewis dros ein diwethaf. Ac mae'n un peth sy'n sicr yn 100% i'r cyfoeth y byd, ond rydyn ni'n rhoi'r pethau ddim o ddiddordeb, rydyn ni'n rhoi'r pethau ddim o gwerth. give it so little value and you make such a good point in the book that throughout all of our lives we are really encouraged to try and make good choices about our health you know the message from the medical profession from the NHS from government is to constantly gan Lywodraeth yw edrych ar sut i'ch gwneud eich hun yn dda ac wneud pethau sy'n gysylltu â dewisiadau. Ond pan fydd yn ymwneud â chyfrifon ein diwethaf,

nid ydym yn cael y sgwrs hwnnw. Mae'r GIG wedi gwneud swydd mawr o ddod o hyd i'r llyfrau, ond byddant ddim yn mynd i ddod o hyd i llyfrau i ddod. Felly mae'n bob amser yn fy marnu bod hi'n rhywbeth sy'n digwydd i rywun arall. Nid yn digwydd i chi. Yn cofio pan oedden ni'n ysgrifennu'r llyfr, roedd yn fawr, yn fawr i bobl cyn GIG i fyw yn eu tŷ. Roedden ni'n cydnabod y byddai hynny'n digwydd. Ond unwaith y gweithdrefn yw'n dod i'w chyflawni, roedd yn debyg fel a fn cael cyfrifoldeb am ddwyddo. Nid oedd yn digwydd i ni o hyd yn oed. Roedd yn broblem rhywun arall. Felly, rydym ni'n dechrau tyfu i mewn i gymdeithas sy'n negu dieith,

yn hytrach na gwerthu'r hyn y credywodd pobl am eu hunain, diwydiannau da. Rydych chi hefyd yn cymryd rhai statistigau ddiddorol iawn am sut rydyn ni'n meddwl am diwydiannau a sut mae pobl eraill wedi siarad am diwydiannau. Yn adroddiad 2021, Pwyllgorau Cyhoeddus i Dywydiannau a'r Meddwl, a oedd yn ymddangos bod yn cael ei gyllid Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd. Roedd 70% o bobl yn teimlo'n hyfforddol â drafod y pwnc o ddwf, ond dim ond 14% o bobl yn ei gael. Rwy'n gwybod, nid yw hynny'n rhyfeddol? Mae'n ymwneud â phethau fel y dywedodd fy nôl ddiwethaf, roedd yna stigwm o ran dementia. Roedd pobl yn dweud wrthi i mi,

roedd ganddyn nhw fy llyfrau ar eu llyfrgell am flynedd, dwy flynedd, yn dweud wrth mi fod gafodd y llyfrau i fyny ar eu llyfrgell am flynedd, dwy flynedd, y dywedodd un person. Pan oedd hi'n cael y cymorth i'w agor, dechreuodd hi'n meddwl, beth ydw i wedi'i gael yn ystod ei gilydd? Ac fe wnes i ddatrys y rhestr o dementia i'w gael. Wel, rwy'n gobeithio i bobl ymddiried yn un o'r tro diweddol hwnnw a chael fy nghyd-ddychmygu'r ystyr hwnnw sy'n mynd i ddigwydd i'n holl un o ni. Mae pobl yn amgylchu'r gwerth y gwaith siarad. Rydyn ni'n ymddangos i ddim siarad am

diwethaf oherwydd y pwysigrwydd hwnnw, y pwynt nad ydyw' wynebu, ond mae'n ffordd mor allu byw, os ydych chi'n trafod ymwneud â'r diwedd. Mae'n debyg fel os ydych chi wedi'i dynnu'ch cymryd i'ch bywyd gyda'r holl syniadau hyn, ac mae'n gallu byw eich bywyd fel rydych chi ei eisiau, gan gwybod y bydd pobl arall yn cymryd gofal chi mewn y ffordd rydych chi'n ei hoffi yn y dyfodol, ac ar gyfer eich diwethaf. Felly dydw i ddim yn deall… mae pobl yn ei alw'n sgwyliau anodd, ond nid yw'n anodd, oherwydd mae'r gair yn eithaf syml. Maen nhw'n anodd. Ac byddaf yn dweud i bawb, cael y sgyrsiau hynny wrth i chi fod yn dda. Nid pan fyddwch yn ei angen. Oherwydd pan fyddwch

yn ei angen, mae'r ddiddordeb yma amdano. Felly, os ydych chi'n dda, mae'n debygol bod yn gallu gofalu gyda nhw. Felly, gadewch i ni roi rhai ffactiau i mewn i hyn. Beth ddylai fod yn y sgyrsiau hwnnw o ran ymddygiad? Os ydym yn dechrau gan siarad am y

rhan meddwl a'r rhan ffisigol o ymddygiad, beth ddylai pobl ei angen i'w wybod? Bydd pawb yn dweud y bydd ganddo bwysigrwydd parhau, Mae'n rhaid i bawb gael pwer o ddylunio, pwy yw'r cymorth sy'n gorfod ei gael. Peidiwch â chael y ddylunio sy'n gorfod ei gael, pwy yw'r cymorth sy'n gorfod ei gael. Mae pob un ohonynt yn gallu cael y ddylunio sy'n gorfod ei gael i ysgrifennu eich angen iechyd i rywun arall sy'n eich gwybod chi, os ydych yn cael eichael dros bys ac yn y coma. Mae hefyd yn gofalu am eich cyllid. Mae'n gofalu am y cymaint o wahanol gwerth a chyflawni ar gyfer y rhai sydd ar gael. Ac yn y Gwerth Ddyfodol, beth allwch chi ei ddysgu?

Ydy'n siarad am eich gofynion i beidio â'i gosod? Yn ystyr y ddynion ymlaen, yr un peth sydd angen i chi ei wneud yw rhoi'ch gofynion i rywun arall. Dydyn ni ddim angen ysgrifennu'r adnoddau yn ystyr y dynion ymlaen. Dyma'r hyn sy'n gwneud y cymdeithas honno'n amlwg, yw bod ardalau gwahanol yn cynnwys ffyrddiriedol. Mae hyn yn gwneud y cymdeithas hon yn mor amlwg, mae ardalau gwahanol yn cael ffyrdd gwahanol ac mae'r ffyrdd rwy'n ei ddefnyddio i gyhoeddi fy ngwyliau yn cael ei enw'n ffyrdd

ymddiriedol. Nid pob ardal sydd wedi cael ffyrdd ymddiriedol hyd yn oed,. Ond mae hynny'n dweud nad wyf am gael mynediad. Mae hynny'n dweud y cymaint o gofal iechyd. Ond gallwch gael yr holl fformau yn y byd. Os nad ydych chi wedi cael sgwrs gyda'r bobl rydych chi'n mynd i'w ddod â'ch bywyd i, maen nhw'n ddim yn bwysig. Maen nhw'n ddim yn werthus. Mae hyn yn bwynt mor bwysig hef an important point as well, isn't it, Wendy? That you need to tell people not only what you want, but where to find the legal bits and pieces that will enable them to do and to follow through your wishes. So you've got the lasting power of attorney. You've got the respect form. Mae gennych chi'r ffordd ymddygiad. Sut fyddai rhywun yn ystod ystod y cyffrediniaeth,

yn gwybod beth i'w wneud? Byddai hynny bob amser yn ystod y cyfnod? Os yw paramedic yn cael ei alw ar rywbeth, sut fyddai nhw'n gwybod? Os yw paramedic yn cael ei alw i fy mhrofiad, mae gen i sdiccer ar fy môr cynnar sy'n ei ddweud i edrych yn y ffrid. Ac yn y ffrid, mae pobl yn amlwg yn cael eu meddygau,

ond mae gen i fforma fawr fy hun sy'n dweud, nid gadawch i mi unrhyw meddygau. Ond mae hynny'n ymwneud yn unig os oes gen i ganddynt achos y paramedigion yn gysylltiedig â fforma fawr fy hun. oherwydd mae'r paramedigion yn gysylltiedig â'r ffordd i fy nysgu. Os byddwn i wedi cyrraedd fy ngwmni i'r un nesaf ac roedd gen i gynnyrch, byddai'n ffwrddio arna i a'r holl bethau dydw i ddim am eu gwneud yn unig oherwydd nad yw rhywbeth yn cysylltiedig yn y wlad hon. Nid yw rhyw beth yn syml. Rwy'n dal fy mhen gyda mi i gyd, fel y byddant yn llifio drwy bopeth i ddod o hyd i chi, byddant yn dod o hyd i fy nysgrifennu. Ond nid yw'n dda fod yn ymwneud â hynny. Ac yn sicr, nawr rydym yn byw mewn oed digital, gyda data sy'n ar gael, mae'n

ymddangos yn awdurdodol, oherwydd mae llawer o bobl yn rhaid eu troi yn sefyllfaoedd anodd anodd gyda'u rhwydwaith oherwydd y gwahanol y llawr. Ac mae'n ddwylyg yw nid yw'r gwaith yma ond y sgwrsion. Ond mae llawer o paramedig yn diolchgar i bobl resuscitate like I've got my band that says do not resuscitate because the paramedic knows what damage can be done in resuscitation you're listening to an interview with Wendy Mitchell and in her book she speaks to people who express their wish for death not to be viewed as the ultimate sadness. I asked her how she's encouraged the people close to her to think about her death.

Oh goodness, wherever ever I'm having conversations my girls roll their eyes when I say can we have a family meeting because they know it's going to be something random. I've planned, well actually yn cael eu llaw ar eu llaw pan dwi'n dweud, a allwn ni gael cyfarfod teulu? Oherwydd maen nhw'n gwybod y bydd yn rhywbeth rhyfeddol. Rwyf wedi cynllunio, wel, mewn gwirionedd, roeddwn i'n meddwl y byddwn i wedi cynllunio fy mhurfa i'w gael, felly doeddent ddim yn rhaid i mi brynu am hynny. Oherwydd doeddwn i ddim eisiau gwasanaeth, doeddwn i ddim eisiau gwasanaeth. Doeddwn i ddim eisiau rhywbeth fel hynny. Roeddwn i eisiau cael fy mhrofiad, ond yn syth i fy mhrofiad, ac yna gael digwyddiad arbennig. Ond oherwydd ein bod yn siarad, fe wnaeth fy mab hwynau dweud, wel, ond dyna'r rhan o'r broses ymdrinio i mi. Rwy'n am i chi gael cremation that we can all come to. So through talking that made us compromise on what we knew would happen because we discussed it. It wasn't a big deal. I thought I was doing the best for them. In fact, I was taking away part of the grieving process. I think as well one of the things that yn cymryd yn fawr o'r broses ymdrinio. Rwy'n credu hefyd, un o'r pethau a wnaeth i mi feddwl yn eich llyfr

oedd ymgysylltiadau o sut mae dynion yn marw. Ac rydym yn gweld fersiwn ffictsiynau yn sanatig iawn o'r diwethaf, ond mae hynny'n gwerthu o'r fath i sut mae pobl yn marw. Mae pobl wedi bod yn ddiolchgar am rannu eu profiadau â chi, nid ydynt? Felly, rwy'n meddwl os allech chi rannu rhai â ni. Roedden ni'n clywed rhai storïau'n ddramatig iawn gan bobl. Nid wyf yn cofio enwau pobl yn anffodus, ond roedd un ddyn sydd ganddo'n fater wedi marw'n unig yn y garreg gyda'r pip a'r

gwrth-dyn. Wel, dyma Paul Blomfeld. O, roedd hwn yn y men, y M.P. Ie. A sut o'n i'n teimlo ei fod yn rhaid ei wneud hynny oherwydd nad oedd ei ffathreb eisiau profi'r camau o gancer. Mae hynny'n ddangosol, mae pobl yn rhaid i gadael yn unig ac mae'r teulu'n rhaid i gaelangos ei fod yn cael ei wneud. Ond hefyd y teulu o'r Gwlad ysgol. Fe wnaeth hi ddod yn ffwrdd o ddod yn ffwrdd â'r cancer. Roedd ei blant yn gwybod nad oedd hi'n gallu ei ofyn, ond doedd dim beth y gallai nhw ei wneud i atal yr holl trawm a'r stres sydd wedi digwydd o'u llaw. Ac eto, doedd eu mam ddim eisiau hynny. Roedd eu mam eisiau marw cyn ystod ystod hynny. Ond wrth gwrs, nid oes dewis i ni fod yn agored. Felly dyna'r mam Sarah, oedd hi?

Roedd gennych chi cancer esofigol. O, ie. Ac mae'n ddisgrifio'n wirioneddol agoresol. Mae'n wirioneddol agoresol. Ie, o sut y bydde hi wedi marw. Felly mae hynny'n ein cyfweliad, ydy'n ddim? Yn ymwneud â'r marw cymorthus. Ie.

A'r ffordd o gael cymorth dros d diwedd eich bywyd. Ac rydych chi'n glir iawn, gwybodwn, Wendy, bod tyfu cymorth yn rhywbeth sy'n gael agwedd anoddol o ran llaw, ac mae problemau'n gysylltiedig â ni. Ond os oes gennych chi ddewis, beth fyddai'r ffordd gorau y byddwch chi'n credu y gallai llaw ddod i fyny?

Wel, yn y wlad hwn, rydym ni'n ymhellach iawn o lawer o wladau eraill, nad ydym ni hyd yn oed wedi cyrraedd y pwynt dechrau. Ni allwn ni ddod â phobl â chwe mis oed yn byw i ddewis a ydynt yn defnyddio ysgog diadau. Felly mae'n rhaid i ni gael y pwynt dechrau hynny cyn i'r cymdeithas ddechrau bod pobl fel fi â dementia yn gallu dewis ysgog diadau. Ond mae'n digwydd mewn gwledydd eraill. Yn Hyffordd, mae ganddynn cael y cyfrifiad bob 6 mis, a ydych chi'n dal i'w sicrhau eich bod eisiau i hynny ddigwydd, ac ati. Ac rydym yn ymddangos fel byd ariannol

mewn y wlad hon ar y pwnc o fadur. A dyna oherwydd y dwi wedi dod o hyd i fod y rhwydwyr o'r fath yn credu bod y ffynheddol yn cael ei ddynnu i'r cwbl sydd yn marw. Ond mae hynny'n digwydd nawr. Mae pobl yn ysgol gofal sy'n cael eu rhoi ar y rhestr DNR yn awr, heb unrhyw sgwrs wedi'i gael. Mae hynny'n ddewr. Mae hynny'n ddangos bod y cyfnod wedi'i ddefnyddio. Mae hynny'n ddangos. Ac... O, rydw i wedi gofio beth ydych chi wedi gofyn i mi. Felly, y cwestiwn mawr, rwy'n credu, Wendy, yw, os oedd cael ysgogu yn cael ei wneud yn y wlad hon,

beth fyddai'r gwahaniaeth wedi ei wneud i chi nawr, yn eich bywyd cyffredinol? Byddwn i'n byw am lawer mwy o amser oherwydd roeddwn i'n gwybod fy mod i wedi cael y claws gadael. Mae'n debyg i'r wlad yma, mae llawer o bobl yn gyfrifol am y potiwnau magig, rwy'n credu y byddan nhw'n ei enwi, ac maen nhw'n cael y potiwnau magig yma yn eu hanfod, ond maen nhw'n dewis i beidio â'i ddefnyddio oherwydd maen nhw'n cael y dewis hwnnw. Nid ydym wedi cael unrhyw dewis. Nid ydym wedi gallu cymryd yr autonomi i ddewis beth yw diwethaf da i ni. Ond y debat arall yw'r ffordd o ddibynnu ar ofn, yn ymwneud â gofal paletig. Mae'n dweud, wel, mae'n rhaid i arian arno ar gofal paletig i wneud hynny'n perffaith.

Wel, wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid. Ond nid yw'n rhaid i'r cydweithrediad fod yn unig. Rwy'n gwrthfawrogi dewisau pobl erailldd byth yn dewis ysgolion, ond rwy'n gofyn iddyn nhw gwerthfawrogi fy nhwys. Felly pan mae rhywun yn dweud wrthych chi, fel mae Baroness Finlay yn ei ddweud pan fyddwch yn siarad â hi, ac mae hi'n eistedd yn yr Aelodau Llywodraeth, roedd hi'n ddoddwr ac mae hi'n annog ysgolionw. Pan mae hi'n dweud, wel Wendy, efallai y byddai triniaeth yn dod o'i gael yn ystod y 6 mis nesaf, a fyddai'n eich galluogi i fyw byw bywydau llawer fwy iechyd. Felly byddai ymddygiadau i'w marw'n cael ei ddwyn oddi wrthych chi. Ond byddaf yn marw, nid wyf yn gwybod hynny. Rwy'n hoffi dewis pan rwy'n ei eisiau, nid pan rwy'n credu y bydd rhywbeth yn dod ymlaen. Mae'n debyg bod pobl yn canolbwyntio ar y cyfnodau magig yma o hwyl. Rwy'n credu y byddwn i'n cyfeirio rhywun, yn y cair ymlaen sy'n chwarae'r

piano a'i gynnal i bawb yn ffodd am, dwi ddim yn gwybod, un awr neu ddiwrnod. Dwi'n dweud wrthi, ond beth am yr holl 23 awr? Byddai wedi dewis cael pobl eraill yn ymddiriedol ar bobl eraill, bod yn hyderus ar bobl eraill. Byddai wedi dewis bod yno, byddai wedi dewis bod yn hyderus ar bawb. Ac os byddai wedi dewis, yna mae hynny'n wych.

Rwy'n hapus iawn amdano. Ond nid yw'n dewis rwy'n ei wneud. Dydw i ddim am gael foment magig ar gyfer hir. Gade eisiau cael un awr o fomenti magig bob dydd. Gadewch i ni siarad am un foment magig sy'n dod i'ch gilydd. Pan wnaethoch chi ddod i mewn heddiw, rydych chi wedi gweld y llaw, y peth cyntaf, rydyn ni i gyd yn gwneud, ac rydych chi'n mynd i'r ysgol i lawr un o'r adeiladau hyn o'r tu ôl.

Yn sicr, mae fy mhrofiad oedd fy m ymddygiad, fel y ddweud y ganddyn nhw, ar gyfer ymddiriedaeth, yw'n ddiweddol. Ac rydw i'n mynd i ddod i'r gwaith yn ffwrdd, nid yn unig yn ffwrdd, ond yn ffwrdd. Felly rydw i'n mynd i fynd i fyny fy hun ar y top o'r adeilad o gwaith. Dydw i ddim yn gwybod beth yw ei enw poper. Rwy'n siŵr ei fod yn gweithio â enw poper. Gadewch i ni ddod â'r enw poper, felly beth bynnag yw ei enw poper, nid yw'n bhaid cael enw'r dynion cywir. Gadewch i ni ddod â'r sgwrs bwyd neu beth bynnag sydd yn enw'r dynion cywir, nid yw'n bwysig. Ac nid wyf yn gallu cymryd cyfnod i ddechrau ar y tŷr o'r adeilad hwnnw a ffynnu fel byd. A ydy'n rhywbeth mor cliched i ddweud bod yna ffync bach o ddwyloedd y mae eich dementia wedi'i roi i chi. Yn bendant, mae wedi rhoi i mi ffyrdd mawr o ddifrifolwch. Ond byddai hynny'n ymwneud â'r argwymau

y byddwn ni fel cymdeithas ddylai pobl fel chi aros gyda ni'n hynod o amser. O, ond mae'n dod yn ôl i ddewis. Mae'n dod yn ôl i'r meddwl, cymryd dyn a dymun a dymun eich bod chi'n dymun eich cwtio sydd wedi bod gyda chi ers 15 mlynedd. Ond mae'n chi sydd am gael y cwtio.

Mae'r cwtio'n brofiad ac rydych chi'n gwybod mai'r peth mwyaf gwael is but it's you that wants to keep the dog you know the dog is suffering and you know that the kindest thing is to let them go let them die why can't we have that same thought for humans wendy mitchell and that book is called One Last Thing she has written two other books as well so if you're interested in the subject and the subject is life basically isn't it then do look up her work because she's just remarkable actually I really really really enjoy just being in her company for half an hour actually I think her honesty is really touching just not to try and turn everything back to things that would you know be of interest to you louise but it's one of the reasons why you do so much exercise and the kind

of high intensity endurance exercise to make yourself feel kind of invincible um it's not to make well there's lots of things. It's because I enjoy it. And I know that some points I don't enjoy it. I think I get a lot of, the benefits are immeasurable, both kind of psychologically and physically as well. And it sounds really silly, but I'm stronger literally every day.

Like you've seen the silly bag I'm carrying around. I'm strong and I can carry that because I go into the I can carry that because I go into the gym so that makes me stronger physically but mentally the resilience I've learned through endurance sport is utterly irreplaceable and immeasurable in that I you know I you know you call yourself it sounds really pretentious doesn't it to call myself an endurance athlete and be really clear here I can run or whatever it is for a long time I'm not fast but it means that when times are tough I can dig in in a way that perhaps other people might not I'm not saying everybody can't do that but it makes me

really resilient and there's lots of points when I'm for example really nervous I've got stuff that I can go back I call it my like backpack of superpowers I can think about something I've done like yesterday I was nervous yesterday and I thought do you know what it's fine I've jumped off a ferry in the dark I can probably talk to Fi on the radio so it gives me lots of different gifts in different places. Does it do you think change your attitude to ageing and to the vulnerability of chance because Wendy's whole life has in a sense been devastated

through no fault of her own so I don't know how fit she was before she had her diagnosis it wouldn't have made very much difference what she had done previously she has got a terrible illness, you know, which can strike anybody. Chance. Yeah. I mean, I think what it's difficult,

isn't it? But from my point of view, I just think until that things happens to you, and you don't know when it's going to happen, do you? You don't know, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. If I can live my kind of best life before that then hopefully it will make a difference do you sort of mean so and it and it sounds really silly but sort of looking forward you know I want to live a long life I think we all probably do and and a healthy life and I do know that what I the investment I put in now with strength etc will probably mean that when I'm 80, I can still run a little bit or whatever it is.

So I do sort of think about this sort of future investment, but you can't chance, you know, you never know when that's going to happen. I think also what Wendy's current book is about is about dying and about having some kind of say in the way that you die. And for her, with a really severe terminal condition, having some kind of control over when you die.

And I wonder what will happen in our generation with societal views towards assisted dying. Yeah. Because we have been so encouraged and told that we can be in control of so many things yeah i wonder you know i think whether we will accept the status quo at the moment which is that we have no real control or say in how our life ends i wish i could remember um the name of the person i'm about to talk about but i did a conference a few years ago which was a medical conference and there was

a lady who talked about death in that conference and I will have to look it up but was it Dr. Catherine Mannix? It was and she talks doesn't she about how unaccustomed to death we are how removed we are and how actually you know it is a process that we will all go through and perhaps we should be much more educated about it to help us in those moments when our loved ones are dying or we're in a position where we know things are going to end um and she she was just brilliant she was brilliant at that yeah she is remarkable i think it's just such a changing conversation actually and and another one of wendy's points and it's one of katherine mannix's main points

as well is just to do exactly this to actually talk about well i just that's that's why wendy's amazing yeah because we don't know those journeys do we and i'm sure we all are you know and see things changing for people around us and to hear somebody's story so that you can understand perhaps when that's happening to a loved one or yourself, is really powerful. And also really brave and admirable. Yeah, totally. I think she's just... Thanks, Wendy. Yeah, and she's so funny as well.

And so she's doing this incredible thing. She's abseiling down the cheese grater. The great big... We can see it from here, can't we? What, that thing there? Yes. That thing. She's abseiling down that.

I mean, she's a legend really that's what you got to do yeah uh so wendy's book is called uh one last thing uh do grab a copy if you can the book that we're reading for our book club is called fresh water for flowers and it's by valerie perrin p-e-r-R-I-N. We might take some more pictures of that and pop them up on Insta in case I'm speaking too fast or quite possibly my French accent is a bit odd. And Louise will be back tomorrow. And I've just started reading your book, Fearless,

so we will talk about that. And I think that concludes. I'm doing shuffle. Can you shuffle? I'm really good at that. Because you're really good. Okay, here she comes right that's it

goodbye everybody see you tomorrow beautiful beautiful well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run. Or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.

Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know, ladies. A lady listener. I'm sorry.