Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Propelling a barge with Arnold Schwarzenegger and some caramelised houmous (with Ellie Reeves MP)

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Forget his party, your party, Melania’s party - this is an Off Air party! Welcome… Jane and Fi cover the practicality of the negligee, funeral cruising, far-fetched Valentine’s Day promo, stamp prices, and Stacey Solomon’s pool. Plus, Solicitor General Ellie Reeves MP discusses the expansion of the Victims’ Right to Review scheme. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Tuesdays. No, gosh, I've got all my days wrong. No, it's Thursday, just because you've done a two-day week. It's Thursdays, well-cast. Although admittedly busy with some quite important things on the other two days. We'll let you off. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Now, hang on, I did notice, I just want to bring it to the attention of the hive that I went past my local dog grooming parlour this morning. And they are going big on Valentine's Day. And although they've done a beautiful sort of decoration for the window, with two dogs covered in hearts and looking lovingly at each other. You don't want to encourage that. But what's that got to do with Valentine's Day?

Celebrate the feast day of St. Valentine and a celebration of romantic love by having your dog groomed. I don't really... Is nothing immune to the marketing possibilities of Valentine's Day? Well, let's chuck it out to the hive and see whether we can find the Valentine's equivalent of Christmas bleach.

There must. I bet there is. Well, I would kind of say the dog. grooming parlour is adjacent to that. Yeah. I always think in supermarkets and it goes back to the aisles, doesn't it? How far can Valentine's Day or any other holiday opportunity spread into the aisles? Yeah, I don't. Cilopes everywhere.

Back in our day, it would literally just be some boxes of confectionery would have a red heart on, wouldn't they? Yeah. And it would be your opportunity to buy. What would your favourite have been? Terry's all gold? Oh, I think Black Magic. Black Magic. Yeah.

I didn't really like Black Magic. just seemed to be a little too adult of me. Slightly funereal box. It was, it was a little bit. There was a hint at sophistication. Yeah, but it was a bit too, it was a bit off-putting, I think.

I thought, I'm not quite sure what's inside that. I don't think it's for me as a, you know, not yet teenager. Did you at your school, yours was an old girl school, wasn't it? Okay, so how... We didn't mark Valentine's Day. I genuinely don't think they thought

lesbians had been invented. I mean, who knows? Perhaps people did exchange Valentine's at my secondary school, but I wasn't ever fortunate enough to receive one. But did you not have a kind of anticipation and then a comparison on Valentine's Day as to who had actually got a card? Who had got a card?

Who had got a card? We were just in awe of anyone who knew a boy. Yeah. I mean, that was the big thing. Obviously, brothers didn't count. So... Good. Yeah, absolutely.

That's always has been wrong. and very much still is. But yes, there would be chatter on the way to school past the... I can actually envisage those conversations now, trundling to school past the graveyard. Always a beautiful moment. And yes, and you just have to lie. If you hadn't got one, you'd just sit, you've got one.

I mean, no one was actually going to come around and check, were they? Well, in a girls' boarding school. Okay. You know, everything, yep, everything is scrutinized. And there was just such a... There were definitely a couple of people who sent cards to themselves or had... Nothing wrong with that fee? Cards, you know, sent to them kind of duplicitously or whatever.

And, you know, looking back on it, you just think, oh, that's just so... That's just so sad. I never got a card. But I was a day girl in a boarding school, so I suppose I could have massively pretended or whatever. But the whole thing was just so riddled with anxiety and... And comparison. Well, our entire adolescence was riddled with them. These young people today think they invented it.

Nonsense. But I don't think it's the same now because everybody's just over-communicating, aren't they? So I don't think the pressure of have I got a Valentine's cut me for a start, nobody can afford the stamp. But I think it's, I think that's gone. I don't think it's quite the same as it was back then. No, it wouldn't be.

I mean, I know it's a tired old thing, but I did buy eight first-class stamps and a card yesterday. and there's barely only changed from 20 quid. I mean, this is crazy. You're right. I mean, you'd have to be really in love with someone to afford a first-class stamp at the moment. Yeah, £1.70.

Bloody hell. Crazy times. Very crazy times. But if you do get a Valentine first class, please. I mean, you are so lucky. Wow. So lucky. That's the equivalent of a platinum ring, isn't it, these days?

It really is. And if you are going to celebrate the big day by taking your dog for a thoroughly good grooming, Let us know about that. Does Nancy go to the groomer? No, so sometimes I've taken her to a dog groomer to have her claws clipped because I'm a little bit screamish about that. And I have tried buying lots of different things,

including the diamond-tipped rechargeable tool, which I think I did mention this on the podcast before. If somebody came round who didn't know me and interrupted me of an evening as I'm polishing the tips of my life, greyhounds claws with a diamond tool that hums, I think possibly they might need an explanation of what's happening in my sitting room. It's very odd. Yes.

Well, I'm sure they wouldn't accuse you of eccentricity. Actually, the Daily Mail today has got a full-page article entitled, Is this proof Donald Trump could be losing his marbles? Is it a big article? It's quite a big article before saying, why is it taking people so bloody long? Well, it's taken other people a very long time. We've never ever moved.

from the line. No. That he was a difficult man to watch within the parameters of normality and he remains that. I was listening to Times Radio Breakfast this morning and they were chortling away, rightly so, at the fact that the Melania film is now out in cinemas.

Now, will you be able to resist that? I think I won't. I think I'll have to, out of curiosity, go and see it. But in a cinema in Islington, at the 3.30 launch performance, one ticket's been sold one who are you

one and as one of their commentator said it's probably Jeremy Corbyn he's got some time on his hands figuring out whether it's his party her party your party or my party it's Melania's party today I will go and see it out of curiosity

won't you? I think I might watch it from the comfort I'm getting a new sofa actually I am getting a new sofa next week and I think I might make that one of my first appointment of views Okay. Yeah. So, but then that makes, that makes us mugs, doesn't it?

Because if we're watching it... Then we're giving in, aren't we? We're giving Jess a... Jeff a tick. Because it's funded by Jeff Bezos. Yes, exactly. But I can't pretend I don't use his services because I do. But the whole...

Now people are cottoning onto the idea that Donald Trump might be a trifle more than mildly eccentric. I mean, I... Let's just keep mentioning the fact that he riffed on the size of a dead golfer's genetation. during a pre-election stump speech. It's just, sorry, Fee, but that to me doesn't scream, I've got a grip on my sanity.

No. And we took the speech live from Davos, didn't he? Oh, yeah, yeah. Last Monday, where he spent almost as much time deriding the previous Swiss president who had phoned him up about tariffs, and he went off on some of a long round. repetitive. She'd been repetitive and annoying.

Repetitive and annoying, Donald. But he spent almost as much time talking about her as he did about Greenland, the key issue at Davos. But to our point that we keep on referring back to as well about what all of this is obscuring, there was also at Davos a debate, a speech and a debate

between Demisisarvis, the chief head honcho, Uber brain, deep mind. Okay, yeah. And the boss of Anthropic and apparently it was just a really, really interesting and chilling and superb

and relevant discussion about whether or not AI is going to eat itself and therefore eat us. Now these are two guys who know more about AI than anybody on the planet and the boss of... I've got it here.

Anthropic fee. The boss of Anthropic has written an open letter which is terrifying to read but also really really necessary for us to read and he does say you just haven't comprehended yet what might happen if these large language learning models start to create things in their own image because it'll be bonkers they won't get it right at all so all of that stuff you know we all sat and listened to the orange one firing off his you know self-congratulatory manifesto about what he'd done in america boy did that need fact-checking

as well. And it didn't, you know, we didn't have time to talk about something so blam and important to us and to our kids and to our grandchildren. And, you know, we're part of journalism. So it's on us as well. But it annoys me because we have to take Trump. We have to just in case he says, and tomorrow I've got the codes and I'm going to blow the world up. You know, that's, that's the cliff edge that we're all slightly heading towards. So I honestly you don't know what we can do about that apart from, definitely try and talk about the other stuff as much as we talk about him. Thanks for your emails.

Jane and Fee at times.com. Now to butter dishes. Yes. Let's move on. No, I'm with you. I just find sometimes you just think, oh, okay. But that's why people listen to us, because we offer something a little different.

And let's bring in Jackie, shall we? Oh, now which one's Jackie? Well, after, she says, after my husband died in 2014, I no longer had to worry about his high cholesterol so I swapped from soft margarine back to real butter which I needed to leave out of the fridge overnight so that I could make my sandwich to take to work

so Jackie lost her husband but welcomed the butter dish and indeed butter back into her life I mean I do remember actually my mum when she found out about cholesterol no seem to remember it was the 70s butter vanished from our house because she was worried that my dad would have a heart attack

and so butter just went overnight and we had flora instead and it was a grim old day and butter I'm happy to say has made a comeback so that's wonderful so it happens in all kinds of households anyway Jackie says I bought a butter dish which was just the right size for a one person household it held about half a pack of butter in 2020 I dropped it on the tiled floor

and it didn't survive most of the shops were closed so I went online and searched small butter dish I found exactly what I wanted at a reasonable price and decided to buy two I tell you what this is planning so I always had one to use if the other was in the dishwasher a big box was delivered

as I started to pulling out loads of paper packaging I began to think the box was empty but I eventually found the butter dishes I've attached a photo showing that what I'd ordered next to my current normal size butter dish it only holds enough butter for one slice of toast You've got to be it. You've got a tidler there, Jackie.

But I really like that. I mean, because you could take a little chunk of butter out of the butter in the fridge and just have it waiting for you in the morning. It'd be lovely. Yes, I mean, it is an absolute, it looks like a butter dish from a doll's house. But I think next to it is another butter dish, a standard size. A normal size. But it is amazing how we were just saying in the office earlier

that a lot of people seem to have had a butter dish for Christmas. Yes, that is weird. The problem with our butter dish for Christmas is that it's got Christmas thingies on it. It's got holly and berries. It simply can't be used the rest of the year, can it? Well, I don't know, because our very kind of fun-loving ceramic dishes

that have got pineapples and mangoes on, we're using those all through the Christmas season. Oh, are you? Yeah. You have tropical fruit on display at Christmas? No, you do. Well, I think that's extraordinary. Oh.

I have no interest in the tropics at Christmas. Jackie also goes on to say she's talking about her dad's funeral. She had to organise it on her own because her brother was terminally ill at the time. Oh, blimey, Jackie, you've been through it. It was there a great comfort that lots of people who love the person who died

took the trouble to attend. The caterer laid on a lovely spread, although we realised afterwards that she got the order mixed up with another one and did provide a delicious tea bread full of walnuts. when I had specified could it be a nut-free buffet because my nephew is highly allergic. Luckily, he's a personal trainer, his body is a temple, and he wouldn't go anywhere near the sweet stuff.

Okay, well, that is a relief. So there were no fatalities there, thank goodness. Two old ladies came along. That's how Dad used to describe them, and it was a bit of a cheek because he was 87 himself, she says. Dad used to give them a lift to U3A meetings until they were no longer able to get in and out of his mini. and that is a point at which travelling, I've got a mini and my dad can just about get in to the mini he does really struggle to get out of it

it's so difficult it's just because it's low isn't it how are things in the Skoda Monte Carlo well it's... Is it good for the elderly? It's affecting the posture of an SUV so it's quite high up it's not an SUV but it's

pretending. So that might actually be easier oh it's loads easier yeah yeah and I recognise one of the ladies, a lovely retired teacher, because we'd met when she visited Dad in hospital. But the other was dressed in a rather eccentric style and kept her hat on indoors. I don't think they knew anybody else at the funeral. They piled their plates high with a full meals worth of food

and simply sat in a corner eating together. Afterwards, other guests did wonder whether they were gate crash as well. You could get away with it. You could actually get away with it at a funeral buffet because somebody will think that somebody else knows you and not everybody knows who's connected to who. So I imagine there are some people who simply cruise around. Yeah, absolutely.

Pile their plate high and sit with their mate in the corner. Why not? You know what, why not? And you're in the final years of being able to say, if challenged, you know, how do you know so and so? Yeah. I did national service with them. You could just get away with that.

Well, yes, you can. Of the male variety. My dad did it, but you know, he's 92. they're not going to be around much longer the National Service lot. No, but you would be able to just say that. Nobody would challenge you. Yeah, because they wouldn't know. I'm going to say, actually, when I'm in my dotage

and I'm floating around being an excess funeral guest, I was in the suffragettes with her. Nobody would challenge that. Well, the thing is, you can make claims in your later life that you're right. People simply won't be able to take issue with. Well, you could just say it was in the girl guides with her. Yeah, oh yeah, well, I certainly could.

When was that in my 30s? At which point, everyone just walks away. They're absolutely fascinated. Bien avu, says Joanna, I've been listening to you from where I live in France for several years now, and you bring much joy to my life. But, dot, dot, dot. I was disappointed to hear your comments about the winners of the French B&B show having to close every 90 days due to Brexit. I'm a self-employed handholder. This involves

helping non-French-speaking anglophones who either live here full-time or own second homes here to navigate the very complicated French administrative system. Anybody wanting to move to France permanently to run a business would simply need to apply for an entrepreneur visa from the UK before they make the move. I say simply, but there is obviously a lot of paperwork involved and a need to hit the ground running and earn a living from the outset. However, it is perfectly feasible. Please, please set the record straight. There is a link to my website below,

so you can see what I do if you fancy aganda. I'm just going to read that out because I think probably lots of people listening would like a bit of aganda. So shayvoo-property services.com is where you can find. Joanna. So Joanna, this is her job.

It's her profession. So, yes, I mean, she's helping people who want to move to France and understand what it is that you need in order to be able to make that move. so that makes perfect sense because I don't think Channel 4 would have given away a bed and breakfast

to people who couldn't actually run the bed and breakfast I mean there would certainly be an epic fail of due diligence if that had happened there'd be a meeting after that I think there might be a meeting just out of interest the couple in the place in the sun last night they actually bought it I saw that

and I didn't think they were going I thought it was the worst filler I didn't like it why'd you do it they were so pleased were they really chump they just couldn't wait. They gave, didn't they put in a bit about 10,000 pounds above the asking price to get it? They went right to the top of their budget for something that, you're right, just wasn't, it wasn't in my top four.

No, anyway. It had a very odd shape swimming pool. Oh. I know that you can get oblong swimming pools, lap pools, kidney-shaped ones, but that one, I don't know, what shape would you describe that us? Do you know, I think a swimming pool, the home swimming pool, it's got to be the most overrated. I mean, I do have one. I'm here to tell you they're just a

it's such a difficult thing to maintain and so expensive no I don't know why anybody bothers just go in the sea Well they were in Valencia It's inland Oh is it sorry Well there we are

That does to be fair That answers one of my queries About last night's edition Of that seminal channel 4 show Yeah I mean I think it's so important In this country Has been a challenging option Until now

We have some pretty tropical months Global warming, I guess. But I still think it's a triumph of optimism over reality getting a swimming pool in Britain. We don't kid yourselves. Even now, you're only looking at two or three weeks a year, aren't you really? I think if you heat it, you could go all the way through, or you could have a little cold swimming club. People come round.

Yes, okay. So the lovely Stacey Solomon and her husband, whose name I'm temporarily forgotten, but it doesn't matter. Oh, the chap with the slightly challenging hair. Swash. Is that him? It is. What's challenging about it?

Well, it's sort of... No, it just kind of... It's got these sometimes quiff, positive, other times, not so. Okay. I hadn't noticed that at all. They've got a cottage, haven't they? It was a very big cottage.

I think cottage isn't quite the right term for it. But anyway, it's where they do their reality TV show from with all of their hundreds and thousands of children. They seem lovely, actually. And I hope the kids are all right with being filmed. They opened their swimming pool to everybody in the village when it's hot. Isn't that a lovely thing to do?

That's what I'd do. You and I, we both open our gardens to the public. Every year. Yeah, bring your own poo bags and help me clear up. Come and lounge on our fake grass. Oh, no, the fake grass is gone, hasn't it? My fake grass is gone. To be replaced by?

I've gone for hard standing. Okay. I have. Do let us know what you think about that. Yeah, and please don't get annoyed with me because I couldn't put down grass because it simply doesn't grow. There's a really dark, shady, kind of grungy bit.

Oh, you don't, you took a apologise to me. At the back of the garden. Yes, terrible. I'm afraid I have got paving. It's not very good paving either. It was done by someone who can make... Oh, you can describe us. I don't have forgotten about that.

Oh, they might as well have had a van saying Dickie Dodge and sons. And I just... Trust us at your peril. Oh. And, okay, here's a quandary for you. I still didn't put up a really nice... Rasty review about them. Because I just, I thought maybe they were having an off decade.

I just couldn't do it, Jane. I just couldn't, because all of the other reviews were good, are you fake? And I just thought, I don't want my name up there. And I couldn't quite work out how to get my name off the thing anyway. And I just thought, oh, just leave it. Just walk away from it. Just walk away from it. Don't do it.

So you haven't. So I haven't. And then I ended up feeling bad because I thought, well, if I'd read a badge review, then I wouldn't have employed them. And so I don't know. Do you write bad reviews of people? Well, I've got a moral quandary myself, actually, interestingly. Would you call that a moral quandary?

Well, you're kind of slightly angry with yourself, and I understand it. But also, you don't want to... I'm reading between the lines here, I worry that you might be concerned that you might offend them, and that perhaps wouldn't be necessarily the right thing to do. And they know where I live. Exactly. And I live, you know, on my own with my kitties.

Well, that's why I think you're probably being quite sensible. I went to give blood a couple of weeks ago, and for whatever reason. Sometimes... Well, but it didn't work. It was apparently too dehydrated, or sometimes my veins are not as prominent. Sorry, I didn't know why that's funny.

Sometimes they can't access the vein or whatever. I'm very pale, so you look at that, you see. It's very difficult to find. Anyway, I couldn't, they couldn't get it going. So they said, oh, you'll just have to come back another day and don't drink so much coffee. I did, I had two coffees that morning. Apparently that's not very good.

So, anyway, they sent me on my way, but yesterday, when I got back from work, they'd sent me a certificate and a badge thanking me for my 10 donations. And I just, my daughter said, well, you can't wear that badge because you've only given nine times. So I said, God, that's actually true.

So for now, I've put the badge in the drawer. Well, I won't be wearing it, but I will re-book. Okay. Yeah. If you want, Eve and I could just do a little on-site draining. Later. Okay. We'll find a compass.

Yeah. God. I just have a go. I just have a go. Thank you very much. And then we'll pop it in the post. Okay, the little file. Well, that's horrible.

That is horrible. Anyway, but, no, because had I been able to give that day, I'd have been thrilled by the badge. And you would have worn it? I would have stuck it on little anorac or something. Why not? Okay. Yeah, but anyway, I'll have to just rebook and get going again.

I have never seen anybody wearing. I've donated blood ten times bad. Okay, well I'll bring it in. When I've done the donation, I'll bring it into work. We'll do a show and tell with it. Okay, that's exciting time. I look forward to in 2026, everybody. This one comes in from Liz. You are going to get the stiff guy yoga book. We're sending it on the way, and you're absolutely right. Eve is very good on the podcast. That's not the only email we've had about Young Eve. We're not reading any more out. Oh, should we announce the YouTube channel? You're all heart. why don't you announce the YouTube channel? Well that's it, we've done it.

It's now available and all our 330 interviews will be on our YouTube channel. You've got to explain what the 330 interview means because people aren't listening to this at 3 o'clock waiting for the 330 interview. So complicated. Why do we ever start this? Fia and I have always, we've danced around the periphery of visualization for quite some time now and we keep putting just minor obstacles in the way just to do like that. I've managed to put it off for four years. It's here now, kids.

We always knew the stage coach at some point would have to roll into town. But anyway, we've done everything we can to delay this. But it is inevitable. So the 3.30 interviews are done during our Times Radio show, Monday to Thursday, 2 o'clock till 4. What time do they go out? Well, they go out at around 3.30. And that just me... Why did I start?

this. Oh yeah. So these interviews are going to be on the YouTube channel and they're usually with... Well, they're the ones that you hear in the podcast. Yes, that's it. Yeah. I knew there was a reason. So sometimes you'll know what to expect. Sometimes it's an author, sometimes some

sort of actor. Today's interview actually is with the... And it'll be a serious conversation. It's with Ellie Reeves, who is the Solicitor General. But you will get... You'll know what to expect because you listen so you understand that we have a real variety of guests on the pod

and indeed on the radio show and then coming soon you might even be able to see us doing one of our email specials on the YouTube. We're allowed to say that we're having a studio put together. We visited the studio yesterday and it's down in the

bowels of News UK headquarters and we've got everybody, don't be jealous we've got a fire. We have. Which looks very good on the screen but then when we went into the studio it's just a We couldn't believe it. We actually don't have a roaring log fire, IRL. But that's a good thing because we're not exposing ourselves or anybody else.

There's some dangerous particles. So that's good. We've got fake flowers. We've got some nicely angled chairs and some low-level lighting. And off we go. Do you know what's going to be really funny? And you're just all so welcome to laugh at us doing this. Jane and I are long in the tooth, aren't we, in terms of being in radio studios?

Yeah, so we don't know how to behave. How long ago did you first sit in a radio studio and actually do a show? Oh, 1987. I can't do the maths. So 39 years? Shortly to be 40 years. Yeah, 39 years at the moment. Yeah.

Oh my God. No wonder I don't get nervous. And mine would have been 1992, which would be... 1992 to 2002 to 20 minutes, so 34 years. Okay. I can't change my habits. Don't change. But it does mean that you and I, you bite your fingernails.

I tend to play with the back of my hair. Neither of us can do the smiling for television look, where you're just permanently, permanently on the verge of being gifted every opportunity known to mankind of joy in your life. I just don't have that face in me. Well, there's that thing that television presenters do where there's a special face they pull when the other one is talking.

That? Well, I'm absolutely fascinated by everything you say. Yeah, I can't do it. No, I can't do that either. So it's going to be quite good fun to watch. It should be hilarious, everybody. And listen, we are doing it in the spirit of exactly as fear is described because, you know, that's the way forward. Yeah, so we're not going to suddenly...

There's a funny kind of posture with Eve. She wants us to get on with it, doesn't she? That won't be starting until March. just in case anyone's going to the YouTube channel today looking for this. Yeah, they won't find it. They will not find it. No.

I think it's fair to say that Eve's been relatively patient in the build-up to this, but you could probably tell in her voice there that she is sometimes close to the edge. I tell you what, we just keep on having to be instructed, don't we? It's like we just can't hold on to this thought as if it doesn't bother us. But it will bother us because there'll be some terrible clips

of you and I just looking so Mardi. Right, future proofing a kitchen. Now, this is just daft. So we both love our pets. You have an indoor cat litter tray. I don't love my pets enough to have that. Well, it's only because she won't go outside. Okay. Would you ever do this? This one comes in from Sarah, who says it's been nearly 10 years since our wonderful cat Clyde died. I'm very sorry about that. He was a rescue cat from Bath Cats and Dogs Home. As soon as my husband went into the cat enclosure, Clyde let him. out a happy chirp and made a beeline for his lap where he curled up and enjoyed a nap we like to say Clyde had us from meow that's a very good Jerry Maguire thing isn't it but the main point that I want to take

from Sarah's lovely email is the thing that she has found which is an inbuilt cat litter tray that you could have in your bespoke kitchen isn't this amazing so that your cat can basically if you imagine that bonquette seating that people like to have around their kitchen table. Yes.

You could have, in that kind of block of wood that's holding all the seating up, a cat flap that then takes the cat inside. Oh, so the cat manipulates it itself? Yes, and it can go and do its business. It doesn't tell you it wants to go, and then you open the door. And it does all of its litter scraping and all of that kind of stuff.

The big litter tray is held within the wooden box, and you just lift up the top of the wooden box when you want to clean out the cat litter tray. And thus the smell is enclosed. and doesn't particularly linger. No, see, this is my point. I watched the little video that was sent by Sarah because I'm not sure.

There's a certain pungency to cat litter, isn't there, when it's dirtied, which I don't think would be disguised or contained within a wooden box. So I think you would be having your dinner and there'd be a little scratch, scratch, followed by a terrible whiff. So I think it's a lovely,

idea, but I don't think it would work. When you say it's a lovely idea, my jury's did very much out. Okay. But thank you for sending it, Sarah. And I mean, Sarah doesn't make these things. She'd just come across it. She did also want to draw our attention to something too.

Fee mentioned how enjoyable it was to recently watch a TV show at the cinema. Kinema, actually. Richard Osmond often discusses this as a great way for cinemas to boost income whilst providing viewing experiences, audiences would enjoy. Let's have an off-air, Rest is Entertainment Joint Campaign.

Let's have it. Anne says, I'm listening to the podcast from my bed this morning. I woke up early and I just couldn't get back to sleep. My watch thingy tells me how long I've slept, and it says I've only managed five hours, four minutes. It's disappointing, but that's another story. Have you heard about these watches that tell you about the quality and length of your sleep? Yes.

I actually think they make you feel quite neurotic about the hospital. whole business and it might be just easier to go old school and just go to sleep. What do you think? I would completely agree with you. I think pathologising everything, a bad night's sleep, a good night's sleep, the bits when you wake up, the bits that you don't, I think it's just adding a load to your waking hours. Yeah, I think it's a strain you don't need. I mean, maybe, I take, hands point. It is a bit grim if you've only, because she's already slightly obsessing about the fact she's only had five hours, four minutes sleep, and that's getting to her,

and it might make the next night's sleep even more testing. But, and Eve, I don't know whether or not you want to contribute anything to this conversation. You've had some bouts of insomnia. Is it helpful? Because there's a flip side to that, isn't there? That actually if you have a device that tells you that you've had a decent number of hours,

it probably makes you worry less during the day because you can feel that you've not slept at all with insomnia, but you probably have. I also do have an Apple Watch. And when I got it, I was doing the exact same thing. And it just became exactly what you said, too stressful, that it would tell me, if I felt that I'd slept quite well and it would tell me that I actually only got three and a half hours or whatever,

it was just disappointing. And also, I think at times, I know that I would be awake, but I'd be just lying very still awake, and it would tell me that I got eight hours just because my breathing was even. So it's rubbish. It's almost like it's not that clever. It's not worth it.

And then sometimes it would bloody buzz, even though I put it on Do Not Step, and it would wait me up. Oh, my goodness. So I just stop wearing it. If it makes you up, me that really is. Bloody hopeless. Anyway, okay, so you wouldn't recommend, no.

Anne says, actually, I just want to talk about luxury gifts and fees beautiful present to Jane of the M&S disinfectant. Have you tried it? Yes, I did a little light sprinkling on the kitchen floor last night. And, well, it's certainly, yes, there was a noticeable, pleasant whiff. Yeah, it elevated the evening. One of my daughter's friends turned up to have a meal with her and I had to admire her sheer verve.

She drove herself around to our house already ready for bed in pyjamas and a dressing gown. What, is it a sleepover? No. So she came in a pyjama and dressing gown and had supper at your house and then just got back in and went to bed? At ten past nine she'd gone, yeah.

Well, I never. Sometimes, are you sure that she was dressed for bed because there's... Fees. Even I... She came to see... I was watching Liverpool in the...

Whichever Champions League. Yeah. Very good win over a... I have to say, a slightly minor as a Bajani team last night, but hey, whatever. And yeah, she came in to see me

and was clearly dressed for bed. Yeah, but there is a thing, isn't there in fashion at the moment? The cohort. And I think they are pyjamas. It's, you know, the sulky top and the floated trousers. She said, I thought it would be easier

if I came to see... Okay, she announced it to you. It just makes life easier when I get home. Well, I mean, to be frank, I often travel to my friend's house in a negligee. I have a little truffle. I mean, I pop home to bed. I don't sleep. She most certainly wasn't dressed in a negligee.

It looked incredibly practical sleepwear to me. But young people, they do make you smile. Anyway, so I'm sure she, like the rest of the household, will have appreciated that one. of all disinfectant. It gives her back to disinfectant. Anyway, back to Anne. I remember chatting to a lovely younger friend of mine

and telling her that I knew when we were doing okay when I could afford to treat myself to M&S's lemon-scented bin liners. Yeah, highly recommended. But I think MNS have actually failed me and no longer sell them. Well, that's typical, isn't it? Let's start a campaign.

Does anybody wear a negligee anymore in bed? I think the kind of negligence to which you refer, the kind of Brentford Nylons. I don't think so, but you're really asking the wrong woman. Actually, I do find nightwear just peculiar. It's really quite peculiar, isn't it? I wonder the people who wear pyjamas, and I mean, how often are they washed the pyjamas?

Because you spend quite a bit of time in them if you're a devoted wearer, a dedicated wearer of pyjamas. Presumably you put them on a good boil wash every couple of days. I would hope so. I would have very much. Yeah. Because I think you're, apart from anything else, you're sloughing a lot of dead cells at night time, aren't you?

Absolutely. So at the moment, because it's very, very cold at the moment overnight. So I'm favouring a pyjama bottom with just a thick kind of ribbed vest on top. And I'm loving that. Because it's all nice and stretchy and loose. I think with a negligee, you'd just get caught up by it, wouldn't you?

We'd just get very twisty and tighter and tighter. You imagine. Coming to, in the middle of the night, after one of those dizzying crazy dreams about, I don't know, propelling a barge down a canal with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Putin chasing you. And then you, you know, you wake up and you, I don't know, you really, the dream started because you wanted some caramelised hummus

and you'd forgotten to put it on your shopping list. And you wake up in a brush nylon neck and shit. No, none of it. None of it is, no, none of it is sensible. Enough friction to start a house fire. Right, I just want to leave people with this thought, I couldn't really believe it and I don't really know what to make of it. So here we go. Last one from me. It comes from anonymous. I'm a long-time lover of the podcast, etc., etc.

Currently on maternity leave, so I've never needed you more. I'm finding that maternity leave is not quite, as I'd imagined. Far fewer lunches with new friends over illicit glasses of wine whilst we exchange advice, and far more long days stuck at home, alone, albeit with a lovely baby. I've never known the inside of a minute quite like this. It's a beautiful way of putting it. I love that because I went right back there. Thank you for that because it really reminded me.

Childcare minutes are very, very long. There's a great, great reference to it in The Simpsons where Home has to do some childcare and the clock ticks at a very slow time. As I find your chattering and tone so comforting and uplifting, I decided to turn to chat GPT to see if I could change its vocal tone of voice to be more like yours, quite literally.

so not only could you chat to me but I could chat back to you. This might seem a bit tragic, but in fact I think that opportunities like this could bring so much comfort to people far lonier than I am. Hopefully the more I chat to it, the more sophisticated it might get. However, you'll be satisfied to hear that it's nowhere near as effective

as chatting to a real human, but arguably better than nothing. Here's what it claims it can and can't do below. So what I can do, and this is after all of the prompts that are, listener has popped in. I can adapt my writing style and conversational manner to resemble

the hosts. Pacing, measured versus punchy, formality, chatty, reflective, analytical, structure, meandering conversation. Oh, God, the cheek. Versus tight points, attitude, rise, skeptical, warm, dry, reassuring. I can pick up recurring habits

like how they frame questions, how decisive or exploratory they sound how much emotional language they use. What I can't do, I can't copy or impersonate their actual voices, accents or vocal mannerisms. I can't permanently retrain myself from audio alone. I can't guarantee a perfect match. This is inspired by not imitation. How to get the best results?

If you send the podcast, I'll do better if you also tell me what you like about the hosts. Calm but incisive. Maternal but no nonsense. dry British understatement, how you want me to feel when responding to you reassuring brisk or gently challenging that combination of audio and your intent is what actually lets me dial it in.

If you want to send the podcast and say something like when I talk to you, I want you to sound more like this, thoughtful, grounded, slightly right, not overly enthusiastic. What do you think? Well, it's just really frightening. I'm first of all anonymous I really feel for you

and by the way these early months you know you will look back on this period of your life they pass they do pass and you will actually be quite nostalgic for some aspects and I do any I really mean this only some aspects of those early months and you will be very proud of yourself

yeah you should be and you absolutely should be but I'm really find that frightening just I sometimes I just think oh God, I do worry about how I am going to adapt to the future that I fear is very, very close indeed and which I am very nervous about navigating. What do you think? Well, I think exactly the same,

and I think it's why everybody, every news outlet should have taken a different speech from Davos. Because I think this is all stuff that's actually, it's not even on our doorstep, it's been posted through the letter box already. So I would say to our correspondent, I kind of think if the technology is allowing you to do that, it's out there already, it's going to help you then do it.

And don't feel bad about it, it's there. You know, you can use it. If you're always keeping in the back of your mind that it's not me and Jane, you know, it's a facsimile of. And also, why not plan a trip to London, come and see us in person. At times of towers, come and have a nice cup of coffee, we'll hold your baby, and we'll tell you about some of our very, very long days ourselves. during early years childcare.

And, yeah, I mean, I find it frightening too, Jane. But do you remember, I mean, we have been talking about this a long time. We used to laugh a bit about whether or not we would want to be taken care of by robots in our old age. It's not so funny now that it's not funny now at all. And we often perused whether or not, if they provoked in us, the same reactions that a decent human carer would. So we felt safer, we felt looked after, we felt entertained, we felt appreciated and we felt the warmth of friendship. What would it matter that it wasn't an actual human being?

You had to rush off to see 27 other social care clients that day being paid a very, very low wage to do that. So I agree it's frightening, but it's there. If you're going to use it to make yourself feel better, I don't want to tell you that you shouldn't. But obviously what you don't want to happen, and we know it's happened, particularly with very vulnerable teenagers, is that you find yourself imagining a true friendship

and taking the advice of what is a computer. So, you know, what a computer would tell you that we would say may not be what we would say. We've got real proper human experience at those very long days. That computer hasn't. So, you know, I would say we're available as real people. what do you think I think

because we both would be honest enough to admit and I'm not saying there's anything special about being honest by the way to say that the early years of parenthood were a challenge and those long days I still feel them in my bones

sometimes so I really really understand where you're coming from but I mean if he's right this is just it's artificial it is artificial it's scraped bollocks and you mustn't put any kind of faith in what it churns out.

However incredible it is, and listening to that, it clearly has incredible abilities, but the authenticity is fake. It's artificial. It's not real. Honestly, this edition has been, we've gone everywhere. Butterdish, funny dreams, AI, dog love. Love for Dogs on Valentine's Day

and talk of our YouTube channel. If you're not satisfied by this. So to be honest, if AI can catch up with all that. Yeah, good luck, chat GPT. So Ellie Reeves is here. You have been Solicitor General since September of last year. Yes, that's right. Yes, about five weeks.

Right. Labor MP for Lewish and West and East Dulwich. And she's here really to talk about the expansion of, it's called the VRR scheme. It's the Victims' Right to Reefat. review scheme and it's designed to help people who've been raped or experienced a serious sexual assault. It was first trialled in the West Midlands and it's now going to be rolled out in other parts of the country, the northwest of England, Yorkshire and Humberside and it's going to Wales as well. Now put very simply, and you can correct me, Ellie, the scheme gives victims the chance to request a review before a case is dropped for good. Yes, that's absolutely right. And look,

let me just start by saying this. When I took on the role of solicited, general five months ago. Without hesitation, I said my number one priority in this role is tackling violence against women and girls is such an important. It's a priority for the whole government. It is. And we launched our cross-government strategy to tackle violence against women and girls in December. The bit that I have the main responsibility for is the Crown Prosecution Service. We launched our strategy in November. The Victims' Right to Review scheme is something that I'm really been pushing for, it's incredibly important. Now, this came about because of a campaign by a victim,

a woman called Jade, whose case was dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service after charges have been brought. And the case was dropped and all that could happen was that Jade received an apology and she got some compensation, but the case couldn't be reinstated. That was the end of the matter. Okay, can we just go back to real basics here? because mercifully, this is a world that most of us, through a good fortune, don't know anything about. So let's say I am, unfortunately for me, I find myself the victim of a sexual assault.

I go to the police and initially they go with it and they think there is a case to be answered here. The CPS gets involved at that point. Yes, exactly. So the CPS would send the case, sorry, the police would send the case to the, in very simple terms, police send to the CPS, the CPS make a decision to. charge or not, if the CPS charge and the case proceeds, it's open to the CPS to look at that again at any point as it progresses and say, actually, we don't think now there's a realistic prospect of conviction, so we're not going to continue with the case. That then ends the case

for the victim. Now, it happens frequently, doesn't it? Particularly in cases of the old traditional, he says, she says, sexual assault or rape cases. Yeah, and that's why this victim's right to review scheme is so important because what it means is that if you are in that position and the CPS have bought charges, but then say we don't actually think there's a realistic prospect of conviction, before the case is dropped, the case then has to go to another prosecutor to review it. So it gives the victim another chance. It means that someone else looks at the case and says, well, actually, I think there is enough evidence to proceed with this case. So it gives victims much more of a voice in the process and means that hopefully it will drive up prosecutions,

but also it does put victims at the heart of that process as well. It's been piloted in the West Midlands and the feedback from victims there has been really positive. It's now going to be rolled out, first of all, in the North West from this week, then onto Yorkshire and the Humber in February and Wales in April. So how many people are you? How many people are you? people who could take advantage of the scheme actually do so. So the figures from the West Midlands were really low in terms of people taking up the scheme. But even when they didn't take up the scheme, they welcomed the fact that it was something that was available to them. Yeah, I'm a bit confused by that.

Why didn't more people take advantage of it? I mean, I can't answer as to why people might, for various reasons, not take it up. But I also, I mean, the figures were quite low. But I also wonder whether it improves decision-making from the outset. because if you're a prosecutor and you know that your decision is going to be checked by another prosecutor, actually I think that helps with getting it right first time and that's what we obviously want to see more of as well. You'd hope that would happen. So where does the other prosecutor come from?

So still within the CPS, of course. But it just means that it's a fresh set of eyes. It's a thorough review before any decision is taken. Right. And I mean, you've been using the term victim. Of course they are alleged victims, aren't they? because there hasn't been a conviction. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. But it's someone that's, you know, they've reported to the police. The police have thought there is enough evidence to send it up for the CPS. The CPS have made an initial charging decision. So, you know, they are treated as a victim by the system. These people have my sympathy. It must be horrendous.

And it must be truly dreadful to get a phone call and to be told, oh, I'm really sorry, but this has got to go. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why this victim's right to review scheme is important. in giving victims more of a voice in the system. And it's not the only thing that the CPS are doing, by the way. So, for example, in their rape and serious sexual offences units, they've also now got embedded within those victim liaison officers,

someone who is a point of contact for victims, who they can pick up the phone to, who they can speak to throughout their case. Prosecutors also offer meetings to victims of rape and serious sexual violence as well. Will those opportunities be open, even if the case is dropped? Can you still talk to somebody? Well, once the case is finished, then, you know, that's the end of the case, which is why this scheme is really, really important. If the case is dropped, then, you know, you get the outcome in the sense that it isn't going forward anymore.

But the outcome for you might be long-lasting physical and psychological damage, because indeed you have been sexually assaulted. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that we've said in our cross-government, plan for tackling violence against women and girls, halving violence against women and girls in a decade, because that's their ambition, is our ambition, is support for victim services as well. So separate to the victim liaison officers in the CPS, you've also got independent sexual violence advisors for, for example, who support victims through the process.

Yeah, I mean, it often seems to me that when we're talking about initiatives to stop violence against women and girls, I mean, there are three women in the room now. It is usually a conversation had by women amongst women about how women can somehow try to stop men assaulting women and girls. And I appreciate, by the way, there are some violent women and we acknowledge that absolutely. But on the whole, women are not going around

assaulting other women or girls. So why aren't more men involved in exactly the conversation that we're having right now? Well, I think more men should be. And actually, let me say this, this is something which the Prime Minister, Kirstama, is really committed to. we had a violence against women and girls summit just before the launch of the cross government

strategy in Downing Streets where stakeholders who work in the sector were invited to talk about the plans. And he opened that up. You know, he's very, very committed to this issue and driving it forward. That's why it was a clear commitment to have violence against women and girls in a decade. I don't think any other government's ever tried to do that. And I think the point about the cross-government strategy is there's a recognition that you don't have violence against women and girls simply by looking at the criminal justice system.

That is a big part of it, obviously. But actually, by the time it gets to the criminal justice system, things have already gone wrong, and that's why you need to have a cross-government strategy, looking at health, education, what happens online, and all of those things as well. So whilst my bit of the jigsaw, if you like, is focused on this Crown Prosecution Service,

actually there's a much bigger picture, and it's that cross-government work that I think will help to drive forward this change. Well, in Fee's previous conversation with our guest, Ian, before the news headlines, I mean, it's no doubt about it. Rape figures that are going up. Things are getting worse, not better.

And do you think, well, tell me, why do you think that is? I mean, some of it might be because people were coming forward and reporting. It's a possibility. Some of it might be, you know, how the police are kind of looking at these crimes because I think there's been a lot of sort of thought, about making sure that police forces are dealing with these crimes properly.

So there could be a range of factors. What I want to ensure is that when victims do come forward and when their case goes to the CPS, they are dealt with in the best way possible and they're given that support. Because actually, what we don't want is victims then pulling out of their cases before they get to court, for example, because they're not supported by the system. Right. I mean, there's a lot of talk about jury trials.

and whether in fact, and again, something else that Ian was talking about before 3.30, the fact that a woman, if she has been the victim of a sexual assault, might have to wait three, even four years. I mean, that is an unbearable amount of stress, isn't it? And victims, you know, I've spoken to many over the years, you know, it would say that, you know, they want to move on with their lives. You know, waiting three years for a court case is devastating. And we inherited a crisis in the criminal justice system.

Courts backlogs are far too high. They're set to reach 100,000, with increased sitting days in the courts. Crumbling courtrooms. That's a problem as well. Would it not help then, actually, to go with David Lammy's idea and to reduce the number of jury trials?

Well, those are proposals that have been put forward. Now there's talk of a U-turn, though. Well, look, at the moment, 90% of cases aren't heard by juries. And the proposals that were put forward by Sir Brian Leveson in the report that he did to look at tackling criminal justice and said that, you know, there needs to be real structural change in order to get on top of these backlogs and to get the criminal justice system back on track. So proposals are that for some crimes,

and it wouldn't be rape, it wouldn't be murder. But if you took some other crimes out of that jury system, you might speed up things for those rape cases and murder cases, so they get heard sooner. There'll be no U-turn then on the jury trial. Well, like all legislation, it has to go through the Commons, it goes through committee, it has to be scrutinised. No, it still might happen.

Well, look, the Justice Secretary has been really clear in the proposals, and Sir Brian Leverson's been clear in his report, that we need structural change to tackle these deep rooty challenges in the criminal justice system. I don't want to see victims of rape waiting three, sometimes four years for their cases to get to court. That is not justice and we need to do something. It's a difficult area though, isn't it? And I'm conscious even as I introduced this, but juries in rape trials might actually be a barrier to increasing convictions for alleged rapists. because juries are not always best placed in these sorts of cases.

Do you think there needs to be better education of jurors around sexual crimes? Well, look, because we all have our own prejudices. I certainly wouldn't advocate for taking away juries from rape cases and that certainly isn't what the government's putting forward. It is important and work has been done in, some work has been done in this area to kind of, you know, bust myths and stereotypes about rape. and actually a lot of that involves judges and the training that's given to judges

around busting those myths and stereotypes around rates because the judges are the ones that give directions in court and I think that's really, really important. But actually, you know, again, when you think about our Vogue strategy and the focus on education as well, I think that's really, really important

in terms of attitudes. Okay, let's talk about a few other stories in the news today. The Waspe women are livid. You were one of many Labour MPs, when you weren't in government, who wanted justice for the Waspie women, they're not going to get it, it would seem, and they're very angry. What do you say to them? Well, look, I know that people will be disappointed.

The issue here was around what people knew and what they were informed of. And the government's looked at it and concluded that, you know, people, you know, there was publicity, there was letters, there was notices in. GP surgeries, there was advertisement so that people would have been, the majority of people affected would have been aware of it.

So for that reason, you know, the government's made the decision that they have. I recognise the disappointment. Well, I think it's more than disappointment. I mean, they're livid. And some of these women have had quite tough lives actually and probably lives in which they were forced to

prioritise others rather than themselves. And now they're paying price and you did, I mean, you not the only one, but your colleagues did encourage them and did give them perhaps, well, as it's turned out, false hope that they were going to get compensation. But look, we want to support pensioners. That's why we're committed to the triple lock. Pensions have gone up this year. They'll go up again next year. And I think it's important to recognise that as well. It would be difficult, I think, in terms of any compensation to look at, you know, who was aware and who wasn't aware and have a scheme on that basis. But you knew all that

when you were encouraging them back in, back before the election. You were, you know, you were absolutely backing their campaign. Well, look, I think that, you know, it's important to look at it in the round in terms of the other measures to protect pensioners, such as the triple lock, which we have committed to, which has meant that pensioners have had more money through their pension this year and we'll get more money in their pension next year as well. And just a quick word, you're on Labor's NEC and so you were there in the meeting that decided that Andy Burnham wasn't going to be able to.

run in the by-election. Haven't you essentially just, you've just gifted that to reform, haven't you now? No, I don't accept that at all. Let me just say this. I mean, Andy is a great politician and he's a great mayor of Greater Manchester. When he said to be the mayor of Greater Manchester, he promised he would serve his full term. He's not halfway into that yet. The Labour Party passed rules at conference, I think, in 24, which meant that sitting mayors

had to seek permission from the NEC in order to stand. In this case, you know, having an unnecessary by-election for the Mayor of Greater Manchester, which would cost both the taxpayer millions of pounds, but also, you know, in terms of sort of campaigning as a political party, would take resources away from, say, Scotland and Wales for the elections next year, the NEC decided that, you know, really want Andy to carry on as these jobs, the mayor of Greater Manchester where he's doing a fantastic job. Okay, I mean, that's spirited.

But I think other people might interpret it in a different way. I mean, I wonder whether you were just tempted to let him run and lose. Because if Kirstarmer wanted to sort of stymie his attempts to go. I mean, I don't accept the premise that we're going to lose the by-election. Sure, you know, by-elections when you're in government are a tough fight. But, you know, we've got a really positive message, both in terms of local issues what we've done in Greater Manchester, with buses, for example, northern railway,

but also, you know, our brawomen of the things we've been delivering in government, like 30 hours free childcare, expansion of free school meals, breakfast clubs, and we'll be taking that positive case out on the streets of Gorton for this by election. I don't doubt it for a second, but you've made Andy Burnham more of an issue than he needed to be, haven't you? I don't think so. Look, you know, the party rules are there for a reason, the NEC looked at it, they considered it, and that's a decision that we reached. Right, okay.

Rachel Reeves is your sister. She is. I mean, it's incredible. There are some other, the Eagle sisters. Yes, that's right. Are there any other Labour politician sisters? You've got to as higher level as you and Rachel, actually. It's quite remarkable.

Yeah. I don't think, apart from Eagles, I was trying to think. No, I don't think of any other sisters. You sound so alike. We do sound alike. You really do. Yeah. We don't look.

look that similar, but we do sound the same. Yeah. She's the older sister though. She is, yes. Okay, so sibling rivalry, what form does it take in the, in the Reeves household? Well, you know, the thing is, is that although we are both members of parliament, both in the government, our careers have taken quite different path. She was an economist. I was a lawyer for many, many years before coming into Parliament. In Parliament, I've mainly focused on justice issues. Her obviously as Shadow Chancellor and now as the first female

Chancellor. So in a way we've sort of pursued different paths even though we're both in government together. I suppose if we were going to be really unpleasant, you'd say that she was currently edging ahead of you in terms of the fact that she's occupying one of the great offices of state, but Ellie, you're

younger and it's not over for you yet. So what are your ambitions? Well, I'm very much enjoying being solicitor. General. Before that, I was chair of the Labour Party. And in opposition, as well as holding justice positions, I then was the Deputy Cane coordinator for the general election, which was very exciting. I'm really happy focusing on justice issues. And, you know, at the start of your show, I said, my number one priority is tackling violence against women and girls. It is a huge

privilege for me to be able to do that in government. Many of our policies that were in our manifesto around tackling violence against women and girls, many of the things have set out in our strategy of things that I was talking about in opposition when I was shadowed solicitor-general. The thing about being in opposition, you can't actually get things done. You're going to tell me you're in your dream job. Congratulations to you. And your parents must be extraordinarily proud. Thank you very much for coming in, Ellie. Thank you very much. That was Ellie Reeves, who's a Labour MP and currently Britain's

Solicitor General. Thank you very much. Jennifer at times. enjoy the book club book good. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off air with Jane and Fee, thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live,

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