Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Quiet now, I'm going to speak.

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Fi's off for the rest of the week so Jane² is back on! Jane M is fresh off the plane from the US so expect lots of merch and some insightful political analysis in this ep! They also chat deep heat, overpriced G&T's and birth rates. Plus, breast surgeon and breast cancer survivor Dr. Liz O'Riordan speaks to Jane and Fi during Breast Cancer Awareness Month about her updated book 'The Complete Guide to Breast Cancer'. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Genuinely, nobody gives a shit. Right. About anything. And have you, because you relatively recently moved there, has it lived up to expectations? Oh yeah. Yeah, nobody gives a shit. Welcome to Brighton, where no one gives a shit.

Hello, I'm Holly Mead and with me is Lucy Andrews and we are both from the Money Team at The Times and Sunday Times. And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively about money and personal finance. Each week we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt, saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish. Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyds Readymade Investments. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line.

Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well it's crossed my mind, tell me a bit more about it. Well with Norwegian Cruise Line you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go-local shore excursions as well as an immersive program of onboard experiences. I can't lie, I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship. Well Jane, their fleet has so many unique bars, lounges and restaurants. They also have fantastic entertainment, shows, facilities on board.

You wouldn't be short of things to do. Plan ahead to discover your dream Europe 2025 cruise. It's certainly one way to beat the winter blues. Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information, call 0333 222 6513 contact your travel agent or visit ncl.com Okay welcome aboard off-air Fee for reasons lost in the midst of time is off for today and tomorrow. And it's Budget Day here in the United Kingdom, which if you're outside the country, it's a fiscal statement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

And for the first time ever in the UK, we have a woman in that role. Jane Mulcairons joins me. It's not me. It's not you. You should be. That was a left turn, but yep. Yeah. And if you'd ever see my bank statement, you'd definitely recommend me for that role. Do you know what? I, this is probably quite, well, I just showed how peculiar you get in later life. I check my bank statement or my bank every single day.

Every day. First thing I do pretty much after a cup of tea. Yeah, so there aren't many things that I think that are sort of that I'm crippled by but one of them is official document blindness. Are you a procrastinator? No, just if anything comes in a brown envelope, I can't open it. And even though bank statements are now online and on your phone, in my mind they still arrive in a brown envelope and they're bad news. So you avoid... Yeah, I do check it probably two or three times a month around the time I know I have to move from Beater to Paypal.

Yeah, okay, because there's a time in the month... Usually before my mortgage comes out. Exactly, when various things are happening. So anyway, I would not be in the top three candidates, even on the Times magazine's desk, which is a team of four to be the Chancellor. But it is traditional for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to pose on the steps of their official residence 11 Downing Street, fact fans, with the traditional red box. And actually, I'm quite moved. I'm just really chuffed that it's a woman in that role.

Absolutely. And she's in a navy, I think it's a navy suit. It is. And holding the little red box aloft or in front of her and yeah it's a moment. It is a moment. Yeah so congratulations to her for achieving that office. Now you in your day job are the Associate Editor of The Times Magazine. I am. Other women have had that role?

Yeah have they? Well not actually for quite a long time. Well there you go. Where have you just been? I've just been in America. Okay let rip. So I'm going to start with the good things. I've got some merch for you. Oh. And I'd like you to choose it and then wear it. Okay. I've got a selection of hats. You can only have one but you have to choose which one you'd like.

None of them, oddly, are Trump hats. Funny that. Couldn't you get me one? I expect they're not really selling them anymore. So for those of you who can't see, there's a white, a camo and a black cap, trucker cap, and they're all Harris-Waltz 2024 caps. The camo one says 2024, we're not going back. And the white one is just Kamala Harris and five stars. And Harris-Waltz, I'm going to... Do you mind if I have the black one? Not at all.

They're there for you to choose, Jane. Well, thank you. I'm going to choose the black one, which is just Harris-Waltz 2024. Do you mind if I have the black one? Not at all, they're there for you to choose. Well thank you, I'm going to choose the black one which is just Harris Walls 2024. Thank you very much. I've also got some badges. Got some badges. Oh, you don't really need to. Yeah, no, I went shopping. So this Freedom for the People badge

was given to me by a new friend who I made at the Obama rally. Oh, hello. It wasn't Obama who made it, he was a lovely photographer from an Atlanta local newspaper. It says freedom to the people. There was another one that I had that I don't seem to have in my little Amazon package which was childless cat ladies for Kamala. I'm keeping that one. This one was given to me on the way back from cycling my nephew to school and it's a green one that says regulate guns not women.

Powerful. It's good that one. And then there's a little bag here of various Kamala Harris badges. I'm just gonna lay them out and over the course of this recording you can choose one or two. Do you know what? I'm really chuffed because my... Can you wear that on Tuesday? I will wear that on Tuesday. My daughters are becoming utterly obsessed by American politics. Oh well, would you like to take some of them home? They absolutely would love some of these. So, thank you. Great, my pleasure. I feel like I definitely helped, you know, influence the

outcome by buying some merch. So, I was in America. You were in Georgia? Where I used to live for 11 years. So, and I was very involved in the election in both 2016 and 2020 as a volunteer. It's been very strange this election to not be involved. And actually I went on holiday because my brother lives in Atlanta and I wasn't intending to do any work but then Obama came to town so I ended up going to the rally with Bruce Springsteen and Obama and Harris and reporting on it. And was that just a walk in thing? No, no, no, I had to sign up as press and when I say it's not a walk in it was

possibly the most difficult thing to get into that an out of that I've ever experienced apart from Harry Styles gig. Security, the queues, there was, I'm not exaggerating when I say the line of people to get into it as Pontus was an actual mile long. There was 20,000 people, 23,000 people in a football stadium. So yes, I ended up doing stuff for Times Radio on the Friday and the Saturday because then Beyonce came to Texas and so anyway it wasn't a holiday in the traditional sense of not doing any work but I very much was happy to be there and to experience it because it all feels incredibly febrile and the one thing I will say for sure is that nobody's apathetic over there right now. Really okay which I suppose that's worth acknowledging. Because apathy, would you say that in the past apathy had featured?

Yes. Right, as it does here. As it does here. I would say in the past people have been apathetic. I encountered no apathy. I encountered a lot of very strong feelings. Okay, can I ask you about something that really intrigues me? These ads I've seen of women voting, the suggestion being that you can vote and hubby won't know how you voted. Yes, it's very interesting. Now, they wouldn't run ads like that in the UK, would they? It's unthinkable.

Well, we don't run political ads in the same way. I was sitting at the airport in Atlanta before I came home on Sunday night having the world's most expensive gin and tonic because inflation is out of control in that country. $27 for gin and tonic. Sorry, what? Yeah, $27. So when people talk about the economy, that's what they're talking about. Bloody hell.

Yeah, anyway, and there was a Trump ad on the television. So I sort of, I don't really watch television when I'm in America. It's tripe, that's why. Well yeah, and I actually didn't really watch it when I lived there. But the Trump ad was so extraordinary and then at the end of it, instead of having a Trump website to look at, it said find out about camela.com. So it's just, I mean, the whole thing is extraordinary. And it all feels like a spoof. But yeah, these ads about vote and your hobby won't know. It's very interesting. A friend who has been phone banking for the Democrats says that

she's spoken to several women who said that they are going to vote for Kamala Harris based on reproductive rights and you know the abortion desert that is many states right now but they are traditional Republicans and they are definitely not discussing this with their husbands and not talking to husbands about how they're gonna vote and she actually said that she's had several encounters where they said oh I have to go now my husband's coming and get off the phone. Right I'm not saying that doesn't happen in the UK but it does seem incredibly old-school. Yeah. That the man of the house dictates how the little lady votes. Well also ballots are also still secret. They're secret. Yeah. So you can say whatever you like. You can tell him what the hell you like and do what the hell you like. Yeah but I

hope that what it means is that women who may have considered voting for Donald Trump in the past are now abandoning him over reproductive rights because, you know, I mean, it's such a big issue right now. I mean, the Democrats would never have before gone to Texas 11 days before an election, but it's testament to the fact that you can't get an abortion from conception in that state right now. I don't think that's widely known in this in Western Europe actually. It's an abortion desert you cannot get an abortion in Texas and also

there's also a demographic change in Texas in that it has been the cities have been becoming more diverse much younger over the course of the last decade or so. So even though it's very unlikely the Democrats will take Texas, they are laying the groundwork for future elections in that. There's a very real possibility that perhaps in, you know, four years or eight years or 12 years, there might be a chance of them taking Texas. So I want to hear more I really do. I just want to bring in and thank you very much I'm going to take a badge as well that'll go down very well at home. I just want to bring in a listener who has responded to our plea for a Republican voter to contact us. I am from the UK but we've lived in the USA for 18 years. Like you and many of your listeners,

I was utterly dismayed when Trump became President. My friends and I would half-joke about leaving the country, although honestly during his four years there really wasn't too much to actually complain about. The media had lots of women whipped into a frenzy because it's good for their ratings. This election however, I will be voting Republican. Four years ago, I would never have believed this would be possible, but a lot has changed. I'm still not a huge fan of Trump, but the Democrats are so far left, they no longer represent my values. My vote is a strategy, a chess move, not a valentine. It appears that the Democrats are so determined to stay in power, they're flying in illegal immigrants into swing states to flip the country blue. Right.

It took me years to get here legally with medical tests, references, proof of funds etc etc, yet now there are millions of unvetted immigrants. Okay, Jane. Well, you've been there. I mean, yes, I have been flying in illegal immigrants. I have no evidence to say that illegal immigrants have been flown in. What I will say is, of course, there are, as I was just saying, the demographics have changed in the cities. There has been more immigration. There's a brownification of America in the South, which some people do not like. very traditionally southern white states. Well, they're not white. Obviously, you know, there's a hugeification of America in the South, which some people do not like. These very traditionally Southern white states, well they're not white, obviously, you know,

there's a huge African American population, but there've always been Republican voting white voters, and that's changing, it's changing. There's a lot of immigration. Interestingly, in Georgia, one in six Georgians is a naturalized American, which means they were born outside the country, which is huge for it's the most of any of the swing states. And that does affect voting. Yeah, it's it's changing. Countries change. There is absolutely no evidence that people are being flown in. Also, they wouldn't be registered to vote if they've been flown in. But that is an example of the sort of thing that's swirling around. Yeah, so my brother voted for the first time. I went to the polling station with him because

you can do early voting and he was naturalised in June, I want to say, and interestingly because they obviously are in Georgia keen to get people voting to get out the vote because it was the state that was contested. They also registered him to vote at the same time, but it took three months for his permit to come through. So you can't fly in and get a permit to vote. No, and vote for Harris. It doesn't work that way. OK, but you just mentioned the price of a gin and tonic. I don't want to focus on that. I know, I do.

But that, the cost of living, that is, it's just, it's the same in this country. In the end, it's people who just do not have enough to get by, feel it really keenly, want change, want things to be better for their children. And so it doesn't actually, you can talk about reproductive rights as much as you like I suspect, but it's probably not going to be the single biggest issue for a hell of a lot of voters, particularly those who are not female. No, and I do think inflation has been out of control in the last four years, as it has everywhere, because of Covid, because of wars, because of many things. But it does feel, America feels unaffordable for many people. In Georgia, it's something

like 22%, the real cost of inflation in people's everyday lives. Obama made a very good joke at the rally. It was one that he'd recycled from the Tuesday in Michigan, but whatever it's Obama, he's allowed to make the same joke twice. He said, you know, people say Donald Trump handled the economy really well, you know, in the first couple of years, and then he paused for Obama comic effect, and then he said, it was my economy, you know, and it took me eight years to clean up the Republicans, whatever. And it's kind of true, you know, Trump inherited a pretty good economy, and things were already on the slide, you know, when Biden took over.

But you know, it's a difficult one. Life is very expensive and Kamala said, you know, at the same rally, she said, I will work every day to bring down the cost of living because it's just very hard right now to stand there as a Democrat and say, you know, we've got a handle on the economy. It doesn't feel like they do. And it's not one of her strongest suits. No, she isn't brilliant. She's not brilliant.

And can we just say, she's not the greatest candidate ever, but she's judged to a totally different standard because she appears to be sane. So we look at her and we start questioning what she says and how she says it entirely legitimately. We don't apply the same standards to the other guy. No, the other guy who puts on a random Spotify playlist and does some dad dancing.

Anyway, who's going to win? I think she is. Good. Let's settle for that. Let's, yeah. And let's congratulate our listener Fabby, who says, I spotted your tote bag in the corner of a cafe in Malta. It prompted a chat about the podcast and your good selves.

We ended up having a romantic encounter. That is the power of the tote, says Fabi. Well, I feel as though there are a few details missing there, but I'm so glad that the Jane and Fee tote bag brought you a certain amount of romantic success, Fabby. And more details required, please, Jane and Fee at times.radio. Um, talking of men, uh, dear Jane and F, I've listened to the podcast for years and often noticed how your female guests will ask you for your views and how few male guests have asked you anything about yourselves. I even contemplated re-listening to the series and counting.

I asked Shatchie PT but he didn't really understand me. Has anyone done the wha- the math? The wha- the math? With warmth, Laura. That's very interesting. Do you notice that when you're interviewing people? I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? Because our job is to ask the questions. So, when they don't ask any back. No. I mean, it's not their job but... It isn't their job and a lot when they don't ask any back. No. I mean it's not their job but.

It isn't their job and a lot of women don't ask us much either. Some of them do though. It's been a long running theme over the last couple of weeks about the man sitting next to you. I know because we talked about it last night and then I know it's run and run. And it happens because it's true. People want to talk about it because it's overwhelmingly our experience. And I think right from toddlerdom almost, women and girls are taught to be the emoliant on the rash of interaction. Oh, I like that.

The itchy scratch of, do you know what I mean? Keep the wheels of conversation turning. That's up to you. The deep heat of the muscular chat. Oh, actually, that reminds me of something. Knees are killing me. I bought some deep heat first thing this morning. I love the smell of deep heat.

Anyway, that's what we picked up later. I won't be smearing it around in the office, but what will I? I have pulled men up on this in a romantic context as well. And they've said, oh, I just thought you'd just tell me sorry what you say quite now I'm going to speak oh god so I brought you the merch but I haven't got one of my microphones that I meant to bring you next time what it watches the microphone the prop microphone oh yeah yeah we've got real ones right now I don't so pleased with my hat that I'll be wearing it in bed on Tuesday night oh we could just I'm gonna pleased with my hat that I'll be wearing it in bed on Tuesday night.

I'm going to wear seven of them. Seven? Look. Hello, it's taken me a while to get around to sending this, says Sue, but I thought you'd enjoy it nonetheless. When references made on one of your podcast episodes to that most American of male names, Randy, it immediately put me in mind of a certain American footballer's name, which is, I kid you not, Randy Bullock. Randy Bullock.

Yeah, I'm not sure. OK, so the surname's Bullock, the son is born, you think? Yeah, Randy. That's it. We'll go for Randy this time. Sue says it never failed to amuse me when the commentators said his name when he regularly played for the Tennessee Titans. Sadly, Randy isn't in action these days. when he regularly played for the Tennessee Titans. The Tennessee Titans.

Sadly, Randy isn't in action these days. There are other interesting player names, but none come quite much up to Randy Bullock. Coming on the field to try to score. Coming up from the back, Randy Bullock. Come on, Randy, you can do it. Oh, God, it must be... That's a name that you don't want to be saddled with

as you enter later life. I mean, it must be such a... Well, it's not easy in younger life, but anyway. That's just reminded me to say that if you're looking for a Netflix recommendation, I've just started Territory, if anyone's interested in that. Anna Torv, who's very good in The Newsreader in Australia. I love her in The Newsreader. Well, you'll enjoy Territory. In fact, another of the actors from The Newsreader is in it as well.

They've only got seven in Australia. I was going to say that obviously is a bit of a dearth of talent. So if you're currently looking for work as a thespian in the UK, get out there. Get out there because territory is full of familiar faces if you've ever watched any other Australian show. I'm very excited because at the end of the week, The Diplomat comes back to Netflix. I love. I couldn't get to grips with that.

Really? It's about the... It's so silly. Remind me, it's the American... She is the American ambassador to the UK, Kerry Russell. And Ruth Vesual is her husband, who is some sort of former diplomat, too, and not smarting about the fact that his wife's got the job done, at all, honest. And then there's a sort of James Cleverley type foreign secretary with whom she's having a bit of a flirtation.

I love it. And there's a very annoying British Prime Minister isn't there? Imagine. Yeah, it's hard to believe. Yeah, I don't know, we very rarely get them here. Anonymous says, I move every couple of years and so I feel like I'm constantly introducing myself to new social circles with varying levels of enthusiasm. In doing this, I am constantly confronted by people making assumptions about me.

For years, it was, I thought you were a right posh twat, but actually you're alright. My rictus grin has been honed to perfection to see me through these situations. If I pretend to be Australian, then my accent is acceptable. Are you an actor? Being ginger attracts all the inevitable comments about that too and that drains my life force. It astounds me that Kicker Ginger Day is seen as acceptable good larks. Well honestly, not by the likes of us it isn't.

That's absolutely horrendous. The latest assumption, says our correspondent, is that I'm menopausal. There is nothing like hearing about the latest unfounded pearls of wisdom from some toxic wellness expert to induce symptoms of overheating and fury. I think symptoms that can be mistaken as menopause would be reduced if we didn't have to listen to all this bollocks being talked about it. I know that it's great that we're having the conversations at last but a sensible well-informed conversation would be so much less aggravating. There is a risk that if we blame all our feelings of

irritation on the menopause it will stop our emotions being recognized as a rational reaction to the rubbish peddled by modern-day society. Well, here, here. You are in very good company because Jane and I agree that it was a lot better when people didn't talk about the menopause quite so much. I can't, yeah. Well, yes, I do think that's true. Have you written a book about the menopause? Not yet, no.

No, I mean, well, we seem to be the only females in any kind of media organisation who haven't written a book about the menopause. I haven't even had a menopause. Not yet. No, I mean, well, we seem to be the only females in any kind of media organisation who haven't written a book about menopause. I haven't even had a menopause, but I might write a book about it. Why don't you? Yeah, even though I'm not doing them, I'm not going to do it. My former colleague at Woman's Air, Dame Jenny Murray, she wrote the seminal work about the menopause, Is It Me or Is It Hot In Here? And credit to her because I think she was the first. It's a great title. It is a good title. I think she was the first to go there with it. And to actually, and I think I've got a copy of that book somewhere, but it is a subject that came out of,

it was in the wilderness, which was wrong, and it was, you know, people used to make jokes about it. And now you can't shift for it and it's frustrating. It's the London fox of medical situations and it's so not in the wilderness, it's on your street corner all the time. Well, there is a corner that I, particularly if I'm returning home late at night, possibly after a few scoops to drink, I know exactly where I'm going to encounter the fox. I mean it's always on the same corner and every time you focus and you think I'm gonna wait to see where it goes, where is it living and then you follow it and then it's just gone and you can't work out which hedge it's slunk into. In Brighton they just stroll around in the daytime now, they just don't care. Well no but that's Brighton. Yeah. I mean it is it's one of the friskier places. Yeah exactly. I mean, can you explain to listeners outside the UK what Brighton is?

What Brighton is, yeah, because it does have a reputation doesn't it, Brighton, in a good way. So it was the, originally the seaside retreat of wealthy Victorians going to take the air, like Broadstairs and other places like that. So it was on the south coast, a 50 mile south of London, in Sussex. So you can get to it from the south. You can get to it, well, I mean, some days. It's difficult. Some days you can't, even from London Bridge. So it's a seaside resort with a lot of beautiful Victorian terraces and things.

And then it was, as many seasideSA results, became popular with artists and the queer community and so it has a reputation for being extremely liberal and very accepting, very open. And it has a green MP. Yep. So it was the only green seat for a very, very long time. And it is still quite alternative. So it's one of the few places I think in England where genuinely nobody gives a shit about anything. And have you, because you've relatively recently moved there, has it lived up to expectations? Oh yeah. Nobody gives a shit.

Welcome to Brighton, where no one gives a shit. Well Eve grew up there. So she also, you know, I chose doesn't it? I mean she does gives a shit. Well Eve grew up there. Yeah I know she did. I chose doesn't it? I mean she does give a shit. Oh no she very much does. I tell you what she's worked very hard this week. Would you like a badge? She can have a badge. I'm going to give her a badge. No seriously she has. It's only Wednesday morning. I thought it was Thursday. Oh no you're not getting a badge. If you work on today and tomorrow, yeah, then it's a possibility. We were talking yesterday about the declining birth rate. And this is from Viv who says, I'm old.

When I had my daughter, we were all in it together. In that all women with children, and it was all women, no men, were at home for at least part of the day. And that meant we had all swapped our children around so we could each go to work part-time if we wanted. The women tended to do all the volunteer community work often with creches monitored by monitored by another mother. I really don't understand why a government doesn't offer tax-free cash to those families who would rather have a parent stay at home than send the child out to a nursery.

The pay for childcare cost the government a fortune so it probably wouldn't add much to the cost if they simply moved some of the money to allow parents to spend it the way they wanted which might be staying at home or might be sending their child to childcare. Viv, thank you for that. I completely recognise that picture you paint of growing up back in the day, certainly when I was growing up in the 60s and early 70s, there was just a clutch of women around who would all be relied upon at various times during the week, working week, call it what you like, to have the children while the women did something else. And that might be going out to work or it might be looking after their parents or whatever it

was. So I think those days, I'm sure they haven't entirely gone because there's still that, I mean, I'm still friendly with the women I met in the primary school playground and we did all have each other's kids around after school and all the rest of it. So it does still exist, but I wonder if the budget today will have anything for people who, frankly, would rather, and I'm not looking at would rather be around at home when the children are very young because I think the stress of having to juggle your domestics and your working life when the children are very small is colossal. It's huge. And it just, it really adds to the pain, it really does.

Yeah, and when I grew up in the 80s, many mums were around after school. And when my mum went back to work, you know, there were various other people's houses I could go to after school. You didn't have to think about wraparound childcare. No, the wraparound childcare didn't exist. I've got friends who've got after school nannies, you know, because they, you know, their children go to school but it's still not enough. No, because it finishes at half three. It finishes at half three. Or my nephew finishes at quarter past two in America. He starts

at... Quarter past two. Yeah, so he starts school at quarter to eight in the morning and finishes at quarter past two. So what? I mean, it's lunchtime. So what happens then? Well, yeah, his parents, my brother and my sister-in-law, you know, have to pick him

up at quarter past two. Right, yeah. So that, yeah, that my brother and my sister-in-law, you know, I have to pick him up Right, yeah, so that yeah that hadn't thought about that. Do you like our American correspondent? Oh, just like it just like it. Um, I can go back next week if you'd like to America I like I kind of wanted to stay for the election and why couldn't you because I've got a job Oh that old thing Yeah, um, but no, I will say the declining birthrate story, I mean, I know it's a serious story, but I just thought, surprise, you know, like, of course the birthrates dropped. I mean, it costs 1500 quid a month to put your child in nursery. Yeah. Who's got the money for that right now?

No, they haven't. No one can buy a house. No. No one can afford to have a baby. No. Oh, surprise. And a gin and tonic cost your life savings. Jane, thank you. It is budget day, so I have to get a wiggle on here in the UK and I just want to bring in our guest today. I'm so glad we've got her because it's Liz O'Riordan who appeared on The Times Radio Show the day before last, but we really thought it was worth putting into off air because it's hugely important to hear this. Liz is a survivor of breast

cancer, she's also a breast surgeon. This episode of Off Air is sponsored by the National Art Pass. Now Jane, there's nothing I like better than a trip to a gallery or a museum on a rainy afternoon. And let's be honest, we get quite a lot of those in the UK, don't we? I do feel that looking at a bit of art is more than just kind of looking at a bit of art, if you know what I mean. I think it can really stay with you long after the visit, kind of feeds the soul.

Yeah, you're on to something there, because scientific research suggests that regularly looking at art could help you live longer, plus lots of other well-known benefits to boost your wellbeing and help reduce stress. So why not get a National Art Pass? It gives you free and half price entry at hundreds of museums and galleries and only costs £59.25 for an individual pass. And there's a reduced price for under £30 and you can also purchase plus one and plus kids add-ons. Free or half price entry and a chance of living longer, I am sold. The National Art Pass. See more, live more. Get your pass at artfund.org forward slash off air.

Monopoly Double Play is back in McDonald's and it's easy to get into the win. First, you peel on pack. This is me winning a Universal theme park vacation. Then, again in app. And me, in a new Chevrolet Equinox RS. There are millions of prizes, including a chance to win cash every minute in the app. Cash doesn't make any noise, but it's awesome. Get into the game with Monopoly Double Play at McDonald's.

While supplies last, one in five chances to win GameCube prizes at outset, chances to win Double Player prizes based on time of code entry and draw prizes based on number of entries in each draw. See rules in app. The Times Tech podcast sponsored by ServiceNow. A podcast presented from San Francisco and from London.

Each week, a fresh interview with pioneers in tech from the brightest startups to the tech giants. That's the Times Tech podcast, where Danny in the Valley, that's Silicon Valley, meets me, Katie, in in the city the city of London Exploring how tech is changing life and business in this new world of artificial intelligence The Times Tech podcast with Katie Prescott and Danny Fortson follow us now wherever you get your podcasts The October is breast cancer awareness month in 2024. More than 360,000 people will be diagnosed with breast cancer.

But early diagnosis and developments in medicine mean that there is hope when caught in its earlier stages, the five-year relative survival rate of breast cancer is 99%. Let's talk to Dr. Liz O'Riordan, who is a breast surgeon who's battled breast cancer is 99%. Let's talk to Dr Liz O'Riordan who is a breast surgeon who's battled breast cancer three times herself and is the author of The Complete Guide to Breast Cancer. Dr Liz, how lovely to have you on the program again today, how are you? I'm good thanks, Fee. Good, good. Can we go right back to basics and talk about the causes of breast cancer? There is a lot of stuff out there at the moment that makes all kinds of suggestions about why you might be making yourself susceptible to breast cancer. What are the facts?

So the two biggest reasons people get breast cancer is because they're women, so they have a lot of breast tissue and they get older. When you're 30 your risk of getting breast cancer is one in 200 women, when you're 90 it's one in four, so it really is a lot of breast tissue and they get older. When you're 30 your risk of getting breast cancer is 1 in 200 women, when you're 90 it's 1 in 4. So it really is a disease of the elderly, but we know more and more younger women are having it. And part of that is due to our lifestyle. We know that if you weigh more than you should, you drink more than you should, you don't exercise, it does increase your risk by about 20 to 30 percent. But for most of us, I mean I drank like a fish at medical school, it is still just bad luck. And that's why checking your breasts is so important when you're young because the earlier we catch it, as you said, the

greater the survival. Right. What do you think of the kind of information that is on display and available, particularly to young women at the moment? It's a very unregulated world out there on the Instagram and the other social media platforms. And there's quite a lot of stuff being said that just makes no sense at all. I worry, I really do. Every day people send me videos or clips

they've heard on podcasts or headlines in newspapers. Is it true? Do we need to throw all our cosmetics out because of parabens, our under wide bras killing us, our deodorants killing us? And it's really hard to combat all this misinformation and I think you're worried, you're frightened, you want certainty and someone with a million followers is suddenly speaking more common sense

to these people than a doctor or a health cancer charity and I wonder whether we need to go back to educating young people how to work out what is right and what isn't because there is so much misinformation out there. So the most sensible thing that you can do is to learn how to check your breasts. Yeah and I never did. I was the breast surgeon I thought I'm never gonna get it my mum didn't teach me, I wasn't taught at school and most women and men don't check themselves regularly and whilst there are some excellent videos out there, there are also videos that are giving bad advice and there are so many gadgets coming on now, there are ultrasound

probes you can put on your boob to help but I think it's just you put reminder in your phone every month and you check yourself top to toe. Sometimes can that give false hope though, I mean as you've said you know there are lots of different pieces of advice on how to be checking your breasts and presumably the worst thing that you can do is to think, oh yeah, I do that every month and I never find anything, so I'm absolutely fine. Yeah, I think breast cancer can take five or ten years to grow from a cell into a lump that's big enough for you to feel. And most women say, this lump wasn't there two days ago ago it just suddenly appeared overnight. A bit like a woman who's

pregnant when she suddenly starts to show and it's why breast cancers can develop between mammograms and screening because you have this every three years. By doing it every month you know what's normal for you and you will notice a change even a very very small one and that's why it's so important. At what age in the UK do you get called for a mammogram? It's between the age of 50 and 53 and it's every three years and it stops between the age of 70 and 73 but you can still self-refer every three years. And do you think that that needs to change?

If the demographic of people who are suffering from breast cancer is changing, does the test need to change? I think the problem is there's no better alternative. Mammograms work by picking up white cancers on a black background because after the menopause, your breast tissue turns to fat. When you're young, you have dense breasts. A dense breast can actually increase your risk of breast cancer as well, but a dense

breast looks white. But it's really hard to see a small white cancer on a white breast so they're just not that accurate and although it is more common in young women from a public health point of view there aren't enough young women getting breast cancer to make it worth screening everybody and on top of that in some parts of the UK only a third of women are going for their first mammogram. Right only a third. Gosh okay. And if they aren't going for their second,ogram. Right, only a third. Gosh, okay. And if they aren't going for their second, you know whether it's we're working, we're busy, it's hard to get time off,

you think it's not going to happen to you, you think mammograms are dangerous because you believe nonsense online, we need to fix this problem. Right, gosh, I'm really surprised that it's so low. I mean, I personally couldn't wait to get my first invitation for a mammogram because I was worried that 50 might be a little bit too late anyway. And can we also talk just about the way that we describe breast cancer? I mean those statistics are terrifying. 360,000 people will be diagnosed with breast cancer in 2024. But then the second statistic that we put

into the introduction, when caught in its earliest stages, the five-year survival rate of breast cancer is 99%. So if you get to it quickly, it is a disease that you are likely to survive. But when we talk about cancer, Liz, immediately I think we all go to a very, very worst first scenario place, don't we? We hear cancer and we think, gosh, that is threatening somebody's life. If we talked about it in a different way, perhaps a more optimistic way, particularly catching it early, then do you think we will be able to change say that statistic about women going for mammograms? I really hope so. I mean when I was diagnosed I just thought I'll be

dead in a year. When it came back every time you go to that dark place and the media is often full of people who are dying, so 31 women and men die every day of breast cancer. What we don't see is the women who are dying. So 31 women and men die every day of breast cancer. What we don't see is the women who are living, surviving, who are cured, because that doesn't make great headlines. There's been eight new drugs in the last couple of years with triple negative breast cancer alone. It is almost becoming a chronic disease.

There is so much hope and so many research opportunities coming. But a lot of people don't think the importance of catching early you're less likely to need chemotherapy, you're less likely to need a mastectomy, you are more likely to live and I think it's trying to get this positive message out there. The advances in cancer medicine are incredible. More and more people are being cured, more and more people are surviving. It's not the death sentence you think it is.

Yes, it's such a good point to make. Obviously what doesn't help Liz, when people like Elma Fearson, the Australian supermodel announces that she was going to do breast cancer her way, so she had a diagnosis in 20... was it 2017? She turned down chemotherapy, she opted for a holistic approach. I've seen some clips of interviews that she's given about what that meant, which was retiring from the world with this amazing staff around her, living on her own,

eating an incredibly restricted diet. She truly believed that she was doing the right thing. Now look, it might have worked for her, but that is not what's going to work for most people, is it? No, and I think it's important to remember Elle did have the treatment that's most likely to cure her, which is surgery.

We know that women who refuse all treatments, like the American VJ in Ander Lewis, who decided to live with her breast cancer, you are six times more likely to die if you go down the alternative route. And there is no evidence to prove that any of the treatments Elle had to cure cancer, you are six times more likely to die if you go down the alternative route. And there is no evidence to prove that any of the treatments L had to cure cancer is actually what my next book is about, the cancer roadmap, debunking all these myths that people see on Tuk Tuk. A lot of people will use them and there's a wellness like kind of placebo

effect. If you start eating a lot, a very healthy diet, you will feel better, you will exercise more, your lifestyle will improve. And we know that can reduce the risk of recurrence. But there are women in Australia who are now refusing to have chemotherapy because Elle said no and she's still alive and it's that ripple down effect from a little clip or a book that is potentially going to kill people in the future. Yes, so what we should take from this Liz is that modern medicine has been amazing in terms of the treatment of breast cancer and if you catch it early enough and the NHS is trying to help you to do that then your chances of survival are really good. Having said all of that Liz, you've had breast cancer three times. I wonder whether you can just share with us what that does to you mentally? It's really hard. I think the cancer itself is scary but it's the collateral damage.

I'm on treatment for life, I get bum injections every month, the side effects, the fear of recurrence, the guilt that you feel when someone dies. It's really, really hard. It changes your life forever and you have good days and bad. But I think if I can be honest and real and talk about what it's like and tell people, you know, there are good things that can happen. You can get through this. There are so many people out there living amazing lives. Cancer patients shouldn't be put in a little pile at the bottom. It's not what you think, but it's tough.

It's really scary when you hear those words and think how long do I have left and it makes you realise, although handbags and shoes and Singaporean clubs sound amazing actually, it's the memories you make with people that matter the most. Yeah, we've got quite a few people texting in this afternoon and get your messages in just as quick as you can, 0333 003 2353. This one, is it difficult to spot breast tumours if a woman has had breast implants? I'm in my early 40s and recently had a mammogram which was thankfully clear but when I asked the consultant whether the implants prevented a clear image she said I can't see half the breast and walked away. I've been left very worried and not sure what to do.

Where can women with implants get advice from?" So that's not very helpful. Normally if you have an implant, you have a mammogram where they use special paddles to push the breast tissue off the top of the implant. You can still feel a breast cancer very easily because that tissue is sitting on top of the implant. So you feel your breasts like you normally would. And if you go to the doctor and you're under the age at which you would be getting regular mammograms and you say I've sent some kind of change will you automatically be referred for a mammogram? You should be referred to the local breast unit you may not have a mammogram if you're under 40, you may have an ultrasound,

but sadly there are still doctors, trainee doctors who don't think young women can get breast cancer. I mean, Chris Helengo was diagnosed in her twenties, and I think it's really important that if you think there's a lump, there's a problem. You need to push and say, you can't prove it's not breast cancer

without sending me up for a scan. Please take me seriously. We know that 90% of people we see in clinics don't have breast cancer, they are harmless lumps and changes but you need to see us so we can scan you and examine you to stop your mind worrying. And Suzy has said I was 44, I had a mastectomy, chemo, radiotherapy, I'm now 77, one of the lucky ones and similarly Nafisa has said, I absolutely recommend going for a mammogram. I was diagnosed with very early stages of breast cancer in September 2018. I was cancer-free in January 2019. A

mastectomy with reconstruction, no chemotherapy, I'm thriving, the oncologist told me, if I hadn't have had my mammogram I would never have known and I could have died. You have mentioned men as well and it is relevant to point out isn't it Liz that men can get breast cancer too, they might have a different makeup in terms of their breast tissue but obviously they do have breasts as well. Yes about one in three hundred men get breast cancer and often that's a small lump near the nipple or nipple bleeding so if you do have a change and you're a man please go and get it checked out because it does happen. Liz it's always lovely to talk to you your advice is always just so clear you really know your stuff you are

trained to be able to tell us the relevant things backed up by science backed up by fact so we wish you well thank you very much for coming on the program. That was the excellent Liz O'Riordan. She is somebody who has been there in every way actually. She is a breast surgeon and a survivor of breast cancer. So I hope that has, and I'm particularly, Fee and I were both particularly keen to talk about the L. MacPherson fandango and just to nail the fact that all that nonsense is just so utterly irresponsible. So our thanks to Liz for taking part. Jane Mulcarens. Thank you. Thank you for having me. See you tomorrow.

I don't know. I think you're distracted. I think you're worried about next week. I am distracted and worried. I am distracted and worried about next week. It really, whichever neighbourhood I was in felt very indicative of what was going to happen. So when I was at the Harris rally it felt incredibly optimistic. When I was in my brother's lovely neighbourhood in Atlanta, he lives in a neighbourhood full of young families, you know, which is... Regular folks. Regular, well, yes regular folks but also indicative of the changing demographics of cities like Atlanta. So lots of people have moved there from the northeast, lots of people who are immigrants, Harris flags and badges and signposts in every garden. You know, women on the school run giving out

badges saying regulate guns on women. And then you drive out into the suburbs and it's junk flags everywhere. So I would, you know, and it is neck and neck statistically. So I said she was going to win and then Yves just said, well, you shouldn't ever say anything because Mystic Garb is shit. Yeah, should we just head your bets for a bit? Can I just, Bridget, let's cut that bit out where I think she's gonna be. Yeah, she can edit it.

Can she? I don't know if she can. Well, we're back tomorrow. In the absence of Fee, she continues to be part of our email address and she'll be back on Monday, I need to say. Our guest tomorrow on Offair. She's even more than just an email address.

She's just part of the email address. Our guest tomorrow on Offair is the Hairy Biker, Cy King. So looking forward to that. I know he's lovely. So it's Jane and Fee at times.radio. I'm going to put on my Harris Walls cap right now. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the

free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. Can trees help us grow more resilient to climate change? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can. Dr. Suzanne Simard and her team are connecting our future to nature. Their mother tree project could transform how we manage forests, capturing more carbon and safeguarding biodiversity for generations to come. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward,

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