Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Quite a lot of Monty-Donery out there...

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Wimbledon dates have got Jane's head in a spin so do bear with us... Once that's sorted, Jane and Fi chat allotments, hospital instructions and trad wives. Plus, in this tennis special, they are joined by TalkSPORT's Lisa O'Sullivan and tennis legend Christine Truman Janes. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'Missing, Presumed' is by Susie Steiner. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

about two tons of sugar for every two gooseberries and then i'll just whip up some cream and an egg white and put it all together okay actually that's thank you for that a bit of solid content um it's part of my trad wife hello hello something slightly different today. We're going to give you a little bit of tennis chat as part of the podcast, which is good, isn't it? Well, we're all sport when you scratch the surface. Yeah, very much so.

I don't start telling us how much you hate tennis again. No, it's not that I hate tennis. Wimbledon is absolutely part of the... Lots of people really love it. No, no, it's part of the... The Wimbledon thing is just part of the fabric of the year, but because they've moved it, it slightly messes with my mind. It used to be starting the week before.

Yes. And now it's the week later, and for some reason I'm still not irritated, but it gets me every... I think, oh, but it should have started last week. It used to straddle the end of June, beginning of July. Yeah, no, they moved it forward. I think this year, and I'm not being critical,

and we'll find out what our guests say, it just seems to have been a bit low-key. I don't know. Is it the weather? What do you think? Well, I've really enjoyed it, so I'm not really experiencing that vibe of it's low-key. The turnout doesn't seem to be great.

Some of that, I think the All England Club have said, is is down to the weather i.e. they have sold the tickets and there are queues of people wanting to go on to the courts but because the weather's so rubbish they're not staying on all of the courts obviously there's no British interest anymore but we're quite used to that we had more British interest this year that we have had for a while but they just haven't made it through and i don't know i mean is it because of the change in the dates does it mean i don't know more people have already gone on their holidays this week i mean i suppose a little bit of it could be that i suppose it's because the euros are going on yeah as well probably takes a bit of a yeah so who knows but but there have been a couple of absolutely cracking matches

that I've watched, including last night's with Djokovic. Ruga! Which wasn't the best match in terms of incredible, adventurous tennis. And it only went to three sets. So Djokovic won in straight sets. But it was amazing to see this... I think he's only 20. And he's beaten Djokovic twice already,

although not on grass. So when he went on court, there was a bit of you thinking, oh, this could be a topple. And there's nothing like watching a topple, especially when it's Djokovic, who I don't, I mean, you know, I think you felt exactly the same way.

I think I ended up describing him this morning on the breakfast programme as a twerp, and I'm going to stick to that. Because he was incredibly ungracious at the end. He had a go at the crowd because he said they'd been booing him. And actually, it's probably more likely they were Ruger supporters. He does seem quite thin-skinned. Oh, really thin-skinned. And you just, there's just something about the way that he does it, actually,

because Murray's been thin-skinned in the past, but we've really loved him. So I don't know. For me, it's the COVID thing with him. Yeah, I can't be doing with vaccine deniers. And every time we mention this in the podcast, we get emails from people saying, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to vaccine. Those people are out there.

They really are. Yeah. Anyway, this is an email that I think i've read before and i've heard this story before and i i'm not sure whether i believe it's entirely true the instructions post up yes do you think you've heard this before i have heard it before and um i think when we've put it out there before we've had emails back from people saying, no, exactly the same instructions are given. Go for it, we'll see. OK, this is from Sarah who's in Carlisle.

And Sarah's had an operation on her spine. And I hope you're feeling better, Sarah. But she says, I thought you might be interested to hear that one of the instructions I was given on my rehab following my discharge from hospital was, weeks one to three, begin light dusting but no hoovering. I asked whether male patients get the same sheet of instructions and i was told that they didn't i wasn't able to get hold of a male

version but i wonder if your listeners might like to guess what would be on their list now i suppose actually this also fits in the conversation with the conversation we were having yesterday about the trad wives thing we've got some good emails on that as well haven't we but i mean can that really be true in the nhs in 2024 that that would be a female specific list of instructions upon hospital discharge i don't know because i have been fortunate enough not to have an operation recently not recently what are you tapping your forehead for touch it i'm sorry my age absolutely you can't be too careful. So let's just chuck it out there to our professionals because we know that we've got quite a lot of medical professionals

who are listening to this, so they would be able to tell us. But I think we have had that corrected in the past where people have said men do get exactly the same thing. But maybe they used to get one that just said, watch golf for two play weeks then watch football and then very gently go to a rotary club dinner do you remember how do you remember this and this is this did happen the very famous but i can't remember his name anymore golf commentator who once was he was commentating on the end of the british whatever it is whispering

peter i think that's him peter the open yeah um and he said something about uh it was quite a tight finish and there'd been an extra hole or something you should ask your lady to good lady to hold the t-bone or something like that because you just thought oh my god this was within living memory it really wasn't more than five or six years ago. And he actually said it. I think he was a little bit of a one of the old school, shall we say. I think we just have to call them dinosaurs, don't we? Yes, we've had a lot of very interesting correspondence about trad wives.

I'm going to go in with Kerry's email, which says, Hello, I have no issue with people enjoying baking bread or even scrubbing toilets to each their own. But the version of trad wives that I've seen in America doesn't just promote enjoying being a homemaker, but encourages complete financial dependence on a husband. Further, it comes across as very judgmental of women

that don't want to stay at home with their children, often suggesting that not being a trad wife is unchristian, not biblical or not what God wants or what Peter Alice wants. Kerry says, I've been a divorce attorney in California for over 26 years and I've had many cases where a woman has been out of the workforce for many years and then finds a middle age that she will not have enough money after a divorce to live at a decent standard of living. I have had more than one person, usually but not always, a woman learn only after divorce that they are broke. And you go on to give us quite a few examples of where this ends up being incredibly painful and difficult.

And basically, women who've devoted their lives to the role of the trad wife then find themselves just completely bankrupt if their husband decides that they'd like to move on to trad wife number two, three, four, five, six, or whatever it is. So thank you for pointing that out.

I think actually our original correspondent though wasn't uh noting the very religious kind of uh what do i call them uh motivation yes thank you thank you i think that's what you yes it was more the lifestyle the lifestyle kind of thing especially on the instagram yeah and as we said, the revenue-producing lifestyle, which is not, there's nothing trad about making money out of being a trad wife. Anyway, this is another email along the same lines. It just fills me with a deep anxiety, says our correspondent, when I hear the term trad wife.

Just couldn't have done it. I love being a mother. I work very hard to get where I am in my profession and I love the challenge, variety and satisfaction that my job brings. Until recently, I would also have said that I love being a wife, taking on a large part of the childcare and the home responsibilities and supporting my husband in building his career while still working myself. Then my world fell apart. I discovered that he cheated on me with multiple women throughout our marriage. I chose to leave because I couldn't ever find a way to trust or respect him again despite his attempts to make amends. It was devastating.

I count myself lucky every day that I was able to leave. I am financially stable, I have confidence and I recognise there's a world outside my marriage. I got all stable. I have confidence. And I recognize there's a world outside my marriage. I got all of that from having a career. I wouldn't judge anybody for wanting to be a trad wife. I just find it terrifying that women are voluntarily putting themselves in a situation where leaving may not be an option for them. If their husband turns out not to be the man they believed him to be which is exactly what your email yeah was more than hinting at because that's somebody who's actually practiced in the law uh connected to all this so yeah that's that's the risk you're taking isn't it well it is and

actually um carrie just wants to make this very emphatic point i could give you countless stories of women stuck at the end of a marriage in a terrible financial situation whenever i see trends encouraging young women to give up their careers and to blindly rely on someone else to take care of them or worse guilting them into it it makes me livid so that is the warning isn't it but you can never see what's going to come around the corner and i don't know jane and you can't always um you can't live your life expecting the worst you shouldn't have to do that and i still think just referring back to our original emailer that if it's what makes you tick then you shouldn't feel bad about doing it if you want to stay home raise kids make that your life work i mean it is it is job, raising kids and keeping a home.

It just is a job. And how awful that immediately, through example, we've had to go into the darker place, which is somebody is taking the mickey out of your life in allowing you to do that whilst they cheat. That's just sad. That's not a guarantee. There's certainly no guarantee that that will happen to you

and it probably won't, but you have to bear in mind... But it could. That it could. And it does. Yeah, and it has happened. Right, I just want to talk, something positive about allotments from Nafisa. Oh, take us to vegetables, please.

She's got an allotment and they grow everything there. Lots of fresh veg, peas, beans, corn, chillies. Lots of it is stored potatoes, leeks, carrots, onions, garlic. Then we eat stuff in season, the strawberries, the gooseberries, the red currants. Please tell us what you do with gooseberries. What would you do with gooseberries? Oh, well, I'd make a really lovely gooseberry full with about two tonnes of sugar for every two gooseberries.

And then I'd just whip up some cream and an egg white and put it all together. Okay, actually, thank you for that bit of solid content. It's part of my trad wife recipe. It's good to say that. Hello. Every Christmas, Nafis's doing the chutneys made from chilies peppers garlic tomatoes onions and herbs now that i could get some i could get behind i'd

love a chutney um there are so many community gardens up and down the country use them she says um the problem is as actually tom heap said yesterday allotments used to be working class and now they're very much a middle class preserve and he just wants to know why and how that's happened it definitely has happened um and it you know it's weird i mean there used to be lots of allotments around where i grew up in liverpool and i i don't know whether they still are and i don't know whether if there are it's the same sort of people using them yeah um i'm and i'm not going to deny that change at all because I think allotments have become you know what's the right word

I can't speak to it and that's quite funny isn't it they have become the preserve of the linen wearing kind of Monty Don's not wearing quite a lot of Monty Donnery out there doesn't an awful lot of that have to do with with just being time poor and cash poor?

And, you know, if you are working at the minimum wage, you know, probably you're working shifts as well. And you simply don't have the time to go and tend lovingly to your garden. Time is obviously needed here. Go and tend lovingly to your garden. Time is obviously needed here. And I think somebody, I think, said yesterday, the waiting list for allotments, they can be in decades before you can get one.

Yeah. So anyway, I'm really interested in allotments. So if you have got one and you're lucky enough to have one, like Nafisa, do tell us what you grow and whether you give the stuff away, whether you use it all yourselves, whether you sell it. I mentioned Yorkshire the other day, but we were discussing the size of Yorkshire, weren't we um it's important says jean i won't read your uh pronunciation of your surname only because we don't want to identify you too closely and you

don't want to be linked forever with this podcast which jean probably do you no favors in high society in yorkshire but thank you very much for the email uh she says um it reminded me of the 2012 olympics when the county of yorkshire would have finished 12th in the medal table had it been an independent country. Seven golds, two silvers and three bronzes. I mean, that's phenomenal. She does say, either of you fancy being on Ian Dale's For The Many podcast? Now there is a vacancy.

Jean, I'm a big fan of that podcast. I think I couldn't be on it because I don't think I'm the right fit. I don't think I'm the right fit. But I do enjoy listening. And he's got some irons in the fire, hasn't he? Yes. We can't say any more, can we? Yes.

No. I don't know what to say because we both know. I mean, there are more than irons in the fire. Well. Absolute bloomin' pokers in there. Yes, Ian Dale, for it in case you don't know, is a kind of showbiz radio pal of ours, works for LBC, and he's been doing a podcast for many years with Jackie Smith,

former Labour Home Secretary, former MP for Redditch, which I happen to know from my local radio days. And she's had to leave, or she's going to have to leave. Well, because she's been elevated. She's only been put in the House of Lords so Ian is looking for a new co-presenter and I think it would be fair to say he's been inundated

because it's a fabulous podcast and you're not actually human you don't have a beating heart unless you've got a podcast these days in the world of showbiz and politics here comes Olivia who says I thought the word plumber comes from plumbum, which is Latin for lead, as pipes used to be made of lead.

You're absolutely right, Livia. Several people have told us this. Saying something is fixed plum is because it was a lead weight hanging on a string being perfectly vertical, which was used to check straightness. Now, Livia says, I'm not a plumber. It doesn't matter. I mean, I think we've all employed a says, I'm not a plumber. It doesn't matter.

I mean, I think we've all employed a plumber who's not a plumber. Indeed. So why not be not a plumber and write to us about plumbing things? Certainly, the various people have had a go at my shower drain over the years. Well, Livia says it has crossed her mind to train. I'd make far more than my typesetting work makes. And it's a very good idea. Totally.

I mean, that's such a good idea. And I do that young women uh at school are encouraged to get into plumbing hugo rifkin's at the door well he can stay there very unfriendly today um no plumbing would be i think there is um i think they're called stopcocks aren't they the lady plumbers i've seen them on the socials no they do exist do they yeah yeah and i think they do i think they do rather well because for a multitude of reasons some people would prefer not to have a man they don't know in the house i mean and again not to be too negative because obviously 99.9 of male plumbers are absolutely fine but there are particularly older people perhaps might prefer to have a lady plumber instead i would if i can find a lady work person then i will always go for the lady work person

just for exactly that reason that i know that most men are trustworthy but i do sometimes feel quite vulnerable and it's not only the physical vulnerability in your own home it really is the somebody standing in front of me uh you know with a massive tool belt and enormous biceps telling me that something costs 14 times as much as it should do. And I still don't, at the age of 55, feel empowered and knowledgeable enough to say, bugger off, mate. Yeah, because you said it would be a lot less than that.

You're taking the mick. And I just don't think that I would feel so vulnerable if it was women doing the job. Discuss. Yeah, to be discussed. Tennis. We all love a bit of Wimbledon, we really do, but it is traditional, we have to own this,

that there are very few British players who progress into the second week of Wimbledon. Andy Murray and Emma Raducanu have been the shining lights, of course, of British tennis in recent times. But we know that Sir Andy is on the point of retirement and Emma Raducanu is struggling. She really is struggling to return to the heights that made her that incredible sensation, the teenage US Open champion. So in a moment, we're going to reflect on all this with a British tennis great, former French Open winner and Wimbledon semi-finalist Christine Truman James, James I'm sorry, but first let's just talk to Talk Sports Lisa O'Sullivan

who is at Wimbledon. Is it fair to say Lisa that this has been just, I'm not going to use the adjective dull, but it hasn't been a stellar Wimbledon has it, in part because of the weather? I think largely because of the weather and I think it's caused a few polls and withdrawals, retirements that maybe we wouldn't have had if it had been blistering sunshine. I've forgotten what sunshine's like, to be honest. The only sun we've had here this weekend, as Stefano Sitsipas reminded us,

was Lulu's son, who has just gone out in the quarterfinals. Oh dear. Oh yeah. It's happening. For tennis fans, there's been some absolutely cracking tennis but wimbledon this year has become an indoor tournament and that's not what it is it should be played out in the open the wind should be blowing um we should hear the planes on their approach to heathrow but we've got the roof shut the only thing we're really hearing at the moment is the rain drumming down on the roof it's that really has completely affected the whole atmosphere around

the grounds and I know we're talking about singles there about the Brits not progressing massively far through but we do forget that we have some excellent doubles players especially on the men's side and also the wheelchair competition which is due to start today as well Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid are world beaters. Yeah, and you're absolutely right to mention that, and I'm glad you have. Sometimes it feels like the wrong people are occupying the best seats at Wimbledon. And we know that there are all the prawn sandwich brigade and the hospitality crowd. But also sometimes there's a negative approach to certain players. And Djokovic yesterday, well, let's just own it.

He's not popular, is he? A lot of British people just don't like him. I know, and it's ridiculous. And I have this problem myself because when I see him play, he is magnificent. He is such a great player. Just got to say, Yannick Sinner, the world number one, he's playing on centre court at the moment, just being escorted off court. He's going off for a medical timeout.

I'm not quite sure what that's all about. But, yeah, it's difficult because he plays incredible tennis. He's the greatest tennis player of all times. And yet, I don't like him. I try to. And he does amazing things. He looks after younger players and stuff like that. But then when he does things like last night, and he does amazing things. He looks after younger players and stuff like that. But then when he does things like last night,

and he had a point, because I think there were a certain, it was like a Mexican wave going around Centre Court. First of all, one person was calling, and it sounded like booing, and I kind of looked up, and then there was a couple, and then there were a few more, and it kind of went like a Mexican wave around Centre Court. And of course, people who've been enjoying the hospitality here thought it was very funny to kind of join in and it got louder and louder it got a bit distracting but they were jumping on because it was an opportunity to to boo

novak djokovic which was really unfortunate and i think if it had been federer or it would never happen to roger federer obviously but but if it had been to someone else they would have just laughed it off but kind of taking issue with the crowd on centre court is not going to be good. Well, it's just not tennis, is it? No. Right. Thank you very much, Lisa. Fantastic. Lisa O'Sullivan of Talk Sport,

who's just a brilliant expert on all matters tennis. And here's somebody else who is. Former French Open champion, Christine Truman-Janes. Christine, hello. Welcome again to the programme. brilliant expert on all matters tennis and here's somebody else who is former french open champion christine truman james christine hello welcome again to the program i'd love you to talk to you um do you think it's ever right to jeer at a player as they did at wimbledon yesterday no it was unfortunate i was there and i saw it and it did say I was with my daughter and I said, oh, are they booing? She said, no, they're saying room. Now, obviously, Djokovic didn't like it and made it quite clear in his after match speech. But I have to say that I actually met Djokovic two years ago in Paris.

And he was sitting playing Ludo before his centre court match, which I thought quite extraordinary. He was with his team playing this board game. And my French Patrick there said, come and meet Djokovic. And I said, well, he's busy at the moment. She said, no. So I went over. And in Paris, I have to wear a very big notice across my chest, which says, Ancien Champion, 1959, which is a bit of a shock for people.

And so I went up with this badge. And in this country, we would say former champion or past champion, but no, French, it's Ancien. And he took one look. Anyway, he left his game of Ludo, jumped up, shook my hands, and said, oh, congratulations. What was it like then? And well done.

And what are you doing? It was quite chatty. And like you, I'm not not a fan, but I've never been a fan. But I was completely converted because he was such a gentleman. And just meeting him like that changed my thoughts. But I didn't like it last night when he picked up on that behaviour in the crowd. He'd won the match in three sets, so he wasn't going to gain anything more, and it was a pity just not to have left it at that.

But that's the side of him that one sees and doesn't like. Yeah, I completely agree, Christine, and I was very surprised, actually, on court after the match that he was quite so ticky because he'd won in straight sets. And actually, his opponent, Holger Rooney, is, I think, only just 20 years old. I mean, he had put on a magnificent display. It hadn't gone his way at all. He'd been completely trounced by the older, more experienced, more successful tennis player. And it just didn't seem like a very good display of the sport, actually, to have said all of that. Can we move it on, though, to talk about some of the other players at the tournament this year, particularly and rather obviously Emma Raducanu. Did you watch her final game when she went out against Lulu Sun? Yes, I did.

I was so excited to see Lulu Sun because she was a grass court player. We don't see that much now. She's a left-hander with a big serve and just hit everything, came to net when she could. And I don't know whether Emma Raducanu expected anything like that, whether she underestimated her opponent who had qualified,

played three rounds of qualifying. I don't know. But Emma really was sort of taken back on her heels. I don't think she ever really was able to cope with Lulu. But it's exciting to see somebody new. And Emma is still coming back. She had won three matches. So it was progress,

as she said in her interview. She's making progress, and that's what counts. Do you see the potential for a truly great tennis player in Emma Raducanu? Well, I have to be honest and say that she's not lightweight, but she's a light frame. And although she's trying very, but she's a light frame. And although she's trying very hard to be more dominant and more power-packed, it's very difficult for her

because it's not her natural background. And she's a lovely hitter of the ball, a very smooth person to watch the way she plays. But there's no big shot there. There's no big thump that you think, oh gosh, that's going to really see her home. That'll win her matches. And so it's questionable whether she has that extra bit of oomph

to be one of the greats. She does seem, and I hesitate to say this, to be physically somewhat fragile. She's had so many injuries and she is very young, which I think probably indicates that your assessment is absolutely spot on, Christine, that she's perhaps just not strong enough. Exactly. I mean, I can relate to the age element because I myself had my best results when I was young. And like her, I won a Grand Slam at 18 and was in the semi-finals of Wimbledon. And sort of it does mean you sort of grow up with everybody watching, which is quite strange. Although I was most I was motivated by being successful.

And it didn't mean that I was sort of sacrificing anything or missing anything because I was enjoying what I was doing so much. But for her, she seemed to get swept aside with lots of endorsements. I never had any endorsements like that, and I can't pretend to be as good-looking as Emma. She's obviously advertising lots of things, but there was no money in my day. But I think she can take a look, perhaps, at the role models of Carlos and Sina, who both have won Grand Slams at a young age. And it hasn't changed their course. They've gone on trying to get better,

trying to play the game that they love. And she seems to have got slightly distracted with a lack of continuation with coaches. And it's made it difficult for her. And now it's very difficult, I have to say, to come back. Yeah. I don't want to be too parochial, but I'll be right to mildly despair at the lack of British talent apparently coming through. It's not to say that there's nobody at all.

I know Jack Draper is a huge talent. But on the whole, tennis remains the preserve of the middle classes in this country doesn't it it certainly does cost money to play the game i have to say that i've done a lot of coaching myself and certainly when players get to a certain age of 12 13 when it's going to cost a bit more money to have the equipment have the coaching travel to venues and then you see them taking coming to me and saying i'm sorry but i'm going to take up football now and you can see that that is easier it's a team game and the kit is not so expensive and it's an easier outcome altogether and I can quite understand that and see that. Whereas tennis, you have got to have a bit of finance and funding behind you, much as the LGA try and help with academies and sorting out who's going to be good.

It's very hard to pick who's going to be good, to be honest, at 11 and 12. And so it's not easy to predict that we will have players coming through thick and fast. But also, Christine, don't you think the story of the Murray family tells us a lot as well, doesn't it? That you have to have parental backing. Tennis involves travelling to tournaments. parental backing. Tennis involves travelling to tournaments, it involves a lot of support and they, both Andy and Jamie, know that they would not have got where they have got to without Judy and Will being completely and utterly behind them. Absolutely. A lot of players have come from a family of sport or tennis and have that background already. I have to say I was number five with six children and had to wait my turn because I had four older brothers and sisters who were quite good players and they didn't want to let me join in. And my first ambition was to be good enough to join in with them.

But they always told me I was no good and couldn't join their games. But I did eventually get there, but my parents were able to give us coaching. And I think that was an important turning point for me when I had my first lesson, partly because the sister older than me was ill and I hoped she wouldn't get better. So, you know, it's a certain amount of luck along the way, but I wouldn't say we were flush with money either. But my parents were keen to give me the opportunity and made it possible to sort of, the tournaments were much more London based. I'm an Essex girl, which made it easier for my mother to get me to tournaments nearby.

So, you know, things were more possible for me. Lovely to talk to you. Thank you very much for sparing us the time. We really appreciate it. Christine Truman-Janes, former French Open winner. And it was interesting that she gets to wear that emblem or sticker. Old, old tennis player alert. Old person coming through. Ancien does sound better, actually. Or does it? I don't know. that emblem or sticker. Old, old tennis player alert.

Old person coming through. Ancien does sound better, actually. Or does it? I don't know. Anyway, fantastic to talk to her. And thank you very much, Christine. Well, it's like what they put on your notes, isn't it? If you give birth in a hospital in the UK and you're slightly old, they scrawl. Oh, yeah. Prima Gravida all over it.

Yeah, that's it. Let's hope for sunnier climbs at Wimbledon over the next couple of days before it all finishes. Well, we might have the most banging Sunday of sport and I defy even you not to enjoy what could be a warm-up to the football.

So let's give it some welly, Jane. Yeah, we just can't quite go there yet just in case. Because I'm sure those Dutch people have been practising. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I wouldn't rule out England not winning tomorrow, sorry. Jane and Fi at times.radio. Cheer up. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

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