Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Really fruity stuff!

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Happy Monday! Jane’s been putting her pipes to good use over the weekend, and she brings a flavour of it to this episode… aren’t you lucky? Jane and Fi also chat butter wars, claggy swallows, handwriting, and Le Creuset. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. The original music for The Greatest Showman is by Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton. You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I've just taken a big bite or something. Welcome to Monday's off air. Fee has a mouthful. Of what, may we ask? It's very unprofessional. Well, I had a sudden craving for a little bit of sweetness. Right. What did you get?

She still can't speak. No, I'm just aware of the fact. It's really disgusting. I know. People don't like it. Especially if you're listening on very deep ear butts, and somebody's doing one of those claggy swallows. Nobody wants to claggy swallow No, nobody wants a claggy swallow

I tell you what, one thing we have We've proved beyond all doubt That the butter dish is back Some people say it never went away This is why people reach out for us For our controversial content We go to places, no other podcast Even ventures vaguely

In the direction of the butter dish Well, I would say that the butter dish It really has gone away Because of spreadable butter So you had to have a butter dish Didn't you in the old days? because you couldn't put butter in the fridge and bring it out and they'd be able to spread it.

And then along came the spreadables and things that were much better for your heart. And so the butter dish probably took a little bit of a dip. But now we're back because the end of the world is nice. We might as well eat butter. And also people now speak up for good fats, don't know? They do. Yeah. So anyway, thank you very much for it.

We've had some full-bodied imagery of butter dishes, which I've really hugely enjoyed. But I think the email, and we've had so many, thank you all so much for taking the time. I just love this little, This little nugget from Croatian life, from a listener who I hope I'm pronouncing this vaguely right, Surrecha. Surrecha, I hope that's right.

I hope I haven't been really offensive there. Long-time listener, first-time email. I was in Croatia at the weekend chatting to relatives, and the subject of giving blood came up. I did mention last week that I got this badge that I'm not entitled to wear because I've only given nine times, not ten. I shared how attentive everyone is when you go and give blood in the UK, because you get biscuits and juice before and I. after and I really like the orange clubs. And they said in Croatia, until recently,

after you donated there, you get a glass of red wine and a salami. I'd prefer that. I just think that's brilliant. But isn't it interesting that you get a savoury? I'd much rather you got a savoury. And to be honest, I think I'd be more likely to... And my blood donation has lapsed recently. And I would be more likely to go back

if I thought that there was going to be perhaps a little somosa. and some low-alcohol lager on offer. Now, you haven't done dry January, but I know that Young Eve was doing dry January. Did your dry January turn into a damp January because that was the headline today that because the world is so gloomy and horrible at the moment. People haven't made it through dry January.

They've already just had to have a drink. My dry January was extremely dry. Yes. But then that meant that this weekend was rather wet. And so do you find when you have that first big bender overnight, are we allowed to call it a big bender? You may. Thank you.

I don't want to gas dispersion. I can't say anything these days. So when you have that big bender, is the hangover better because you have actually given the rest of your body and particularly your liver a little bit of a break from? No, hit me like a ton of bricks. Worse. Oh, God.

This is exactly why I didn't want to do this. But there we are. Yeah. And yeah, I did do it and I did enjoy it. So I went to lovely, lovely mum's night thing on Friday night, which was the penultimate day before. No, you can even work for it. We didn't even have a whole lot of time. Turn out of.

We had a lovely mum's drink. We hadn't seen each other since before Christmas and it was the penultimate night before dry January could finish. So there was plenty of opportunity and impetus for everyone to go, oh, come on, let's just not dry January. I mean, who cares, you know, 24 hours difference? But actually, two of us in the group have enjoyed it. much and I'm one of those

that I'm not sure that I want to go back into wet February and I'm not saying that to garner some, you know, amazing praise for my fastidious nature or whatever but it's just been great Jane What's been great? Not having any of the symptoms associated with any kind

of drinking. Yes. When you get to our age it's actually there are no, you don't get Scott free away if that makes any sense from any amount of alcohol in my experience. No and I exactly that and I did hear Gabby Logan talking on her podcast about the fact that now when she has a drink, she feels hung over as she's having the drink because she just... She's anticipating it.

Yes. And, you know, your body really does change. So it's a weird thing. I think for the last year, certainly, I've been testing myself to see whether maybe it's because it's August that I'm feeling particularly hungover or maybe it's because I, you know, was working hard in September that I'm feeling particularly hungover. and my hangovers are created by one glass of wine now and I think actually I may just have reached the point of

can't be bothered anymore so I wonder whether anybody else is experiencing that or whether actually I will just fall flat on my face and halfway through February well we'll keep track of it which is the month of birthdays as well in the family too I don't think I'm not already preparing well I think that's very unlikely

but yeah dry January stories would be absolutely fantastic and also should we pop out a serious thing that if you've stopped drinking for good because it was problematic for you to drink, how do you regard dry January? Because it's a little bit of a kind of day trip into sobriety, isn't it, for people? And if that's a struggle for you, I wonder what you think of it. So it's put it all out there. We did have an email, didn't we, over the weekend,

from somebody who wants to stay anonymous, who hasn't drunk, I think they said for four nights, four days, keep at it. I mean, I think you're doing the right thing for you based on what you said in the email. those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to dip our toes into alcohol it's just not the same as acknowledging that you for whatever reason and through no fault of your own you have a dependency yeah no definitely and that's what I mean I think it must be quite a problematic time dry January when everybody's able to laugh about it

and like it's a choice I'll stay not drinking lots of us it is yeah for people who it doesn't so thoughts about that would be absolutely fantastic and also if anybody has a good recommendation for a genuinely nice tasting alcohol-free wine, I've yet to find that. I haven't found it either. Alcohol-free beer, to me, just ticks the box and makes me feel like I'm having a treat because that's so much better than it used to be. So do, yes, keep your thoughts coming on this.

Jane and Fee at Times Dot Radio. And also just one thing, because I know that you need to get going and I'm actually just trying, dear, dear listeners, I'm on your side here. I'm just trying to delay the point at which Jane's going to sing. dozen podcasts. I might not, but I might play you what I took part. Oh no, I want live singing. No, no. No, I want live singing.

Well, I just need to say over the course of the weekend and it was I totally knew experience to me. Can I just put it in my tiny question? Is anybody putting margarine in the butter dish? I don't think you should. Carry on. Please don't. Carry on. But perhaps some people are.

I want to read out some very important butter dish emails a little bit later on. Now, over the weekend took part in an event in Gloria Malvin for a really good charity, the Mockingbird Trust, the Anna Wilkinson Mockingbird Trust, you can look it up if you are inclined to do so. But it's a good local charity that supports young people who have a cancer diagnosis and it pays for them to go to shows and have experiences and take their family along with them. So it's a small charity, but it's a really good one. And they just had a great idea at the weekend. I confess, one of those things I'd agree to

many, many months ago through a very good friend of mine, I just went, yes, I'll do it, yes. And then the day actually dawned. And I was telling Eve earlier, I was in a room with 600 other people for 11 hours, learning some songs from a musical that I had no knowledge of whatsoever the greatest showman. We battled, I have to say, with some incredibly patient and gifted choir mistresses. What's the belter from The Greatest Showman? Thank you. It was on one of our podcast playlist, wasn't it?

asking. Well, I think there's any, oh gosh, it's difficult to say. This is me. This is me. That's it. Yeah, I think that's probably enough. But let me just pay you a tiny burst of what we accomplished after a very, very long day. But I've been in choirs in school, but not since. Do you like community, communal singing? I love it, but I'm so hopeless. People back away. No, I'm no good either. And obviously, I was right at the back and I self-identified. I can see you. No, no, they couldn't. Well, they've done. Well, I've I'm not that daft. I went right at the back with my friend. I sat with my friend. We were both right at the back. She's quite musical and has quite a good voice. I'm neither musical, nor do I have a good voice. You can hear me, can you? You see, I'm throwing everything at this. Yeah, and further on, building till climax, folks.

Can you hear me now? Well, that gives you a flavour. And it was, I don't know why you're laughing. It was actually a bridge. experience. So well done to everybody who organised the event, raise the money. I also won in the raffle. So good day all round for me. I think that's great, Jane. I'm not going to be rude about that. I think communal singing is fabulous for the spirit. And I mean, who cares? That sounded great. No, but who cares if it doesn't sound absolutely great? I mean, it was just, it was a genuinely positive thing to do. Did you do a discount or an alto? No, I said self-identified as a high alto, which I sort of may be,

but I think I'm more of a middle alto, really. I think you're a baritone. Well, some women did sing, is it, bass? An octave lower. You won't be surprised to hear that most people who took part were women. Why would that be a surprise? Well, I mean, I think it would have been,

there were some men, and I think they're probably over the, I'm just trying to think there was six, about 600 of, I would say, of the 600 who took part in the communal singing, I would say perhaps 50 were men, So we did need more women to sing the lower parts. I think you could do it.

You clearly could. You should have had you there. And at the end of the day, I celebrate it by, and I only go sort of literally twice a year, but I did go to McDonald's on Saturday night afterwards, and I have to say. Sometimes it hits the spot. I'm going to keep a check on this,

because whenever you go to McDonald's, you always say, I only go twice a year. And I think you tell us that story about seven or eight times. But it's a new year, isn't it? It is, yes. But that's why I'm going to keep a check on it. Well, I'm entitled to one more visit. Yes, no, that's fine.

I don't know why you're putting yourself down for, you know, only going twice. Yes, right. You have a perfectly balanced diet. Pop in for a... Do you know, I don't like their vegetarian alternatives. I've never had one of those. No good? No, I think just too rubbery.

And somebody just needs to come up with something that's not the vegan burger. It's not working. And as we've said before, I mourn the loss of the proper spicy beanburger from Burger King, which was a staple of the return journey from the heart of London's West End of a Saturday night, forward slash Sunday morning. And they don't do them anymore. They've gone down that kind of, you know, squidgy, vegany, mushroomy thing. It's not the same.

No, it's not. I agree with you about bean burgers. They were actually underrated. Very underrated. And I bet with modern technology, you could probably fashion a really good bean burger. Yeah. Get to it. And it's, yes, because it's got a nice amount of texture when you fry it,

but the mushroomy thing, it hasn't got enough edges, has it, to pick up the fat? I always put mushrooms in my vegan bolognais, and they have quite meaty, little meaty, they kind of come over as a little bit of a meaty addition to a bolognais. They're good in that context. But we don't want to diss the mushroom. We've offended enough people over the course of our careers. Let's leave fungi alone.

Let's leave the fungi alone. It's my motto. It's been in a very good stead. Yes. We need to say hello to Fair Shell. You've sent a lovely email and thank you for your kind thoughts about our interviewing style on the programme.

And we're happy, I think, with not being the consummate interruptors that some interviewers are. And it works in some places, doesn't it? I think when you're trying to push a politician up against the wall, they're not giving you a straight answer. Yeah, and you've only got five minutes. It needs to be there.

but we are afforded a lovely luxury of time, aren't we, on the podcast and the afternoon show. So we're glad that you like it. Actually, if you got the email to hand about our change of direction and the visuals coming in, because I think we should probably have a chat about that too. But Fairchild, very much enjoying Eve as well. I'm saying this because it just embarrasses Eve in the most delightful way. And it's a true embarrassment. It's not a kind of faux-humble thing.

So Fair Shell says she's firing away the best stand, you've ever had. Eve is literally he's just looking into the middle distance now. So all our stand-ins are lovely though so there's there's nothing I think it's just what one listener has email

to ask how Eve's driving is going. Oh yes the driving since the much celebrated passing of the driving test. Do we have any comment on that? Here she is. No comment. Right. Any points? No points but I think if there were

to be some driving, there probably would be points. Okay, well, let's keep off the road. Well, after the weekend you've had, I'd leave it till at least Wednesday, love, as well. So, anyway, we hope you enjoy all formations in the podcast, that's what we're saying. Yes, all iterations, including the onslaught of visualisation, which is not that far off.

Brace yourselves. But also, I don't think, because the correspondent, was it Maria who wrote in to say that she wanted to have a little bit of a chat about it? It is actually, yes. Yeah, go on. So Maria says, I was listening to the Sally Hughes podcast on a forest walk today with Joe Wiley. She was making the point that radio is radio and TV is TV.

She mentioned how much she didn't enjoy the filming aspect that's come along with radio and the effect that it's had on how the interviews went, worth a listen perhaps. I was really hoping you would manage to win the fight against filming of any of your radio show and the podcast. I know things are changing, but does everything really improve by being filmed?

surely that was never the point of radio or actual podcasts. Gosh, I mean, well, it's no secret that we are sort of the view that we're quite happy with the way things were. But we have to, I mean, look, we're very fortunate to be here. It's a good place to be. And sometimes you have to embrace what appears to be change, progress, the way things are. Why not put ourselves out there being as authentic as we can be? in that space. And people might think it's awful.

And then we can learn from that. That's okay, isn't it? I think that's fine. And Maria, I would rest assured, I think as we were saying last week on the podcast, that Jane and I can't really change how we do the stuff that we do in radio studio because we're too long in the tooth.

So if you just switch off the visuals, you won't notice any different in the podcast or the radio show at all. I mean, I think what it will mean is that for people who choose to have the visuals, They'll be shocked and disappointed. Yeah, some people will be really upset. But it is where the eyeballs are, and that's the point of doing it, isn't it?

It's not because we've decided, or this building has decided, that we need to be visualised all the time. It's because the audience have decided that the visual mediums, especially across social media, are the ones that they're choosing to go to. I think the comparison I'd make is everybody bangs on about the high street and how much they miss the old days but everyone goes to the hypermarket in the out-of-town shopping centre.

You're right, we humans, consumers, we drive this change and yeah, there are some people who don't want any part of it, we absolutely get it, carry on listening. Yeah, it won't make a difference to your listening. I really won't. I absolutely promise you. You know, it will remain exactly the same

and the visuals who will be able to laugh at because we're just going to get that wrong quite a lot. So unfortunately those will be the clips that go viral. I mean it is going to be dicey. I just don't want to embarrass my kids. My kids have long since given up.

It's going to be a once a week treat anyway to start with, isn't it? So we let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yeah, it'll be fine. Don't panic everybody. But thank you, Maria, because it was kind of you to give that. Yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting and we don't think we haven't had our own thoughts about this. As you can hear, we certainly have. Could we to sing again? No, thank you.

Actually, no, let's end this email special with just a little bit more from the greatest showment if you can. I'd like you to do it life. I don't want to hear all those other people. This is me. It was right. Yeah, it was.

I earned that quarter pound and let me tell you. Valentine's cookware. So we were asking for some retail opportunities that are being milked ahead of Valentine's Day. And actually my surgery, my GP surgery, which is fantastic, they've made the most of Valentine's Day. So they do a really good job of reaching out on the text, you know, to tell people what's available. What's available?

And they've got lots and lots of really good things that they do in the surgery, apart from just treat us for ailments. And they're making the most of Valentine's Day. But I think they've missed a bit of a trick because it's not a come in and have your heart-checked opportunity. It's just it's Valentine's Day. Be well. Come in and have your tubes tied for Valentine's Day. Treat the misses. But it would have worked, wouldn't it, if it was either sexual health.

Or heart. Funny enough, I don't think... Yes, keep going. Sexual health clinics have reached out. Or do that. Or perhaps, I bet they do, actually. I bet they do. I'm sure they do. Yeah, they will do. I'm sure they do.

Well, if you're in that arena, let us know what you have planned. But you've got a lovely marketing. Oh, yes. So this is from Le Cruise. Do you say Le cruset? Le crusay. Le crusay, yes. Lecruise. This one comes in from Kirsty.

What says, I love you and be mine, more than a Lecruise butter dish and teapot. One to go. with a dog grooming. You're still keeping me going. I'm sending you love to you both. But Jane, thank you for still bringing light joy and wisdom when you've been going through such a tough time. I got there in the end.

Thank you very much. That's very well. So well done, Le Crosay. I don't think, I can't see the butter dish. Oh, I see it's just in the corner of the shop there. Do you like a Lecrucée? I find they're very, very heavy. Do you know what for me?

I don't have any. Oh, my goodness. I know. In East West Kensington. Well, do I? I think I may. I don't. I can't say I find. them any better than, if I'm honest, any other brand of, there was, you know what, I entered

the raffle on Saturday because I wanted a casserole dish. I didn't win it. Somebody else did. It's really annoying. And they went off with it. And apparently it was suitable for Argus as well, but I don't have an Argo, but there was still something about it. I thought, I wish I'd won that. I got tickets to the races. Not bad, though. Well, that's not bad. No, no, no, I'm going. Why didn't you offer to swap them? Maybe the casserole person would have liked to swap. There was a bit of a melee at the end. Awesome. Okay. I very rarely win in a thing

so I was rather delighted with what I did win let's go back to butter dishes if you've won in a raffle let us know No Gwen is in County Down Mostly we've been fans of real butter

And I managed to have a fair hoard in my fridge Before Christmas 2024 I planned to make lavender shortbread One try though And I remembered what a bad baker I am Anyway, we had an ugly but unbreakable orange real Tupperware dish on the go for years. At Christmas, my brother and sister-in-law gave us a new Grange ceramic dish, complete with a cow on top.

I was so pleased with it gracing our table. However, being butter fingered before going near any butter, I'm not sure how long it's going to last. I love all our Irish and Northern Irish butters, goodness me, it is expensive. Yes, Gwen also just adds that it was good that the... podcast has been discussing death and grieving and please thank you for saying or not saying passed away or past no we don't do that we do have we have very few official policies on the podcast but that is one of them uh Gwen thank you very much I hope you hang on to what sounds like a

glorious new new grain ceramic dish with a real cow on top we're not a real cow on top a real a real cow that would challenge any uh any ceramic dish would it I suspect um I always get This is it a picture of one of our BBC colleagues? One of BBC, no. Do you think, I know a lot of Irish people do swear that Irish butter is just better? I mean, I don't know whether it is, whether it's the quality of the grass, what it would be.

Do we want to start that? We don't want to start any explosive arguments about who's got the best butter, but I wonder whether there is something about the quality of the grass in Ireland that the rich Irish grass that may may justify the claim that Irish butter is better than buttering

I like the French one best myself, you know the one that comes in a that's round and it's got huge salty bits in it. Yeah but that's good for a treat but it wouldn't be my everyday choice. It would be mine. Hannah comes in

about watching TV in cinemas and what I wish to write to you today about its three points on the recent off-air agenda. Heated rivalry communal watching and butter dishes. I'm a former teenage, fortunately devotee. Now, Hannah, is only 23 years old. No way, Hannah, should you have been listening to our ramblings

all those years ago when you were 14, because we've been doing this for nine years. That's dangerous, isn't it? It's very, very dangerous. But thank you. Who is unable to keep up with the pace at which new off-air episodes came out, but I've been lured back in by mentions of heated rivalry and recent episode titles

and have since been hopping deftly between 2022 and 2026. I love that. Pick and mix. This brings me right on to both of the first two points in one recent episode, Fiona, discussed the communal watching of TV shows and potential events specifically for watching TV together,

like going to the cinema to watch a film. I'm here to tell you that I recently attended an event to watch all six episodes of heated rivalry back to back in a gay bar in Glasgow. There were indeed 10-minute breaks between episodes to go to the toilet or order at the bar, and what's more, food was being served on the premises.

Yes, there were even themed cocktails on offer. It was definitely a test of stamina, and I was stretching out my legs at my table as much as I could by the end of the seven hours, but overall an afternoon well spent. Now, we were discussing whether or not you could even watch heated rivalry in Eve's case in the company of her flatmates,

and in my case, in the company of my children, I mean, you can't, I couldn't, so Hannah, I mean, how fantastic. Yeah, I was a bit surprised about that. Because, well, I don't know. Well, collective embarrassment? Or is it just that if you're in a group with a large bunch of people, there is no embarrassment because there's that sharing,

slightly giggly thing that takes you through? Well, maybe. But, I mean, it is quite explicit. I still haven't seen it, so I don't know. It is quite explicit, is it? Yes, it is. Yeah, and actually, I was trying to think whether the ratings thing is a bit different as well. I can't remember the last time I went to the cinema

and was really kind of embarrassed by a sex scene. But I think there are quite a few things that I see on TV that seem to go way further than what you would be able to watch in the cinema. Am I right in that? I don't know. Things do seem to have changed. The language on television has definitely changed as well. It can be quite fruity on television these days after 9 o'clock. So I don't know whether the BFBS just has slightly different rules.

Or maybe I'm just not going to the cinema to see really fruity stuff. No. I don't know what you're going to do. Your private life is your own. I'm looking forward to Crime 101, which is Chris Hemsworth and Hallie Berry. And it's a spy caper thriller that's coming out, I think. In time for Valentine's weekend, actually. Because who doesn't want a crime caper on Valentine's weekend? Well, I'd just like to see something. I hope it's not too violent. Have you been watching The Night Manager? No.

Okay. Well, the Night Manager concluded yesterday. I thought it was just dreadful and spoiler alert. Fair enough. I don't think it is the right time in our little geopolitical human life to have a TV show that ends with the really nasty, nasty man getting away with it and the really, really lovely woman getting shot. When I watched it, I just thought, you've not read the room, mate. You've not read the room.

No, but maybe it's real life. Well, maybe. I mean, one of our favourite TV reviewers, Carol Midgley, was praising it for being able to do exactly that, you know, go in a surprising direction instead of wrapping it up in a bow. But also, there was just so much, oh, here comes a person that we don't like,

gone. There was just a lot of shooting and a lot of stuff, and I just found it horrible, actually, Jane. Just horrible. But it's just worth saying, if you do want a TV tip, that we are boat, when you finished it and I'm enjoying the take that documentary on Netflix. Oh, it's brilliant.

So just, you know, you find we don't want it. I mean, had the programme been called the day manager, I might have been more likely to watch it. It was that whole business of working overnight. Staying up overnight. No, it doesn't appeal to me at all. It was irrelevant, actually, in this season two. And of course they've set it up for season three.

But I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to invest my time in it. I was just disappointed by the level of doom, actually. It left me with a feeling of doom. But yes, they take that documentary. Bloody fantastic, Jane. And we shall talk about it when you've seen episode three. It's only three episodes. Yes, I've got a couple more to get through.

But I think it does a really, really good thing in its honesty. So let's talk about that after we've watched it all. Now, I am the head of the Butter Dish Department, so I just want to mention this one from Joe, who says, I bought a very lovely one in TK. Max last year. Now, I do occasionally go to TK. There's always something to, it's quite an intriguing store, I find. If they've had a recent dump of stuff in there, you can buy all sorts of clobber and household accoutrements at good bargain prices.

Anyway, Joe says, I bought a lovely one last year after having our kitchen redone, China dish and a lovely pastel blue with a bamboo lid. It was bought partly to look smart in a newly decluttered era, which didn't last. But also, after our lurcher discovered the new worktops also functioned very nice. as a lurcher-sized plate for the serving of a block butter. Stupidly, though, I left the aforementioned bamboo lid off one time, and the lurcher seized the opportunity the minute my back was turned, front paws up, snout in the dish, and, alas, it all came tumbling down and into smithereens.

I was gutted. I reported the drama to my mother, who said, don't worry, I have a spare I could have. And next time I saw her, she proved to have exactly that, a glass-style butter dish, which I'm sure is at least 35 years old. So questions from me is owning a spare butter dish one of the things that makes you an adult? I would say yes. I mean, your mum does sound, Joe, like an incredibly accomplished woman,

to have a butter dish on standby for the moment your daughter's lurcher attacks her new butter dish. That just show commitment to the mother-in-game, I would say. Well done to your mum. Joe also asks, Am I okay to have a waist height lurcher at a very average height of approximately 5 foot 6? You're the dog person, what's the answer to that? Well, I think it's fine,

but a lurcher's far bouncier than a greyhound, so I don't feel qualified to really affirm your choice. But you'll look good. Yeah, that's for sure. Also, you might say 5'6 is average Joe. It's very tall to ask. It's extremely tall. I call you lanky Joe if I knew you.

Glyn has been in touch again and it is always a good day when we hear from Glyn I think I've just encountered the same edition of a town like Alice as you mentioned Fee I reserved it at my local library and when I turned up to collect it was handing a small hardback affair with an arty cover and gold-edged

pages that was exactly the one that I'm Auckland all very nice I thought but on turning to the front page it was like I've been given that sheet of incredibly small text that the optician gives you to test your near vision. The librarian took a quick look and exclaimed well that's just ridiculous. It's like something from a 1960s spy film and is now sourcing me a large print

version. I did protest that just normal would be fine because I'm now worried that a book the size of a wallpaper catalogue is going to turn up and I'll need two hands to turn the pages. It's a very nice turn of phrase as our glen. On the subject of libraries, am I the only one who likes to check the date stamps at the front of a library book and build up a little narrative? Ah, the reliable, steady plodder with a couple of loans a year, but what was going on with that thriller that had an amazingly promiscuous loan period in 2019? I've even been known to take pity on books

that haven't been borrowed for a few years and give them a spin-out. They're invariably shite. That's really sweet. That makes me feel so sad. It's so lovely, Glenn. What a compassionate nature you have, Glenn. But what a lovely thing to do to imagine

all of the bits and pieces that went on in somebody's life when they raced through a book and then the next person took three months to get it back Yeah I sometimes You know when you see a mound of cuddly toys I sometimes feel really sorry for the ones that never get chosen In a shop Anyway

Fair enough So I'm with Clint there I always find it quite difficult to buy a book in a charity shop That has got a really personal inscription in it I feel like I'm taking somebody's That's heartbreaking Yeah taking somebody's possession and especially if it's in that really beautiful cursive font

that the older generation used to use because did you do tracing over Marion Richards font? I'm pretty sure it's Marion Richards. When you were learning to write, we traced over that cursive font in order to learn all of our letters. Which is why handwriting was incredibly similar. Then then you'd go through that lovely rebellious phase

of kind of choosing your own handwriting. Going for it. Yeah, nine. Gosh, that's really interesting. I don't remember, Tracy, I must have done it. Children still, teachers will know this, but children are still taught handwriting in that way, are they? I've got no idea. I mean, I know that people say that, you know, children barely write because they just do everything on laptops from the age of whatever. But, yeah, I suppose, and what was the name of the woman?

I think Marion Richards or Marion Richardson was the kind of template. Yes, right. But I do think the writing thing is daft, actually, Jane, because. the exams that are children all have to sit, they are handwritten exams in a digital age and so many teachers say that actually there's just a problem for the kids, especially in a three-hour paper, of not being able to write coherently for that length of time

because, you know, you just don't anymore. And it's a good point. I mean, I bet when you were setting your A-levels, you know, back in the last century... Well, it was the last century. It was, me too. When you put it like that, that's terrible, isn't it? But the writing on page 16 of your English A-level was probably incredibly different to the writing on pages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, isn't it?

I mean, it does slightly, you do wonder how they mark these essays and how they mark them now. Are you, I mean, there'll be people listening who are in vigiliate, not in vigilate, mark A-levels. What do you do if you just can't read the writing? Yeah, and I'd love to hear some thoughts about that. I think it's really interesting. It is interesting. Can I just say because Glenn's got a lovely anecdote, a Neville Shoot anecdote.

We're reading a town like Alice by Neville Shute in case you've dipped into this podcast and you don't realize the relevance of it. It's our podcast book club book. A Neville Shoot anecdote for you when filming on the beach in Melbourne in 1959, Ava Gardner, who was starring, supposedly quit that Melbourne was the perfect place to make a film about the end of the world. One for your Aussie listeners. Well, if you are close approximate to Melbourne, what was Ava saying there? I think Elbe's a rather gracious city. I always thought it was one of the calmer, I mean, I know nothing about it.

Oh my God, sorry, Valencia. I'm so, so sorry. I made it. Well, I didn't know either, but just correct it. No, I'll take that hit. For the record. Valencia's not in land. It's a city on the bay of Valencia.

Sorry. We did have several emails on your stuff. No, we did. So my ignorance was based and compounded by Escape to the Sun where the lovely gentleman was showing our couple of the day properties inland from Valencia. Yes. Not in inland, Valencia.

Could it be because they're cheaper in land? But it's still unforgivable. It's terrible. I'm really, really sorry. I don't think it's the only thing people will remember. call about you and your broadcasting career. So don't be hard on yourself. It's either that or Geoffrey Archer.

Take your pick or wear all mask. I wonder how he is. Oh, God. Actually, can we just, let's just say, it's been another horrible, ghastly, Epstein-file-related couple of days, hasn't it? And I just don't know where to start with it, really. I just wish it would all stop, frankly.

Well, if you and I wish it would all stop, then the victims and their families, you know, must really wish that it would all stop. And on our afternoon program today, we are going to do an interview with somebody from the Survivors Trust because it must be an incredibly difficult day for anybody who has experience of abuse. It's triggering as an overuse word. But imagine you're having to listen to all of this stuff about how badly affected some powerful men have been by what it turned out that powerful men were doing. And it's kind of like, now, come on. You know, this is,

this is only part of the story. And the reason why these powerful men don't seem to feel the need to apologize is because they don't seem to know why it's necessary for them to apologize if they were complicit in that type of behaviour, look the other way in that type of behaviour, or actually benefited from that type of behaviour. But you know what really saddens me? There's a very powerful piece in The Times Today by Polly Vernon

about the image of Andrew crouching over what does. It appears to be a very young woman. We don't know because her face is blanked out, so I don't know. But it doesn't look to me like a woman in her 30s. It looks like somebody who could be in her late teens. Anyway, it's a truly horrible image. And Polly Verne has written a powerful piece saying pretty much that and how distressing it is.

But some of the comments underneath, I would say the majority actually, and I haven't checked since this morning, were from people who say, oh, stop this. Leave him alone. He's suffered enough. There's nothing to see here. This is so tawdry.

But I see I wouldn't even give that. I just wouldn't even give them the air time. No, I mean, I wish I hadn't read the comments, but I am so alarmed when I see that that point of view is out there. But I think that you only challenge that point of view by hearing more stories from the victims. And it's just if you would do a survey. Some people are never going to believe them. No, but if you did a survey of just media coverage and airtime to do with Epstein,

I mean, I think it would be 100 to 1 the conversations about. the men involved and the voices of the women. And so it does get distorted. You know, we're just not hearing what it does to a life to have had that in it. And Trevor Phillips, to give him his due, he made a fantastic point and it was so nice to hear a man make it,

that for all of the women who we know were involved in Epstein, and we don't know very many of their names, why should we? You know, what a terrible, terrible thing to have happened in your life. He said that there will be hundreds of women, now in their 40s and 50, who are just trying to get on with their life,

who were those teenagers. And they might not have told anybody about it. They might not even have told their partners. And, you know, for them, these are absolutely hideous times. And that's not talked about enough, I know. So, you know, I had my little hissy fit this morning and then thought, how fantastic that we have a podcast and we have an afternoon show

with really good editors and producers who think the same way. Let's actually just change some of this distortion. I will just say, think the saga of how on earth did Mandelson get that job as UK ambassador to the States is over either. I think that I think there's going to be a lot. I just think heads might roll over this. Of course he should never have got that job. He had so much in his locker and they must have known about it. I mean he's been, Mandelson has been, should we say, notable in British politics for most of our working lives as journalists.

I just don't want to talk about him anymore, Jane. He's always been questionable. Anyway, let's talk much, and this is much more. It actually is connected to what Glym was saying. It's about our book. Oh, yes. It's from Jane in Chicago. A long-time listener, originally from Beautiful Derbyshire, now in snowy, frigid Chicago.

I have heard you mention your book. Did I say that out loud? And I decided, she's an innocent lady in Chicago, to request it from her local library. I mean, why not? Below is their response, which did come as a bit of a surprise. I thought you might get a smile from you.

she heard back thus. She heard back thus. Maybe I'm more suited to musical theatre than to broadcasting. The only holding of this title is in the Library of Congress. Their loan policy is that all loans are in library use only.

The book may not leave our main library. Do you agree with this restriction? Please advise how we should proceed with your request from the Interlibrary Loan Department. That's absolutely brilliant. You've got to go to the Library of Congress and sit there and read a book that's got chapters like,

what was some of your chapters called? There was one about the cathedrals in Liverpool. I wrote one about forgetting my password. It was all good stuff. There was a rude one about Christmas, which I think was called a Happy Bloody Christmas. The septicisation of domesticity. It's all in there.

Well, look, I mean, I don't know. I'm currently not visiting the United States. but should I ever return, I'm going to go straight to the Library of Congress. And demand to see a copy of your own work. I tell you what, we're doing some business for M&S with the disinfectant and Etty is one of several people who's written to say that they have bought the M&S disinfectant, which is green tea and bergamot. Can I just say, it did really make my haul tiles.

It really did lend a sophisticated note to what is sometimes an unsophisticated household. We've had some warnings about you shouldn't use it. Definitely don't use it neat if you've got pets. Don't drink at meat. We're having this conversation in the office. That actually pretty much anything that you put on your floor is not going to be great for your pets. Have you bleached your floors?

It's not great for your pets. No. I mean, somebody, my daughter told me, oh, you shouldn't buy daffodils, they're about upset Dora. But so much could potentially upset Dora. That is true. Just everything upsets Dora. So, you know, no.

I'm still buying daffodils. No. End of. Anyway, Eddie, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Etty describes herself as 69, so getting old, well past middle age. And also, we very much hope that your brother's funeral, which is on Friday the 13th of February, is a really decent event for you all.

He died on the 1st of January, says Etty, so we will have waited six weeks. Such a long time. It is. It appears to be pretty common to wait this long or longer, says Etty. And it does feel strange waiting for the funeral. It will be important for us all to get to the 13th. and celebrate him with his many friends who will be there with us.

And as he says, in this limbo period, I have been treating myself to things I wouldn't normally have, the odd chocolate bar or more hot chocolate drinks in cafes. And that's why she popped into Eminus to buy the pot of disinfectants. I love that. I think you're right to treat yourself. There's absolutely no harm done by occasionally having something you might regard as a trifle indulgent.

Just go for it. Yeah, totally. It's about helping yourself through that grim period. and yeah, like Fie, I wish you the very best for the funeral when it comes. And if I'm anything to go by, you will find it super, super helpful and cathartic and a great comfort. We have to end at some point, and I want to bring in Louisa, who says on the topic of teet holes, I'd ask you to spare a thought for those of us with a baby. Mine is currently three months old, who will not accept a bottle.

Yes, some of them, they can be a little reluctant. We don't have the luxury to poke additional holes in our nipples, although at three in the morning, sometimes such thoughts do seem appealing. Oh, Louisa, my youngest was born on the 5th of February. It's her birthday this week. And it was such a silly time to have a child because it was so cold breastfeeding through the February and early March, and indeed into April, to be honest.

I must be honest and say that I packed it in in May, Louisa. So the end might very well. No, it doesn't have to come around too soon. Look, I'm not here to be your breastfeeding advisor, but just pack yourself on the back. and acknowledge that this is tough and you're doing a good thing and those three in the morning moments that you never quite forget them

but they they pass into your they pass into some sort of memory don't they? Well they do I mean I always really loved the night feeds but it was the... Well yes what was it winter or summer? Winter so... I just found it so cold. My son was born in January but I really loved them but knew that I would pay for them the next day which slightly kind of dulls your ardour

for them after a while. But I was trying to think when I read that email of something helpful to say about trying to get a baby onto a bottle because it's a really difficult thing to do sometimes and I was very envious of mums who managed to give their babies a bottle at night

but still carry on with the breastfeeding during the day. I seem to recall I was a bit all or nothing. thing with both of mine too. So that is unhelpful to not be unhelpful, but I tell you what you can take from that. These things, they do pass into memory or not. They seem like your entire life at the time. Breastfeeding is a job.

It is a full-time job, and I wish it was recognised as such. But then you probably will get to the stage 20 years down the line where you can't quite remember all of these stages. So I don't know whether there's any comfort to be had. I tell you, it'll impact you, Louis. as well, because you will tell the child about this when they're older. And they just won't give a damn.

It's so frustrating. I continually tell my daughters about the endless, sleepless nights. Do you? See, I don't. Oh, I just want them to know, particularly on their birthdays, actually. There's something about their birthdays that triggers those memories of the early months. And I say to them, do you know what? I didn't get a wink of sleep until you're about four or five. Just be prepared.

Gosh, I don't say that. I don't say that at all. Well, I let it all out. They're not listening, but I feel better for it. I don't want them to make them feel bad about themselves. I always think stuff like that might. It's not their fault. I just want to plant the seed that, you know, your mother,

a little bit of a saint. I'll tell you what, this is me. This is me, really is your theme tune. This is me. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

If you'd like to hear us do this, live and we do do it live every day Monday to Thursday two till four on Times radio the jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case so you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times radio app off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler