Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Rendered speechless by Cockfosters (with Miriam Margolyes)

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

It's Raymondo's birthday! He won't be listening, but we wish him a good one anyway... Jane and Fi discuss getting the duvet back out, Vantablack in Dalston, dogs on upholstery, nipple cream, offending the cosplay community, and there's a Bob Dylan mix-up. Plus, national treasure Miriam Margolyes discusses her new book, ‘Miriam's Full English’. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, hello everybody. Welcome to Midweek. It's a Wednesday. It's incredibly misty in London. And we were all saying, isn't that lovely? It's just really nice. Eve's delighted to be back under a duvet. You had a long, sweaty summer under a sheet.

I've knew it's terrible. Well, you're absolutely right, Eve. It's the weight of something, isn't it, on top of you, that's important. Nobody's don't start... No, don't start to make a drink or anything. I didn't. I was actually going to try and move the conversation on to weighted blankets. Okay, feel free.

What do you have a view? I've always been slightly intrigued by a weighted blanket. A weighted blanket helped one of my kids who had getting to sleep problems hugely. Right, okay. It was a proper, proper problem solved by the weighted blanket. And is it particularly hot or is it simply weighting? And what makes it weighty? Strange.

It felt to me, like sleeping under chain mail and obviously in my previous career what's coming at GLR? No as a fully paid up soldier in a 16th century

battalion in France I thought you'd stop talking about that yeah it felt like armour it was straight loads and loads well the one that we bought with loads and loads of tiny little metal balls inside

a blanket type thing So it was really heavy, really, really heavy. And it worked a treat, Jane. Oh, that's really interesting. Well, I'm fascinated to hear that. Other stories welcome. And do you recycle them or what happens after use? Well, we've still got the weighted blanket.

And nobody uses it anymore. But no, I don't feel that I'll be able to get it to the Oxfam shot. Everything's a struggle. You solve one problem. You create another. I'm trying to do massive, massive. massive clear route at the moment ahead of, you know, house move and whatever. We've heard a lot about that.

I know. So I'm trying to do three bagloads of stuff every weekend. What are you including knick-knacks, clothes? Absolutely everything. I'm doing it one cupboard at a time and it just gets woofed. So there are so many, I think Oxfam might ban me. I think when they put up that sign saying, no donations today, it's me. You're going to have to just spread your face.

Davis. Why don't you drive over West and I'll see if I can help you out? Yes, could you? Well, I'll think about it, definitely. That would be great. I think they do try to park company with regular returners at some charity shops. I have been very careful though about what I'm putting in for the Oxfam shop because I do really feel for people who are having to sort through, you know, bags of smelly clothes and all that kind of stuff. But it's quite, it's a very liberating thing actually and obviously did you do this? because you did a massive sort-out when your girls... You've got a skip, didn't you?

I've had three skips. And now I need three more. Oh, my God. Honestly, unbelievable. Because I did attempt to clear out their childhood junk when they left for uni. But now they both come back from university, one still living at home.

And I've now got two separate lots of uni stuff in the house. And I do now know why my own mother absolutely hit the roof. probably 30 years after I left home and got rid of my fantastic collection of smash hits but I can see why she did it she probably took one look at this teetering pile of old magazines and thought

why have I been left with this I get it so I'm feeling the same way about things like well we've got electric blankets kettles those you know with the multi-plug adapter things that people take off to you God I could do with some of those

oh well that's no problem we could do a swap shop Well, why don't we do a swap shop? I can't bring some in. I tell you what does make it quite sad. Both my children are much bigger than me. So they have passed through the time at which they could use my clothes. In fact, they would have had to, I think in my daughter's case,

she would have been able to wear my shoes. And so I've got all of these shoes, which there's no point saving them, you know, in case future generations might want them or whatever. Well, do you know what? That's a really interesting point. raised there because we were having a conversation earlier about the biotapestry and how it has been preserved.

And when you were talking about it and I was thinking, I wonder how did they, how were they able to look after it? Why didn't any of my silly old relatives hang on some artefacts that I could now flog and make a fortune? Or hand to George Osborne at the British Museum? Or hand to

George Osborne, yes, all of that. Why do ordinary people, my family is very ordinary, why do we just chuck everything out? should you be doing what you're doing or should you bear in mind your great great-grandchildren and keep hold of a few things? Well I think you should

keep hold of a few things but I no longer want to keep hold of a lot of things and my mum's a great keeper of things and I know that there will be an inevitable downsizing she still lives independently and she's doing remarkably well that sounds patronising

it's not meant to be at all she lives on established she doesn't listen. Her own. She doesn't know. But, you know, she's neither in sheltered housing, nor as your dad is in a care home. So she's still got a house that is full of stuff. Yeah. And she has been very, very careful about keeping a lot of things for us as, you know,

my sister and I have left home and she moved down from Scotland and all the rest of it. So I feel that this kind of wave of stuff is coming towards me. And I think actually that's why I've become a little bit careful about just ditching my own. Because I think there's a lot coming. Not all of it I will want, but I will have to keep it because my mum has kept it. So there's a slight kind of legacy to it where I would feel guilty if she had hung onto it through three generations. And, you know, I was essentially, you know, the nefarious peregrine who sells off the family estate. The nefarious peregrine.

That's you. By the way, when I say things, I just mean some bits of crockery. No grape. There's the yacht. There's tapestry coming my way. There's all sorts of here. There really isn't. But it's funny, isn't it?

I think in every family there are keepers and chuker-outuras. I should have mentioned actually already. My dad, it's his birthday today. He isn't. Oh, happy birthday, Raymondo. He doesn't listen either, but he's 93 today. That's amazing, time. I have spoken to him, and he's still very much with us,

and shares his birthday with Sir Kier Starma. Wow. Wow, what a double act. Yeah. Anyway, yes. So all the. best to him and to anybody else celebrating today. It's a strange time of year to have a birthday. So it's that turn of the season, everybody getting back into their old routine, you'd have

been the, would you have been the youngest in your class or possibly the oldest in your school class? What would you have been if you'd be the oldest, wouldn't you? I don't know. I don't know. Let us know if you are a Virgo. Yeah. Because you would have. been, let's say he was five years old, rising fives. Do you remember rising fives? I'm not to imagine my dad as a rising five. I suppose at one point you will have been. You would have become a rising five way before somebody who was born in July. So you'd be the oldest in your year, wouldn't you? I mean, he was born in 33. I mean, yeah, so he, yes, he was six at the start of the Second World War. I mean, it is, it is incredible. It's a very, very long

life he's lived. It's a very, very long life. I think it's a very long life. I think it's a shame that he doesn't listen to this because he gets a decent name check. I think it would make him laugh. I doubt it. Come on, Ray, get on board. Get on board. Nope. Can't see it happening. The biotapestry,

can you explain to us why they decided to preserve it? And how? How did they think, okay, this is actually worth hanging on to in thousands, not thousands of years, hundreds of years time, the English will probably want it back. We must look after it.

So you think that you might give it a swerve or you're curious enough to go and see it? I'm not very. I'm sorry, I've not. I've seen images. It doesn't look that great. You've seen it. I've seen it. And in situ in France. Well, I mean, it was meant to be the highlight of a trip to Normandy. And actually, I did ask the kids about it the other day. And they tried to be very polite. But they say that actually the thing that they remembered the most was the amazing portions of chips that we had in local restaurants in Normandy, where they really can do a freak. Oh, they know a chip.

They do know a freak. And we remembered the beach. They remembered the beach. I mean, we did go to some of the war cemeteries there. And they do remember that. The tapestry, no, they don't remember that at all. And I'm not surprised. I mean, I'm not trying to be, you know, kind of faux,

unintellectual or whatever. I don't think ignorance is bliss at all. But it didn't engage me. The sense of how important it was, that it had survived definitely impressed me. But I didn't, I mean, there's a pre-apic guy there, isn't there, that everyone, you could see this little group of kids sniggering around that. It didn't leave its massive, massive mark on me.

So to speak. Yes. In the way that I think Anish Kapoor has left Mark on you. Well, yes. It is weird because I thought at the time I'm still wittering on about having seen Anish Kapoor experience. She's been to a gallery, everybody. She's been to a gallery.

She's got the brownie badge. Art done. Art done for the month. The year? Who knows? Quite possibly. Sally says, Vanta black.

This is the colour that only Anish Kapoor is allowed to use. I find that extraordinary. It's not so much a colour as a nanotech coating. Vanta stands for vertically aligned nanotube arrays. Which absorbs 99.9% of visible light. amazed to hear that the patent holder, Surrey Nanosystems, did indeed grant Anish Kapoor exclusive rights to use Vantam Black in his art. I find this very interesting. You're not the only one selling. I find it extremely interesting. Nanosystems, Surrey Nanosystems. Well, they've done well for themselves.

It must be tiny. Yeah, but having a patent patent on that is quite something. Yeah. I mean presumably it's used in all kinds of different situations to absorb light and all of that. But just one person can use it for art. For art, yeah. It gives him a real advantage, doesn't it? Yeah. We've seen Vantablack. I'm just trying to think where, because we were intrigued by whether or, you know, by how dark it would be by comparison to normal black.

Can you, I'd like to hear you in conversation with a local decorator, which you are. the good gentleman, I'm sensing it could be a man, if you please could have your sitting room walls in Vantablack. Would that be possible? Do you know what, somewhere in Dahlston, there is a house that has Vantar Black as their face colour? I bet there is. Right, on the subject of Strepsils, this one comes in from Susan,

who was a sans sister in the 1990s. Now, what does that mean? She was the matron in the sand in a school. So, gosh, but you must have had some quiet days. Oh, I don't know, I don't think so. No, I think the sound is busy in any school, isn't it? Well, not every single, not, no. I mean, you get a few coughs and colds in mid-November onwards, I would have thought.

But you've got to do the knit check. I mean, that takes forever. I suppose you might get period pains. Yeah. What else? Nasty nor. I think there's always somebody in the sound. Right.

Yeah. Well, Susan can tell us, because actually I'd like to her a little bit more. Dear Fee, Jane and Eve, I always wondered why I got through so many strepsels. I worked as a ancestor in the 1990s. I loved escaping from the NHS. I lived in a grace and favour flat,

paid for, no utilities, and was paid for all the school holidays. It's not a bad gig. Tell me, are there any vacancies going on. But Susan, do fill us in on what happens in the sanatorium and whether or not, as my colleague here is suggesting, there are some very flat days.

What are you doing in the very flat days? What did you get up to when there were no customers queuing up for your... There's always somebody who's sprained an ankle or, you know... Or just doesn't want to be there. It's got a bunsen burn a burn or something like that. Yes, or... Yeah, right. Kids who are just having a bit of a struggle day.

In fact, there's another fantastic one about sick notes. Oh, go and find that because I'll just briefly revisit my lifelong interest in art. and join Luke, who says I was a gallery assistant myself at Somerset House over one summer when I was at uni about nine years ago. It was part-time, so I never had such an exhausting stint as your correspondent who worked at the Horneman Museum. I think you'd be into the Horneman Museum, hadn't you? That's Eve, I'm gesturing to. She's not speaking today for reasons.

Are they private? What? Yes. Although we also weren't allowed to sit down. Do you know, I'm surprised that you're not giggling at the Hornimum. museum. No. As a woman

who giggled at Cockfosters. No, no. I didn't giggle at Cockfosters. You said that whenever you saw

a bus coming to the children. No. It was the Piccadilly line station. Yes. The Hammersmith Piccadilly line.

We'd get on there when the children were young and if the destination was Cockfosters, neither of them could speak. And I used to think

grow up. I mean, they were nine and six at the time or something. Okay, I'd take it back. Did they like to visit the Horny Man Museum? There's a road in Great Malvern,

horny old road. Oh yes. And it goes, it's a rather beautiful road, actually. I've always thought, it's nice to live on there, but I think would it? I don't know. It kind of wends its way up the Malvern Hills.

I think I'm right. It's in Great Morven, yeah. Very nice town. Let's go back to Luke. I was studying music. at the time and would spend the long hours at Somerset House, one of two ways, playing memory games like, can I list off all the American states? Gosh, I'm not sure I could actually. Or all the capital cities in Europe. I don't think I could do that either. Or else I would run ideas for my songwriting

over and over again in my head for hours. If the gallery was really quiet, no one was looking, I would sometimes hum the ideas into my voice notes app. Sometimes I would come out of the shift with a nearly fully formed song idea. I've got fond memories of that summer now, although I'm not sure at the time it felt anything other than grueling. But overall, spending long hours with nothing but artworks and displays and the people curious to see them was a privilege. Luke, I think that's a very good approach to life.

I hope you have lots of success in your career, whatever that might be, and hopefully you're still writing songs, because you're a glass half-full gentleman from the same of things. I think those jobs are so much more stressful than you'd imagine them to be because although you might think you're kind of not doing anything, in fact, what you are doing is waiting for a moment when you might have to really be doing something.

So for security guards, I always think, God, you know, there could be 60 seconds in your day where something really extraordinary happens and you've got to be across it and you're the one who's expected to deal with it. but actually you're spending the rest of your eight-hour, nine-hour shift in a slightly kind of zombified state. You know, nobody's really talking to you or engaging with you properly, but you've got to be ready, haven't you? That must be incredibly stressful.

You know, sometimes the last thing at night in London, you might go past an office building, and it will really be late, and you'll see somebody who's in there. Yeah, sitting there all night. On their own. I don't know how they get through. I mean, I'd love to hear from people who've done. those shifts overnight in a

that could be quite a significant office building or indeed something that doesn't look anything significant but is actually quite significant. I always hope that they have got a kind of side hustle going on where they can be busy doing something that's of interest to them whilst also supposedly

guarding the space and I only say supposedly because actually if someone's got really bad intent one poor guy and quite often is a guy is not going to be able to withstand that onslaught It's a cheerful thought. Isn't it?

Yeah. Well, look, should we rejoin Sophie? Yes. He's got some thoughts as well. Sophie was at St. Swithens a little bit off to me. I hope you've done all right in life, Sophie. And can confirm that the process of taking sick notes up to the headmistress at the end of prayers slash assembly on the first day back was still in full force. I think this is quite a quite a quink, a kink you had going on at this establishment.

It's a bit odd, isn't it? Well, I think it is odd, yeah. Just hadn't thought about it. for 40 years until yesterday. My favourite memory of this was one time when I confidently handed over a note from my mother, not entirely understanding what it meant. My mother had written tiredness and general malaise,

which was met with a slightly surprised look by the head. I think the modern day equivalent would be CBA, which is can't be asked. Got to admire my mother's honesty, I suppose. I often want to email in, this is about the podcast and don't get round to it a few weeks ago. I wanted to tell you about a time when I was on a train,

and there was a young couple who had their dog on the day, the table. I know. When I challenged them, they were very aggressive to me, and I have to say, I didn't feel I had the support of my fellow passengers. I was honestly quite baffled. Is it just me? Well, no, Sophie, I'd be with you.

A dog on the tables is wrong. A dog even on the seat is wrong. If you're going to take your dog on the train. No, I don't think dogs should be on seats. No, I don't think dogs should be on seats at all. No, why should they get a seat? God almighty. Not if they're old ladies like myself standing.

but if it's an empty train No, they shouldn't be on the upholstery They've been all over the place Got things on their bottoms Oh yes, you're quite right Isn't somebody going on Mastermind Discussing TFL upholstery? Yes

I think that's... I tell you what, Mastermind is really up to its Insta game Hasn't it? Because I keep getting told what people are doing for their special subjects. Oh, is that where it's all coming from, I don't know? Well, I think so because the other day I was fed and I'm only recently back on the Insta

I was fed, quite... a lot about somebody was doing Harry Stiles as their specialist topic and I think just you know got 475 questions right in the time and then yep TFL upholstery you're going to do you can't go on celebrity mastermind anymore haven't they been that or is a celebrity university challenge well one of them has been axed but weren't you have you been on both no no no no I've been on celebrity university challenge yes that's right with the fantastic question about the back catalogue of Bob Dylan that we attributed to Leona Lewis. And even Jeremy Paxman couldn't believe it.

Actually, I'm quite proud of you because I've been a long, a long term Dylan refuse Nick. So I should think it's hilarious. I thought it might be Leona Lewis. Who else was in your team? I don't know. I don't know. Well, to be fair, that is pretty, yeah, that rings true.

Have you ever seen celebrities? University Challenge. No, there was a fantastic playwright. Oh yes. It was a scriptwriter of a Bond movie, a very well-known botanist and...

Stop, just leaving it. I regret bringing that up. I'm glad you did. Well, no, because I was just going to say if you were on Celebrity Mastermind, you were going to do Liverpool Football Club. Yes, well, and then I must admit I pulled out, what happened

there? Did it... I think it was some commitment in the end I couldn't make. But I don't know why I picked that as a topic because I could easily have got that hopelessly wrong and looked and sounded a complete craft. Well, by coincidence, a very lovely producer on our show has been one of the question compilers

for celebrity mastermind, Ben. How do you know that? Because I engage people in conversation shows. I don't just wait for them to serve me with research notes. We do chattererama. No, and he said it was really good fun, because I think if you've got that kind of intellectual brain, and clearly he has,

then losing yourself in a topic and trying to pick out, you know, little tricky bits that people might or might not get. Must be fantastic. So, I mean, quizzes these days, I mean, people just, don't they just look online, or is that? Yeah, I think they do. But the proper television ones,

they've got genuine question setters. Yes. I'm quite reassured by that. Yep, I believe so. Right. And in fact, I think Amal Rajan was asked to exactly that. He said in his conversation with George Osborne, because he appeared on George Osborne's podcast,

that the questions on university challenge are the stars. Right. And that they weren't generated by AI. What a modest man he is. They were written by real people. I was all very, very choked up at nine o'clock this morning. I wasn't actually, I was in the Lydder. Yes, you weren't even listening.

You were relying on your late life love interest to tell you what went on and also partially me and I just shouted, Alex her off! Well, I think both you and I are entitled to have an opinion about this just because we weren't really allowed to say goodbye at the BBC. Don't stop me off on that thing.

We were walked out of the building with our landyards cancelled. I've got loads of stuff in a locker there. Actually, that'll be the biotapestry, won't it, of future generations? Well, depending on what? what you've stored in there. I dread to think.

Right. In my dream last night, says Anne, who is in Sydney? In my dream last night, I never usually remember anything. I saw on the podcast app the headline for the next episode, and it was, Fee resigned. Anne, what a shock that must have been.

I've got some important news at which I'm going to take 13 minutes today. No, I'm not going anywhere. In fact, I think Jane and I are about to commit ourselves to staying here a bit longer, aren't we? Yes, and after which we will be committed, and so will most of our audience. Oh, dear. No, we're, I think it's okay to say. We're going to be here for another couple of years. We're very excited about that. We are, we are. So keep the emails coming because we're not going anywhere, and we need you. Jane and Fee at times.combe, who's our guest today? Our guest is Miriam Margulies. Now, you have done a turn with Miriam this time around, so I'm afraid.

It's always like there's a rotor. There is a rota. Well, we both have to go into a period of rest afterwards. She is always such good value. But I don't really know what you've talked about in this. Well, do you know what? I think... You just made me think about it because you were talking about what you gleaned from our colleague, Ben, about setting questions. She has a number of settings, doesn't she? And she... But last week, she was on really good form. But she was reflective. She was a bit more serious than she can be. But you know what? I... hugely admire about her, is that she is, by her admission, she's very curious. I mean, some would say nosy, but she properly engaged with every single person who came into her orbit when she was with us, which was about an hour and a half the other day. And she asks people about themselves, and it could be that the lady doing the makeup or one of our colleagues was filming the, the interview, whatever. She just, she bothers, she bothers with people. And the reason that she is much liked is because of that I think actually.

And I think she's a very rare combination where she has the ability to do that but she is also an absolute force when she is on send mode so she can do both receive and send. And very few people can do both really well. Most have just one setting. But do you know what as well?

I think with Miriam I think she has a very, very clever, acerbic mind, but also a very kind heart. I do think she has been, and I know that she's been immensely kind, you know, in her personal life to an awful lot of people. And, you know, not to make it all about me, but here we go. You've done a couple of interviews with her, because she does all these stage shows as well. She sent me an email after I'd done one of the stage shows with her, which I've kept to this day. It was so kind. and it was very thoughtful and it was very complimentary.

And she didn't need to do that. I just nobody by comparison to her. No, come on. No, I don't. And I just thought, how amazing. She had taken the time to find my email by asking the people who'd done the stage show and all that kind of stuff.

And I just thought, I've never received a personal thank you from somebody of that stature. Well, that says a lot about her. But also, let's just hear it for the thank you letter. Yes. Because to my shame, a lot. I don't send enough. I have been known to send them, but I should send it every single time I'd go anywhere or do something. A lot of people do. I do think it's a lovely thing to do. And that reminds me. I've been reminded of a lot of things from this conversation.

Sue, Sue, thank you so much for the beautiful card you sent to Hannah. It came today and it's, I mean, every word you wrote was absolutely spot on and Hannah's delighted. So thank you. And I was saying to Hannah, how lovely, that somebody not only had the thought, because we all have thoughts about doing nice things like sending. in cards to people, and we just don't do it, but Sue did. Yeah, and it takes quite a lot these days to go and get the stamp and save up for the stamps. Young Eve was asking where does one buy stamps. Really? Well, I know that you get them from the post office, but I do try to avoid the post office if I can. So I'll just ask them there else.

Jane, where do you get your stamps? Look, I happen to tell you, I bitterly regret it, that I got some stamps with an Akado delivery the other day. I wish I hadn't mentioned that now. They put it up right at the end, don't they? They flash at you. Do you want some stamps as a little flash of leg? It's stamps.

But if you can get them at quite a lot of corner shops, we'll stock them. So my local cost increases, as we call it, so it's a little price. They sell books of stamps. Do you know what? There used to be very handy stamp machines, didn't there, where you could just go and get one stamp. And I rue their passing. I don't think I've ever used a stamp machine. So there used to be one in kind of foyer areas of post offices.

So when the post office was closed, you could just go in and you could just get one stamp. Yeah, it was very, very handy. A little bit like a condom machine, but don't get the two muddled up. Luke comes in with Dear Jane and Fee late to the party, but catching up on the podcast and when hearing you talk about names for children's toys, I was reminded of a loyal cuddly toy I had as a young boy. Living in a cold attack as a child, I'd throw all of my cuddly toys out of my bedroom window onto the street below and arrange them into a congregation with an aisle down the middle.

After meticulously placing the parishioners, I would don my mother's wedding dress parade down the aisle and get married to a big blue, cuddly toy dog, I'd wanted a fairground hook a duck. With the minister being a toy vacuum cleaner, the one with all of the colourful balls that would spin around when in use. For reference, I've enclosed a photo

of another favourite dress of mine, and sadly not the wedding dress in question. You look absolutely lovely, Luke. Despite the flare and pomp of my very own public marriage ceremony, the grooming question was rather unimaginatively named Big Blue Dog and the minister, Mr Hoover. It may not come as a surprise to you or your listeners that, yes, I am gay, and yes, my family did know before I did. Loving the podcast is always adding myself to the list of morning listeners. Welcome to the morning

register, Luke, as I travelled to my early morning nursing shifts for a laugh and some gusto. This was such a joyful email to receive. It really was. You do. You look terrific in the dress. You've got a boater on as well, and I bet that that was a joyful, joyful ceremony every time, every time it happened. Dressing up, it's a shame with that sort of pass. It's a bit like skipping and holding hands with your mum and dad. There comes a time where you don't really put on clothes and pretend to get married. Darling, you are now offending an enormous cosplay community. Oh yes, of course.

There's all that going on. I think it goes on well into action. adult life for many, many people. Okay. Yes, all right. And if you could choose an area of cosplay, what would you choose? Would you be a wench? Yes, I think I probably would be, I think I would get, I'd do a bit of steampunk, tight bodice.

Yes, that's me, very much so. Have I made it clear? Yes, very clear. What would you dress up as? I think I probably would try for a superhero. I think tights and a cape. I'm going to move on to Judith, who's very behind. I mean, you really are, come, and Judith.

Do better now. Put your foot on the pedal a little bit as we head towards Christmas. I've just listened to the interview with Groove Armada. I mean... You miss Groove Armada? No, I didn't. Were you here? Yes. Sorry, I just imagine you've been away a lot.

I mentioned recently that I was off to volunteer at Sydney Thoke Festival. How lovely. Whilst folk music may be traditionally thought of as a couple of old blokes with beards and violins, the realities are a lot more lively. Can you imagine? I can. Yeah. And often quite loud.

Sorry. And often quite loud. One of the venues at Sidmouth is known for being particularly loud and features the rockier bands. For an example, search Talisk on YouTube. I don't know them. And it was at a Talis gig where another volunteer and I were taken aback by the number of very young children in the tent with no hearing defenders on. There were even a couple of prams. suggesting that very young infants were there.

The hearing problem won't go away any time soon. Earlier in the week, we also had Linda's farm playing and all their sound crew have gone deaf over the years, so have to be reminded to turn everything down. I've just been invited for a free hearing test, so I'm seriously considering taking up the offer. You should. Much love from Judith. Yes, you should, Judith.

Yeah. There's some pretty firm evidence, isn't there, that if you catch hearing loss early on, you save yourself an awful lot of other possibilities because I think that there are links between hearing loss and elements of dementia. I think it's just socialising so much harder if you just... And I do find myself in it,

I know we've talked about it, but just if you're in a low-ceilinged environment, it's hopeless. I honestly haven't got a clue what anyone's saying. You have to resort to that multi-purpose facial expression. It's very difficult, isn't it? Trust will do the business. Yeah, perhaps it is. Yeah, I've found myself agreeing with people. I mean, I dread to think what I've agreed with at any kind of...

A contracts party. Yeah, over the last five years. I mean, it just haven't helped me. The final one from me, because I know that now we've teased the audience with Miriam. They will probably want to just hear from Miriam. But this is such a fantastic email. It goes back to a conversation that we started a couple of weeks ago about hair loss. This comes in from Julie, who says,

I've had alopecia since I was 14. I'm now 42. I lost most of my hair within a couple of weeks. I was really lucky that my parents and friends were incredibly supportive and that my parents were willing to forego things so that I could have nice wigs. The NHS ones at the time were awful. At that time, social media didn't exist and we had very little information on the condition or any way of finding others with it. I got on with it, but I won't pretend it was easy to be a teenager with patchy hair. loss. And Julie goes on to say, when I was in my late 20s, I discovered Alopecia UK, a charity set up to support those with all types of alopecia. I met loads of people with a condition and the charity now has a huge Facebook group. I ended up setting up a local support group went on their annual Alton Towers trip and to the annual big weekend. And everybody I met had a completely different experience of Alopecia, the type, the time it started, how they felt about it, whether they wanted to try treatment or not and whether they told people in their life they had it or didn't. There is no one solution fits all.

I also work with changing faces for a while. They're a fantastic charity, are they who campaign around all types of visible difference. And I'm sorry to sub your email down, Julie. I'm only doing that for the purposes of time. But I do want to mention this bit that you tell us at the end. I don't wear hair when it's hot. It's a wig when it's in the box, but it's hair once it's mine. Or for yoga or swimming.

but I do have a wide range of wigs, all lengths, colors and styles. I actually miss my eyelashes more than my hair. They're very practical for keeping dirt out. And my eyebrows, I look a little bit featureless without. I have had microblading done at times, but it's very expensive, and the popular eyelash extensions aren't an option because you have to have some eyelashes for them to stick to. Finally, I'm sure you will appreciate me disclosing that, yes, I am patchy all over,

and I really object to having to pay full price for a bikini wax when I only need half a job doing. Now, Julie, I really love that detail and we are grateful to you for revealing that. I don't know whether you would agree with this and just get back in touch if you don't. But sometimes I think our curiosity is slightly pushed back, isn't it? When we want to ask questions about things like alopecia,

but we're so fearful that it would be insulting to do so. But does it actually help if we do ask all of those questions? So it just becomes less of a you're over there, I'm over here. I hope that, you know, you telling us that means that absolutely it's really fine to just let your curiosity run a little bit rampant and say those things out loud. We had loads of emails about hair loss and everybody's saying the same thing. you know it's it's just such a common experience is way more common than we would think in women

because women have had to go to such extreme lengths to cover it up because the reaction I mean it's just different Jane a boarding man is different to a balding woman that's just a fact and I think that's a really interesting email and I'd look for honestly we do welcome more thoughts on this and whether or not the rest of us are okay to ask what might be interpreted as daft or insensitive questions. Anyway, you can let us know.

I just need to say, we talked about nipple cream yesterday, and Anonymous has emailed to say, greetings from the middle of the night, newborn trenches. You often keep me company, and it feels like a warm hug through my speaker, particularly over the last couple of weeks, as I attempt to nurse my newborn. Unfortunately, my baby had a tongue tie, although it has now been treated in the few days before it was treated,

the baby piranha managed to inflict toe curling and a toe curling amount of damage to my nipples which still requires me to bite on a muslin to be able to push through the pain and carry on breastfeeding oh right we hear you nipple cream is one of the only bits of kit in the book to try and aid the agony and help heal while navigating a baby adamant

on cluster fuck feeding please don't say it's not needed right it was I'm sure it's me that said that so I absolutely apologise no I don't think it was actually no I think it was actually No, I think it was me. You said, don't kind of... Let's both apologise. No, but it's a really good point to make.

I think what I was trying to say was you may actually have something in your bathroom cabinet already. That would do the job. That is exactly the same ingredient as what's in nipple cream. But some companies are definitely trying to make you pay extra because they call it a very specific thing. So a lot of nipple... And I looked it up this morning because I felt really bad about that. a lot of nipple creams are just vaseline-based or they're lanyline-based or their sheer butter-based

and actually one of the recommendations was you can do just as well by using coconut oil and I did use coconut oil for one of my babies I didn't end up in such a serious condition as you but I had really really painful feeding sessions and apart from anything else babies love it I mean you know they really really if you're really if you're you've got a baby who's slightly struggling to latch on, I would imagine that a little bit of the, you know, the breezy taste of coconut can only be an added incentive. So, you know, just look in your bathroom cabinet first.

Don't get taken for a ride by people. Well, that's the danger now, because we know there's so much of this alleged wellness stuff being hurled at us, and it's not cheap any of it. And I think probably, oh, yeah, he's right there, they'll just add a charge a premium for something that you've already got, or a version of it you've already got. She does say, identifying and getting help for tongue-tie is a bug bear of mine,

but perhaps I'll save that rant for another day or more likely another long, lonely night when I can string a few more well-reasoned sentences together. In the meantime, thank you for sitting with me. And thoughts and solidarity to all the others who are listening in the middle of the night. Anonymous, that's a very sweet and very thoughtful and heartfelt email for all, for a multitude of reasons. And I know this period of your life is really tough. It's not helpful to say it will get easier except

know that it will. Well it just won't be forever. No. It'll stay being hard for when it's hard but it won't be forever. And you're doing such a wonderful job. You're doing such a wonderful job. So I hope you've got some people who are telling you that. Jane and I are telling you that now too. And we're worth a lot more than most ordinary people. A great deal more. Because, I'm just trying to think of a reason.

No, I can't. I can't think of a reason. Let's get to Miriam Margulies, who's written a new book. Now her others have all been bestsellers. No pressure, Miriam. Her autobiography, This Much Is True, was in the top 10 bestseller charts for a year. And full English, which is out tomorrow, is about identity and belonging. Miriam, you'll not be surprised to hear, has some thoughts about the way this country is going.

This book does have its funny moments, but Miriam is in a quite reflective mood. I wanted it to be different a bit. Yeah. In what way different? A bit more serious, because I know my reputation. It couldn't be lower. Not with me. Well, that's kind of you, Jane.

But I wanted it to show me in the round not just being silly and a bit rowly, but thinking, a thinking roly-poly, if you like. Okay, well, I think we do find Miriam in a more thoughtful mode. I think you're absolutely right. And I think it's fair to say you probably don't envy the young, do you? Oh, you're wrong there. Oh, I might. Well, it's not for the first one.

No, I do envy the young. I don't, I'm not happy about nearly being over. I want to go on. but I don't want to go on being crippled, which is what I am, and fact. I think if I do it again, if we're given a chance, which we're not, because I don't believe in all that crap,

but if I were able to, I would be better and I would be thinner and I would be taller. I just make sure I was taller. Okay, I mean, I'm quite short myself, and what is the height you'd have gone for? I would have liked to have been 5'4. Yes. Because it's a distant dream for me too.

Yeah, it's not impossible. I could have been 5'4s. Something could have been done. Yeah. But I am actually 4 foot 11. Okay. I may even only be 4 foot 10 to tell you the truth. And it's hardly worth coming, is it?

I don't know. I'm glad you've come today. And I am too. When I said, you didn't envy the young. It was because in the book, you say, your heart, and I've written this down, is heavy with foreboding. Now, why? Why is that? That's about politics. And I think that we've fallen into a bad era of politicians. I don't think they're good enough. They were better when we were younger, certainly when I was younger. I can't believe I'm 85. I didn't think I'd live that

long, but I have, and I remember a better time, a more optimistic time. I think, for example, the fact that people at university have a debt when they leave it. I can't believe that. It wasn't like that when I went to university, and it's wrong. It's not fair that young people should have a debt. No, and it's not just that, is it? It's the fact that it's so tough at the moment for graduates to get a job at all? At all, yes. We knew when we left university, I knew I was going to get a job. I didn't know what it would be, but I knew I would get a job eventually. It never occurred to me that I would spend years out of work. And I feel sorry for the young in that regard, because the old have failed them. You do think that, well, I think this is right,

Andy Burnham, our current Prime Minister, as we speak, is an improvement on Keir Starmer? Yes, I do, because I think that he's easier to understand, easier to get to know, easier to believe. Kier Starmer, who I think was a decent chap, I never met him, I don't know him, so it's hard to say. But he seemed to make the wrong decisions. He seemed out of touch and not sure that he wanted to be in touch. Well, you actually just say he was really boring. I did say that. And he was.

And he was. Yeah. And that's awful. I mean, saying that about a person, it's different if you say it on the radio somehow. I think it's all right to say it in a book. But I feel a bit, because I wouldn't say it to his face. No. I wouldn't say you're boring.

I might think it. And he could say, well, you're fat and rude. And both of those are. true. Well, where would you be if you hadn't been a bit rude over the years? But I want to be serious about what you say in this book because this is not just a funny book. I think it's important that we acknowledge that. And you are interesting on the subject of national identity. And I want to know how you see yourself because what I didn't know about you is I knew your dad was a Scot. I didn't know that your mum was actually a Scousa, although I know she left Liverpool

quite young. And you yourself, we know you're Jewish, but you are also, are you English? Are you British? How do you think of yourself? Well, what do you think I am? I mean, that's the thing. How do I interpret the fact that you don't know what I am? Well, I would say, no, I would say you were English.

I am. I'm English. I was born in Oxford. Yeah, which is why. It doesn't get any more English. Exactly. That's why I sound posh. And I do sound posh.

And I quite like my vowels. I think my vowels are worth listening to. And I think they're better than Starmer's vowels, for instance. But I think you've made more money from your vowels than he has from his, I think. Yes, I've made more money speaking. And he's made more money talking. I think that's probably debatable, Miriam. Do you?

Yes, I do. But anyway. Well, he's a lawyer. Yes, no, he was a lawyer. He was a lawyer. Actually, one of the things I really admire about you, there are many, is that you're very upfront about money and earning money and how important it is to earn money.

I love it. I love money. I hope I can go on earning for a long time. But I'm honest. I pay my taxes. I don't cheat people. I'm not interested in tearing down old buildings in order to build horrible new ones.

People have got to live somewhere, that I know. but we should have nice things to look at. Everywhere is visual vandalism, especially around here. I mean, some of these offices, yes, it's ghastly. Can we go back to national identity? Because this is a time where the flag, the flag of St George, for example,

we see quite a lot of it. We didn't used to, but it's popping up quite a lot. And sometimes I think in situations that you probably wouldn't approve of, what would you say about that? I think it's been taken over by the by the fascists. You know, I think that the man I call the odious niggle.

We don't need to mention his name, but most people will know who you'll know who I mean. Some people obviously need to put their faith in him. They have been so let down by the other politicians. You yourself acknowledge that they haven't all been brilliant lately. So is it any surprise that some people feel the need to turn to parties like reform? I think it's surprising when you get to know the background of the man and analyze him a bit more carefully than perhaps most people do. I just like people who tell the truth.

For me, the truth is a necessity. I won't bargain with the truth. And it's not really even my truth. Facts are facts. I go by those. and he's not somebody that I can put my trust in. And I think that he pretends to be something he's not. But do you acknowledge that he is a good communicator?

Oh, absolutely. But a communicator has got to be telling the truth. A good communicator tells the truth. You see, he does, this is Nigel Farage we're talking about in case anybody is in any way confused. He dresses the part of an, not my kind of sartorial choices, but I can understand why he makes them,

the old blazer and the, sometimes he wears pink trousers and people, tweedy jackets when he feels appropriate, does none of that appeal to you? I don't mind the clothes. That's his business, and I'm not a snappy dresser at all. But I mind what he says,

I mind what he does, I mind the contempt that he obviously feels for the people in the constituency that he represents. Why does, I think he has contempt because he's never there. So that to me is not a serious person. I know that he isn't here, but if he were here, I'm sure he would say he is there as often as is appropriate. And Miriam, he stood again and he won again in that by-election. And of course, I don't agree with everything. You can't agree with everything anybody says, can you?

I like to hear an opinion that I might not agree with because it challenges my own perceptions of the world. And sometimes we all need that, don't we? We can't all just live in an echo chamber where everybody thinks the same as I do about everything. It would be agreeable to me. No, we can't. And I will allow people not to think the same as I do.

I can't understand it, but I will allow it. Right. I'm motivated by humanitarian feelings, I think. I'm not a great thinker. I'm not very bright. I love to help people. I want people to have a good time. That's why I make people laugh. But I feel anxious about people who are poor. I do. I feel I really care about that. I'm not going to give them my money. I'm not enormously generous like that. But I do give a large proportion of my own. income to charity because I think I should. I think it's the right thing to do. So you've said you do give generously to charity. Yes. So you are giving money to people without much of a say. You are. Yes, I think that's important. I think it's if you have a lot and I have a lot, I've made a lot of money and I don't need all of it because it's just me and my partner. So I think we should be generous.

And I don't want to blame the poorest people. And do you think that in your book you talk a lot about Britain and, of course, the various different parts of Britain, which sometimes don't agree with each other, which always seems to me to be slightly ridiculously parochial, the Jordy's don't like people from Sunderland and people in Liverpool don't get on with Manchester. I mean, the whole thing is crazy, isn't it really?

Well, famous punch cartoon, which was, I think, 1875, for people sitting chatting. And the guy goes by and Manon says to the other man, who's he? And he says, a stranger. And so he said, oh, Eve off a brick at him. And that's the English for you. We don't like somebody who comes from somewhere else.

Well, tough. Tough. We've got to start liking them. We've got to start accepting people. You presumably can do a range of British accents, can you? I mean, you must have had to. Yes, I've done a few. I mean, Scottish is obviously easy for me.

Because of your dad. Because of daddy, yeah. Yeah. Could you do us a little? Was he Glasgow or Edinburgh? Oh, he was Glasgow, dear. He was not only Glasgow. He was the Gormals.

And I'm trying to do a Gormals action, but people say that I'm too posh, even like now when I'm talking like this. Yeah, I think maybe there's a hint of Morningside in Edinburgh there, isn't there? No. I don't have anything to do with Edinburgh from vocally. I mean, it's great. I love Edinburgh. What a great

city. But no, I'm totally Glasgow. Now, that's what I love. And not only Glasgow, but Southside Glasgow. So there's a bit of a whine in it like that. The fact that your mum was a Scouseau, I don't think I've ever heard you do a Liverpool accent. It's very hard to do Liverpool.

Well, I can teach you. Are you Liverpool? Yeah. Go on them. All right. All right. Not bad. Not bad. You've almost got it. No, I've got to try and I've got to try.

I think, you know, when I think of Liverpool, obviously I think of, you know, the Beatles. Yes. And the way they talk like that. Slightly flat? Flat and a bit slow. No, we're not slow. No, I don't mean they're mentally slow, but they talk slow like that.

You see, you've got it. That's actually really good. Well, I'm an actress. I should. Yes, no, no, I've forgotten. You were an actress there. I should have fallen out in mind. But you did, you had elocution lessons, didn't you?

I did. Now, I think your teacher was Miss. Very plowment. That's right. I did write that down. Red rest her dear soul. And I think elocution lessons have gone off. They're out of fashion a bit, aren't they?

But did she really help you? She helped me to speak clearly. Yeah. And to give vowels the full benefit and consonants the snap. and crackle that consonants need. And what I always say is the vowels carry the emotion and the consonants carry the sense.

And if you think about it, it's true. And that's why the end of a sentence and the end of a word is crucial. And a lot of even broadcasters and presenters, what they do is they start off very strongly and then as they get near the end, they forget and they go soft like that. It fades.

Yes. It fades. I don't fade. And people who communicate don't fade. You've got to keep going to the end. Right. Do you, do you, and this is a stupid question. Do you practice?

Do you use your voice when you're on your own just to make sure you've still got it? No, not to make sure I still got it. I sometimes, I talk to myself because it's, it amuses me. Right. And sometimes, you know, I really like. doing voices like that, you know, because I've known a few people like that, and I like to put on that voice sometimes

when I'm talking, you know. Just to yourself? Yeah, to myself. Because I don't want people to think I'm making fun of them because a lot of people talk like that and it's absolutely serious. And I'm serious, but I think it's friendly. That is friendly.

Is there a British accent you don't like? What's your least favourite? No, there isn't one, don't like. It amuses me to do very upper-class sounds because I don't think mummy wanted me to sound. You know, like that, because it makes, I always say when I do that voice, it's like, it's as if people were crying. They're not crying. They're just, they're just squeezing it through slightly flattened epiglotties. But there's something about it that makes me laugh very much. You have made me cry with laughter when you impersonated a very lovely lady. I know that she was

a lovely lady who collected you when you were going to be a guest of the king. I think it was at Sandringham and somebody was dispatched to pick you up from the railway station and she was absolutely. She was a lovely person. Actually Valerie Pitts. Right. Who married the conductor. Oh right. Yes. Yeah. The Covent Garden conductor. Yeah. Sir George. Oh, yes. Shulte.

Shulte. And she was like that and she said, I soon had to feed her. And I, I mean, I just said, I don't do, I'll solve. And I didn't understand one word from the station at Kingslin to Sandringham. But I knew her heart was good. Yes. And you can tell that, actually, can't you? Yes.

Somebody delivers. Yes. Speaking of regal matters, do you have a view on Harry and Megan returning to the UK? No, I don't. And I think it's cheeky to have a view of people that you know nothing about. Oh, Miriam, that's never stop you. No, I'm sorry. I defend my position because I talk about people I know or I know something about.

I know nothing about them. I don't know anything about him. I've never met him. I know his family and I like his family. I love his father. But I don't know anything about. I don't know anything about Prince William and her Kate, Catherine. I don't know anything about them.

So I won't give an opinion. When I know people, I'll give an opinion. And I love the king and I love Queen Camilla. So do you think that the king, I mean, Harry is his son, that he'll be glad he's back? I don't know because all I know is what I read in the papers. Well, okay, let me put, I mean, you're being. I mean, what do you think? What do you think about you?

it. There is a family, two members of it are terribly ill or have been terribly ill with cancer, which is an affliction I wouldn't wish on anybody. The son decides to marry somebody that comes from another world and he goes off back with her. I mean, there's a division in the family and I don't want to make things worse because I love the dad and stepmom or whatever they call at the queen. I feel fond of them and I don't want to make things worse and I don't know anything.

So I think it's not sensible to ask me for an opinion. No, no, I absolutely. If I may say so. No, no, look, you can say what you like. One of the things I didn't agree with in the book because I do take issue with some of your opinions. Good.

Yorkshire pudding. You really are again, I mean, I don't understand this. You say Yorkshire pudding. It takes up... A waste of space. It takes up the whole of your plate and gives you nothing. Well, I don't like Yorkshire pudding.

I don't enjoy it. I love my food. But you get this great mound of crust. And it's brown and it promises something. It's golden brown. Golden brown. And it kind of smiles at you as it comes towards you on the plate. And you think I'm going to have fun with this.

Nothing. Nothing. I don't what you mean. But in isolation, it's a grim prospect, Yorkshire pudding. But combined with... gravy, horseradish. Oh, I think it's a taste. I love horseradish.

Yes, it's very underrated, I think. I love horseradish. But I'm sorry, I can't lie about Yorkshire pudding either. No, you haven't. It's just not spoken to me. There is a little bit of flatulence in the book, inevitably, as we are dealing with you. Talking of wind, my goodness, when you come out of the taxi this morning, my goodness. I blew in here.

Yes, that's because of the really weird wind tunnel outside this morning. It is. No, honestly, even on a brutal hot summer's day, that wind tunnel was still in operation. Actually, I must ask you, how have you coped with the heat? Not terribly well. I have fans, and I put the fans on. I've got two on each side of my bed. Right. And I turn them on. That, for me, is...

I don't like aircon. Why not? I can't control it. It just blows, and it blows usually from where... it's at down to me and I want to be able to control it where I want it. On a really hot night you should just have come and slept outside this building you'd have been absolutely fine. That's what it would be freezing. Along with all the other poor souls. Yes that's true and that's not funny. You do you do say in this book that there was a troop of professional I had to write

this down because I couldn't believe it. A troop of professional fatters you allege really were hired to perform for the high king of Ireland. Apparently. Where did you get that from? Oh, I probably got it from Wikipedia or something. Right, okay, yes. No, because I do believe in Wikipedia. Right.

To Wikipedia. You've established your creations. I deserve some respect for that. Oh, you deserve respect for a multitude of reasons. Actually, that's interesting. So in terms of modern tech and relatively new organizations, Wikipedia is something you do put your faith in. Yes, I do.

Yeah. I do. Are you, what about Apple? meta Instagram. I don't like them. You don't. I'm on it.

I'm on Facebook and I'm on the Instagram because I was told that that's how you make your product known. And this is the problem that you and many other people including me,

we do face that if we are going to be in modern media and try to communicate it's all very well being snooty about these organisations and these platforms but we do have to use them.

Yes, I think you do. I think you do have to use them. And I want to make money and you make money through Instagram. I've got merch. I've got merchandise. You know, I've got t-shirts and mugs and things that I sell at my venues. Now, I don't charge 75 quid like Oasis did. I just, I charge. I think it's, I think 20 quid I charge, but it's 100% cotton. I only have the best. stuff. I won't muck about. I don't cheat the public. You didn't go to the Oasis gigs, did you? No. No. I'm a bit of a snob about music. What, what, oh, so not popular? I'm, I'm not a popular music person. I love, I love Janice Joplin. She was for me. And I love Dusty Springfield, because she was gay and gorgeous. And I liked her music. But if you played, me Taylor Swift and I bear her no ill will, I just wouldn't recognise it. I don't listen to that. But if you played me to Chile Bartholay singing Vivaldi, whoa, that is something. Right. That I love. Yes, I can, I'll take that. I wanted to end actually on just a...

Oh, we over? Well, only because... Oh, I've mucked about. No, no, it's only because I just looked at my watch in a very unprofessional way and realised that your car was coming very soon. Just to end on a slightly reflective note, because I know you are concerned about the young and about how life looks for them. I want Britain to be better. We're not good enough at the moment. And we were better when I was young.

And the young deserve better. Now, I don't have children. I've never wanted children. Had my womb out when I was 34, I think. So if I had a child, I'd be a bloody miracle, wouldn't it? But I don't want children. I want children. to be happier, have a better chance than any of the politicians seem to be giving them.

But honestly, if you look around the world, where is better than Britain? Nowhere. There isn't anywhere that's better. It's all a pile of poop. That's the trouble. The world has gone sour. And we've got to try to make it better. We can do it. We can do it if we're kind. And that's my last message. And that's the end of my book. Be kind. Who else, but Miriam Margulies, and it's not a bad thought, is it really? We should all just try to be a bit kinder than perhaps some of us have been. Let's work on it.

Miriam, her book is out now. It's called Miriam's Full English, and I think it's going to be in many a... No, I'm not going to say it. Christmas stocking? God. Oh my God. You just said it. No, we can't mention that until we get past the Halloween.

No, actually, you're right. Who's our guest tomorrow? Our guest tomorrow is the TV critic and writer Scott Bryan and he has written a book called Out Now and it's about watching television as a young queer man and it's really fascinating and actually do you know what it made me think Jane so he talks a lot about Section 28

because he was in school when Section 28 was in place so he wasn't taught that it's completely normal to be gay and actually I think we should have asked Ian Dale more about that yesterday. In fairness, Ian, well, because Ian Dale, I say, of course. Ian Dale is gay himself. And he does mention that in the book. Well, he does. You're right, we should have mentioned it.

We were slightly, we were juggling yesterday because Andy Burnham was on the television. But I did think actually it's such an important part of Thatcher's legacy. I mean, Section 28, and I'll talk about this. with Scott tomorrow, if you grew up and you didn't see anything in your school that confirmed that you were fine, how awful that is. I mean, you can't go back and relive your childhood again. And Section 28 was just dreadful. It was a dreadful, dreadful thing to have been imposed. So, yes, we should have talked about it more. I'm just saying Mayor Culper here. Yes, okay. Well, we've both done a couple of apologies.

Oh, my God, Lord. I'll tell you, we've thrown everything at you. Right, and we're back tomorrow. Please be a part of this. Jane and Fee at Times. Radio. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

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