Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Researching Ozempic for cats (with Tamsin Greig)

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Jane has been to a VERY important dinner and she's not letting Fi forget it. Amongst her many dinner anecdotes, they also discuss well-timed wees, fat cats and teenage drinks. Plus, actor Tamsin Greig drops in to discuss her new Paramount Plus show 'Sexy Beast'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Come on. Because we've got showbiz anecdotes to get through. We've got, look at the emails. We've got hundreds of emails. Hundreds. Jane's back, everybody. She's back. She made it back. I'll put off going to the loo until later then. Hundreds. Jane's back, everybody. She's back. She made it back.

I'll put off going to the loo until later then. Should I be concerned? What, about the frequency of my visits? Yes. Have you just drunk too much tea today? I just got all the timing wrong of the loo visits. You do have to be careful, don't you, when you're trapped in a studio, although because there are two of us, we're not really trapped.

You can always go for a comfort break during a radio show that's very true and actually yesterday because i was flying solo i did have to think about that before i went on air and i didn't get it very right actually i was absolutely busting by the end yes what a lovely thought what a lovely thought now uh jane has got some very exciting uh news because um because you did an appearance, didn't you, as a guest on the How to Fail podcast, which is presented by the very fragrant Elizabeth Day. And in celebration of, I think, is it the 223rd season? It's not, it's the 20th of the podcast. It was an anniversary dinner.

Well, we's kind of... We're not here to plug another bloody podcast, are we? I think you will find that that dinner was entirely to plug a podcast. It's a very enjoyable dinner, I tell you. And what can I say about it? It's been acquired by a new owner. It's been bought out by a conglomerate.

It's in celebration. It was a very fandango dinner uh at a very nice place actually i don't know whether i can really go into too much detail about where the venue was but it was delicious food and i had um i can't pretend that i'm so goggle-eyed at those events that i don't eat because i do enjoy my food and it was lovely and when you're in a restaurant and you're not paying and it was a particularly nice one, I was... He just knows down. Jane's troughing, everybody.

It'll be a long, breaking conversation. I actually, in fairness, don't think I made my way to the pudding. I think that might have passed me by. What did you have? What was on the menu? What was my starter? It was a burrata with a very nice parma ham coiled around it. They were in a kind of embrace. It was a dollop, but that does it a disservice. It was more of a mound, artfully placed.

Lovely. Followed by? I had the guinea fowl. I always choose guinea fowl when it's on the menu. No, in fairness, I thought it was chicken until somebody told me it was guinea fowl. Isn't it a different colour? Isn't it a bit brown? I don't know. I wasn't really focusing on the colour.

I didn't have my glasses on either. The big thing is the guest list because you had whet our appetite on the production team because you had said that you might be sitting between Jamie Dornan and Ed Miliband I mean FFS Ed Miliband I know I mean an absolute hunk what can we say the funny is a funny funny is um I really like Ed Miliband yes and I was about to say so I'm being I'm being yes I know I know you, I know you are.

I know you are. You're being a bit... Yes, you are being a bit silly. Yes. For once, it's been acknowledged. She also said on the radio show today that I can't park, which I may well have said it in the comfort and security of this podcast situation.

I don't mean it to be broadcast on a radio programme. Anyway, I can park as long as it's going forwards. So that's absolutely fine. It's just when you have to be really, really complicated that I can't always get it right. OK, come on, let's get back to the boys. So, no, so there was an amazing seating plan and I did strike lucky, let's be honest,

because I was sitting between, and there weren't many people there, there wasn't sort of 400 people, it was about 23 or 24 people, and I was sitting between, quite literally, the former leader of the Labour Party and Jamie Dornan. How cool is that? And I should also say, shout out, sitting opposite me, Dolly Alderton.

Oh, lovely Dolly. So, you know, I mean, you're not going to have a bad night, are you? So, did you do that thing where you talked to Jamie during the barata and Ed was on guinea fowl? No, Ed and I did both our starter and our main course. Didn't that leave Jamie out in the cold? Just a moment. Then I had to shoot across the room because I had a message for Doctor Who, who was also there shooting.

Shooty Gatwell, who's a brilliant actor very friendly man wearing might i say a most lovely uh pink short sleeved i think it might even have been a knitted top or no a knitted effect top with gold buttons and he looked brilliant in it i would wager that 95 of the male population would struggle in that garment. He looked extraordinary. Can you imagine it on Ed Miliband? I can't even imagine it on Jamie Dornan, if I'm honest. It just looked perfect, though, on him. Just absolutely gorgeous.

Anyway, I passed the message on to him, and then I went back to my seat, and Ed had moved somewhere else. So it was a very social evening, lots of people moving around the table. So I then got a chance to talk to Trini Woodall and Jamie Dornan. Now, what is your opening gambit with Jamie Dornan? What did I say? Do you know? I don't know. I'll be totally honest with this. And I think

anyone, I mean, I was by some margin the least well-known person in that room. Let's just lay that out there. So obviously most people hadn't got a bloody clue who I was, which because other people there included Joe Wicks, Nigel Slater, brilliant novelist Marion Keys. I'm trying to come up... Are you sure that all of the, you know, other people from different disciplines would genuinely know who all of those people were? I don't want to... Jamie Dornan and Ed Miliband are very recognisable, aren't they? Because, you know, one's on TV and one, you know, is an influential figure in politics.

But would, I don't know, would Doctor Who know who Marion Keys was? I don't know. And I don't know whether Marion Keys knew who Doctor Who was, to be honest. I think you're doing yourself down. No, I don't.

I don't think I am. I think I'm just being brutally honest, as I like to be, filled with self-knowledge. But do you know what? It was a lovely, it was a really enjoyable evening. And Jamie Dornan does have the reputation as being someone who's easy to talk to and pleasant. I know that sounds like I'm damning with faint praise,

but he was really, he seemed incredibly likeable, very down to earth, made me laugh, took an interest in other people. I don't think you can say fairer than that. And I just had to forget about Fifty Shades of Grey. I just didn't let any of those thoughts cross my mind. Have you seen the film? I've seen enough of the film and read enough of the book to know what Jamie had been through. Well, bear in mind that this is a room full of people who failed a lot. Some shocking, Rick Astley.

Some terrible failures. I'm glad it was a good evening. I do think that, I mean, we should just mention Elizabeth Dare a bit more in all of that, because she and her people had put that night together. Well, she knows what I think about it because I've obviously told her, but it was just a really enjoyable night. But I think she's done something so fantastic with that podcast, proved the longevity of a podcast,

proved that you can grow something from something very small because she just started it herself, drawing on a rosette. I think she's a, you know, I think that it's a great concept. It is a great concept. And she's got some amazing interviews. Yeah, and she's really, you know, she's nailed it. So all hail to her. Yeah, no.

Can you remember what your failures were on it? A failure to listen, because that was one of the things. In fact, we all got a napkin with one of our failures embroidered on it. Mine hasn't made its way home. I'd like to know where that's gone. I was a bit tipsy towards the end. One of my failures was failure to listen. And I didn't listen much as a child,

and I'm trying to do better in adult life. I also couldn't speak a foreign language or couldn't play a musical instrument. Ed Miliband, who, well, I'll get on to him in a minute, but his napkin said failure to win the 2015 election ouch which is i mean but the great thing about him and this is not a party political podcast but he is likable he's very self-deprecating and he's interesting and interested and the way he was treated around that time by the by the media let's be honest it was pretty

hideous and I think if anyone had the opportunity to just spend a bit of time just just in conversation with someone like him who was so derided in so many different ways you know I don't want to talk about the bacon sandwich but you know all of that stuff that went on you know he's I think he's come out of it exceptionally well, but I think he still, frankly, bears some of the scars. I think it was really tough, really tough. So it was a great evening. And I was talking to Marion Keyes, the writer, and she's got a new book coming out. She's actually recording the audio book now. And so it'll be great to get her on when that book comes out.

But she was really interesting on the kind of social anxiety you know which I definitely have you know and I think a lot of people when they face an evening out would think well I don't really want to go and I certainly if when it actually came to on Friday although nothing would have stopped me going really um there was still a big part of me that kept thinking gosh wouldn't it be great if I just got really quite a severe head cold just at the last minute and just wasn't able to go. But sometimes walking into a room of that sort, certainly, it takes courage, doesn't it?

I think Marion and I were probably not alone in that room, having had thoughts previously like, do I really want to be there with all those people? I don't know. Anyway, there you go. Bear Gryllsills he was also there does that not a bear in real life does he still do his reasons to be cheerful podcast um he um yes he does bits and bobs with jeff lloyd who's another very nice man who wasn't there yep because here

i like that yes it was very good yeah yeah yeah so uh, a lovely evening enjoyed by all. Now, emails, emails. Yes. Oh, I should say who we've got on as our guest today. Oh, Tamsin Gregg, the actor who is talking about her new series that she appears in called Sexy Beast, which is on Paramount+, which is a gangland drama set in the 1990s. And it's got themes of pornography, actually, to be. I mean, I'm saying that in a funny tone just because it keys into what we've been discussing.

And she's very interesting about lots of things. So do stay with us for that. Just to fill you in, we were talking about strange classes that me and the other Jane had been to because I'd been to aromatherapy yoga at the weekend i had yeah sorry i just did a birthday i think it was the thought of aromatherapy yoga it was quite strange it was quite strange my burp or the no the aromatherapy right okay yeah it's a new thing did you go with a friend no i did it i did it in that kind of it's january and i really need to do something new and a little bit like your pilates which you thought that you'd be a regular pilates until

the instructor said you hadn't been since 1998 i think that i i'm a yoga practitioner but i haven't done anything on a yoga mat not even yoga uh since the early noughties so i thought no i should do that. And also because everything, I mean, literally every joint is starting to ache ahead of 55. So I thought I'd do that. Well, I mean, I will say again about Pilates, I know it's a bit of a cliche, but it's the only exercise that I've ever stuck at. And I have been going consistently now for a couple of years.

Highly recommended. Does help with the joints, definitely. Can we just say hello to Hilary? Hilary, we both know that you're somewhere you don't want to be at the moment uh lots of love and we're going to keep you company through the week thank you janine is in germany uh loves listening every day friday to sunday i go back and listen to the radio show that's very kind of you the radio show is available for free if you down the time download the times Radio app. We're on between 3 and 5, Monday to Thursday. Janine says, I've been holding on to this memory for so long and at last the opportunity has arisen to be able to share it. As Fee mentioned her yoga class experience on today's podcast.

This was a Pilates class in Germany. I'm fluent in German, but very occasionally vocabulary gets very specific or people talk in regional accents. Towards the end of this class the only difficulty so far was not being able to locate my Schlüsselbein and I'm just going to fail on all of these. Right. Where the hell is it? I know bein means leg and Schlüssel means key but that doesn't really help find it and on looking at all of the other participants in the room I could not see for the life of me what they were moving anyway we were instructed to lie down and breathe slowly best part of the

class right there the teacher then asked us to envisage a cat say quick German lesson here Katze in German is cat but when spoken with a strong palatinate accent it sounds more like Ketzer which means candles so i'm imagining a cat as that's how it said she elaborated imagine a big white cat my mind acknowledged briefly that this was rather strange but hey ho and i was imagining my best big white cat the teacher then says now light the cow with a flame. Oh, my God. Whereupon I realised my mix-up with cats and candles, but not before my imagination has already lit the evil monster cat and everyone is so quiet and relaxed lying on the floor.

It was all I could do. It was all I could manage not to combust myself. Never did Pilates again and about ten years down the line, I do know where my schlushenbein is it's a collarbone is it the collarbone yeah okay right uh that that does sound very intense we had a big fat white cat cat i can't speak big fat white cat in our back garden yesterday did a poo and uh the kid sent me a film of dora looking at it looking at the poo no looking at the cat she doesn't go out not in wind uh she was at the poo? No, looking at the cat. She doesn't go out. Not in wind.

She was in the house. You must be joking. But the astonishment and the absolute indignation on her face that another really quite enormous creature had come into our garden

and was using our lavatory facilities. Ugh, disgusting. The wind seems to have abated, but we're told there's another storm coming today. Jocelyn's on her way.

Right, OK. God, I see. I don't know whether you i think you did do this this yesterday this is from rachel in sydney um and it's about pornography my oldest son is 11 and i recently followed advice that i actually heard about a couple of years ago a psychologist described how if you're watching a film and the main character decides to get a taxi to the office, then the movie will show them getting into the cab and then getting out the other end. It doesn't show them in real time waiting for the cab and then getting in and then sitting in the back of it for 15 minutes and then getting out at the end. And it's the same with porn. Just like in any movie, you only see the edited highlights. All the boring bits or the times when things go wrong get edited out. I think this alone can create unrealistic expectations about what sex is like,

which at best will make sex disappointing and at worst damaging. I simplified the analogy for my 11-year-old football mad son by saying, imagine if your friend only ever saw soccer mini game highlights on telly and then you took them to a real game, do you think they'd be bored? To which he replied, yes. So clearly I'm just starting the conversation with him. Rachel, thank you for that.

I think that's an interesting analogy, not one I've heard before. It does make absolute sense, though. So thank you. And there have been so many very helpful suggestions, actually, about good analogies to use uh did we talk about this on the podcast or on the show the mum who had said it would be like learning to drive by watching fast and furious oh i haven't heard that so if we did do it on the show with me there i wasn't

concentrating okay well well please could you try i don. I'm moving... It's only two hours. I'm more of a showbiz person now, really. Oh, God. I can't be expected. Eve, this is just going to become interminable. Yes. Absolutely interminable. Jamie was going on a modelling shoot. Oh, my God. He told me all about it.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Stop. I wasn't going on a modelling shoot. Taking your placenta home for consumption. Yes. Now, some people were appalled by that conversation yesterday. I'd have stopped it if I'd been there.

What happened? So we had a lovely email from Elaine, who sent us the fact sheet from the Women's Royal Hospital in Victoria, in Australia, about taking your placenta home and we were discussing sorry they actually encourage it yes so then they give you a sheet i mean i was never given a sheet were you given a sheet no in a uk hospital no and we were just mulling over me and the jaymul karens just this extraordinary final paragraph oh i've got sheets on the bed no a sheet. Oh like an information sheet. An information sheet. I was going to say things were bad but not that bad.

Placentas for consumption should be treated just as you would fresh raw meat and should be placed in your cooler as soon as possible but the placenta should not be stored in a fridge where food is kept. But then you know they're kind of encouraging you to eat it. Well, isn't that weird? That's OK if you're a two-fridge household, I suppose. I mean, there must be some people rich enough to have a fridge just for placentas. Yes, but what would the other fridge be for? I don't know. Dog food? I'm not sure.

Anyway, we just need to know a little bit more about that place. Could you pass me that sheet, please? I'd just like to take it home. I mean, you never know. Are you going to dig yours out? Lots of people have been teaching their cats all kinds of things. Annie, can't pretend I've ever trained a cat myself, but many moons ago I had a cheeky, gorgeous tortoiseshell cat named Elsa. This minx not only taught herself to knock on the foot-level letterbox

for entry into the house, but she taught several other neighbouring cats the same trick. It wasn't unusual to have three or four other cats knocking on the letterbox one after the other, demanding entry, then taking up positions in the sitting room for Elsa to host her feline soirees. It felt like a members-only club. When she wasn't playing hostess,

she could be found laying in the entrance of the local pub, gregarious to a fault. What a character she was. Oh, she does sound like a character. Indeed. Yeah. It's lovely when cats go out and about, isn't it? Make themselves known.

There's a couple that lurk around in particular supermarkets and become favourites of customers. And I think that's great. Yes. Yeah. I think Barbara and Brian actually live somewhere else and calls, honestly Jane, he's so large, so large. I've seen pictures. Yeah, I think he must be eating in at least two or three other households. Yeah. Is there a Zempic for cats? I think I might have to look into it.

Well there is that new treatment today, the balloon you can swallow. Don't tempt me. Not you. That's not something that I should try at home with my cats. I was wrestling a little bit the last time we did this. This passes for work. It is incredible, I know. But the last time we did this, I was in the grip of, well, not so much a hangover as kind of lots of cocktails, followed by a nocturnal vomiting incident not mine uh

followed by an accept an excessively long day and the fee was then talking about could i be um allergic to sulfites oh yes that's good yes do that well this is from sarah who says she's in uh she's from the divine the wine.co.uk which suggests she probably knows something the most likely culprit for jane's wine hangovers aside from the alcohol is amines amines such as histamine these occur naturally in wine but increase significantly during malolactic conversion a process that all red wines go through and some of the more full-bodied white ones. Jane would therefore be wise to avoid red wine and choose light-bodied, crisp white wines. She could also try taking an antihistamine

prior to drinking other wines to see if this negates any effects. Well, that's worth trying. I haven't drunk red wine for 25 years. Just couldn't go near it. Why? What happened the last time you did? Oh, no, I just go bright red, bright red in the face almost instantaneously.

I suspect I've never had really, really expensive red wine. I think you're a churchgoer. I don't think you'd call me a regular churchgoer. I've certainly been to church. But do you remember Bulgarian country wine? Why would I because it was marketed I think to eager teens back

in the 1980s and it was about £1.30 it was affordable and we did used to indulge and I certainly had one too many of those one night do you remember that people will remember if they're my age and grew up in the UK

because it had a sort of bucolic idyll label. But the effects were anything but idyllic. Right. For some reason, our first kind of, I'm not sure whether we should go down this road of teenage drinking, but we were quite fond of Cinzano. Oh, yeah. But was that Joan Collins and

Leonard Rossiter in the advert? I think we didn't. That was lovely. It was so funny. We didn't realise quite how much the advert had influenced us because obviously that advert for anybody who doesn't remember it's worth looking it up on YouTube. So Joan Collins played glamorous Joan Collins and Leonard Rossiter played this kind of bumbling, salivating man who ended up next to her on a plane and tipped his glass over her and all that kind of stuff. But it was a very, very funny ad. But of course it wasn't aimed at us at all,

A, because we probably weren't old enough to be drinking it, but also it was meant to be, what was that meant to convey? That you could be as glamorous as... Leonard Rossiter. Yeah. But obviously it must have seeped through into our impressionable minds. Well, clearly it did. Yeah, because that's what we chose to drink.

But also, I mean, it was just quite sweet. Oh, yes. And that's always the key, isn't it? That's the key when you're tiny. I had a much more sophisticated palate. Yeah. isn't it? That's the key when you're tiny. I had a much more sophisticated palette. Yeah, so lots of you have been in touch as well about... Hang on, sorry for the racket. While Fi does that, I want to bring in Florence. I was going to say about the Princess of Wales. Oh, well we'll talk about her in a moment, but

Florence says, I started wearing hearing aids at 16 and they were difficult to get used to. I never really did. I didn't mind what they looked like, but the sound was absolutely unbearable. I haven't worn them for years. I can't imagine how loud the world must be for others. I live in Glasgow city centre and in a strange way,

I do feel quite lucky and relieved to be able to live in a quieter world. I realise this is a huge privilege and I'm extremely grateful that my hearing loss isn't getting worse. Well, that is I'm really glad to hear about that, Florence, because that is important. But she just wants to say the more I grow, the more respect and admiration I have for my mum, for her kindness, her care, her patience and her generosity. I can't remember a time in my life when I didn't feel loved. An amazing thing to be able to say and feel. And that's all thanks to her.

She's taught me to work hard, speak up for myself and others and to be kind. A really underrated quality and to be proud as well. I just want her to know I'm so proud to be her daughter. Florence, I think that's absolutely lovely. And let's hope your mum does get to hear this. I don't think we know your mum's name, but you have enclosed a photograph of her. And this is the bit that made me fall in love with your mum. She is holding a taxidermy badger on the Paris metro. There we are. She's clearly. Oh, yes. I mean, that's a good, good

photo. That's a very good badger. Well, it's an adequate stuffed object. It's huge. Enormous. And Florence, I think you're lucky to have your mum. And by the sound of things, she's lucky to have you. So thank you very much for that thoughtful email. Now, a lot of people think that there's a bit of hypocrisy going on because in our conversation with Robert Hardman

about the biography that he's written of King Charles. He said that he was very impressed with King Charles's honesty about his prostate procedure, which has led a lot of people to say, well, you know, shouldn't we therefore be a little bit disappointed because the Princess of Wales, Catherine, has not been forthcoming about why she's in hospital and lots of people think that she should be a bit more open about whatever procedure she has had to have. Do you see a hypocrisy there? I don't see a hypocrisy because we don't know what's caused her hospital stay

and it's quite a significant period of time. Am I nosy enough to be interested in what... Of course I am, because I would be such a liar if I said that I wasn't interested in finding out what had made her have to have this length of stay. But it's not hypocrisy, because it's presumably the king's choice to be completely open and it wouldn't...

I don't think hypocrisy is the right word here. I think it's his decision, which he's made, to talk openly about his enlarged prostate. So maybe it's just double standards. I think it might be a hint of a double standard. Also, she has young children, all at vulnerable ages. young children at a very all at vulnerable ages I think they absolutely deserve to be kept happy and secure in their childhood while this is going on and I think that's a that's the big big factor here yeah so no I don't think it would only hypocrisy is the right word. No. So I think she's just, you know, I'm not very interested, actually,

if I can be brutally honest. Lizzie says, long-time listener, first-time emailer. I love the show and listen each morning while mucking out my horses. Oh. Listening to your conversation with Robert Hardman this morning. I can just say, that's the class of listener we're after. It is, isn't it?

People with enough fridges to contain placentas, just on their own. And some horses. Mucking at horses. Listening to your conversation with Robert Hardman this morning regarding the current Royal Health Woes, I felt compelled to write to clear up the mystery of the Princess of Wales' recent operation.

When I casually said to my husband yesterday that I wondered what was wrong with her, he confidently, with just a hint of scorn at my ignorance, said, it's her prostate. It was on the news this morning. He's 61, but I fear his dreams of a career in medicine are now in tatters. Very best wishes. VBW from Lizzie.

Where is that man currently working? Because we do not want any of our listeners to be in any way treated by him. I love that. Right. Do you think we should get to Tamsin because we've talked quite a bit and she's quite a long interview and Eve's tired.

Yeah, all right. Yep. Okay, let's do it. Eve's tired because she's been lovely, haven't you? You've been out in the pub with a friend helping out. So let's give you a break. Tamsin Gregg is one of our finest actors. Fact.

Black Books, Green Wing, Episodes, The Archers and Jane does ask a special Archers question towards the end of this interview. I just went out and made myself

a cup of tea. Friday night dinner Shaun of the Dead. She's nailed them all and she's playing in this new series which is called Sexy Beast.

It's a gangland drama on Paramount Plus. A matriarch. Permanent fag in hand. I mean, she's terrifying. She is, yep. You wouldn't mess with her. I certainly wouldn't.

She's called Cecilia, the woman that she's playing. And as Tamsin explains in the interview, she is one of those very, very kind of, I mean, almost brutal women, but there's a reason behind that. We asked her to tell us a little bit about the character i'm playing cecilia logan in the paramount plus prequel series to the uh cult film i say uh of sexy beast that came out in 2000 uh this series looks at something like a decade before

that saying well how did these guys end up in Spain? And looking back at their context. And I play Cecilia Logan, who is the older sister of the character Don Logan, who in the film was played by Sabine Kingsley. And Cecilia Logan is, as you say, a matriarch not to be messed with. There's quite a lot of violence in the series, isn't there? And does that trouble you at all as an actor as a viewer both i think the violence uh is very well handled in the show i think it's surprising just how much

you don't see and uh it's left to the viewer's imagination to actually engage with what's going on. You don't see very much blood. You don't see weapons being wielded so much, which I think is an elegant way of looking at that world that is more violent than most of us ever experience in our lives. It is set in the 1990s, which is, I think, the further we get away from that decade, the more we realise it was complicated, actually, wasn't it? And it was definitely a time where I think women were encouraged to believe

that there was something that they could do that was really powerful and really emancipating that they couldn't have done before in a man's world and that's quite a key part of the plot isn't it can you explain a bit more about the adult film star who is trying to make her way in a male-dominated male-pleasured industry and carve exactly that kind of 90s niche. That was really well put together and long sentence. I thought actually it had about four too many sub-clauses. But well done for following it. Well done for getting to the end of that and me not barging in.

Sarah Green plays the younger version of Amanda Redmond, who was in the film, plays the uh yeah the adult film star character of didi uh sarah green is absolutely stunning in the film and the one that uh gal dove which is the ray winston character now played by james mccardle uh falls for big time and yes she is uh trying to find find her own independence and authority and power within that male world, which I think is also handled very elegantly. I don't know that these women, Didi and Cecilia, would call themselves feminists, even that coming on the back of the, you know, the 80s resurgence of the feminist voice. But I think that they would acknowledge

that they are engaging in their own ability to be powerful within a world that has, up to that point, excluded their agency. Yeah. And, I mean, the rest of the cast and the plot of Sexy Beast, I mean, it's a very masculine thing, isn't it? It's about gangs, it's about power, it's about territory.

It is. It's also a love story, weirdly. It's a love story between Gal and Don and that childhood friendship that has developed into this... Can I just... Because I hadn't seen the film. Oh, right.

So Don is a psychopath, isn't he? Well, I mean, Ben Kingsley's performances was breathtakingly dangerous. Yeah. But Gal, his childhood friend, has a kind of perverse loyalty to him or just a decent loyalty to him? Well, I mean, I think he has a loyalty to him. And when you grow up with people, regardless of how they operate, if you have history

and you're enmeshed right and you can't get out of that net uh i think it's you know it's a complicated uh dance you know sort of love dynamic so you have that love affair between gal and don and then the love affair between gal and didi then Dawn, in his context of having an older sister, Cecilia, who's a kind of surrogate mother in the absence of any kind of parenting, she has saved him from an abusive scenario in their childhood by getting rid of the monster who's been causing so much distress to Don. But she does it in a very, very tough way and makes him watch the demise of the monster

to prove that she is powerful enough to get rid of the monster under the bed. Yeah. It's a kind of warped love. Did you enjoy the 90s as a person, not as an actress, but just as a woman? I really liked the music. I was out a lot. I went dancing a lot. And I was starting out in the business. So things were exciting. And I didn't watch a lot of Friends, weirdly.

You know, most people were in kind of like mad for telly, but I was just out enjoying myself. I think probably I would look after myself better. Well, you've done all right. She looks good, doesn't she? She does. You were in episodes with Matt LeBlanc, weren't you? Did he know that you didn't really stay in and watch Friends?

Yeah, I didn't tell him at the time. I told him afterwards. I think probably it got, I think I said it in an interview, that when it says, I read the first script and it said, it's Matt LeBlanc, we want Matt LeBlanc in the show. When it had originally been played by Richard Griffiths and our hit show in the UK, which is taken over to the States. We went to Matt LeBlanc and I went, oh, now I know the name. So I did go and do a quick Google. Yes. I think he was charmed by that. That I didn't know who he was. Yes.

Well, charmed probably in public and then I would have thought crying in private. I don't think he cared. We've got so many things that we need to talk to you about. Can we talk about we had Alan Cumming on the programme last week and his new show that he is performing around the country is called Alan Cumming is not acting his age. And it's a kind of diatribe, putting the hand up to, you know, people who want him to stay young, want him to look young. He's rather enjoying just, you know, growing old disgracefully. But he did talk about the pressure of cosmetic surgery and having to look young to get the parts.

And I suppose we're always a bit surprised, more surprised when a man talks about that than a woman. I think we imagine that the pressure is definitely there for female actresses and I wonder whether or not you have a strong view on that yourself. It does sound surprising that it's a male problem. And of course, yes, it has been historically that women are supposed to look lovely and smooth. And I was once given a cream by a makeup designer who said i think this cream would be really lovely for you i said oh

i love a freebie so i took that home and i thought oh that's how brilliant how lovely that she's gone this is what you need but it's only until sort of much later in the series that i read very tiny tiny writing for prematurely aging skin and um i was sort of it made in the series that I read, very tiny, tiny writing for prematurely ageing skin. And I was sort of, it made me laugh and I was taken aback. It was just very sweet, under the radar way of saying, I think you might need some help. Yeah, it's passive aggressive, that gift, isn't it? Very.

For prematurely ageing skin, in brackets, tiny writing, can't say. So it was at that point that I thought, oh, wow. So, oh, that's a thing. And I think there may be a belligerent, brought up in Kilburn kind of element of me that went, well, and I'm not doing it. Yeah. But we're so influenced, aren't we, by what we see on the screen. And we've got no way as viewers of knowing if something's been enhanced or if somebody has had surgery or anything like that and actually you know some of that is rather crucifying our young people

isn't it it's creating uh even more of a high bar that is just unachievable it's just you know there are people lying with their faces you can't tell they're lying because they can't move but do you find it frustrating because you must know that you go up against actresses who've had loads of work done. Does it feel like they're slightly not telling the truth? Listen, I know that there are all sorts of computer programmes out there that can do whatever they want to once you've filmed and they can take it away and do what they want to,

if they want to, right? I don't have any authority over that. I mean, yes, we could put it as a rider. I can't be bothered with the fight. If they want to do it, fair enough. Listen, I look the way I look, and my daughter kept shouting at me when I was much... when she was much younger, and she would say,

Mummy, you're not liney, you're laughy. Oh. And, you know, my face, you're laughy. Oh, that's lovely. And, you know, my face has got lots of lines on it because I laugh a lot and I'm quite expressive with my face. And also what I didn't say to my daughter is because I've cried a lot as well in the night. And I'm on my own. I don't know why I'm laughing.

I know. Isn't that funny? The bit where I really become vulnerable in front of you is when you laugh. We laugh, yes. We're both extremely sorry The bit where I really become vulnerable in front of you is when you laugh. We laugh. Yes, I know. We're both extremely sorry about that. I'm very sorry.

Yeah, yes. So, you know, I think my face tells a story of what my life has been like. I mean, yes, there's a pressure. I really feel for the young people that there is a pressure on conformity and, you know, not getting old. But I think it's also about our ingrained terror of getting old, which is an ingrained terror of dying. You know, the older I look, the closer I am to my departure. And, you know, that's a real fear. But then maybe we should

just be really engaging with what it is to be alive, to live well, but and also to die well. You know, looking at my old face, maybe it's me going, yeah, look, I'm dying really well. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely beautiful. So. And so are you. Well, that's not strictly true. And we'll take a short break. I mean, why do you do that? I mean, take a short break. We'll come back with a reality. I can ask my archers question. with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Can we talk about Friday Night Dinner?

Because you've made papers. Because you were asked in a previous interview, and obviously we would have got to this question ourselves first, about the nature of casting. Because Friday Night Dinner, for people who didn't see it, was a sitcom that ran for, was it nearly 10 years?

It was, yeah, it was over 11 years. Yes. And you were the mum. Mum and dad, two boys, focused around Friday Night Dinner in a Jewish family in, I've always assumed, North London. You played Jackie Goodman, the mum, absolutely brilliantly. Thank you.

You have Jewish ancestry, but you wouldn't identify yourself as being Jewish. And I know that you've now got thoughts about that casting that perhaps you didn't have at the time. Is that a fair summation? I did have thoughts at the time and spoke to Robert Popper, the writer, about it. My concern of me being non-Jewish playing a Jewish woman and my real antipathy to stereotype.

I wanted to be very careful about how to portray her. And Robert Popper, who is Jewish and is writing about his family environment and his growing up in a culturally secular, maybe Jewish home, although observant in some ways, he said, don't worry. I'm the writer. I know what I can hear. I'm writing a kind of music of what I hear in that environment. And I'll be there. So I think we'll be okay. So he reassured me. I think what's been brought to the front recently is that the conversations that we're having now about casting and about diversity and about representation

and about access are very strong, and they're very different to what they were like in the 2000s when we started thinking about the show. So I think we would just have a different approach now to say, is it appropriate for me to be playing now? Then it was OK, that was the environment. But I did make sure. Yeah.

If you were offered exactly the same part now, would you even have the conversation, though? Would you walk away from it? I don't know interesting is there also a very valid argument that if you only cast people who have a first person experience of the character that they're playing you can also end up alienating might be too strong a word but putting a barrier between you and the audience who think well that's not my experience I am only watching people with a very different experience

the actor can sometimes be that perfect kind of bridge into something isn't that part of the reason why you're doing it I think so I think it's you know it's about the artistry you know it is a craft about how you um inhabit a character but i do really appreciate and uh accept those arguments about um those positions of power you know if you've if you've historically been in a position of power and then you're playing somebody from an oppressed group i think you need to be very thoughtful about what you step into and what you engage with. You know, I'm not from the East End of London, but I'm playing Cecilia Logan in Sexy Beast, who is.

So I'm probably the closest in the cast, geographically, to Mile End, having grown up in Kilburn. Does that mean that I shouldn't be there? Because, you know, I'm not the right postcode? I think there are still areas where we can say, yeah, no, we can lean into that. Yeah. But to be just very conscious. And does comedy allow you to do something different too? Jane and I have often had this conversation about how we felt a little bit offended by quite a lot of male comedy where men are impersonating women.

Little Britain is a familiar refrain for us. My particular bête noire. Sometimes. And, you know, the argument that comes back from comedians is that's their way of inviting everybody in. But I don't know whether that works. Do you think of comedy as allowing slightly different kind of boundaries that's

interesting question i don't know if i have an answer for that i think um i think people are changing their minds about things isn't that great though that we are in in times now where people are going oh well i thought i knew what i thought about that and now i'm, my position is shifting on that. I think men are beginning to realise that being in a position of power and playing a person, a woman, from an oppressed group historically, there are ramifications, there are consequences of that. I think there is an awareness growing for that.

However, of course, you know, I played a male character at National Theatre in Twelfth Night when I was the first female actor to play Malvolio. So I'm sure that they would hold that up and say, but hang on a minute, you've just done it. But I think then we're in different times where, you know, there are different groups holding power. And we need to shift those around. Archer's time. Do you like playing Debbie in The Archers? She was so keen.

That question fired out of your face. Do you like playing Debbie in The Archers? For people who don't listen to The Archers, it doesn't matter. Who's Debbie? It doesn't matter. People who do listen will know interesting i mean at the moment people who do listen will understand that you're very busy farming in hungary and you occasionally swoop back to ambridge and make a usually a pretty telling intervention which often involves your father brian, because you are the only one. Well, he's actually getting a bit nicer in his dotage, isn't he, old Brian?

Soft old marshmallow. Well, ish. But do you like doing it? That job came along at just the right time. When I was very new into the business, I'd been an actor for a year. Right. And I went for an audition and i didn't

know what a radio studio was i didn't know what radio technique was i happened to get it thinking that i was going to be in the show for maybe six weeks here we are 30 more years later so i'm so grateful that that came along and i can bob back in every now and then uh and see actors you know to have that sort of continuity in your life it's just it's just wonderful I am a bit of a nerd for this do you actually physically go there or do you just to Hungary or no no no no even I know you don't go to Hungary yeah do you go to Birmingham where I gather they meet in a room to pretend they're on a farm in Borsetshire. You are shattering dreams, lady.

I know. Or do you just ping your lines off on a Zoom or something? Well, I mean, that's rude. Sorry. I do go with all the other actors to Birmingham to record. Right. Except during lockdown when we did it in cupboards with duvets around us. Right.

So, yes, I do go there and it's um it's it's lovely to be with them there's no chance that you're going to go back permanently to ambridge well i came uh because brian's on his own i know kate's moved in with him but we don't know how long he does have a lot of children yeah okay doesn't he he's been a rogue in his time there's someone will give him a hard time which is great and you said that you would like a general knowledge question

about the archers so I have just got when they tried to have a revamp of the bull in Ambridge to try and make it more modern

what did they change its name to the bullocks right you failed and I am never watching anything with Tamsin Gregg

in it again I don't know what did they try to change it to the bee at Ambridge the bee oh that's quite good because it's like

I'd go to the bee at Ambridge but nobody did so they changed it back to the bull but was it a gastropub to have nice fat triple cooked chips

they do do food but I don't or just honey based products messy bee did they have their own hives yes I know people just came out in hives I think the archers bring this fee them in hives? Yes, I know. Well, do people just came out in hives?

I think the archers bring this fee out in hives, which is why I'm not normally allowed to talk about it. Yeah, with the toilet, say, ladies, and then manuka. Get it? Right enough. I want there to be a honey that's called womanuka. That's a very good idea, Brandon. We'll work on it. Sexy Beast is out on Thursday on Paramount+.

And you never like my pun jokes, do you? You always pull scorn on them. I thought Manuka was great and Tamsin's woman-uka. It's terrific. I was a bit jealous of the two of you bonding over your gags. I think that's what it was. I mean, I've got my own showbiz pals anyway, so it doesn't really matter to me anymore.

I'm not sure I'll be in tomorrow because you know other offers have come my way. Let's put it that way. Right. So that's a long goodbye. In the meantime I'm going home to a fried egg.

Maybe my showbiz life will come back. Do you think that there are many ex-leaders of the Labour Party who would want to step into my shoes and do a podcast with you where you talk largely

about a Vanti West ghost and placentas? There are a few to choose from. I think I haven't heard enough from Tony Blair recently. Oh God, I think. I might give Tony a call. I sat next to him

once at dinner. I've already told you that's me. Yes! You have! Bye! Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run. Or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know ladies don't get that. A lady listener.

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