Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Retinue of Flunkies (with Gino D'Acampo)

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

It's Fi's last day before she's off a week and emotions are high! Before she jets off to East London, they discuss vaping, owning your urges and Freemasonry.Plus, Celebrity chef Gino D'Acampo joins Fi to campaign for Food Waste Action week.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Whereabouts in the wet and windy wilds of West Yorkshire are the olive groves from whence these came? This is the problem. I do wonder myself. Always be on your guard in a farm shop. Somehow we've staggered to the end of what passes of our 4-hour working week. Congratulations to us. I mean me, really.

Because I've been to the theatre again and I deserve a special medal for doing that. But I was really worried last night because we were doing something in this... Was it in this studio or in a different studio? I'm not going to interject. I'll just be honest. We were doing an interview and not only did I desperately... in this? Was it in this studio or in a different studio? I'm not going to interject. I'll just be honest. To let you bobble on. We were doing an interview and not only did I desperately need the loo,

I needed to time my exit from the building to make sure I had time before the theatre to get to McDonald's, which I'm not proud of, but I do do it before the theatre because I don't find it possible to sit through a performance without having something in my tummy. I just can't do it. I can't focus.

All my attention is then just on how hungry I am. And I like to immerse myself in the theatrical experience. But you'll be glad. I know you'll be relieved to hear. I nearly texted you last night to tell you not to worry because I did get a quarter pounder with cheese down me before the show. OK, that's very good to know, because obviously I was spending most of my evening... I don't think you'll have slept.

..wondering whether or not Jane had had a decent meal. I did another couple of episodes of The Gone last night. Oh, yes, and you're way ahead of me now. Well, because... So I can't go out during the week at all, really, or not until late. No. Because we've got the teenagers with both sets of exams this year.

Oh, blimey. And they start in, is it May, mid-May? So the stress is crackling through us. Yes. But I did get in from after having things to eat and watched a couple of episodes. It's really dark, Jane. It's really dark.

Oh, does it get much darker then? Well, there's a moment of redemption when, you know, somebody isn't dead, but otherwise quite a lot of people are. And I did think by the end of it, I thought, God, what am I so intrigued by? I mean, you're right about the setting. So it's set in New Zealand and it's very beautiful to watch, but it's definitely in a minor key.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pursue it till the end. And I'm still worried about the goats. So I might crack into Helen McCrory's Fearless, which was another recommendation from one of our listeners. Can I just share with you something from Liz, who's usually in Coventry, though currently in Enfield. And we do like a specific geographical location. I want to know where you've come from.

I want to know where you are. And quite often I I want to know where you've come from. I want to know where you are. And quite often I'd like to know where you've been. And it's definitely a story there, usually in Coventry, currently in Enfield. But this is because Liz was listening to the programme yesterday. When are we on air, Jane? Oh, three o'clock till five on Times Radio. You can listen for absolutely no financial outlay at all

via the Times Radio app. And we do current affairs and news, don't we? We do. And we give it some welly. Oh, yeah. We're ladies. We're even allowed opinions. Not too many of them, but we sort of sprinkle them.

A little bit like a teenager applying chilli flakes to their omelette. We sprinkle the opinions throughout the couple of hours. We do. And sometimes things get our backs up, don't they? Not often in my case. And it's very nice to be at a radio station where you're allowed to give it some wellies. So this one comes from Liz who said,

I've just overheard a conversation and I thought I must tell Jane and Fi. Whenever Fi interviews the representative from the vape industry, I'm cheering her along from the sidelines, terrified by the grip that vapes have on our teenagers. And we have had quite a few ding-dongs with the representatives of the vaping industry because, and I think it's fair to say that you're included in this too, we can't understand the promotion of something that really is causing so much harm to so many young people. I mean, the bottom line is, if you don't want to target young people

who've never smoked tobacco, why have all these stupid flavours? Yeah, so that's the thing. And we totally get the argument about vaping being great if you're trying to give up smoking. Yeah, that's different. That's fine. But you could get that on prescription if you needed it.

But definitely it's harming the young ones. And this is what Liz wants to point out because she was walking behind three school boys about 12 years old. Boy one. Hey, you know, George. Boy two. He vapes. Boy three. Oh, breathe air. Boy two. His lungs are going to explode. Boy one laughing. Yes, it's going to make all the veins in his lungs explode. Boy two, yes, let's watch his lungs explode. Obviously, says Liz, the public health message may have got a little bit lost in translation and I was a bit perturbed by the glee with which they considered their fellow students suffering with exploding lungs. However, they had clearly got the message that vaping is harmful.

I just hope they don't let peer pressure dissuade them otherwise when they get to the tricky ages of 14 to 15 years. Long may the public health message triumph. And I think there are two points there, aren't there? One, that they're laughing about it because it's kind of funny that someone's going to make their lungs explode.

That has happened to young people. And also the huge problem is because it is a nicotine product you're just addicted and we don't yet know what a lifetime of vaping is going to do to people so we'll carry on having the ding dongs liz and it's lovely to hear from you what i know this this isn't i'm not i'm trying to out myself as deeply pious or anything, but because I've never smoked, what is a nicotine hit? What does it do? That's such a good question.

You think that it is kind of jump-starting your brain. So the receptors in your brain get used to a hit of nicotine and they kind of go poof, like if if you're going to uh kind of visualize it it's like a bit of a bright light going on and that's the thing that you're constantly chasing it's a form of intellectual energy well i mean it's definitely not intellectual but but it's definitely a receptor thing so in the same way that you know any other physical sensation might be pleasing to you if you get into a warm bath you associate a warm bath with pleasure comfort yeah and very quickly with nicotine you associate a nicotine hit with a buzz okay so it just becomes and it's not similar

to how i feel after it's a glass and a half of fizz, when I think I'm truly, really funny and sparkling. Well, you are. And a little bit bubbly. You are, absolutely. And then by the end of the second glass, you can't get up. We have to leave you sitting there. Yes, that's the problem. But it's not the same, is it?

Not quite. It doesn't sound the same. No, I think it's much more of a jolt. Okay, a jolt. Okay, that's a good way to describe it. This is from a listener. We don't need to mention the name here, but every morning I listen to your wonderful podcast on my dog walk.

And every morning I think I'm going to email these two. And today I cannot suppress the urge. Listen, on this podcast, we're all about owning your urges. Yeah, don't suppress your urges. No, never bother. Your discussion about universities touched a nerve. Two of my children have been to uni. No, never bother. Your discussion about universities touched a nerve. Two of my children have been to uni, one is still there, and it's always annoyed me that

the system is rigged, I think quite unfairly. My eldest went to a very prestigious uni and did a humanities degree, which has led to a career which she loves but doesn't pay well. She does earn enough to make student loan repayments though, and whilst I don't object to this principle, enough to make student loan repayments though and whilst I don't object to this principle I know other people who took less well-regarded courses at less well-regarded institutions and have gone on to lower paid jobs and therefore do not pay their loans back at all. This is surely a bad investment for the country. Gosh it's a complicated one isn't it? My younger daughter is studying a five-year long vocational course and will be pretty much guaranteed a well-paid job at the end. She started in September of 2020, so is one of the COVID cohort. She was fortunate that her course had a strong practical side,

which did continue. Not perfect, but they tried. But the endless Zoom lectures were very challenging. It was a terrible time for students and some should feel quite rightly angry about the lack of support and content they got while still paying the full amount. I mean, I do think that is a very good point. I think for those students who are now, well, lumbered, but that sounds judgmental anyway, lumbered with paying back the student loan, not all of them will have had a sensational university experience at all. all of them will have had a sensational university experience at all. So, yeah, interesting. I mean, I still don't know what the right way is to fund university education. Just don't have any ideas at all.

We'd welcome more emails there. And thank you, by the way, to the people who've spilt the beans about the Freemasons. We've got a few of these coming up. These are delicious. This one comes in from Penny. My husband is a Freemason and I've been the guest of honour at a ladies' night.

Ladies' night. Come on, the guy. penny my husband is a freemason and i've been the guest of honor at a ladies ladies come on the guy do i do i sound like a dj yeah excellent yeah called tina parked outside could you move it please they're held annually and the wife of the master is always the guest of honor there is a dinner speeches and entertainment usually the master asks a close Masonic friend to give a speech praising his lady, usually his wife. Imagine if it wasn't his current mistress. Oh dear, my husband had asked his friend when he bumped into him in an M&S food hall. He started his speech by saying, this is no ordinary speech, this is an M&S inspired speech.

Oh, very, now listen, very clever. Now, listen, good line. Not sure the majority of those present actually got the inference. My husband was one of the younger masons in this particular lodge. He was 58 at the time. All wives and partners are referred to as my good lady, which I found very condescending. There are now ladies' lodges,

and female numbers are increasing faster than male numbers, Jane. As far as I know, though, says Penny, there aren't any mixed lodges. And Penny ends the email, and thank you for all of this information. Not only do they have a secret handshake, there are also phrases that they use when meeting someone new that they think may be a Mason. Well, like what?

Good evening, officer. I don't know. I don't know. I really, really, really want to know more. I'm afraid I most definitely do as well. Sue has a slightly different take because she says, I've been in the US for way too long, but I'm stuck here now as I've got grandchildren.

But I do listen to your podcast every night. And says that you we keep her pilot light on as well so I love this idea that we're keepers of the pilot light on and I love the idea Sue that you're somehow more connected to the UK because you can listen to us so keep listening and thank you for your dedication I've got a fascination for information about Freemasons she says as my grandad was one. But he was a true Mason. He loved to take us kids on walks through cemeteries in London and show us his work. I used to scour the headstones as we walked, looking for children's graves. You sort of do have that tendency, don't you,

when you're younger to... I suppose it's just one of those things, it's natural. When Nan and Grandad got to their 50th anniversary, they were invited to tour the houses of parliament and i think they may have had a telegram from elizabeth ii but not a hundred hundred percent sure but in the telegraph there was some kind of special message describing my grandfather as a monumental mason a description i had never heard before i know we went to hampton court palace a few times on some kind of special pass.

He'd done some work there and at Number 10. Fast forward to a meeting with a French real estate agent in the Caribbean who'd worked wonders with his connections. When we shook hands, yeah, he did shake my hand, I experienced for the first time what I guessed was a Masonic handshake. But what was it? What was it, Sue? So is the reason why we don't know this

and people are reluctant to tell us exact phrases and stuff like that because actually you do go through that ceremony where presumably you promise that it's all incredibly secret and you must never tell two gobby women on a podcast? But, yeah, I think I I think, I don't know because, I mean, there's a lot of sort of rolling up, there is genuine rolling up of trouser legs.

There's a quasi-religious element, isn't there? Yeah, they wear aprons, don't they, to do all of this. Yeah, I mean, you can see, by the way, all this regalia is on display at that place in Covent Garden. Yeah, which you can just walk into. And it's just really weird. It's just really weird.

Well, maybe that's our next outside broadcast. We do Jane and Pete. The Masonic Lodge. A night at the lodge. Ladies' night at the lodge. Oh, we shouldn't be too judgmental. Or should we? I don't know.

I think we need more info. We need to know these phrases and we need to know exactly what you do with the hands don't know i think we need more info we need to know these phrases and we need to know exactly what you do with the handshake yeah and we'll take we'll take comical phrases on that one as well we're also gonna i think we need to start our own off-air handshake we do what do you remember don't tell anyone in the other place there was a there was a fortunately sign wasn't there that people were doing because this was during the lockdown lots of people were out and about walking and yeah and and some of our lovely devoted listeners did create a kind of f sign that you could use if you saw a middle-aged woman fellow sufferer bobbing around in lycra trying desperately to do their one

hour a day somewhere uh this comes from anonymous and it's about funeral manners and do you know what it said something that's so obvious but i don't think i knew when i was in my mid-20s a close friend of my mum's died and although we were close friends i hadn't been a childhood friend and so didn't know her mum or family or home friends very well at all our friendship had blossomed in london and was very london-centric if you know what i mean anyway when her mum died I wondered if I should go to the funeral but decided it was immensely personal and didn't want to burden her with me asking if I should sorry with me asking if I should go and didn't get an invitation from her anyway. So I sent a card and flowers but then when we went out for one of our dinners and talked about the funeral she said

she wished I'd been there and I felt really awful. We talked it through and she looked really confused and hurt and so when I said that I hadn't been invited and thought it best not to go she said oh no it's not like a wedding where you get an invitation and we managed to have a giggle and to this day which is a good 20 years on we are still such good friends but it's really stayed with me. One of those moments of, if only I could wind the clock back. This wasn't an Irish funeral as discussed on the podcast today. It was an English funeral. But my very English, I don't want to make a fuss manner,

I'll give them space, I'll wait for an invitation, clearly was not what was needed. Anyway, I wanted to share this to give others the courage to just ask their friends if they'd like you at the funeral. Don hesitate don't try and be polite reach out with no expectation but then at least you know what would be the best support for for them um and I think that's such good advice because I think a lot of people make that mistake and think I can't possibly go I'll be gate crashing something that might just be for the family or or, you know, I haven't been sent a formal invitation. But you're so right to say most funerals aren't by invitation only.

No, I mean, I understand everything about that email. I understand our correspondents' reluctance to put herself out there initially. And then regret. And then the regret. Can I say, I think that's a very British email. And I'm sorry it happened but look you're obviously still friends and that's the most

important thing I think I have been to funerals of friends' parents because of a genuine show of respect for people who were

a part of my childhood and adolescence and let's also be honest my sometimes it's just great if you can beef the numbers up a bit but let's just especially when people die at a great age and my i can speak here with with some experience my great aunt died at 101 uh about 11 12 years ago and as a family we were very concerned that nobody would come. And what was so touching was that people did come. And by people, I mean, for example, her newsagent came.

Yeah. And it was so lovely. It's really lovely. I'm really touched by that. You don't always know the connections that other people have with other people. So as a grieving person, when somebody says, oh, you know, so-and-so was really lovely to me, it's so heartening. Do you know what?

I've got an email on exactly that topic, and it's about David Niven. Oh, yes. What are the chances, Jane? It's just incredible. It is, isn't it? This one comes from Paul, who says, these are the few things that I know about David Niven. My uncle Danny was a porter at Heathrow in the 70s and 80s

when they still had such things. He had a few things to say about David Niven. Number one, he always came through the terminal on his own, unlike a lot of famous people who had a retinue of flunkies. I think if I had a band, I'd call it Retinue of Flunkies. I think we're going to start it. And number two, he always engaged the services of a porter to carry his bag, even if all he had was a briefcase.

I love that. So that's a good thing because he was employed yeah somebody would get a tip and yeah okay brilliant he once came through terminal one on his way to a bbc interview and was in a rush forgetting to tip the porter and he realized this when he was on the m40 made the driver turn round went back to the airport found the porter apologized to him profusely and tipped him generously. What a guy. Good to know. And in at number four, when David Niven died, the largest funeral wreath came from the porters at Heathrow and it came with a note saying,

to the finest gentleman who ever walked through these halls, he made a porter feel like a king. Isn't that lovely? That is lovely. Yeah. And I think tipping is a tricky area, isn't it? Because you've got to do it and you really should do it and some amazingly well-off people don't bother.

I don't think it's tricky at all. I think you just do it. You just do it. I feel so badly for all of the delivery drivers and other delivery companies are available because I think that option of giving the rider a tip makes people feel like they're being incredibly generous but actually those guys and girls

should I say females there those males and females are really relying on that money to make it a decent wage We're going to hear more from David Niven, The Moon's a Balloon, after I come back from my holiday,

which is next week, and then you're off on your holiday the week after. Yeah. So are we both using the services of Jane Mulkerran's? Jane Mulkerran's Assistant Operative Podcast Services, Inc. Lovely. Would you mind if I started a little bit of David Nevin with her

or would you like me to save it for you you can start with the other Jane of course that's why I'm asking you

you muppet it's up to you no I'll keep it there you do what you like she said in a slightly

passive aggressive way very very now listen I don't know why you and I are rambling because we've

got some hot totffee as our guest. Okay, so our guest today. Set this up for me, sister. Gino De Campo is a TV chef and a busy man. He's hosted any number of cooking shows, is a regular on ITV with his road trip with his pals Gordon Ramsay and Fred Siria. He's also run restaurants since he was just 21

years old, although his pasta chain, My Pasta Bar, did go into administration two years ago. And that's relevant because it comes up in this interview with recent reports suggesting that money is still owed to former staff creditors and also to the taxman. But Gino was on to talk about Food Waste Awareness Week and his new campaign has been named All the Single Veggies. He told me how that one came about. Well, yes, All the Single Veggies. I think the campaign is a great campaign. All the Single Veggies, thank you to Beyonce

for allowing us to use the song, by the way, which is great. Not an easy task, Fee, I i have to say but we did it so she's she's actually given you permission yes yeah that is amazing caller i took caller to ask permission of course yeah you can give it to the agency until i called her, well, talk me through that. How did that go? Well, first of all, it was quite bizarre to explain to Beyonce that the music would have been matched with fruit and vegetable, i.e. bananas and apples. She couldn't get her head around that. But then when I told her about the campaign, she loved it. So we got it. Okay. That is quite an anecdote to tell your grandchildren, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. But it's a great campaign. I mean, if you talk to anyone, they will all be passionate about not to waste food. You know, this is not one of those campaigns where someone goes and preaches, oh, you need to do this, you need to do that. This is a very easy one. Everybody can help me. That's my point.

And my point is very simple. Choose what you use. Don't go to the supermarket and buy a bag of apples wrapped in plastic. You know, you have no idea what to do with it. Just choose whatever you're going to use. Number one, you're going to waste less money. And number two is not a crime against humanity. You know, there are a lot of people out there

that they are dying right now because they can't eat. And here we are, you know, spending 17 billion pounds of wasting food and throwing out 60,000 tons of food every year. It's crazy. Yeah. How much, though, do you think this is about a really understandable lack of knowledge about cooking, where people, they do need to be kind of chided about what they're buying, but they also need to be helped to understand how you can make a basket of food into several different meals that you never have to throw anything away.

I think, Fi, it's a mixture of two things. There is a mixture, what you said very correctly, is knowledge. Because, of course, for me, as a chef, it's very easy to open the fridge and whatever I've got there, I'm going to make a meal out of it. Do you remember the Ready Steady Cook days? Oh, my goodness. Well, I was a student during the real kind of high points of Ready Steady Cook. So I could probably do it as my mastermind specialist subject, actually.

I really loved it. So you used to watch me and James Martin Ainsley Harriet well I go all the way back to Fern Britain actually but this might be a conversation for another day you go in before me because I did only one year

with Fern as a presenter and then after that was Ainsley if you remember and he was absolutely terrific. Yeah, shows like that clearly helped a lot those days. And maybe it's the right time to bring some shows like that where I or any other chef can inspire people to use leftover. You remember, we used to do dishes with two peppers,

one can of beans and a bit of vanilla seeds. And we used to do dishes with two peppers one can of beans and a bit of vanilla seeds and we used to create wonder so i think maybe something like that definitely will help knowledge as you as you call it but then there is the laziness fee unfortunately yeah we are all i mean we are all guilty of that i'm sure you do the same. I do the same. We all run very busy with our mobile phone in the hand and we just pick up whatever is in front of us. Very much so. And I was thinking about this when I was reading through the press release about the campaign that you're fronting. And I thought, well, actually, one of the problems, and bear with me on this, Wednesday's recycling day where I live in East London, and we are hugely encouraged to compost our food waste.

And I've got very used to thinking that that's okay. I'm kind of being made to feel good about what I throw away because the council is so good at the food waste composting thing. Do you think that's a bit of a problem now? Very good point. I never thought about that. Then, Fi, my question to you is, any reason why you bought the bag of apples

with 10 apples in there, wrapped up in plastic, you only used five. Why did you not just buy five apples? Well, that's a very good question. And there are two answers to that one uh i've i've got in my head that more is better so why can i ask you why just because i just feel that i just feel that it is i mean i've got two teenagers uh who i'm feeding as well gino so i kind of i have a bit of a fear about us running out i have the same i've got two teenagers who I'm feeding as well, Gino. So I kind of, I have a bit of a fear about us running out of food.

I have the same. I've got two teenagers. But, Fi, can I ask you something? Do you know that our children, right? I always say this to everyone. I always say that to my wife because I also have a little girl. She's 12, okay? And sometimes when they get a fist drop, they don't want to eat certain things and all of that. I always say to my wife, look, have you ever considered that our children,

with all the crap that they eat, i.e. all the sugar, crisp, salty and everything like that, I said, do you know that they could easily survive without food for a good three or four days? Even a week. Well, I mean, that would be one way of approaching the teenage appetite. Well, sometimes you need to go to the extreme of thinking because you say to me, the reason why I buy the bag of 10 apples because I've got teenagers and what about if they want an apple? I know that I've got it in the fridge.

Okay, I get that. But how often do you use all the fruit and veg that you that you buy though yeah no that's yeah no that's the problem and and all too often there will be this horrible kind of green slime in bags in my vegetable there you go that's the one where you know it's all just gone horribly wrong and the whole thing has to get chucked out so i actually get that. But it's a thing, isn't it that we are scared of ever having to return to a scarcity way of eating, which actually people of my generation don't know, you know, we have not lived through a war and ration books and all those kinds of things. And, you know, there are an awful lot of people who are experiencing scarcity in this country,

but that's about money, isn't it? I think if you've got money, you know, maybe we are viewing food in far too luxurious a way. Yes, that's, I think that's the main problem. Everything is too easy for us. We can order everything online. We always have a little bit of money in the pocket to go and buy things that we don't need or extra food and all of that. But my point is I'm not going to be here preaching anyone. What I would like to put in people's mind is that if you got the chance to think of me when next you are in a supermarket and think, you know what, do I really need to buy this bag of carrots? Or can I do with one or two carrots? Because unless you've got a plan of what are you going to do with the rest of the carrots,

why are you doing that? You're making the supermarket rich, you're making yourself poorer, and then you've got the problem that you're going to have to waste all this food. It's very true. I will think of you next time I'm in the vegetable aisle, Gino. Thank you. Grazie.

Pick the single, you know, choose what you use. Yes. That is the motto. That is a great motto. Now, Gino, before we let you go, can I ask you a couple of other questions? I was doing some in-depth research before this interview and I came across this fantastic piece from a couple of years ago, which says that you like to only work for six months of the year and that you take the whole of October off where you go and fish and ride your motorbike and look after your vineyard. You say that your wife and kids understand. Is that true? Yes.

I'm actually off to Italy on Friday in two days and I'm coming back about the middle or end of April. I only work six months of the year and the rest of the six months I'm on holiday on the island of Sardinia where I live there. I got my house there as well and out of the six months I will probably spend

three, well, holiday time school holidays. I will spend it with my wife and my kids. Otherwise, I'm pretty much by myself writing books, riding a motorbike, go fishing and all that. Yes, very true. I've been doing this for the last 15 years. What a way to live. I'm so envious. I'm so envious. But can I also ask you a serious question then, Gino, Because there have been some, I mean, they must be very troubling to you, headlines today about the collapse of your restaurant chain and the papers. That is an old story, Fee. It's something that happened before COVID.

And I always say to people, I don't get, I don't really answer to stuff like that, or I don't really get upset about stuff like that. I get upset only in a way where you kind of go, wait a second, do you understand that to be a business person, what I do, unless you have some failures, you will never be successful. The secret worry is, is to make sure that your win are greater than what you lose. Because nobody ever talks about me opening another restaurant again in Manchester. Nobody ever talks about I'm going to open four new restaurants by the end of this year. Nobody talks about it that I employ over 1,000 people currently today. Everybody's very quick to point the finger,

to say, yeah, yeah, but, but, but, you close this, you close that. Guys, in life, unless you try to do something new, you will never be anyone and you will never employ other people. You try some business, they go well and some pieces, they don't go well. As I said, the secret to where it is, to make sure that the one they go well, and some pieces, they don't go well. As I said, the secret

where it is, is to make sure that the one that go well is greater than the one that don't go well. Okay. So, but I suppose the only question that we as journalists do want to always ask of business people is just about the people who are left behind. You know, so if you do have former staff who aren't paid, all of this happened to Jamie Oliver too, didn't it? At that point, you need to be careful not to believe everything that you read. Okay. You said journalist, and I appreciate the fact that you're a journalist because you seem very sensible in your question and everything else.

But how many journalists are out there most of them are the no journalist again the journalist used to be 25 years ago when i started this business in television and all of that nowadays they're nothing more than column filler so they pick up an old story they don't do any researches. They just throw numbers like that and they're waiting for anyone to say anything. I don't really buy into that. I'm not wanting that we all learned that you should never believe everything that you read. Well, no, that is very true.

But then I just wonder why those headlines are around today. I have no idea why they're around today. Considering that, as I said, I've just opened a restaurant in Manchester last week, employed 45 new people in my new restaurant. You would think that they should encourage me to say, Gino, come on, man. You know, keep going. Keep going. Don't worry about the failing one.

Just keep going because the more you go and the more this economy is going to get better. You employ people, you open a new restaurant, but instead of, they always choose the negative thing. Why they do it, Fee, that is a question that you need to ask whoever wrote the article. No, no, no. I ain't going to entertain that. That's what I mean.

Fair enough, fair enough. Well, thank you. Life is already full of negative things, Fi. We should celebrate positivity. We should celebrate people's achievements. We should acknowledge people failing, but not pointing the finger like that. That is not a very nice way to do it.

And I don't buy into stuff like that. Well, but thank you for answering my questions honestly i hugely appreciate it and i will absolutely the only reason why i answered to your question because i promised myself anyone would ask me a question like that i would put the phone down but the only reason why i did that because you did it in a very beautiful elegant way you didn't point the finger at me. You just asked me a question that you wanted to ask me. And that's the reason why you got the answer.

And I really appreciate that. Well, I appreciate you answering it. Gosh, this is a very unexpected interview actually now. No, that's cool. That's cool. That's really, it's very kind of you to say all of that, but I appreciate your answers. So I am going to think of you next time I'm in the vegetable aisle

I'm going to buy a few carrots I am and anybody listening to this interview will do the same thing so have a lovely day Gino and thank you very much indeed I'm going to send a very big kiss to all your listeners that was Fiona tackling Gino De Campo there

can I ask is his name actually Gino De Campo there. Can I ask, is his name actually Gino De Campo or is it like Gene Camp? Oh, no, he's Gino De Campo. Oh, he really is. It's not like Anton Dubek. No, so he was Tony Beak, wasn't he? No, but it's not that.

It's not Gene Camp, it's Gino De Campo. Well, did you like him at the end of that? Well, yes, I did. I just didn't really really i was surprised that he was nice about a question that he clearly didn't want to answer at all i think he liked the cut of your journalistic jib didn't he yeah and and i kind of get his point why not celebrate the thing that you've managed to do after something's gone tits up i completely agree with that um but i think also you know you you're always just trying to

think of the individual, aren't you, who might have been not so well off after a business has gone belly up. And Jamie Oliver had exactly the same kind of stuff thrown at him. So a couple of his restaurant chains had not been successful. And the inference in the reporting of those things was always why can't he just pay everybody himself? You know, he's a wealthy man. And I do understand that businesses don't always work like that. But, you know, we got there in the end. All questions were answered. And, yes, I mean, he's a charismatic man, Gino De Campo.

So I felt the charisma through Zoom. Yeah. I can honestly say, as a televisual offering, I don't think there's anything I'd be less likely to watch than Gino De Campo, who are the other two he goes off on his motorbike with. Well, it's Gordon Ramsay and Fred Siriu. Yeah.

You cannot be Siriu. I'm most definitely washing my hair that night, that's all. OK. Can we just do a tiny email from Glyn, who says, sorry, you may again never apologise. No. I'm emailing as I listen, and you've just mentioned farm shops. And Glyn just wanted to say,

our local farm shop sells vastly overpriced jars of olives, which always has me pondering whereabouts in the wet and windy wilds of West Yorkshire are the olive groves from whence these came. This is the problem. I do wonder myself. Always be on your guard in a farm shop so there are some delicatessens in east london jane where they sell you know amazing meat you know this that's

venison well you know cut from the the the truffle hunting pigs of you know somewhere and on the front uh they say, sliced in Hackney. Oh, well, that... That definitely justifies its place in a North London deli, doesn't it? What does that add to anything? I think the location of where the slicing occurs is absolutely wonderful. Stirred in Bedford. Right, OK, we could go on. of where the slicing occurs is absolutely wonderful. Stirred in Bedford.

Right, OK, we could go on. Let's not, no. Broiled in Bridport. I mean, there's any number of different things. OK, we're still lacking a bit of information about the Freemasons. I think what we need to do is set up our own lodge, which we'll do when we've both had our individual Easter breaks and we can call it

something we can have our own rules and possibly our own aprons i mean why not we're looking for merchandise ideas that could be a winner we've got here a tea towel email uh from sylvia uh i've got a huge collection of tea towels she boasts collected over a long marriage that's also a boast which i received from older female relatives with a distinct lack of imagination my mother-in-law was certainly a devotee of the local national trust shop my favorite one though commemorates the 1986 marriage of prince andrew and sarah ferguson i always chuckle that that tea towel lasted far longer than the marriage itself. Well, of course, Sylvia. They are the least unhappy divorced royal couple, aren't they? I mean, I'm not talking about how they actually feel,

but about their... They are on very good terms. What a category. Niche. They're on excellent terms. Perhaps there should be a tea towel commemorating the tremendously happy divorce of the not especially respected Prince Andrew.

I think that's a great idea. But also a tea towel that just has a list. Most unhappy marriages in the royal family. With their... Oh, no, that's very... No, Phoebe, you're being horrible. Right, OK. Or is she?

Is she perhaps on to something? Right, have a lovely mini break. And I know you'll miss all the reporting of who's been to a farm shop and whether or not they're real and have they been kidnapped by aliens and when will we know the truth. But I'm counting on you, Jane, to be able to inform me of all of these things. Oh, don't you worry. If I feel you're not listening, because I can sense it, I'll just ring you.

Right, okay. Have a good week. Yes, and have a good week yourself, and happy Easter, everybody. Yes. Yes, I had to buy my own egg today. Six quid. Dreadful, isn't it? Right.

Jane and Fee at Times.radio. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five.

You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.

Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know ladies don't do that. Money to bank. I know, ladies. The lady listener. I know, sorry.