Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Rod Stewart or shortbread? (with Gina Miller)

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Are sitting or standing comfortably? Good, then let's begin... Jane and Fi chat batteries in 2024, Rod Stewart and soap dishes. Plus, businesswoman Gina Miller discusses tackling financial domestic abuse and educating women on investing. Get your suggestions in for the next book club pick! If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

He's probably less Scottish than I am. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Okay. Wee-jane. Don't call me that. our award-winning journalism for just a pound for four months when you sign up to a digital subscription. With access across all your devices you can stay well informed on global politics, sport, culture, style and more. Don't miss out, visit thetimes.com black friday to claim your offer today. 18 plus new customers only offer ends 5pm December the 3rd, T's and C's apply.

Plus new customers only. Offer ends 5pm December 3rd. T's and C's apply. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well it's crossed my mind. Tell me a bit more about it. Well with Norwegian Cruise Line you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles, unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go local shore excursions as well as an immersive program of onboard experiences. I can't lie I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship. Well Jane, their fleet has so many unique bars, lounges and restaurants. They also have fantastic entertainment, shows, facilities on board.

You wouldn't be short of things to do. Plan ahead to discover your dream Europe 2025 cruise. It's certainly one way to beat the winter blues. Experience more at sea with Norwegian Cruise Life. For more information call 0333 222 6513, contact your travel agent or for your pet. How about a new collar for Nancy? Well, and some sparkly pieces to wear to all those festive get-togethers. Well, quite. They even do money too, Jane. They really do have it all.

At John Lewis Money, in-house experts and trusted partners work together to offer money products for real life. From the John Lewis Partnership credit card to insurance and travel money, they can help you think outside the bank. To find out more, search John Lewis Partnership credit card. That's the spirit. Credit subject to status, 18 plus years, UK residents, TNCs apply. John Lewis PLC is a credit broker. New Day Limited is the lender. We're talking about the difference between standing up and sitting down. It's gone, this is because? So there is just one colleague in our on-air fraternity who seems to enjoy doing a show

standing up, but you and I have never done standing up shows. But there's a radio station here in London, commercial radio station, where every DJ has to do a stand up show because they simply move the height of the desks and the logic was that gives the show more energy. Oh yeah. Well why don't, perhaps one of us could try it this afternoon. No, I don't want to do that. No, I don't want to do it either, so that's difficult. We won't, but I don't think anybody would notice the difference in our energy levels. Well that's the thing, that's the thing. Can you hear when your presenter is standing up

or sitting down? Well, because in TV news they relatively recently began walking around and doing the standing up news, didn't they? I think it's problematic. Yeah, I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference. No, and also I think there are some forms of news that are just better delivered from behind a desk with absolutely no wall of thought behind them or whatever they wanted to call it. And it was, I think, the new BBC News at 10 set that was built was deliberately to catch people out. I mean it had a steppy up a bit.

Oh so adding a bit of jeopardy. Yeah. Would the person fall over? Yeah. I think someone was having a laugh. I might start tuning in if I think somebody might take a tumble. Actually it's a very unpleasant side of my personality isn't it? Certainly.

And usually you keep it so well. Oh gosh. Do I? I'm not sure. Save it for the office., pride did come before a fall because the other day I didn't quite fall over but I very nearly did. You know when the surfaces are quite slippy on the underground and I had heels on and I was just walking a little bit too briskly and I didn't fall over but I so nearly did and I saved myself

by doing a kind of tippy tippy tippy kind of reaction really sort of on my tiptoes to stop myself tumbling over. Oh that's good. No I looked an absolute pratt. I know but better than having a proper fall. I guess so. One of my friends did fall over in Oxford on Sunday when we were out for lunch but we recovered her. Okay. She's a very fit woman normally. I wouldn't say I was middle-aged but I came back from that trip with three three packets of napkins and a soap dish. Why? What were they gifts? I just fancied them. I see, you bought them.

I didn't steal them. You bought them? Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't think you were allowed to buy soap dishes. I thought they had to be gifted. Well, I suddenly saw one and I really fancied it. Actually, it's a bit of a painter's soap dish. It looks okay, but a lot of water collects in the dish. Anyway, we still don't know what rinsed is.

No, and also we still don't know why there are globules of water on top of where but nothing else in your dishwasher. But we have had one email at least just saying that yesterday's podcast was a triumph because it really did range far and wide. This one comes in from Emily who says exactly that. I wanted to say how brilliant yesterday's podcast was. I went from longing to know what Rinse does and agreeing with you about the Tupperware coming out with drips onto marvelling at General Petraeus's sheer brilliance and knowledge

and sanguine analysis. Much needed in this climate of everything shit that seems to have descended on the world recently. Loved it. Thank you. I completely agree with you, Emily. I really loved, loved, loved talking to David Petraeus because he really knows shit and Emily's used that word so I'm now going to use it too. And I found it really heartening, Jane. I mean, he just said such logical things when I think we are just hearing so many burps of doom from people and, you know, the stairway to hell nonsense that has been thrown at us and hell in a handcart and news is gripped

by this dark fervour at the moment, isn't it? And he was really very sanguine. Great word to use. Well, I think your first question to him was, are we on the cusp of World War Three? And he said, no. But we do need, and of course we do need to be aware and watchful. No, very much so. I mean, General David Patrice will never know that he was part of a podcast that also featured spirited discussions about a range of other topics. Well, I like to think that somebody will have told him.

I wonder whether he's a domestic man. There was a kitchen in the background. It's quite tidy. The thing that I will remember from that interview is the fact that David Petraeus is not a prepper so if he's not prepped then I think we're all right. Yes and I was alarmed to hear that because I only ordered some extra batteries from my battery-powered radio before the interview with David Petraeus yesterday. Before I left the house yesterday morning, I suddenly felt compelled to check my store of candles, my matches, and I ordered more batteries from my only battery-operated radio.

And I don't know whether it's just me, I have got a battery-operated radio, which I keep in the shower room, and it's not of great quality and I can't seem to find a reliable battery operated radio these days. Is it is it that they're just not made that way but there isn't much of a demand for them? What do you mean by reliable? Well it just the batteries never seem to last and I remember back in the day that transistor radios they used to go on forever on their batteries. Where are you buying your batteries from? Well, this is a very reputable brand I've just ordered.

No, no, but it can be a reputable brand. But where are you buying it? Are you buying it from a corner shop or from a well stocked supermarket? Neither in this case, you know, from that well known site that... Oh, okay. Yeah. What have I done wrong? Well, I think... So I read somewhere that batteries are a good scam during the rounds at the moment. Okay, dodgy batteries.

Yes, or just batteries that actually are past their sell-by date which are being flogged all over the place. Because obviously if you left a battery on the shelf without using it, it would still deplete after a while. So I've always thought there wasn't very much difference between a fresh battery or actually a battery brand. I know the advertising was very effective with the bunny and all. But actually, I think if you do buy top of the range, supermarket based batteries, then it might last longer.

Because you're right I've got a battery operated radio next to my bed I haven't had to change the batteries for about god easily two years. Flipping it. Yeah. Okay that and you listen to the radio a lot as I do. I do yeah. That's really weird. What am I doing wrong or is it just the brand of wow I tell you what. How long are your batteries lasting? Contact off air. Well Thomas usually gives us a very good explainer the brand of, how long are your batteries lasting? Contact, or fail? Thomas usually gives us a very good explainer, so we might set Thomas on batteries, where are we at with them in 2024?

And who's great idea was it to link, I don't know, the excellence of a battery with rabbits? Yeah, it was. Well, I mean, the oddest advertising combination of all time has to be the meerkats, which are one of the most successful campaigns ever. But who sat in a room? I'd love to be at that initial presentation where they go, right, financial services, OK, mainly insurance. Really boring. So, we've got two meerkats. I know, very funny.

Because it's just, it's, I mean it's part of our language isn't it? Oh yeah, absolutely. Compared to the meerkat. But you know, there's, the puppies and wiping your bum are still forever linked. That's very true. And it's a bit odd isn't it when you actually, I mean you don't normally give that much headspace to analysing why that works, but it appears to. Look, I just want to bring in someone who's supporting Meefee, because it doesn't happen

very often. It's Edward. I'm with Jane's previous campaign against you guys as a salutation or greeting. Thank you, Edward. This is so me. I could have written this, but I'm not as clever as Edward. I am not in a West End musical, nor am I waiting for a seat in a Tallahassee diner. And I would prefer to be nation neutral rather than American right now. I feel similarly offended when colleagues or otherwise address me as buddle buddy and I'm inclined to advise them that the greeting is reserved for policemen and members of the emergency services. It's ghastly but there we are. My mentors in the theatre industry advise that darling was the best and meant you didn't struggle to remember

a name but always retained charm and civility among both strangers and friends. It goes on to say many years ago 1987 I was offered a job as a male secretary on the understanding that I would learn to type at a secretarial college up to 70 words per minute. Would that be right? Yeah. I did and I enjoyed a heady month in South Malton Street as the only man in the building. Oh. South Malton. So where is that?

South Malton Street. So it's off Oxford Street, isn't it? Right. Just by Bond Street Tube station. Oh, is it? Okay. Yes. And it was famous for having Browns, the very, very upmarket clothes store in it.

It's right, yeah, in 1987 that would have been one of the best places in London to be fashionable in. Wow, Edward, what a life you seem to have led. Yeah. Fantastic. I do love that though. I am not waiting for a seat in a Tallahassee diner. That's exactly what I think, Edward. Okay. I am not in that position.

Now I apologise to the people who wanted a better reach on the major and minor key discussion. So this comes in from Kate. C major is the title of the email. Not an army general, but the major key explains Kate, the easy key. A major is quite tricky but Kate signs off saying love you long time keep up the good work. So C major is the very easy one without too many sharps and flats in it. I'm sorry can you define easy? Well if you're playing on the piano you haven't got you haven't got the black keys to maneuver around and C major is just a very simple if you're going to do your Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do you could start at C and just go all the way up on the and C major is just a very simple... if you're going to do your Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do

you could start at C and just go all the way up on the white keys, it's very simple. So in the major key it would sound bouncy and nice. There's no half tone. Okay, so as right, I think I'm understanding some of this, as we approach the festive season, Carols, do they fit a particular pattern? Oh I think Carols are always in a major key. Is in the bleak midwinter in a minor key? That probably is. Because that's so much more sombre. Because that is sad. But I think Heart, the Herald, Angels, O Come All Ye Faithful, Deck

the Halls, yeah, they're all in an absolutely banging major key. Right. But I did look actually when we were talking, after we were talking yesterday, because I have got a playlist. This all came from your unwind feature, didn't it? Which you're still listening to. I tell you what, you need to get those batteries in place because you don't want to be halfway through an incredibly sad Dvorak number for it simply to fit. Yeah, but I couldn't hear it on the radio because it's a streaming service, isn't it? So... Oh, it's only on the streaming bit.

Battery-operated radio. I'm confused because you said it was radio 3. Yeah, radio 3. Unwind. The battery-operated thing is my fixation on preparing for a cyber attack. I'm just confident that most households in Britain these days do not own a battery-operated radio and we have been told before that we need to get one. Yes, Oliver Dowden issued a lot of... Olive as he was known to his mates, he was formerly Deputy British Prime Minister.

And he issued quite a few, this is what you need to prepare for notices, which aren't always issued by governments but he did have a bit of ridicule about it. Yeah and I think it was unfair because I do think we have to... It's something quite sensible. Yes, think we have to be realistic just in case. Make sure you've got a wireless at work. So just going back to the sad songs, so can you picture in your head the Mahler Symphony? It's one of those incredibly incredibly sad pieces of music that is usually in it's probably in an EM Foster movie with a woman who's been bereaved looking out from a first floor drawing room across some frosted topiary. Okay. It's that level of sadness

Yeah, and that's C sharp minor and I think that might be as sad as you can get Okay Do you? What you did ask? Well, you did ask. I know I did ask. Right. It just shows how little I understand the world of music. And I understand more clearly now the link between mathematicians and music, because there's a lot of maths going on here, isn't there?

There certainly is. But you're quite good at maths aren't you? No, not very good at maths. And I mean as I proved yesterday I can't remember anything from the world of music. But I did so much music when I was young and then it became that terrible either or thing which I think lots of teenagers face where if you've got... Snogging or music practice. Exactly that. Yeah. And I think the lesson for me would be to not... and actually, you know, I haven't... neither of my kids have had to face the either or choice because there wasn't a massive either thing going on.

But I think I'm quite a fan of that. But I think it's difficult if you've got a proper, proper, proper prodigy. That wasn't me. But somebody, you know, who really wasn't me, but somebody you know who really can't help themselves but be in the sport or the discipline or whatever it is that they're excelling at. It'd be interesting to hear from parents of kids who've got that level of expertise because you can't tell kids not to do something that they're really enjoying and they're really good at.

No, but it's quite a responsibility to be the parent of a child who's super good at something. Definitely. It really is and it must impact on the rest of the household. Other siblings in particular. Other children, yeah. And indeed on you. I mean, you know, I've thought about so many Olympians owe everything to the parent who

drove them to the swimming pool at five in the morning. Yeah. And that's the either or that I think is really, really difficult because I think you want to face that in your teenage years. I think when you've got an either or in the 20s, it's far, far harder to navigate, isn't it? I want to bring in Judith who says, I don't usually get involved in the local Facebook community. Wise move, Judith. Are you involved in yours? No, I haven't been on Facebook for years and years and years.

No, I haven't either. But a recent post, she says, did catch my attention. Someone had shared a video with subtitles no less, celebrating the reopening of a road that had been closed due to construction of HS2. That's our high speed network. Much ridiculed and it appears to be taking about a century and a half. It's a mirage in the distance. To actually finish. Anyway, back to Judith. She says the video described how the closure had, quote, ruined lives and, quote, kept families apart, even though the road closure in question lasted just a week. And there were plenty of alternative routes available.

Feeling that the hyperbole was just a bit much, I commented underneath, Meanwhile in Gaza, to provide some perspective. While one person responded sympathetically with I hear you, another accused me of straw manning. You heard of this? I've not. No, I had to Google the term. I just wasn't familiar with it she says. They then suggested that if I felt strongly about the matter I should go and film my own videos. An idea I feel the BBC handles perfectly adequately already. That said, I am curious, have they got a point? Am I guilty of misrepresenting the issue? Or perhaps I should just take the comment at face value and not overthinking it. Okay, straw manning. Would you mind Googling that young Eve because I'm not sure what that is either.

And I'm assuming that's the accusation that you're rep... I don't know actually, I simply can't, I can't define it. Let's see. Thank you very much. So the straw man was the big effigy that you'd burn in the name of? That's right, yes thank you. It's an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it's easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. Right.

Okay. Thank you Eve. So it's good use of the word actually. Yes, I suppose so. But I wouldn't worry too much about being slightly kind of biffed on the nose because So it's good use of the word actually. Yes, I suppose so. But I wouldn't worry too much about being slightly kind of biffed on the nose because lots of people on that Facebook group would probably have read both of those posts and completely heard you but not felt able or willing or brave enough to say, I hear you.

Yeah, quite. I mean, let's just be honest. There are some people who cannot see beyond their own quite small lives and the notion that a road in Britain closed for a week, it hasn't. It's keeping families apart. Yeah, it's not keeping them apart. And I mean, some of the families may have been bloody glad to be kept apart for a week. You just need to send Rod Stewart in and he'll do it all for you. Although he's in trouble with the local council, isn't he?

What's he done? Well, because he filled in his own potholes and then they came along and said that you've made the road, you know, kind of illegal or something, you know, because it hadn't been filled in by proper council workers. It's all gone off in one. And I think that's why he's headlining Glastonbury, just to get away from it. Yeah, my daughter did ask this morning who Ron Stewart was. That's terrible. I don't want to ever ever ever talk to your daughter again. But Ron Stewart does sound like somebody who drinks with my dad

yeah rather than a really sexy pop star. I think he'll be amazing Jane. Do you? Oh my god yes. He can't do do you think I'm sexy? Well of course he will and he'll do it with a lot of irony. But will he? Yes he will. I think I think you underestimate Rod Stewart's ability to laugh at being Rod Stewart. I think he can. I think he's one of the rare pop stars who actually can. I don't think he's as much of a divvy as you think. The big question is where will Pimlico Plumbers founder Charlie Mullins be on that afternoon

because you never see them at the same time at at the same place, do you? No. You just don't. But yeah, I did, yeah, I was very, very, very, very excited to see that Rod Stewart had been announced. But I'm not going to Glastonbury, I've never been to Glastonbury, I'll never get into Glastonbury. No. But I'll watch it on the TV and I think the perspective's better. Yes.

My toilet facilities are much better. Yes. And it'll be a lovely, lovely Saturday night in. But a lovely toilet, haven't you? Really? Actually, do you? I don't at the moment, but that's the story for another day. How has something happened?

Soil pipes, I don't think we want to go there. The world is dark enough as it is. Kindest regards, Angela Morrison. Now I really really love you Angela for introducing this topic, so I'm fascinated by it too. So we'll get through all of the... there is a funny bit at the top about the interview with Errol Musk because Angela says surprisingly I fell asleep while listening to it despite feeling very annoyed at the arrogance of the man. How on earth could you have fallen asleep during that?

Thank you, long Covid is not something I thought I would ever say. Really sorry I got involved. Get well soon. My mum Joan had a best friend for 50 years called Barbara until she died eight years ago who's married to Brian or Brianne as the nurse called him when he had his cat dragged down recently. It's just funny. She called him that because she's unfamiliar with the name. I guess a lot of young people will be unfamiliar with it, won't they?

Brian! It's just funny! It shouldn't be, but it is! I'm going to try very hard to get this. Come on! Not cats, but still important in my mum's life. My mum had two brothers born on the 30th of April, seven years apart, and also has a grandson, James, my son, born on the 30th of April, seven years apart, and also has a grandson James, my son, born on the 30th of April. Gosh.

Which incidentally was my sister-in-law's 40th birthday. You're joking. Keep it coming. Although not the same month or year, both me and my husband Ian are born on the 30th of the month and had our son on the 30th and our daughter on the 15th. My oldest sister has three children, although not the same month, so her first born was born on the 3rd, the next child on the 4th and the final child on the 5th. Oh older sister has three children, although not the same months her first born was born on the third, the next child on the fourth and the final child on the fifth. Oh I don't believe it! Barbara's two daughters were born on the

25th of December and the 25th of November. It was weird going to a birthday party on Christmas Day. I find coincidences like this fascinating and hope you do too. Off to start preparing for an early Christmas with extended family on Saturday, which is my birthday. Yes, it is St. Andrew's Day or as the nurse would say, Anne Drew. So Angela, I think this is really, really, really common and has never been properly explained. I thought we were just having fun with numbers. What's happened here? Well, the coincidences in families because my mum's birthday and her mother's birthday are consecutive days, the 17th and 18th of August.

My son and his dad's birthdays are consecutive days, the 13th and the 14th of January. In our family in three generations, we have the 20th, the 21st and the 22nd of February see where I'm going with this it's really weird. That is weird. And out of all of the 365 days in the year how can it be that there are just so many coincidences. Clusters. Yeah coincidences of birthdays. Are you a member of the nursing page? I'm thinking of going into it. God help everybody. All I'll say about that is you'd be better at it than me. I don't know, well we need other people to get involved. I can't bring any of my own family's examples though. I know but as you've discovered with your recent DNA test, maybe

people aren't as linked as you think. Oh dear, well you've dug a bit of a hole for me there. It was my sister's DNA test. I know, but you are connected to your sister. Well am I? I mean we don't look alike. Alison, you're liberated. She has been very happy since she had the results. No, no, I don't think I said that she was having it, but I'm not sure I mentioned what

the results were. Anyway, I should just say that it came back with the fact that... I mean, by the way, I still don't really get DNA tests and I don't get quite how they work and how they can be so certain of your heritage. I'm with you. Okay, good. And somebody listening to this because people are far cleverer than we are, please tell us. So in short, without revealing too much about my sister, it was something, and she won't mind, but she was 38% Scottish descent and 37% Irish. And we, neither of us had ever thought that we had any Scottish connections at all in our family. And nor do either of my parents, as far as they know, have any Scottish connections in their family. And then the rest of it...

But somewhere... Well, clearly. I mean, the rest of it, by the way, in my sister's case, was English and North European. So we're barely English, but that's kind of what I suspected anyway. But what I didn't know is that I was just as entitled as you to wear a kilt. Well, you are. You should find out what your plan is. But if it's been an indiscreet liaison with a Scottish person, you're never going to know. By the way, I'm not dopping in either of my parents here.

This must be way, way, way back. Yeah. But is there not a possibility that it's a Gaelic connection? So yeah, quite, quite possibly. A Celt, we're definitely Celtic. So way back in your Irish ancestry, there is a very simple connection of... To Scotland. Well, the thing about all this is, and this is why I need the help of listeners, is that

your mum and dad are your parents, but then you've got four grandparents, eight great grandparents, and so we go on. There are so, so many people involved here. The maths was impressive for a little while. And then... And then I lapsed it. Would it be 16 great-great grandparents? 32 great-great-great grandparents? And 64 great-great-great-great? Because it would quadruple. You'd have to do squares of, wouldn't you?

So this is what's so ridiculous when people appear on television or wherever and say, my great-great-grandfather was such a person. He was also the great-great-grandfather of 108,000 other people. It's all copplers, isn't it? And yeah, I'm absolutely with you on that. So do tell, if you've had a DNA test and you're a bit baffled by the findings and you understand where they all come from, please do let us know. And also I don't understand going forward, one of my least favourite phrases in the English language ever, how DNA can remain so accurate when you're doing that geographical DNA, because the more people move around, then doesn't the, you know, you're talking about Scottish

DNA. I don't understand what Scottish DNA is. So is it different DNA? I mean, not everybody in Scotland can have the same DNA link and as more and more communities marry different communities and have children by different people. What I will say, Fie, is that when I was very little, I was incredibly fussy about food, but I did like shortbread. Well there you go, but you don't like Rod Stewart. He's probably less Scottish than I am. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Wee Jane. Don't call me that. That's too much. Well, I was really happy to have gotten you Wee Fee, but now I've found out I'm just as entitled to it. Oh, it's all Jamie. It's all Jamie Garvey. Well, of course, it's only my sister's DNA. Who knows what...

I haven't got a... Would you send off one of those kids? No, not in a million years. No. No. OK. Right. Our family is complicated. Well, as it turns out, ours is more complicated than I thought. Anyway. I was trying to do just a very simple family tree for one of my kids when they were doing

that kind of classic genealogy project or whatever and I just couldn't get a piece of paper long enough on one side to try and get through all of the marriages. Various complications. And that's before I even came to mine. No, I'm not going to do a DNA test. Have you got any tips for Aoife? She says I'm shortly going on maternity leave and in line with your puritanical views

on daytime television. We are very, very strict on that, as you know. I am aiming after the initial fog to limit television during the day. Apart from the obvious slot of your show, what radio recommendations do you have? I'd like a mix of chat and music and appreciate your well-informed thoughts. She also says PS, vinted, fantastic for maternity

clothing. Yeah, I do think today's pregnant ladies are so fortunate to have so many options in maternity clothing. Anyway, so how can we help her out? So chat and tunes. Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Do we have to recommend people who are just in this building? Well I think it would be a good idea. There's plenty of entertainment on Virgin Radio these days. There certainly is. As Ryan, I don't know how to say his other name. Tabridi. Tabridi. He's on Virgin in the Morning. He's a very acceptable Irishman.

Tom Allen. Tom Allen. Tom Allen at the weekends. Now he's funny. Oh he's proper funny. He's properly funny. I think you'll like him. And of course, we don't want to totally dismiss the work of the major broadcasters.

There are some cracking people around and you don't have to listen for long. You can just dip in and out, can't you? Yeah, I'd find Kenbury's somewhere as well. His links are just funny. I've not heard of him, but I gather he's a broadcaster. Yeah, but you've got to be of a certain age I think to enjoy his greatest hits. Yeah, I think, yes, well done. I think Aoife might be a little young for that. But the best of luck with everything that lies ahead.

And actually we're not, I mean, look, between you and me and the Gatepost, we have been known to slip on the television during the day, haven't we? Not just, as I always say, just for state occasions. Sometimes I have lapsed. Yeah. And I think it's absolutely fine as long as it isn't fiction. If it's fact television, fact-based television, I think you can do that. I do think during your maternity leave, all normal bets and rules are off. I mean, there are no standards. I watch Bleak House on an absolute loop. Now I've found it very comforting. I watched Bleak House on an absolute loop.

Now I found it very comforting. Well you know because it was a really good production Jane and it was in 15 minute bursts and it was a BBC thing and actually I could sit down and do... do you really want to know this? Well I could do an episode on each bosom when I express my feelings. Okay, enough. Right, I think I'd rather... And I knew it was time to go. Okay, I'd like to hear more about your soil pipe. and Sunday Times. And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively about money and personal finance.

Each week we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt, saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish. Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyd's Readymade Investments. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessie Kirkshank and on my podcast Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture, but when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show.

I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jessie Krugshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

Now, Gina Miller is something of a force of nature. You'll probably remember her name from her high court challenges against Brexit in 2017. She took the government on at the Supreme Court over triggering Article 50, the legal mechanism of taking the UK out of the EU. And in 2019 her second victory came when the same court ruled that Boris Johnson's decision to prorogue Parliament was unlawful. But that's not what Gina is here to talk about today.

For many years her day job has been about money, and since 2019, she's run Money She, a platform that aims to help women feel more powerful investing their money. She's now partnered with Tim Campbell, the original apprentice winner, to expand the platform. Gina, this is about giving women independence, isn't it? Because actually, these statistics about women

trapped by financial abuse are really striking. They are incredibly distressing, I think. Today is actually Economic Abuse Awareness Day and you know, the statistics are one in seven women are suffering from, in the UK, suffering from economic abuse as part of their overall domestic abuse. It goes hand in hand with domestic abuse and the reason I am even more passionate probably than normally having been in the industry is that I'm a survivor of domestic violence and part of the control that I experienced was economic and financial and we know that about 30% of women feel trapped in toxic relationships because they don't have the access to any financial independence or money that's

theirs and so the sort of you know the F off fund as it's called is just not there. Yeah do you mind telling us a bit more about what had happened to you? Not at all, I mean I was somebody who was attracted to me who you know loved my vivacity, my career, all the things you think would attract somebody, but then spent time, and this is very common, systematically breaking that down and breaking me and wanting to control me.

And part of that was to say, well, you're busy doing what you're doing, let me look after all the money. And so everything was in joint accounts, I didn't have credit cards in my name. And you sort of go along with it because you're in a relationship, you're happy, you're married, you're sharing your chores and you know you're deciding how you're going to share what has you go forward and over time he basically took away all my financial independence and the problem

with that is when you want to leave is not only don't you have funds to actually leave But then when you're trying to build yourself back up again, you don't have any credit rating You can't get any you don't have anything in your name. You don't have a bank statement in your name You don't have bills in your name. Nothing is your name. So trying to build a life Afterwards a financial life much less trying to access a rent or property I mean in my circumstances I ended up living in my car for three weeks because I literally did not have a penny. You're obviously in a much much better place now but you know I think everybody would be very sympathetic to hear those experiences.

At what point does financial abuse actually become something criminal that a woman who might be listening and recognizing herself in your story today could actually go to the police, step outside of her house and say, something wrong is being done to me? So economic abuse is actually legally defined and you can go to the police and report that but it does come under a domestic abuse and coercive behavior so you can but the problem is being taken seriously and and I you know it took me three years before the police actually listened to what I was saying because the person I was married to was very senior very well to do the city and you know why would why I mean because there are all sorts of things you know that's a

said is that you're suffering from mental illness you're having a breakdown all sorts of things so you know the society has a responsibility also but so does justice system all of it needs to be looked at when it comes to how we actually assist people going through an abusive relationship but finances you know if think about that if you don't have any access to money how can you get away how can you leave so let's start talking about the more positive things that people can do if we leave that situation aside and we assume that we're now talking about women who are in work who are earning money who would like to join in with the investment

world that promises them a brighter future, compound interest, something on the horizon that is going to make their lives more certain. Why are we still so reluctant to even entertain or have a conversation with those kind of terms in it, Gina? It's multifactual but the evidence shows that there is this, as I said, go back to the societal view that investing is for men, it's a man's world and the jargon is really a big barrier. You know, the industry uses jargon and terminology to create this barrier so that it can charge lovely fees and be important but actually it's not necessary and I've always said the

industry has a responsibility to really promote financial literacy and to really promote to get rid of all that jargon Because actually then they do better anyway, we'd have more more clients We actually as a UK men and women We don't have a big take up when it comes to investing and why this is crucially important is Because if you're just putting money in cash, so you've got your say you're putting away a thousand pounds now What you want is in the future for your thousand pounds to be able to have the same purchasing power, to buy the same basket of goods in say 20 years time as it can do now. So if you had put that thousand pounds away

in say 2020, in 2040 you need that money to be £1,970. Cash alone is not going to get you that. That's why investing is so important. So at Money She, are you actually investing the money in a different way, or is it just a wrapper that doesn't use the same kind of language and invitation as other funds would do? The difference, Fassis, what we're doing is we we supply a lot of financial resources and tools to get women to understand the basics of investing and understand the terminology But then with technology, this is why technology at its best It allows you to actually go and play if you like use tools to match make your your risk profile with what sort of investments

Would suit you with your timelines, what you're looking to do. And then we also have investment solutions. And what I've done is taken out lots of layers of costs. So what you can do is just invest directly rather than going through lots of different brokers in lots of ways. And that way you're keeping your investments transparent, you own it, it's in your name, but also you can actually smooth out some of the risk and smooth out some of the costs. So why aren't other people doing that? Because other investment companies and platforms want business, they must want female business. Are you the only person who's looking at it in a different way?

No, I'm not the only person, but a lot of companies, big brands, have done it as a sort of a little bit of a side hustle almost. Women are an afterthought because typically women don't have the same big pots of money so they don't make as much money out of women. But just women don't make as much money. But also they don't tend to invest as much. So the average woman for example at Money She compared to our male brand SEM Direct, the average size of our female clients compared to the average size

of our male clients is about a third. So they don't make as much money from them. And because women take a bit longer to sort of feel comfortable, because I always say do not invest if you don't feel comfortable. So it's a bit more hand holding, a bit more time to get them on board as a client. But the thing is, once they're on board, they're great clients because they tend to be very loyal clients and stay on longer and have a much more long-term view than men who may be a bit more speculative. So there is a win-win for the industry, but it's just not... It's quick money for them going after the male industry. And I just think it's wrong.

So they are trying, but we're not doing enough. And financial literacy needs to be promoted by government as well as institutions. And is that disparity in the number of women investing and the amount that they're investing, does that have a direct correlation with what women are seeing in the industry itself? The representation of women in banking, in funds, in unit trusts, all of that? Absolutely. And this is where I'm very distressed by recent data in the last year or so, in that female fund managers, the figures are actually going backwards. So it was on average about 17% of fund managers who are women. Now it's about 11.3.

So, you know, we're not seeing female faces enough in the industry. And when it comes to clients or to investors, yes, more women are saving. But when you look at something like, say, an ISA, an individual savings account, which is a great wrapper because it's tax free, everybody should be doing their ISA. It's many more women are in cash ISAs not stocks and shares. So it's that cash element. So brilliant the women are putting more money away but cash is not going to get you where you need to be. Do you have your own money invested in your own company? Absolutely and that's one

thing I think to say I say to people and you know say I'm partnering with Tim Campbell because we're both passionate and purposeful when it comes to trying to get women and marginalised groups to really become financially independent and we're invested alongside our clients. Same fees, same decisions, same everything. Do you have to have a lot of money in order to start investing at Money She? The minimum investment amount is 10,000. I'd love for that to be five but we need to be viable business and I'm hoping we get to that but it's 10,000 if you've then opened up once you've opened up your account with 10,000 it's 200 pounds a month. What's your return? So there's a big question so if we look at our say

absolute return portfolio which is 45% in bonds 55% in equities and I personally put in in 2009 I put in a hundred thousand into my account that's now worth two thousand seven hundred eighty. Okay. So about a hundred and thirty six percent. A hundred and thirty six percent. Over that period. Okay. Even I know that's big Jane. But on average I mean what you should be looking at, I was going to say, we can't promise performance, we can't, you know, nobody can tell what's coming in the future, but keep your fees low, keep your risk diversified and you know, aim, you should be aiming at something between five and seven percent. You know you

said that cash just doesn't do the job for you. Yeah. But it doesn't go down either, does it? I suppose inflation might mean that it does. And that's what, I mean, you're back to that financial education, aren't you? Yeah, you are. And I think the thing is the rule of thumb in the industry is, you know, think about all your expenses and keep about three to six months cash that would get you, you know, cover your three to six month. And then the rest of it, think about investing. And the thing about the modern way of investing and the way we are doing it at MoneyShe is it's liquid, it's 24-7, you go in, if you think oh I'm not sure about this, I need to draw down some money, you can do it in three

or five, seven days. It's just so liquid if you can do it in a modern way. And those methods are available to us now. Yeah, can I just ask you one question about politics please? Are you enthusiastic about Rachel Reeves and the Labour government doing a lot of good stuff for the economy? It's been a bumpy ride so far. They are pledging closer ties to the European Union which I presume might make you happy but business isn't happy Gina, is it? Business is not happy, and I have to say, there are lots of things that I'm concerned about. Business is not happy, I'm an entrepreneur.

I knew, I mean, you could see the writing on the wall, and I don't understand why they've not done far more consulting and impact studies on so many areas. One of the things I definitely advocate they should be looking at is coming back to big pension funds like local authority pension funds and the big pensions funds should actually be Man be investing in UK equities

We need to grow our economy in other countries like Canada for example the big pension funds like the FARA brigade or the teachers pension funds of their equity bit there is 20% is actually goes into Canadian equities and I think that's where we should be going in the UK that we should be of the assets allocation and from pension funds that some of that should go into UK companies we need to grow our UK economy. Okay and standing closer to the EU that must be pleasing to you? It's not going to be easy because unfortunately there are some legal

things called out lies in the CPTPP deal comes into effect on the 15th of December which means it's not going to be so easy to go back in but customs unions should definitely be on the table. It's lovely to meet you in person thank you very much indeed for coming in this afternoon. So the company we've been talking about that Gina runs is Money She and all details would be available on your website. Gina Miller, she is a woman whose energy is just unbelievable. If you think of the things that she's done in her life they are just so impactful Jane. Well I mean she's the kind of, if she were a broadcaster

she'd be doing it standing up let's just face it. Oh my god she would. She really would. She wouldn't lapse into a chair. No, but to go right back to the beginning conversation about chairs and stuff, Eve was trying to say that it might actually be quite good for you in old age if you'd done lots of standing up in your working life, but our point was everybody who's old, they're sitting down so it's good to practice. Your point was make sure you know what you're doing when it comes to the sitting down decades of your life. I'm still trying out a couple of different poses and I'll get there in the end. Yes, we're getting quite good at sitting down. Okay, thank you for putting up with this.

We'll be back at around the same time tomorrow. Oh, and can we just say, because you've got high excitement today because you are recording an interview with's why I want to get a wiggle on with Alan Titchmarsh and we're going to pop that in the Christmas pantry aren't we? Yes, well I think at this time of year it's just accepted that there's a lot going on very busy lives and packed schedules and he's already here, right? So we like to record, it's a bit like doing your roast potatoes really early. Broadcasters like to just stock the cupboard of yule with some festive guests. So I'm doing Mr Titchmarsh today and it will be, it will be pumped out to you at some time before the big day itself.

What's the matter? It's interesting, Joseph. Oh, by the way, that just, can we just end with the, oh yeah, this Yorkshire pudding, the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Zoe, how could you? Now, as regular listeners know, out of respect to the baby Jesus, this rude thing is going to stop in December. So we've only got a week. So we've only got a week, but this is definitely a winning entry from Zoe,

who, a very sort of, you know, innocent lady, she popped out for a family pub lunch at the weekend and came across the most disgusting Yorkshire pudding. Imagine my shock, she says, when this pudding arrived, riding high and proud atop my roast beef in the pub. I immediately knew who would appreciate it most. Yes, I did chop the end off." And she's headlined this email, is this Yorkshire pudding pleased

to see me? And I think the answer is most definitely yes. And this, thank you Zoe, is definitely going to go right to our Insta. Happy Christmas, giving it to young Eve now she can sort that out. Thank you. Jane of Fiat Times. Radio. It's always lovely to hear from you. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

This episode of Off Air is brought to you by the new film Conclave, directed by Oscar winning director Edward Berger and in cinemas on November 29th. I've been looking forward to this one for a while. It is based on the bestselling book by Robert Harris, which I absolutely loved, and it tells the story of one of the world's most secretive and ancient events, selecting a new pope. It follows Cardinal Lawrence, played by Ray Fiennes, who is tasked with running this covert process and he finds himself at the centre of a conspiracy and discovers a secret that could shake the very foundation of the church.

And this is one you are going to want to see in the cinema. You're going to be on the edge of your seat with all its twists and turns and an ending you never see coming. You really won't. Can I just mention as well the incredible cast? As well as Ralph Fiennes you've got Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Isabella Rossellini. It's also got brilliant reviews, critics hailing it as a masterpiece. So it's already got the Oscar and the BAFTA buzz. Do not miss Conclave, only in cinemas from November 29th.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessi Kirkshank and on my, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture, but when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween.

Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jessie Krugshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.