Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Sailing across a sea of ignorance

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Jane needs to get her headphones plugged in first but once she has they discuss Austrian spas, re-using frozen peas and womanhood.Plus, they're joined by actor Tom Walker to discuss his satirical character Jonathan Pie and his tour 'Heroes & Villains' with two weeks in the West End at the Duke Of Yorks Theatre. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

okay right now i've just remembered thank you thank you both uh i was going to bring in ian botham's book and i have brought it in but i haven't brought it into the studio well why don't we save that for the email special because we are recording that on wednesday because we don't have a guest because it's budget day and we'll be very very busy with our fiscal thoughts so why don't you save beefy both them for then and i will bring in the simon bates our tune which is a hardback it was actually a bit too big to fit in my bag today along with my homemade sandwich. But he had a very long and successful career

so he needed to write a very big book. Very much so. To try to contain it all. How big is Ian Botham's? Well, I think he's written quite a few books. This is his, I think it's called something like it's quite a butch name, unsurprisingly, for his memoir Straight Up or something like that it's called. You know,

This Is Me. Take it or leave it! Which is something that men, an attitude that, generalisation coming up, men do take occasionally. I can't help it, this is me. Life at the crease. Born on the boundary with Ian Botham. I found a passage about a nasty bout of dicky tummy trouble he had on a tour.

Well, there's bound to be an R tune about diarrhoea. So, yes, Campano. This will be up and running, so to speak, on Wednesday. Right, now, it's just worth saying, we do say it most weeks, but just thank you for these emails, because it's taken us forever to read them all. We do read them all, but we cannot read them all out. But it is good that we've got an email special this week.

Yeah. So especially because two of our topics are quite meaty. We've got a lot of birth stories to get through. And we've got quite a lot of oral history stories to get through as well. So please don't think that we've moved the topics on. Some of those will be coming your way on Wednesday. Before I forget, the Future Lido's group have got in touch yes they have i noticed that and so um you know when we were saying that we're going to be very busy in our third age because we've got

lots of projects we want to do and one of mine would be to advocate for lido's all over the country and of course there's a group that's doing that already it's called future lido's and it's superb so you can register your interest if you're part of a group that's trying that already. It's called Future Lido's and it's superb. So you can register your interest if you're part of a group that's trying to get a Lido reopened because there are so many of them, Jane. But they fell into disrepair. They kind of fell out of fashion.

Were they originally Victorian? Yes, so it came from the Victorian idea of kind of mass bathing being allowed and encouraged. And, you know, it was health and cleanliness yeah because people didn't have bathrooms in the same kind of place and but i think i mean the original lidos would go back wouldn't they to ancient roman times i mean they had a similar thing about the bathing yeah but wasn't that just men oh gosh very good question very good question i think that there would have been women-only baths as well.

Would there? Okay. where you can get involved and support your local Lido to be reopened or refurbished or built in the first place. But it also helps you to find places that you can swim outdoors too. And maybe at a later stage, when we find a suitable peg to hang it on, we could actually talk to the people behind it. Because I'm always flabbergasted by those statistics about the benefits of outdoor swimming. And I know that you like to laugh a bit about it,

but it just ticks so many boxes. Look, summer's coming up. It's over 10 Celsius in London today. Why don't we aim to do a highly successful outside broadcast from a Lido? Well, I think that would be amazing, Jane. And actually, Deborah, who is the kind of press-facing, media-facing, front-facing person

from future Lido's, occasionally swims in the Lido that I swim at in London Fields, in East London, but she's from Liverpool. Goodness me. Well, there's another box ticked. So I think that's where we're going. Well, I think we should head to Liverpool. Where would your nearest open-air swimming pool be to Crosby? I suppose you've got the beach, so maybe it's just not quite so cool.

Although I don't think, although the waters, when Britain was in the European Union, water cleanliness significantly improved. I think this is correct. Obviously, we're not sure now quite how vibrant and health hygienic it would be to swim in the River Mersey. I'm not sure it would be. I don't want to recommend that you do.

Let's put it that way. No. Please don't say Auntie Jane said it was okay. Because Auntie Jane really doesn't know. And I would err on the side of caution and put it off for about 450 years. Yeah, I'm with you on that. But let's talk more about Lido's appropriate time. So thank you, Deborah, for getting in touch.

Yes, they seem like an incredibly good idea. And there was certainly one in Droitwich. I remember that from my local radio days because we did an April Fool about the possibility of Droitwich staging the Olympic Games when Birmingham dropped out of the race. And the idea was that the swimming events would be at the Droitwich Lido. Well, Droitwich is Droitwich Spa, isn't it? It's a spa town. Yeah, all that wonderful salt. race and um the idea was that the swimming events would be at the droid which lido well droid which is droid which spa exactly it's a spa town yeah yeah yeah all that wonderful salt and a fantastic

hotel called i think it's chateau chateau impney it was a french chateau bought by a salt king and built sorry by a salt king for his french wife wow Wow. Yeah. A chateau in Droitwich. That's right. Incredible. C'est incroyable. Yes, I don't want to get myself into trouble here. I do understand it's a hotel. I think it's still going.

I'll have a quick Google when we come out of the studio to make sure I don't get into any more trouble. One of the things I love about this podcast is we both leave our journalistic credentials at the door. Well, it's the idea that you've checked it out first, that you know the name, that you've got two reliable sources. No, it's just let's not bother.

I think we can rely on Andy in Margate, who says Jane, Tufty. He broke my heart. I think it was a gentleman. At infant school during the 1960s my class was visited by two ladies who gave us a road safety talk, illustrated by a slideshow featuring Tufty and his woodland chums. When the talk finished, we were each given an application form to join the Tufty Club, with instructions that we were to take these home for our parents to complete before coming in the following day with a six-penny-bit sellotape to it.

In return, they promised we would receive our Tufty Club badges. I duly obliged as I assumed did most of my classmates and we waited. But did our Tufty Club badges arrive? Did they heck? We pestered our teacher about it for weeks but eventually gave up feeling not only disappointed as only a five-year-old can but in my case betrayed by Tufty himself. Fast forward 30 years or so to the late 80s when I was deputy head of a primary school in Kent and the reception class teacher announced that she'd arranged for her class to get a visit from who else but the Tufty Club.

Still smarting from the sting of a freshly opened wound, I unburdened myself of my childhood pain upon my colleagues. Well, during the morning of the visit, I was interrupted in my work by a knock on my office door and a summons to attend reception. There and then I was inducted into the Tufty Club, albeit 30 years late, by a rather scary-looking tufty. They're bang on, says Andy, when they say, you should never meet your heroes.

Yes, I imagine that meeting a full-sized squirrel road safety squirrel might actually be more intimidating and frightening than you might have imagined how terrifying yeah yeah yeah i don't quite know i mean these things are always really weird when we pick an animal to be the face of something like road safety i mean particularly when you bear in mind the amount of roadkill on britain I mean, particularly when you bear in mind the amount of roadkill on Britons. I was going to say. They don't actually obey their own rules, do they?

The strike rate's high. It is quite high, yeah. Isn't it? Yes. Anyway, thank you. Thank you for that fond reminiscence, Andy. It's lovely to think we've got retired deputy headteachers listening, isn't it?

It is. We've got a very high... What's the right term? I don't want to say high-minded because they're not. We've got a very esoteric audience. Oh, very. Very much so. And we've got a lot of healthcare professionals and they've got a lot of very interesting things to say about birth.

Yeah, they really have. We've also got quite a lot of healthcare customers and equally they've got quite a lot to say about birth too. But let's dwell on some pillow art just for a couple of moments because Kate has sent a fantastic picture in from her holiday. Dear Jane and Fee, I'm not normally excited by a scatter cushion. What's wrong with you, Kate? For God's sake.

You're obviously not as old as me. Karate chopped or not, but to have to give recognition to the fabulous housekeeping staff in our hotel in Austria during a recent family holiday, full use was made

of pillows and duvets to produce amazing creations, the highlights being dinner attire for the discerning Austrian couple and a fabulous

diorama. Is that the right way to say it? I don't know, but I like the way you did, so get on with it. Okay, diorama

of the magnificent Alps incorporating my children's cuddly toys. See, photographic evidence attached. And every single pillow has been placed on the bed and karate chopped to make it look like mountains, with lots of the kids' cuddly toys looking as if they're ascending the mountains. Look at the bottom one there. And I just have to hand it to the staff who thought to do that.

Isn't that lovely? And just really funny as well. If you walk back into your room and you saw that, I think you'd be really impressed. Never mind the chocolate on the pillow. Yeah, that's always a mistake, isn't it? We just find it slightly weird. And thank you as well to Anne.

Was that from Austria, did you say? From Austria, yes. Just reminds me, a friend of mine had been to stay in, I think a lot of, I'm going to get contradicted again here, I'm wading into more dangerous territory. There are some very formal Austrian hotels where, as I understand it, the waiting staff, young women, are in very old-fashioned uniforms,

which I don't think we'd have in British hotels now, with their, I'm going to say, with their attributes very much to the fore yeah I know what you mean so I'm already thinking of quite a tight white blouse and then a waistcoat that's almost like a corset yes underneath exactly that pushes up the boobies yes that seems to be still very much in vogue in some parts of Austria but aside from that it's a lovely country and well worth visiting. It gave us Julie Andrews.

It certainly did. They're very clean in Austria as well, aren't they? Never been. Have you not? No. That's why I went to the funny medical spa. Oh, yes, that's right. I'd forgotten this. That was in Austria. It was, yeah.

I sometimes think back to that week. The elements of it were lovely and cosseting, Jane, but elements of it were just so aggravating. Presumably no busts on display in the hotel, though. No, so all of the staff, most of the staff, were dressed in that kind of pseudoscience way, you know, where they're all wearing white coats. Oh, yeah.

And, you know, with their watches upside down on their top pocket. Don't make you a doctor, but you look like a doctor. There was an awful lot of that going on. So I wasn't entirely sure. I think, you know, lots of people swear by it, but for me, it was more spa than medical and there just wasn't enough to eat. This comes in from Caroline who says,

after giving birth to my first child, now 21, who was five weeks early and made an appearance in four hours, the consultant announced it was a bit of a mess down there and it may need further surgery to make it look good again in my gas and air induced haze i told my husband to look as he was the only one who ever went down there he was and still is horrified went back at home with my temporary fix the pain and burning of the stitches was too much and my midwife told me sue that was something cold all i could find after she left was a fab lolly in the freezer so with wrapper on and a light wrap of loo roll into my knickers it went and provided me with the perfect cooling relief i needed thank you very

much indeed for that caroline do you know what really weirdly i have heard of that being recommended uh actually as uh you know you do have lots of stitches after birth actually just to put a nice lolly in your pants can be extraordinarily helpful. Yeah but not effective for terribly long presumably. No. Because it would melt. It would yeah but I think using my knowledge of science. I think the

numbing might last for a longer time. When people use bags of peas you know when you use bags of peas for... You mustn't use them again. You mustn't put them back in the freezer. Well, I was going to ask, do you put them back in the freezer?

Well, you mustn't. Why? There is a reason, and I don't know what it is, but somebody will know. This is like... It's absolute. We're sailing across a sea of ignorance. But the thing you have to remember about us,

we're well-meaning, OK? We're essentially harmless. There is a very good reason why you mustn't reuse those peas. Because you've defrosted them and they're not fit for purpose. It depends, of course, which part of the body they've been soothing, perhaps. Yeah. I mean, there are some parts you would rule out eating. No, very much so.

Because I think you just feel a little bit kind of ill at ease about the... Yes, when you place them back in the fridge. Yeah. Yeah. I had to put a bag of peas on my foot because I stubbed my toe really, really badly this weekend. It was so horrible.

You went... Are you sure you haven't broken it? I might do, actually. It's got a horrible bruise working its way up my foot. I won't be able to play for the first team, Jane. Oh, dear. We're on the bench this weekend. You've got a football story coming up.

I'd like to hear it. But I did put the peas back in the freezer because I thought, well, I haven't ripped open the bag. They'll be absolutely fine, won't they? I don't know. I've never put them back after an incident in which peas have been a medical aid. Okay.

Well, if someone could explain why we shouldn't, I'd preferably be a man. Especially this, the week of International Women's Day. Fee and I are doing a thing. We're doing an event to market, aren't we? We are. We are.

We won't say the next bit. We're going to look back on our lives as women. As women. It's going to take half on our lives as women as women it's going to take half an hour or we can't remember most of it probably just as well anyway look you've had a bad experience with a particular football team on the way home

well do you know before I say it I want to make it very clear that I've travelled on many forms of transport over the years and on trains let's be honest if you're doing a long haul, and I was going back from Liverpool to London this weekend, you are trapped in a relatively small space with, it could be anyone. I think some of our listeners have used trains.

Yes, yes, that's probably, okay. So I'm not bringing you an experience you haven't tasted a little bit yourself. But it was the a quarter to six train back to London from Liverpool on Saturday night. Now, you have to be aware that if Liverpool or Everton are at home and they've kicked off at the now, not actually that common, but formerly traditional time of three o'clock, you can get from the grounds to the main station in Liverpool to get back to London. And it was probably about two minutes before that train was due to leave

when all the hammers, the happy hammers got on. Were they forever blowing their bubbles, Jane? Oh, blow their bloody bubbles, I tell you. Unfortunately, they had won. They'd beaten Everton. I think it was 3-1 or something. And I had told, I said, I was with my eldest daughter and I said, oh God, I think, hopefully,, hopefully they won't be able to make it on time.

And we nearly got away with it, but then they just got on at the last minute. And I can't be the only person in our carriage who was treated, and I use the term advisedly, to two hours and 25 minutes of beery, rude, sweary banter, but it wasn't banter. And I'm not saying that West Ham

fans are more lairy than others, and I know Liverpool fans can be annoying, I'm quite sure they can. And also I've been on trains with hem parties driving me insane as well, so it isn't just men. But there was just something about their totally entitled attitude, that the whole of the carriage had to listen to their really quite unpleasant aggressive sounding conversation now they weren't aggressive not to me or to any other customers

but they didn't they just were it was just really unpleasant to listen to and we had no option even if you put your earbuds in, you could still hear them. Yeah. Well, I'd agree with you because the point is that they're holding the shape of the environment that they've just come from. And I know that's a very Radio 4 way of putting it. But that's what's so annoying about it, isn't it? Because, you know, you don't have antipathy towards sports fans, especially towards football fans. But it's kind of like when you come out of the ground and when you come out of the pub and when you've, you know,

you're in a different, you're in civilian street, aren't you? Yeah. Why do you have to maintain that shape? Because, you know, their ground's very close to us in East London and, you know, if you're just trying to go about your business at Westfield, Shopping Centre, whatever... Because it's the old Olympic Stadium, isn't it? Yes, when West Ham are playing.

And again, I wouldn't single them out. There are other London clubs, I think, that behave in quite a kind of intimidating way, actually. But it's just the fact that your normal environment and how you're used to it being is suddenly just completely taken over by a crowd of people on their way to something else. They're not on their way to that bit, they're on their way to something else yeah you know they're not on their

way to that bit they're on the way to something else it's their sense of absolute entitlement that i think would wind anybody up you know if you're a group of women who've perhaps been to a national trust garden and you're traveling back back to somewhere else you are not going to stagger onto a train and then have an expletive littered, very noisy conversation for two and a half hours which everyone in the carriage is going to have to listen to. You're going to very quietly get out some nice tea towels and show them around. Exactly, yes. And you may have a

you may share a sandwich from M&S. No, it was just a really No, I'm with you. It just drove me mad. It's the effing and it's the seeing, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And we just didn't want to listen to it. I wasn't the only person who didn't want to hear it. Nobody else did either. But nobody said anything to them.

Two quite serious ones. By the way, who's our guest on the podcast today? It's the comedian and actor Tom Walker, who is the creator of this fantastic, bombastic, opinionated, very much on the edge TV host and political correspondent who is called Jonathan Pye. Lovely. This one comes from Lucy and it's about indecent exposure.

We were talking about this on the programme last week because there had been the publication of the latest report into the extraordinary and horrendous behaviour of Wayne Cousins and I say extraordinary just because so much of it had been witnessed in what then led up to the murder of Sarah Everard. You know, his, apart from anything else, indecent exposure. So we were talking about how significant that is, actually, when that happens as a crime

and how perhaps it's not taken seriously enough. And Lucy's email absolutely pertains to that. A few years ago, I saw a man pleasuring himself in broad daylight in Soho. I found a policeman and showed him and he laughed at me and said he wasn't going to do anything about it. And last year, I saw a man completely naked walking along Regent's Canal on a bank holiday Monday

in front of kids, old ladies, etc. I called the police and an officer came to my home and explained there was nothing they could do, despite me getting a photo of the man and info on other sightings that day on the internet. And Lucy says, I'm really fed up of having to explain to the police how to do their job. And we're all fed up too, Lucy, because both those acts are not normal behaviour. And, you know, as we have learnt with Wayne Cousins, they can be the thin end of a horrendous wedge. And the idea that, you know, if you expose yourself in public, that's kind of where you might stop.

That's like not a normal thing to do, but it's certainly not a red flag for anything. Well, I mean, it absolutely is. It absolutely is. So don't get laughed at by the police. And, I mean, I would just be absolutely furious if I had bothered to report that and taken pictures. And, of course, it's a crime. It's just offensive.

It's a crime, and that person's not right. They're not right, and they might go on to do something very wrong. So to say that you can't do anything about it, I think just awful i think furious is the right is the right word isn't it and i think so many women and and decent men uh feel furious at the moment with the way the police have behaved i mean their vetting procedures are clearly almost non-existent um and then you know the fact that i mean i can't mean, I find it so upsetting to talk about what happened to Sarah Everard. She's certainly not the only victim of these sorts of crimes.

But it was just... There was just something about her just doing that walking home. She was just... It was the hashtag, wasn't it? She was just walking home. And how dare that excuse for a man behave in that way. But he should never have been allowed to because he shouldn't have been there in the first place. No.

And also, I mean, Lucy's point is, you know, there are enormous warning signs in the behaviour of men when they start exposing themselves in public. They are asking for a reaction that is completely abnormal. They have stepped over a line. Whatever it is that they might be watching and doing in the privacy of their own home, once they start thinking that they can do something similar

or be that sexual in public, something has gone really wrong and we're all in danger. So, you know, let's not take it seriously. Abdullah Zaidi, the Clapham chemical attacker, had also been convicted of indecent exposure. So it's a massive, massive red flag. Well, I mean, I'd love to hear from police officers who are just probably like us, just feeling so frustrated and beyond angry at some of the stuff that's doing the rounds about your profession at the moment, because there are so many decent people in the police force, I know,

and this must be really, really hard for you. Ruth says, My daughter recently bought me a couple of copies of Smash Hits. It came back into my mind when Jane was talking about doing a PhD on Smash Hits. Yes, I was only... I mean, I won't do that PhD, because I won't do any PhD, but Ruth says, My daughter recently bought me a couple of copies from a second-hand shop in Liverpool. smash hits um yes i was only i mean i won't do that phd because i won't do any phd but ruth says my daughter recently bought me a couple of copies from a second-hand shop in liverpool

they were the ones edited by neil tenants so it was a really exciting part of the canon i didn't realize what an amazing gift this was until a couple of months later i discovered that my close childhood friend had terminal cancer i wanted to visit her but i knew it would be to take flowers or food into hospital, especially as she was struggling to eat. So I took the Smash Hits magazines. As teens in the 80s, we took turns to buy the magazine and poured over Smash Hits religiously, learning all the lyrics and the showbiz facts it offered. So bringing her a taste of our teenage life was a really good gift. We spent some lovely times together in the short time she had and we laughed and delighted in reminiscing about our boring but lovely

suburban teenagehood 40 years ago. We obviously became massive fans of the Pet Shop Boys and I'm so grateful that as 50 year olds we got to see them live giggling like school girls. I'll miss my friends kindness, silliness, frankness friendship, but I'm so grateful for the wonderful cultural gifts that have contributed to our lives and our friendship. A side note, her son's girlfriend put together a random box of photos which were wonderful talking points during visits to her hospice bed. Now we face her funeral, but it will be peppered with Pet Shop Boys tracks, tears and smiles, I'm sure.

Ruth, I'm so sorry, we're both very sorry to hear about your friend and um i'm glad that it's a really good idea actually if you're visiting somebody who obviously can't unfortunately anymore take pleasure in you know the traditional grapes or whatever it might be how wonderful to have something you can talk around in because sometimes visiting in hospital can be it's quite it's quite an art form visiting somebody in hospital yeah but also what a good idea to take something that then you know occupies the time afterwards yeah grapes don't no grapes really don't no i went to visit one of my elderly neighbor in hospital this morning actually bless her she after 10 minutes she said well it's been lovely to see you And that's what I mean about the art of hospital visiting, because I think she was knackered.

And I just, you know, I slightly misread the situation. And sometimes you need to be told to sling your hook. Yeah. You know, if she'd had enough, who can blame her? Probably couldn't get a word in. Not true. Can I just do a final one on hot tubs? Dear Jane and Fi,

thank you so much for reading out my email last week about hotel baths in inappropriate places. My search for a room without a slipper bath moved on to holiday cottages, only to find myself in the uncharted waters of hot tubs. It's not an easy matter to find an Airbnb or cottage without a hot tub stuck in a shed or perched outside on decking.

Small ones, big ones, massive ones that would accommodate an entire football team. an airbnb or cottage without a hot tub stuck in a shed or perched outside on decking small ones big ones massive ones that would accommodate an entire football team the one that made me laugh out loud was a place i'm actually going to for afternoon tea for my mum's 90th birthday it's in the countryside outside of durham and has extensive accommodation focusing on pampering it's got hot tubs galore inside and out but the pièce de résistance is a 1960s double-decker London bus which has been converted into luxury accommodation with an outside hot tub. As every bus has.

Every bus has got a hot tub. And she ends by saying, the inside of the bus is a bit Las Vegas, fake fur and velour, but the thing that caught my eye in the photo gallery were the two swans on the beds. Not the real ones, of course, but the type that are fashioned from white towels into the shape of swans,

which are then positioned beak to beak. I bet the housekeepers can't wait for the karate cushion to catch on. One chop, job done. And I'm with you, Marie, and the hot tub in the Airbnb thing just makes me laugh. I think you're brave if you get in the hot tub in your Airbnb. Oh, I've just remembered.

Yes, we absolutely are. There is a great line in a play I saw. You know I was going to the theatre. Oh, God, yes. Yes, I've been to the theatre again, everybody. And I will remember the name of this play. I think it's Till the Stars Come Down, or When the Stars... Anyway, a really highly recommended play.

It's one of the little theatres at the National Theatre. It's on now. Honestly, if you're not a theatre fan and sometimes I wax and wane, this is proper entertainment. It's set around a family wedding in Mansfield. There's rowing, there's shouting, there's sex. It's got the lot.

And there's a reference by one of the characters to a hot tub, but she calls it a sex pond. Well, yes. We went to stay in France, and a really fantastic place actually. The people who ran the Jeet had built a kind of treehouse, extraordinary piece of engineering, and it had a hot tub at the top.

But in the manual for the hot tub the one of the first things it said was please don't have sex in this hot tub and of course you just think someone's had sex in this hot tub i'm not gonna get in with my kiddies about three and five at the time yes oh gosh it is they are sex puns it's a good term this play was by beth steel remember the name of the playwright and And she's very, very good. So quite young, I think, as well. So congratulations on that. I should say that, have you ever seen the film Nativity?

Yes. Oh, one of our favourites. Yes. I mean, it was always a bit of a puzzle to me how Mr Poppy was allowed such access to teaching because it was only on the basis that his auntie was the head teacher. Yeah. There were no CRB checks and all of a sudden he was in.

Yes. You know, I used to think, I'm sure this can't be right, but it didn't stop me enjoying the film. Watching through the prism of a Radio 4 journalist, but yes. Anyway, Mr Poppy's in the play. Oh, that's good. And he plays a Polish man who's the bridegroom on the wedding day. And I was absolutely convinced that they'd found an amazing Polish actor.

And someone pointed out, no, he was in Nativity. That's Mr Poppy. Wow. He's a talented actor in Nativity. He really is. Just before you get to Jonathan Pike, do you remember we talked about Ray, the amazing singer-songstress whose album I'm sure...

Did you go home and download it immediately and listen to it? 21st Century Blues. I have heard it, yes. And don't you think it is amazing? Is it immediately 21st century yes blues i have heard it yes and don't you think it is amazing is it called 21st century yes because i've got a lot wrong in this podcast i don't know check in with that um i maybe i need to listen to it again i think i'm not because i'm not very musical i often don't catch things first time around so i need to revisit okay so she she won all of the Brits on Saturday night. And I thought she was just, she's so, it sounds like such a stupid thing to say,

but she's so human, Jane. By the time she got to the sixth Brit Award, you could see that she'd had this huge adrenaline surge and she'd thanked everybody in the previous five awards. She had a gram with her at one point. And so she took her lovely grandma agatha up onto the stage with her and you could see grandma agatha just just wishing ray to be okay it was a lovely kind of demonstration of grand maternal love and ray just couldn't speak i mean she probably was

overwhelmed i think with cortisol adrenaline adrenaline the occasion, all of it but she's such a I think one of the best stories of where technology has done something good I think that alone is worth celebrating apart from the amazing album because the record label didn't want to

release the album because it didn't fit in with the spreadsheets and all of that kind of stuff and so it really is word of mouth and TikTok and all the other social media sharing that has brought it to the attention and the ears of now over a billion people. But I couldn't recommend it highly enough. And it's not aimed at us.

It's not aimed at 50-year-old women at all. But there are such beautiful stories, nearly 60-year-old, I know, in there. I just, honestly, I would give it a listen. And you know sometimes when something goes massive, it can be a bit of a turn-off, and you kind of go, oh, I know, I don't want to do it. I felt a bit like that with Richard Osman's books. But, no, I did.

When everyone goes, you know, you've got to, you've got to, and there's a bit of me that kind of goes, well, I don't want to. No, I don't want to. But please do with Ray, because I just think she's really just amazing i did really really amazing congratulations to her seriously because she's a very talented woman but i i did watch a bit of the ceremony and honestly it's it what puts me off the the brits is the atmosphere in the room there's such a sort of um studied lack of interest from so many of the people at

the tables that i can't, there's so much hatred and loathing and jealousy. It makes the BAFTAs look pleasant. You know, honestly, I just can't look. It's a cavernous place, isn't it? It's at the O2. It doesn't, yeah, I don't know. It doesn't translate. But I hope it works

for Alistair and Rory when they get there. This is my, I'm going to mention them every week. Said with feeling. So our guest today, by the way, honestly, back to the emails. So many good ones, but the email special is Wednesday. It is. I bought you a banana. Yeah, I like Alistair and Rory's podcast.

I'm just, I'm intrigued as to, I might go to the O2 to see them actually. Would you come with me? No tickets left. No, they haven't sold it out. Not the O2. I don't know. By the way, I think it's my 21st Century Blues. But look, I mean, who cares?

She's just a detail. She's doing fine with our R&B. God love her. Right, okay, so the guest today is Tom Walker, who is a brilliant satirist and actor and comedian, and his creation is hugely popular online. He's done

a hit, I'm going to say it, V, a hit comedy show on Radio 4. Can you imagine it again? You don't get many of them because it's often not very funny. But this one is funny because it's terrifying close to the truth. In this serial, his most recent series, he actually starts being allowed to do a phone-in show and it goes incredibly badly wrong.

So Jonathan Pye is the creator of Tom Walker. Lots of hits on the YouTube, loads of people flocking to his live show and he is on tour until the 24th of March so you probably still have an opportunity to catch a bit of Jonathan Pye doing his thing. He's a news host who loses his rag. He's always very close to the edge indeed. So I asked Tom where he'd got Jonathan from. Well, when? Many years ago. He was in my head for ages, this character of a news reporter and what they really think and what they say between takes.

I've always been interested in, you know, like blooper reels and behind-the-scenes kind of stuff. And when I was growing up, it wasn't that ubiquitous as it is now. You always see blooper reels and stuff. But, like, once a year you'd have this thing called It'll Be All Right On The Night with Dennis Norton and his clipboard. And I always remember, even at a really young age, it was always the newsreaders and the

weather reporters and the sports reporters those were the ones the next day in the playground I was I was always mad about so it's from a very early age that there's always been something about newsreaders about that very prescribed broadcasting voice that broadcasters have so that when things do go wrong and they F and blind or say what they really think or you don't think of them as having private lives these people no so when you so so suddenly when the producer or the cameraman says cut the difference between their on-air self and their off-air self is it is quite marked and therefore I think it's sort of ripe for comedy really did you did you see uh the lesbians sitting on Nicholas Whitchell I remember watching that I remember watching that very that no one knew really what was going on but but also it's

that thing of in normal life if um a group of lesbians burst or a group of anyone, let's be honest, burst into my hotel room now and started shouting, I'd start shouting back at them. But because you're on air and you've got to read the news, you sort of pretend it's not happening. And that in itself is mildly ridiculous. It's like when people are reporting on College Green and you've got someone in the background screaming, stop Brexit, as if that's possible. But the fact that they just carry on and ignore it is quite funny to me, I think. OK. Is there anybody in news who does that, who you genuinely admire, who always is cool, collected, but can also roll with the punches when things go wrong? I don't know how they do it. I mean, when I'm recording these things, anything can put me off.

Because obviously I'm recording it, I'm not doing it live. So I have the utmost respect for them. I always found John Sopel, when he was the White House correspondent, he was brilliant because Trump was coming out with all sorts of stuff. And then it would cut to John Sopel and he could barely contain his, like, I can't believe he just said that, but he was a real pro. But I mean, pie was already a thing in the, you know, throughout all of Trump's tenure.

But occasionally I'd see John Sophan go, he is he's seconds away from pulling a pie and just going off on one about this ridiculous orange man. Yeah. How how do you cope in an age where satire is sort of dead? Because the last image of Trump I've got in my head is he's standing there with these ridiculous trainers he's now flogging. Where do you go? Where do we go from here? It's a really interesting question. I think, I mean, I'm on tour at the moment and my last live show was all about Boris. And Boris, you think someone like Boris or Trump is quite easy to satirise, but particularly Trump, it's actually quite difficult because Trump did it all for you. I remember doing a live show with a lot of Trump stuff in it. And in the end, I just sort of ended up sort of just reading his tweets

out because he did it all for you. Whereas what's interesting now is in approaching this new live show you've got sunak who who at least appears to be a safe pair of hands and at least appears to have some competency and there's nothing immediately uh uh overtly comedic about him and what's been interesting with that is actually as opposed to what my character pie does he normally goes at everything with a sledgehammer with with sunak he's gone out in with a scalpel and that is actually as opposed to what my character pie does he normally goes at everything with a sledgehammer with with sunak he's gone out in with a scalpel and that's actually really interesting and satirically it's more interesting having a go at someone who isn't so obviously satirizable if that makes sense trump by the end of trump i was bored of because what can you do what do? And you always had sort of Trump supporters going, oh, all any liberals are always doing is going orange man bad. But to a certain extent, they were right. That's all you could kind of go. You could just get, he's demonstrably lying to you.

And you either believe that he's lying to you or you don't. I mean, I find it bizarre that half of America still doesn't think Biden is their president. I mean, I find it bizarre that half of America still doesn't think Biden is their president. I mean, that's absurd to me, whether you like Biden or not. But it's hard to know where to go. And I saw your show live from Hammersmith Apollo, and you have a go at people who voted for Brexit, and then you have a go at people who voted remain, and then you have a go at the plonkers who didn't turn out to vote at all so the whole thing just ends in existential despair and um is that actually what is at the heart of you is that where you are just chucking all your toys out of the pram and

weeping in frustration at the devilment of everything well i think i mean that that was my previous show I think and this live show is slightly different but there is definitely a nihilistic bent to it and I certainly get that sense from a lot of people that that you know what's the what's the point you know there's a lot of sort of desperation out there and I think um pie is certainly you know I think a lot of people think you know oh that when people say, oh, they're all the same. I disagree with that. You know, I think I think we do still have options. But I mean, if you look at the state of democracy in America, that's terrifying.

This year is the biggest democratic event in history. There are more people voting this year than than have ever happened across the globe but but those many of those democracies are not in a good state um and i think people people feel that people do feel a sense of of um of desperation but i think you're you're right i mean i'm off i'm always obviously framed as a left-wing comedian I am a left-wing comedian the character is left-wing I'm left-wing but I think it's always important me just shouting and ranting at the Tories for an hour and 20 minutes isn't isn't necessarily that interesting and therefore you've got to find I think it's I think you what I always start the show with the first half going at what I call the low-hanging fruit the Tories or Trump or whatever and then you hold a mirror up to the audience and you say well what about you you're

complicit in this as well and I think that's that's when the show suddenly can turn on a dime and you can start to challenge the audience yeah and you're really horrible to your audience and then they applaud you wildly and then you just say to them, well, there we are. I did say you were stupid and you've just proved it. Yes, they applaud. Yes, they love it when I have a go at them. But yes, there's a few points in this show where I end up berating the audience just as badly as I do Suneck.

And then you get a round of applause for it. So as a left-wing comedian and the creator of this horrific creature, Jonathan Pye, will life be easier or substantially harder for you this time next year if Keir Starmer is Prime Minister? It's certainly a consideration that I've had. And I mean, when I started to write this show, I did realise that this might be my last pop, certainly maybe for 10 years, you never know. My last go at a Tory government, which for Pi is obviously the worst possible people to have in number 10. So I have sort of let myself off the hook and go, let's give them one last kicking. Because I think even if you are a natural Tory voter voter I think I've spoken to a lot of natural

Tory voters who are over the last three or four years have gone I'm appalled at the state of the government but I think the one thing that annoys Pi more than people who the right wingers is is when left wingers get it wrong and I think that that's where Pi will develop to when there's a Labour government in and that's his people that's people that he would have voted for when they're getting it wrong and let's be honest Labour in government certainly in my lifetime has never been a left-wing party it's been left of center but probably uh right of center it's certainly in certain economic terms and and i'm more centrist than the character is and i would take a center center left party over our present party but it

would i don't think pie will ever be happy. Nothing will ever be good enough. And I think that's the problem with a lot of left-wingers is we want perfection. You're either with me 100% or you're against me. And I think that's why we continue to lose elections. But surely you can't lose this one. I sincerely hope not. I mean, my jaw would be on the floor. I can't see a way back for

Sunak and this government. I think there has been too much chaos, even like I say. So I think a lot of natural Tory voters will either stay at home or vote elsewhere. But I think Starmer has to realise, and I think they do know, they're not voting for Starmer, they're voting against this present government. And therefore, but I hope when he gets in, he proves to be a, you know, worthy of it. He's certainly more worthy than a few of the prime ministers we've had over the last sort of five or six years. And we've had a lot of them um and i don't think that there have been a few of them that i think have demonstrated that they weren't particularly fit for office uh and i i make i make a big point about it in in my show that you know there are

we are essentially being led in this country by an ex-hedge fund manager we're being led by you know some disaster capitalists that made a lot of money out of the banking crash of 2008 and they are now running the country and when people say things like oh they're all they're all the same i do quite like to point out you go well uh starman might be many things but he's not a hedge fund manager he's a human rights lawyer and therefore there is a demonstrable difference. Difference, yeah. There is a demonstrable,

and therefore people do have a choice at the ballot box this time round in a way that perhaps they didn't 10 years ago. Can we just have a brief chat about Call Jonathan Pye, which is on BBC Sounds? And I just, it's a phone-in show hosted by Jonathan. Ad is most verbose, ill-informed and passionate. I'm going to say it's sweary. It's very offensive.

And I just wonder how many people didn't get the joke, don't get the joke. It was remarkably well received, I think, from across the board, people from from uh political persuasions because across the series yes there's some Tory bashing in there but there's also a lot of bashing on on cancel culture and the culture wars from left and from right and I think across the board there is actually quite a lot of balance in in that series and it was just very nice for me to write Pi with other fictional characters and I could make Pi wrong. It's very difficult when it's just a monologue or me on stage to make the audience know that me as the author knows that Pi is wrong. characters in there it made him much more obviously a fiction and therefore I could go to town with it a little bit more but I'm I'm I'm really happy with it and uh I I think it's not remiss me to say that there'll be a there'll be more to come in the next year or so okay I'm very happy about good and would you ever call a radio phone in yourself I um no I've never really

understood particularly I mean I mean when you can you catch sort of a bit of James O'Brien or anything on LBC or Times Radio and and particularly when someone phones in thinking they're going to beat the presenter you I've never quite understood it really no I I I have never or never would but also i think that's what pie's dilemma pie's they're hosting this accidentally hosting this call-in show he can't understand why anyone would bother to call in so he's not exactly the the best host for it really that was tom walker aka the very very frightening scary and plain wrong jonathan pie except the really weird thing is sometimes you end up agreeing with Jonathan Pye

and that's terrible. So he's so wrong he's right. Sometimes. Yep. So he's on tour at the moment. Our colleague-o-friend Matt Chorley's on tour at the moment as well. He's coming to a stage near you. He sounded ever so perky on the radio this morning. Yes, it was irritating, I know. And he's been

on two shows. He was high on life wasn't he? It was very disturbing. He's got a lot of bounce, hasn't he? Ruby Wax is our guest on the programme tomorrow. We're also recording an interview this week with Tom Allen to go out at a later date. And Wednesday will be an email special. And we'll be ending the week with either the Tom Allen tape

or Justine Roberts, who's the CEO and founder of Mumsnet. So even if that's not confirmed, the fact we've said it now makes it far, far harder for them to pull out of that. So let's say it's Justine on Thursday. We'll look forward to that very much. Yes, we will. Thank you so much for all the emails.

Jane O'Phee at times.radio. you did it elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man, it's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he was an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock Monday until Thursday every week. And you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests

on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon.