Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Salvaging a marriage via the gut microbiome (with Leila Farzad)

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

Before we can fully begin today's episode, we have to check in with Fi's menagerie... After that, Jane and Fi cover exam anxiety, being livid in shapewear, not recognising yourself at a children's party, and polygamy gone rogue. Plus, corruption could be rife on the office floor... They also speak to actor Leila Farzad about starring in the holiday-from-hell drama 'Two Weeks in August' and her new play 'Under the Shadow'. The TV shows that Jane and Fi recommended today were 'Gold' and 'Legends'. You can buy tickets for Fringe by the Sea: https://www.fringebythesea.com/off-air-with-jane-fi-and-special-guest-jan-ravens/Our next book club pick will be a collection of short stories! 'Interpreter of Maladies' is by Jhumpa Lahiri. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So yeah, they do. They know all of the pet's names, and they always ask after the other ones when I take one in. We're just saying how much fee is going to be missed when you do finally leave your locale, because the vets at the end of the road have really benefited from your presence over quite a few years now, as the menagerie has expanded, but also grown fraylor. So we must just check in on the abscess. How are things going?

Well, Cool's is totally fine. And I did think he was a goner. But, no, he's completely bounced back. Touchwood. I don't want to tempt me by saying that. But he is the OG of the menagerie, so we care about him very much. We were driving back, me and the kids, the other day from somewhere I can't remember. We were just driving past a random bus stop in East London.

And there was an old guy sitting on the bench by the bus stop with a parrot on his shoulder. A great big, multicolored live parrot perched on his shoulder. On his shoulder. I just, I love East London. It is daft all the way through. It was a magical sight. Would a parrot be admitted to a bus? No idea.

I mean, I'm just thinking. No idea. Do you need a parrot passport to get on a London transport bus? It was huge, absolutely huge, lovely thing. Just sitting there. Isn't that wonderful? A little bit of parrot envy. Well, I mean, maybe, is it a, is it,

Okay, to, presumably a parrot isn't an aggressive animal. I think some of them can be. Yeah, okay, right. But I think very well-trained parrots are very loyal. They're very clever. And, I mean, it was tempting to just, you know, screech the car to a halt and go back and get on the bus, just to see what happened.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to be on a bus, particularly one of those hot days you get in London in the summer, on the top deck with a parrot flying around. I'd be quite intimidated by that. But there'll be parrot owners out there, parrot aficionados, who can put us right here. Is it okay to have a parrot in the wild going about its business in a huge city like London? Do they like public transport? Would they prefer to be in a private hire car?

Let us know. And also, if they're very old, do they get a freedom pass? Well, there's no freedom like the freedom I have. Although, strictly speaking, as people have pointed out, I don't have a freedom pass. No, God, let's not start that. Let's, for God's sake, not start that again again. Can I say thank you to a recommendation that came in so many months ago to go and see the adaptation of Barbara Pymne's quartet in autumn,

which is on at the Arcola Playhouse thing. But you never go to the theatre? But I did on Saturday night. Did you? Okay. And? It was a very fine meeting of the loosely termed hackney culture club. We had a, no, we did. We had a very decent time.

And, in fact, it was such a moving play. It reduced one of our... collective tears. And by the end of the play, so it's about four co-workers set in the 1970s who are approaching retirement. And it's really beautifully done. The stage

play, the, what you call it, the script is done by Samantha Harvey who wrote Orbital. So it's a fantastic combination. The staging was great. The costumes were great. The actors were absolutely unbelievable, Jane. I mean, I did really

enjoy it. And it is, very moving. It does by the end of it make you realise how many leaps and strides we've made in 56 years, if we're saying it was set in 1970, for the women, because these are two single women facing retirement. And their place in the world is just radically different to our place in the world as we might head towards retirement. Right. So it's well worth seeing. Because women were routinely not paid as much as men in every single workplace. Oh, but also just that where do you go as a single woman? Where do you live?

Yes. Yeah. And how does society regard you? You know, if you haven't married and if you haven't had kids, you know, your work might have been valued. But when you leave work, what is there of value in your life? So I would hardly recommend it. I thought it's really brilliant.

Which Barbara Pim book is that again? It is Quartet in Autumn. Cortet in Autumn. Okay. Make a note of that. Also, just something I wanted to recommend, because London Falling is a book that we've mentioned a lot. and it does include quite a lot

about the Brinks Matt gold bullion robbery, doesn't it? And the impact that that stolen gold then went on to have on the city of London and how it's grown and how it's changed. I didn't really know that until I read that book. And now I'm watching Gold, the BBC drama,

and I'd never seen that. Have you seen that? Oh, it's very good. Yeah. It includes some people I really like. Other people I don't like, but that's neither here nor there. and I do think the acting is good

and yeah it's just a slice of life Jack Loudon's in it as really horrible man Kenneth Noy who is a really unpleasant individual and yeah it's just properly good didn't know anything about that story so well worth investigating and the guy who wrote the gold is the guy who wrote Legends which is up on the BBC I player at the moment

which is about a customs unit who try and break one of the really really powerful gangs in Liverpool and in London who were bringing heroin in in early 1980s, Britain. And it carries with it the same really superb script. And just the cinematography is very similar. So if you like the gold, go on to legends. A couple of recommendations there, because football will be taking over the television. Yes, he will.

And you might need an escape. In fact, we've been given an very onerous task here at Times Towers. I'm just a tiny bit flattered, are you? Very, very flattered. Should we tell people what we've been asking? to do. It's quite a senior role. We've been up, I'm already thinking, what shall I wear?

So tomorrow we've been asked if we would draw the World Cup sweepstake for the office. Bigstaff. We're going to have to try and squeeze it into our working days somehow. And obviously people will be very angry because people are going to get countries they don't want. And basically your hopes are over if you don't get one of the four teams who could possibly win it. then you're scuppered. And you're going to have five weeks of tedium. But if you do, thanks to us, get one of the big names.

You're in for five weeks of high excitement and the chance of winning a cash prize. Absolutely. A cash prize. We're very available for bribery corruption. Have you entered? Well, no, but are you going to mention that you've both entered? I know.

Well, that's difficult, isn't it? Because if I hold up France and Jane goes Jane Garvey, then I think we'll be shooed out of the building, won't we? I think there's France are one of the favourites, and I think there's general, in Britain, in England, sorry, I should be careful about this, in England, there's, I sort of feel this myself, I don't think the French people care enough about winning,

so it's not fair that they're so good and that they could win again. Why do you think they don't care about winning? I don't think, but they're not as desperate as we are, because they're so used to it that it doesn't mean as much to them. I can't justify this feeling, but I just think them winning the World Cup would be somewhat wasted on the nation, Whereas in England we go bonkers.

But it's not going to happen, so I don't know why I'm getting my hopes up. I just want to mention Gaynor and congratulate Gaynor's daughter, Nancy. Yes, says Gaynor, I've got a Nancy too. I know we're all proud of our offspring, but I just want to toot her horn because she never does. So let's celebrate Gaynor's Nancy. She's a football journalist for the athletic, and she's going to New York today, that was yesterday, to begin reporting on the World Cup, and she'll be working from the offices of the New York Times. brilliant journalist working in a sometimes difficult environment, usually male dominated. Over the

years, she's gone to lots of football matches. Some of the stories have been entertaining, some quite frankly toe curling. No toilets for women journalists. No other women journalists around, etc. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. To say she's earned her stripes is a real understatement. She's passionate about football. She plays in her local team and she was a brilliant player when she was younger. She's knowledgeable and can definitely talk football with any man. Right. By the way, my good friend Liz dropped into the conversation one day that her sister used to be married to Elvis Costello. I don't know if she's called Alison. Okay, well, thank you. That's a nugget. We'll just put that away into our nugget place. Thanks for the entertainment, says Gaynor, you keep me sane-ish. Well, we can both relate to that. I mean, the whole thing keeps us sane-ish.

But there are days that I don't think any of us can actually resist the force of the insanity that's coming towards us. Yeah. Too right. Anyway, I don't. out that Nancy's had to work particularly hard to get to the position she's in now. I hope she has a brilliant tournament and enjoys everything that happens. And what a brilliant thing to be doing. In the offices of the New York Times, writing for the Athletic, it's good, it's great to be there. Well done her. And it will be really interesting to see how the tournament progresses across the three different destinations. I think it's fair to say that has been not more protest already, but more different forms of protest already, because so many things can flate

around this World Cup, don't they? So, you know, there are protests already from Iranians who are living in America that are protests from the LGBTQ community about some of the places that the games are being held in. There will be all kinds of different protests as the tournament moves across Mexico, North America and into Canada. It's going to be a lot, Jane, isn't it? It just is going to be a lot. It is going to be... I suppose there are some people who don't even consider any of that

and just watch the games. If I'm honest, I remember, there was a lot of disquiet around the tournament in Qatar, wasn't there? A lot of people saying, I won't be watching. And then... And then, yeah, you do. You did. Yeah.

So, I suppose we just got to be honest about that. I am a fan. I'm looking forward to it. I know I'll enjoy it. I'll enjoy complaining. Most of all, actually, I'll enjoy complaining. Which is good, isn't it? Well, even I'm looking forward to that very much indeed, yes. Can I put out a little bit of a plea here for a thing that I think is possibly a good thing to do? This comes in from Simon, who says, I wondered if you'd seen the reaction to yesterday's.

It's a couple of days ago now, at Excel A-level maths paper one. What has struck me isn't the usual post-exam grumbling, but the sheer emotional response, social media is full of accounts from students leaving exam halls in tears, sobbing, and feeling completely demoralised after two years of study. Many are convinced that their university plans have been put at risk in the space of a couple of hours. Whether the paper was genuinely harder than previous years will no doubt be debated and grade boundaries may ultimately compensate. But right now, there are thousands of 18-year-olds who feel crushed and are facing

the next exams with their confidence badly shaken. It feels like there may be a broader conversation here about exam designed student well-being and the pressure placed on young people at a point when so much seems to ride on a handful of papers. There is already a petition with over 10,000 signatures from students and parents and the exam was only sat yesterday. That signature petition is now over 25,000 and is still growing. And for people who may have thought, oh, I'm not going to to read a story about A-Levels, it's got nothing to do with me. This has been a really, really exceptionally difficult maths paper that's been set. And even the most competent students found themselves really unprepared by intense study over the last,

well, the whole of school life for some of the questions that came up. And it has caused a huge amount of consternation. And quite a few people have emailed in. And they all say the same thing. They're not, you know, people who are. sign this petition, aren't saying, I'd like my kids get special treatment, it was a bit too hard for them. They're saying actually, you know, with maths, you are very, very well prepared. You know, you have covered an awful lot of ground. And if there are questions put in there that

are simply above the limit of testing that knowledge, what's the point? And you're right that if you don't get the grades, it will affect the rest of your choices and a feeling that it's affected your future career possibly. And this seems to have left people broken. I mean, absolutely broken. It's at-XL. Yeah. I can't remember now how many different exam boards there are. I've never really understood why there isn't just a set paper

that everybody in the country takes. I know Scotland is different. I know Northern Ireland is different too. But yeah, it seems bizarre to me that there are different papers to take. Anyway, I can only assume that the pupils will be protected to a degree by the grade boundaries. Well, they're hoping so. Yeah, but it is miserable.

It's a miserable time of your life anyway. And there is no doubt about it. You need to get these grades to progress. It's boring to say that, but I'm afraid, and there's no point underestimating the impact of a failed A level. It's going to knock you back. There does seem to be something about this exam, because I know that social media has changed the way that people react to exams.

Everybody can share, you know, as soon as they've come out of the exam hall, whether or not they felt that they're done well enough or the question wasn't set properly or all that kind of stuff but this does seem to have been quite universally condemned actually so if you fancied it's changed at all that's running the petition and you never know and I feel for these kids at the moment Jane I really do because there is only one system that they're in

that's a fact yeah and it is it is hard if you aren't one of those students who can just do exams and you know I think there's just increasing evidence that for a lot of kids, it's just not the best way to test whether or not they're, you know, they've paid attention and done the work and being diligent and also being curious about their subject. Well, let's hear from people who may be out there now who've set exams. And when you set an A-level paper, do you and your fellow exam setters sit around thinking, right, this year, yes, this year, we're going to be absolutely, we're going to be so tough, we're going to be so hard.

we want to reduce 17-year-olds and 18-year-olds to tears and shatter their dreams. I can't believe that's what people do. No, but there does seem to be something that goes wrong if, in fact, what you're not providing is a really level playing field for people to be able to display what they've learnt. Quite calmly over the course of two or two and half hours. Huge difference as well, isn't there, between a maths paper and it's English-lit.

I mean, you know, a completely different set of skills are involved. and obviously it's in maths you are largely right or wrong. Well, in fact, you're either right or wrong. How you get there is often part of the mathematical journey as well, isn't it? I speak with all the confidence of someone who just about got a grade B in math so level. But going back to the point that the emailer makes about it being life-changing, I did know, I can still remember the fear in my digestive tract on the day I walked to school to take my math-so level.

Because you couldn't progress anywhere without math-soling. level, could you? Well, you still can't. You can't go to university without a math GCSE above a certain great. Yeah. I mean, there is no doubt that that pressure is absolutely enormous. And at my school, they were, do. Do you remember CSEs and O levels? I do? Well, we both took O levels, didn't we? Well, yes, we took O levels, yes. But at my school, I don't know why they did this, if you did take CSE maths and some girls did, they had to go to a different school to do it. Gosh. They just didn't, We don't have CSEs here, so you can't do it here. Wow.

I know. It was a snobby school. It was academically. It was extraordinarily snobby, yeah. I always thought that was really weird. And the fact that it's stuck in my head, I don't think, no, I'm definitely not imagining that. Because I remember thinking I might have been one of those girls,

but for whatever reason, I just about got away with it. On the subject of your gut, this is relevant, because it will allow us to trail ahead. You're right there? Are you just, yeah, broken something. sure this comes in from Danny it will allow you to tell us

who our guest is today I've also been watching two weeks in August and there's one line that really got me as you know Dan and Zoe's relationship isn't going well

and there's one scene where Dan begs Zoe not to divorce him by manically promising he'll change he lists off a very emotional list of things he'll change about himself

including I'll get my gut microbiome sorted This just seems so absurd. Do we think any woman has ever divorced her husband purely due to his poor gut microbiome or that a woman has ever made a decision to stay with a man purely because he's got a fantastic gut microbiome? Are men these days all just flexing their gut in the hope that women will come flooding in?

Do either of you think your first marriages could have been saved if your first husbands had promised you that one day they'd have a better gut microbiome going forward? Well, funny enough, Danny. Yes. Yeah, and same for me actually, Danny. So it's a lovely detail to have noticed. Yeah, there's...

Actually, that's brought her back to mind because she deserves lots of coverage because I was such a pratt about her book. Claire Powell's book, the second one, All In, not at the table. That does feature a digestive incident quite early on with a... Anyway, there we go. I will put it to Leila Fazade, who's our guest today, a great actor. She is one of the stars. She plays Nat in two weeks in August. She isn't the one who's married to Danny with the funny gut. I actually think it was those moments of rather bleak, all too relatable humour that I liked about two weeks in August. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to quibble with that. No, fair enough. Not at all. I mean, I'm all, as you know now, I can't get enough of the natural yoghurt. I used to think I used to be a yoghurt refusnik. I've learnt my lesson. And has it changed your digestive tract? Well, I have to say, I literally can't.

down the stairs these days on non-bagle days and I thoroughly enjoy my Greek yogurt. You feel lighter. No. Nor am I lighter. But lighter of heart, certainly. And we shouldn't dismiss all of that kind of stuff because it is definitely true that a feeling

in your gut is an emotional feeling and that connection between the microbiome and your brain has been well and truly established. But in answer to your query, Danny, I don't think, I don't remember, I don't remember it coming up as a huge, reason the end of my marital status but let me just check back no okay actually when you think of some of the American hot dogs you know there's the American diet on the

whole if we're just honest I'm talking about people going to see the World Cup and I know it's out of reach of so vast majority of people it's so expensive and ridiculous but American food on the whole those hot dogs in very gray water yes it's gray warm water. And then put into, you know, a foot and a half long bit of carbs. Absolutely lovely. Absolutely gorgeous. Disgusting. No, come on. Whereas I'll always, I've always got time for the Greek the Greek wraparound sandwich with chips and chicken. Jiros. That's a snack. Now that's, because it also has a tomato in it usually, or a bit of a tomato. So that's legitimately healthy. Whereas the American fodder was just largely repellent, isn't it?

Okay. That's what I think. I'm sorry, it just made me think. Have you finished that email? Because I've got another one about the World Cup here. Kibab, Jane, I have. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Sarah describes herself as a long-time listener, and her sister's lived in Vancouver for over 20 years, and she's following the World Cup preparations with mild bemusement. She sent me a list, travelling around Vancouver social media, of items not allowed into any stadium, which I've attached for your amusement. I'm not sure whether it's just a Vancouver quirk

or applies across all the North American venues. But my eyes nearly fell out of my head at item number one, banned from Stadia. Corsets. Naturally, we assumed it was a parody, but no, after a quick Google, it turned out corsets are banned. It's apparently because they're considered ideal for concealing weapons. I don't know about you, but my immediate thought was that somewhere in the Great Beyond, the Pankhurst family, are absolutely delighted.

Finally, corsets are recognised as a legitimate tool of insurrection. Emilyne and Sylvia must both be thinking, took you long enough, only about 110 years late. I'm also rather amused by the image of shadowy figures in some underground bunker, lacing each other in like Scarlet O'Hara, while carefully tucking an AK-47 between the whalebone. It's about time these would-be terrorists

took a leaf out of the suffragettes playbook. Sarah, thank you. I didn't know that. And I suppose there's obviously a logic at work there. I'm really hoping, she says, that FIFA has a clearance sale of confiscated corsets at the end of the tournament. I'd like to see that too.

But I don't think you're, you aren't closely fresh going in. You're scanned, aren't you? So how would they even know that you were corseted? You must, I think at this tournament, to be honest, the last couple of times I've been to see a game in London, I have been searched. But close body search.

Yeah, with the felt up. Felt up and with the, with the, well, yeah. Which, I mean, with the, I mean, obviously I don't. And I think they have. to do it to everybody. Yeah, it's not just you. No, this is just me.

I haven't requested it. There is a, because they do it to young kids. And, you know, there are women of well into their 80s going to football matches. It does seem faintly absurd that they're frisked and then checked over. But the corset has throughout its history been a very, very clever way of smuggling stuff, hasn't it? Yeah, well, it's also, I mean, I couldn't, I've never worn one except I think once on Woman's Hour, we had an item about corsets. that will surprise you.

And I did wear one. And the discomfort was, I mean, it's, it is literally about containing you and restricting you in a way that no modern woman would tolerate, unless she's into steampunk and general lingerie-based corset work. I'm choosing my words carefully. It's pretty alien to me, all that,

but it does go on, doesn't it? Well, it's just been replaced by the Spanx pant, though, hasn't it? and some of those in their firmest variety I think are very, very cruel to your organs and your general well-being. Yeah, because everything's just... Everyone's just too kept in.

Yeah, I mean, it's like when you're sort of eight, nine months pregnant and everything you had originally is that to shift over to make room. God, I know. It's so bizarre. Yeah, my kidneys were cuddling up to a liver that they'd never met. That's what I'm very unpleasant by the end of it, Jane.

You've got bits of piping, saying hello to other bits of... Bits and bobs they didn't know anything about? Totally ridiculous. They just, nothing makes me angrier than putting shapewear on. I mean, I don't wear it now, but in the past, when I had tried to, it just makes me livid, really, really livid, because you can't really get it off. You don't want that?

No, you don't want that. So make you walk even quicker? No, I think it probably slows me down. Okay. Your turbocharged walking is a source of endless. delight. It's just incredible. You couldn't have a parrot because it would be so frightened.

Don't fall off blood. Exactly. Yeah, and Nancy gets a bit fed up with me because she's slowed down quite a lot of old age and I haven't. Come on! Right, a lot of people are upset about voice notes because we said we didn't like them and you've got very good reasons that she's setting us straight.

Yeah, so Mary says, I really sympathise with your disdain for voice notes. One exception, though, my mum has park and voice notes are a great way for her to contact her grandchildren. Could this please be an exception from your general ban? Very much so. Yes. This on AirPods and WhatsApp comes in from Rachel,

after listening to the podcast and you're both discussing phone calls and AirPods. I had to write to tell you they're both my heroes and really important to my daily life. We've always been an international travelling family, and that was fine until my daughter left for University in Scotland four years ago. it still brings tears to my eyes when I think about how much I miss her with the assistance of WhatsApp we speak and message regularly with no costs involved and just this week we chatted for over two hours while she wandered and brows the shops I received regular photos from the changing room to ask my opinion

and all the while I was able to go about my business and even cooked dinner all whilst being hands-free using my AirPods we've often walked together chatting on the AirPods albeit we are thousands of miles apart I wouldn't be without either I'm set straight on that one too. Yeah, absolutely. A little bit on eavesdropping. Mike says, my tutor on a crime writing course

suggested that eavesdropping was a great way to get creative juices flowing. My favourite conversation overheard so far was at a bus stop outside Tate Britain. Now that is... Is that the one in... That's the one on the embankment, isn't it? Yeah.

It's not the... No, because that's... Not the one on the South Bank here. That's Tate Modern. That's right. Noury your teeth. Yes, absolutely. And then there's

Tate Liverpool currently shut. But why is it shut? It's reopening quite soon. It's just being completely refurbed. Yeah, but coming again soon. That's known as Tate Liverpool. We went there together, didn't we? We did.

It's our first date. Beautiful. Now, anyway, here it is, the conversation outside Tate Britain overheard by Mike Mann. Is that what they call Polly? I'm... Mike Man or Mike, in brackets, man.

No, Mike. A man. He's a man who's emailed. As he said, Mike, man. No, this is a man talking outside tape Britain and overheard by Mike. Man. Is that what they call polyamory? Woman.

I guess it's like an affair in plain sight. Man. Doesn't his wife mind you being there at weekends? Woman. Well, we both do the washing up. I mean, I don't know how you get a crime novel out of that, Mike, but you could have a bash. I suppose you could do polyamory gone rogue.

I mean, it starts off. Everybody's quite committed and jolly, and then things go a little belly up. Perhaps the washing up rotor doesn't work out on one occasion, and words are exchanged, and it all goes, tits up from there. Hands that do dishes, but whose hands? Yes. Very good. Rachel joins us from Sydney.

That was Emma Watts's mum, wasn't it? Emma Forbes. Nanette Newman. Yeah. Gosh, one for the Lord is. No reflection on lovely Nanette and indeed Emma. But yes, there was the days when women just, we just loved washing up. No, we did. We something our mothers and grandmothers look forward to because they could have special soap all over their hands. Well, they'd gloried in it.

Real highlight. Oh dear. Rachel joins us from Sydney. After hearing the story of the dead mother-in-law, and yes, that is very much illegal, I thought you might like this lesser-ly your story of dealing with a dead body that was overheard on the tube. A woman was telling her friend

how she recently was dog sitting for some friends. The dog was rather poorly and sadly died while her friends were still overseas. Not sure what to do with a dead dog, her friends told her to take it to the vet and he'd be able to deal with it. She didn't drive and wasn't sure how she'd be able to carry the rather large and heavy dog on the tube to the vet, but she found an old suitcase and put the dog inside. At the tube station, she was struggling to carry the heavy suitcase up the stairs

when a nice young man stopped and offered to help carry it up the stairs for her. Between the two of them, they were able to lug it up, and as they did so, he asked what was inside that was making it so heavy. She didn't want to admit the truth So she lied and said it was special DJ equipment When they reached the top of the stairs He grabbed the suitcase from her and legged it down the road She never saw it again

Kind regards Yeah I want to believe that happened I think that smacks a urban myth to me Am I just being horribly deflating I was very happy to just laugh along with that one I don't know that What did you say

Eve come on join in join in I said poo-poo. Pooh. Oh, yes. Sorry. Gosh. I want to believe that that nasty thief went home, opened the case,

hoping to come across some woofing great big speakers and some double decks, and found instead a rotting dead dog. I don't think it happened. Okay. Sorry. Are you the type of person who deliberately deflates balloons as soon as the party's over?

Yeah, we didn't have very successful kids parties in my house. Do you know what, I tell you what, Fee, if there's one thing I'm grateful for every day of my life, is that I never have to host a children's party again. I really do. Oh, my God, the tension. Just horrific. Yeah, I completely agree.

I found that I had a different voice that I've never used before or since for kids parties. It was a voice that was so loud and so disciplinarian. It just came from a... completely special place. Yeah, it's a very special occasion, to be fair, so I don't blame you for having a special voice you were served for. Yeah, honestly, I get the shivers just thinking about it.

Denzel is... But also, I don't think, I don't think the kids. Oh, they don't enjoy them. They don't enjoy it. Whoever's party it is, they're absolutely to be found under the table in tears by about half-past three. Well, yes, the child who's hosting in speech marks, they can't bear it. most of the guests don't want to be there.

They're all crying and want their moms and they're balloon phobic and they don't like cheese or they like orange cheese but they don't like white cheese. Oh my God. The most successful one we ever had was Snakey Sue who brought along all of her lizards and reptiles and she was great. People were just silenced by her.

Really? I've just tried out, who is it we had, DJ? Is it Colonel Custard? God. What? I can't have it. But it was brilliant because in the end

we just used to have the parties elsewhere outsource it to a sports club or something like that You do learn If you can afford it Book a venue Yeah absolutely

Get them outside And by the way Invite everyone in the class If you can It's just easier Of course there's a lot of upset If you don't Yeah

And definitely do drop off And pick up Don't do one where All the parents stay It's just Honestly that's like The World Cup of judgment.

Why? Because some, well, some children would just stay on their mum or dad's knee, wouldn't that? I would have done as a child, for example. Then you've got, you know, about 60 people that you've got to feed as well. And I just think there can be some, that goes on that is unnecessary for the day. You just need it to be private. You have reminded me of an occasion. My former husband came along to the daughter's party at the Salvation. Army Hall and spent his time during the party

descaling the kettle. That's him. Anyway, there you go. I think he enjoyed it. Did he bring some de-scaling liquid with him? He went out to get it. Oh, okay. Was he worried about his gut microbiome? I think he might have been.

I'd always heard it was fantastic. That was his reputation. It went before him. that's not meant to happen. Poor guy. Oh, dear. Right. I've just started a new job, boasts.

Denzel in Belgium. Oh, no, he actually says, I'd just started a new job. So, well, congratulations retrospectively. And Denzel reminisces that his female boss took him out to lunch. I thought it went reasonably well. I did my best to keep the conversation flowing,

although she seems slightly distracted at times. I assumed it. was because my conversation skills weren't exactly setting the world on fire. As we left the restaurant, however, the first thing she said was, did you hear all that? What a story! I had absolutely no idea what she was talking about. It turned out that throughout her entire 40-minute lunch, two men at the next table had been discussing in remarkable detail how they were both planning to leave their wives and move in together.

My boss then proceeded to recount their conversation almost word for word, including plenty of personal details. I hadn't even noticed there was anyone sitting at the next table, let alone overheard a single sentence. The experience taught me two things. First, some people can conduct a full conversation while simultaneously monitoring everybody else's. And second, if you're discussing anything sensitive in a crowded restaurant,

never assume no one is listening. Denzel, thank you very much. Now, you don't tell us whether that happened in Belgium, where you are currently resident. And I'm not suggesting for a minute, that kind of thing is unique to Belgium. Eavesdropping happens everywhere. It really does. I think it was me that started this when I said I'd never actually eavesdropped on anything interesting.

And it does remain a bonfire of mine. And everybody seems to have had an interesting eavesdropping. Except me. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you just need to go for longer walks. Okay. Quite stern. I'll see what I can do.

Okay. I'm just trying to find there was a little one here it is about Jumpa Heary's book because I feel that we need to give us a little bit of a plug Do you have any idea

when we will discuss the book club book Eve? No, not really. Okay, thank you. Come back to us when you've given that a bit more thought just golden that girl. No, we did miss her last week I mean it was lovely to have Hannah but also Eve's come back

she's given me some travel advice. You're taking travel advice from a woman who went to the wrong Greek island Blum in hell. The blind leading the very short-sighted, really. Well, I said to Jane, if you find out anything really horrific about this place, let me know because I've got my flight booked. I'll worry about the pair of you.

I do worry about the pair of you. Honest to God. This comes in from Carla, who's a regular listener, and we always enjoy hearing from you. Such a beautiful book, Carla says, about Jumper Lahiri. I'm not usually a short story either, but this book left me wanting to know more with every. story I've bought another one of her books.

Thank you to the person who suggested it. I don't want to tread on Eve's toes here, but I'm suggesting we probably do this in about four weeks time. Perfect. Yeah, so the book is called The Interpreter of Maladies. It is by Jumper Lahiri. That's L-A-H-I-I-I. If you want to go and search for it, it's definitely available in the big secondhand book

stores. And it's definitely in paperback too. I've been reading one. a day and I think they're only about eight or nine in the book and I think they're brilliant Jane I think they're little snapshots and they definitely

I think if you go into them with the expectation that you're reading a book of course you're going to be disappointed because that's not what the genre so they are set across India and Pakistan there's quite a lot about partition and you can really I mean they're just very clever

they're superb characterisations that then tell you something about the wider world at the same time. Okay. Well, no, I know that I will enjoy them when I get to them, and I will have read them. Read them by the time. Get you reading them, love.

Yes, I'm reading them. Can I just very briefly mention, Anne, who is on her travels, and we love hearing from people who are being adventurous. I sometimes email, she does say, when I'm on my travels, I thought I'd let you know. I was listening to you last week when you talked to John Barnes,

as we travelled to just above, 80 degrees north, which put us about 600 miles from the North Pole. Now we're on an expedition cruise and the ship was able to sail into the ice field edge so that we were surrounded by the ice flow. It was unbelievable and humbling. I've included a screenshot of our location and me on our balcony. Balcony. Does that cost a little extra, doesn't it? Those are for people who've really paid attention to their icea.

Yes. Your podcast is helping me through the Wakefield. of 24 hours of daylight and I'm glad to be almost up to date well there she is she looks like she having a great time and that's where she is on the map I find that terrifying it's such it's basically looks like the edge of the earth doesn't it?

Yeah. Because it's way way north of Finland Iceland and certainly Britain I mean there's home looking rather tragic and then yeah it just look wow what a trip and fantastic normally based in County Durham but

joining us last week from Svalbard. So I hope you enjoyed it. I'd like to know more about... I've never really heard much about cruises that are cold cruises as opposed to the Mediterranean ones. I wonder what the... What is the vibe like?

Yeah. Do they have like evening, dress in the evening on... Even on those cruises? I honestly don't know. Because you have to have a big coat on you. Yeah, I'm not... I don't know.

I'm not very cruisy. Not. Stop it. There was the second part to Carla's email that I do want to include. And another thing, AI has kept my husband in work. He's a highly accomplished and specialist programmer, but after a brain hemorrhage, which caused cognitive problems,

can no longer write emails or code as he previously could. But because all of the info is in his head, AI helps him to successfully work to keep his independence and dignity, amazing, literally life-saving for him, and makes a huge difference to our lives together. So good to hear, Carl. are good to hear. We are so often wrong and it's lovely to be corrected because we have opinions and sometimes they're, well, they come from the right place but it turns out that other people

know better than us. So let us know always when you're in that position. Oh, definitely. And also we're just on the foreshore with AI. We're dipping our toes into the water and it feels cold and chilly and we don't know how far we can go out. So absolutely every type of experience with AI I think is worth discussing. But I'm really glad it's helping you. And you know, how amazing after something as huge and life-changing as that to find technology that, you know, we'll keep a bit of you afloat. I think that's just remarkable. So thank you for sharing that with us. We are Jane and Fee at times.com radio if you'd like to email us. Regular listeners will know that there's been a change in the tone of voice here, which might signal

we're heading towards the guest. Welcome, Leela, lovely to see you. Thank you for having me. Currently appearing in Under the Shadow at the Almeida Theatre in North London and one of the stars of a BBC drama. You can see it on the IPlayer two weeks in August. Now, she plays Nat, a single woman on holiday with a group of uni friends. Tensions arise and they can, let's face it, arise on holiday, whoever you're with. Nat is one of the two single members of the group defined by her fast-paced career, which collides with her holiday.

So I really enjoyed two weeks in August. Great. and it was filmed when and where, please. It was filmed last year in Malta from January to June. Right. January to June. Or maybe February to June. It's a chunk of your life, isn't it? It was a rather large chunk, yes.

I had my family fly over quite a lot. But it was also a real gift of a job. So one of those ones that you have to say yes to. And the cast, I mean, there's quite a lot of you. Yes. Don't tell, because people always say, oh, it's great. I really enjoyed working with Blah and Blah and Blah. No, I'm going to be annoying and say they were a dream cast.

and having, you know, Hugh Skinner play your best friend. I mean, what an absolute dream. He's as wonderful as you would anticipate him to be. No, we really got on, unfortunately. I'm sorry, there's no interesting anecdotes for you there. Well, we'll move on from that. Often when dramas are in very hot places, I mean, and you've already said you were there in the winter.

Yes. How do you conjure up the mood and even the smell of a really hot day in the summer when it's not hot because it's March? Yes, you have to collectively all try and remember what it is to be hot, even though you are genuinely hypothermic. We had sort of hot water bottles all over our legs and thick duvets that weren't in shot. And Damien Maloney's lips did go purple at one point

and he sort of went slightly mute and we had to really like revive him with hot drinks. So yes, it was very, very cold when we started. And then it was unbearably hot at the end. But we still all had a lovely time. We're very grateful. And Hugh Skinner appears to have a lot of bites. He does.

He has a terrible sort of allergic reaction to all the mosquito bites. So poor Hugh had to get, come into makeup that little bit earlier than the rest of us to have all these bites put on, which she was very gracious about. But yes, well, I mean, I'm also slightly allergic. I'm genuinely allergic to mosquito, but I don't know. Have either you ever had that kind of... Oh, I always get attacked by a mosquito.

Yes, and then do they blow up? Not usually, living, no. Okay, then you're lucky. Yeah, I am. I think I've been very lucky in my life. She said, gazing across at feet, just very lucky. Have you been on one of those holidays yourself where, you know, intention is great, isn't it? We're all friends. We've known each other for years, but the reality is difficult. I'm quite particular about who I go on holiday with, but I know friends who have

gone on these sort of holidays where you assume the dynamic is the same as it once was, and actually people have evolved and changed and their opinions on things are different, their children don't get on, and they do end up more drains and exhausted than when they first started. So they are they are tricky. It's like a real alchemy to get the holiday right, I think, which has, this show does examine. Yeah, they're often so much more stressful than just staying at home with your trotters up. Exactly. It's not both for them. Exactly. And the uni friends, they aren't there close, but they're not close enough to have made an effort to see each other in London outside the holiday. Exactly. They were once close when they were in their 20s and time and circumstance

has really shredded their kind of closeness and they are living under the guys, particularly Nat, who is sort of one of those people that just wants everything to always be all right and for everyone to be okay and for everyone to get on, regardless of whether it's the truth or not. And actually what you have is six sort of, I'd say relatively dislikable naval gazers who all pertain to know what they're doing and have their plans and, you know, feel they're all,

there's a little bit of self-importance which clashes with each other. Well, you can say that again. But there is an element of that when you get together with people, particularly that you were at uni with, because everybody wants to be a little bit. Yes. Oh, I'm very busy. Yes. I'm totally indispensable.

The office will be calling me. Yes, and the labelling is so dreadful. I like to do things like this. I don't know about you. And I like my life to sit like this. And who does get the big bedroom? Yes. Well, certainly not Nat, who ends up in the sort of cattle bed.

Because her friend Hugh Skinner, that's the actor's love interest, rocks up unexpectedly and she's sleeping in the kitchen. Yes, she's sleeping in the kitchen while he has a lovely time with, will, his sort of love interest, which is pretty devastating for her, but she's still not brave enough to say, this is not okay. She's still too much for people-pleaser, which is Nat's fatal flaw, which I hope people will recognise. She's not so brave, though. By the end, she finds her brave. Yeah. I think they all go on a little journey, and Nat finds her brave and her independence and questions what she actually wants in life. So for anybody who hasn't seen it,

two weeks in August, still on the eye player, we'll be there for, I think it's about 150 years, things to be only I play these days, so you've got lots of time. Is it a comedy? Is it a drama? And it's also a little bit mysterious and ethereal at times as well. I think it's both. I think it's a comedy drama that's examining, Catherine Chappers writing is clever because it's examining the subconscious, the unconscious, all the stuff that we haven't dealt with that in this case manifests with all the kind of Greek mythology. But I think there's a, we tend to want to put ourselves in very rigid boxes and say this is who I am and this is the path I've chosen and this is who I'm going to date

and this is who I'm going to be married to and actually it may not work and it's okay to admit vulnerability and failure and these characters in facing the fact that they've failed therefore grow growth comes out of vulnerability and discomfort I suppose

I mean there's just a there's a discombobulating incident in the very first episode which sort of sets the tone for the rest of the... Anyway just watch it if you haven't seen it I promise you'll enjoy two weeks in August. Can we talk a little bit about you and you went to Cambridge? I went to Oxford, yes. Oh, Oxford.

That's all right. Much of muchness. I went to Birmingham and that's why I made a mistake. No, but I mean, you know, they're similar sorts of places. I don't know. I haven't been to either of them. No. Well, my mum was very anxious about me being an actor as, you know, an Iranian mother of an only child who was relatively academic.

And I think we made a deal that if I went to an Oxford or Cambridge, then I could go to drama school. So that was as much as I... Gosh. I mean, I didn't actually really enjoy Oxford. I found it extremely difficult. What did you study? French and Italian. Gosh, okay.

What didn't you like about it? I just found it too hard. I think I was... I just wanted to have fun and I'd just on my A levels and I just wanted to live. And actually you can't live at those universities because there's too much work. So I then started to just fail. because I'd been a bigger fish in a little school, and then suddenly I was around super bright people

that knew how to discipline themselves to study. And I just, if someone doesn't tell me to do something, I find it really hard. I find self-discipline really difficult. Well, this is music to our ears, isn't it, Jay? And somebody who looked from the dreaming spires of Oxford towards Birmingham, and the university at Canterbury, and thought I'd rather be there.

No, but all my friends that were at other universities were having so much of a better time than I was. and I was miserable. And so I just, yes, as much of a blessing as it was, and it was very helpful because then I went on to tutor when I wasn't getting acting work, and that was obviously a great way of making a bit of cash. But I would say it was not everything it was cracked up to be.

It was really, it was just really, really hard. I admire your honesty, actually, because you don't hear that often enough. No. People actually saying, yes, I got in, but then frankly it was really awful. Yes, I met some of my most beloved people there, but I think I was a disappointment to my wonderful French tutor

who I remember just saying to me people would give their right arm to being, how are you just not working hard enough? And I just couldn't manage it. And I have, and not to get on the bandwagon, but I have recently had my ADHD diagnosis, and it does make a lot of sense when you hear about certain things. We were like, oh, yes, that kind of self-executive function, when you're at somewhere like Oxford,

you need to self-motivate and function without anyone telling you to. So you get distracted? Oh, I mean, beyond. And I will find a hundred different things to do rather than do the thing I'm meant to do. But when you're on set and when you're playing a part, you have to be hyper-concentrated.

But you have to go when they say action. Or when the green light goes in the theatre. You have to go. There's no sort of procrastination. You just must speak. And that's what I need is basically that amount of pressure in order to function. I really feel for you when you say you're

almost like you're embarrassed by having ADHD. Is it because so many people now... Yes, I feel like I don't want to... I feel like it's a very valid thing to have, but I also feel like it's perhaps been talked about... Not ad nauseum, because neurodiversity is a very important thing, but I feel like being diagnosed late when you look back on your life, a lot of things fall into place and make sense,

and you almost feel for that younger version of yourself going, I see, that was part of... because I lose everything and I'm extremely disorganised and went through many debit cards in my younger years just having to call that. I'm sure I had the same lady when I cancelled it at one point. I mean like, yes, I've lost it again. Yes, keys, wallets, you name it.

Yeah. You mentioned your Iranian heritage and your play, your new play, the one you're in now at the Almeida Under the Shadow is set in Tehran in the Iran-Iraq War. Yep, in the 80s, Tell us a bit more about what happens in the play. It's about a mother and her daughter living during the conflict

and her just trying to survive with her daughter, her husband's fighting and on the front line. And it's about how hard it is to parent in those circumstances, to live in conflict, whether to stay or go. And then she gets sort of haunted by this gin, this sort of malignant presence that you can read, literally or allegorically or however you want. And it's that inertia that women who can't do what they need to do

under those circumstances suffer. And the writer of the original film kind of based it on his mother. It was a horror film. It is a horror film. It's like it's horror and conflict and sorrow all kind of blended into one. And at the heart of it, it's quite a confined space with a mother and a young child. Yes. And her ambivalence towards.

being a mother and how stuck she feels and how resentful she feels of not being able to practice as a doctor because she's been politically active in the revolution, which means she's been blacklisted. So there's lots of things at play. And then she's haunted by a gym, but because she's so rational, she doesn't believe that the gin is real. And it's about her giving in and admitting, you know, how she feels about her daughter, about how there may be other forces at play. And yeah, it's just watching a woman really struggling and unraveling. And the Iran-Iraq war, I mean, so many lives were lost in that. Oh, I mean, an insane amount.

Just absolutely incredible. And here we are again. I know. And for the Iranian diaspora, what has the last period of time that, I mean, February the 28th was when it all started. What's it been like? I'd say the Iranians have a great capacity for pain and sorrow. And so I feel like we circle back to being in agony for our country that is. been brutalised either by the regime or now by this war

and the resilience of the people is just devastating and it feels so perverse to sort of watch it unfold on your phone or on television when it is your country of origin and they're speaking the language you understand and yet you can't you can do nothing but sort of post about it and talk about it so I think we all feel we felt hopeful and then we feel hopeless and you know we sit around and

share Iranian food and talk about it and hope that at some point something will shift. But I'd say currently it's a pretty bleak situation, especially with their lack of internet, which just is so devastating. I was going to ask whether you have any contact with relatives, whether you can make contact with them. I mean, I'm lucky that most of my relatives are not in Iran anymore, but those that I do know know it's incredibly patchy. And when you do speak, it's very brief. and then there's just these long periods of silence,

which is the most unnerving thing you can imagine. And from what you can gather, and I appreciate it's hard to get information, the regime is more entrenched than ever, it would seem. This has had almost no impact on them. I'd say taking on the regime in Iran is a fools. I mean, of course, we would all love to see regime change, but I don't, I think it's, yes, exactly, it's sort of, if anything, emboldened them,

which is terrifying. But who knows? It's very hard to ask him what the truth actually is of the situation because everything is being bugged and listened to and no one is actually quite sure of what information is true and what isn't. But about once a week Donald Trump announces that the peace deal is only hours away.

Of course he does. But, you know, the Strait of Hormos speaks volumes, doesn't it? And I'm just, I mean, I saw that the peace. the World Cup, they're being made to fly out like that evening. They're being flown in and I just, yeah, it's a real futile situation and it's the most beautiful, extraordinary country. Well, tell us about what it was like when you visited as a child. I mean, I'm thinking about the smells and all the food.

I mean, the smells, everything is what you would imagine. It's the most lush, beautiful gardens and warm hospitality and extraordinary piles of saffron rice and fruits and pickles. and stews and, you know, they've got such a rich heritage of literature and film. And then you've got, you know, you can ski in the morning and swim in the afternoon. It's sort of, it was utterly glorious my memories of it. But I also remember leaving the house and, you know, the religious police shouting, like, pull your headscarf up. And I was tall for my age.

And, you know, they said, why isn't she wearing a headscarf? And my mum said, well, because she's eight years old. And they said, well, it's not written on her forehead. actually needs a headscarf because after nine you need to wear a headscarf. So there was a strange divide of the deliciousness of being inside with your relatives in those gardens and walking down the beautiful streets and then also the oppression of the religious police. Yeah, I mean the headscarf and demanding an eight-year-old girl covers her out. They suffer from boredness, I think, a lot of the children.

But I think at the moment there's a lot less wearing of head. from what I see, the footage I see, ever since Maso Amini and all of those, the woman life freedom uprising, I think there is more defiance. They are being so unbelievably brave and just walking with their locks out. And I saw a video of a girl skateboarding with her hair down in the streets of Tehran. And I thought, okay, well, that's the defiance and the bravery is sort of hard to even imagine when you're living here. Yeah, it really is. I mean, actually, we should say that I know you struggle to get roles when you first, started acting. I mean, and you were

well, I mean, I can't believe it, but you were the terrorist wife. Oh, yes. Oh, God yeah. I was, please, not the children. All that kind of nonsense. And, yeah, there wasn't much casting around for the Middle Eastern look. They were sort of, yeah,

it was occasional doctors and you'd sit in a room full of vaguely brown women and go, okay, this is a little bit muddy and now there is more specificity and interest in the different types of diversity, I suppose, because Middle Eastern is quite particular. Yes. I mean, actually, in two weeks in August,

it's just simply not referenced. You're just one of the friends from university, which is right. Which it shouldn't be. And then in Under the Shadow, it's a Persian story. I think that's, isn't that the joy of, of, you know, being a Londoner who you can choose to play on heritage, and I've played Turkish, and I've played also Armenian, and I could, you know, Italian,

but, you know, also just nap from you. uni, which is like Layla from uni. Which is for you quite liberating. Yes, I think it shouldn't have to be one thing, for sure. But that's contemporary Britain, and that's exactly right, and that is how it should be. So what's next for you after the play? I'm potentially going to do a lovely television, but I haven't officially said yes yet. So I'm also hoping to have a summer holiday, because I've done, I did Arcadia before,

and now I'm doing Under the Shadow, so it'd be quite nice to just, I'd like to. to go and swim in the sea for a little bit at some point in Italy. Okay, well, well away from, because I understand that actually it was Malta playing, it was Malta playing Greece. Yes, yes, beautiful Malta, which is quite good for Greece. I don't know if you two spotted that it wasn't Greece. Well, I did, of course. Jane's very much a Greek expert.

Oh, I'm so sorry. In which case, yes, I thought it was good for Greece. Most of my body weight is made up a fetter, actually. Where in Greece do you like to go? Oh, I can't possibly say, because people will be flocking. there. It might be in private island. She's working her way round, though, whatever it is 1,673 islands. I see. How delightful. Lots of Greek salads and taramacolata. Is there anything better? I'm not sure there is, in honesty. I'm with you, a taverna with a little glass of a glass of

Ratzina and a Greek salad is... The funny thing is, she does like Maltese's as well. Thank you, Phee. Thank you very much. Love you to meet you. and the best of luck with the rest of your career which I know will be stunning. Leila Fazad and if you'd like to see it on stage the play is called Under the Shadow and it's on now at the Almeida Theatre in London and no doubt you'll be able to see her on television

very very soon as well and you can still catch her on the BBC Eye Player in the well worth your time drama two weeks in August. Is the Almeida the one that just has benches? You're stretching my knowledge. Okay. I don't know. I'm sure they're very comfortable benches.

I'm going off to buy. parrot and I may well be back tomorrow. I'm just going to leave our listeners with a fantastic piece of advice from Sue. Please only take the steering wheel in the middle of the road when driving in France when driving a left-hand vehicle. Thank you, Sue. Yes. Well, well observed, Sue. Right, Arriva Durchy.

We're back tomorrow for our big day drawing the Work World Cup sweep. So I hope you'll be able to just whiff the intoxicating... excitement in tomorrow's edition of Offair. What's the cash prize that you could win? 144 pounds. Right. Right. A cash prize.

I'd rather take the speedboat, Bob. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case.

So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.