Off Air... with Jane and Fi - School trip to pets at home (with Michael Owen)

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

We're back... slick as ever on the tech front. Fi is still away on her holibobs so Jane is joined by producer Hannah to talk big red pumpkin sculptures and the going rate for domestic rats.Plus, Jane speaks to former England Footballer Michael Owen about his new reality series, Meet the Owens, on Prime Video.You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Hannah Quinn and Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Working, yeah, I can hear it now. Are we on? We're on. Slick as ever. Welcome to Off Air with Jane and Hannah. And we're sorry we couldn't do a podcast yesterday. Hannah, can you remember why? Because I can't.

I was just swamped, Jane. You were swamped. Yeah, to be fair, Hannah and I, we've done quite a lot of work over the last 10 days or so. I know. Which is certainly not like me. You're more used to working hard. But no, I'm absolutely. No, we're naked.

Dead on my feet here. But we've got reinforcements coming, haven't we? Eve's back. She's back tomorrow. Thank God. But post holiday, she can be a bit wavy. But she can be a bit all over the place. But you know what I've realised? I just don't have that much interesting to say.

I don't have the content. I don't have the breath that you and Fee have. And so Eve needs to come with some fresh off the holiday drama for us. She has some anecdotes. So she is back tomorrow and Fee is back next Tuesday from memory. I think that's what's happening. Yeah, she's got bank... Have you not got bank holiday? Is that a bank holiday?

It's a bank holiday on Monday, yeah. Are you here? No. Oh, so we're both back on Tuesday. You're both back on Tuesday then. That's right. I've got it straight now. No Monday episode again. Sorry, everyone.

We are sorry, but bank holidays are very much a thing. I've never understood them really, but there's one. And then there's nothing, nothing at all until Christmas. No. It's just weird, isn't it? You just got to keep going. I'll tell you what, this summer in Britain, it has been... Certainly in the South, it's just been relentless.

It has. so what everybody really has. But it's kind of, you know, first thing in the morning now, it's properly, it's quite nippy, isn't it? It's autumnal. It's lovely, in my opinion. I really like that feeling. Well, growing up in Hartleypool, this is what you used to.

Sorry. Hudders be hod. Whatever. Anyway, do you know, I did some culture at the weekend at Hannah and I went to an art exhibition. You were talking about material and of course, here I am coming with some material. You didn't like it.

it there. Well, I just want to say, I want to open it up to people far more erudite and informed than me. It was the Anish Kapoor exhibition at the Hayward Gallery, which is part of the South Bank. And actually, the reason that a whole area of London is on my mind is that it's the novel by Kate Atkinson that I'm interviewing her about on Thursday. And you can hear Kate on Thursday's edition of the podcast is set around the festival of Britain, which was at the South Bank. That's when they built all that stuff at the South Bank. So this is a long-winded way of saying, if you've seen the Anish Kapoor exhibition,

let me know what you think, because I suppose I haven't forgotten it, but did I show you some of the images that? No. I mean, I'm a very lame, indeed verging on really poor photographer. My phone isn't one of the newer ones. So I took a couple of ham-fisted images of what you see in this exhibition,

and it doesn't even come close to doing it justice. But basically everything that's, you know, it's a series of sculptures. But some of them, the big one is just like a huge red pumpkin. I can't describe it any. But it's enormous, Hannah. It takes up the whole of a room and barely fits into this brutalist concrete space. It's just extraordinary. But I'm still thinking about it.

So maybe I enjoyed it more than I thought. What's wrong with pumpkin? It's getting you in the autumn north eye. Yeah, but it wasn't, I don't think it was meant to be a pumpkin. There's also a series of, what would you call them? I think, I don't know, I'm groping for the right word. I'm going to say installations, which take advantage of this type of the colour black called Vanta Black,

do you know about it? Which is really black, so black that it looks like you, the viewer, can escape into it. So everything looks. So everything looks like it could be a tunnel that you could just dive into. No, I don't like the sound of that. You don't like the sound of it. Okay.

So here I am, you see, I'm contradicting myself. Did it make more of an impression than I thought it had made at the climb? Clearly grown on here. Maybe it has. I really would love to hear from other people who've seen it and you can explain it to me and perhaps just tell me what I might have been missing here. Do you know also the people I'd love to hear from,

I've never ever heard what it's like to work in one of those art galleries as one of the people that just sits in the gallery. You know the ones I mean? They work for the gallery. They've got the polo shirt on or whatever. They're wearing a lanyard. They've got a walkie-talkie. But they just sit to make sure that nobody touches the exhibits.

What is that job like? I imagine that they meditate a lot on life. Well, or do they just look at their phones? There were a few of them, do you know? I know, but it's... That shouldn't be allowed. I think it's... Well, no, because they're in their...

long time, man. I mean, that would be another of my questions. How long are you in there for? You can't be a whole seven hours of an eight hour shift, surely. Maybe you do a couple of hours and then you swap out? I don't know. If you've ever done that job at whatever stage in your life, I'd love to hear from you.

Yeah. Well, it's making me think of something that's not related at all. Well, what is it? I was just thinking about... Have you heard this podcast? That's absolutely fine. That kind of content is absolutely fine. Go on. When I worked at Pets at home, it was during COVID. And I had to stand on the door and say, wait one second to see the bunnies

and let the other people out and now you can go in. I was like a bouncer of pets at home and I was just thinking it was very, very boring. I just wanted to be on my phone. And I see, that's not boring. That is content. I didn't know you'd worked as a bouncer at pets at home. Yeah.

Oh God, all sorts. Rollerblading rinks, golf clubs. I've been everywhere, Jane. But yeah, pets at home was particularly interesting. Okay. I haven't been to a pet to home since I went on a primary school trip. I think we're my...

To pets at who? Well, this is the funny thing. We'd actually gone somewhere else. But on the way back on the bus, and obviously a lot of children were tired and people were being sick and all the rest of it. It's classic. I went as a parent.

I wasn't a member of the primary school at the time. A parent carer. You know, there always has to be a couple of moms or dads or grannies on these school trips, so I'd volunteer for that one. And I think I can't remember which of my children it was. But on the way back, the reception teacher and her assistant

they stopped the bus for pets at home. Oh my goodness. Just to gee everyone up? Well, just to slightly, yeah, just extend the day a little bit. And the class did have a gerbil. So it kind of made sense that we'd pop off to pets at home. Or was it a hamster? I can't remember now.

We just had a rummage around pets at home and a quick dart about just so some of the kids could see all the animals and stuff. And when you said the bunnies, you were there to stop too many people crowding in to the shop. Yeah, it was just to keep. Well, everyone wanted pets, didn't they? So actually were very in demand. Oh, right.

But obviously there was the social distancing. So it was absolute carnage in that. You would have caught COVID. But then we had to put in the measures to stop people going in. But yeah, I've sold a few rats in my time. How much was a rat back then? Any idea? Like 20 quid.

20 quid. Just to remind, wow, that's a lot for a rat. Just a reminder that Gabby Roslyn, who is the presenter of The Joy of Pets on ITB. you can find that episode from last week. I think she was a very welcome guest. Tuesday, was it? I think it was Tuesday, yeah.

Yeah, she talked about rats. They're not as unpopular as you might think. No, the rats weren't actually that bad. Like when I was selling the rats, the rats would just want to climb up and sit on your shoulder because they want to dominate. And they don't want to dominate through force. They just want their head to be higher than yours,

so they try and get to the highest point. The Syrian hamsters, on the other hand, God they were awful. Why? What was there? So they were just vicious. I'd be selling them and I'd have one in my hand going oh, you're on this hamster

and then they'd bite me, poo and wee on me so one time I was trying to sell a hamster and I had a pool of blood, wheat and poo on my hand. That's not appealing, Jane. This is Hannah who doesn't think she's got any content to bring to the podcast. I mean she's just proved that that's just not true. Hannah, thank you.

We'll have more of your reminiscences when you're next back on the pod. But honestly, don't, you know, don't do yourself down. You've absolutely got the kind of content we're looking for. Michael Owen, the former England, Liverpool, Newcastle United and Manchester United Footballer is our guest today. He and his family have made one of those family reality shows. I mean, it's always a bit dangerous to do this.

I just, I do think, the idea of subjecting your family to cameras. I mean, families have done it. The royal family has done it, notably. but it can often end in trouble. I've seen a bit of this. I think I've seen about two and a half episodes of Meet the Owens. And they've got a lovely house because they train race horses. And you can imagine they live in a bucolic idyll in Cheshire.

There are four kids, mum and dad, including Michael. And what is actually quite charming about these programmes is that Michael does allow himself to be the butt of just about every joke. So I kind of hand it to him for that. But anyway, during the podcast today, Michael talks a little bit about his football career, about his racehorses, about his children, and in particular about his son James, who was diagnosed just at the age of eight, very young, with something I'd never heard of called Stargarde disease, which is a genetic eye disorder.

It actually causes progressive central vision loss, and James is now clinically blind. And it's actually, it's quite unusual to hear quite a sort of macho man, just talking about something that has obviously been a huge issue for his family and he's very, very close to James, who seems like an absolutely lovely lad. But you'll hear him in the conversation just talking about actually in many ways what a privilege it is to have a particular closeness with a son who, well, needs his parents perhaps more than most young men at his age. So that's interesting. If you think, well, what have I, why do I want to hear Michael Owen? I do think that It's worth having a listen just because you hear a different side to a professional sportsman.

He's still very competitive, though. I mean, he's really competitive about his race horses. But you can't be in that game unless you're competitive. I did actually go to the football last night, Hannah. Yes. Where? Did I know where that was? Which that was?

I don't know. I'm not into my football. No, I know. Well, I've got high hopes. No, I went to the Fulham Chelsea game because I decided. You did tell me that. Yeah, thanks. I'm sorry.

It's actually quite interesting. That only about 20% of what I say. so to my colleagues goes in. Anyway, no, it was a great entertaining game. Who won't? Well, Chelsea did. He did predict that, Michael, though, didn't it? Yes, he did. The interview was actually conducted yesterday.

Yes, thank you, yeah, he did. I'm not down in any way, being downbeat about Michael's prediction qualities, but I could have predicted that Chelsea would win as well. But it was close... A mystic guy. Coming for Mystic Mick. No. It was closer than I might have thought.

in a very entertaining game. It was as well. I did watch the Newcastle Liverpool one. Yes. Yeah, Newcastle, they had a good... They had a good old go. And Liverpool actually were very lucky on Sunday. Yeah.

Do you know if Liverpool had scored one more goal? Yes. Well, they would have won, yeah. They would have won. And my boyfriend would have won three grand. So I was very upset with your team that day, you're doing. Three grand? Yeah.

Well, we don't really encourage betting. Although we're about to hear from a racehorse train. That's a bit rich. Three grand though, but he didn't. But he didn't know. But he'd gotten all the little things right. The one thing he needed was another goal. But I guess that's quite a big thing actually, isn't it?

It is quite a significant thing, Hannah. And you've just illustrated there why gambling. Why gambling works? Well, it's lucrative for the betting companies. Because I thought we were close, but now I actually think about it. We needed to win and we didn't. Yeah, you weren't that case. No.

They've won, and you and your boyfriend haven't. But what a time you'd have had with three grand. We've had a lot of interesting. emails about careers and just how tough it is at the moment if you're coming out of education. And we did have an email last week from a listener who's, I think it was his son actually, forgive me if I've got that wrong, had a law degree. This email is anonymous. I'm at present recruiting for an entry level position paying just above the minimum wage. I've had over 130 applications. Some of the applicants have got degrees, higher degrees, or a wealth of experience.

We do not make any decisions using AI. Honestly, we're not allowed to. Quite honestly, just sifting over 130 plus applicants, and that has to be done by three of us, does take an enormous amount of time. A colleague recruiting for a slightly higher level role got over 200 applications. And that's just an illustration of what things are like out there.

I don't know which part of the country this is, but I absolutely take note of the sheer numbers of people desperate to get on the job ladder. As to your correspondent's son, I would check that he really knows the requirements of each employer that he's applying to. Some big employers even produce YouTube videos. People who haven't done their research on applying to my organisation are relying on a good CV. To be honest, I barely look at it. But they don't produce a personal statement and that is the basis of our selection. Right, well, that couldn't be clearer. The CV is one thing, yet you need one. but always, always, if you can, put more effort into the personal statement.

If there was a shortage of applicants, you might be given a chance to shine at interview, but as it is, we just have to whittle down to a manageable shortlist. My ideal would be about five. And I do think it's worth getting a job, frankly any job. You'll develop all kinds of transferable skills. Also, law does give great transferable skills, but is only directly relevant to solicitors and barristers who need a further degree and a highly competitive fields to get into.

I actually have a degree in science and got at least one job just because of a specific speciality of the degree I did and where I did it. Also, my first so-called proper job was below degree level and I only got it because I dropped in on someone to ask about another advertised role. I think that's really significant. Thank you so much, anonymous for that. sometimes your luck comes to you in a way

and at a time you just might not have expected. It is crazy, isn't it, how just one little decision. It's like what you were saying about your post box. Yeah. One little decision one day. And getting it all specific is what, there's so many people going for these jobs. It's actually scary.

It really is scary. I mean, if it's worth anything, I eventually did get into the BBC. I think I'd applied, I don't know, six, seven times. And I only got ink because somebody else dropped out. you know, I didn't get in and I remember getting the rejection letter and just, do you know what, Hannah?

I wept in the bath. No. I know. Well, at least you were already, like, in water. That's true. God, I mean, you can always find the bright side. Actually, Michael Owen says he always finds the bright side. We've got another person who's got a postbox that changed her life.

Like you, a postbox changed my life, says Rachel. In 1977, on a cold January evening, I stood at a postbox on Birmingham University campus to post an application to work at an American summer camp. I clearly remember thinking, this, this Rachel, could be the start of the rest of your life. Wow. And it was?

Well, it was. I got the job for three amazing summers, working and travelling around the US, went on to work for 18 years for the organisation which administered the exchange. As a result, I lived and worked in New York, burned the candle at both ends and the middle, travelled to all but a handful of states and made lifelong friends. I have never forgotten that postbox because it really did change my life.

It was still there when I went to the campus a decade ago, and I'm very much hoping it will be there when I visit again in September. Oh, well, send us a picture of the postbox that change your life. That would be lovely. She also says, please tell Rosie, my degree was in a... American Studies and it's never held me back. Well, it hasn't held Rosie back either, has it? No. It is quite a random degree though, isn't it? Is it? That's why I think sometimes there's so much pressure as you come out of A-levels on that day to choose the right degree. They can just

choose something you're interested in. Oh, God. Listen, it's such a bonus if you're interested. Yeah. I mean, in GHS, I wouldn't have thought of American Studies. No. But then you never know where you'll, you could end up as a lawyer. You could. This person hasn't, I don't think. But You could there. But yeah, you could. Rachel is an avid podcast listener, she says here, and she volunteers at the Cheltenham Literature Festival, so we'll give you away from the back of the Times due in October.

Well, we're looking forward to that. Have you been to Cheltenham? No, I was meant to go this show. Oh, you're not coming? No. Oh, dear. Listen, we can't have everybody there. I am on annual eve, so that's why.

But I will be there next year, too. It's pathetic sob stories. You've booked a holiday, so of course you're not going. Fee and I are going to be there October the 15th, I think, is when we're doing it. And our guest is, are we allowed to say? Yes, we are, because I've seen it, Annika Rice. That's going to be funny, because Annika is, she's just funny. She's extremely entertaining.

And if you can get down there, that would be lovely. Now, Hannah and I were riffing last week on the subject of what care home entertainment is likely to be like in 60 or 70 years' time, when, let's be honest, Hannah's generation might be occupying these establishments. This is really close to my heart, says Orla, for no other reason than I thought it was unusual to think about this stuff. I should have realised it wasn't that weird at all for listeners to off-air. Nothing's too weird for us, nothing. I am someone who since my early 30s has loved a trip down to Eastbourne, which is surely the mothership of care homes.

It is impossible to stroll through the streets around the seafront without hearing tea dance-style music. And I've always loved watching the silhouettes of the elderly couple. swaying together in the windows of various hotels. That's lovely. Actually, that is lovely. It did, however, make me and my husband wonder what we will hopefully be forced to listen to in our dotage. We decided it could quite possibly be smack my bitch up by the prodigy.

This is mainly because we used to live opposite Keith Flint, rest in peace, but also because we can't help but wonder whether that will still count as a banger when we're seriously old. Well, all I thank you. I don't, I've, I've wondered this too. Some of the more, shall we say, challenging music of some people's youth,

it's not going to be appropriate for a more genteel care home. Well, no one's going to want to listen to the, I mean, Sunwell. My auntie's karaoke song is Sean Paul. Which one? She's a grandma. I don't even know it that well. It's the one that's like,

All these women want to get me on. She loves it. Does she? All right. I don't know. Do you have her permission to talk about her in that way? No. Well, we'll keep it in.

Oh, well, let's say. Apologies, I've only emailed twice. Both times when on my way home from work drinks. Ooh, all the work drinks can be very tricky, can't they? We need some work drinks. Oh, yes, we do, actually. We probably could. Should we organise something?

Yeah, let's organise something now. It'll be April before we can get the night sorted because everybody's own in. That's the night. I've got my mobile hair dress. I can't do that night because I'm meeting in. No, let's see if we can give it a whirl. We'll try and organise something.

This is from Karen. Hello, ladies. I don't know who to address the email to because of the holiday situation. Tell me about it. Honestly, we don't know whether they're on foot or horseback, Hannah and I. But yeah, next week, things are a bit more organised. Rear your discussion about what will care homes be like in the future.

Well, I've got quite a bit of experience, having three parents and in-laws in their mid-90s. My mum is exceptionally frail to boot. Well, I know that's a load you're bearing there, Karen. I hope things are all right. We were sitting around at work last week, and we got talking about the children's programmes of the 60s, like Pinky and Perky, the singing pigs.

Then we had, you won't remember any of this, don't worry about it. Then we had the Clangas, Andy Pandy, Bill and Ben, the Flowerpot Men, the Herb Garden was a favourite, as we could all remember, the songs each character had, such as Constable Nap Week, Parsley the Lion, and deal the dog. This led us on to singing the old adverts from the 70s, such as a finger of fudge, everyone's a fruit and nutcase, double diamond works wonders, I'd like to teach the world to sing, the goodness that is milky bar, birds-eye potato waffles, the hands that do dishes, that was fairy,

crumbliest, flakiest chocolate, that was flake, shake and vac, yeah, nuts, ooh, hazel nuts, yeah, cabri take them and they cover them in chocolate, cornetto, and the list goes on. The one you've missed out there that I absolutely could still sing is Toblerone. Do you know that one? No, but I'm waiting. They take triangular chocolate from triangular trees and make triangular honey from triangular bees. That's harrowing. Yeah, and then it...

Oh, I've forgotten the rest of it. Anyway, it goes on in that vein. I get you to. And I'm pretty sure it's advertising. Toblerone. On a much, much more serious note. Oh, actually, there's a couple of serious ones here worth mentioning. Melanie and Chichester, regular correspondent, wants to know if anybody else can beat her record. I recall the discussion on the pros and cons of wearing fitness trackers to inform about exercise and sleep patterns. I wonder whether anybody else in the hive could match

my recent stats. Although I have continued wearing the tracker, I haven't really been going anywhere. A fact, unfortunately reinforced by my daily consumption of calories, used while recovering from a leg injury. Okay, well, that's your excuse. I hope your recovery continues. To my utter chagra, some days, I appear to have only reached the dizzy heights of four calories burned.

Oh, that can't be right. I think there's something wrong there because I think even just breathing you burn calories. Don't blame yourself, Melanie. Yeah, don't be hard. I'm very dubious about this calories burn thing. I really am. I just don't get it at all.

And I'm not sure it's remotely accurate. so just don't worry about it. I'm not sure I believe in calories full-star. I'm not sure really what they are either. Sue from Sidmouth, I've been a shopper all my life. I love the episode with Mary Portis, encouraged by my dad, who was a fashion buyer and then manager of a department store many years ago,

and also encouraged by my mum who loved clothes and would hide new issues of vogue so she could read the pristine copies before my sister or I got hold of them. Like Jane, I enjoy that lift you get from just getting something new and enjoying wearing it. I once discussed this with a psychologist. We were chatting about retail therapy and whether it's okay. Perhaps I was worried it was a sign of weakness. Her questions to me were,

do you wear your clothes? Can you afford them? If yes to both, what's the problem? So that's my approach. Okay, I get that. And a story of my dad, the fashion buyer store manager from when I was a teenager back in the 70s, we went shopping to a well-known, grand department store in Knightsbridge and the two assistants who were chatting to each other and ignoring us. That didn't please him. He'd have had words to say in the store he managed if he'd seen anything like that. As the staff continued to ignore us, he nipped around the counter and rang up £100 on the till. That was a lot of money in those days, as they say. So at the end of the day, they'd have had a big imbalance to work out when cashing up. It was a little bit of revenge.

That's commitment to the revenge as well. I like that. Yeah, I mean, let's just say he shouldn't have done that. But you know that, Sue and Sidmouth. But it was just his way of making a point. I do get that as well. I think when lots of those jobs are hard and long and you're dealing with people all day and people might not always be polite to you. I think especially when you've had experience doing that job, when you then see someone being rude for no reason, it's for because it's like we're all just wanting to get through the day, aren't we? We are.

And I just actually, just a quick shout at while I'm on this subject thinking about customer service, I do think whenever I go to Heathrow Airport, the Pret at Terminal 5 is normally where I get, well, because you know, there's no food off. There's no food on the planes these days. It's shocking, Hannah. You used to get full roast. Well, in my dreams. Give us tea.

Chicken, I'll be. And, yeah, it wasn't really. But I always used to look forward to it. small but I'm a small person and portions are small, it suited me it was just a little bit of novelty and something a bit unusual. Now you don't get nothing. The sandwiches are terrible as well. I don't know.

They make the sandwiches purposefully bad. What, on the planes? Yeah. Well, I've never even tried that because I go to the pret and get myself a baguette. So you mix it up when you fly in deer? No tuna. Tuna flat bread? I don't get the tuna flat bread when I'm flying, I get a baguette. Okay, so why is that?

Well, because I feel anything could happen and I might need a bit more nourishment than I get to the... Anyway, what I was actually going to say was that... I don't know how they do it, but the staff there, they are so busy. The cues are enormous and they're efficient and they're friendly. So if you know anyone who works there or you work there yourself, I've seen you and you're very good of what you do and you stay calm and God alone knows how you do it.

Because not every customer is very nice. I mean, that's the other thing about... Some of the customers are just miserable sods and they have no right to behave in the way they do. So shout out for them. I really have acted on this. I don't act on every single email we get, but Nicola in Dublin says,

I was listening to your interview with Jacqueline from the charity working in Afghanistan. That is great timing, as I'm also in the middle of reading one of the best books I've read all year. It's by Pat Mena Sabit, and it's called Good People. It's a novel about an Afghani family

who've left to live in America and the tragedy that ensues. I found it unput-downable, and getting all my chores out of the way this morning so I can set aside the rest of the day to finish it. It's a high recommend from me. I think you'd love it too. Well, on that, the strength of that, I've ordered it,

I'm going to read it and we'll talk about it, Nicola. Thank you very much for that recommendation. I know we talk, Fee and I both love reading and we talk a lot about books we've read, but we're always, always happy to hear from other people and honestly tell us what you've enjoyed because it really helps guide us to some good stuff. Michael Owen is our guest this afternoon. He was the boy wonder footballer who played for Liverpool, for Newcastle, Manchester United, Real Madrid and England, of course.

At the 1998 World Cup, he scored an unforgettable solo goal against Argentina and he was just 18. His career was plagued by injuries and he retired at the age of 33, but he hasn't lost his competitive edge. And he now trains racehorses at his manor house stables in Cheshire. If you're under 25 and don't really have much interest in football, you might not know much about Michael, but you probably will know his eldest child, Gemma, a TV presenter and a recent Love Island contestant. Gemma did acknowledge on that programme

that her dad's reputation is frankly that he's a little bit dull. Gemma's star quality, though, is one of the reasons the family has landed a reality TV series. It's called Meet the Owens, and it starts on Amazon Prime this Friday. Michael is working not just as a racehorse trainer but as a football pundit too and he was at the Newcastle Liverpool game on Sunday. Well it started obviously on a well

a positive of a sad note with Kevin Keegan and the events there before the game Newcastle did an amazing tribute, tasteful tribute and of course both teams. With Kevin being such a superstar at both teams both sets of supporters created an amazing atmosphere. And I think almost that the result was fitting.

You know, Kevin probably would have wanted an entertaining game. He probably would have wanted a draw. And that's what happened. In terms of the game itself, I think it was probably disappointing for Liverpool, although they would be relieved to get a point in the end. They didn't play particularly well. They'll want to improve a lot. I think there'll be a few signings, to be honest,

between now and the transfer window for Liverpool. The team still needs a little bit more surgery on it. From Newcastle's point of view, I think they'll be thrilled. You know, lots of downbeat fans maybe and feeling around the club with a lot of their players being sold off and their manager having left. But it's a new beginning and I think they played well and there's a lot of positives to take.

Yeah, I did read an article over the weekend about how there was no Scouser in the Liverpool side. And do you know what? I happened to be from Liverpool. It did occur to me that that was actually, I hadn't thought about it, but then when I read it, I thought, actually, it doesn't feel right.

Is that a problem? Well, I think it's becoming more and more prominent, really, prevalent in teams, you know, with the foreign influence that we've had over years now in the Premier League. You know, there would always be three, four, five local lads playing in virtually every team in the Premier League, you know, 20 years ago. but now it's that is well it's been it's been happening for a long time now

but when you think back to the Robbie Fowler days and then my generation with the Carragers and the Stephen Gerrards and you fast forward to the McManamemans and then fast forward to Trent Alexander Arnold in recent times yeah it's I suppose it's sad in a way but it's just the way it's not crept up on us

put it that way it's this has been happening for a long time Anyway, you're now, Michael Owen reality TV star. Was this a world that you knew very much about? Obviously, your daughter Gemma, I have to break it to you, Michael. To my younger colleagues, they didn't know you, but they do know Gemma. To be honest, I was in the I know Michael camp. I need to be clear about that. But it is a weird world, this, isn't it?

The reality TV world. Well, we've absolutely loved the process. I think right at the outset, you know, my world now is, or a large part of my world is running my business, which is a horse racing business. And I wanted to show that off, I suppose. Not many people know about it and what I've done since football,

and it's been 23 years in the making my stables. And we're having success all over the world now, and I wanted to show it off a little bit, show people what I do and things like that. But as soon as the cameras came to start filming, we got really friendly with them, and the crew were just great people. And the more and more you get relaxed around people,

the more and more you can be yourself. Well, too relaxed, maybe. Sometimes, and I'm sure you will say that when you see the documentary. But yeah, and it basically ended up. We wanted to just show everything from that point of view. The family, the family dynamic, what we do, Gemma's story, as you've just touched on what I do, etc. So it's been the most fun, honestly.

I know everybody will probably say it, but we've been filming for just over a year, and it has been a right laugh. You do, you forget the cameras are there eventually, and we've captured some great content. And I've seen the documentary, obviously, and really proud of how it's all come together. What do people think of Michael Owen, if they don't know Michael Owen?

How are you thought of? Boring, sensible, straight, etc. And I think also, I mean, my kids always say to me, Dad, everyone thinks you're boring. And I'm like, I know, I know. All my old teammates, they all laugh at me whenever they see me. It's like, oh, you're still con in the public? I'm like, no, I just, I don't know why everybody thinks,

obviously the image I give or how serious I am on the telly, or whatever it is, I don't know. I know where it's sort of stemmed from, and that's, you know, World Cup 98, when you've got two sides of the story, you've got two young, almost, yeah, could be darlings of the media. One gets sent off and one gets turned into a devil for one minute and then I get, I'm the one that scores a goal and smiley and I'm whiter than white.

And that stuck and my agent made it stick. And he wanted to cash in on, you know, put me in front of all the nice white, clean, you know. I mean, the other fellow didn't do badly, Beckham. Of course, absolutely. But that was my image almost set in stone then. And so from then on, everybody thought I was whiter than white, and it's just stuck. Which is fine, I've got no problem. But I think when people watch this, and the few people, the handful of people that have watched it so far

and been given a sneak preview, the first thing they say is, oh, my word, this is going to be just people just won't see this side of you. No. Or haven't seen this side of it. I've seen quite a few of the episodes. And do you know what, it does come across really well, and I'm not just saying this because you're in front of me, you are a close family. You do wind each other up. And as you say, that is a sign of a good family, a properly tight, loyal bunch of people. And I do admire the way you let your kids absolutely mercilessly take the extract the urine from you at every available opportunity.

I mean, talk about bringing you down to earth. Oh, awful, isn't it? Awful. It is. And that's just the dynamic. And do you know what? I was worried, not worried, but I was a little bit pessimistic in terms of how people will view it. and if they don't get it, if they don't get our hume.

And because some people will hear us bickering and swearing at each other or whatever and think, oh, they're not getting on. But actually, that is us getting on at its peak. You know, we're constantly laughing at each other and making fun of each other. And I think the way I've wanted to father them is really set the rules straight early on, give them a good foundation of being polite, of being kind, of looking after each other, of creating that family. feel, but then once they start getting to a certain age, they're young adults now. Well,

they're adults, some of them. You know, my kids are 23, 20, 18 and 16. I've done my job in many ways. And now I like them to be their own people. In fact, I've liked them to be their own people for about the last five years. And now their true characters come out and they can take the Mick out of me and all the rest of it. And I love that. And I love being centre of attention anyway. Not many people would think that. But once you watch this documentary, you'll think, oh, my word. Well, you've got three very accomplished daughters and a brilliant son as well And genuinely everybody seems like they're lovely And your wife Louise is someone you've known since primary school, is that right?

Yeah, well, infants, we were born, we're only two months And two months older than Louise, we were born I think we live nine, nine, ten doors away from each other Throughout our whole childhood Went to the same infants, same junior, same high school, same everything so we've been sort of together forever in many ways. Yeah, she does. Despairs.

Well, no, should we say she knows you, doesn't she? That's a polite way of saying, yeah, she despairs. Well, okay, you can say that. But the game you're in now, it's flat racing, isn't it, that you do at your stables? And it's in the Cheshire, isn't it? That's right. Yeah, this is a tough old business, isn't it?

And Louise makes it very clear in the documentary that you're not playing at this. You've got to make money. Yeah, or not lose money. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it is. I've got a character that sadly I can't sit still. Sadly, I like risk. And, you know, I've put virtually everything into this game, into this business. And I absolutely love what I've built. But the bigger it gets, the more risk you have to take.

And it's always flying on the edge of our pants, really. and yeah Louise has sort of turned a blind eye for many years but you know as you'll see in the documentary she loves it as well but I think she wishes that I wasn't so risky with it but I don't think there's any other way in this industry you know you can get swallowed up easily if you don't keep pushing forward it's like in football if you don't keep spending the money keep getting the best players then you will soon get relegated

and then you're in turmoil and I think you've got to speculate and I think it's the survival of the fittest and the bravest in many ways. Are you just someone who wants a high octane existence? Probably. Probably. At the very top is obviously exactly that. And you've replaced that with this. Yeah.

A high stakes game. It just gets me out of bed every day thinking it's, you know, that you're only one season away from disaster really. And the stakes are high. And we're dealing with people and, you know, and their livelihoods. And that responsibility gives me a, a real thrill as well, I guess,

employing 50 odd people and the care and attention that we've got to give to 135 horses is a huge pressure. And then after all that, you want the business to succeed as well and grow it and become one of the best around at it. And I just can't take part. I wish I could and just slowly just meander through life, but it's just not me.

I want it to be the best. And I wanted that as a footballer. and now this business I want us to be the best and we're growing gradually. We're not there, yeah. Can I ask? I mean, for those of us you don't know a lot about racing, how good are you?

Well, I always equate it to football because that's what I know. And I would say we're sort of a Brighton. We've come through the ranks. We were nothing 20 years ago, but we've come through the ranks. We're now in the big league. Actually, as of this morning,

we're 16th in the league out of however many trainers. There are 400 in the country. Okay. So we're right in the thick of it now, yeah. But there's still 15 people. 15 people ahead of us, though. That's a lot of people. Do you check that league table?

Every day. Every single day. Every day. Yeah. Yeah, see how far we're behind. And in that league table, it goes on prize money one. That's the metric that they use in terms of the league table, let's say. But there's so many other things involved in it.

You know, the ages of the horses, you know, the sex of the horses, how many your percentages. Because obviously it's an unfair game. If somebody's training 300 horses and we're training 135, well, it's going to be hard to beat them. So it is unfair from that point of view. So you can look at different metrics as well to see how successful you are and you're becoming.

So there's lots of different things. It's not just a league table of prize money. It gives you a whole host of different metrics to look at. And this is a business that you hope your son will take over at some point? Maybe. As you will see in the documentary, James has got a severe eye condition. He's clinically blind, but how he gets through life and how he works things out is quite incredible. I think it would be hopefully quite endearing to the viewer.

He loves the business side of things, but of course his eyes prevent him from doing an awful lot of things. So he wouldn't have much knowledge about the horse itself and watching the exercising and anything else like that. He loves the business and he loves the people and the owners and he's really sociable. And without seeing people, if I say, oh, John's coming today, Sarah's coming tomorrow, he will be able to say the name of the horse, the job that they do, their, you know, their kids' names, the horses pad, you know, he knows an awful lot without being able to see, obviously, very well. So he loves the business. I think the girls like the practical side of it, the horses and the,

care for the horses and they can go and race and whereas he likes to crunch the numbers and always telling me, Dad, why are you buying four bales of hay in that? Why don't you use three and you'd make an extra hundred grand a year type of thing? He's always thinking business, business, yeah. I mean, you make yourself very vulnerable

in the documentary talking about James and Louise obviously as well feels, well, as any parent would and you express a kind of almost a guilt that things have worked out for him in a way that you wouldn't have chosen. But no one ever knows what a child is going to be like or what they might

have to face. No, absolutely. I think the initial thing when he was first diagnosed as having Stargarts disease, when he was only, what, eight, nine years of age, the first natural feel, and for me anyway, was guilt. Obviously, the older he gets and the older we get, the more you can understand and you get used to it and you, you know, but yeah, it's, I'm one of those people. I'm one of those people. people that just turn every negative into a positive. I've always had that about me, whether that is a negative or a positive. I don't know. I think it's a positive. But, you know, how close we are as a family, how close I am to him, lots of things that he does and by his side, whether we go to a restaurant, I just automatically sit by him. I know he can't read a menu and I know he can't cut his dinner

properly in certain scenarios and you know so just but i don't like watching a horse race he comes racing i'll just go and find him and you know do a commentary in his ear throughout the throughout the race telling him where our horse is and how it's going and whether the whips have been drawn and you know is it going to win and you know he'll never be able to drive you know how much of a privilege is that for his father to to to sit by him and spend so much quality time when he wants to go to see his mate so he wants to he needs to he needs to you know he needs to you know he needs to needs me. And that's a lovely thing because you lose your kids. So as much as it's obviously a negative, I find all these positives in it. And of course, I hope that there's a cure. I think there will be

a cure. I want it tomorrow instead of in five, ten years. Is that a real possibility? I think so, yeah. We can do anything nowadays, literally anything. There is a cure out there. We can grow anything, stem cells and all these kinds. Obviously, there's a, legalities behind what you can and can't do, but I'm pretty certain that we could do something right now. But it might take a little bit of time for legislation and everything else like that. But no, he probably needs a new retina and, you know, you can have an implant or whatever. You know, there's so many things that could happen. But we'll see what the future holds.

But yeah, at the moment, it's a struggle, I guess. but you would never know him. He was here. You would never, ever know it. He's the smiley happiest. He laughs at himself. That hopefully comes across. He doesn't take himself seriously at all.

And he's just a son that I'm massively proud of. Yeah, well, you should be. I mean, it's a household of, not dominating figures, but formidable. Just let's say formidable. I mean, your football career was, you got off to such an early start. Everyone would remember the World Cup in 98,

the impact you had there. You were so young. Were you too young to really understand the weight of what you'd achieved? Or is that the only way to be? I mean, I don't know, just to enjoy it as a teenager and not give it too much, too much thought about what you're going through. Yeah, listen, I don't think you have a choice in many ways. You know, it's such a competitive world. It's such a competitive industry. You can't. Oh, I'm not going to try so hard. I'm not going to slow down and hope to peak at the right time. What is the right time? I mean, I had my time, whether that was good or bad for the future. I mean, certainly injuries were bad. You were unlucky with injuries, weren't you? Yeah, absolutely. But it's in my genes.

You know, my dad was a professional footballer. He was, he was suffered a lot from muscle injuries. And I don't think you can be, it's hard to be so fast and not have, you know, problems as well. My brothers and my sisters were all very, very fast and they had muscle injuries as well. but I do think what you're touching on there, being young and doing what I did early, I see it as a huge advantage. You're fearless. You know, when everything comes so easy and you're 17, 18 and you've never had a scar, you've never had a disappointment, you just keep achieving.

You can take me any. Well, you did. The country took me to the World Cup, the highest thing that you can ever do. And I thought, just give me the ball. I'll win us this World Cup that was my attitude and scored the goals in that World Cup and obviously scored one really memorable goal in that World Cup

but that was through my mindset my attitude and being young and being fearless is certainly a potent thing to have and the world that you now inhabit is full of sometimes quite snooty people do you think racing is a snobbish sport or have you been embraced

by the people who are in that environment. Or am I wrong? Is it not snobbish? Well, I think you get all walks of life and in lots of different sports. Yes, I mean, racing, let's not be it around the bush, to own horses, you need a few quid, don't you? So to have a few quid, then you tend to be either born into money

or you've got a good job or whatever it might be. However, I'm very keen and we do, is to open it up to people of all, you know, depths of pocket, let's say. we do syndicates, we do partnerships, we do racing clubs. So we try to get everybody involved. So I would say, right, yeah, I mean, it would have that side. Of course, you know, the royal family attend.

Royal Ascot and Royal Families from all over the world attend, and you've got the great and the good of the world, really. But I do think there's so many people that just love race and that wouldn't have, you know, as I say, depth of pocket, let's say. So I think it's not an unfair thing that you've said, but I do think that it's, you know, in any walk of life you get the same. If you go to a football match, you know, you can get them the great and the good that still lose their temper and act like, you know, a child.

With the, what was it, Roy Keen said, the prawn sandwiches? The prawn sandwich bagelage, yeah. Exactly. So you get it in all walks of life. Right. Who is your most famous owner? Well, we train for sort of royal families of Middle Eastern. Yeah, you know, whether it's Dubai or Abu Dhabi, Qatar. We've trained for, you know, for quite a lot of the royal families from those countries. At the moment, well, I mean, household names, Sir Alex Ferguson, of course.

He's owned horses with me for a long time. Luke Littler, the new darts champion. He's got a horse with us with his friend Stephen Bunting. We've got loads of footballers from the skulls is to the Anthony Gordon's, to the Ian Wrights, to the Steve McMannum's. Oh, they're all there? We've got loads of sporting connection. Wayne Rooney has he got a horse? Wayne Rooney had horses probably 15 years ago.

He was never really into it, but his family were, his granddad was, and Kaleen loved a day out at the races as well. So he owned for a little while, but he doesn't anymore. I'll have to get back into his ribs, actually. Yeah, you and Wayne were sort of pitted against each other. you a bit, but I think has he said that you were the best teenage player he ever saw? Is that right? Well, I was a little bit older than him, so obviously he admits it that when he was in the playground, he was trying to copy me and calling himself mine, et cetera, like we all do.

We all have heroes when we're younger, so it's nice that that happens and then, you know, Fast forward a few years and he's then in the England team with you and we're a strike partnership. Of course, I went to Manchester United. I played with him there for three years as well. So we get on great and he was a generational talent. I mean, you know, there's not many players that crop up like him. And probably myself and then him, you know, we came just after each other in many ways.

And I guess Harry Kane is top class. but he didn't come through with a bang like, let's say, Wayne and I did at that age. So, yeah, we get on great, and he's just a great guy, but a great footballer as well. Who's going to win the Premier League then? Well, Arsenal of the safe bet. I think Chelsea are the flying the ointment. No European football, new manager that I think is pretty good. The reports are good as well coming out of Chelsea.

I think the players absolutely think he's brilliant. It's San Alonzo, isn't it? Yes, they've got some new players. They've signed really well, bought really well. They've got some cracking players there anyway. There's a lot of question marks about a lot of teams in the Premier League.

Nine new managers in the Premier League this season. So a lot of question marks. You don't tend to get managerial changes of everything's rosy. So, yeah, lots of question marks. And I think that Chelsea could be the biggest danger to Arsenal. Michael Owen looking ahead to how the Premier League

might finish up this season. and yes Chelsea did look quite good last night but they've got some issues need to do something about the chap in goal I think anyway that's my assessment I know nobody asked for it but I'm just giving you my assessment interesting to meet Michael Owen Meet the Owens is on Amazon Prime

from this Friday and that's it from Hannah former bouncer at Petsar Home for now but you'd be very welcome back because you do you are very downbeat about what you have to offer and you shouldn't be you've got a lot to say. Yeah, I think just doing it the past few weeks, I do you realize, and even if you don't like people, be nice to you,

but you have a lot of energy and lots of content, which I just don't have. It's just because we're old. We don't have the energy, we do have the content. I mean, also, sometimes we repeat the content. I mean, let's just acknowledge that. I just didn't know about the pets at home stuff. It's new to me.

That is new to most people. Right, okay. Thank you, Hannah. Honestly, thank you. Hannah has worked very hard the last couple of weeks. So tomorrow our guest is Jay Rainer, food writer, food critic. He works for a BBC speech network. And that would be interesting because his book about restaurants and about food is, it's actually really interesting.

He's got some powerful stuff to say. And then on Thursday it's Kate Atkinson. And then later on today, when in fact just about now, our next assignment, Hannah, is to go down to the bowels of the building and chat to Oh, I'm excited. Miriam Marguelies. Yeah, she's back everybody. Yeah. And Miriam, never less than, I would say, excellent value.

Yeah, so we hear next week. And you'll hear that next week. Right. We'll see you tomorrow, or at least I will. Bye. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4, On Times Radio.

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