Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Sent reeling by double-decker accusations (with Meera Sodha)

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

More highlights from the Olympics stick in Jane and Fi's minds and we hope they bring you some light during this difficult week. They also cover bins (again), Beaver leaders and kindles. Plus, Jane speaks to chef Meera Sodha about her latest cookbook 'Dinner'.  Our next book club pick has been announced! 'Missing, Presumed' is by Susie Steiner.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's so hot, I've really got angry with cushions. You just think, what are cushions for? There's something really annoying about cushions. They press up against you and then he's disgusting. So, Eve and I, on the very, very short walk, which is only about 20 yards, forgive me, I'm always going to be imperial from our production area to the podcast studio we lost jane she's just gone she's gone so it's me

maybe she's having a comfort stop in which case she may be some time uh thank you very much indeed for all of your wonderful thoughts about bins. I feel that this is going to be an ongoing saga. Many people are having the same experience as Jane with the foxes just becoming cleverer and cleverer. Jane has arrived. Sometimes I wonder that you don't suffer more injuries on just a daily basis. I was just going to do this one before we settle down to our chat, because actually quite a few people in doing a catch up of the podcasts have written in about school uniforms. And I'm going to keep every single one of your school uniform things. And if and when it turns into something a little bit bigger, I will be able to get back in touch with you.

But this one's really relevant because it comes from Katrina, who says, I'm a big supporter of FISA retirement plan to campaign on the issue of school uniform. The Department of Education in Northern Ireland is currently consulting on that very issue and I'd be very grateful if you would submit a response or discuss the matter again. And you've sent us a link,

but if anybody did want to participate in that, if you just typed in ni.gov.uk and school uniform, then that would come up. I support abolishing blazers and skirts and trousers and therefore the evil of tights and the enduring short skirt issue and would have all pupils in unisex hoodies and joggers with high-vis markings

for road safety. This would also substantially reduce the cost of uniform and facilitate passing uniform to siblings. Do you agree? I completely and utterly agree, Katrina. Lots of people have got very different thoughts though, one of them being that the unisex hoodies and joggers might not help because they are a little bit too informal out in the community. But definitely keep sending all of your thoughts and details. And I've put them in a special folder. You've got a special folder? I've got a special folder, Jo.

It's a special folder. I'm going to take this incredibly seriously. No, I'm glad you've got a folder. Actually, I've been thinking about this and I'm with you. And it's made me question I mean I wore a tie for seven years at my senior school what was that about?

I don't know why was I wearing a tie? I don't know so I last wore a tie in June of 1982 what? yeah and has it influenced how you see yourself in terms of smartness i mean have you ever reached for a tie in adult life no but clearly female uniform at school was aping male dress wasn't it that must

have been how it all started um and there's another email here which is interesting from a listener called mary whose daughter is starting high school in september and so mary's in the process of buying her school uniform. It's made me think about Fee's views on school uniforms, she says. The girls from the school she'll be going to roll up their skirts at the waist, some of them to just below their pants. Now, passing one such girl the other day,

I said to my daughter, you're not allowed to roll up your skirt when you go to high school. And she said, well, why not? And I was stumped. I couldn't bring myself to say because you see it's provocative and men sexualize it why can't she wear her skirt as short as she likes and that is the issue isn't it and we've certainly i think if you've got daughters you probably have been in the same position as me and you're they're about to leave the house and you

have to tell them that they can't go out dressed like that, and they're quite young, and you have to explain to them why they can't, and the whole thing becomes incredibly fraught, and you get very angry and red in the face, and sort of on the verge of tears. But that's life, and it shouldn't be. And maybe just abolishing school uniform completely is one thing we actually could do.

Yes. It doesn't seem that difficult. It doesn't seem that difficult. And I think just the skirt thing, so that's where it all started in our household and, you know, in our discussions. The skirt thing, it's neither practical nor sensible to ask girls to wear incredibly short skirts to school and they

become incredibly short because that's how girls want to wear them there's all kinds of upskirting stuff going on there's all kinds of difficulties it's just uncomfortable it's incredibly uncomfortable for girls who have less than a perfect figure you know know, there is just really, really no need for it. And schools that don't make available a choice of wearing shorts or longer trousers, I think that's just bizarre as well, because we wouldn't say that in wider society. You're a woman, you must dress in this particular way. We've hopefully got beyond that. So, you know, that for many people, I think is the really, really difficult issue. But also, I think for young men, you know, a lot of them will never ever put a suit on after they've left school. And the brilliant teacher who wrote to us to say,

apart from anything else, it's that mourning interface between pupils and teachers that is now so difficult. So literally literally every kid who comes in you're saying take off that piece of jewellery wear your tie at a different length tuck your shirt in roll down your skirt you know you're you're asking pupils to immediately stop being themselves when they come into school and that's not great for the teachers they'd like to be able to go come on in educate yourselves the rest of the world generalization alert has on the whole given up the school uniform hasn't it or if they ever had it gosh what a good question um i honestly don't know um i think no i think some of the some of the uh private schools in europe and america are still asking you know what we're

gonna do we have to bring in the the listeners, kids to wear the blazers and the boaters and the caps and all of that. Is there anyone out there who might have a view on this or experience? France, they don't have a school uniform, do they? No. I don't think so. But I honestly don't know, so yeah. Let's go global. Let's go global.

Well, we're currently working for News UK, but hey. That's my easy greens. Oh, yes. Certainly looks hey. That's my easy greens. Oh, yes, yep. Certainly looks green. What's in that? Coconut water, cucumber, apple, spinach, pineapple, kale, lime and mint. It's a little bit like a margarita without any of the foam. It actually looks the colour of the water that they've just swum in in the Seine. Yeah. Actually, we were talking about female bodies and uniforms.

I did see the team gymnastics last night, or yesterday evening, actually. It was all ripped. It was on at a slightly odd time. I thought that could have been on later. I don't know why it was... Well, I suppose it's the Olympic timing to suit probably American TV.

I don't quite know why it was on. It was kind of 5.15 our time. Yeah, it was all right. But why is that not on at half eight at night? I don't know. The swimming was on, It was kind of 5.15 our time. Yeah, it was all right. But why is that not on at half eight at night? I don't know. The swimming was on, which is fine. But I do think the gymnastics, I mean, they always get a sellout audience at the gymnastics

and you can understand why. And it just made me think that although all the athletes are clearly brilliant, there's something about what gymnasts can do that seems to test the human form to the nth degree i mean you know i think they should get a medal just for me being able to jump onto the bar is it the bar where they do the incredible it's quite a narrow the beam the beam just for jumping on to the beam that that's a that's a sport in itself and then they they do incredible things when they're on it.

Phenomenal. I really struggle to watch the beam. I do, because you think they're going to fall off. Well, it's very narrow. It's so narrow. Yes. And obviously Simone Biles was just incredible. But I do think Britain, they were really good, and they were fourth, which is just...

There are so many British athletes coming forth in this game. I know, I know. And I think there's probably a certain amount of psychological torture in coming forth, isn't there? But they were still fantastic, the British team, as everybody was. Honestly, I think it's fantastic to be able to run really fast, I get it, but there's something truly remarkable about being able to do that with your body. I mean, essentially, they've got the same equipment as me but i i can't do really can't do a forward roll

i mean i never did a backward roll did you do that i did i quite like jim i quite like jim could you go up a rope yeah i liked it i was quite bendy so you could get up a rope yes they still have those the ropes that dangle from the... Oh, they do. And we had all that gym equipment that swung out from the side of the assembly hall and just looks like some kind of article of torture. But I was never very good at all of the big vaults

and stuff like that. I didn't like that. No. Anyway, I agree. I think their strength, the strength in every part of their body is just remarkable, isn't it? And Simone Biles, I don't think you can underestimate her resilience. I mean, that is quite a life to have lived

and then to lose it in the moment when, I mean, she just must have been keeping so much in for her to get the twisties i mean she just must have been keeping so much in uh for her to get the twisties as she called it and i'm so delighted for her that she's back and she just looked really genuinely happy last night didn't she yeah she didn't seem to be pretending to be happy i think she was really enjoying it and she's still got loads of individual events to come as well. So there'll be more of her. Just briefly, did you watch Andy Murray and Dan Evans? Yes, I did.

Oh, my word. And it was hot. And Andy and Dan, you're just adding to my suffering in the heat. It's so hot, I've really got angry with cushions. You just think, what are cushions for? There's something really annoying about cushions. They press up against you in the heat. It's disgusting. Yes, I suspect.

So it's the quarterfinals next. So presumably if they get to the semifinals, they're guaranteed a medal. That'd be right? I guess so. Yeah, because you're bronze. Yeah, you'd have to get something. Winner of the semifinals.

So that would seem to me to be the right ending. But if you want cheering up, and in this country, it has been a really horrible week. It really has. A been a really horrible week, a really, really horrible week and if you want to reassure yourself that

there are other emotions that you can feel in life, then just watch the clip of Andy and Dan celebrating after winning that match. I mean they are both Andy Murray's quite old now isn't he? He's also about a foot taller than Dan. He jumps up and down

like the toddler who's been given the chopper bike at Christmas. It is so beautiful and they just can't stop hugging each other. So, you know, they go and sit down and then they hug each other again and they go to the crowd and then they come back and hug each other again.

Imagine what would happen if they won the whole thing. Let's not go there. But honestly, it's so life-affirming. Just treat yourself to that because I think everybody, you know, we just need to reassure ourselves, actually, that it's not just darkness

in the world. Marie says, and I think this is a good idea, maybe this should be an Olympic event, could you run for a bus? As the news is dominated by the Olympics, I was reading an interview the other day with a well-known retired athlete who said he never runs these days. In fact, he couldn't run for a bus. As the news is dominated by the Olympics, I was reading an interview the other day with a well-known retired athlete who said he never runs these days. In fact, he couldn't run for a bus. Well, recently I did run for a bus. Well, when I say I ran, it was actually more like a canter. I'd like to think I was severely hampered by my Birkenstocks, but footwear aside, it was

really hard work. Everything was bouncing up and down in a quite alarming manner, including my jowls. And that was a weird sensation until the point I didn't even know that I had any. Until that point, rather, I didn't know I had any. Also, this may be an age related thing, but you are very conscious that if you were to trip and fall going down like a ton of bricks, you wouldn't be able to spring to your feet like a 20 something might. Okay, running for a bus, it is something I've done within living memory and I'm very sorry to say, Marie, although this might cheer you up, that I didn't make it, but I very nearly did. So I did that thing where I had to then pretend

that I was never running for the bus at all. Slow down and just a gentle jog. I just happened to be running near a bus stop, a completely different thing. I just don't be running near a bus stop. A completely different thing. I just don't think a London bus would stop for you anymore. I mean, they're so guided by the red routes and I can't stop here and I can't let you out there. They'd stop for a panting older woman, wouldn't they?

No, I don't think they would. Oh, OK. Shall we put it to the test? Might be different. This would be the difference between East West Kensington and Dalston. I'm on very good terms with my local bus drivers. Have you got double deckers? Of course we've got double deckers.

What do you think? Of course we've got double deckers. I always think of West London as a bit suburban. Oh God. Ouch. I'm not going to recover. It's going to take a while, that is.

The guest today is Mira Soda, by the way, who's a wonderful, wonderful cook. So more from her momentarily. I think she's got the best chicken curry recipe ever. I'll just pop that in for now. Thank you. Sarah says, I was binging on last week's podcast, so I'd been away.

I came across your episode where you discussed the disgusting habit of speaking whilst brushing your teeth. I just had to write in and thank you. I have a total phobia of seeing people on TV brushing their teeth and speaking at the same time. It's so bad that when it happens, I have to do the childlike thing, put my fingers in my ears and sing la la la. My husband thinks I'm completely mad and I can't understand why, and he can't understand why I find this so repulsive. mad and I can't understand why, and he can't understand why, I find this so repulsive. However,

I made him listen to your podcast just to prove to him that I'm not mad and there are people out there who also hate it. His response after listening was well, I suppose that just proves that there are other crazy people out there. Safety in numbers. I don't know about that, Sarah.

And she goes on to say it's when people brush their teeth and continue to speak with a mouthful of spit and then they don't spit it out but they swallow it and she's breaking out into a cold sweat just thinking about it. I hadn't thought about it in that much detail but I'm very much with you on that. That's wrong.

And did we read out the fantastic email from someone saying that nobody's ever using an electric toothbrush? No, we didn't, but we should have done. We should have done, shouldn't we? Because that's a very, very good point. And also, they're always brushing too hard. They just have no gums left, must be copious gum bleeding,

I would have thought. I would have thought so. And then they never, ever follow it with a floss. They really don't. Probably because TV drama doesn't have time for a flossing incident. Because the script must get on. What was that drama, the one on the plane? I'm still laughing about that. Hijack.

No, the one with the flight to China, the never-ending flight to China. Red Eye. Red Eye. And that had clunking great bits of script like, how are things at the CIA?

Which led you to believe that the person the individual was talking to might possibly work at the CIA. Anyway,

it was unbelievable. Still miss it. But there's no drama. Well, there is drama in my life because I'm just Olympic'd out.

I'm not watching any drama drama. I'm just watching the drama of sport. Can I hugely recommend High Country, which is the Australian drama? Yeah, I haven't revisited that. Have you not? No. I think it's... Why did you give up?

I can't remember. I think I just thought it didn't draw me in. It was all right, but I couldn't devote seven hours to it, I don't think. Oh, good Lord. Sorry. Okay. Well, I would recommend it. Okay.

I really loved it. Have you finished it? Oh, yes. Oh, very much so. I tell you what, when you do something, you finish it. I commit to it. Yes, you are a committed person. I commit to my TV box sets.

Yeah, you are. Well, I find, you know, something like that you can, I can easily do four episodes an evening. But I am doing some other things at the same time. No! I'm taking up a lot of trousers at the moment. Just so you know. Julia is

listening in Brisbane at 4am every day. She's one of our regular listeners and a very good morning to you, Julia. I'll spare you my Australian accent if you ever email in again. If you'd like to hear it, just pop that on your email too. I love the parish notices, but as an Australian listener, I was bewildered about what a beaver leader is. I do hope they find one.

I'm just not sure what that role involves now. I think we did very well. I think I was incredibly mature yesterday, which I think is a reflection of the fact that I'm now entering, I've just entered my seventh decade, and I've just decided to grow up. It worked. And it worked.

But it's come crashing down with just a little poke from Julia. Is it like brownies and scouts? Yes, it very much is, Julia. I wanted to Google, but I was worried I might get a lot of not-safe-for-work content. Kindle. Like you, I was very pro- book and dismissed many suggestions of getting a Kindle. I just like the feel of a book, I used to say, then confronted with an extended holiday where my husband would spend all day, every day scuba diving.

I realised I was going to have to pack 30 books to take to Indonesia. Very reluctantly purchased Kindle. Have never looked back. Like many late adopters to things, I'm now evangelical in my attempt to convert non-believers. Really, you won't look back. Great for reading in the middle of the night. So handy to pop in your small handbag. And it can load so many books.

I don't know. I'm still not there. No, I'm not convinced either. Even though that sounds very sensible. It's all very sensible. It's very, very sensible indeed. But there's still something about the look of a book, the feel of a sensible. It's all very sensible. It's very, very sensible indeed. But there's still something about the look of a book, the feel of a book. It's like an album and I really miss having

an album in my hand, reading the sleeve notes, seeing the artwork. Also, I quite like scribbling in a book. Yeah, well, not library books. No, no, no. Never, never, never, never. No, no. Because that's wrong. No, no, no. Never, never, never, never.

No, OK. Here's another Julia who finds herself on holiday in Southwold. We've been there, haven't we? We have. Couldn't find chips, but in the end did. And then couldn't get out, but in the end did. So, Julia, you may not escape from Southwold. Good luck trying to get out of there.

She's sitting on Southwell Beach though in what she describes as gorgeous sunshine, wondering why for a British beach holiday I bought raincoats, hats, but no beach bag and one pair of shorts. Cue an emergency dart to one of the many beach life type shops on the high street that do a roaring trade by the sea, less so anywhere else. I feel completely unprepared for UK heat. I'm used to desperately trying to hammer in the industrial-sized windbreak, finding the beach rug which has been buried in the sandstorm, and kids moaning that they're getting a free leg exfoliation from the horizontal wind and sand. No need on this holiday to tell the kids it's all character

building. Even my UK holiday adverse husband seems to be enjoying himself. We actually might do this UK holiday lark again, although I do keep reminding the family and the dog that we've been incredibly lucky to get the only week of summer in Britain this year. That is true. If you booked a holiday in the UK this week, then absolutely you're winning at life

yeah you're laughing yeah you really are anyway julia's not entirely laughing because she says she's lacking a sturdy tardis-like beach bag and wonders whether we know where there's a place she could get one no sorry she says i think one marvellous tote bags would do the job, as I can then carry all the heavy stuff the rest of the family, quotes, can't carry. I could sit on the beach with your faces in full view. Well, by the time we've got the tote bag to you, I think your holiday, unless you're staying there for a month, may be over. But, Julia, I think you're a winner. Yeah, Eve's looking on you very favourably.

Congratulations, Julia. winner. Eve's looking on you very favourably. Congratulations Julia. Next summer's British holiday will be complete with an off-air tote bag. And I think a small challenge of where can you photograph the tote bag

would be quite good as well. If you're going to a very brilliant, exotic destination, then we would like a picture of our tote bag, possibly in the local supermarket, doing something domestic. Crumpled into the boot of the car.

We don't want glorious sunsets. We don't want any kind of showing off. No, we'd like, I mean, ideally really terrible weather conditions. Yes, and we would like to be photographed in a domestic setting. Tweed by Lothric. Oh, this Tweed.

I've so many memories. I've forgotten about that. Keep it light, love the show, says Marie. Just a quick memory about retro perfumes. As a child in the 60s, I remember Tweed by Lothric was a permanent fixture on top of our toilet cistern. The box was a very distinctive black and white design, a bit like Tweed.

I thought it looked very posh and in hindsight quite out of place in a Victorian terrace in the northeast. I'm pretty sure Mam never used it as a perfume. Either she didn't like it or never had the occasion to wear it. Weirdly, though, my dad found a use for it, but not as a perfume. Let's just say it came in very handy

before air fresheners became all the rage. And this one from Claire, who says, Do you remember Anais Anais? Oh, I do. I do. That was the white bottle. It was so florally sweet. But the bottle was good.

It was beautiful. Yes, it was actually. It was a short stubby kind of one. Stubby little thing, but with rather faded flowers. Yes. Is that right? Yeah, and it was. It was all the rage.

Oh, yeah. Claire says it was Durago and Trey Sophisticated when I was 16, relaunched apparently in 2016. Also, do you remember Aquamanda? No. No, neither do I. It smelled of tangerines and immediately makes me think of hot teenage summers.

Oh, Claire. I loved it. The packaging was brown and orange. Oh, God. Sounds fabulous. And you've got your teen memories of quite something, aren't they? Sign-offs has proved to be quite a fruitful area of debate, and I think we should all adopt this one from Sam, who says,

how about this, as used by the Queen Mother, the late Queen Mother, during the war? Tinkety-tonk all fruit and down with the Nazis. You can't beat either. Well done, her. Yeah. de ton col fruit and down with the nazis you can't be either um well done her yeah final one from me from laura who says i'd like to shout out to heather fowler and friends who generously given up their time to take her southwest london guide group to scotland for an amazing week my 13 year old daughter is currently enjoying a digital and makeup detox while segueing, learning to Highland dance,

visiting Balmoral and so much more. None of it would be possible without Heather generously giving up her time and spending the last year fundraising when the accommodation fell through. Heather negotiated an alternative solution. We are very grateful and know she's making a really positive difference to our daughter. So a big thank you to Heather and you both for acknowledging these amazing volunteers.

So more of those actually throughout the summer, because there'll be so many people who are doing exactly that at the moment. And do you know what? It's relevant to a horrible news story in this country as well. And I think it would be nice to really shout out to the good people. It really would. And that does sound, I think the whole makeup and tech detox thing, so it's probably going on those sorts of holidays and now they've never been more important than they are now, actually.

So how fabulous to be sitting out in the open round of campfire, and I really mean this, by the way, I'm not being in any way fatuous, and just to, I don't know, breathe in the fresh air i completely agree all the crap because in our teenage years and those kind of trips were a cure for boredom yeah but actually now they're a cure for harm you're actually getting your young teenagers in particular away from stuff that's really harmful to them so how fantastic and just to plant those little seeds are sitting around a fire you know putting your fingers in the earth doing things that you'd never do before smelling the dawn stuff like that it stays with you forever it's giving me tingles just now thinking about it

so how fantastic and i really really hope that somebody did step up to be beaver leader because seriously i've thought about it so much. And I have thought, you know, maybe two hours up the motorway wouldn't be too much for a Wednesday evening, Jane. Would you have to wear a uniform? Well, I mean, we've come full circle, I think, probably. It's almost like this is thought out. With one of those special little ties. And didn't the Beaver leaders, definitely our Brownie leaders,

they had to wear a kind of very odd cap. It was kind of a very odd cap it was kind of a little bit like a bloomer loaf of bread on the side of their head when we went on trips remember those i wonder whether that was just down south it was near basingstoke okay right i'm still reeling from the accusation that i'm not familiar with the double decker mira soda who's a cookery writer she has a column in The Guardian at the weekend, and her writing career really took off when her first book, Made in India, was named a Book of the Year by The Times. Her latest is called Dinner, and it's really significant to her, not

just because the recipes in it are incredible, and I should say really doable, because also it marks Mira's recovery from a breakdown. She told me more about how she was feeling at the time. Unfortunately I had a breakdown in 2021 and the best way I can describe it is that I just stopped functioning. I felt incredibly lethargic one day I just couldn't get out of bed and I lost my love for not only food but life in general. I found it very difficult to be motivated. And I think, you know, the reasons for why this happened were very complicated, but it probably didn't help that I had a baby during the pandemic.

I was facing into relentless work deadlines and, you know, we had a pandemic going on. So yeah, so food, I had to step away from my Guardian column. I have a weekly Guardian column where I write vegan recipes. I stepped away from that. And I just stopped working for a bit because that's what I needed to do. You said one day, it happened, but you've already indicated that it wasn't quite that simple. It was a horrible time for everybody and I really did feel at the time that having a baby in that period of our lives would have been especially challenging what was it that do you think that really made life so tough

for you I know for so many people that having a baby during that time was really difficult. For me personally, I had a volunteer midwife, but I had a good experience with that. In hospital? In hospital. I was home 24 hours later. And like I said, I'd stepped back from work and my husband, he was at home. So actually, actually you know we could and she was this wonderful distraction uh from everything that was going on and she was healthy and she was alive and she was at home with me and so actually I don't think it was that I think that made life very difficult I think the lack of support made it very difficult but I think if I look backwards on my life and

the trajectory that I look back on and my constant need to keep on going, hit deadlines, you know, achieve, I think that my parents are immigrants and they gave me this very beautiful gift where they said, you can do anything you want with your one precious life. But also they set the bar really high with what they wanted me to achieve. And I achieved and I achieved and I achieved and I didn't stop. And I think that was a large part of why I just collapsed one day. Your parents were doing that with the very best of intentions, weren't they? They were.

I know you'd want to make that clear. Yes. But I wonder how it has governed the way you think about how you might treat younger members of your family yeah so i suppose you you know parenting is probably a bit like a pendulum you probably do it quite differently to how you were raised maybe it's interesting isn't it because there are some things that absolutely are the same and you're right there are other things that are probably totally different yes where you've rubbed up against something that didn't quite work for you.

But, yeah, I ask more questions of my children and ask them what they want to be. And I try and nurture their passions. And, you know, I haven't set any kind of expectations for them. I mean, I have to state that they're only four and seven at the moment so they're still really young have either of them got an internship at nasa not not this summer holiday um no no but i mean you sort of we're both laughing but um there are i mean i i encounter parents regularly with the most impossible ambitions for their offspring. And we, we, we kind of, we owe it to them not to limit their ambition, but equally to be gentle around the possibilities. I mean, I'm talking to myself. I don't, I don't really know what the right

approach is, to be honest. I was thinking about this just this morning as I was walking here. And I think joy has just been the key to my, to stamina. And it's, it's been the key to my stamina. And it's been the key to me coming back to food. And it's been the key to me writing this book and all the recipes in it. And when I think about my daughter, Aria, has been watching Simone Biles. And she's like, I want to be like Simone Biles. And I mean, well, could she be? um i mean she does do gymnastics but i think i think that when i think about her and gymnastics and like how to approach something like that i think always lead with joy and this isn't advice to other people it's really something that i think about like

what sustained me so it's my own personal experience with my own career and I think we all need to find that and then you know how to parent given that and so you know where is she you know she doesn't want to play the violin so I'm not going to force her to do that she really wants to go and do gymnastics she loves climbing great we'll do more of that and so just for her to encourage her to follow her joy from a young age now this book is I mean it's easy to say it's full of lovely recipes, but honestly, I need to tell people it really is. Thank you. And it means that you are, well, I imagine the fact that you've been able to do this book at all

indicates that you are now feeling stronger, more positive and back in love with food again, or is that just a too simplistic uh no I am I am very much back in love with food again and um it's it's been an incredible journey for me you know there was a real turning point when I got back into the kitchen when my husband Hugh asked me to cook for him and I promised myself that I would cook for joy and for pleasure just sorry to interrupt but was that a turning point when you really couldn't cook and wouldn't cook? Yes. And he just said, well, do something for me?

Yes, which was the equivalent of him saying, I'm struggling, please care for me. And then I ran into the kitchen and straight into the store cupboard and picked up some coconut milk, some red lentils. I keep my aromatics like lemongrass and curry leaves in the freezer drawer. And I made this. Do they keep in the freezer?

They do. Do they? They do. Okay. I believe so. And yes, especially if you strip the leaves off the curry leaves. Okay. Yeah.

And bag them quite well or Tupperware box. And I made this like creamy approximation of this Malaysian dal, this creamy, very aromatic dal. And it was a real moment for me. And I promised myself I would cook for joy after that because it was, I felt like I'd been given back the keys to the kitchen. And initially I wasn't cooking every day. I was making simple things like eggs over rice or, you know, omelets or tofu fried rice or like a kimchi and tomato spaghetti. So, you know, just like a variation on a normal tomato spaghetti. And these recipes are all in the book. So quite simple things.

And I think that, you know, the food in this book is quite simple and I've continued. So my relationship with food has changed. So I am back in love with food but um there's a lot of like one pot one pan tray bake recipes in there and um and I've realized that actually food is important but I want to connect with my friends and family can I ask you a very I hope it's not an insulting question but when I read books like yours there is so much I want to make and then there's often one ingredient that I haven't got if I'm honest that I haven't heard of would it matter if I left them out no really okay yeah I mean um I think you know recipes are there to be adapted

they're there to work for you and not the other way around and so recipes should be liberal enough I think to you know I mean depending on the recipe to be you should be able to like we've um one of the recipes in there is uh tofu fried rice yeah and it's the it's the dish that probably my family and i eat on them on a weekly basis it's like that or egg fried rice yeah because the rice is a vehicle for any vegetable that's in the vegetable drawer and any spice sesame oil soy sauce whatever you want to chuck into there and and again like we vary between eggs if we've got eggs tofu which you know the silken tofu comes in those little cardboard packs and can sit nicely in the store cupboard so um i like i love recipes like that aren't recipes like that an absolute gift because

you can do them with your eyes closed you can open the fridge and you can mirror um no i mean you really can and i can't i mean i'm just i'm just about all right if i follow a recipe but that i would never big myself up any more than that um butter beans in salsa verde happens to be the page i've got open at the moment i'm definitely going to do that that's a seems like a no-brainer uh belotti beans i think they're hugely underrated agreed um you have though also written books involved including recipes, haven't you? This happens not to be one of those books. Yes. There's a great no-cook salad, which I think would be brilliant in what is a sweltering UK tonight.

Can you just describe what's in that one? So it's got chickpeas in it. So there's chickpeas from the store cupboard. Harissa paste. Yeah, you can get that just about everywhere these days you can yeah uh cucumbers tomatoes red onion um lemon juice oil and that's pretty much it i think i've got everything i'm just you have some there's some herbs over the top of it i'm just peering over to see what i've missed this isn't a test for you by the way um coriander meat oh right yes and some olives lobbed in but but if you

haven't got exactly doesn't need mint chuck any herb in it's all fine and there are recipes for the winter too coconut braised winter greens for example there's loads of great ideas in here thank you people will want to know do this woman's children eat everything she makes or do they occasionally ask for a chicken nugget yeah of course they don't eat everything in there. Okay. But they are adventurous or not fussy? How would you describe them? So the younger one will eat everything.

The eldest one has always had a very sensitive palate. And by that, I don't want to use the word fussy, but you know. You can if you like. But can I tell you something interesting because she has self-elected to become vegetarian in November last year at the age of um six okay and uh since then I think because she took own ownership of that she's got agency in that decision she's become a much better broader eater as a result of it she's more curious because I think this is because

she's made a decision around it. So she used to come back, you know, from nursery, from school and say, just buttered pasta, please. I don't want to eat anything else. And she's really, I mean, it's either that or her turning seven and, you know, her interests have broadened. But, you know, for years I had to make two meals and put them on the table. That is Mira Sodaoda who sounds like a patient woman. Her book Dinner really is lovely. Great illustrations, some fantastic recipe ideas and it's out now. Was the one thing that your kids absolutely refused to eat in their childhood that they then flipped the switch and they can't live without it now? Actually, no. But their favourite meal was potato waffles

with baked beans and cheddar cheese. Were they waffly versatile? They were waffly versatile. Actually, I just had this policy of putting the food out and just saying, that's your dinner, and enjoy. And if you don't like it, you can have bread and butter. But I never, ever, ever made them finish food. If they didn't want to, that was the end of that.

Did it just go in the bin? Well, I just didn't... Well, actually, they ate it. Because there was absolutely no pressure on them to eat it. They ate it. If they were hungry, and if they weren't. Well, never mind. That's fine. And actually, it's one of the few areas in which I'd probably...

I think I was quite good with food with them. Top parenting tips from Lady Jane Garvey. Yes, I'll write a book about it one day please don't Jane and Fiat on radio the mothering guide not to come on a podcast thank you very much for listening as Fee indicated earlier um there are all kinds of really miserable things we could have talked about in the podcast this week but we've just decided that you can probably get that elsewhere um but we do welcome all that you can probably get that elsewhere. But we do welcome all your thoughts on everything going on. another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And you listen to this you'll understand exactly why

that's the case so you can get the radio online on dab or on the free times radio app offer is produced by eve salisbury and the executive producer is rosie cutler Thank you.