Off Air... with Jane and Fi - She's got her iced buns out (with Sally Gunnell)

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

Jane and Fi are very excited about their recent desk move - but they've just about got time to speak about general elections, Miriam Margolyes in a glacial blue silk stiff and power struggles at the top of Vogue...Sally Gunnell was the 400 metres hurdles Olympic gold medallist in Barcelona in 1992 - she joins Jane and Fi to tell them about her 'deskercise' routine.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] our instagram! @JaneandFiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. What are you eating?

One of your cashew nuts. I hear. The emergency cashew nuts. Something very important has happened behind the scenes. We've been given a new desk area, Jane. Oh, yeah, we didn't mention we have. I mean, it's of no interest to anybody except us, and we like it. Well, I think it is of interest,

because I think both you and I will sound livelier and brighter when we come to the podcast, because we've been allowed to move from where we were, which was by the recycling bins, and we've now got a view out over St Paul's Cathedral. But the very exciting thing is we've got our own drawers, haven't we? We've got drawers for the very first time. I've genuinely never had a drawer at work.

Neither have I. I've had a cubbyhole, but nothing exciting really ever happened in that. Or a locker. I once had a locker, but in a very, very difficult to reach part of the building by the garage. I thought you meant they just put it really high up just to annoy you. I actually really hate that. The place where I swim sometimes has a row of high lockers, which none of us can reach. No, I know.

Not even normal sized women can reach those. Normal sized women. But anyway, as a result of having our own drawers, we've now got fantastic snacks that we can secrete away. Don't tell, don't. You've nobody told. Matt Chorley is this. He'll be stuffing around for your nuts. I don't think he will. He's not that kind of a man, is he? He's always here.

Well, that's very true. But he does need to be here at the moment because he's on 24-hour standby for political news. I mean, it's just coming, it's coming at us from all angles at the moment, he's on 24-hour standby for political news. I mean, it's just coming at us from all angles at the moment, isn't it? I do suspect, though, that quite a few people have checked out. I really do. Do you remember when we first started here, it was just the crazed hubbub of the Liz Truss reign? And then we thought it would pipe down for a minute. It did for about ten minutes, but it's never really gone.

We've got an election. Well, it might not even be... Oh, it will be next year, won't it? It has to be next year. but it's never really gone. We've got an election. It might not even be... Oh, it will be next year, won't it? It has to be next year. It doesn't have to be within... Yeah, it has to be next year. Or perhaps in the January of 2025. Yes, no, I think it needs to be within the next 18 months.

God almighty. Let's just talk briefly about Miriam Margulies. Yeah, let's diversify from the politically pre-epic former Prime Minister. Yes, and to the absolutely, I mean, in no way connected to that remark, Miriam Margulies, who is doing a lot of publicity because she's in Vogue magazine. She's on the cover.

This is, I think, I think this, oh yes, I've got the cover in front of me. She's wearing a, is that, what do they call it? She's wearing what looks to be a glacial blue silk, stiff silk cape. And then is the word you're searching for a fascinator?

And a fascinator, a jet black fascinator. And she's had her hair in an updo. So it is amazing that she's on the front cover of Vogue and all hail to the editorial team who've made Vogue's covers really, really different over the last year or so.

It's the arrival of Edward Ennenfall, but he's on his way out, isn't he? Well, he is because there's been a struggle, a power struggle at the top of Vogue, which as far as niche power struggles go, it's probably about as niche as you can get. Although I think fondly of Edward. I never met him, but my eldest child's first job was as a waitress

in a coffee shop in West London where he was a regular and he was always very polite. Well, in that case, I mean, that's absolutely his character backed up. The thing is, once learnt that sort of fact, you can never unlearn it about somebody. So I can't unknow. So every time I see him, I think he had good manners. Shall we just return to Miriam Margulies?

Briefly. For a sec. So she's got her ice buns out. She's got some ice buns covering her bazooms in another of the photographs that are appearing. And this special edition of Vogue, which we should say, is to mark LGBTQ plus trailblazers. Yeah, so it's pride.

Yeah, it's a very good idea. Oh, yes, of course, yeah. Anyway, she's in the Mirror gossip column as well today. She tells Vogue in the interview she's given that she's writing her second autobiography. When asked why, she replied, I'm writing it because I'm being paid. Her first book sold three million copies.

That's amazing. So she says, they asked me to do it again and it's a lot of money. A quarter of a million. More than you thought. I've only earned that on a film once, she said. Which, OK, I'm going to say something that might mark me out as being somewhat ridiculous. But I'm actually surprised that she's only earned that once on a film. Because by the standards of film star salaries,

a quarter of a million quid, although ludicrous amounts of money, doesn't strike me as being that high. Well, I suppose it's because she's very rarely, I can't think of a movie in which she's been the lead. Can you? And I don't suppose a character actor can ever be paid more than a lead actor. Right, okay. But you're right, because I always imagine it's just, you know,

absolutely ridiculous, bonkers money in films, you know, right from the get-go. So am I surprised by that? I don't know. She goes on to describe the Harry Potter films in which she also starred as not Dickens. Well, most things apart from Dickens aren't Dickens. Do you think that you and I will get an opportunity to interview her again? Because we both did interview her for her first autobiography where she went on tour and we both had quite memorable experiences. Well, I got the full treatment where she ate a raw onion in front of me

and then had a wind. Whereas you did something in Edinburgh where half the bloody audience got up and left. No, no, don't exaggerate. I'm in the business to show myself exaggerations but you know it's very important. Her autobiography surprised some people in the audience because it recounted quite a lot of incidents where she had had open air oral sex experiences with men and that just wasn't what some of the audience was expecting were they not and no there was a pew because we were in an old church that just got up and left but they may have just had somewhere else to be or not realize where they were or gone to the wrong auditorium they might have done. But she was so entertaining and I have never interviewed somebody on stage

in that kind of one-on-one about a book who's got a standing ovation at the end. And the audience absolutely loved her and she was priceless. She switched something on and she was just in full showbiz locomotion with voices and everything. And I really enjoyed it. Did she do the voice that she certainly did when I interviewed her of the posh lady who was an assistant to the then Prince of Wales? Yes. That's a great, great anecdote about a weekend that Miriam Margoly spent as a house guest at Sandringham. I think it was Sandringham. It may have been Sandringham, one of them.

She was collected at Sandringham? I think it was Sandringham. It may have been Sandringham, one of them. She was collected at Sandringham Station. It was Sandringham because I do remember this, by a lady who was so terrifically posh that she didn't really speak a form of English that Miriam Markleys could recognise or understand. And I think we've sort of... I can't do it justice. You're very good.

That's more or less... You're not a weekend. You're saying not on there. Marvellous. Basically that. Yes. And that brought the house down. I was in Guildford, which is a very sophisticated place.

So, yes, I've got very fond memories of doing her too. Yeah, so let's hope, you know, let's hope she books us in. Oh, yeah, let's hope. Let's hope the money's got better as well. Oh, just kidding. Now, this is on the issue of Berlusconi, the late Italian Prime Minister, whose ludicrously elaborate state funeral was unfolding

as we did our Times Radio show this afternoon. And this is from Megan, who says, I like your podcast. Thank you for your nuanced, separate discussions about Berlusconi and the podcast The Rest Is Politics. Without wishing to turn your show into a podcast critique war, your Berlusconi discussion was very prescient, as The Rest Is Politics today lacked a female voice focusing on silly stories about free watches his links to football and the fact that he was quotes an extraordinary figure of our times all very ha ha ha very frustrating that his many crimes and comments against women were totally brushed under the carpet um yours megan thank you megan and yes

we did we were saying yesterday that, I think you said, it's just good sometimes to have two middle-aged women on radio at times like this, just to say, no, hang on. Yeah. So I was very proud of yesterday's programme because we talked quite a bit about the period story as well, didn't we? Oh, yeah. Period. Menstrual leave. Menstrual leave. That was yesterday. And because when we look at Berlusconi, the thing that we see most prominently

is the absurd amount of sex he had with incredibly young women. Yeah, it's horrible. And so that just, you know, once you put those glasses on, you can't take them off. So all of the stuff about being an incredibly wealthy man and, you know, getting away with all of these criminal convictions and all of that type of stuff, you know his his wife divorced him using the phrase i don't want to be with a man who frequents minors uh so you know it's i don't want to celebrate the political achievements of

that type of man and i think it is still rare for women to have the conversation that you have with other women in front of the microphone. So if other people are enjoying that, Jane, I think enjoying is the right word. If other people are appreciating that, then we're very grateful to hear that, actually, I think. Yes, I think the double standard is something that I think I'm most exercised by here always, because you can go back to any number of examples of female politicians being judged in ways that just seem ridiculous in contrast. Absolutely. I mean, it's ridiculous. You know, we've just we've got I think if we can't speak out about things like this and just say, hang on, let's just look at this in a slightly different way. But also you can't, you know, one week be absolutely outraged at the behaviour of older men dating younger people, even if it's not younger women, and get your absolute knickers in a twist about that.

And then ignore the fact that somebody else was doing that and just concentrate on how wonderful their bank balance was. What a character. Bunga, bunga, bunga. Right. It's a shame they didn't ask us to pay tribute, actually. We've been there, with knobs on. It's room for all thoughts.

Jo sends this. Dear Jane and Fi, I've been enjoying your discussions about the Ken doll and his moulded man parts. Did you know that ladies can have a Ken doll too? After mastectomy, some women opt for a D.E.P. reconstruction, which uses fat from your abdomen to replace the tissue lost in the breast. They cut you across the middle, chop a bit out, and then pull up the bottom and top of your torso together and sew you back up.

This results in your pubic mound moving higher up your body compared to where it would naturally be. Us cancer survivors call this effect the Ken doll, and some have it liposuction to minimise the effect, photo-attached for illustrative purposes. Thank you for the many hours you've kept me company on my runs. Well, Jo, thank you for the image. It's of a doll, don't worry.

It's not of anything else. But I'd never heard of that before. And sometimes, don't you love it when you're allowed a little peek into somebody else's community? So for cancer survivors to have managed to be quite kind of funny about something that has happened to them, that must actually feel so distressing and complicated sometimes too. And painful, frankly, is just wonderful.

So thank you for that, Jo. And obviously, Jane and I both hope that you're really well. This is from Debs, who wants to compliment you on uh on your quotes handling of Sarah Elliot oh god oh well we've had some complaints about that interview too we've had she was a republican spokesperson wasn't she and the thing is we we need to understand that point of view because I do feel that it's hard for us to understand but that shouldn't stop us trying I mean it really shouldn't and we should say Sarah I'm sure will come on the programme again. My understanding is that she's perfectly happy to come on again. So I hope she does. Anyway, I wish we as a

country could see how different we really are, says Debs. If they didn't speak English, American, I think we would see them so differently. It's just my humble opinion. Thank you, Debs. But we did have, yeah, we did, I've seen one email saying that we should never have invited her on if we didn't want to hear what she's got to say. But sometimes when people say things that are so ridiculous. Well, I think the comparison, so just in brief, what Sarah Elliott was trying to do was to completely equate the, is it 37 charges that Donald Trump is currently facing in a court in Florida with regard to his taking of secret documents to the emails that

Hillary Clinton had held on a personal email account rather than kept within the email account that should have been given by the US government I couldn't see that as being directly analogous. And there were also some comments made about Hunter Biden and his behaviour, which is well documented. Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks Hunter Biden is a man without blemish. But Hunter Biden's not running for president. His father is.

So anyway, it's a slightly complicated interview, which did contain some challenges, but it did also get quite heated. So if you want to go back and listen to it, it was in yesterday's programme. Sally is in a lovely place. Mosel Bay, I think that's the right pronunciation, in South Africa. Good day. Am I the only person driven mad by the use of X when the chronology suggests otherwise? For example, Jane said she once left her newborn with her ex-mother-in-law. Was the lady at that point actually an ex-mother-in-law or a current mother-in-law? If somebody says I went on holiday with my ex-husband, do they mean that they'd vacationed before or after their divorce? I mean, this is a good point, Sally, to be fair.

Would one say I went on holiday with my late husband? Actually, I'll answer that myself, she says. An overnight guest of mine did show up once with her wife's ashes on the front seat. Right. Why on earth don't we use phrases like my then mother-in-law or my husband at the time? I think Sally's right. I'm sure Sally's right.

I've never given it that much thought. I mean, the other option, Jane, you know full well, is just never mention them at all. Never mention them at all. Never mention them. I'm quite fond of my then mother-in-law. What about the husbands? She's certainly a character.

Charlotte from Deal in Kent, thank you very much indeed for all of your thoughts about attending the Beyoncé gig at Tottenham Stadium. And Charlotte has really just wanted to write to say how absolutely fantastic and joyful Beyonce's whole music and show was. Just a little bit, I'll read you. The audience was largely women and a large proportion were black. And I really felt the audience's joy for the music and their affection for an artist at the top of their game. Beyonce's music means so much to so many it was a thrill to be part of such a large enraptured crowd. Afterwards my boyfriend joked he'd like to get into football

for a similar communal sensation. Since the show I've been reliving my experience through other fans videos on Instagram where people are flaunting their outfits, dance moves and capturing moments from the dazzling show and actually all around North London because Beyonce I think did a couple of nights, didn't she, at Tottenham? Was she at Wembley as well or just Tottenham? No, I think Tottenham. Just Tottenham.

Well, I did see quite a few people on their way to Beyonce gigs just in the most fantastic sequined outfits with sequined cowboy hats and feather bows a go-go. Harry Styles is on at Wembley this weekend. And you just catch a glimpse of people who are just living the dream for a couple of hours. So Charlotte, thank you very much indeed for sharing that with us. And just if that was off the back of my eulogising about the Coldplay gig can we just say

hello to Rosie who's been back in touch Chris Martin's sister we won't read out your email you've asked us not to but it's lovely to know that you're okay and still listening to the podcast from time to time and thank you very much for letting us know and also, Rosie just wanted to mention another charity that's been set up by parents who have lost a child. This one is called Elizabeth.org. And it's been set up by a friend of hers, Nick. And it's after the loss of daughter Elizabeth. And we will look into that. I think we want to talk about child bereavement a little bit more.

that I think we want to talk about child bereavement a little bit more and this is off the back of an interview we did with the wonderful Olivia Chappell whose son Horatio had died and she has continued his dream and set up a charity which makes gardens doesn't it for spinal injury that's right centers there is I think there still is a charity called compassionate friends which was set up to help people who had lost a child rather than a partner or another sort of bereavement, and I'm pretty sure it's still going. I mean, I think... We need to check that probably, but I think it is still going,

and I know it used to do brilliant work to try to... And funny enough, it's not funny at all, but during the programme today, there was coverage on the news channels, because we have obviously the TV screens on in the studio, of the vigil at Nottingham University and the service that was held there by, amongst others, the university chaplain, in memory of those two young students who were killed the other night, a very early morning, wasn't it on Tuesday and it's it's so devastating because you just see a lot a lot of young people utterly destroyed and the parents of the students were there as well

and you know I mean it just it's it's sort of so awful to think that on Monday night they just went for a night out yeah and I we should say as well I mean that there was a a middle-aged man a man who was a school caretaker who also lost his life that night. So a horrible, horrible set of circumstances. But I think there are, I mean, it's so obvious, isn't it, that sometimes you want to move away from tragedy and you just can't cope with talking about something and everybody has those kind of days or whatever.

But I think you're right that if you lose somebody when you're very young, a contemporary of yours, you know, in your teenage years where your entire world is about your future, that's what's so very difficult, isn't it? But watching those teenagers now thinking you will live with that feeling of loss. Every step that you take, every new thing that you do, there is a sense that somebody can't come with you on that journey. And it's just different when you lose people you know in their 60s 70s and 80s doesn't mean it's not a

tragedy no but it is very different very very different and i think we are not always very good at recognizing that and really talking about it can i just say it's nick and nancy who set up this charity elizabeth.org so we may well that. And thank you for getting back in touch. I wanted to mention this from a GP. We won't mention her name. But she says that I was listening to you talk the other week about the rise in adults seeking diagnosis for autism and ADHD. I've been a GP for 13 years and I don't think I'd ever referred anyone for this until a year or two ago. Now it's every other week. After a particularly gruelling week recently, three out of my last five patients on a Friday afternoon wanted a referral for autism or ADHD. Now while I appreciate for some this

diagnosis and possible medication can be absolutely life-changing, Others I am sceptical about. People who've had no issues at school or at university and are actually doing well in high-performing jobs are seeking referrals, and I do find it questionable. The wait for an assessment is currently around two years, and I can only see that getting longer. I think I'm also concerned by the over-medicalisation of what can be quite normal character traits. It's especially troubling that I was spending hours of my Friday afternoon filling in forms and scoring charts, while patients like your listener with bowel symptoms can't get an appointment. Well done if you've made it to the end of my rant, she says.

On a lighter note, I believe that the chimes at Tokyo metro stations are to alert you to your stop if you're asleep. You become in tune to the chime you need and just wake up. Sounds crazy, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Interesting. That is interesting. Thank you very much for that. And there'll be other GPs, I'm sure, who take a different view or haven't had that experience. But, you know, if you have, do let us know.

I meant to say the other day that this subway, the Tokyo Metro Station experience reminds me of a holiday my sister and I took to what had just become St Petersburg in the early 1990s. And we set off one afternoon on a journey on public transport on the train because they've got these brilliant, you've been, haven't you, these incredible Metro Stations. Of course, what we hadn't, the've been, haven't you, these incredible metro stations. Of course, what we hadn't, the Garvey sisters hadn't sort of plumbed into the fact that we don't speak the language and couldn't see what station we were at. Because of the different writing.

For some unknown reason, foreigners didn't, and they certainly didn't then, have the English translation of the station. So we realised early enough on in the journey just to do it by numbers and then come straight back. Do it by numbers and come straight back? Count the stations? Count the stations. Oh my god, you have to stay very awake for that.

We did really wish to do it by three stations because we just went, oh, go, go, go. Oh, it was pathetic. Anyway, there we go. I was only young-ish. So they must have to play the jingles in Japan very loud if they're going to break through a commuter's doze. You're probably... You see, going home last night on the train, I noticed the number... It was so hot. I noticed the number of people asleep.

Now, I just don't get that. I appreciate if you've had a... God, you could have been on all sorts of, I don't know, day and night shift. You could be completely knackered. But I always have the temptation just to poke them occasionally and say, Yeah, is this your stop? Do you want to get off or are you sort of here for the duration?

But anyway, I don't blame anyone for sort of nodding off. But some people look to be in really, really deep sleep, contented sleep. Do you think maybe you could start a very sensible kind of sticker campaign where you could just stick the station, a little sticker with the station on your front and then someone could notice that you needed to get off at Elephant and Castle because it said Elephant and Castle on your sticker. That would be helpful, wouldn't it? You'd need like washable, reusable stickers, wouldn't you? Yes. wouldn't it? Yes, but you'd need like washable, reusable stickers wouldn't you? Yes, I mean or you could just have a roll of stickers and then you just

keep it with you and then you just write the name down Oh I see Yes, you could just have a roll of white stickers which are easily

bought at Poundland do them Yes, I think you should start that as your contribution to society I think that would be very, very good

Right I'm still going to carry on trying to patent my truck of wee One day it will become a thing Your truck'm still going to carry on trying to patent my truck of wee. One day it will become a thing. Your truck of wee, just remind us of this great idea. The truck of wee is because there are just never enough ladies' stalls available, especially in the old-fashioned theatre venues across London

and other major towns and cities. So I think that somebody could develop a truck that just has loads and loads of ladies toilets on board. Drives around. Drives around, parks up in the interval, jobs are good. Sounds a good idea. Takes all the wee off. If you wouldn't, you couldn't call it She-Wee, could you? Is there a sort of punny title involving theatricals, thespians, shows, play we. Play we? Show we.

Well, I just wanted to call it the fee we. Right. Well, we're going to get some advice on exercise and just what life is like post an Olympic gold medal in a moment or two from no lesser person than Sally Gunnell. Stick with it. Can I just do this email from Cathy in Memphis? Yes, I've got to get to the theatre because you just mentioned it and it's reminded me. Oh, OK don't worry uh i lost my mother when i was 25

and she was 52. i'm really sorry about that kathy a few years later i started attending her high school reunion weekends with her best friend we shared breath mints and heard so many fun stories i do think actually taking a breath mint to a reunion sounds like a very, very good piece of advice. My question for anyone I met was, can you tell me ways my mother loved life? Afterwards, my mother's friend and I met in her hotel room for a thorough debrief and lots of laughs. As the group got older, they held reunions every year,

the last being the year COVID started. And these reunions are my very best memories. What a lovely thing to do. That is a great idea. What a clever thing to do. And to just keep memories alive, learn new memories, be in touch with people. Absolutely brilliant.

I'd never, ever thought of doing that. But more people should. That's excellent advice. Sally Gunnell in a moment. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11.

And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Thank you very much, Kate. Thank you for your contribution. Kate's in charge tonight and she's just suggested that your truck of wee should be called the wee-etter. that your truck of wee should be called? The wee-etter. OK, it was good. I think just call it what it is.

Just call it the truck of wee. Toilet. Toilet. Right, let's move on. Let's try to just illuminate a few lives here and perhaps encourage people to take up or continue with exercise in what is loosely speaking later life, although I fully intend to live to be 190.

Sally Gunnell was the 400 metres hurdles Olympic gold medalist for Britain in Barcelona back in 1992. She's now 56, she's still extraordinarily fit and she stays fit by moving at her desk amongst other things. So we dragged her into our studio earlier to show us something she calls deskercise. But she did start by telling us what exercise means to her now. Yeah, it's still an important part of my life. I would say it's more about my sanity. I shout less at the kids, you know what I mean? All very slow. But I still do exercise, you know, I do something most days, but I vary it. So I do go for a run, but it's usually with the dog and we have a little stop when we get to the hill

and things like that, which people find a bit strange. You're like, do you not still go over hurdles? They're like, no, definitely not. The speed goes, but I'll get into the gym. I do a bit of stretching, a bit of Pilates. Yeah, whatever I feel like doing, which is the nicest thing isn't it and what happens to your head if you don't exercise um I get a bit grumpy I do get a bit grumpy um yeah if I haven't done anything you know sometimes it happens for you know two or three days and I do get that little like I've got to go and do

something and I just get a bit edgy um but it doesn't have to be much I can do something in 10 minutes you know what I mean so but and I feel better from it so I guess it's that natural endorphins isn't it that you know exercise does create and helps and you know and it is it is it's about you know just being strong in the, yeah, it puts me in a better place. Can I just ask, and I hope this isn't negative, but I'm really interested in the toll that that really tough training that you did earlier in your life has taken on you now as you've got older. Yeah, yeah. Is your body impacted? I definitely have some aches and pains.

I definitely have some aches and pains. You know, I've got my back from hurdling all those years, top of my leg for throwing that leg out, if you know what I mean, across that hurdle. So I have definitely got some issues from that. But it still amazes me that, you know, yeah, the intensity of that training you had twice a day, you know, every day more or less,

that I can still, you know, my hips are fine, my knees are okay, I'm touching wood here. But I can still do what I can do. But a lot of what I do is about, you know, preventative things, because I don't know what's going to happen to the body later in life, you know, mid mid 50s and how so I don't know what you know, the future, whether my hips are going to be okay or whatever so I do try and keep all my muscles and my ligaments and flexibility because I just think you know I've got to be prepared almost so it's the same sort of you know mindset I probably had when I run but it's much more about wanting to keep myself as mobile and as I do age. And do you look at the younger athletes now who I think think, it would be fair to say,

are much more surrounded by science, aren't they? And information, nutrition, mental health awareness, all of the rest of it. Do you look upon that, I don't know, with a sense of mild envy? Because you wouldn't have had any of that type of stuff around. No, it's really interesting because I actually listened in with my husband,

who's a coach to top athletes. And he's talking to the physiologist and it's all about legs length and this. And if they do that in the race and, you know, and just, you know, there's so much science behind it. And there was part of me going, what could I have done? But also there's something about, you know, it does complicate things almost, there's too many things to think about. So I don't know, I'm a bit mixed, because you had to learn and adapt, and you had to try things. But then I go, if you were looking at it, and I guess more to the recovery. So when you got injured, you were in having a scan the next day, we were sort of

waiting a few weeks or months before you'd have the scan. And then, you know, I'd have six months off before, you know, they found out what was wrong in those. So I think that would really have helped. And yeah, I guess the sports science would have done but there was something about it wasn't about simplicity and not being complicated. And at the end of the day, having the skills to make your own decisions at time and working it out yourself and being able to react without having to think. So a bit of both, really.

Can I just ask, what is the best bit about winning a gold medal? Is it the fact that you've got it in your locker forever as a brilliant memory to revisit in tougher times or what is it? I think it's about what what the body can do and what the mind can do and you know I only I ever run in those days because I was challenged by how good could I get and um and you know and that wasn't just physically but the mental side of it as well and And I think when you do actually achieve, it's a bit of a shock. It's a bit of a, wow, how did I actually do that? Because, and it's not until you come away from the sport, you realise how hard it is and how many things you have to get right on those days.

And you're a little bit like, wow, how did I do that? So even now, I'm still sort of quite shocked so I think it's about that um and I think it's you know 30 years on people still remember that moment you sort of feel like you'd have an achievement and there's always something on because there's something next and what is that and you'd get forgotten and you're only ever judged as your last race but actually winning that gold medal you're not just judged by that last race. You know, it's part of who you are for the next 30 years. You're absolutely in all of our collective memories, which is an astonishing thing.

It's crazy. And I guess then, you know, there was only five people that won those gold medals and I was the only woman. So that's a nice thing. People saying where they were on that night in some dodgy bars and holidays. I was at home watching you.

But that was in the bad old days when Britain didn't win many medals. No. I guess it kind of paid off for the few of you that did because you stood out, I suppose. I think we did. We stood out. But, you know, after that, because we did so bad in Atlanta in 96, you know, lottery money did come in and the science behind it.

And they all had sports psychologists and things like that. And that's why as a nation, they recognise how important it is to have funding and support. And I'm all for that, for sure. It has made a big difference. But yeah, I think I was lucky to have my little niche moment at that time. Well, we can't put it off, can we? No, we can't.

We can't. We're going to have to talk about desk size now, Sally. I know. It's an interesting one, isn't it? So I do a lot of sort of corporate wellbeing now. And because everybody's doing this hybrid work and, you know, people are almost in some way saying that they're just stuck at their computer

because they don't allow themselves to get up, move around. So my sort of thing is like, well, you can still do exercise at your desk. So this is what you're going to workshop with us. Yes, it's going to be interesting on the radio. A little bit tricky, but we'll try and cope. A little bit tricky, but we'll try and cope. So if you are in an office like ours, you're probably on a swivel chair.

I would have thought immediately, don't try and exercise on that. That would be a bit of a challenge. It could end up ice skating all over the place. Exactly. So you're best to hold on to, well, to get a stable chair would be good or to put the brakes on at least or whatever else. But it's amazing how

you know how you can move right even if you've got a very small area isn't it so i would just say the first thing to do is to put one leg out in front of you yeah try and lean forward as much as you can and we're trying to speak to the mic here at the same time but just hold those stretches don't try and keep pushing it so we we'll just hold it in that position. Do we have to reach down? You can reach down as far as you can, but keep nice and straight. Don't twist the body too much. You can move your foot up and down as well.

So we're just trying to get the blood pumping around a little bit. Okay, and then the other leg. We carry on this conversation under the desk, can't we? We disappear under the desk. So reaching forward? I did. Disappear under the desk. So, reaching forward. That's nice, actually. Legs forward. That's it.

Gosh, I'm not as flexible as I might have hoped. And then you can reach up, arms up. And across. So, that's arms up over the head. Over to the head and reach to the left and then to the other way. We're all in our nice summer dresses doing this. So, you can do a couple of those. We really should, I think what's a very good one is to do squats. So you want to be able to stand up. Yeah. In front of your chair and then literally hold your hands

out and then you're just going to squat down. So your bum almost touches. That's it. And are you meant to keep your knees together? Keep your knees so your feet are slightly out. Okay. Yeah, and then keep that as though you're just about to touch your bottom. So nice straight back. You can lean forward a little bit. But use your core.

So you're using your core as well. And just up and down. There you go. You get your heart rate going. You get your legs. So many knee problems are because you've got weak thighs so i always say to you you can just do a nice simple squat we've got no weights and you're at your desk this is very nice this is very nice there you go oh i've had

an injury so there you go um do you recommend weights actually because you can go you can go a bit wrong with weights if you're not sure what you're doing um as i've aged definitely and i'm experimenting with them and i'm doing sort of three weight sessions a week because i cannot believe how our muscles just fall off um as we get older and of course it's all sorts of you know hormone reasons and everything like that and that's just me that you know probably does quite a lot of exercise before. I was doing quite a lot of cardio, but my muscles are just gone. And I was having bad back problems. And I've just experimenting. And I think with weight, you need a good program.

You need somebody that helps you. You need to do it correctly. They don't have to be heavy. But the difference is incredible. You just feel strong as a person. You know, you just, I don't know, my aches and pains have gone, which I think is incredible. You just feel strong as a person. You know, you just, I don't know, my aches and pains have gone, which I think is brilliant. And yeah, I think it is so much more the way forward of how people are thinking. And it's great for your metabolism. So, you know, if you are trying to lose weight as well, so you kickstart the metabolism so that the fat burns as

well. So it's not always about going out and running or cardio as well. You you kickstart the metabolism so that the fat burns as well. So it's not always about going out and running or cardio as well. You know, you can get that weight loss from doing weights as well. And it's all over, you know, you can get, you can work every muscle because if you have got problem areas and often, you know, for so many of us, it's our tummy area. You can't just spot and try and lose that area. You've got to work the whole area to try and you know finally get to that sort of tummy area which is my problem after three kids and whatever else so um yeah and that's and weight training is a very good or resistance you can use bands you can just you can just use your own body weight you don't have to always have the weight

and that's what the squats are exactly you're it? Exactly. You're using your own bodyweight. And there's so much. You're going to press-ups against a wall as you're putting the kettle on in the morning. You know, some little tri-steps for your little baggy bits. We could do that in the news bulletin, Jane, couldn't we? A couple of press-ups against the wall. We could. It wouldn't be the first time in my case. Can I ask, can you still, could you do the hurdles? Probably not. I think I probably, well, could you do the hurdles? Probably not. I think I'd probably, well, I could do a few little drills.

I'd probably hurt the hamstring. It just goes and it just wouldn't look very nice. So I probably wouldn't attempt to tell the truth. Let's say you're being pursued by an animal and you needed to jump over a fence. Would you be in a better place than me? Probably. Something would come out, wouldn't it? Last year, we went to a festival

and Colin Jackson, the other hurdler, was there and they made us hurdle over a hay bale. It was quite interesting how we both managed to get over it. Did you manage? We did, but he's looked better than mine. Mine wasn't elegant whatsoever, but we got to the other side and entertained a few. Is there a community of former hurdlers?

That's very sweet, actually. I know, isn't it sweet? No, I guess, you know, going back those times, you know, Linford Christie and Colin Jackson and myself were like sort of like the three names. So we had some good times, some challenging times, but we all supported each other. And yeah, you stay friends forever.

You don't forget. One more desk aside before we let you go, could we try your tricep dips, please? Tricep dips? Yes, we can. But we've got to try and talk to the mic at the same time. So you sort of go behind. Well, don't worry, it'll pick us up.

Oh, look at this. This is too much. You put your feet out front. You're sort of leaning against. Yes. And you just sort of dip down just a little bit. Oh, gosh. And you can feel with those bingo wings.

That's nice. Yeah, so you can do that in the kitchen. You can do that anywhere. After 45, I don't think. Okay, that was a good idea. There you go. Oh, that's very good. Easy.

Sally, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you for having me here. Don't sit down. No, exactly. Keep going, keep going.

Very lovely to meet you. Thank you very much for coming in. Thank you. Thank you. Sally Gunnell, I thought she was lovely. And I remember watching that race and being so happy for her when she won because those were the days when brit didn't have a lot to celebrate in olympics it really didn't now i think people are a bit spoiled they expect loads and loads of gold medals after super saturday

yeah it's not going to be like that again i don't think do you not well it won't be that good again but i think we do so much better now than we ever used to. So I was at Atlanta in 1996. Oh, no, this isn't going to be the House of International Pancakes anecdote, is it? No, it's not that. It's just that we only won one medal. Yeah, no, that is poor, isn't it? It was just really boring. Whereas we were... Where did we end up on the medals table at the 2012 Games? Third, I think, which is quite incredible.

It certainly is. Yeah, and they were happy days weren't they 2012 they were they really were and I was naive enough to think that the 2012 games would slightly kind of shift London a bit into a smilier happier

place because even the cab drivers were happy Jane they've never been happy they weren't initially, were they? Do you remember the Olympic lanes? Oh, they were in a right old huff, but then they just did that magical thing. They literally turned on a sixpence, like their cabs can do. And after the opening ceremony,

you just couldn't hear enough joy from a London cab driver. Funny that, isn't it? Right, well, thank you very much for taking part in my podcast. Excuse me. No, I'm only saying this because I've got to wind up Because I'm never going to make the start of the show What are you seeing? I can't remember the name of it I'll give you a full and frank review

Okay, and have you had a wee? Oh, don't worry, I'll be going 400 times Have you got some breath mints? No, because my friend's bringing a can of Coke And I've just got a quick chicken wrap I've got to eat Okay, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Get to culture before culture gets to you. Good night, everybody.

Jane and Fi at times.radio is the email address for my podcast that Jane sometimes contributes to. See, I feel quite uncomfortable. I feel uncomfortable saying that. I feel uncomfortable saying that. It's our podcast and do get in touch. We always love hearing from you. Goodbye.

I won't get a wink of sleep tonight, not just because of the heat, because I'm just so worried about Boris Johnson's fate at the Privileges Committee. Good luck, everybody. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings.

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