Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Shoehorning Sir Rod into skinny jeans

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

It's Jane's birthday but not everyone has remembered... *cough Fi cough*. On this special day, they chat significant ages, bra fittings, Rod Stewart in the heat, and hedgehog spikes. If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/ And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is: Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I did feel, I felt sorry for the bra fitters. Could you think of a job you'd like to do? Sweaty boobs. I mean, in fairness to me, I'd book the earliest possible appointment. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by Thomas Fudge's Biscuits. We've got a bit of a reputation, haven't we, Jane? Our desk here at Times Towers is pretty famous for having the most delicious sweet treats in the office. Yep, guilty as charged. But we're not into any old treats. No sir, only the most elevated biscuit makes the grade.

Because we're so classy. May we introduce you to Thomas Fudges, born from the expert British craftsmanship of inventive Dorset bakers in 1916. Thomas Fudges' Florentines are an indulgent blend of Moorish caramel, exquisite almonds and luscious fruits draped in silky smooth Belgian chocolate. Oh, you've said a few key words there, Fee. Exquisite, Moorish, exactly the way my colleagues would describe me, I'm sure.

Did you say sophisticated? I didn't, but I can. Just like the biscuits, you're very sophisticated, darling. And like you, Thomas Fudges believes that indulgence is an art form and it should be done properly or not at all, Jane. I concur. Thomas Fudges, hats off to Remarkable Biscuits. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday to you. Oh, that's quite a sudden fade.

Sounds like my DJ work. It's Jane Susan Garvey's 61st birthday. It's the biggie, isn't it? It's the one everybody remembers. Well, not everyone. I think next year. I'll just ring you the night before. I'm really sorry. Well, usually, so you featured in the Times of London birthdays today. Yes, I did. Yeah, okay. So I'm afraid that today's one of the few Mondays, just due to too much going on on the domestic front because I always love reading the birthdays in the paper every morning and I didn't read it and sods law so I'm really sorry I properly properly apologize because it's just rude to forget people's birthdays I do

it all the time I apologize to you I apologize to everybody I'm gonna try and get better okay all I can say is when March the 17th rolls around next year, you might be a disappointed lady. Good joke. February the 27th. Anyway, look, seriously, 61 is, I was just saying earlier, it just feels, I've got the luxury of not really having to do anything, because it's not, you know, it's nothing. And again, so much to be grateful for. so we move on into another journey around the Sun We do don't we if I'm lucky. Yep But do your 60s because now you can kind of say I'm in my 60s. Yes, I can So, yeah, do you think you have a different mindset to things and if you do, what is it?

Do I have a different one? No, I don't, I remember my grandmother telling me that she'd look in the mirror when she was in her 80s and think who the hell's that because in her head she was still 15 and I don't think any of us ever really change so I'm still that Herbert who lolled around in her teens, I don't think I've changed at all, not in my head. I think everybody's got a year that they kind of get stuck on or is the year that they reference back to all the time because I don't think it's necessarily teenage years but I think everybody does have a I just feel 28, 32 whatever it is. I think I probably am still I'm still that

slightly yeah I think I am I don't know maybe I haven't matured since I was 15 or 16 perhaps I have when I revisit my teenage diaries I really recognize that person I mean it just isn't very much difference maybe that's a very bad thing who knows anyway I'm gonna have a little curry tonight possibly a small glass of lager and then that will be really well that's it only half okay and that that will mark the occasion okay and then I can more vociferously vigorously celebrate a little bit later and perhaps in July when I'm actually on my holidays okay I'd be very interested in hearing from our beautiful lovely

listeners about years that get stuck in your head. Yeah, I mean, if anyone thinks they are marginally older than my sort of 15, 16 in their heads, let us know how you've achieved that. I do think it's an interesting point. I think there's something, I've never been, as you know, a wild woman. So as I settle very happily into middle age, I'm here to tell you this part of my life works for me. Yeah, but I think that's, you're lucky in a way. Yeah, no, I am. Because the people who had the really, really crazy twenties that they absolutely adored,

that is then a life of diminishing returns, isn't it? Yes, I think you're right. So I think it's absolutely lovely to feel really comfortable in middle age and beyond. There's nothing about my youth that I would want to go back and collect. If I've left it in the baggage area, Jane, I've left it there for a reason, somebody else can have it. I wouldn't want any of your discarded luggage from the 1990s. No, but I quite often think that I love life at the moment and I just wouldn't

go back for all the tea in China. And actually some of it is when you see your kids starting to encounter the same massive hurdles of young adult life. And it just brings it all back that actually they're high and they're many. It's quite a steeplechase you're doing back there. It is. I don't want to laugh at the young but Eve has already come up with a cracker this morning about Glastonbury. What no one understands was, I think she just loosely prefaced it with this, what no one understands is how hard it is to prepare for Glastonbury trying all these outfits on in the heat. And I'm getting the same thing at home. The hall is just full of collapsible, bloody chairs, inflatable sleeping equipment. I mean, honestly, I get it. It's hard to be young.

It really is. But actually, on a really serious note, and I've been thinking about this all weekend, Tom Whipple, I worked with Tom Whipple on Thursday on the Times Radio programme, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4, get the Times Radio app, it's free. And Tom was, we were back on the subject of AI and the impact on our working lives. And the woman who runs ITV had been at the Times CEO Summit on Thursday. And she had said that she thinks that within five years, 40% of the jobs at ITV will be done by AI. And she didn't think that was bad news for our balls. She didn't think that she was being a pessimist, she thought she was being a realist.

Yeah, well I'm sure she's right. So already just in terms of cameras, they're automated, aren't they? So on the news at 10, and it must be the same on the floor, the shiny floors of ITV, there aren't any cameramen, they're all just cameras that zoom around on hoists and stuff like that and just controlled from somewhere else. So, I mean, there are some newsreaders across all networks. We've been AI generated for quite some decades. But that was... No, they do it very well. But you can see that that would be much, much more appealing to an awful lot of television stations

if they could AI their presenters so that they never raised an eyebrow or did a side eye or anything like that, or fumbled. Or bumbled or behaved atrociously when not on air. So there's all sorts of... But isn't it interesting, Jane, that actually the jobs that I think have been much diminished in modern times and certainly badly paid and not respected enough probably will turn out

to be the jobs that you cannot be replaced by AI. So that's certain types of manual labour. It is things like teaching. I mean you can't have AI at the front of your class or I think if you do you're going to hell in a handcart and you know you might, we talk about robot carers don't you, but actually there are elements of the caring professions that have to always remain human don't they? Well we'll find out won't we? We will. Probably. Again if we're lucky. Yes if you are a teacher I know lots of teachers do use AI they do use chat GPT it does help them plan lessons I mean it's bound to. But that's where it's all good isn't it?

Where it's going to help back us up as humans, but it's when we're replaced in our jobs that we need to be fearful. I feel really sorry, and Tom was discussing this on Thursday, for the generation of uni and school and college leavers right now, because they're looking at a world of work that is going to change so rapidly in the next couple of years and they're going to have to ride this out and it's going to be incredibly difficult for some of them to get a toehold somewhere and then everything's going to change might be for the better There might be all kinds of new opportunities, but we're not quite there yet

I don't think anyway miserable and lots of people will know much more about it than than either of us So let us know I just want briefly before we turn to lighter matters just to say that I'm really grateful to the people who emailed about Heston Blumenthal's incredibly interesting and important documentary about bipolar. And we talked about it with Jane Jamal on Thursday and Sarah says, I watched that documentary on iPlayer as someone with many close family members who live with bipolar, including my dad and sister. I really do think Heston is extraordinary to be so vulnerable on camera and to allow the world to watch his emerging understanding of this complex condition that is still so stigmatised is remarkable.

I must be transparent and explain that I work for Bipolar UK, the only national charity supporting people with bipolar. We didn't get a mention in the documentary, other than a two-second clip of Heston on the BBC breakfast sofa. However, the BBC spelt our name incorrectly, the credit-read Heston Blumenthal biopolar ambassador. It's not, I mean we understand how that happens but it's unfortunate isn't it. Bipolar disorder has been ignored for too long by MPs, by policymakers and the media. I really hope this documentary gets more people

talking about it and understanding it. Sarah, good luck with your work and thank you very much for that. And just another perspective from a listener who we can keep anonymous, but she talks very movingly actually about the experience of being sectioned and indeed how it works. You cannot be sectioned by anyone except for an approved mental health professional. A doctor or partner doesn't section anyone despite what TV shows might show. As you will see from this email, it is a complicated process to take away a person's freedoms. And she goes on to say, mental health hospitals are grim places. I always try to pretend I'm on holiday somewhere where I have

bed and board. It doesn't always work and if I say this aloud the staff think I'm delusional which can make the stay in hospital even longer. The days are long and revolve around taking medication. Access to outside space is limited due to leave restrictions. Hospitals are loud, doors continually slamming, the other patients are unwell, so the whole experience can actually be pretty grim. That's from Helen and thank you for that Helen and thank you also for really clearly explaining what actually happens when someone is sectioned. She does say that she's always experienced very respectful and polite Mental Health Act assessments, so I'm glad to hear it. But it's, I'm sure it's not easy going into mental hospital, I'm sure it

isn't at all. No, and I'm sure that the provision is patchy across the country to say the least, and that thing that is happening in so many areas of care where actually you are sent somewhere miles away from friends and family is definitely something that you hope is quite high on West Streetings priority list. Can I just do one more? I'm really sorry but I'm so grateful to these people for emailing in on this difficult one. This is from Liz. I have been sectioned and diagnosed with bipolar although it was 30 years ago. Alas I haven't been an award-winning chef, though I have had an interesting and creative life.

Heston is a hero to be so open about something so painful and raw. For what it's worth, in my experience, it's entirely possible to live a creative life without getting ill, but it can be bloody hard work, and I've needed a huge amount of time and support. I also feel we need to swerve the tortured genius trope. Much as though the tingle of hypermania can be exhilarating, ultimately it's destructive and that is the

opposite of creative of course. That's such a good point to make and actually we did talk about it briefly before didn't we? The well known phrase that the difference between madness and genius is success. And success does seem to afford an awful lot of people, you know, the opportunity to embrace genius but not see beyond that, not see the point at which it's really tipped into something so harmful. And there are so many points along the way in Heston's journey, aren't there, where you just think, gosh, there must have been people in the room who sensed that something was really wrong for him, but they were making money and opportunity out of the edge of what they chose to see as genius. So they probably didn't reel him back in because there's so much of his work that now you look

at and you just think, well, the poor guy, that might not have come from a place of joie de vivre or pushing the boundaries, you know, it might have come from a very nasty place actually. So yeah, I think what he's doing is fantastic and you just wish him well, don't you? I mean literally you wish him to be calm. I wish him calm. And if that calm means that his creativity is in some ways curtailed, but it might not be. But there are swings and balances for everything in life, aren't there? So swings and balances, checks and balances, swings and roundabouts. So, you know, it's kind of like, well, I mean, I don't mind if he's not as successful as he used to be.

I just like the guy to be well. But I hope that that means that, you know, he doesn't lose everything. Because I think his businesses are obviously a little bit more susceptible now, aren't they? Can I just say hello to Jenny? You were doing the show on Thursday with the Tom Whipple, the science man, because I was going to be doing university visits and Jenny says, I'm wondering whether he was on the early train, 5.48 to Edinburgh on Friday the 20th of June. It's very early indeed. There is a higher than usual chance

I was mistaken. My daughter and I were travelling up to the University Open Dead Edinburgh on Friday and you did say that you saw a sleeping woman on the train. You were asleep every time I looked over. This made it hard to tell if it was you and definitely socially unacceptable to ask if it was you. Were you wearing a black skirt? Mine was orange. We completed the series of sounds and movements anyway, saying hello and all of that kind of stuff. When we got off the train, if it was you, you

disappeared into the crowd almost as if you were trying to avoid a strange woman from the train. Well this person would be moving at speed if it were you. That's very true. Enormous, incredible speed. But when I sit down I do tend to nod off. So Jenny it wasn't because the sociology department that we were hoping to visit, Edinburgh University, their open day was curtailed by strike action. So in the end we decided not to go. So I hope that you had a very fruitful trip.

It is quite a lot to do, isn't it, from the south of the England to go to Edinburgh and back in the day and in a day and I know that it was incredibly hot up in Edinburgh as well so I hope you had a good time and I hope it was informative for your young person as well. Yeah, they're interesting those university trips. I think sometimes, I'm not going to name the location or indeed which of the children it was, but I went with one of my daughters to a location that within half an hour she decided she couldn't spend a day. We were back on the train.

But I think that's what's brilliant about it. No, it's too small. Really brilliant. I do remember going to look around the LSE for, this is my experience, absolutely back in the day. And that's right in the heart of London, isn't it? Yes, and I, I mean, it's obviously the days before Sat Nav and any kind of help, so I bought an A to Z at Waterloo and tried to make my way to the LSE,

which isn't far from Waterloo. Well, it would take me three or four days to find it, but yeah. It took me a whole day to find it. And by the time I got got there I was just so nervous and intimidated and lost. Because in those days you used to get interviewed didn't you at university? Yes you did, you did yeah. It was just a terrifying experience actually so absolutely hats off to the universities now because they put on such a show there are people in t-shirts everywhere welcoming you in and they've got

pamphlets and you know shuttle buses and things it's just it's a revelation actually revelation but I didn't get the grace to get into the LSE anyway I was going to read local government Jane. Their loss and indeed local government governments loss. What was I thinking? I don't know. You'd have been, what would you have been? Well, I mean, local, it's not like local government's not important. No, it's hugely important, but it's not my skill set, because that is detail and filing, and, you know, making sure that you're across the, you know, very kind of, the fine stuff. And that, that would, I wouldn't have been any good at of the fine stuff and that that would I wouldn't

have been any good as it Jane. I'm just saying I wouldn't have been any good as it. You know yourself honey. I had another spectacularly brilliant but haphazard day out yesterday with one of my oldest friends from the previous employer and I seem to be blessed with a lot of female friends with no sense of direction. Now, I don't have one either. So when two women in middle age go on a trip, a road trip, Jeopardy plays quite a big part. Okay, but the stuff is there to help you know. I know. It talks to you. Yes, but that was the problem.

We were so absolutely engrossed in conversation. But we only had to go from a town in Kent to a beautiful place. And I must confess, I'd never heard of it and I'm so glad I've now been called Charleston. Have you ever been there? No. It was the home of a kind of part of the Bloomsbury set back in the day. Vanessa Bell and Duncan Grant, I need to get my facts right. It was the most beautiful house relatively close to,, I think it was off the A27,

if that brings it home to people, near Lewis, I think. Oh, lovely. Yeah, so really, really gorgeous part of the world. I'd never been down there before, really. Well, apart from a couple of weeks ago when I did go to Heathfield, which is, anyway, this is not interesting. But when I got there, can I just say,

the volunteers at that place were a class above. They were so good. You could wander around the house at that place were a class above. They were so good. You could wander around the house and you could ask anything you liked and the people, I think they're volunteers, I don't know, perhaps they're paid, but either way, quite fantastic. They really knew about everything and I didn't know much about the Bloomsbury set apart from the fact that they were... Oh, by the sounds of it you had no idea where you were. I didn't until I got there. They were very fast

and they did all kinds of arty things. Very arty. How arty? Incredibly. So they made pots, they did paintings. Oh my gosh, I mean that is the edge of art. And some of them had children out of wedlock. You're kidding. And even gay things were going on for you. You honestly wouldn't believe it. But what a fantastic place to visit. Really loved it. It's a hard recommend. Okay. Get there.

You'll never find it. I mean it... How long did it take you to get there? Well, it was supposed to take... It was supposed to take about 45 minutes. It took about... Well, it took... You know, we had the whole day to fill, so it couldn't have mattered less.

But once we got there, it was hugely enjoyable. Okay. Do you use a SatLav? Not as such. Well, can I recommend that you do? I wonder what the Bloomsbury set would have made of SatLav. Well, I don't think they would have liked it, because they were so carefree. Yes, exactly.. Yes they were. They wanted to go on A roads and B roads. They cocked a snooket convention so they wouldn't have used it. There's a new show

doing the rounds isn't there featuring the Mitford sisters. I'm not really interested in them. I am so bored of them. Yeah okay I'm glad you said that. I couldn't give a monkey's what a group of aristocratic women who, you know... One of whom was a Nazi. Yes, and there's always this kind of slightly almost ironic raised eyebrow about the Nazi one. It's kind of like, what are we doing that for? God knows. And I just don't find the particularly interesting. I mean to the naked eye they can appear rich, bored and thin and that's about it. And I know that one of them had a wicked sense of humour. Oh good for her.

But lots of women do. I think you're right I think that's a peculiarity about such an obsession about them, Jane. ...the over-celebration of some aristocratic people for their quirks and eccentricities. I mean, I suppose you could say maybe the Blooms reset coming to that cash group, but they were more... But didn't they actually produce more stuff? Well, they did. Did the Mitfords produce? I know Nancy Mitford was a writer, wasn't she? But has everybody else in the Mitford?

Well, there was the woman who became the Duchess of Devonshire. Debbs? Yes. I think she was, I'm gonna say she was one of, well she was, the nicer one. But like you I don't really get it. I don't really get it. Now I know you don't like theatre so I was thinking, would you, because it's had interesting reviews and I think I'd like it, that big musical show about making an album, I think it's called Stereophonic. Oh, yes. I've heard some slightly odd things about that. You've heard good things. Well, I read one review that gave it quite a number of stars. I thought I'd probably like that, because I like that kind of, you know, I thought it's a bold concept to me to put the making of an album on stage.

Yes, it is. Quite an interesting idea. Were you going to suggest that we go together? No, because I was about to say it's over three hours long. Oh, well I'll go for the first, I'll be going for the second. Yes, okay. That might be doable. But if anyone's seen it, can you let me know what it's like? Because I wouldn't rule out going actually. It does seem like quite a commitment over three hours, but armed with a few drinks before I enter and with the possibility

of an ice cream at half time, I wouldn't completely dismiss it. You wouldn't rule it out? No, I wouldn't. We had a lovely chat, didn't we, with a top, top lady in the world of musical theatre and theatre production about the very, very long shows. Oh yeah, no she was, she was great. So we were chatting to Dame Rose from resquire, weren't we? Chief of the ambassador theatre group and imprisario,

what would it be? A lady imprisario, imprisar... Imprisarian-ness. Yeah. But she was saying, don't make the shows too long because actually people are thinking about how to get their train home and whether or not the babysitter is going to stay after midnight and, you know, will the car park have closed? I mean, all of these very practical things actually, and she's spot on.

That's exactly after, I think, quarter to ten at a show, that is what everybody in the audience is thinking about. You can't lose yourself in the production if you've got more than half your mind on real life out there. Yes, yeah. I like to lose myself in production. Do you? Well you just get lost everywhere don't you? That's lost in a different location with Jane Garvey. Yeah that could be my new podcast. Now this is a funny one about taking things the wrong way. Literally, dear all, I'm a little behind on episodes and using a long walk through Lima, I know, in Peru, to my destination to catch up. I wanted to email because of the episode from last week where Fee mentioned accidentally taking two antihistamines instead of paracetamol in the middle of the night reminded me of

one of my favourite ever triages from my time working as a doctor in emergency medicine, I'm presuming. The note popped up as GP referral. Thinks he swallowed AA batteries in his sleep. Cue complete disbelief in a long discussion with said patient as to his mental state. The history gave was that, exhausted from a day of solo parenting, he had fallen asleep on the sofa after a glass of wine Woke in the middle of the night with a headache and had taken two paracetamol before going properly to bed When he woke the next morning, however, he discovered the sealed paracetamol box on the counter Beside an open box of double-a batteries from which two were missing You can imagine the conversation I had to have with the radiology department about my subsequent x-ray request

But there in perfect outline on the x-ray were two double A batteries sitting pride of place in his stomach. Perhaps this level of exhaustion is another thing to add to the list of things to consider before having children. Or maybe the batteries would have ensured that his day of parenting the next day would be less exhausting. I know, I think that tells us an awful lot but double A batteries, they're not the small ones, they're not the button ones, are they? No, they're really not. No, they're about three or four inches long.

So how can you think that that's a power of C tomorrow? Well, you can't normally. That's terrible, isn't it? Why did you keep batteries by the bed? Oh, I can't. I don't know, Jane. I'm very naive. Well, to put it in a radio.

That's right, Fee. Oh no, they weren't by the bed. They were. Well, what were they by the bed? Remind me. What does the email say? I don't think it's the main point of the email. Well, that's just where I've... When you're my age, you can ask these questions. No, I think it was on the side, wasn't it? It was on the counter somewhere. But Rebecca goes on to say,

Another highlight from the I swear same shift was the triage note, road traffic accident, car versus public toilet, patient thrown off toilet. And that ladies is why I will always endeavour to use lavatory's house within a solid building. Yeah I think that's a very very good point. So that would be a portalute. Yeah which is used by builders. Imagine, imagine, you're just going about your business, you may only be halfway through. Suddenly. That's not pretty. We hope that both of those people were absolutely fine by the end. And Rebecca says, can I have a shout out to my friend Hannah, who I know will be equally

delighted for the mention and furious that she didn't get in there first. And we love that. We love causing a little bit of a muck between friends. That's exactly, we excel at that actually. Causing division. That's wonderful. Mari says, I was prompted to write about breastfeeding in strange places. My oddest location was when attending a job

interview for medical training at West Bromwich Albion Football Club, a place with which I'm not just familiar, I would say frankly over familiar, as I was taken there as a treat many times during the course of my marriage. Now of course dissolved. What the club? The club's still going, just the marriage. Actually it was they're very friendly people at West Brom. Anyway training posts for medical jobs are organized nationally. Oh I didn't know this so I had to travel from Scotland to Birmingham with my husband and four month old baby. I never managed to express milk so that wasn't an option. My husband and baby waited in one part of the stadium, the Hawthorns, while I was interviewed and I tried to nip out to meet him to feed the baby when I

could. It was eminently stressful. Yes, I could have tried formula but I didn't want to be forced to do that. Some irony there as applying for training in a healthcare system that actually promotes breastfeeding. I've been listening to you two from the start and you've kept me company through training and having three kids. Lots of listening in the small hours when up with a wee one. I'm about to finish my training and move to a new area so if any of your listeners have advice about making friends when moving to a new place as an adult then I would love to hear it. Mari thank you for that, good luck with the new role. I can't quite understand why you had to go to West Brom to I can't quite understand why you had to go to West Brom to attend that interview, but that must have been the way that system worked.

I wanted to mention this because it reminded me of the christening that my youngest daughter had actually. She was christened by the West Brom chaplain and it was a wonderful, a very moving occasion and he was absolutely on it, the Reverend there, and yeah, it was unforgettable is how I'd describe that occasion. Have you got fond memories of the Hawthorns? Yes, I tell you what they did do there, the most fabulous meals. Really? Yeah, so they do what I'd call a full roast on a Sunday with meat that hadn't just been cooked for you,

it had been given a right good seeing to. There was no question. It was well done. It was well done in every way. Well I think that's good. So I'm never sure about the pink meat thing. Well I think it depends on the meat doesn't it? I don't know. Now so much correspondence about hedgehogs. They are everywhere, which is really, really good to know.

Susie Walker is listening in Bedale, North Yorkshire, and appreciates the podcast. Depending on dog walks and insomnia, she's listening at any given time of the day. Hello, my lovely townies, she says. We live in North Yorkshire, and we have a family of hogs who turn up every spring. We have a completely walled garden. Yes it's listed sorry. Very very high class of listeners. Please don't apologize. We're desperately trying to increase the quality of our listeners. We'll take grade one, we'll take grade two. I don't know about grade three. Well we can only dream.

We have a completely walled garden with gates to keep the dogs in. So how do the hogs get in? Well husband reckons they climb on each other's backs to unlatch and relatch the gate, saying ow ow ow as the prickles penetrate their paws. Well, I've seen stranger things on Instagram. Once you get into that loop on Instagram of animals doing the funniest things, you can be there for hours and you do wonder about some of them. Once they're in, they usually raise up to five piglets. Our dogs occasionally bat a rolled-up adult across the lawn but otherwise they leave piglets alone. Come autumn the family

disappears only to reappear the next spring. This has been happening for ten years at least and we hope it continues for another ten. It's a slice of life isn't it? It's a slice of country life which we much needed. So they must be squeezing in. Maybe they're like rats who can squeeze into wafer thin crevices can't they? And they've got very bendy bones inside. How do they do it? They just have super flexible spines? What is that? They must do. Maybe they're doing Iyengar yoga too. It could be actually, probably hot yoga. Jenny's in Putney, oh it's very posh Putney isn't it? That's another high class emailer. By the river Putney. Oh, it's very posh, Putney, isn't it? There's another high class emailer.

By the river. Yes. I'm just listening to your podcast on my way to work in Wimbledon from Putney. She's going as far as Wimbledon to work. And heard your chat about hedgehogs. My husband saw one a couple of nights ago when taking our dog out for his last wee. Wouldn't it be lovely if dogs took men out for their last wee? That would be the alternative way of doing things, wouldn't it?

It probably happens somewhere. It was curled up on the pavement on our road, says Jenny. Unfortunately, by the time I went outside to have a look, it had scuttled off. I was a bit worried it would be OK. Would the foxes get it or are foxes put off by the spikes? Well, I hope they're put off by the spikes. I mean, surely that's the point in having them. Um, is that why they have spikes?

To deter predators? I don't think it's fashion. No. Um. Yes, I think it is. Is it? I'll tell you what David Attenborough's say for the moment, Eve.

Well, are foxes just so greedy, urban foxes, that they'd have a go in spite of the spikes? No, I don't think they need to because they just know that there's a box of chicken wings, you know, if they just carry on down the road for another 15 minutes. This one comes in about maternity and I thought this was extraordinary. Oh, I love this. It's from Hannah. We are due to have our first child in August and thought you might enjoy some of the NHS advice. The attached photo, we thought it was hilarious.

And Hannah says might as well do something useful I suppose with a smiley face emoji. So this is a poster that must be up in the hospital that Hannah's attending at the moment. I couldn't believe it. It's like something from the 1950s and then the 1950s should be ashamed of itself. It says, remember, birth is a normal day's work for a healthy woman and healthy baby. You'll hardly notice. And each of us do it our own way. Do you know what? It's really not. I just say that both times I gave birth, it didn't feel like a normal working day at all, a normal working day. Maybe I'll visit a prep, I'll buy myself a nice flat white, I'll read the paper, I'll come and chat to you, have lunch, we interview some people, mostly men about war at the moment, and then I trot home for a non-alcoholic beer and a bit of Love Island. It's really not

that. This goes on, switch off your thinking brain, the advice is. Don't think about it. This is terrible, Jane. Labour is easier if you can hand yourself over to the work your body needs to do and trust your body knows what it has to do. I mean, that's a dreadful sentence anyway, isn't it? You have to read it three times to understand what it means. Anything that keeps your intellectual forward slash thinking mind active, like watching the news, answering lots of questions, texting, Facebooking, predicting what will happen, obsessing over detail, is likely to get in your way. So women, just switch yourself off love. Practice doing things that help you get into a more instinctive mindset. Try getting out of your head, well, yeah,

and into your body or the moment by for instance listening to music that absorbs you, dancing and swaying whilst humming or singing, knitting, walking. This just is extraordinary. Well, because I haven't been through labour, I need to hear from you. Would any of that helped? No. It once, so the thing that I do agree with is you simply don't have time in your head to be thinking about texting, predicting things that will happen, Facebooking. Why is Facebooking? You know you can't do that because your body's telling you that you need to

concentrate on what's happening. But you do need to stay in the moment. You've been given lots and lots of instructions about what to do and when to do it. You still have to really concentrate. I just find this unbelievably patronising. Have a labour project, it goes on to say, make a playlist, bake a cake, make something for the baby, organise a cupboard, knit. Organise a cupboard?

Have something to do that keeps you occupied whilst your pains build and find their rhythm. Well that's not always possible either, sometimes the rhythm is a little bit out. Lots of women say though, and did you have this even though you had caesareans, that the most extraordinary kind of, I don't want to call it a home making instinct, is a cupboard tidying thing kicks in and it must be to do with your hormones because loads of people say they just have an insane desire to go and fold laundry, clean out a cupboard, you know, pick out the bits between the floorboards, it's just weird kind of active domesticity. No. You didn't have that? Well I was too, you've seen that image of me, I was too fat to move. Oh that's very true. The idea that I could have sorted a cut, you could be bloody joking. I could hardly stand up.

You could have rented yourself out as a space hopper. Made a bit of extra cash all the day. But Hannah, thank you for sending this because... Yes, and we need to emphasise this is 2025 talking. Yes, it's up in the hospital. Whereabouts in the country are you, Hannah? We need to have a child. Our first child in August thought you'd enjoy some NHS advice, the attached photo. So, yeah, it's of the now. Well, good luck to you, Hannah, honestly. And thank you for sending it, as V says, but, um, gosh.

I was a bit surprised. Switch off your thinking brain. Oh, okay. You won't need it anymore anyway. Not after the kiddies are born. It'll be a long time before it kicks back in. Liz just wants to draw our attention to somebody she says is a brilliant ventriloquist. Oh, yes.

Nina Conti. Yeah, we should give her a mention. She is absolutely brilliant. She's such a clever woman. I have to get you to watch Nina Conti doing her monkey, doing her monkey ventriloquist act, says Liz. I was never a fan either, but honestly, I was in stitches at her routine. I've moved to North Devon now

and hoping you guys come this way soon. Well, we could go down to North Devon, couldn't we? We've got a lot of places to visit. They're all just lining up at the moment. Well, we have, and we're gonna make the effort, couldn't we? We've got a lot of places to visit, they're all just lining up at the moment. Well we have and we're going to make the effort, aren't we? 2026 is going to be our year. What year of making the effort? Get the Winnebago ready, we're coming. We're coming, well I'll be coming slowly and Fee will be coming very quickly. Jane and Fee, so much of what you talk about resonates with me. I mean that's a worry for a start. I'm an ex-OBO player and in June 2011 at the age of 18 I was practicing incredibly

hard for my grade 8 OBO exam. You must be able to relate to this. Yeah that's the top whack exam. You've got that haven't you? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. What tunes did you play? Oh I honestly can't remember. It's been etched out of my mind.

Well, it would have been something sad, I can tell you that, and probably something by Bach. A few days before my exam I was enjoying a McChicken sandwich for my tea and I felt a sharp pain between my shoulder blades. It began to get painful and difficult to breathe, so I had to go to A&E. After a long wait and a chest x-ray, they discovered my right lung had collapsed. How terrible! The strain of oboe playing was partly to blame. But I was also told I was more susceptible to a collapsed lung because I was tall and thin. My friend came to see me in hospital, his dad was a vet,

and he told me that greyhounds are also prone to collapsed lungs. Therefore, I am the human equivalent of a greyhound, just what you want to hear as a self-conscious teenage girl. I never did do that oboe exam but I don't think it's held me back in life, says Catherine. I'm sure it hasn't Catherine, but it sounds like you've got grade 7 oboe, so it wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Yeah, that's plenty enough. But why would you be, if you were tall and thin, more prone to a collapse long? I don't know.

Maybe it's just stretched out a bit more. But yes, does playing the oboe take it out of an individual? It's got a weird breathing, you need a weird breathing mechanism for the oboe because you've got to learn to push an absurd amount of air through a very, very small aperture, the reed. So you're taught to do it by using your diaphragm, but actually there's a lot of pressure that holds in your lungs whilst you're sending the air out. So yes, I think it does put quite a strain on your lungs. I think it makes your lungs very healthy actually for a while, but I can completely understand

the logic of if you're playing so, so much then maybe you are straining it. But that's another good reason to never, ever, ever get your oboe back out of the box. But I'm sorry to hear that because I'm sure it makes perfect sense now that you didn't go back and do it and stuff, but that must have been horrible at the time if you'd been really practicing for something and it just actually made you incredibly unwell. That would be very unnerving, wouldn't it? And the Greyhound stuff, I'm just going to ignore that because Nancy's going to live forever. Is she all right at the moment?

No, the heat, Jane. Oh, yeah. The heat is just such a worry for dog owners the country over, isn't it? I mean, it's just the most sensible piece of advice that I ever heard, and it was a lovely vet we had on the program here, was a vet who said that during really, really hot weather, just don't try and take them for a walk. A dog will not die because they haven't gone for a walk that day,

but they might well die if they do. And I thought that's brilliant. Because as a dog owner, you have an obsession about taking your dog out. I mean apart from anything else they've got to go somewhere to do their business. But yeah, no, she was really, really struggling. But I think you were too. We all were. I mean it's nearly 33 degrees in London on Saturday. It was ungodly. If I'm really... What were you doing? Tell our lovely listeners what you took to Google to search for. It's brilliant.

I went on a property website to look at the price of houses up north in Harrogate. I just can't live. I'm not me. My youngest daughter did a horrible thing. She took an image of me when I didn't know she was doing it and I looked like a defeated potato. I'm just sitting there at the kitchen table, slumped, staring into the mid distance. I just look like a Celt who's been, for some various reasons, just been sent to Uranus. I just can't cope. And I couldn't cope. I also had a bra fitting first thing on Saturday morning. Are you and your bra fittings?

Well, Fie, I'm… You have more bra fittings in your lifetime than I think a whole troupe of bra fitters have in their lifetime? I did feel I felt sorry for the bra fitters. Could you think of a job you'd like to do? Sweaty boobs. In fairness to me I booked the earliest possible appointment so I was in there at 10. I mean they know their business, they really do, so I was in and out by quarter past 10 but it wouldn't be my favourite choice. Have they changed?

Slightly, yes. Well, at least it was worth it. Well, you don't think they just say I've changed just to make sure I come back next year? No. You go over a year. I think you have to when you've got these gadungas to deal with, you don't have any option. A quick suggestion says Colette, how about a little glockenspiel or a xylophone for your

long time listener first time emailer jingle. Jane could do a plinkety plonk in the vein of Gladys Pugh to highlight the moment. I just thought it might be better than Jane's humming. That's Colette who's sat in front of a fan. Well I was Colette for most of Saturday. I was in such bad humour on Saturday. I felt for every single individual on Saturday because it was just a grotty time in London wasn't it? It was and there was so many times when I thought thank God I don't do a manual job. I don't know how people are concerned. Oh 100% or a caring job. I mean I hope the aircon was doing its business in

hospitals and care homes. But just in restaurants, cafes, museums, buses, everything. Eww. Right, final one from me, and I don't know whether we're going to be able to put these up but I'm going to wait for a nod from the Eve. I know that the rude vegetables have long since run their course and whilst I understand why I do miss them, so do I, Emma. I'm an ex-primary school teacher and my role as art lead often involved colleagues sharing with me particularly choice examples of children's artistic endeavours. Imagine my delight then when you're

informative and essential podcast touched on this very subject recently. And so without further ado explanation I present to you a year one pen and ink depicting an Italian bell tower and a year three drawing of our beloved Vicar with his special cup. Well the Vicar with his special cup has won the prize of the week from me. I mean I'm assuming it's a very significant tribute to the wonderful mystery of Holy Communion but it looks like a man holding his penis. I don't know whether can we put them up Eve? I think we can. Because Emily says the pics are a few years old now so both children have moved on to big school and obviously we're not including anything about who they are on the picture.

And thank you because I think you may start something which, if you're going to send in some pictures that your kids have done, will you just ask your kids first if it's alright, because we don't want to embarrass anybody. But they, or they made me laugh out loud this morning. And actually I think Colette's idea of the glockenspiel is a very good one. You could do that. Well you'd be better at it.

No, you'd be fine. You'd be, you'd nail it. You'd be taken, you'd nail it. You might discover your inner timpani. I think it's, I don't think, I think as the years go by, I think that the chances of discovering my inner timpani are, really, I've been looking for it for years. No one's ever found it. Stop it.

Just, okay. Quick mention to Anne, who's come up with a lovely and surprising link to the Irish crooner Daniel O'Donnell. I just wasn't expecting this. First-time emailer here but long-time listener from here in Sydney. If only that jingle was ready. Where your podcast is discussed with my friend Nikki who is in the UK. We are usually at opposite ends of the day while listening and your pod provides a fabulous touchstone for typically unique UK activities and experiences for this expat. Well that's brilliant, I'm glad we serve a purpose there. Now catching

up on last week's podcasts, apologies if this is too late by now, it's never too late, I heard you talking about the Irish crooner Daniel O'Donnell. Your comments about him selling truckloads of records are completely true, so you'd imagine he's not short of a bit of cash. And here's the reason for my email. Last year my brother was emigrating from the UK and using various online sites to sell some of his many, many suits prior to his relocation. He told us that one inquiry was from Daniel O'Donnell, the Irish singer bloke. No way was this true, we said, but it is and it's definitely him, he insisted. He wants to wear it for a Sunday Times photo shoot. Wow! So there you have it, Daniel O'Donnell,

savvy online shopper with excellent taste. Has a popular crooner ever bought a suit off you? Cliff? Oh my word, that'll be something. Sir Roderick as he builds up to Glastonbury? Oh my goodness, I'm very glad it's not too hot at Glastonbury for him. I keep checking the forecast. Eve will be fine. She's got heat resistant outfits but he's going to be wearing a skinny jean and those can be restrictive in the heat. I love Rod. Right, so good luck to whoever's shoehorning Sir Rod into his trusers for his appearance,

which is on Sunday, isn't it? It's Sunday 3.45. Yeah, and we're? It's Sunday 3.45. Yeah, we're all gonna be watching. Eve, you're not gonna go! Oh shame, shame on you! That is appalling and we may have to fire her. Right, get involved if you can bear to. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case.

So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.