Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Someone alert Westminster council that the clock face is broken!

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

It’s the final episode before the Coronation on Saturday and hopefully you’re not sick of it yet because Jane and Fi come to you live from a balcony overlooking Westminster Abbey where the new king will soon be crowned…Plus Jane and Fi are joined by Lord Soames - grandson to Winston Churchill, former Tory MP and close friend of King Charles. He shares his memory of the late Queen’s coronation in 1953.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producers: Khadijah HasanTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Welcome to Off Air. I feel as though there's a need to do it in a more formal way today

because of the setting fee. Is that okay? Gosh, okay. Well, how could we do it? I've just done it. My liege. My liege. How are you going to do this?

You're going to need to sit down. Do you want me to move? Jane is currently tethered to a piece of equipment that is stopping you from sitting down. Right, get on your swivelly stool. And I feel very much like I'm one of those American TV newscasters. Because they quite often... They perch. They perch and they have this Madonna-style headset with the microphone.

And they bring you news in a very, very high-octane way, don't they? We don't need to be high-octane, no. You know why? Because we're British. We're British and we're currently overlooking Westminster Abbey, which, as many people listening to our fair will know is a big abbey in the centre of London. Can you hear the siren? As we speak, it is Thursday evening. So it's the evening before the coronation in approximately 36. How many hours away is it? Let's not do the hours.

Well, just say it's Thursday and the coronation's on Saturday. On Saturday, that'll do. And we have just done our Times Radio show, which was good fun today. And actually what has been noticeable is that as the day has progressed, people, even some of our colleagues who perhaps are not monarchists, have just become a little bit more excitable, haven't they? And it's partly, and I put myself in the category of already pretty much signed up to the monarchy I mean I've got you know listen there are things I'd like to carp about of course questions I would like answered but on the whole I think I'm a monarchist to the extent that I just

can't think of a better alternative well I was going to ask you actually Jane about your relationship to the monarchy because I can't work it out at all no i'm not because on the one hand on the one hand i think you're very uh you you can be uh a little dismissive of some of of some of their well listen some of them don't even merit being dismissed do they let's face it points yeah we've been handed a piece of paper is that saying stop talking like this be nice okay thanks very much yeah but then you you've got that funny thing going on where you can't bear to let anything that happens in the royal family pass you by completely you're obsessed with knowing yes everything about them but then i think you're slightly sickened with knowing everything about them yes there's some of that

that's true but most of all um as i think I tried to explain this to Matt Chorley the other day I just like big occasions and the thought of missing out on a big occasion would just grind my gears to such a degree that it's always better in my experience to be around the big events so hence you and I find ourselves on a balcony at the Methodist Central Hall right in the very centre of Westminster here in London and as we look below there are all those if you're not familiar with the United Kingdom and we appreciate people listen to our fair all over the world and some of you listen for nostalgic reasons because it reminds you of home this is an archetypal London postcard going on underneath us isn't it down there it's great and if you turn the colour down on it

and you just slightly remove the very high-tech equipment we can see in front of us, it could be London from the 1940s, from the 1950s, all the way through until today. Because in this part of town, Jane, nothing does change. You know, you won't be able to put up a great big, spangly new office block or whatever. This is the heart of historical London, isn't it?

You'd have to go right the way over to the city to find parts of London as old and established as this. And for lots of people who come and visit the city, this is the first place they'll come to. I've not finished with my monarchy questions, though, for you. Oh, God. OK. What do they actually mean to you it's just I love

I love the gossip I like the pomp I do actually occasionally find it emotionally quite moving I thought that you know the Queen's death was in many ways a moment none of us will ever forget you and I won't forget it because we were at the National Pet Awards

but we've talked about that and we don't want to revisit that although it was i have to say an unforgettable evening that will enough that we're not we're not going back there now but i do find um i think it's i think what it is is i just to go back to what i said earlier i don't know what i'd replace them with. And the idea... Other news. But I'm talking about a head of state, and it would be, do we want anything other than a monarch? I mean, look, everybody else in the world seems to cope perfectly well without one. I absolutely get it.

Should they have 950 separate country estates? No. And, you know, should they pay inheritance tax? Yes. If this was to be the last really elaborate pageantry emblazoned coronation in Westminster Abbey, you know, if by the time the Prince of Wales, William, is crowned king, there's much more of a, you know, out-of-town conference hotel vibe about it.

In a Radisson blue. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? Well, I tell you what would be really interesting is, the truth is, we don't remember, we weren't around when the last coronation happened, and it was an age of, you know, barely any television coverage even. So I think it'll be fascinating to see how everything that unfolds on Saturday goes down with people watching it on TikTok, Instagram,

and various other methods of modern communication and coverage. And if they like what they see, then I expect there'll be much more of it. If they're completely horrified and think the whole thing's cobblers, then it might have to be reassessed. I think there are going to be some memes doing the rounds aren't they well i would agree but i slightly worry about that matrix of popularity you know if there's a picture of a fantastically elaborately dressed yeoman of the guard doing something crazy or a little bit crazy uh you know whilst walking alongside a bejeweled coach that suddenly goes viral all across the Insta.

And that is a reason for somebody to go, yeah, we'll definitely commission another one of these. I just am not sure about that. All right, let's see. It is interesting. When you're here and you've got a great view of the London skyline and indeed the sky over London, the number of planes are just extraordinary, aren't they? It's a busy city. Yeah, it is. There won't actually be planes overhead on Saturday during the service. sky over London, the number of planes are just extraordinary, aren't they? It's a busy city.

Yeah, it is. There won't actually be planes overhead on Saturday during the service. No, and as Rupert Bell was saying, actually a very cloudy forecast does mean that you might have to stand down the Red Arrows and the other formations that are always due to do their flypasts after the Royal Family merges onto the balcony, which for lots of people will be incredibly disappointing because that is always quite a sight, isn't it? The noise of a flypast there can make the whole of London shake, can't it? Well, it can. I always see them coming in where we live in East London because often, Jane, they surprise you.

I didn't know they went over East London, actually. Do they bother with it? Don't be such a snob. That's just because they don't go over west london oh but they do no they do do they yeah they come to east london first very much but i always rather enjoy that because you look up into the sky and you think oh i'm i am slightly connected to something that's happening yeah further down further down west further down west yeah well from us oh i see when they come over oh do, too bad. Attention.

So I'm still concerned about the clock. I'm not going to let this drop. It's just ticking very, very slowly. Somebody does need to get it fixed. I worry that no one's noticed, Jane. It's the clock on the face on the left tower of Westminster Abbey as we're looking at it. It said seven minutes to five when we arrived at three o'clock

and it says two minutes to five now. Yeah. It's annoying. It is annoying. When you think about the history of the place, and I'm not going to lie to you, we've had this sort of crib sheet supplied to us of interesting, fun facts.

And William the Conqueror was crowned in Westminster Abbey, and that's quite some time ago. And the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg would be horrified to discover that the man was French. Was he? I can't, honestly. Is it at all? I know.

And it's just, you know, it's horrific. So thank goodness we've arrived at a situation where at least we have a king who's sort of a bit German. I was going to say. And whose dad was Greek. There's quite a lot of non-English going on in there. We should also say that tomorrow there's a bonus edition of the-English going on in there. We should also say that tomorrow there's a bonus edition of the podcast, isn't there? There certainly is.

In fact, we're doing so many of these bonus editions, they're hardly a bonus. But anyway, tomorrow features an interview you've done with Emma... Emma Bridgewater. Yeah. Who is a pottery queen. And I think if you picture a Bridgewater cup, it's one of those quite sturdy small teacups usually emblazoned with some kind of motif of nature and very English things actually all the pottery comes out of the potteries in Stoke and she is definitely the queen of the commemorative mug so ever since the mid-1980s

she's been making commemorative mugs for every event in the royal family from the marriage of the Duke and Duchess of York all the way through to quite a few pieces actually for the King's coronation and because she's been quite involved in some of the charity work that the King has done in the Prince's Trust in Stoke she has got to know the King and his family. So she's very interesting, actually, especially about how welcoming everybody should be about a blended family being on very, very public display now. Because one of the things that sets the coronation apart on Saturday is the fact that the Queen Camilla will have members of her family in attendance who obviously were never destined to be part of the royal family. No and one of her

grandsons has broken his arm I believe so yes but he's going to manfully take part with just the one arm. I mean you do feel for everybody he's got got... I mean, you and I, I could not be trusted with any kind of role involving an orb, a crown, a sword or any kind of spurs. Just don't involve me because I'd just get it all wrong. I'd put them in the wrong place. And if I was involved in any sense

in that level of really serious ceremonial stuff, I'd just get the giggles, Jane. Well, it. Well, it is tempting, isn't it? I really would. But you can't let that happen.

No. I mean, I won't, but I've yet to be invited. So, well, it's very much in our imagination that you drop the orb and that I corpse. That'll be my anxiety dream

at about 5.25 tomorrow morning. Really looking forward to it okay so look out for tomorrow's bonus podcast which also features a conversation i had with a woman called julie montague who is american and she actually was going on she'd been on a few dates with this british chap who she quite liked and then she discovered uh that he was in fact the heir to the earl of sandwich, could happen to anyone. Hasn't happened to me so far. Has happened to Julie Montague.

And yes, I do ask her, bearing in mind that one day she's going to be a sandwich, which one her favourite would be. Lovely. Well, I thought it was a really imaginative thing to do. She didn't seem that whelmed by it, to be honest. But anyway, I did ask her. So that's tomorrow's off-air podcast everything this week has a kind of regal celebratory theme but don't worry we'll be back in the land of the commoners next week oh we'll be as common as mark by the time next

week rolls around here absolutely back to normal service next week so our big guest this afternoon was lord soames nicholas soames who has been a friend of the King's for many, many years. They met some time ago. We should say Nicholas Soames is a former Tory MP. He's now a member of the House of Lords. And he first met the King when they were very young lads. And he began by telling me about a childhood memory of his. His childhood was fairly exceptional, it has to be said, because his grandfather was Sir Winston Churchill.

A name, Fee, familiar to many, I think it's fair to say. And Nicholas Soames has a wonderful memory of his grandfather, who was then the Prime Minister, and his grandmother, Clementine Churchill, leaving 10 Downing Street for the late Queen's coronation back in 1953. I do have a memory of the day in that my grandparents left Number 10 Downing Street in their carriage, and I remember my sister Emma and I being on the doorstep and watching them, waving them off.

And this absolutely extraordinary... I remember my grandmother looked absolutely wonderful in this beautiful petunia-coloured robes of the Dame Commander of the British Empire. And my grandfather, I think, was in garter. He was in garter uniform. Now, he was he was in garter uniform now he was the Queen's first Prime Minister it was the Queen's first Prime Minister and he was quite an elderly gent at that time wasn't he I can't remember how old he was I he was you know there's a charming story

Jock Colville in his diaries who was Churchill's private secretary, said that he found my grandfather in floods of tears after the king had died. And they were talking about it, and he was terribly worried, my grandfather, that he wouldn't be able to help the queen because he was so old. But, of course, in fact, it worked. It was the most marvellous relationship, by all accounts.

He loved being with her, loved it. And there was a marvellous thing of saying that someone listening outside the door, not listening outside the door, but could hear the peals of laughter coming from, I think they mostly talked about racing together. And actually, I think the late Queen broke protocol and went to your grandfather's funeral. She did. She was an unbelievably gracious and moving gesture. And not only did she do that, she arrived before my grandmother.

And she was in her place when my grandfather's coffin arrived, which was absolutely... I remember even I was 16, I was just even then thinking, this can't be the right way round. But the Queen was there first. My grandfather served six of the kings and queens of Britain. And he was commissioned into the British Army in the reign of Queen Victoria.

And he was the Queen's first Prime Minister. You know, that is a tremendous spectrum of history. And I think, although the Queen actually, you know, quite regularly, I think, didn't agree with my grandfather. I'm sure, because my grandmother has views that she thought were possibly outdated. I don't know. But she clearly listened very carefully to everything he said. But I think she immensely respected his knowledge of the history and the sort of tapestry

of the history of the country, and the social history as well. So on May 6th, you will be at the coronation this time? I will. I'm very honoured to be there. Of the King and also of your friend, and that's probably very significant. What will that be like for you? I'm a terrible... I come from a family of terrible blubbers.

I mean, we're inveterate blubbers. It'll be a very moving and powerful occasion. And the service of the coronation is in itself, I mean, I've read the order of service of the last coronation. And the words and the symbolism are unbelievably powerful. And they're powerful for all time. They really are powerful. They're not, you know, they're very old words,

but they're very well suited to the modern setting, the oath that the king will take for everything. It's absolutely, it's an extraordinary thing about the British sort of constitution and the way it's all put together that it's completely elastic. It seems to have coped incredibly well down the years. So it'll be a very moving occasion. And I've, you know, I've been very fortunate to know the King for a very long time. And we met when we were 12 and I'm 75

and he's now 75 too, I think. I've watched him and, you know, he has, I don't suppose anyone has ever inherited the throne or any position better informed or better equipped to do it than he has. And so, I mean, in a way, you know, one is looking at the sort of culmination of years of preparation. I mean, certainly, of course, I mean, I thought his words after his mother died, after the Queen died, were incredibly powerful and very steadying. And he knows that he's stepping into very big shoes, very big shoes. But he's his own man. Well, he really is, and he's doing so at the age of 75. And the Queen, I've seen footage of the Queen's coronation,

and she was a very charismatic, 26-year-old, beautiful young woman. And it is hugely moving. There's no doubt, and this isn't being ageist because I'm no spring chicken myself, but the coronation of a 75-year-old man is a very different prospect. Am I being unfair? No, I think that's true.

I mean, in the same way that the coronation of the Queen took place under very different circumstances to the coronation now in Queen took place under very different circumstances to the coronation now in terms of Britain's position at the end of the war and rationing and pretty dour state of affairs. It was a great golden beacon in our lives, there's no doubt about it. It isn't quite though, it was full of promise and hope. My grandfather saw it as the new Elizabethan era. And so this isn't quite the same thing.

Of course it's not the same thing. But people are carping, aren't they, inevitably, about such an opulent occasion at a time when so many people in this country are having a tough time? Do you know, I don't think, I mean, if you go to find someone who'll carp, you'll find someone who'll carp. I don't detect much carping. I think the British love ceremonial. I think they expect it to be what it will be, which is the most extraordinary, splendid, magnificent occasion, with all the panoply of the British state. After all, this is the single most important thing that the state does,

or the state does, that the church does, is to try and supervise a coronation. And I think people will love it, and I should be very surprised if the audience around the world isn't absolutely enormous, and in this country. But of course, you know, and that's why I think the King has been at pains,

and everyone associated with this thing has been at pains, to actually say, not that we don't, people call it dumbing down, it's not dumbing down, but it will be slightly less, I imagine, than the last coronation, because in the last coronation we had a million men under arms, so I mean the actual number number of soldiers and every Commonwealth country sent a huge detachment of troops. I mean I do remember going to Hyde Park which is where the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were courted and there they were the Mounties with it and I just never forget the smell I can remember the smell now absolutely wonderful. Horses and canvas and tack and leather, safe leather and swords and, you know.

So we will see some of that. Yes, you will see some of that, but not on, this is the thing, the comparison I was trying to make. This is not, I mean, this is not going to be the same as was the Queen's. No, and has the King talked to you about how he feels about this?

Very, very, well, I mean, it's a huge responsibility he's about to bear. He's already bearing it, of course. But has he ever expressed any doubts about any of this? No. When you say doubts, I don't think doubts. I mean, there's a sort of inevitability to it, but not doubts. It's going to happen. The king inevitability to it, but not doubts. It's going to happen. The king has always been very, very at pains to, I think, the point he made about, you know, there are going to be several people from other faiths there. I think that's

terribly important. I mean, all that is going to be new and very much reflective of Britain as it is today, as opposed to Britain as it was 70 years ago. I've never actually discussed... I mean, as a person, he takes these things very, very seriously. And you will see in the service where he has laid his hand on it. I mean, particularly in the music. I mean, the music, he's commissioned several new pieces of music. in the music. I mean, the music, he's commissioned several new pieces of music.

The orchestras which he has been patron for over 60, 50, 60 years are all going to be played. There are going to be musicians from eight different orchestras with whom he's associated are going to be playing under the direction of Sir Anthony Papano. And I was very, I know what Sir Anthony meant. I saw him interviewed and he said, it will be music to touch the soul. And I think it will be. And I think, to your point about carping, there will always be people who, for one reason or another, don't want this to happen.

But by and large, I think people will rejoice in it. And I think they will... It's a good moment for us because we do do this very well. I don't know what you thought. I mean, I thought that the Queen's funeral was the most astonishingly organised, beautifully run, not a single mistake, foot perfect. Yes, but that, in a way, it was a reflection of her

and this incredible presence that she'd been in all our lives. But she was also a person who was a bit of an enigma. I mean, I think she kept her own feelings very much to herself, her own opinions. We never knew what they were. Her son, the king, is a very different character. And I wonder, he has in the past been accused of meddling. He said himself he'll change now. He'll have to change because that's what this new role brings with it. How is he about all that? He was asked by someone this very question,

I think just before he inherited the throne. And he said, well, you may think I'm very stupid, but I'm not that stupid. Of course, he knows that he has to change. He can't possibly. I mean, the constitutional requirements are such, and he is a stickler for the constitutional requirements. And can I just say that on the question of meddling, that was the most overdone piece of hype that I've ever heard. I mean, I'll give you an example of it. I was Minister of State for the Armed Forces at the time, I'll give you an example of it. I was Minister of State for the Armed Forces at the time,

and the King, Prince Wales he then was, went on a visit to Hong Kong, and he was shown round one of the barracks in Hong Kong, and the accommodation was definitively below par. And when he got back, he told me, he wrote to me and said, I think you ought to know that you have soldiers living there in unsatisfactory conditions. And he was absolutely right. And it was rectified. So, you know, I think the argument of meddling, he didn't meddle.

Well, I suppose I could put the counterpoint to it. Perhaps his meddling was in some ways a good thing. And it's a shame it's now going to have to stop. Well, that could be true, but it does have to stop, and it has. And I absolutely assure you that he's much too conscious and well-schooled to breach any of the constitutional limitations. It just won't happen. Voice over describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Let's rejoin the interview with Nicholas Soames. And in this part of our conversation, he's talking to me about what he makes of the King's relationship with his youngest son,

Prince Harry. In respect of Prince Harry, I just think it's the most tragic I mean I can't put myself in the position where my own son if he did something like that to me it would it would just be the cruelest and one would mind and of course it was no different of course the king very king. Very, very sad, tragic. But as you say, right, we all have families. We've all lived through it. But it was a terrible blow.

And on Prince Andrew, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, but obviously, I mean, the king is a loyal brother. And I'm sure we'll try and help him in whatever way he can. But it's a very sad state of affairs. But you certainly don't believe that there's any role for him, any public role for Prince Andrew anymore? I can't see one.

For Prince Harry, the fact that he is at least going to be present, do you believe, or perhaps you know, whether or not that has brought the king a degree of comfort? I mean, I think it would be a great pity if Prince Harry hadn't come to his father's coronation. And he is coming. And I just hope that we can keep all this in proportion. This is the day about the king and the queen, not about Prince Harry. Are you concerned at all that there might be protests on the day about the king and the queen, not about Prince Harry. Are you concerned at all that there might be protests on the day? Well, I think almost certain there'll be protests on the day.

We live in an age of protest, and, you know, from egg-chucking to God knows what. But, I mean, I think people need to be very careful. You know, I read all these alarming stories that you've read too. And I pray that I can certainly, I think the police who do a wonderful job policing these things and the military together, I hope will ensure that there isn't trouble.

But, you know, it's entirely possible there'll be a lot of yarbourie. Not a lot of it. There'll be a few voices whose lifeless bodies will be passed to the front of the crowd. Well, we don't want anyone to be harmed. No, of course not. What I'm saying is, you know, I don't think it's very popular with the crowd. Well, it won't be popular

with a large percentage of the crowd who do turn out. But I mean, republicanism has never been an especially popular cause in this country, but it does appear to be gaining at the moment. Is the king conscious? Well, he must be conscious of that. What does he say about it? You know, I've never discussed it with him. And I mean, you know, of course it's been ever present.

I mean, I was reading Lady Longford's book about Queen Victoria. There was a tremendous surge of republicanism, actually, in her reign. She eventually became very worried about you. You know, I watch these people. I mean, there are people who are just doing it to draw attention to themselves. And there are others who genuinely believe it's wrong. And I saw the man who runs the anti-monarchy organisation interviewed the other day on the television. I mean, I thought he was talking absolute rubbish, but it's very well put.

And clearly we'll have support. This is, I think, Mr. Smith from Republic. Mr. Smith, of the current, what it's called. Which is called This is I think Mr Smith from Republic. Mr Smith of the I can't remember what it's called. Which is called Republic. It's called Republic. So you know and they're perfectly it's a free country and they're perfectly entitled to do it. I hope they just

temper it and don't do anything silly. So you definitely don't believe that this is the last coronation? No. I don't believe this is the last coronation. And I think that each member, each king, each monarch has always done this job in their own way. It has evolved the job.

And I think that the king understands very well about the importance of his and he has very good connections with people I was watching the other day where there were a lot of young people he said that he's how are the young I mean the young he has a much better connection with young than almost anyone I've seen and I don't I don't see you know people say well he lives in a totally different circumstance well. Well, he certainly doesn't live in a council house. But I don't think that any monarch has ever come to the throne knowing as much about people and lives. And look what the Prince's Trust has done.

It wasn't created out of the blue just for a sort of jaunt. It's helped over a million people. I've totally, and I've met and interviewed people who've been helped by the Prince's Trust, but it would be ridiculous if I didn't just make the point that he doesn't just not live in a council house. He has, frankly, any number of huge homes at his disposal, and people are bound to find that, at times, frankly, profoundly irritating.

But I think that I'm not sure what the king's arrangements are going to be. I don't sort of know where he's going to live next week. Well, he's got plenty to choose from. But, you know, he will make the arrangements that are necessary. I mean, he has an extraordinary reputation, the king, for being, he's always sort of portrayed as being very extravagant. I think he is stylish. But he's also frugal.

I mean, he's very, very careful. And I think you will find there are going to be very big changes in these houses. Well, that's interesting. Well, I genuinely genuinely don't know i mean i only know what i read in the newspapers i really don't it's not the sort of thing you sit down and really discuss i don't mean that no i mean we don't we don't ask our friends about how much money they've got do we on the whole no but what i mean is that for instance instance, I know at Balmoral, they are building, I mean, the king intends to use it much more for sort of public duties. And, you know, it has wonderful facilities there.

He intends many more people to come and see it. And they're making a new sort of visitor centre and everything else to enable that to happen. There have been some very big changes, I know, it's sounding. I mean, he is very sensible, the king, about this, and aware of the fact that, as you say, some people don't feel this is, you know, too many houses, too many palaces. It's not true, actually. Can we just have a quick word about the Queen?

Because I'm conscious that I haven't mentioned the Queen concert I'm talking about now, not the late Queen. I mean, there are many people who I think she herself might say that she would be surprised to find herself in this position on May the 6th. What would you say about that? I think it's been a jolly long, hard journey. All I can say is that I cannot tell you how wonderful it is when you have two old friends who are clearly in love with each other,

clearly make each other very happy, and have ended up happy in their lives. It doesn't happen to everyone. No one's set out at an early stage to make anything go wrong ever. But as it is, it's turned out well. And I think that she has done, I think the Queen has done a really admirable job. And she's, you know, she will do an admirable job because she's a completely straightforward person I mean what you see is what you get and someone said thank god for someone who likes a fag and a pint but do you know what I mean I mean one of one of her greatest one of her

greatest qualities I think is her authenticity she's absolutely straightforward I mean you what you see as I say is what you get. So in terms of her relationship with Prince Harry, would you say that she tried? She tried her best? I'm sure she did. But, you know, this is not territory on which I have ever strayed. Well, that's interesting in itself, I guess. No, because, you know, I just haven't.

Because you feel you couldn't? No, because I wouldn't. I'm interested in that because I suppose that we all unfortunately have some very good friends. But there are things that we don't. Is that a difference? I mean there's a difference between this friendship, this clearly

very long standing friendship with the king but it does have certain boundaries. Well, all friendships have boundaries. And there are things that I have never discussed with the king. Of course I wouldn't. I mean, if the king wanted to talk to me about it, I'd be happy to do so. But all I know is how deeply hurtful it has been, and it was to him.

Of course it was hurtful. You could see it written all over his face. And put oneself in his position. It was just painful beyond words. But with a bit of luck and the following wind, you never know. And as the great day approaches, what do you do to a friend of yours

who's going to become a king or going to be crowned the next day or in the coming days? Do you ring them up? Do you send them a card? What do you do? What's the etiquette here? Well, there's no etiquette. I mean, it's no secret.

I am entirely partial in this conversation. I love him and admire him very, very much indeed. All you can do, I think, to friends, like your friends or my friends or any of our friends, and they're not different, is to be loyal to them and supportive of them. I shall write him a letter before the coronation, wishing him bon chance. I mean, what a moment. He's been crowned in the same Abbey church as was William the Conqueror. I mean, it's a whole sort of cathartic moment for the history of this country.

It's a hell of a moment. In the same way that I think we all both know that the Queen had real backbone and real... And you could see that at our own coronation, 26 years old. And he is the same. He has a backbone. And he will do it very well. Nicola Soames, on what you do when a friend of yours who's been knocking around in your life for decades suddenly finds himself in the position of being crowned in a coronation. And it would seem that you write a letter fee,

which is something I think you'd do to me if you found out that I was in line for... Yeah? Yes. Well, I thought that was a very interesting part of the interview. I know your attention was taken away there, wasn't it? Well, it's only because the police have arrived. They have arrived. And they're searching through everything, including bags of rubbish.

And actually, I'm very heartened to see that. Yes. I was very interested in that part of the interview because it really made me think, Jane, because King Charles is a member of the royal family, that means he can't talk about his son. And I think, actually, what Nicholas Soames was trying to convey was something that you and I would understand all too well,

which is just that a lot of people find it incredibly difficult to talk about the really, really bad stuff that has happened in their family. And, you know, I've got really close friends, Jane, who I've known for the whole of my life, I've got really close friends, Jane, who I've known for the whole of my life, who we don't always discuss everything that's going wrong in each other's families. No, because you can't. No, and if they don't bring it up, I don't bring it up, because that isn't my place.

And I am a common person, not a royal person. So that notion that he must be a very incredibly difficult family, really, really dysfunctional family, for that to have happened and to not be able to talk about it, I don't think that's kind of like, he must be, you know, he must be a very incredibly difficult family. Really, really dysfunctional family. For that to have happened and to not be able to talk about it, I don't think that's true. I think we could probably just get rid of the word dysfunction and just call it a family. Yes. Oh, no, definitely. Because it's like everybody else.

Definitely, yeah. So the police seem satisfied, which is good, but they have... I can't get a cold. Perhaps you won't be well enough for Saturday. I'll have to do it on my own. Go to home and rest. And if you don't recover, it's for Saturday. I'll have to do it on my own. Go to home and rest. And if you don't recover, it's all right. I'll be okay.

I think I need to trace the brand of COVID that I had three weeks ago. Oh, God. Comes back to you. I didn't spread it. Anyway, I've been the source of much mirth today because of my very focals changing and becoming sunglasses. It's been much mocked. And I've pointed out to various people that

it's because my optician told me I had sensitive eyes and I had to have these glasses. Okay, if nobody can get to social media to see a picture of Jane, all you have to do is think of who was the guy in EastEnders married to Pat? Frank? Mike Reid?

You horrible woman! Frank Butcher. Those are his glasses. Currently, if I eat any more of Henry Bird's cake, I'll have Frank Butcher's figure. But anyway, right. OK, everybody. From the heart of the coronation capital of the United Kingdom,

we wish you a very good evening. You did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings. Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler,

the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't, then stick Times Radio on at 3 o'clock Monday until Thursday every week and you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects.

Thank you for bearing with us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. what's happening on your iPhone screen. Voice over on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.