Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Sriracha would've blown my nan's head off (with Kim Cattrall)

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Fi's going to be off for most of next week so supply Jane M will be here. Before that happens, Jane and Fi cover the world of condiments, how frequently they consumes sausages and the Submariner dental experience.Plus, actress Kim Cattrall discusses her new podcast 'Central Intelligence'.Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyAssistant Producer: Hannah QuinnExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'll just do it in my home county's accent then. It's from anonymous in Perth, Western Australia. I can't. You just couldn't resist. I cannot find good knickers. The Times Tech podcast sponsored by ServiceNow. A podcast presented from San Francisco and from London. Each week, a fresh interview with pioneers in tech from the brightest startups to the tech giants.

That's the Times Tech podcast. Each week, a fresh interview with pioneers in tech from the brightest startups to the tech giants. That's the Times Tech podcast, where Danny in the Valley, that's Silicon Valley, meets me, Katie, in the city, the city of London. Exploring how tech is changing life and business in this new world of artificial intelligence. The Times Tech podcast with Katie Prescott and Danny Fortson. Follow us now wherever you get your podcasts. Right, we're making this one quite snappy because we've got some very exciting sponsorship business to do, haven't we? Yes.

It involves us... Can we discuss it? I don't know, it involves us eating, doesn't it? It does. So we're doing a little bit of taste testing because we've got a sponsor for the afternoon show and I'd completely forgotten, if I'm honest. So I didn't need to bring in my tuna sweet corn and wasabi mayonnaise sandwich. Wasabi mayonnaise? What is that actually? So wasabi is a Japanese horseradish. Yeah. And I don't know whether you have this in

your local corner shop but we now have a whole row of condiments. Oh yeah well we would have we do have yeah. I think the world of condiments. Oh yeah, well we would have, we do have. Yeah I think the world of condiments is one which if our grandmothers visited a shop they wouldn't understand what's happened. Oh that's actually a really good, that would make quite a good little TikTok wouldn't it? Take your gran to a shop, especially if your gran's no longer with us, it'd be quite an adventurous TikTok and show her the modern condiment. Yeah, yeah and what would she use it for and how? Oh, yeah. I don't think my nan would have got on with Sriracha. I think it would have blown her head off. She used to put sugar

in fresh orange. Did she? My dad used to put brown crunchy sugar on top of sausages. Did he? Yes. In the morning. And you should try it before you knock it. Well, I don't... Do you know what, Fie? This isn't in any way an attempt at humour.

I don't really like sausages. Do you not? I'm trying to limit my intake. I think a good quality sausage is probably no bad thing, but it's not something that calls me. I would say I had a sausage on average twice a year. That much? Exactly. Yes. something that calls me more. I would say I had a sausage on average twice a year. Only that much. Exactly.

Well, I'll look out for whether or not there's any change in you on those two days. But no, I'm with you, sister. I think the average slightly cheap sausage, its contents don't bear too much over scrutiny, do they? No, and I think perhaps I am haunted by the sausages of my youth. I think that'll be it. No, and I think perhaps I am haunted by the sausages of my youth. Yeah. Well, yes, although, see, I think those were slightly benign by comparison, because they were mostly bread, weren't they? They were mostly breadcrumbs with a bit of poor flavouring. You're right, there were back in the day sausages that had no meat content at all. And just a sort of savoury filling. They kind of exploded when you fried them,

didn't they, because they just blew up. So much water inside them, it kind of exploded when you fried them, didn't they? Because they just blew up. There was so much water inside them, it kind of steamed their sausage-y skins. Whereas now, yeah, they're quite, they can be quite hefty and very complicated, Jane. Very, very complicated. For reasons I can't really explain, that reminds me that earlier this week I bled a radiator. And have you done that in preparation for the winter? I've had my radiators bled. No, I've not felt competent enough in the DIY skills to bleed my own. Well, I suffered from overconfidence.

Thought I could do it. Put my key in and the water, it bubbled a bit and let out quite a satisfying radiator fart. Yeah, which was good. And I thought, I'm onto something here. But then the water shot out vertically no horizontally right at me and it should dribble shouldn't it from the bottom but it went right out the top. When was the the last time you bled the radiators? Probably a couple of years ago. That'll be the mistake I made. It's a built up? A lot of built up but I'll tell you

what it's firing up nicely. Well that's very good. Sometimes when I've had the boiler changed, and that just happens a lot doesn't it? Well it's one of those emergency things that you need to have in your emergency fund if you're lucky enough to have one, enough to cover the cost of a new boiler, because you just need one. And when they go, they go. And they go, that's right. But I had my whole system desludged and the engineer very kindly, it's very similar actually

to our earwax conversation. Oh yes, we've got an earwax email here, go on. He kept the sludge to show me how much sludge had been in my system. And what did it look like for you? Well it was terrifying, it was about a pint of basically kind of yucky, metallic stuff that has come off the inside of your pipes and I suppose there's lime scale mixed in and all of that. But the difference in temperature and efficiency afterwards, Jane, it was well worth the inordinate cost. Inordinate cost.

And you can send the bill to the Cayman Islands. They're a very, very good company actually, they're a local company. It's father and sons. And I love the fact that sometimes when the sons don't understand the problem, they will WhatsApp dad and they film it and he's still there giving them instructions. I feel comforted by that. There's a multi-generational wisdom going into the heating system. Do you think that your daughters will do that later in life?

Ask me for my advice? Yes, on WhatsApp when they're at work. It hasn't, I can't, I would love to be consulted on any subject really, but it's, do you know what, Fie, it continues to be the case that both my parents and my children know more than I do about everything. It's weird though. It is weird. Briefly onto Earwax, this is from an anonymous listener, an intrepid one. She says that she traveled in India.

Sorry, I don't know why I said India. It says China here quite clearly. I traveled in China in the late 80s and through the 90s. And back then you could get your ears picked at tea houses where itinerant ear pickers would wander among the tables offering their services. It always seemed a little bit sketchy to me somehow. I just didn't fancy a stranger poking a tiny pick in my ears. Well, I wouldn't either.

But the idea of being an itinerant ear picker… Do you like that? I quite like that. It would be quite nice, wouldn't it? That's my full-time occupation. No, Fee, it wouldn't. Our listener now does find themselves living in America and she says, the combination of helplessness and dire consequences makes me think of other periods of history as a way of not feeling too burdened, she says. Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear you obviously are not feeling good about things.

Have you read Kamala Harris's book? I've just bought it in a shop it was one of those one half price things so I'm going to have a look at it over the weekend. It's got the most fantastic picture on the cover of her as a, I'm assuming, what we call a primary school pupil with bunches and it will be an image which if she does win the election will be presumably published absolutely everywhere and republished across the world. Yeah, but it's a very, very beguiling shot of a very, very young girl and you would, I mean obviously you wouldn't say this of any image of a small girl who looks about

eight or nine, one day she could be, but that would be quite a thing if it happens. Anyway and it might but equally it might not. Yes and I think wouldn't it be a worry if at the age of eight you did have something about you that marked you out as a future world leader? Well I had something about me. I was about to say it would make you quite unpopular in the playground. I'll swallow that sentence everybody. I didn't go in the playground. I'll swallow that sentence everybody.

I didn't go in the playground. Oh gosh, why? I stayed in reading. Did you? No, no, of course I was in the playground. Can I just say on the topic of books very quickly, before we even get to parish notices, if you're coming to Henley at the weekend to see Rupert Everett, I hope he is every bit as joyful as his book suggests that he

will be. I mean that man is so he has turned every single element of mild failure in his life into such an entertaining story. I really, really admire him for doing that. He writes about his own kind of failings and other people's in an equally visceral, acerbic and really, really funny way. And not everybody can do that. They can see in other people things that make them laugh, but they can't always turn it on themselves and do the same thing. But his latest book is a collection of short stories and imaginings about what would have happened if some of the many, many projects that he's been turned down on had actually come to fruition, which I think is a lovely, lovely conceit as well. Well, he did he famously get turned down for romantic roles when he said he was gay?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And he's spoken very openly about his heterosexual relationships as well and the way that he felt he needed to have Paul Yeats on his arm. But also they were relationships and I think his story from every angle is really interesting. But I'm also slightly scared of enthuying him. Do you know what I mean? Are the tickets still available? I don't know, what day is this? It's on Sunday at the Heavenly Festival. But come and say hello if you're coming along. I think that's going to be very, very interesting. I would, can you give me your copy of the book when you finish? Oh, definitely, definitely.

Because I listened to his first book, which was also very funny. That was called Red Carpets and Other Banana Skins. Yeah, very funny book. If you have never heard it or read it, I would seek it out because you're right, he just gives you stuff that other thespians are not inclined to reveal. Yeah, and I think some of the celebration of Dame Maggie Smith's death has been exactly that, that she was willing to be incredibly honest about other people. It's always quite helpful. She was also so famously dismissive of Downton.

I've barely watched Downton. But every now and again I think, oh, it's on Netflix. I might just, you know, if I'm really bored, I might just give the whole thing a whirl. Oh gosh. No? Have you seen it? Well, I think I've seen one of the early seasons. I saw the, bizarrely, the episode where somebody has sex with a Turkish diplomat and they pass

out and in fact they die. And they have to be carried out of the house don't they or hidden away. I could happen to any of us at any time. Based on real life events. Anyway maybe I should give another whirl. Can I just put Jules and Gaynor on the list for list for tote bags next time around because we have mentioned Gaynor Frostick quite a lot and Jules would like both of them to have a bag and Jules is coming to see us in Cheltenham next week where we are interviewing Anne Cleves and

Brenda Blethan and Gaynor is not coming so we might try and sort that out to make everybody happy. But also she says on the teeth topic, my stepdad served on a nuclear sub from the 1970s. Part of the prep to doing this with the potential for months underwater was to get all of your teeth removed to avoid potential dental issues. Incredible. So some submariners often had dentures from a very young age too. That is mind blowing, Jane. But when you think about it, not that surprising and probably a very sensible practical step.

I'm surprised like you, but the more you think about it, the greater the logic. Because, as I know myself, that agony of tooth pain and then the fact that you might get an infection, it's not good. You would not do well many, many miles in the icy depths if you were in agony. What happens on a submarine if someone gets appendicitis or something like that? Is there always somebody who's capable of... Once again, I'm not a nice person, but I would imagine that you probably... Look, let's hear from other people who know about being a submariner, because I think it's an absolutely fascinating area of military experience.

Bloody terrifying. Must be terrifying. I cannot imagine what it's like, the length of time you are required to spend with a very small group of people in a very confined space, never actually knowing probably for days on end where you are, what you're doing. Not seeing natural light. Not seeing light. No flowers, no fresh air. So someone farts in a submarine, it's just in there for six months. Have you ever farted in a submarine? Call this number now. That's the question. Well I find, and also to be, I would imagine to be the partner of a submariner must be a really tough call as well. Oh you'd worry a bit. You wouldn't be able to search them on

Find My Friends. No, you wouldn't be able to. Yes, is it really true? Would you still be required to presumably have a full medical and dental check-up before you go off? Because it's six months isn't it? I would think so. Yeah right okay and there are women on submarines now they never used to be but I think there are now. Anyway as we've just illustrated as we so often do, not an area we know too much about but we're both extremely interested. There was that drama wasn't there with Saran Jones set on a near a submarine I think it was on a couple of years ago. That's what I'm basing everything on. It's very good that it's very claustrophobic. Very claustrophobic. Very very good. I want to say hello to Caroline and Sean who share my love of premium bonds fee.

Caroline says I do find the highlight of the beginning of the month checking the bonds. This month I was delighted to see I've won £100. Congratulations! Woop woop! Now I don't want to rain on your reveal results parade because I fully understand how exciting that might be. It was more the sensitivity in the company of people who are bringing their own lunches in. Indeed. But this is from another listener, Sean, who says, I too experienced Jane's monthly Christmas Eve rush of excitement. This is interesting and this is from another listener, Sean, who says, I too experienced Jane's monthly Christmas Eve rush of excitement. But this is interesting and this is actually, it's very,

I think he's got it to a T, has Sean, but it's swiftly replaced by more complicated feelings. And this is where it gets, I think, emotionally interesting. Firstly, Sean says, he punches the air in delight because a wind justifies flying in the face of my financial advisor's advice that premium bonds are in fact a mugs game. Secondly, while I still briefly experienced the joy of that 25 quid win, it's swiftly replaced by a churlish assumption

that I've narrowly missed out on the big prize. It is, in that hackneyed phrase, an emotional roller coaster. But rest assured, come November the 2nd I'll be on that prize checker site first thing in the morning from Sean in catering. So it's very clever to have that prize checker site now isn't it because it's within your control to find out if you've won whereas previously it was a little bit have I what do I check do I wait for a letter is someone going to phone all that kind of stuff but also I'm not sure that I think it is a valuable and worthwhile investment if you can go to the maximum amount, isn't it?

Well, I think there are tales, although you're right, there are tales that people have won a million quid if they've only got a hundred pounds worth of bonds. I think it's highly statistically, highly unlikely. And if you can afford to put the top whack in then your rate of return is quite good. You are going to win something every month, but it might be a hundred quid, it might be twenty five quid. Not everybody can afford to have the maximum. Can I also say it can often be nothing and of course not everybody. I mean I think most people have got about, if you have got premium bonds at all, you've probably got about four hundred quid, something like that, and I very much doubt you'll win.

What are they doing? Well they've done a round of applause I think because there was a clanking sound in the aircon system that had been going on and on and on and on and on in the office. Which was being blamed on members of staff who'd been let go and have come back to haunt the environment in which we spend our working day. Yes, all of them, and they are quite powerful, but I think it's been solved, so there was a round of applause. I think that was it right right we also need to say hello to Donna from Down Under good morning from the Galkeust in Queensland I hope

I've absolutely nailed that for you about an hour south of your listener in Brisbane who's been having nightmares, that's Julia, isn't it? I think it's Julia, Jules. Julia, Julia, Julia. This is an interesting suggestion because we're not experts. We're not experts, no. Her experience echoed mine and the nightmares were horrific, blood-curdling horror, not my usual fare. Mentioned it to a colleague one day and they asked if I was taking magnesium. Apparently magnesium can cause nightmares. I stopped the bedtime magnesium and haven't had a nightmare since, which my husband also appreciates as I'd woken him up screaming

in my sleep on several occasions. I thought I'd share as I truly sympathise with your listener. Perhaps this could be the culprit. Really enjoy your show as a gentle start to the day." Now that's interesting because there's a lot of stuff around at the moment suggesting that magnesium helps you sleep. I'm so bewildered and confused. I am confused of dolston. But I think it is worth just taking anything out just to see if it helps because perhaps it is a little supplement or something. Well we had another email recommending melatonin. Melatonin.

Melatonin. Yeah. Now, why would that work? That's something that sometimes people take on planes, isn't it? So that regulates your circadian rhythms. Okay. But the suggestion was to only use prescription level melatonin because maybe the other stuff that you can buy isn't as efficacious. Stepped into big word world. But obviously we're not doctors so actually

just don't take our advice at all but I do think sometimes as well some of those supplementary things they can have other things in them. They're not always wholesome. No, they're not always wholesome. Do you know what I'm going to say, Sophie? What? I think we're all individuals. And I think I just don't think you can generalise. I think what works for some people, I used to swear by Evening Broom Rose. I don't know what I thought. I can't even remember why I took it. What? You go to bed every night, take some shit and then you sleep like a top. But I don't remember why I started it or indeed why I stopped.

Yeah, for a while at the beginning of my menopausal symptoms I tried black Oshkosh. Is that what it's called? I think I remember that. Yeah. I always think of it as Kybosh. So black Kybosh. And made no difference. No difference at all. Wonderful. But I had high hopes. I also drank raspberry tea when I was pregnant. Well that's supposed to bring on... Actually yeah, just before Labour and it's meant to ease the perineum.

Jane, I'm here to tell you. It didn't. Right. Right. Okay. I can laugh about it now, but for a couple of years now I couldn't even laugh. That is the problem. Absolutely no laughing matter. No, and this one comes in from Joe and it's pertinent to this conversation. I take Feast O when talking to a man about heavy bleeding at menopause and I raise it. Apologies if

TMI, there's no such thing on this podcast, but I was bleeding so heavily diagnosed with fibroids that I was living only in black and having to sit and sleep on dark coloured towels. It went on for months. It was during Covid. One night I was so frightened I phoned 101. They asked my husband to take me to A&E. I waited on my own only to be told by a male doctor that it was only endometrial blood and was doing me no harm. As I left he asked me if I believed in God and he said he'd pray for me. Full hysterectomy at 48 years old and now I just have bleeding gums, joint pain and terrible insomnia. I'm coming back as

a man. Joe, I really, really sympathise with you and it's just a horrible, horrible thing to go through, isn't it? And I think when you're gaslighted like that and you're dismissed like that, there is no such thing as only a really, really heavy bleed is not only that's why you're there in A&E and how awful that you weren't offered anything because there are treatments available that there are but so many doctors don't seem to know about them. So I'm just really, really sorry. And if you come back as a man, you'll be a thoughtful man about them. So I'm just really, really sorry. And if you come back as a man, you'll be a thoughtful man as well. So I look forward to meeting you then.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I think heavy bleeding in whatever circumstances, just let's just be honest, it's no fun. Well, it's no fun. And I'm not saying anything original here. But if a man tipped up in A&E and part of his body was bleeding so heavily it was all over the seat, all over the chair, you just wouldn't say only, you just wouldn't. So let's just not put up with this. It's horrible and it's so dismissive. It's a thing that should have changed years ago and it's really got to change now. Thank you. I agree. Every single syllable is echoed by me. And this is from Jackie.

Hello to Jackie. She says, My previously fit and working husband hasn't spoken in nearly 10 years after a severe stroke. And our life changing situation with me as his full time carer is not what we envisage for our retirement. I really relate to Michael Palin's diaries, having kept a daily diary since we were married 46 years ago and I love this idea. She says, my husband and myself roughly took it in turns to write the diary and I continue doing this on my own since his stroke. It's a delight for us both as I read them back to him now, the entries that is, especially his own entries full of words and his wonderful wit and it takes us back to the very happy times with our family. We have very little of his

recorded voice so these diary entries of his maybe sometimes seeming a chore, well they're a blessing now. He can recall and laugh with me at his own witticisms." And I think that's wonderful to have. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, a really beautiful thing to have as a record of your time together. Not all of which will have been idyllic, but which now just properly resonates with you both. And I just think it's a lovely, lovely thing to be able to do together, Jackie. So thank you for telling us about that and I'm sorry things are so tough at the moment. That cannot be easy at all.

She does say last week, actually, our husband had a wisdom tooth infection and an extraction and was bunged on amoxicillin at the same time as me. So she finally thought, right, I'm going to interview those silly old birds. Not interview, what have I just said? It did say interview. Yes, contact.

Contact or email. That's it, Thank you, P. And Jackie, thank you. And I'm sorry that your husband had the infected tooth thing going on as well. But also, Jane, it's just the cruelest thing, isn't it, when you've been with someone and you've had that luxury of conversation and it's taken away from you and you just know that there are so many things you could be talking about throughout the day.

I think that's such a painful, painful thing. And also that struggle from the person who's had the stroke, who, you know, they've got it all going on in their head, but they just can't get it out to you. I think that's such an incredibly challenging way to be living your life. So, yeah, what a wonderful thing to be able to go back to. I'd like to end on pants, if that's okay. Well, it's a plea from someone.

It is and I think our listeners will be able to help enormously. This is from Anonymous in, would you like another Australian accent? I think you've peaked. Okay. I'll just do it in my home county's accent then. It's from from anonymous in Perth, Western Australia. You just couldn't resist. I cannot find good knickers. I try all kinds, pairs my friends recommend, my greedy bottom seems to spend the day gobbling them up or I look as if I'm wearing a nappy. Do you or your listeners have any recommendations for the perfect pants? I grew up near Oxford. Well, that's a good bit of detail and that does help. Upon every trip home to the UK, I very much look forward to raiding the underwear section in M&S along with the sandwich aisle

Wensleydale Chutney on the list. Also, what do I do with the pairs I buy that are uncomfortable and never to be worn again, I have a drawer full full. Well I'm going to do a little bit of research for you Anonymous in Perth in Western Australia because there is a charity to whom you can donate your underwear and is specifically for women who are living in refugee camps because you're often not allowed to donate your underwear to normal charity shops they they have to throw it out just for hygiene reasons and stuff. But there is a charity that does pants and bras for women who don't have access to them.

So I will dig that out for you and I'll either give it to Jane because I'm not here next week actually, or I will have it ready for you in the first podcast we do on our return together. But Perfect Pants, you're fond of just the very, very big ones. Where are they from? Absolute Whoppers, from that well-known store as previously referenced by our contributor. Liddle. Buying your pants at Liddle.

Oh, sorry. And I don't think they do pants, although there is a new big little that's open near me and I'm going to pay it a visit very soon, so stand by for details. I have recently, I'm new to the no chafing, almost long john pant and they're excellent. So what I've started to do, just for comfort reasons, is I wear my normal pants because I do like a matching set. So we've had that, I still find that bizarre. And then I'm wearing the cycling shorts over the top of them every day and it is wonderful.

I feel tucked in, I feel held. But they're not Spanx, they're not that tight, they're not restrictive at all. But you can buy them absolutely everywhere now because actually lots of girls wear them for reasons of safety around periods and also if they are wearing the short skirt of the school uniform it's quite handy to have the cycling shorts underneath. So I find the combo anonymous in Perth and Western Australia and because then nothing disappears up your bottom. Try the combo anonymous and let us know how you get on. I do think it's one of the great wonders of our modern day that you can see the words period pants in all good stores. They actually have the sign up

and that just wouldn't have happened 10 years ago and I just think it's brilliant. A great breakthrough. It might help women in menopause as well I guess. So explore the wonderful world of the period pant if you haven't already. Let's just end on cricket tease. This is from a listener, we'll keep her anonymous. Her husband says, or she says her husband loves cricket and he plays. My two boys also play, so the summer term is full of training and matches. We live a two-hour ride, train ride, west of London. And I do wonder if in the UK we go back in time 50 years for every 100 miles away from a major

conurbation. It's a good theory. It's a very, very good theory. Quite early on in my husband's current cricket incarnation, he sidled up to me, there is really no other word she says, and said, I think I know what the answer to this is going to be, but would you go on the cricket tease rotor? There was only one response. I was subsequently sidelined by the cricket wives and I feel he has sympathy from his teammates. Post-COVID, tees were suspended and players had to take in a packed tea. When my husband pulled out his tupperware, a teammate was incredulous that he'd made it himself. His wife had driven in to deliver his own packed offering. There are so many ways to support family members in their hobbies but the cricket tearooter just feels anachronistic,

says Anonymous. I'm genuinely baffled by women who embrace such a segregated activity. I'm so with her. And let's bring in our guest, who I suspect would also say no to going on a cricket T-rotor. It is Kim Cottrell, who joins us live now, I'm told, from New York City. Hello, Kim. Good afternoon to you. Hello, Jane. Nice to see you. Well, it's really good to have you on. We are delighted. There's a lot of ground we could cover. Some of it is old ground. You've said

it all before, Kim. You've been asked everything before. So we'll focus initially, at least, on your new podcast. This incredible drama about the history of the CIA. It's called Central Intelligence and you play a phenomenal sounding woman called Eloise Page. Now tell me about Eloise. page and now tell me about Eloise. Well she's for me an unsung hero I didn't know who she was or what she'd accomplished I mean it's she was really in charge of central intelligence from from the ground up from its inception quite a quite a character she started out as sort of a secretary, aka mom to her bosses, and then from World War II, and then which our story begins, just them establishing the CIA,

and then ends at 9-11, these incredible bookmarks in all of our histories. But you see this woman as a young woman in Europe setting up her life just before the second world war. And you follow her story. She's the teller of this story. She's the narrator. And it's such a huge story. You think, how could this woman have gotten lost in the sense of we don't know about her. But throughout the story you see how invaluable she was to the CIA. I did read her obituary in I think the Washington Post just earlier today and that drew attention to her. I mean she was quite a straight-laced lady. She dressed very conservatively, she always wore white gloves. She was a Sunday school teacher. I mean you take one look at her and there was

nothing to indicate where she'd been, what she'd done. I mean just incredible. Well that's, she actually, that's why she would make a perfect spy. Yeah that's true, of course. You just see her as non-threatening, you see her as just a, you know, and she is in this story of flying the wall of these extraordinary events in our history. And you've come to realize, you know, how we got into the place we are now because of these decisions,

some thought out, some not, some, a lot of this was, you know, flying by the hip. They just didn't really understand what they were doing. It was through trial and error. And there's no way, unless you had untold wealth, that you could make a TV version of her life story, is there? Well I think it would be incredibly expensive. It's such a big story. From continent to continent. think it would be incredibly expensive. It's such a big story.

From continent to continent. And to ask the question, I hope it doesn't seem cheeky, people will be wondering why is Kim Cattrall doing a radio drama? Why did you do a radio drama? Well I'm always looking for great scripts and great stories, especially about unsung female heroes. And Louise Page is certainly that. So when I have no snob, I feel that if the story's good and captivating, and I as an audience member would be interested in it,

to be introduced to this woman who was so much behind the scenes, you never knew, she was almost like a ghost. But when you read about what she accomplished and where she was and with whom, you think this is an extraordinary life that I, a story that I wanna tell about a woman's extraordinary life

and how she was in the job for most of her life. She didn't have much of a private life. This was it. This was her home. This was her family. Yeah, she did love her dogs apparently but that was as close as she had to her family. Well, I mean a lot of people will relate to that. We were just talking actually about a body size, body image and there's a very powerful piece in the Times of London newspaper today, Kim, about the models walking the catwalk in the recent fashion shows, all of whom, well perhaps not all, are thin verging on too thin. I think you went to a French fashion week last year, is that correct? Yes I did, Balmain, yes. And what was your impression of it?

I found the audience for the fashion show extraordinary because thin, overweight, perfect, whatever. We were all just there to celebrate the collection. To me, models have always been very thin. That's the way the clothes hang on them. That's one of the requirements. So I've not really thought too much about it, but I also, I think about what the mandate is now,

and I think it's changing, and it hasn't changed for decades. So clothes, people on the red carpet are not just size six. They're expressing themselves in the fashion that they wanna wear no matter what their body type is. And I think that has to be put into the mix is that a lot of these girls want to be models

and that has always been a requirement. So that's going to be part of it. Has it been abusive? Of course. You know, you read these articles about women existing on crackers and ginger ale, and it just sounds absurd. But there is part of this that the clothes in the eyes of many look better on thin people than they do in happier people. So that's a requirement of the job.

And is that whole body image thing something that has dogged your professional life or are you one of those people who genuinely you're pretty much blessed, you can eat pretty much what you fancy and your weight stays relatively constant. No, especially after a certain age. I don't know what you mean Kim. No, go on. I don't know what I mean either. I can't believe that I'm here but also very happy to be alive. No, I think for most women, it's a negotiation. Yes, if I'm gonna have that piece of lovely cake, I'm not gonna have a big breakfast or I'm gonna have a smaller lunch.

I'm in front of the camera. So I'm aware of, I feel better, I look better, I'm being photographed. If I'm watching what I eat and I exercise I exercise every day at least for half an hour and that to me is not just a physical requirement it's also a mental requirement kind of resets my brain when I get up and Get ready for my day. Yeah, I feel better. Are you someone who follows the news very closely? Are you a news junkie? Yes, obsessively so. Well, how are you feeling at the moment, Kim? Well, a little nervous. Actually less nervous than I was, say, three months ago. So I have days where

I feel very bolstered and then other days where I think this will never end this stress where we're right back it feels four years ago you know this this feeling of uncertainty of and this you know this constant pull that America seems to be going through towards fascism it's it's terrifying terrifying um and is it something that you you talk about to, I was going to say to your showbiz pals, but that is actually what I mean, because you obviously move in a certain world, it tends to be left-leaning, you know, not sort of communist, but left-leaning liberal society who all presumably want a Kamala Harris victory? I don't really, my personal friends, I don't really have those kind of conversations,

excuse me, my professional friends, I don't really have those kind of discussions because I'm there to work and I don't want anything to take us out of the work at hand, which is immediate and time-crashing usually. It is, people are talking. I remember after Trump got in after his first term, hopefully his last, there was remnants of this feeling in New York City after Hillary lost and did not break the glass ceiling, that it felt a little bit like 9-11. That was such a terrible tragedy, but the feeling was, what now? We're in a different landscape now, and where do we go from here?

Especially as a woman, this is someone who vowed to bring down Roe and did, and put on three Supreme Court judges, which we're going to have to live with for decades. Yeah, I don't know if you're aware of Melania's memoir in which she has spoken out, you have to say impressively, in support of women's right to choose. Are you surprised by that? Yes I am. Impressed slightly? Well I'm glad that she's made, to me she was a bit of a ghost as as the First Lady. I'm a huge fan of Hillary Clinton and Eleanor Roosevelt, these extraordinary women. And I just never really got to know her.

I didn't think she was comfortable in any of the roles that she was put forward to perform. And that's just not who she was. So to hear her make a statement like that, I'll be a little late about the right to choose. Good honor, but I would have preferred to hear more of that when she was in office. And certainly she should have,

I guess she doesn't have his ear at all, obviously. Well, are you suggesting that they're not the world's happiest married couple, Kim? Far be it for me to make any kind of opinion about anybody's personal relationships. But it doesn't seem like teamwork with those two, as we have experienced in the past as a president and a first lady.

Yeah, okay. I remember talking to you, it must be, I looked it up earlier about eight years ago about your insomnia at the time. It was really having such an impact on you. Are you over it? You know, it's like any condition, you live with it and you become aware of red flags and signals that tell you, I got to put down the script, I got to put down the book, I

have to stop listening to the audio. I have to take just the time out and relax and breathe and go to bed. And when you're there, do you sleep? There was silence there across the Atlantic. I thought she had nodded off. I thought you had nodded off Kim, I do apologise. Yes, I do. I do sleep, thank God. Yes, I do. I do. Also, my partner is very helpful and supportive in reminding me that, you know, I've got to put down the book, I've got to just let myself go, let myself unwind. But, you know, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I want to know, will you sleep on the night of November the 5th? That's what I'm asking.

I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I want to know, will you sleep on the night of November the 5th? That's what I'm asking. I don't think so. I had a hard time watching the first and second debates. Yeah, this is extraordinary. Again, that we're back in this place of having, you know, this choice. It's extraordinary. Kim, it's lovely to catch up with you. I like to think that we'll just have a conversation every, I don't know, every couple of years so I can keep connected. More than eight years, surely. Yeah, it should be at least more than eight years. We've barely mentioned Liverpool because it gets on everybody else's nerves. But obviously

it has a very important place in your heart, doesn't it? It certainly does and it'll always be there in my imagination and also in reality, my family and the history that we have. So yes, love it dearly. Thank you very much, Kim. That's Kim Catra. Great to see you, Jane. And you take care. She's the ultimate live-a-bird, Fee. I was going to say. She really is. And the treat for the Scousers, that interview, she's the ultimate live-a-bird fee. I was going to say. She really is. And the treat for the Scousers that interview Jane.

Done by a Scouser, interviewed by a Scouser, listened to by a Scouser. Thank you. Kim Cattrall and it is genuinely, if you're not into radio drama and you think, well, I'm not sure, you know, it's all old fashioned. This is so slick and so well done and it's just called central intelligence and you can find it on BBC's out. Would you have looked forward to introducing that on the Women's Hour drama? I would have been happy to introduce that, believe me, because it wasn't about Eleanor of Aquitaine.

No, how lovely to hear from Kim Cattrall. Now you've got your parish notices. I want to say have a lovely week off. Thank you. And we'll be reunited at the Cheltenham Literature Festival on the same day as a former Prime Minister also makes his appearance there. Yeah but we're sold out, I don't know about you. Well some people say he's... no. Oh good joke. Well sort of, kind of works. Right parish notices then. Our tote bags are awarded this week to Deleth Lynch and Deleth's friend. That's impossible to say. Friend of Deleth. Jenny Elsie, Michelle Durant, Jane Williamson, Julie Sassen, Kate Robinson, Penny, Kate's friend, Kate Tudge,

Alison, Kate's friend, and Wendy Stretch. Now Kate Tudge, would you mind asking, or would you mind me asking if you're any relation to the store, department store, that there used to be in a place called Tenbury Wells in Worcestershire which was called Tudge's? I wonder. Okay, and Wendy Stretch, what did your ancestors do? The Book Club, thank you so much for everybody who's got involved in our Book Club so far. Do keep your critiques coming in and we will reconvene at the end of October. It is The Trouble with Goats and Sheep by Joanna Cannon. She is going to come in to be interviewed, so we're really, really thrilled about that.

Jamele Kerens is sitting in for me from Monday to Wednesday next week. You'll have such a lovely, lovely time and I look forward to seeing you next Thursday. Shall we meet half an hour before we board the train at Paddington? Enough time to get a nice coffee? Yeah, I'll see you in Prague. Yeah, okay, see you then. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and do do it live every day Monday to Thursday 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.