Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Stolen glances by the sensitive-gut kibble (with Jennie Godfrey)

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

It's Thursday and we're about to break up for half-term... Fi's off next week so Jane will be holding down - with some (minimal) help along the way. Before that happens, they chat about Dick Van Dyke, revision periods, CoolCats in a GoPro, and finding love in Asda. Plus, best-selling author Jennie Godfrey discusses her new novel T'he Barbecue at No. 9'. Our next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute. Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.You can listen to our 'I'm in the cupboard on Christmas' playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1awQioX5y4fxhTAK8ZPhwQIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producers: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is the most modern house I've ever lived in? Just think what's the most modern house you've ever lived? Well, Dad always lived in flats in Hong Kong, so those were very, very modern indeed. Oh, sorry, I didn't know we were doing it. I was just talking. But in terms of modern, modern houses... Well, I suppose the house I first remember as a child would have been built in the 60s. Okay. A little semi. Yeah, so... Yeah.

Yeah. I think the first house that my mum and dad bought, bought, which they kept the particulars, it was £2,000. Yeah, I do remember, I think my mum and dad's first house was $2,200. Yeah, well, you always have to go on better. That's Liverpool for you, what can I say? So this was in Sunningdale in... What?

In Berkshire. But you know what? I was just wondering then, back then, there wouldn't have been such a huge difference in property prices between the south and the north. No. There wouldn't. That's really interesting. And also the cottage that mum and dad bought, it had no...

inside toilet or bathroom. Mum was pregnant and she was still having to go outside to the shed until just before my sister was born. So it was definitely, and I think Dad did most of the work on it. So it was a real kind of, it was a bit of a giveaway even back then. But no, I suppose there just aren't very, I mean, there just aren't any modern houses being built in London unless they're right at the top end of the pile, you know,

at Hampstead and that funny Bishop's Avenue. Oh, that's so peculiar. that place. Or right lower down the pile and the social housing and affordable housing is such a scandal at the moment, Jane. Affordable's doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Well it is and there are just

ways that these property developers are managing to avoid putting in the necessary numbers of affordable housing units and stuff. By doing double planning applications and stuff like that we should maybe look into it one day and I know that there are

to too many people who've been crucified by these huge service charge bills, communal heating bills, stuff like that is terrible. It's a scam. It's pretty brutal out there. Yeah, it is.

Anyway, I don't know how we got on to that. Right, hello. Hello, hello. It's Thursday. Now, next week, we just need to mark your card. Fees on half term. And Eve is going to Berlin. Are you?

Later on today. Are you? I thought you were here next week. What's happened? I'm... Have you won the lottery? Are we never going to see you again? If I'd won the lottery, I wouldn't go to Berlin.

Would you not? Where would you go? Somewhere hot right now. I'm going to Berlin for the weekend. So I'll be back from Tuesday. And she's already made a rather poignant plea and asked me not to shout or do anything on Tuesday. Just speak really, really quietly. Okay, so look, I'm so glad that Eve is doing this because I don't want to do it,

but I do want to hear about it. So I'm chuffed to bits that Eve's going on a frantic clubbing weekend to Berlin. Are you going? What's the mega-meagrub that you really, if you like your clubbing, shouldn't leave Berlin without going to? Can I just preface that I'm dreading this week? Oh, okay. No, you're not.

A Bergheim, I think, is the one that you've got to face. Oh, I've been doing many times. I'm not sure we're going to bother with it. Firstly, because I don't think I'll get in. I don't understand that. Why wouldn't you get in? Because I don't think I'm edgy enough. Okay.

God. Seem edgy to me. Their door policy is legendary, isn't it? You really have to be. And yeah, I think it's often like a three-hour queue. Yeah, the right clubber. And I think for the fact we're just there for kind of two, three days, it's not going to be worth. I just find a nice old bar one.

Yeah. Yes, and a nice trip to a museum and then early to bed. That would be lovely. So Robbie Millen will be on the podcast on Monday. Yes, Robbie will join Jane. I'm Jane. Yeah. God, it's really started.

Robbie will join Jane and Hannah on Monday. And then the rest of the week, it will be Jane with me propping Jane up all the other way around. Last guest. It'll be lovely. You'll all have a lovely, lovely time. Can I just say it's my last ever half term and I love all of these markers because it's just quite a long two decades. through the school terms, isn't it, if you've got a couple of kids.

It can be. Yeah. So it is just such a lovely feeling, more so for my daughter than it is for me. But we are both relishing being able to say that. Well, isn't there another half term in May? Well, but it's not really, those things, because if you've got A levels. Oh, I see. You're not really, you've left school by then. Yeah, you pretty much have.

So you don't have to mark it in the same kind of way. So none of that, you know, restriction will apply for, I'm here on in and it's a gorgeous feeling and you haven't got a school project to do or anything in that half term coming out. Well, yes, yes, my daughter does.

She does. You don't have to, you know, as like my famous bust of Henry VIII that I had to make during a half time. No, because she's, she's, a,

she does her own work. She's in a final year. Okay, so she's past the modelling stage. Yes, she's got a portfolio to submit that. That seems to be a slightly terrifying thing. Do you know what? We had something that was relevant, didn't we? Yes, well, we had an interesting email,

and it's not the first we've had on this subject, about the double whammy summer where you've got A-Levels and GCSEs. Yeah, hang on a second. Let's just bring in Sean and catering. I've been going to the cinema for half a century or more. However, my abandoned ship experience happened during my very first visit

when the projector at the Maidstone ABC ground to a halt in the middle of Mary Poppins. Oh, God, this must have been awful. More specifically, says Sean, It was during step in time, the number in which Dick Van Dyke cavorts across the rooftops of London in a cockney thumbs under lapels manner

along with dozens of his fellow chimney sweeps. Viewing the film subsequently, I regard the mechanical breakdown as a bit of a blessing as that scene is it transpires superfluous and interminable. Right, that goes short. That's quite a controversial take on the majestic performance of the great Dick Van Dyke in that film with that accent,

which is still much discussed. but I had a bit of a twinkle old Dick Van Dyke, also excellent in chitty-chitty-bang-bang. So I've got a lot of time for him. Well done. Right. You found the email. Help from the hive comes in yours in desperation. Please keep me anonymous.

Happy, happy to do that. I'm writing to ask for some help from the lovely off-air hive mind. I've listened to your advice and reinsurances to new mums, but I'm on the lookout for something similar for mums of adolescents. We've got the double this year in our house, GCSEs, and A levels, but it's the A-leveler I'm struggling with. He was predicted the highest grades, but recently got some of the lowest in his mocks. He was doing revision for the mocks, he says, in hindsight, the wrong kind. I'm not sure I understand that. Generally, he's not particularly

diligent, and there is certainly room for improvement in his study habits. We've been talking to him about what he needs to do now. He will reflect a bit, recognises he needs to do more. He says he will, but then can't or won't turn it into action. He has struggled with his mental health and he is seeing a counsellor. My problem is his lack of action is making me so anxious. I'm trying not to be in his face about it all the time

but equally I can't watch him spend all evening on his phone. He's got high hopes for his future but it feels like we're watching him fresher it away. I'm really struggling to be supportive and encouraging without being overbearing but his lack of action is making me so nervous. any advice from the hive mind would be greatly appreciated yours in desperation well i don't think anonymous correspondent that you will be alone in that situation at all and it's so difficult isn't it because the

deadline is just coming and you know what happens on the other side of it if things don't go well it's not a pretty picture it might turn out to have been for the best in the long run but it's definitely going to be very difficult. But do you know what I would say? And I'm not going to bring my own personal experiences into this, if that's okay, because it's just not fair. I'm like kids. They haven't got a podcast on their own where they can whang on about their mother's parenting skills.

But do look out for the one that all our kids will do in the future. Which will be an absolute blockbuster, real belter. But sometimes I do think you just have to try and have, try and change gear actually and just have an adult conversation about what happens in life and how you're feeling and that to me is totally about being nervous about failing it's that horrible horrible I'm too scared to try because I'm not sure that I've got it in me to try

and to succeed so it's that shutdown mode which we do as adults I think way more than we realize, because we become much more adept at disguising that, the kind of, I'm not going to enter that race because I'm not going to win it. We've got lots of other choices, and we can pretend that it was our choice not to do it. But in this situation, they're on a conveyor belt. They are the sausage in the factory, and that's the only thing that they're going through. And I wonder whether there is a way that you can just try and step out of being mum and son

and just step into a how do you feel about failure? You know, let's just openly talk about the fact that this isn't going to work and what we're both going to do on the other side of it, kind of like you would with a mate. But it's very difficult, and I don't think as well that other people's parenting ever works with your own children. I think you can just have a listen to advice. I mean, I really do feel, I totally get that.

bit about the phone and our correspondent is seeing this I mean all let's just be honest about it we and our children are all addicted to our phone and it's but in this scenario the emailer understands that the lad has got to be doing something else just to make the next stage of his life a little easier just a bit more bearable and if he can just get through this and lots of us were not particularly good at exams I certainly wasn't but it was just a matter of getting to the next stage wasn't it really and then things, if you were lucky, would sort of click into place. And there were plenty of, there are plenty of people who do brilliantly well in exams,

brilliantly well, because they've got that kind of brain. It doesn't always translate into a wonderfully happy life or working life later on. You know, we're all different. Maybe this boy is going to do something brilliant in another completely different sphere. He just needs to get through this next couple of months. but the phone, I don't know whether you can literally get hold of it and put it somewhere else for two hours every evening while he attempts to do some schoolwork

but look I mean I could sit in my bedroom and I did as a teenager I was distracted by my smash hits collection it wasn't like I was there working I just wasn't with everybody else Yeah, I mean we just had different ways of disguising Yeah, you know, lack of work But I mean I did cock up my A levels I left school with one A level, couldn't go to university

I hadn't got enough UCAS points at all and it was a right old thump I mean it was a right Did you know you weren't going to get them? I kind of did because I kind of stopped working so I worked really hard on one A level

because I loved Mrs Rankin she was my classics teacher and I wanted to do well for her but I'd already ducked out of my music A level and I really flunked my history so you know I came to quite there was a lot of skidding involved

in that I stopped So I think what would have helped me is actually if somebody had sat me down and really recognise that situation, instead of just constantly saying, you can do it, come on, get on with it, pull your socks up, do this bit, do that bit. I think if somebody had sat down and said, it's just not going to work, and this is going to be what happens to you, it might have had a slightly different outcome.

But who knows, you can't go back and do your childhood again. No, you can't. And you've done all right. Yeah, but I wouldn't recommend it. No, no. It just seemed to be an awful lot easier for everybody else who got their A-Levels change. Well, that's what I mean about just if you can just get what you need, then everything becomes that little bit easier. And I'm not saying, by the way, that that's right,

but we just understand that that's the way the world works, unfortunately. Although you wonder whether that will apply five or ten years from now when AI is doing everything anyway. I mean, who knows? We're at such a strange time in history, really, aren't we? And I'm sure that this mum's son knows all of that. Of course. So there is so much coming at them.

And also sometimes ducking out of stuff is your own comfort blanket, isn't it? It is you putting up your own guardrails about what you can and can't manage. And so, you know, you say that he struggled with his mental health before. Maybe he really just can't do it, in which case I would say recognize that you just can't do it. Yeah. But it's very hard to do that. I mean, just to your point about A-levels and stuff like that, you know, I did get there in the end.

I absolutely did get there in the end because I took a year out and went to the University of Canterbury, which I know you're a big fan of, and often very envious that I attended. Because I had the rolling hills of Birmingham didn't call everybody, but they called me. So it did work out in the end, but it wasn't pretty the other side of that A-level summer at all.

So I just don't want to do that kind of owe everything for a reason, because it won't feel like that. No, because it's shit. It was shit. It's absolutely shit. And it's so, I mean, in those days it was so public because you had to go to the school to see the results. Oh, no, I think it's way more public now.

Oh, my good God. Everything's on the instant. No, but everyone's posting. Oh, I see. Everybody's posting. Yeah, yeah. But I meant in that moment of realizing that you hadn't got them if you hadn't,

you had to find out in front of other people who had done really, really well and were, you know, on their way to Merton College Oxford. Actually, I don't think I did go and... Didn't you? I didn't do it in person at all. I think I just opened an envelope. Because I was so short, I had to ask somebody else to find out what I'd got. Maybe she gave me the wrong results. But you did okay?

Well, no, you got where you wanted to go. Yes, I got what I needed. I didn't actually get the right ways, but they let me in anyway. So, you know, but that was different. This is 150 years ago. Things were very different then. And we didn't have the bloody phones. So yes, I did get distracted. but I wasn't addicted to rearranging my smash hits collection. That's the difference, isn't it? Yeah. I would spin some vinyl in the privacy of my bedchamber,

but I wasn't endlessly, mindlessly, pointlessly scrolling. But is it any different? Well, that's what... I mean, if you were still avoiding working, aren't we more condemnatory of our kids because we can see what they're doing? I don't think... My parents just couldn't see what we were up to.

No, I just don't think endlessly... They just smoke in tamper. so important me those. Endlessly playing a coloured vinyl, it was my favourite, editing by squeeze. Up the junction. Yeah, I had that on purple vinyl.

It wasn't the 12-inch, it was only the 7th. Anyway, playing that endlessly wasn't as corrosive as looking at endless, terrifying or self-destructive images on social media. No, I'm sure that's true. It just wasn't.

Well, punt this out to the, the hive. We'll leave it in Eve's capable hands next week to sort through and decide on an answer. I tell you what, lovely mum who's emailed us, I mean, you know, this has totally and utterly remained anonymous. Would it be possible to leave this playing in the company of, yeah, whatever good it might do? Your son's ears. Just say, you're those two stupid old bats. Yep. But I think we're also saying, you know, directly to him, you know, just make sure you're okay. Make sure you're not just so fearful that you can't try.

Yeah. And maybe it'd be better to just give it a little bit of welly, see whether you can get over the hurdle. And lose the fear of failure, although, you know, as you say, we've all got it. Or just be really, really honest about the fact that it's that, because, you know, you just might need some different type of, you know, parental support than the

you know you can do it if you just apply yourself we don't know from that email but I wonder whether the other sibling who's also doing exams is completely different and that makes and the contrast between the two of them makes the whole situation even harder

it could do couldn't it? Yeah because sometimes you do get a rather diligent child who for whatever reason just their own makeup finds the whole process rather easy but most of us didn't and I'm so glad I've got that all behind me I mean, I think recently I've stopped having anxiety dreams about my A-levels. Oh, no, I still have them.

Well, you see, this is just really. This is what's so ridiculous. It is mad, isn't it? Oh, anyway, thanks for all the images of fat cats. Oh, yes, we've got very, very fat cats. Lovely, lovely fat cats. I feel I've shamed my cat because calls is up there in the display. But as, you know, he spends, my daughter said last night,

why don't we put a GoPro on him just because we are quite fascinated by what the animals do when we're away. But then we both realised that most of the imagery would just be of him looking his private parts so we didn't have once seen that from a cat's point of view. So we leave him to it. Another day unfolds. Consisting of what exactly? They're clean.

Right. Okay, that reminds me I've got to keep door off the new sofa arriving tomorrow. Michelle says, following on your conversation about teet holes and breastfeeding, I thought I'd tell you something I'll never forget about my night in hospital, after the birth of my baby boy 15 years ago. It was about 3am.

It was Bristol. I hadn't slept a wink for about two days. I mean, God, it is a terrible feeling that. And I was dutifully feeding my son. A brusque Irish nurse appeared. I'm Irish too, says Michelle, hastily, and looked at my breasts pretty closely and declared loudly,

accent, please hear. I'm going to attempt it. Sure, haven't you got great equipment? I still think about it pretty regularly. I mean, the nurse, I'm assuming it was female, should not have said that. It's just, but you're, it's a very, it's a curious time in your life, isn't it? When your bits and bobs are made so public that people do obviously feel entirely okay to make comment. Isn't it weird?

It is weird. So odd. On bringing babies into the office, there's an expression in Ireland when your baby is shy and it's called Making Strange. In Bristol, a colleague had her newborn in, and the baby was crying a little bit, and an Irish colleague asked loudly in front of about 15 people, is she strange? The whole room went quiet and turned to stare at her.

I'm still not sure they believed our explanation. Michelle, thank you for that. I've never heard of that expression, making strange. No, another of I. That is a very distinctly Irish, quaint, ordering on troubling expression. It is a bit odd thing. It is, yeah. I quite like it.

I promised yesterday that we would do just a couple more about the Epstein files, everything that has fallen out from that. And I would like to read a little bit from this anonymous correspondent. Thank you for discussing the problematic obsession with the downfall of a few powerful men, as well as the lack of men addressing the systemic abuse of women and girls that has been exposed in the Epstein files. I've been thinking about that we must remember the victim. line repeated by many, including Prince Edward. And I think part of the reason it falls so badly on

the ears is because it doesn't give us any sense that they really understand the severity of the immense pain and suffering of the victims. I find myself wanting to hear that they do understand the terrible impact of the crimes and that they are committed to putting their weight behind trying to change things. And you do go on to say in 2024 at the rape trial of her husband and 50 other men. Giselle Pelico said in court that shame must change sides. She is absolutely right, of course, but at the moment, survivors of sexual abuse and violence often do feel ashamed, extremely vulnerable and in some way marked by what they've been subjected to. I would like to hear more men put the shame of these crimes unequivocally on the shoulders of the perpetrators. I would like to hear more

men talk about how horrified they are by the despicable actions of other men. I need to see and hear and believe that not all men go along with abuse and violence towards women and girls. We both really, really agree with that. And this one comes in from Joe, who says no need to anonymise, not that I'm assuming you'd read this out, but just in case you do, I am a survivor and I am not ashamed. And Joe really does have the viewpoint that we all need to hear more about. I'm the survivor of child psychological and sexual abuse by yet another power.

man and the effect of the entire Epstein revelations weighs like a ton of bricks. I refuse to stop reading the news and comment pieces because it would feel like turning my back on my little girl's self, but I am compelled to read everything I see in solidarity with all the other women and girls who've been treated so disgustingly. It is so, so important that all of this is reported and told to the world, yet because of the newsfeed algorithms, the more I read, the more I'm fed, and I can't find any other way of describing it. to say that the life is being crushed out of me. And Joe wants to make a couple of points in particular.

One about saying survivor rather than victim, because it feels as though it gives me a little bit of my power back. And secondly, if you're a survivor of abuse, I am here to say it never leaves you. I'm 54, it's approaching 40 years since I escaped my abuser, and yet barely a couple of hours has passed in all these years where I haven't thought about it. So when people close to me are afraid to talk about current affairs

for fear of bringing up bad memories. It's well meant, but it's misguided. Openness and transparency is what's needed most right now. No more sweeping under the carpet or bystanding. Thank you so much for writing in to us. And I think in a combination of both those emails, we learn something, don't we? That actually if all of these people, when they're saying we condemn it

and our thoughts with women and girls, if they could find some of these points to actually make to show that they're listened to the stories and they are wanting to do it because the shame won't change sides until we know more honestly about what those crimes have done to women and we air it all.

So we're not looking at the survivors going, oh, I wonder what happened to you. If we know more, we will stop that thought. It's just worth saying at this point that Giselle Pelico's memoir is coming. It's all already been published in France. I think extracts have appeared in French newspapers.

I think the Times and the Sunday Times have got extracts across this weekend. I've read the book. It's called Him to Life and Giselle Pelico's lawyer is going to talk to us next week and that will be on the podcast.

What day is it? It's on Tuesday. On Tuesday. And the book, Him to Life, it's H-Y-M-N, Him to Life, is, I mean, she's beyond impressive,

Giselle Pellico, but it's her attempt, really. She wants to claw back her life. She wants to own it She wants to acknowledge that it isn't all bad, it wasn't all bad. Her family life wasn't all bad. Her determination to find good in her absolutely appalling experiences off the scale. I mean, she's a remarkable human being.

Her lawyer is coming on, so that would be interesting. It's a male lawyer who she has found hugely supportive, quite a relatively young man, actually, who was one of the two lawyers who sort of accompanied her throughout the trial. But I find every time that I see the survivors of Epstein and they were in Congress yesterday, weren't they? They were all seated behind Pam Bondi, whose performance I thought was just...

God, she's awful. Isn't she dreadful? She's just awful. So she was trying to defend the Trump administration and the Department of Justice's handling of the release of the Epstein files, which undoubtedly is shite. You know, it is...

Do you think they've got something to hide? Well, you know, there are still so many names of the men redacted, but there are so many images of the women not. It's kind of like, you know, how can you defend that? And she was just really, really aggressive and she wouldn't turn around to look at the survivors. And I just thought, oh my God, to, you know,

to be able to go into that room, to have your life discussed like that, and to have so much of your attempt at justice denied by somebody, it was just... And a woman? Yes, just so extraordinary. But they never, you know, failed to impress me in their determination

to just change things for the better. Absolutely phenomenal, phenomenal bunch of women. Yeah, absolutely incredible. And it goes, I mean, people will remember that Giselle Pelico was, she was put through it in court by the defence lawyers of her rapists. I mean, it's just, it is incredible. Anyway, what went on there? And if anybody's thinking, I wonder if I'd like to read that book,

I can't comment. I mean, I wouldn't say to somebody, you must read it because frankly, it's very, very shocking and upsetting. Do I wish I could unsee some parts of that book? Yes, I do. I think the thing to do sometimes, if you can, you know, if you can spare the money, buy it, don't read it, just buy it. You know, you don't have to read.

You and I buy lots and lots of books that we start reading. We don't like and we don't make a kind of thing of it at all. I think I'll probably buy it and not read it. Yeah. I mean that's also that's a good point you're right if you can afford to do that maybe make a statement send it to the top of the bestsellers

and let's all make a point in fact that's a really good point I will order a copy so I've also not just got my free press copy but got a copy yeah and just pop it on the shelf I ended there that I might be doing payola I'm not we do get loads of freebies they are books let's be clear about that

they are oh but sometimes we get other things and we did get other things yesterday Yeah, I got a box of pants. Who did I? Which were immediately shared by other members of the house. They look great on him. I was going to say, not the cats. Because one would certainly struggle to get into the surface.

No, that's right. And the late in life love interest and myself, we don't live together. And I was just saying to Eve that it's quite funny because we've got this week off. And actually, part of my excitement about having half-term, office so I can have a few more sleepovers. Could you see him during the day as well? And because we won't live together until we're in sheltered housing because we've both got

we've got quite a lot of... It's complicated. Young adult children on the go and I'd be very interested to hear how other people are managing this late in life. Because we do have a little corner, you know, in cupboards in each other's houses where we keep pants. In a cupboard. You keep pants in a cupboard.

Spare pants. Yeah, so it's very sensible. I scatter my spare pants all over the United Kingdom. It's quite studenty, though. That's what it feels like. It does. It does. Can I say?

It probably keeps the spark alive. Quite possibly. Not that I'm any expert. It needs to be made very clear. A poor display so far by Team GB in the Winter Olympic Games. Oh, Jane, I really feel for them. They keep coming forth. No, so do I.

But the ice dancers, who I thought were very good, came seventh. But the poor woman, just she did have a, I was watching it last night, as I waited for my salmon on crout to reach its perfect state. She had tumbled, didn't she? She did. And, I mean, the skill set there, they are so talented. I really, really felt sorry for it. I mean, you're a proud, well, you're practically Scottish, aren't you?

You're a Scottish adjacent. No, my mum's Scottish. I never claim to be Scottish myself. Did you see the routine? Yes. It's a Scottish tribute, really, wasn't it? I don't know whether either of them are Scottish, I should say. Did I stand up and...

I thought their Scottish dancing on ice, I thought, was absolutely phenomenal. Do you know what? I just really, I think it must be terrible to make a mistake, but to make ones early on and to know that actually... That was it. It doesn't matter how perfect your triple axles then are. We're back to the fear of failure, aren't we? And this is, I do think this is why these sports people have my respect

for exactly that point you've made, because you've got to carry on. You've got to carry on, but also you're only ever half, nanosecond away from balsing it all up for yourself. Yeah, it is a strange, harsh discipline to put on yourself, isn't it? It really is. It really is. I've loved watching the Winter Olympics so far.

Really, really loved it. It doesn't make me want to do a single one of the sports. Half bit... Pipe. Exactly. But, you know, sometimes. So we went to see the Olympics when it was the London 2012 games. In fact, only the Paralympics.

We couldn't get tickets for the actual Olympics. And it does, it did make me want to do more. sport, but there's nothing about the Winter Olympics that makes me want to be sport. Well, what I enjoy is there are two great blokes who commentate on the half pipe. I was listening to them yesterday. They are speaking English, apparently, but it's an entirely

foreign language. The jargon. The jargon's unspeakably complicated, but terribly trendy sounding. I've no idea what them are on about. Do you think it's like a sporting ASMR? Well, it could be. I mean, is it there, where are they finding all these expressions?

I don't know. Are they accurate? Or are they, in fact, just making it up, but we're just going with it because we don't know how to challenge it. They could make a massive cock-up, and I don't think that anybody, I don't think even Claire Balding would know. No. She's had a terrible cold, hasn't she? All week. She will go to these chilly places.

What does she expect? Anyway, I'm entertained by Michaela and Sue in the vineyards of the Lois... Where is it again? The Loire Valley in France. Where they've been holding their own Vineyard Olympic Winter Games. Thought you might enjoy our... our latest curling efforts, C attached. See at La Grande Maison Loire

for further wine-themed Olympic events. Ski jump, biathlon, it's all there for you to enjoy, boast, Michaela and Sue. And here they are, apparently, sweeping around a snowy hillside in the Loire Valley, attempting to re-enact curling.

I mean, I'm sort of half-convinced, but try and do better. I'm not... It's not as good as it could have been, Michaela. I mean, I'm giving you six and a half out of ten for that. It does look nice, though, doesn't it? Are you drawn to curling? Not really, no.

Yeah. I mean, appropriately. I know people are going to get really angry with me now, but I'm not here next week, so you can take the flag. I just don't find it very sporting. I don't find it very... I mean, what's the physical training? It's at the darts end of winter sports,

I'll give you that. That's what I'd say about that. No, I think you need to be pretty light on your feet. Because whoever's got the brush needs to be, you've got to hurtle down that. And you've also got to be a good skater. Well, you're not wearing skates. They just wear... Are they? No.

No, they don't. They just got good grippers on. They wear kind of slippy shoes, don't they? They don't have skates. It's a ludicrous. Okay. All right. Anyway, thank you for all of your lovely fat cats.

We would just like to say, Anita, I really, really like yours. Yours is filling up that basket, isn't it? And also just, I mean, that's a cat that doesn't care. Just with reference, as Jane said earlier, to when we're being poked around when we have babies, I mean, that's a cat who's prepared to be poked. Thank you as well for all of your eagle eyes

looking for love and signs of Valentine's Day. And we've had some crackers in. Are both of these from Angela? The pork pie is that from... The pork pie is definitely from Angela. And so is the other image of a well-known supermarket. So in the well-known supermarket, as you go in, there's a big sign that Angela has photographed saying,

looking for love, pick up a red basket if you're open to meeting someone new. You never know where love might find you. Where is it most likely to blossom in a supermarket, do you think? I mean, nowhere near the bleach. It would be in the... Fresh meat or dairy. No, I think it's more likely to be in the bordering on a... exotic bottle chutneys.

Do you think so? That kind of luxury aisle, the frippery that just cheers up your meal kind of aisle. If you've met anybody in pulses and grains. Pet food? That doesn't know. Well, you'd be able to strike up a conversation, wouldn't you? What have you got?

Yeah. I mean, I'm often seen buying a sack of sensitive gut kibble. It's a good conversation starter. Somebody could fall upon you and say, you know, what kind of difficult cat do you have? I think you want to move quite quickly. past the medicinal isle section. No more anosol this one.

No, no. But the other one, do you want to read this one? It's superb. Yes, it was, where did you find this one? It was it in the window of a baker's shop or a butcher's, presumably. It's not, there's no flowery pink stuff around this sign. It's handwritten. It's handwritten.

It's very basic. And it just says Valentine's Day. Buy your loved one, a personalised pork park. Ask a member of staff. about sizes available. Right. With a message of your choice. I don't know why that's as funny as it is.

But I just wouldn't want one. There's something about the complete lack of care and attention in the sign itself. Because it's not done well, Jane. I mean, halfway through they've had to change pen. haven't they? Because they've got a much more chiseled nib. It's desperate last minute marketing that, isn't it?

Oh shit, it's Valentine's. What are we going to do? Judging by the size of the window frame, it's only, it's about kind of six by four as well. Yeah, it's lackluster. And also, what do they, how do they, is their message in pastry? Is it, what are they, how are they doing this?

Well, maybe they literally just get the same chiseled nib and just write on it. I'm going to. You're on a promise tonight, Ron. First of all, enjoy this pork pie. I don't know. Oh dear. I don't know.

Yes, enjoy this pork pie. Medium. Yes. It says ask about sizes available. It shouldn't be that funny. Annabel. Thank you, Annabelle. What a classy-sounding listener you are.

I hope you're both well. Before the butter dish chat runs out, oh, I don't think it ever will. I wanted you to see this picture of my aquatic animal twist of the traditional butter dish that features largely amongst our university friendship group and has done for 30 years. I can't remember who amongst our 14 strong group acquired it first. Probably me, I love a knick-knack.

But over many enjoyable evenings, the whale butter dish always got so many compliments that whenever an appropriate gifting occasion came around, house move, birthday, etc, we'd ensure that this was the gift of choice and it became a running joke. So much so that our WhatsApp group is now called Pod Squad, as we all have one. The only slight irony being that a traditional pat of butter is slightly too large for the whale to totally rest on the base

and it wedges itself on the butter. It's a major design floor. Yes, I think that's rather a nice butter dish. I've never seen that in the wild. So clever. It's lovely. It's a whale-shaped butter dish lid on a grey, kind of aquatic wave base.

I think it's lovely. It's a real thing of beauty that. That's the kind of thing that would turn up on the Antiques Roadshow and it would actually hold your interest, wouldn't it? It would. We have got a guest, but I just wanted to mention this, because you mentioned that. Oh, the Martha Mitchell.

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. So this is from Lacey, who says, I'm so happy to hear you mention the Martha Mitchell Effect documentary on Netflix. It's my sister-in-laws, Deborah McClutchie's movie. Deb is a fantastically gifted documentary filmmaker. I was so happy to you speak about what Martha went through. She was a very famous and influential woman

during the Nixon administration, whose extraordinary story had really been forgotten. The Martha Mitchell Effect was nominated for an Academy Award in the short documentary category. And Deb invited my husband, yes, the very same Farm and Fleet shopping fella to attend the ceremony with her. They were both gorgeous and not a bit of camouflage in sight. Do you remember Farm and Fleet?

This was about a year ago where Lacey wrote to us about her husband's impromptu shopping trip to the local farm equipment store, farm and fleet in Wisconsin to purchase camouflage thermal underwear. I do remember. And reading glasses with a built-in, very bright reading light after the birth of their third baby. Well, it's always wise

to react to such an event in that way. It certainly is. Welcome gifts. Entirely reasonable approach to it. The whole business. We did have a lovely picture earlier in the week, didn't we, of the woman sitting bolt up right in bed, breastfeeding a baby whilst a man slept very contentedly next to. Thank you for that.

I'm really sorry I can't remember your name. It was a lovely, lovely image. And it just said so much. And yeah, it just did. Let's just face it, it did. Right, have a lovely week off. I'm sure nothing will happen in the world of news next week. No, about it's about it be quiet.

I'll let you know. All right, I'll fit you in. Be gentle with Eve on Tuesday, but really be quite bold with her by Thursday. I think she can take it. Yeah, honestly, I really mean it when I say, I sort of do live slightly vicariously through Eve. Very much so, we all do.

She's living the life that we can only dream of. And that I didn't live in my 20s. There's no point me pretending. Take my brother away. That is Berlin, isn't it? That is, yes. And that's exactly the kind of music. Eve will be bopping about to over the course of the weekend.

I hope you go to a place where they play the Dooley's. That's great music that is. Right, let's bring in our guest. It's Jenny Godfrey. Here's the introduction which I've written. So be quiet. Be quiet, everybody. Sit up straight.

What is it like to be waiting for your second novel to be published when your debut went to number one? Well, let's find out from Jenny Godfrey, author of the bestseller, The List of Suspicious Things, in which two school girls... Oh, you see, this is what happens. In which two school girls, Miv and Sharon,

tried to track down the serial killer, Peter Sutcliffe. Her new book is different. It's called The Barbecue at Number Nine. It's out today. and it's set in a suburban close on Live Aid Day in 1985. Jenny, lovely to have you here. Fantastic to see you, because I've spoken to you before, but not in the flesh, so it's good to have you in the same room.

It's so nice to be here, Jane. I've been dying to meet you. Right, well, that's lovely. She's saying all the right things. I am. Now, look, I really feel for you because I know you're incredibly nervous about the reaction to this is your second novel, The Barbecue at No. 9.

Yes. The thing is, Jenny, that your debut, when you were an unknown, did the business. Yeah. Well, just own it. It went to number one in the bestsellers. So, do you feel under pressure? Somebody actually asked me yesterday how I was dealing with the pressure,

and I think they were expecting me to say, oh, I'm fine, I'm very chilled out, and I am not in the slightest bit chilled out, and I'm owning that. I'm owning the anxiety about my second book. why? Why is it so bad because of the success of the first? Yeah, I think so, but also it's the difficult second album syndrome and you never know how people are going to react to your words and your stories

but after having such an enormously positive response to the list of suspicious things. I think I just feel really nervous about letting readers and fans of the book down. I mean I'm an anxious person anyway So you know this just helps the extra pressure Yeah you've picked a strange life path For someone who's a little anxious Yeah I mean you are putting pressure on yourself Okay I loved it so I don't think you've got any worries

I think you're going to be all right Thank you It is just worth saying that you You only became a professional full-time writer Relatively recently you'd had a life hadn't you Yes I had had a life I was a corporate person I worked in HR for

25 years. In fact, I was interviewed in this very building for a job. To be the HR director for this company. Yes, I was. You didn't get it. They actually stopped recruiting for it. I really wanted it. Anyway, we'll probably have to cut that out. No, we'll keep it in. It's golden. But yes, so I had what I now term as a proper job up until I gave it all up and started to write at age 49. And during those years when you were doing something else,

something very important and clearly at a high level, as you indicate, were you reading, were you writing, were you obsessing about? So I didn't write, interestingly, but I have always been a voracious reader, like a really serious bookworm. I always tell the story of my mum took me to the doctors when I was about eight or nine years old to say, I'm really worried my child is reading too much and not sleeping enough.

The doctor said she didn't have anything to worry about. And that has continued that kind of being a voracious reader. So I feel like my apprenticeship as a writer was served by the many, many, many books I've read. Okay, that's really interesting. I mean, like you, I love reading and I will read pretty much anything. And I struggle a bit with the so-called literary fiction sometimes,

but I'll press on. But there's nothing like getting lost in a book. Are you worried that that absolute bliss, potentially, it's going to be denied to so many generations of our young people? Yeah, actually it is a big worry of mine. And I saw my godchildren who are in their early teens last week, and they call me Auntie Jen Jen. And they were like, Auntie Jen Jen, Jen,

why does English have to be on the syllabus at schools? And I went into some big enormous rants about critical thinking and empathy. I mean, I'm not sure they were convinced. But I really worry about the generation coming through and the ability to focus actually on reading as much as anything else. And losing yourself in the lives of others. It's bliss, but it also educations.

educates you, obviously. Yeah, and it's enormously powerful in building emotional muscle, I think. Let's talk about this new book because it's set in a very specific time and place. And if you're my age, you're younger, you're only in your 50s. You also, though, remember the day

which is the 13th of July, 1985. Absolutely. Margaret Thatcher's Britain. She's very much in her pomp. And we'll get on to her in a moment. But take us through your memory of what you were doing on that day? So live aid, it's actually for me impossible to overstate

how much it took over the entire country. I was so excited about it. And I was 15 years old, and I had a little black and white portable television in my bedroom. And because my parents were quite strict, and they didn't like pop music, I watched it. on my portable television in my bedroom, but with the landline sort of roped into my bedroom,

so I could phone my best friend after each act and we could discuss what we thought of them. And one of my biggest memories of the day was after Queen, because as a 15-year-old, Queen were not cool. That was kind of dad music. Yeah, very much so. But Freddie Mercury was so magical and so magnetic, I remember ringing my best friend

and crying down the phone because it was such a uniting, emotional, magical moment. And that's definitely reflected in the book. That's the one time in the book that everyone stops to watch the concert. I would urge anyone who wasn't around at the time or just as forgotten, go on YouTube, I did it myself. I looked up, Freddie Mercury, Live Aid, Radio Gaga,

your cry. Because it's a man absolutely in control of an amazing situation and atmosphere and riding it out. I've got goosebumps now. I know, so have I. You've got to see it. He's got tight white jeans and a white singlet on. He looks incredible. He sounds incredible and the crowd is singing along with him.

Honestly, it's life-changing potentially. So give yourself a dose of that if you're having a bad week. Yes. They're close. Delmont close. Yes. So we are in Berbia. very much so. And the couple having the barbecue, they've invited everybody in the close to come

along. Not everybody comes. And they are Lydia and Peter. Now Lydia is, well, she's someone who hugely admires Delia Smith and who doesn't, and Princess Die. She absolutely does. And she aspires to be Crystal Carrington from Dynasty. Well, I mean, I did as well. I definitely had the shoulder pads. I think I'm now more Delia Smith very much. So actually, I was, actually, I was then as well. No shade on Delia, who's obviously a genius. Tell us about Lydia, because I can recognise her. She's a character from my youth, actually. Nothing wrong with it, but the aspirational, slightly snooty, slightly vulnerable suburban lady. Absolutely. And she is inspired by a mum when I was growing up who, when I used to go to my friend's house and watch television, because that's

what you did. When we sat on the sofa, when we would stand up to go, I would be going, she would immediately, before my bum was even off the seat, be coming around to plump the cushions up. And I have never forgotten that. I used to think it was really funny, but also that it looked like really hard work. And she's absolutely who Lydia is based on. She is keeping up appearances. All the way. But there's a lot she doesn't know, even about her own family. Yes, and I guess, you know, not to make too many parallels to today, but it's kind of Instagram versus reality, but 80s style. You know, she wants her house to be perfect and she wants the appearance of the perfect family. But of course underneath that is a lot of imperfection and some secrets that she learns throughout the course of that 12 hours. Yes, she goes on a journey. She certainly does. I love her, by the way. Yeah, I think, I wonder if this could be televised.

And I'd like, I wonder who you would have in the role of Lydia. Who would it be? Do you know what? I don't know. But unfortunately, I think Alison Stedman's a little older now, but she would have been my ideal. Yeah, okay, that's a really good reference. I'll absolutely take that. Yeah.

Now, her husband, it's not a spoiler to say that he is someone who's under a great deal of strain. No. And he is going out to work, or so we think. Yes. But he's not, is he? No, and I, that is a story that I sort of remember from that time. I don't want to interrupt, but I know someone whose dad did that. Oh my God, really?

Somebody I was at university with, her dad used to go to the library every day. Oh my gosh, that's actually made me a bit sad. Because it is true, though. Absolutely, this is the 1980s. People were losing their jobs. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And, of course, our focus as a country was,

on this kind of home-owning, you know, self-made man, particularly men, self-made man. But that's not sustainable for everyone. And we were about to go into a huge recession. And I sort of wanted to capture that tension in the character of Peter. Yeah, well, you do, and you end up feeling really sorry for this man. And indeed, even his teenage daughter feels sorry for him too. Stephen Mangan, his reading him in the audiobook. Oh, how perfect is that?

Everyone's in for a treat. Yeah. There's a character called Steve. Yes. Who is, again, a vulnerable person. He, it's all about actually what goes on behind the neck curtains of suburbia, isn't it? It absolutely is, yeah. You can wash them in your glow white as often as you like, but you can never really protect yourself from reality.

Yeah. And Steve is someone who's served in the Falklands. Yes, and if there's any character that I did intense research, around it's steep. Because I feel like the Falklands is almost a forgotten story and particularly the experience of veterans in the Falklands. So I did a lot of reading of first-person

accounts, particularly of young soldiers who were part of that combat. I learned such an enormous amount, but I loved writing that character to represent a story I don't think is often told. No, it isn't and it should be. You're right. And I'm just trying to think who else we've missed out. Well, there's Rita, who's a, I mean, she's a divorcee. She's a little bit suspicious. I mean, Lydia is certainly very suspicious of Rita. And she does have a backstory and we find out exactly what it is. She's not quite everything she seems to be. But, I mean, do you think that is just the reality of suburban life, perhaps the life of any street, actually. Yes, I really do. I absolutely do. And when you said about kind of Steve being vulnerable, I think we're all vulnerable in our different. ways. And, you know, I wanted to write a book that showed empathy for everyone's stories from Lydia to Steve, but also the kind of breadth of human life. Because my family actually did move from the

north to the south, fate worse than death, when I was 10 years old or 11 years old. And we moved to a new build, Wimpy Estate. And there's all that tension. when you're moving somewhere like that of appearing to be a certain way to your neighbours, appearing to be something in your community. And I love the idea of reflecting that in this novel. You have written, and I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, in your substack about family estrangement.

Yes. And again, it's something we don't often discuss, but none of us have perfect families. none of us have seamless relations with our nearest and dearest. It just doesn't happen. But I must admit, I had not read anything quite as, well, soul-bearing and honest as your story of what's gone on in your family. Yeah, and it's really interesting that you should bring that up

because I started that substack basically when I was frozen with fear after the success of the list of suspicious things and couldn't write novels until I had the idea for the barbecue at number nine. I started that substack as a way of getting me writing again. But it's become much more of a writing about the reality of life as a middle-aged woman in a way that I don't centre myself because I think it's really important to reflect life honestly. And the whole Instagram versus reality worries me for young people, but worries me for middle-aged women too.

Yeah, if we all really think everyone's having as good a time as they purport to be having, yes. I'd be really, really more anxious than I already am. But, I mean, you do say, you have said, that your father was actually estranged from his family, wasn't he? Yes. You at one point met your dad in the street,

but hadn't seen him for a decade. Yes, I bumped into him in a shopping mall on Christmas Eve, and he didn't recognise me. and I just automatically said, Dad, I hadn't seen him for that length of time either and we went for a cup of tea in Woolworths in Milton Keynes and that was the first time we'd seen each other in at least 10 years and that was the beginning of us reforming a relationship

and I've always been obsessed with kind of families I guess, I mean it's no surprise given my own background and in what happens within families. And I guess part of my writing journey as a novelist is about exploring the imperfection of families, but with hopefully a little bit of hope about the future. Well, this is a hopeful book. Good.

I mean, it does end. I don't want to give anything away, but it ends on some positive notes. Yeah, which we all need right now. Well, we do, and it is a grim time. And I wonder, you've tackled the Thatcher years in the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher, as we should call her, for balance. Because I should, it is worth saying that lots of people voted for her and continued. And she won three elections.

Yes. I mean, that's absolutely, that's true. Yes. But before that, you'd done the years of the serial killer Peter Sutcliffe and the impact on a whole generation of people, not just young women. Yes. Are you going to move forward in time with your next one? I certainly am. Is it in space? It's actually in 1997.

Oh, now that was also a big year. Enormous year. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so this book, The Barbecue at Number 9, is set over the 12 hours of Live Aid. My third book is set over the 12 months of 1997, because so much happened in that year. And it's entirely through the lens of one. family so I'm getting deep into the family relationships on book three. Jenny Godfrey, I guarantee you'll enjoy that book.

Whether or not you have memories of that day in 1985, you said you had been to a party. Yeah, I went to a barbecue with them. I think it was, because was it our last year at school? Well, I just left university. Okay, so I went to university in 1987. Goodness to be. Yeah, so it would have been. It was A-level summer.

Yes, you would just have a little bit of year. Yeah. And I wish remember this, and I don't know why I did it, and I'm sorry I did it. We took a cake knife from the house where we'd had a party. Why? I don't know, just to be prats. We took it back. That's so strange.

It's just idiotic. I'm sorry. That's almost as idiotic as the really idiotic thing I did as a student, which is to steal a road sign with an exclamation mark on it. Anyway, it's pathetic. You did have some fun in your 20s. Yes, I had a bit. I had a tiny bit, but I didn't have it in Berlin.

So I had it in Edgberston. Okay. Let's reconvene next week. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio. Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.