Off Air... with Jane and Fi - That’s a substantial sword the lady is baring - with Vanessa Feltz

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Seven years of podcasting, and Jane reveals at last why handbags put her off joining the Navy.Meanwhile Fi’s asking: why isn’t there a Poundland on the moon? And, they’re joined by legendary broadcaster Vanessa Feltz.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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OK. There was just a very funny one that I just wanted to start with, if that's all right. It comes from Caroline. Are we up and running? Lovely, Kate. Thank you for making me laugh so much listening to Off-Air. Do you read that sentence properly please I know we're not at the BBC

but standards don't need to drift dear Jane and Fee thank you for making me laugh so much listening to off air last night regarding the moon landing I've got my own suspicions purely because it's been over 50 years since the historic event

and surely by now there'll be a Costa Coffee or similar outlet up there. Kind regards, Caroline. Yes, Caroline's with me. And she's right. Oh, she is. You would have thought there'd be at least a couple of, I don't know, betting shops, some pound lands, the usual high street stuff. All the ubiquitous stuff would be up there, wouldn't it? Yeah. And it's not. So can we all agree there was something spooky about those halcyon days in 1969 only i'm old enough in this room to remember but i was there well i was there remember yes but i was only a couple of months old well i was born in 1969. Yes. So for a while, I thought that I had a treasure chest of money courtesy of

the moon landings because my godfather gave me some commemorative medals. And as a kid growing up, I was only allowed to look at them kind of once every other year. They were kept in a very safe place. Yeah. And I thought, oh, my goodness, these must be worth an absolute fortune. They're the actual medals that were given to the astronauts. And I thought, oh, my goodness, these must be worth an absolute fortune. They're the actual medals that were given to the astronauts. And I always thought it was quite strange that Willie Tavia, my godfather, had them. But I didn't like to ask too many questions. What were his connections? He was in America.

OK. So it could have happened. Yeah. Yep. But it turns out, you know, it's a little bit like the Silver Jubilee commemorative coins. We all got one, didn't we? Basically, yep. But I do still have them and I do look at them from time to time.

But it was a bit of a disappointment when I found out. But I think that's proof that they did actually happen because they wouldn't have made all the commemorative medals if it didn't actually happen. You're so easily fooled. Me and Caroline, we know quite well that never, ever happened. You've been conned okay I've got a little treasure chest in which I keep my uh blue peter badge the bronze medal for life saving uh the felt thing that you could stitch onto your costume but I never did because I couldn't do

needlework and what else have I got in there some just some old coins. I had a much-loved great-aunt who went through a phase towards the end of her life where she announced there was no rhyme nor reason to this, that coins, she believed, should be pronounced Co-ins. Co-ins? Yes, so she just started doing it. And at her funeral, I did the eulogy. She died, she was 101 when she died. Wow.

And I mentioned that. And it was the thing, you know, you think you can get through this kind of, when you're doing one of these things at a funeral, you think, I'll be fine. You know, she was 101. I'm not going to wobble. But it was when I got to that bit about her sudden decision

that Coins was pronounced Coins, that I started to have got the old vocal quake. Yeah. I just thought, oh, just, it's just so silly. It was so silly, but it was so her it sounds like an incredibly posh version of coins she was a retired teacher so she definitely did have standards but um yeah anyway it's funny the things you remember isn't it in it uh can we just say a big hello to maraid

who sent us a lovely email, and thank you for that. And the PS says, I'd always thought that when I got around to emailing, it would be witty and pithy, but I've gone with from the heart in the end, and that's absolutely fine by us. Why are we not going to hear the rest of the email? Well, no, because it's one of those ones that's just been incredibly nice about listening to the podcast, and we don't do those just in case our egos burst. Oh, and yeah, there would be a horrific mess in the studio. Such a mess.

And then we'd expect someone else to clear it up, wouldn't we? Oh, absolutely. Well, no way I'm doing it. We've practically got royalty listening in the form of a lady who was once the proud occupier of the important role of Lord Mayor of Bristol between 2019 and 2021 and that would be actually Councillor Joss Clark around the time my child was at the University in that magnificent city so I very much hope she didn't

cause you any bother they certainly had some good times I know that much but there's a wonderful photograph that Joss has sent us. I heard your item about someone who was a sword bearer and I wanted to share with you both that I was Lord Mayor of Bristol between 2019 and 2021 and I had a sword bearer, photo attached. Is it the size of the sword that has given you the giggles? Because it doesn't even fit in the picture. So big. So tall.

So, by the way, Jocelyn, you look magnificent in your Lord Mayoral robes. Absolutely fantastic. A lovely, is it tricorn hat? Yes. And her sword bearer is also a lady wearing a beautiful, is it a black outfit with one of those wonderful white ruffles at the collar and I'm hoping it's not fur but what looks like a fur hat that is, it looks a little bit like a postbox on top of her head. It probably is real fur isn't it but let's just move on quickly from

that because that might not be their own choice. No, no, I'm not accusing the sword-bearer of any cruelty to anything. I suspect that was just the hat that came with the role. How heavy do you think that sword is? It's very, very upright. And it's very bejeweled. And very bejeweled. And it's enormous. And as you say, a good, must be sick foot in life.

Yeah. A substantial sword the lady is bearing in her role as sword bearer. I mean, don't titter, people, please, for heaven's sake. But it's very, very upright. So well done. And thank you very much. Thank you for the email. And if anybody else listening has attained high office,

we would very much welcome a photograph to prove your seniority. I mean, if you're listening to this, Joss, you're probably not senior anymore. But although Joss is still very much embroiled in local politics, she's the leader. Oh, no, perhaps she was the leader of the Liberal Democrat group. Oh, no, she is the leader of the Liberal Democrat group in Bristol. Sorry, we got there in the end, everyone. Listen, I don't think it's not an unfair observation to say

I think there are quite a few Liberal Democrats down that neck of the woods, aren't there? So there we are. Have you ever been drawn to a profession because of the uniform that you'll be able to wear? Well, yes, because I did want to be in the Navy. Did you? Yeah. How has it taken seven years of podcasting for you to reveal that? for you to reveal that because you know when you're at that stage where i mean you're when you're very young and you're suddenly your people keep asking you do you have any idea what you're going to be when you're older and do they ask it in that voice well they it was that was the voice

of the sort of irritant middle-aged interfering friend of your parents who'd start bombarding you with these sorts of questions when you were about 14 15 so i duly inspired or irritated by their inquiries i sent off for some leaflets and one of which was about being in the navy because in liverpool you did to be fair you did see obviously you go past the docks you'd see lots of ships and it seemed like a the possibility of an interesting life only the bad news came back with the leaflet quite a lot of the stuff they sent you um was that i'd have to have a handbag as part of the official Wrens uniform because they were sort of quite distinct from the rest of the Navy. The women, they didn't sail in the end. They didn't go on ships in those days.

So it did seem to be a trifle limited. Why were you put off by a handbag? I didn't want to wear the handbag. It was one of the things I dreaded about being a grown woman were two things, handbags and tights. Oh, I'm with you on tights. Yeah, I just thought,

I don't want to wear bloody tights. But I think I was drawn to adulthood because of a handbag. Well, this didn't appeal to me. Perhaps anybody listening who joined the Wrens or has served in the Navy can tell me more about it. But I'm afraid I was instantly put off

at the prospect of a desk job in Portsmouth. I just thought, well, I may as well stay in Liverpool. There's no point, is there? So you didn't really want to be in the Navy then? Well, not as it turned out, no. But I did send off for a pamphlet. I bet you sent off for some pamphlets, didn't you? Well, there

were lots of pamphlets. Because this is what you had to do pre-internet, wasn't it? Yeah, in the dusty careers room, which also doubled up as the home for dead textbooks in our school. So it had that kind of fusty smell about it. And it was a corner room that got all the sunlight. And there's a point to this, which is just you went in there and within about 20 minutes you wanted to have a doze

because it was always really warm. You certainly didn't want a career. And it had kind of low-level seating because you were meant to be reading through all the pamphlets and deciding what you wanted to have a doze because it was always really warm. You certainly didn't want a career. And it had kind of low-level seating because you were meant to be reading through all the pamphlets and deciding what you wanted to be. Everyone just went to sleep. So the pamphlets were... Well, they were quite sort of jointly. They were teaching and they were nursing and...

My life as a podiatrist, that sort of thing. Exactly, that sort of thing. And then there was some, I think there was some, you know, maps and tourist guides to cities, other cities you could just go and live in. And I don't remember ever being staffed that room. I think you were just kind of sent in in the sixth form to just go and spend half an hour in the careers room.

But I may be doing it down. And, you know, other people might remember, you know, a much kind of firmer hand on the grasp of our futures at St Swithin's school for girls but I don't. Let's hear it for the old St Swithin's. Anyway Jane has sent a lovely thoughtful email about trying to breastfeed twins so this is after our recent lovely interview with Joanna Walfarth about breastfeeding. And Jane just describes this fantastic kind of pose that she had to adopt, which is basically like holding two rugby balls under each arm

with the babies then attached in the front. And that's the only way that she could manage to do it. So she could feed them both at the same time? For a while, but then I think the exhaustion sets in and just trying to produce that amount of milk all at the same time for a while but then i think the exhaustion sets in and just trying to produce that amount of milk all at the same time slightly defeated her but also the lovely point of jane's email apart from describing that is to say that joanna's words really resonated with me and she was absolutely right about women pitting against each other in groups it's so

negative and harmful my lovely daughter sophie has recently discovered she's pregnant with our first grandchild. And I will do everything, says Jane, to support her and encourage her to follow her instincts and not be overwhelmed by the pressure of others. She's on the other side of the world in New Zealand and has been feeling quite wretched as she's suffering with, I can never say this properly, hyperemesis gravidarum. It's the really nasty sickness, isn't it? It's what Kate Middleton had. Yeah. I think she's, isn't she the Princess of Wales now? Yes.

Yeah. So a shout out to her would be greatly... Royal expert. Appreciated. I love her so much. That's her daughter, not Kate. And I can't wait to get out there to see and hug her and help her in any way I can.

FaceTime just doesn't cut it. She loves the podcast and she got me onto the previous one during Covid and I've been with you ever since you have great guests but it's your banter that makes me laugh out loud and she has asked us to say a very special hello to Joanna we're so delighted to do that it must be so horrible to be a long way away from your daughter just at the time when you know that you want to pass on those kind of wisdoms to her. So we say a big hello to you both. And obviously, I hope that that terrible, I mean, it's not morning sickness, it's all day sickness, passes. And I hope everything's OK with the pregnancy. But how exciting, though, to be waiting for your first grandchild.

Congratulations. That sounds brilliant. And best of luck to you both. Can I just do one about our fashion shoot? Yes, you may. This is from Sam. And the headline here, you've turned my world upside down. Dear Fee and Jane, like many listeners, I urgently sought out the style section of my Sunday Times this week.

A new experience in itself. Actually, Fee and I were so traumatised that I out the style section of my Sunday Times this week. A new experience in itself. Actually, Fee and I were so traumatised that I took the style section out and put it straight in the recycling. And Fee says she claims she didn't open it at all. So no, I can send you a photo. It's still in its green packaging. OK. Unfortunately, says Sam, it was not the glory of your raiment

which caught my eye as much as the simple caption. Jane Garvey left and Fee Glover, presumably on the right. It turns out that through my careless research many years ago, I've had you both the wrong way round all the time. Trying to transport each of your voices into the opposite body while listening to the podcast this morning has left me quite discombobulated. may have to i may have to resort to putting one of your magnificent photographs on the fridge with identifying post-it notes until i've got the hang of reality have a good week sam thank you sam um if you are going to stick a photo on the fridge make it the one where we're wearing the same dress. Like wet legs grannies, we're posing on these flying bikes.

Absolutely hilarious. And yes, please put that on your fridge, Sam. I mean, I tell you what, it'll put you... You won't be opening the fridge very often. You just want to gaze in wonder at our magnificent visages. I know it is funny when you find out that the person you thought was somebody turns out not to be, but there we are. Yes, yeah. Let's not

dwell on the fashion shoot too much, but just to say there is something a bit strange, isn't there? About if you're good at one thing as a woman, yes, you are absolutely

by order of the universe not allowed to be good at something else so do you know what i mean jane so we speak for a living that's what we do that's what we do yes and we don't make a great big thing out of how we look but you speak for yourself there is uh there is no sense that anyone believed we would be easily transportable into a world of high fashion. That's all I'm saying. No. And I'm not saying it in a kind of gripey way.

I think we were wearing... Because that's not what we wanted to do anyway. No, of course not. But were we not clad in wearable looks? But they weren't. Sorry, but you can't... You've never seen me not wearing cargo pants with bright green stiletto-type pointy shoes.

I'm always looking like that. Yeah. Look, I take your point. It's interesting, though, about women are only allowed to be one thing. And there are... I know I keep talking about these TV shows I've seen in preview, but I've seen these Paula Yates documentaries, which go out, I think it's next week, actually.

And she is a really interesting figure revisited through sort of our eyes in the 21st century she died in the year 2000 and she was very difficult to sort of pin down because she was ditzy ish but she was also brilliantly clever she was flirty but she was also somebody who wrote quite a lot about the glories of domesticity. Yeah, and she was a very careful and responsible mother of three girls. She was all of those things, but she was also beautiful. She had lots of very well-publicised relationships with very famous men. And, wow, did people take...

They really took issue with Pauli Yates. It was incredible. The treatment she got at the hands of some members of the press, some members of the public, and a hell of a lot of the female newspaper columnists went for her. They just couldn't believe their luck, really. Well, she had the temerity to leave a brilliant man. I put brilliant in inverted commas there in my head.

Well, he was a saint. Yes. Bob Geldof, yeah. But she was unhappy in that relationship. Do you know, I really properly, properly adored Pauli Yates. So there aren't very many figures that I really, it's no understatement to say slightly kind of worshipped in my 20s, but for all of those reasons,

she seemed to do something that other women just weren't managing to do. And she did it with such a kind of impish style as well. I thought she was absolutely wonderful. And my heart went out to her when, because she lost her future and her past, didn't she? Within a very, very close period of time. So she discovered that her dad wasn't her dad and then she lost her future with Michael Hutchence. I think actually he died first and then she found out,

almost within a week. Yeah, so where would you be? You've lost both perspectives on your life. They're really interesting programmes and they really do, a little bit like the George Michael documentaries, they take you back to actually around the same period of time. So George Michael died in 98. No, sorry, George Michael was outed in 1998.

And these Channel 4 documentaries this week are about that. And then Paul Yates is their subject next week. And she was absolutely treated in a way that I was going to say I don't think would happen now. And then, of course, you think about Caroline Flack. Oh, it happens all the time now. And you realise, actually, we haven't really changed. But anyway, you think about Caroline Flack and you realise actually we haven't really changed. But anyway, you're right.

It's women on the whole. Society needs them to be to stay in their lane and not stray. And you're right. Neither of us have pursued a modelling career. I think we've probably peaked in terms of modelling. I think we have. Yes. Yeah.

Pat says sorry at the end of her email. And there's no need to apologise. She says, I've tried your podcast on Times Radio, but I can't stomach the ads. Worse, though, is the music. When it plays, I jump out of my skin. If I turn the volume down such that the music is tolerable, I can't hear you.

So we're having a bit of a think about the music, aren't we? I think it's a little bit like the beginning of a Peloton class. So I wouldn't... It's a little busy. I wouldn't mind if it went down tempo, just a wee bit, just a wee bit. So I've put in for that and we'll see just how powerful I am. Do you find the people here listen to you? Well, I hope they do, Jane.

Not in a foot stamping kind of way, but in a collegiate kind of way. We've got a great guest, actually. You're probably thinking, I wish they'd built up. So let's tell us who the guest is. It's Vanessa Feltz. But we'll get on to her in a minute because we have got some cracking emails. Jane and Fee at times.radio. I really wanted to mention an email that somebody wrote to us.

They don't want it reading out, so we won't do that. But there's someone who has landed recently what is in effect their dream job and they're doing their dream job and they can't believe their good luck but they're also riddled with a certain amount of self-doubt and a bit of self-loathing and they come back from work in the evening and think oh i could have done that better why did i do that why didn't i do it a different way everybody will think i'm rubbish and um i really really don't want you to obsess about that because I'm sure you're doing really brilliantly well in your dream job and just enjoy it and go with it and I'm going to sound now like a complete prat and Fi is going to laugh and she's already preparing to laugh but it does

remind me of a quote I've recently come across the whole issue reminds me of this quote that i've come across very recently i can't remember where from einstein now please don't laugh because i'm gonna try i'm not kate don't you laugh either and i can't remember where i read it but it was something about um a consciousness that creates a problem cannot solve it. Oh, my goodness. So in other words, so self-doubt, which is her issue. She is not because it's her who's come up with the notion that she isn't good enough and you are good enough. Otherwise, trust me, they wouldn't have hired you.

It's going to be very difficult to fight against the issue that only exists in her own consciousness, if you like, because the truth is, in reality, our reality, we would not for one minute think that she didn't belong there. We would think she was brilliant and had every right to be there. So that is a very clever, I hadn't thought of that. It's an interesting one. But I wonder as well, given that, whether in telling us about it and us correcting it, that might help the problem a bit. Do you think if it's something that you admit to and you say out loud and therefore allow people to say, don't be so ridiculous or to say, that's exactly how I feel, too. Then you think, oh, OK, it's not quite as bad as I thought. Maybe it's one of those ones keeping it in yeah

just makes it worse and worse yeah they chose you for a reason yeah and i'm sure you're very good yeah i'm absolutely sure she is i'm very impressed with the einstein thing did you where do you think you were when you read that i have a hinterland i absolutely of which you know nothing were you thing. Were you in a mug shop? Was it on a tea towel? TK Maxx. I've gone for one of my rummages first thing in the morning. First thing or last thing. Sparkly sequins across the back of a hoodie. God, I'm really wrapping up. Where the hell

did I read that comment? It's very good. I'm going to think about that on the way home. I didn't get the quote right, by the way, but it's, I mean, I understand for the first time in my life, I think I understand what Einstein was getting at. Don't include this bit, for God's sake. I've got an O level in biology. No, no, please include it.

Einstein finally validated after a lifetime of people putting him down. Right, get on with it. Right, Vanessa on with it. Right, Vanessa Feltz was our guest today and she was in because she was hosting a panel to celebrate International Women's Day and the panel discussion will go up on The Sun's website tomorrow. She tells us during the body of the interview

who's on the panel. But we also wanted to talk to Vanessa just about her life's work and her work ethic and a little bit as well about what she's been through recently, because she's had a very public relationship breakup. So we started by talking about the work, and given that she is called the hardest working woman in British media, we asked her, when was the last time she actually took a day off? Well, I have holidays, like most people. I had, I think I had a day, I had a week off relatively recently for the last half term. And I went to

Ireland with my family. So I do, I do have holidays sometimes. But you are often dubbed the hard, most hardworking woman in Britain, aren't you? I mean, your work ethic is extraordinary. Where does that come from? I think it comes from fear of starving to death because you haven't got any money. No one is going to buy you lunch. My father's favourite maxim, and it isn't when you think about it awfully kind or generous, was who's going to give you a pound? And the answer was no one, not your father, of course, certainly not your father or your mother or any neighbour or anyone who loves you. No one was ever going to give you a pound. And actually, I have found him, unfortunately, to be quite right. I've had lots of people who've wanted to take a pound,

but not very many who would give me a pound. And so I felt tremendous pressure to earn the money and, you know, to keep working. And also, as you know, when you're freelance, you're always scared that if you don't do the job, or you don't take the offer, they won't ask you again. And, you know, somebody else will come along that they prefer or whatever it is, I don't know. So it's been a mixture of blind panic and fear of having to send my children up the chimney, I think. And does a lot of it have to do with being a woman? Would you have had an easier ride if you'd been a man? Gosh, I don't know. I don't think I've spent much time thinking of myself as a working woman. I think I've just worked and been grateful for the work and the opportunity and just wanted to keep on doing it and not spent much time wondering if

they've chosen me because they couldn't find a man to do it or they've chosen me because they thought I was better than a man who might want to do it I've just kind of I've just toiled away um without without examining very much whether it's to do with being a woman or despite being a woman I suppose you have just chaired a panel for International Women's Day, just a reminder there. And so does that kind of thing, does it mean anything to you? Do you think we should be having things like International Women's Day? God, yes, I do. Do you? Because I'm not entirely convinced it has changed anything or does anything.

I'm all in favour of it. I'm all in favour of anything at all that bigs up the sorority i like sisterhood i like other women um uh shoring up other women i like support from women i like women who network i've never been any good at it in fact i've never really known how you do it or exactly whether if if you tried it would be so transparent that people would laugh in your face and run away from me. I've never really done any networking, but I quite like the idea of it. And I certainly like something that celebrates female achievement and opens pathways for other women to think that they could maybe do the same or better or differently. And I like a ceremony anyway. I like a special day that marks it from other days. I like all that kind of thing. So I have been really pleased as anything to be the host of this excellent panel.

And actually the answers to the questions were incredible. They were exceptionally thoughtful. They were very, very different from one another. And the panellists were Nicola Adams, the boxer, and Kate Ferdinand, who of course was on a reality TV show, but is now married to Rio Ferdinand and is now the poster woman for Blended Families. And boy, doesn't she talk about them sensitively and modestly

and while acknowledging how difficult they are. She's absolutely terrific about that. And it's been a real beacon to other families struggling through. She's great. Nicola Adams was superb, incredibly funny and charming and self-effacing and having been the first and the best at absolutely everything and just absolutely smashed it out of the park. You'd think all she'd really done was gone and made an egg sandwich

or something and sat down on the sofa. She's really, really great. And then we had Montana Brown, who was on Love Island in 2017 and talked about the coming out of the show and being absolutely assassinated on the grounds of her looks. Now, I thought she was a kind of world-class beauty and she was roundly and scathingly Christianized for, I don't know,

the size of her nose, the size of her teeth, the size of her lips, every single possible thing that could absolutely lacerate your confidence and diminish you. And she has somehow risen above it and she's founded a business and she kicked all the bald men out

and now she's just a kind of female-empowered business. I mean, I thought she was great, very articulate, very funny, really nice. Is still friendly with all her school friends and talked about that and talked about when she was at her lowest, resurrecting her hobbies from her youth, like singing in a chamber choir and things like that, and getting incredible solace and sustenance from doing the things that had made her happy before reality TV. So I really liked her. And we had Sarah Dines on it as well. before reality tv so i really liked her and we had sarah dines on it as well and she's the the minister kind of sort of campaigning against domestic violence and fgm and forced marriages and that kind of thing she went to a comprehensive school um lots of people said that she couldn't

succeed as a barrister but she did her mum said you can be anything you want to be and you're as good as anyone girl and she was and she is and she's mum of four boys and she was great and i just thought they were four very different voices and when you're the chair it's brilliant because if you don't want to answer any of the questions you just don't so I just didn't for quite a lot of them so that was good. Do you think that on International Women's Day it's also worth considering what a male panel of a similar kind of backgrounds would have to say because increasingly with that misogyny that we are becoming i think more aware of uh there is a danger isn't there in women talking to women without men being in the room they are the people who need to hear us most at the moment

funnily enough there were some men in the room and they were very quiet so i don't know what they were thinking certainly it was all being filmed so it's going to be um you know it's being discussed on your show now it's going to be you know put out in various other media outlets so there will be men who can enter the room metaphorically and hear what women had to say do i think there should have been one token man made to walk the plank or or suffer some kind of terrible embarrassment to make up for all that we've suffered at their hands yeah Yeah, of course I do. And I can think of a very good candidate for that, but I definitely wouldn't stoop so low as I'm being so dignified.

So I wouldn't say who, but yeah, yup. You're not. No, never lose your dignity. Definitely not. Can we just talk about actually the aspect of the criticisms that Montana Brown has had to face up to? It is ludicrous, isn't it? How damaged we can all be

by some lumpen oaf of an individual out there somewhere on the internet having a go at our appearance. Yes. It's just madness. And when will it stop? When will we stop caring about that kind of rubbish? I don't know. It's a hell of a good question. I got my comments on Instagram switched off. So if anybody wishes to call me something revolting, I don't

have to hear it. And I don't see why I should. I liken it to, you know, whoever it was who went to see his therapist and said, every single day I go and see my father and he punches me in the face. And the therapist said, well, how about you don't go and see your father? So I reckon if every time you look on social media, there are people saying horrible things about you why not switch it off and i switch mine off so i think everybody loves me on instagram they adore me yeah certainly no one tells me they don't because they can't and that's how it should be but what drives that person to sit wherever they might be it could be at home could be on the underground could be on the bus and they they ping it out there what do they think they're doing and why and And how do they justify it to themselves?

I don't know if they even think it through. I don't know. I think it's the kind of thing that people used to say to other human beings while watching telly. So Cilla Black would come on and you'd say to your mum, oh, I could never stand her. Or, you know, who does she think she is? Or why is her hair that colour?

Or blimey? Or whatever it is. But now you're not doing that because there's no communal watching of telly and everybody's split up from everybody else. You're probably living on your own. You see something or think something or read something. It ignites some horrible feelings of inadequacy or jealousy or malevolence or power in you. And you just shoot off some horrible message about the person. Normally in the old days, it would have been lost in the ether between you and your noxious mother together,

sitting there like horrible harpies dissecting total strangers in your living room well now you can you can send that message whizzing towards the eyes and ears of the person that you're thinking about i mean it it gives you a kind of fake empowerment but obviously as the as the potential object of those nasty messages i think you can empower yourself by switching them off and not reading them then they're irrelevant because you haven't seen them i think that's quite good and what do you think you would have been like and what would your attitudes have been if you were a young woman and that had been happening to you because in a sense we're all slightly lucky I think that we didn't live our 20s

with that kind of glare and that kind of social media. Well, I didn't have social media, but I got famous when I was about 30-odd. And I had all kinds of utterly poisonous things written about me, largely about my appearance. You know, breasts like World War I barrage balloons. She looks like the woman who ate her audience. And this would be written by women sometimes. Sometimes women and sometimes men. Perfect face for radio, gold as green hair, all kinds of things.

And you can see I remember them. This is a thing. And in some cases, I've been famous for about 35 years. Do you remember any of the comments saying that you were really good at your job? I wish I did. I remember the horrible ones because they're so vivid and because they kind of burn themselves onto your consciousness in a particular way you can never quite get rid of them.

But I became, I mean, not inured to and not really used to, but familiar with the experience of total strangers saying horrible things about me, usually based on my appearance, sometimes other things. And it isn't easy. It's horrible. Sometimes people ask me interviewers say well have you developed a rhinoceros hide and the answer is no of course not how do i feel about it i feel just like anybody else would feel feel horrible do you believe that you're good

at what your job oh yeah yeah good yeah i do i think i'm good at my job sure i do yeah good at my job yes i thought you meant good as a human being. Am I a good person? No, no, we'll assess that later. I was about to tussle with that one. I was thinking, gosh, do I? Well, no, that's an even better question. Are you good, Vanessa? Are you good? I think I am. I think I'm a good girl.

I mean, I think I'm trying to be a decent person, you know, and I think people who work with me very often, if I've ever changed jobs, people come with me from different companies and even moving all the way across the country. I think that's a good sign. I mean, I've tried to be a decent person. I hope people...

Often I do meet people who say, you know, I met you in 1983 and you lent me your hairbrush or you gave me a paracetamol or you helped me do that. And I'm always, I think, oh, thank God I did that. Good. I can't remember it, but I'm really pleased.

So I don't know. I'm scuttling around for some testimony to prove I'm good. I hope so. I think so. Well trying to, I'm scuttling around for some testimony to prove I'm good. I hope so. I think so. Well, Vanessa, I met you. You won't remember this at all

but when you were working at GLR. Pretend you remember. Yeah, just pretend. I hope she's not going to say anything bad now. No, when you were doing Jewish London at GLR

which would have been, God, 30, nearly 30 years ago. Yes. And you were absolutely lovely to me. Oh, that is, thank you.

I'm pleased you said that. That's very nice. Jewish London was absolutely glorious. It was so marvellous. I used to call it the bar mitzvah of the airwaves. I used to call it British broadcasting with a diced carrot on the top. And people used to say at GLR, which as you remember was a very right on kind of station. By the way, I need to interrupt to say that.

It was the BBC's very fashionable local radio station. Yes. Now renamed BBC London. BBC Radio London. But in those days, it was, and I've only just left it. I've been there all that time, 33 years. And so people used to say to me, Vanessa, there are your guests over there.

Because my guests used to dress as if they were coming to a bar mitzvah. I think they used to bring their filter fish balls and their handbags. And honestly, mergers, business mergers took place in the lobby. People got married. All sorts of things happened.

It was the most wonderful show. We used to have a unicycling rabbi, Holocaust survivors, Jackie Mason, the Jerusalem Post, the week. So bake off. I mean, it was really fun. And that was my first ever show. I used to get paid 50 quid to present it. And I used to spend about three days a week prepping for it and learning how to do it because I didn't really know how to do radio. I used to write 20 questions for every single guest in case I ran out how did

you get that gig I was a guest on the show originally I was a columnist at the Jewish Chronicle and I was asked in to talk about a column I'd written and when I was on in front of the microphone I amazed myself by being far funnier and more interesting than I was without the microphone which was an absolute shock and then I said oh please god let them ask me back let them ask me back. Let them ask me back, please. And they did. And then I remember driving the car, little babies in the back of the car. And I'm thinking, oh, I've been on radio 11 times, been on radio 17 times. I'm paid. I'm paid. Didn't get paid. And then eventually after some, about a year or two years, they asked me to present the show. That's how. It wasn't that great. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen.

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And get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone you're listening to off-air with jane and fee and our guest today is vanessa felts we asked her where her younger self thought she'd be 30 years down the line i hoped i'd be married to my original husband and I hoped I'd be, I don't know, I suppose, surrounded by beautiful grandchildren and living happily ever after. I think I didn't think much further than that. But did you genuinely not imagine a career for yourself? Not at all. I mean, I was a journalist. I was, you know, columnist and journalist. I think I hoped I'd carry on doing that. But I know that my very first time on the radio on Jewish London

as a guest, I phoned my mum and time on the radio on Jewish London as a guest um I I phoned my mum and dad to say you know what did you think what did you think and um they said well what did your husband say you know is he happy with you going out in the evening to do that now how does he feel about it you know who was looking after the children and they didn't say anything about whether I was any good or whether I was funny or whether it was you know pleasure to hear me or anything of that kind it was, how does your husband feel about you doing it? That's why I like International Women's Day. Come on, women. Come on! Yes!

We're not going to go into your personal life, but everybody listening, Vanessa, will know that you've had a really tough time lately. And it just strikes me that sometimes women are harder on themselves than anybody else is on them in a way and we'll we'll come up with every excuse to blame ourselves for whatever crap has descended upon us do you believe that might be the case with you yeah i do i think i think it's uh i think it's hard if you're supposed to be a clever woman or think of yourself as someone clever and someone who's read lots of

poems and lots of books and lots of stuff about psychology and is meant to have some kind of insights into human behavior and then you have kind of placed your love and your trust and your and your your heart and your soul and everything else in somebody who turns out very very much not to have deserved it and you feel every possible kind of heartbreak obviously and every possible kind of pain but also you feel incredibly stupid and that's a horrid combination all at once when you're heartbroken and devastated and also feel like a complete idiot um so i'm i'm i'm doing my best to put my best foot forward and soldier on and and and uh you know i don't think anyone wants to hear what a rough time I'm having.

It's so boring. And there's nothing new or special about my heartbreak at all. And I've been to work every single day and I've had a television camera stuck in my face for three hours a day every day, including the day I found out. And it was several weeks

before it made it into the press. And I think that's the best thing to do. I think surround yourself with close friends, family, have as much fun as i possibly can the thing that upsets me most about this i think really is this my mum died at the age of 57 and i have genuinely found every single day that i've lived longer than her to be a gift i never expected it i'm thrilled to have it i'm pleased to be alive not dead of course i am and i don't want this to spoil it i don't pleased to be alive, not dead. Of course I am. And I don't want this to spoil it. I don't want to be, I know you don't get to choose whether you're grief stricken or not. I get that. But it's just such a shame to have this gift of a longer life and then have it so roundly squashed

and pulverized by somebody else. And I don't want to. That's why I'm kind of rising up and trying to really fight it and fight on and have as much happiness every day as I can because I mean I don't want to squander these days by being miserable what a damn shame right but I think the support for you is overwhelming I've I have read nothing but praise for you and sympathy and support it's really mattered to me a lot I've been amazed by it I thought people could very easily have said the absolute opposite, actually. So I am very, very pleased and very shored up and actually find it difficult to sleep at the moment, etc. And do spend quite a lot of time in the middle of the night reading all these amazing DMs and people tell their whole life story and what they've been through and how they've come out the other end. And I am comforted by it. I am. It does work. It really does.

So anybody who's taken the time to reach out, and my God, it's hundreds of thousands of people. I can't even tell you the number. There's an infinite number of messages every time. And I try replying and replying and replying, and then more and more and more. And I think 3.7 million people have seen the Instagram post where all I say is, you know,

I'm sorry that my relationship's over. And, you know, once the trust and relationship's gone, you got to move on. And anyway, it's best foot forward. That's all I say. I don't say anything else. And 3.7 million people have seen it and responded and God knows what. So, you know, I am, I mean, I know it's virtual, but it feels very real to me. And I'm extremely grateful for it. And you will not be defined by this really quite small period of time in your life. It just won't, you won't allow it to happen to yourself, will you? I don't know if you're asking me or telling me. I was hoping you were telling me.

I was hoping you were telling me. I was hoping you were telling me. You will not. Oh, you will not. I was going to say, good, okay, I won't then. I was hoping you were telling me. Okay, I'm saying, please, Vanessa, don't allow yourself to be defined. I definitely don't want to.

Of course I don't want to. No. Of course I don't want to be defined by that. I mean, you can wallow in complete despair for at least six months. I'm seven weeks now. Okay, well, you've got a while to go, Mrs. Seven weeks. Cut yourself some slack there. Yeah.

I think it's such an interesting point you make about losing a parent, because after that age, I mean, it's a real monkey on your back, isn't it? Totally. It's a very odd feeling. I mean, it's a real monkey on your back, isn't it? It's a very odd feeling. What do you do in your kind of darkest moments about that? Because it's your own mortality, isn't it? That's just knocking on your door.

Well, I wasn't having darkest moments. You see, I was thinking, gosh, what was my mother doing at this age? Well, she was dead. What am I doing? Well, I've just jumped off a motorbike because I got delivered here on the back of a limo bike. I'm just about to do a three hour TV show and radio show here at my new job at news uk i'm going out tonight with a really good friend i have just chaired this fabulous international women's day symposium it was great i'm about to eat a sandwich which i've hidden in my bag because i haven't had a chance to eat anything all day of course i'm trying not to eat which has been one of

the other underlying pressures of my life just do not eat and what about don't drink don't eat don't do anything i'm trying not to do anything unwise. Also not to be too wise. If I ever get the opportunity to be less wise maybe I'll take it, I don't know. But I'm trying to not have any dark, deep thing in me, Bob. You are a brilliant, clever woman and you've got to

be that person. I am trying to. I am not a trained therapist. Do I look as if I need therapy? I obviously do. Nobody needs it from me. Oh my God. What are your hopes then for the next five, ten years?

Let's just leave that episode. Okay, I'm hoping for fun and laughter and love, adventure. I'm hoping my children will flourish and my grandchildren and be long and happy and beacons unto the nation. I'm hoping that my show goes from success to even more roaring success. I'm hoping to have all sorts of opportunities. I feel a bit like Lionel Blair. I once, God rest his soul, I once interviewed Lionel Blair and he was at least 85 or something at the time. And I said, Lionel, you know, what are you hoping for? And he said, well, you know, wouldn't mind a leading role in a Hollywood movie. And I thought, oh God, I mean I get it now I see why you just think well I could I could do that couldn't

I could do that I feel a bit annoyed that Boris hasn't ennobled me though wow why hasn't he got me on the list I was charming to him he came every single four weeks to my show at Radio London when he was Mayor of London we used to make him a nice coffee and everything and I reckon if he wants his father to be a Sarah I could have been Princess Vanessa at the very least I'm a bit miffed about that really well I think we'll ennoble you I'm not sure you'd want to be on that list I think that's a bit tainted I'm not sure this is the list to be on wouldn't I want to be on it no wait wait for the next one fake ermine obviously okay uh because it is International Women's Day uh I know this is almost an impossible question to answer. But if we've got younger women listening who are at the start of their...

Jane uncorking a bottle of champagne. Terrible wind. It's my age. Those are the sound effects from the sound effects department. Start of your adult journey as a young woman, what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given that you'd like to pass on gosh that's such a good question i think the best piece of advice i was ever given is do your homework so nobody can ever say she wasn't across it she didn't get it you know she asked the stupid question she didn't she didn't grasp it you know be prepared and don't think you know everything and i do think i mean i know this is a bit this is generalizing and i don't mean to be anti-men because i'm not actually i'm all in favor and all applicants should definitely

submit their credentials in triplicate right now um so i'm very much in favor of men um in many positions actually when i think about it but but i do think there are some blokes that i'm sure we all know in this business and industry who really pride themselves on knowing absolutely nothing. They don't do their homework. They arrive, they're not sure who they're interviewing. They're not sure why. They haven't brushed up on the subject.

They found it beneath them or boring. And you can hear the sort of hollow vacuum of their ignorance echoing as they ask the most inane questions. And I think they get away with it. They've got a certain kind of swagger, braggadocio, and God knows what that means. Nobody ever really challenges them. And I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be the person that didn't know what I was talking about and coasted through. So when you say,

are you a workaholic or whatever you ask me, do you ever have a day off? The answer is, of course, I sometimes have a day off, but I do work hard because I want to make sure that I'm worth it. I'm, you know, worthwhile. I'm work hard because I want to make sure that I'm worth it. I'm, you know, worthwhile. I'm not I'm not just a kind of waste of air and a waste of space. That's what I'm trying to do anyway. Vanessa Feltz, of course, and for once, the of course is entirely justified. The International Women's Day panel will be on The Sun's website tomorrow. And there's an email in already, V, about about Vanessa.

Yes, it says many thanks for your big guest segment with Vanessa. As a Washington DC native, I only stumbled onto her as a radio host a few months back thanks to the YouTube algorithm. It only took a few minutes to get hooked. Like you, I'm a radio lover and worked for a decade at NPR as a producer, but I'm picky.

Radio is about intimacy and authenticity, so you really have to like the host. And Vanessa has all the ingredients. She's intimate, but not too much, informed and authentic, clearly does her homework. Well, massively so. And perhaps most importantly, she's likable because she is and does all of those things. So please tell her if she needs the boost during this time. And then you say nice things to us. And Catherine is looking forward to 10am DC time every Monday through Thursday because that's when she listens to us. Isn't that weird?

That's thrilling. Because I think radio is so dictated by the time that you make the show. So I don't think we sound like a morning show at all. We're an afternoon show. We could be a morning show. Do you think so? Well, we are.

We are in DC. Yeah. But I just wonder whether that works as well. It works at all. Well, Catherine's listening, so she sounds like a discerning woman. She knows her radio. If you can give us some tips on how we could improve

and whether you think actually maybe America is going to be our next port of call. I think Australia's our next port of call i think australia is our next port of call isn't it we do seem to have a lot of listeners across australia is that where the giant uh giant hedgehogs are close that's new zealand yeah it's just a very very long flight i'd have to do it in about seven or eight different little hop skips and jumps i think i'll wait until the time sends me on one of their minor celebrity cruises and i'll do it that way. It'll take about six months, love. That's all right.

OK. Well, I'll stock up with the Baileys. Off you go. That's just the other passengers. I'll be prowling the decks. Did you snore? I did snore. Oh, dear.

We've lost our finesse, haven't we? And it's only Chores Day. Right. Jane and Fee at times.radio is our email address. We've got so many other ones to get through and we will get through more of them as the week progresses. Yes, and we should say tomorrow is International Women's Day and our guest is the novelist Donna Leon. That's right, isn't it?

That is right. And we will also be in the company of a town crier, a lady town crier. Female. Female, yes. There was some talk about whether we'd make the programme all female, but I sort of think we're both of the same mind here, that we don't want to make, I mean, it doesn't seem a necessity.

I mean, we're sort of doing our bit by being female, aren't we? Is that enough? Well, I think so, and increasingly I think it's just so important to not feel that you exclude men from our conversation because there are just some hints that we're dropping along the way. They're friendly

hints. I hope you've picked up on them. Fellas. I want to send another message just to Caroline about the moon landings. Don't worry about it Caroline. You and me, we know what really happened. Do you think the dinosaurs existed, Jane? You're ridiculous. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover.

Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can Monday to Thursday, 3 till 5 on Times Radio.

Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon. Goodbye. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar, double tap to open.

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