Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The great cattery in the sky (with Rick Astley)

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Jane and Fi recount their visit to Downing Street last night and it sounds like the Champagne was well and truly flowing. Larry the cat was did not make an appearance, but Hugh Grant was there - not that Jane remembers. Plus, they speak to singer and songwriter, Rick Astley, about his 2026 UK and Ireland Tour. We've announced our next book club pick! 'Just Kids' is by Patti Smith. You can listen to the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3qIjhtS9sprg864IXC96he?si=uOzz4UYZRc2nFOP8FV_1jg&pi=BGoacntaS_uki. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail]. Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi. Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And a guy walks past with a camel across the studio floor. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. What the hell? Why am I doing this? What am I doing it? Did you get the hump? No. Very good, dear.

Very good. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore? FIS is 100% online so you can make the switch in minutes. Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.com.

We need to say a very big thank you to the Chancellor Rachel Reeves. It's not often that we open the podcast in that respect. This is not displaying any particular political allegiance, but she was the hostess of the celebration of 25 years of Mumsnet at number 11 Downing Street last night, which Jane and I went to. I chose the ginger lemonade, non-alcoholic drink as my preferred aperitif of choice for the evening. So I'm firing on four and a half out of five cylinders.

I think Jane made a different alcohol choice and the cylinder count may be a little bit lower. Yeah. Anyway, look, never mind, it was a lovely occasion. It was a lovely occasion. And we couldn't resist the temptation. everyone who goes to these things, does it? They pose on the steps of number 10.

Well, I saw a couple of other invitees from last night who had posted their stuff on Instagram, posing front to number 10, but not everyone. Some people are really cool, but we're not. I was still like, we're in Downing Street. This is amazing. And I feel a bit sorry for the door of number 11 because no one bothers.

So it's like no one dreams of being the Chancellor. They should, by the way. But it was open. That was the problem, wasn't it? It didn't help, yeah. Number 10 was firmly shut. It was very firmly shut. There was no sign of Larry.

I was hoping to see the cat, but he's very, very old Larry, the cat now. But still going about is very important. I think Larry's... I think he's been replaced. What, you think that's an AI, Larry? No, I think it's just one that looks like Larry, but it's actually Larry 3.0. No, I don't...

I mean, apparently there's a big, big media campaign that will get underway should the time come when Larry goes to the great... Cattery in the sky. Right, okay. Well, well, there'll be rumoured. our very, very busy news agenda to cover that. Oh, God, there will, there will be.

We know damn well there will be. Just one word on Mumsnet. I think there was a sizzle reel, wasn't there, played before the speech last night. And I think it's easy to forget just how established it is in our landscape now. And you say Mumsnet and nobody needs it explained to them. It's a social media platform that hasn't had the same problems as other social media platforms. often the point is made that that might have something to do with I mean obviously it's content

but also the fact that it's predominantly run by women and I thought there was just a really lovely atmosphere in the room some of the clips of Prime Ministers being put on the spot by Mumsnetters was priceless in particular Boris Johnson Yeah what was it he was accused of just being a liar So Justine Roberts who is the co-founder

and was CEO of Mumsnet I think she's just about to hand over her baton isn't she? She interviewed him and she basically said that, you know, Mumsnetta's the biggest question they wanted to know was whether or not they could trust anything he said because he had been proven to be a compulsive liar and he just

that was the answer. Yeah, but he's got away with it all his life. So there you go. But yes, that was. It was a revealing clip. Who was the other one? The Prime Minister who struggled with favourite biscuit. But to be fair, I'd struggle with that because I don't

like biscuits. Gordon Brown. Gordon Brown, okay, yeah. But you are in that moment, you have to come up with a biscuit that isn't, it's a tough question. It's a democratic biscuit choice. Yeah, you can't say, well, you know, one of those wonderful kind of biscuits. What's up? I'm hearing somebody else through my headpoints. Did you guys hear about it? No. Who was it? Who's listening? She's already had a mysterious experience this morning. She was telling me earlier. She was desperate to get the bus to work and obviously at the moment the tube strike is ongoing. And what happened, Hannah? You can put your microphone on and tell people what happened

because people who listen to it off air, they like a spooky story. Spooky story off the drink, talking. Go on. Okay, so basically, I was running late for work, put a bit of extra effort in today, got drinks later, I thought. We won't be going to that. You look lovely. Thank you.

And I got on the bus. It was the wrong bus. It was going to stop early. I thought, oh, that's upsetting. And then as I came to change, it told me I was going to be waiting in about 15 minutes. So I start trundling along, all of a sudden I turn around. A yellow bus that I've never seen before, looked very old,

no number, just said the London Bridge, which is obviously exactly where I needed to come. I was scheduled to be running about half an hour late, and in the end, it dropped me off right outside the door at 9am, this mysterious yellow bus. He didn't make me pay. He was very polite. God, I just thought, this is...

I don't know what it was, but it... That is weird. That is weird. It is weird. Okay, I've, what, 40 years of living? in London and actually loads of strikes have happened during that time i've never heard of a kind of different ghost bus service arriving to deliver you door to door without charging you like harry potter wow hannah wow this is big it is big and we are getting closer to our spooky time

in october so i just wonder if that's a very early entry did you take any pictures no no okay well probably the camera wouldn't work anyway no no wouldn't that be weird if then when you looked at them. They're all blurry. That's weird. Anyway, people on the Insta are very concerned about how everybody got home because of our transport difficulties.

I didn't cycle in the end because I'd discuss this with you and we'd agree that we were going to take a taxi from New York Towers to Downing Street. And also there is something quite fun about opening a taxi door and going, Downing Street. Although the driver couldn't have looked less interesting.

He couldn't be rather than, really. No, no. I'm just never going to be so cocky that I'd just kind of go, Downing Street, hares of Parliament, House of Lords. It's still just a...

Oh, when we're in the House of Lords. I think we will start to take it for granted after the first decade or so, I think. No, I won't be... No, I won't be in the House of Lords. Oh, I think we both will be... And we'll always travel in our... Ermine.

We'll always get on the boss with our special passes, with our cloaks, and possibly coronets on. Maybe. I'm glad... Paulie Yates, you had a... She had mint-lined pants, didn't she? Ermin lined pants.

Oh, God. It's a small detail about a wonderful... woman. But the getting home thing. So you hopped in another black cab with a colleague from the Sunday Times and I walked up the strand to the Oldwich and hopped on the number 76 bus

which was quite a jolly affair actually. I know that there's been quite a bit of argy-bargy across London because of the strikes but by that time of the evening everyone was being quite nice to each other and a bit kind of hey-ho we're all in this together. Were they drunk? They may have been a little

bit more you than me. On the overground this morning I was waiting for a seat and eventually it got a bit less crowded and seats became available and the woman who had been standing next to me she did look exhausted and the poor woman, as soon as she got a seat

she just felt fast asleep and some people are coming off a night shift and you really do I know there are all sorts of reasons for strike action but the irony is that a union calls out a strike and often affects

other union members more than non-union members so that's just the truth of it and we had a correspondent on yesterday didn't we very clearly making the point that actually hospitality is really really suffering

just like multiple cancellations across London this week and a nightmare for hospitals as well for night shift workers and people coming in late and all of that so is complicated it is complicated and I will never

but having said that when the tube is restored I will not take it for granted for quite some time. But last night was great fun, so thank you to Mum's Net for laying on. Huge, thank you. Hugh Grant was there as well, Jane, which just... I just have to pinch myself again. You say that? I just didn't see him.

Well, I'm not sure that you were really focused by the end of the evening. When I came over to say goodbye to you, you literally went to see tomorrow and flick of a hand. Is that right? Okay. What time was that? I don't know. Because it wasn't a late finish.

No. It really was. I think it was. Anyway, when I woke up this morning, I was in excellent spirits, and I will continue to be so. Absolutely. Learning to drive when older is from Michelle, who describes herself as a late learner.

I'm one of the people you refer to as learning to drive when a bit older. I started when I was 40. Now, I hadn't bothered before, because in Ireland, where I grew up, it was actually really expensive to get insured, and I had other priorities. My sister did, though, my younger sister, and she drove us everywhere, to school and nightclubs,

so it was perfect for me. Then I lived in London for 12 years and didn't really need a car. But when I hit 40, I was living in a small village with a young baby and I decided it was high time. I was terrified, but I reasoned that if half the knuckleheads I saw driving were able to do it, surely I'd be able to do it too. Though I had grown up hearing about a terrible accident my parents had had in the 70s,

and that always played on my mind. Anyway, I didn't leave the industrial estate car park for three weeks during the early part of my lessons, much to the dismay of my teacher. I also learned in the winter at night so that nobody else would see me. I was actually pretty embarrassed. Long story short, I had lessons for six months with the most patient woman I've ever met and I passed. She did tell me I was the most anxious learner she'd ever had. It's been about five years now and honestly it's the best thing I ever did. My mantra when I got in the car was to say, I love to drive. I love to drive. And I really think that helped. It tricked me a bit.

Good luck, says Michelle, to any other late learners. Michelle, thank you for that. And I appreciate it is a little trickier learning later. And I thought of Michelle this morning, when I saw this on Instagram, one of those funny maps that pops up, the headline of the map is driving direction in Europe 1922. And it just tells you who in 1922 was driving on the left and who was driving on the right. But terrifyingly, some countries are coloured in blue because they had mixed driving directions. How does that work? I don't know. But in 1922, in Italy, you could just choose which direction you drove in.

And the same suit to apply in Spain. Now, I just, I really don't you see how there's a matter? It's just bonkers. How on earth did they operate that system? Clearly they don't anymore. But why? Why would you do that? I'm supposed to liven things up.

I don't really understand why we're driving on different sides of the road in any countries anyway. Why did one person start making a car with the steering wheel on the right and then another? Was it kind of competitive car industry people? You said, oh, we're going to make ours with the driving gear on the left. That's a really good question. I don't know what else. Why wouldn't you just make it all the same? Who invented roads?

Well, it is quite strange thing. I mean, I'm tempted to only ever go. on holiday to places where they drive on the same side of the road. So I find it incredibly difficult. I just don't have that brain. Some people can just switch into it and it's just nay bother at all. But I really, really, really have to concentrate,

especially at roundabouts. I mean, you should always concentrate it roundabout kids. Especially. And I just have that kind of blank when I get to them. It's just like, who's right at where is it here? Oh, yeah, no, if I never drive abroad again, I'm fine with that. And I think I've told the story again. but I mean who cares most people

have fallen asleep by now but one of the first times I ever had to drive on the other side of the road I was filming a travel show shoot in the south of France and I just wasn't brave enough to say to the producer because they had gone down to get an early morning shot

that I wasn't needed in you know pretty shot get her out of the way she doesn't need to be she's not in this category so they said you know why don't you just have a bit more relighting so they'd have to get up at 5 in the morning and drive the other higher car down and I just wasn't brave enough to say

I'm really, really nervous about driving on the other side of the road and I don't think I would ever have driven on the other side of the road before so I thought, so I got it in the car, okay, I've got to do this, it's my job, you know, I can do it. The only thing that I could do is just follow the car in front

because when I got to the roundabout I was just too nervous to go my own way so they were down on the beach filming I was off nails and then I just had to hope when I turned round that was following someone who was going back to the beach it took me a long time

sometimes feminine logic I just in the moment Jane I didn't have the courage to go I'm going to turn here because it just you know it was just all a bit too much

and you know and it could it could have been worse I could have ended up in Monte Carlo well but somehow you're here today yeah thank God everyone says I by the way I got on a train this morning

and going back to transport problems I got on a train that was meant to be going to London Bridge but they hadn't changed the signs on inside the train so absolutely my spirit which had been relatively high did plummet because it just said as we left

Hampstead West or somewhere wherever I was getting on it just said next stop St Auburn's City oh I thought well that'd be quite nice place to spend the day just have spent the day snoozing in St Albans yeah it's a lovely town yes I know it is it's a proud Roman town

isn't it St Orban's? Yeah it's lovely St. Auburn, I think they did away with him, didn't they, the Romans? What was St. Alban canonised, beatified for? This is where we need Richard Coles. Yes, I should know. I think, I don't know. Anyway, as it turned out, unrivittingly, they simply got the signs wrong, and it was the right train. But when you're a little bit, perhaps not at your very best, that's the last thing you need, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's West Hamstead as well.

What did I call it? Hampstead West. It's only a time, it's absolutely fine. Dear Finn, Jane, in coming from Anita, I've just come back from Italy and wanted to add a few words about my personal experience of driving there. Well, I was only a passenger and we didn't drive there this time,

although being on the bus to Pasadano and back, cable car and Capri. Stop now. And general chaos on the streets and roads gave me almost a heart attack a few times, so my overall transport experience, there was rather life-changing. But I was a car passenger

where my partner drove the car back in June during our holiday and my daughter's wedding. and it was a nightmare. No rules, especially on the roundabouts, many times properly rose our blood pressure and prompted him to use very rude vocabulary during that time. But the funniest moment was when we got into our car and got driving from the East Midlands Airport after we flew back home. My partner, bless him, was so anxious approaching the roundabout. You see, it's a thing. It took him a while to realise that we were back home and the drivers generally obey the road rules of England. His tense face was priceless though. We visit Italy quite often, he's not a stranger to the Italian way of driving.

But here is the advice for us to look at the subject from another angle. My ex-mother-in-law lives in Italy. She's Polish like me. She comes to Poland with her Italian husband every year for a few months to avoid Rome's heat in the summer and he drives there. One day they went to one of our cities and my sister-in-law had a call from the police

after stopping him driving the Italian way. Isn't that great? Just stop driving the Italian way. It's a nightmare. they asked her to explain to her stepfather that it's not Italy and in Poland he must follow the rules of the road he's simply not allowed to drive the car the Italian way in Poland if he wants to keep his licence

I would love to have had that conversation filmed and Anita goes on to say I know Poland is not on your bucket list but I can honestly say that if you want to experience driving on gorgeous new roads no potholes go there I suspect my English partner is secretly jealous about it it's always such a pleasure when I land there get into a car and drive to my Polish home well we should put Poland

on the bucket list and Anita has got a couple of PSs she is grateful for the recommendation of Ale of Shaffax there are rivers in the sky she took it with her on that Italian holiday finished on the flight back yesterday beautiful I cried reading the last pages and she's such a beautiful beautiful writer isn't she

and the second PS is a kind of about eating hair. I mean, who knew that so much hair had been eaten? I've had a few of them. My ex-husband was a hunter back in Poland. Their hair had to be hung in quite a cool cellar for a couple of weeks to mature. It sounds revolting, but

it works. It gives it flavour. I must say that slowly roasted with other basic spices and sour cream added at the end of roasting, it was my favourite game. I'm not a fan of other game kinds. God, we have had some really rarefied content this week. Anita, thank you for that. And let's stick with

the theme. This is from a man who stars himself, Martin Groucho Horseman, Editor, Cook, Gardner and gentlemen. And somehow he's found the time to email us. We couldn't be more thrilled. My parents were once given a brace of grouse, he tells us in this email, not normal food in our smash and bake bean eating household. My father knew they had to be hung to achieve the correct gaminess, but the right method was to hang them by the tail feathers until the body fell away. Unfortunately, they got it wrong. They put it the wrong way round and hung them by the neck in the garage and waited till the body fell away. After a week, we noticed the garage was full of blue bottle flies. The bodies of the birds were moving with a mass of maggots below the rotting flesh. And the smell was quite gut-wrenching.

Happily, we tucked into a fraybentous pie while the birds were buried in the garden. Very sensible. What a wonderful memory. Thank you so much. I think it's always good to have an emergency fraybentos. Wendy has sent in some details about other smelly food as well. I've been listening to your musings about dreams and pheasants posted by Royal Mail, and I felt I needed to tell you about an experience that happened to me a few years ago when I was living in Guyana.

Unfortunately, the only cheese you could buy in Guyana was processed American cheese. We call that in our household plastic cheese. That's horrible. It's not even cheese, is it? But you can't have a barbecue burger without plastic cheese. But I swear to God, if you just left the wrap plastic on it, it wouldn't taste any different, would it? Anyway, my mother was fully aware of my longing for cheese,

so she packaged me up a shoebox full of Stilton, Brie, Jarlsberg. Is that Yarlsberg? I don't know. I quite often buy it, but I don't know how to say it. Red Leicester. Is that Leicester? And Camembert, unfortunately, rather than sending this package airmail that Maita arrived in a couple of days,

she sent it by sea. Four months later, I had a car through my door to say that there was a parcel waiting for me at the post office. I got to about 400 yards from the post office and I smelled something odd.

As I got nearer, I came over in a hot sweat as I realised it was the smell of very gone-off cheese. Guyana is on the equator, an incredibly hot and humid, so a combination of a four-month sea journey couple with heat and a shoebox of packaging

had led to a parcel that was just a box of sweat smelly goo. I had to put the box straight in the bin, gutted, but even really smelly cheese can go bad. And this was bad. Oh, Wendy. I'm amazed that at some point that wasn't just thrown overboard.

It's a wonderful bit of production that the next email is entitled, as I've got the same one. What? Oh, Chederman. Oh, I love this. This is just by, there is no production. I mean, Hannah does a wonderful job, but

obviously after the incident with the yellow boss, we're really not sure about it. But no, this is pure coincidence that this is next on both our piles. Are you micro-dosing? Have you got on a big yellow bus that only goes to London Bridge and doesn't charge you?

It can happen to the young. Penny says, honestly, we always say, don't we? We never know who's listening, but how wonderful to have cut through in the way we have. I know, we have cut through to the ultimate, ultimate monarch. Yeah, truly.

I can't believe this. Last night, says Penny, and she's emailing us on behalf of H.R.H. Adrian Target of Cheddar. So we just, honestly, we're thrilled to bits by this. Last night, I was, as usual, enjoying your banter through an earphone and quietly nodding off.

When I was jolted back to life and forced to cackle aloud, very loud, when you started talking about the unadventurous Somerset family who seemed to have managed to confine their gene pool to a cave in cheddar.

The cackles were, in fact, enough to wake my partner, who forgave the interruption to his beauty sleep when I told him he was being talked about. He is that man, the very royal pretender to whom you referred. Way back in 97, when the discovery was made, he was courted by the media, and as you've gathered, his bony ancestor still appears regularly on the socials, and he does get a modest thrill every time somebody mentions cheddar man. He wanted me to pass on, however, a couple of butts. we'll read them out but don't think too hard about these his family don't actually come from cheddar and some quite disappointing science suggests there's a strong chance that much of britain

could also be connected in some way to his cheesy 10,000-year-old forebear well yeah but the point I mean he just looks a bit like his some of his facial um some of the I can't want I can't finish this. Characteristics. That's it. That's the word. Oh, not entirely dissimilar. Anyway, she says,

he also said that crowndom has been mooted several times, and he wonders if you might now, after last night, have some political influence that could further his progress to absolute monarchy. Well, I'm sure that we do, and I think we'll be regular visitors now. I can't believe that's the last time we'll be there. and yeah i didn't get the chance to raise the issue of why adrian is not the king of all britain but next time i absolutely will i mean can i just ask a question which we might not be able to answer no i doubt i will well if many people might be connected why has only one line been

identified well i think it was that they found the remains in cheddar yeah and they also found Adrian, as we now know he is, in the same vicinity. But Adrian's alive. Adrian's certainly alive. Yeah. Well, he's, yes. But why only make the connection to him

if in fact there are lots of people who might be able to trace their lineage back? I hate to put this on to Penny. He's probably got lots to do, but we need to email. We do. I can feel a special Friday guest coming on. I mean, yeah, because this guy... It's fascinating.

He must, Adrian must sit there fuming when there's a so-called royal wedding in this country. Yeah, but also... At what point, you know, back in the annals of history, did his family get knocked out the way? You know, was it by a dastardly Dane and was it by the Welsh?

Who pushed him out the way? An angle or a jute or any of those other people who came over. All of which is fascinating, but also it should just make the flag loons... Just think a little, just think a little bit about... Because indigenous, what does it mean? I mean, just think about that. Well, I think for, you know, if we're going to go down that road, for every flag that you see raised on a lamppost or hung over a flyover, we should just adorn it with some smelly cheese.

Just see how that goes. I wonder if, I wonder if Adrian even likes cheese. He might be lactose intolerant. That would be very ironic. Well, not much fun being lactose and torrent. Yes, we'll settle for ironic. Anyway, Penny, how wonderful, because you're basically the queen. so thank you for bothering to contact us

and we might be back in touch if that's all right now I don't really understand this and I apologise if we're taking the podcast down market dear Jane Fee, Young Eve and Rosie and we're going to add in for this week only I can see yellow buses Hannah I'm sorry I appear to be lowering the tone of off air but further to my email last week

regarding fees usage of Brucey bonus I felt compelled to write in following the correspondence regarding tampon embarrassment You interviewed Sarah Cox and Claire regarding their new podcast, and on the pod, Claire disclosed that her son used to refer to tampons very loudly in the supermarket as bumsticks. Apparently, he would shout down the aisles of Tesco, Mum, do you need more bumsticks? Upon the Google lookup, and I haven't done this because I'd like to keep my search history clean. I don't want chat GPT coming after me with nasties. Upon the Google lookup, I can confirm this as a safe zone.

It's a medical condition. I don't understand that, Jane. What does that mean? I promise no further filthy correspondence. No, you don't, Sophie. Sorry, I don't get that. Actually, I'm not sure having read that out that we should know. But I do love it when kids don't share the embarrassment

that older generations have about things like that because it's just such a healthy sign. You know, when I used to take my kids shopping and they'd sit in the little trolleys and stuff like that. And, you know, back in the day, I ovulated for a very long time. time. Oh, you know.

Until they were grown up. You're a record breaker. You know, but you'd always be chucking in your tampons and ulets and sanitary pads and all kinds of things. And, of course, they just ask what they are and then they want to have a look at them. And they find them fascinating, especially applicator tampons. I mean, they can keep your kids occupied in the supermarket queue for a very long time. I mean, that's a good tip.

You should have given that tip at the start of the summer holidays, not now. Okay. I offer it up to Mumsnet. No, but it's lovely, isn't it? And of course, they shouldn't be embarrassed about it, and it all helps that the next generation isn't as embarrassed about it as we've been made to be. So I think, you know, whatever you want to shout down

the Isle of Tesco, it can only be a good thing? I've gotten embarrassing. I never understood what he did with an applicator, so I never bought them because I didn't understand what it was for. Is that like an extra bit? Well, it is, gosh, you really want me to say. I really didn't know. So I've never used them.

Did you never have to explain it to your girls? No, I just told them to get the other ones. Oh, okay. I said, I'm sorry, I don't understand what those ones are, so... So an applicator tampon, so that's just got... So that's where the tampon's encased in a piece of cardboard. Why? Does it need to be encased? Can we wait until we get to the end?

Okay, okay, yeah. And then there's a smaller cylindrical piece of cardboard, which pushes the tampon up. So if you're struggling to insert a tampon, and I think when you first start using them, everybody is because it's quite weird you just push the bottom part of the applicator and it sends the tampon up much higher

so you know when you see rockets launching it's about to say it's exactly that it's a massive massive and let's put this to Elon Musk and to Jeff Bezos your enormous great big penis-shaped rockets they're not they're great big tampons

you're sending them out into the planet the applicator is releasing them Right. So the applicator gives you a good head start. It does. Yeah. It definitely sends it further. God, I've got to 61 without ever really. I find that remarkable. Were you never applicator curious? Well, I was. I've been up until now. I've been incredibly curious. Did you not have another friend you could ask, Jane?

Until I did the podcast, I don't know. I haven't. Gosh, that's so weird. Anyway, it just reminds me that we have got an astronaut coming on, haven't we, Hannah? which I'm thrilled about. Well, let's not ask that. No, no, we won't ask of that. But I'm delighted to say that. I think in a couple of weeks,

we are talking to the third woman of colour to go into space. But you're right, we won't know that. At no point will applicator tampons come into that conversation. No. But I'm delighted that she's coming on. Well, I don't like, just a final word on the up-cated tampons. So in all of my experience, they were always made of cardboard. They were all very, you know, recyclable materials.

And I think quite a lot of them are plastic now. or a kind of or they might be that plastic that claims to be biodegradable but actually what that usually means is ultimately it will biodegrade but it will take a century before it does

and I don't really see the need for that cardboard was fine it was absolutely fine because now also they're all individually wrapped you know so you've got three pieces of packaging and that's justifiable because of hygiene is it well I think it's I don't think

I mean you know If you were hygienic about your tampon use anyway, you wouldn't need to be hygienic about how they were stored. And, you know, people just, you just took one out of the box when you needed one. Exactly. So I don't know whether there was ever any evidence that they all needed to be individually wrapped. But everything's gone the same way, hasn't it? I mean, if you just buy any kind of cosmetic, it's got four layers of packaging on it now.

And that's just stupid because when back in the day we just nick them from Woolies. They didn't need any packaging at all. That didn't happen in suburban Liverpool. It may have gone on down south. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore? FIS is 100% online, so you can make the switch in minutes.

Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at Fizz.C. Rick Astley is our guest. Now, Rick, you are looking good. Thank you, love. But you have just confided in us that maybe you're not feeling as sharp as you might like.

Is that okay to say? Well, I shouldn't be, because it was a friend's birthday. We had a couple of bottles of wine. We had a nice dinner as well, so that soaked it up probably. Good tip, that. But, you know, when you're doing promo and stuff and you're out there and running around, you kind of shouldn't really be going on a bit of a night out

the night before you do it, but I was relatively sensible. I got in bed at a reasonable hour and drank loads of water so I feel okay really and I had a bacon butty before as well and that's always a stabiliser James a wee bit hung over today as well as well really

that's why I was sympathetic but when I got in last night I had two bowls a very sweet French breakfast cereal and then some Tony's choccoloni and I'm not sure that was the best cause of actually probably not a good idea

anyway I'm not looking as good as you but I feel I'll get through the day I want to ask a semi-serious question I hope you don't mind your music is associated with a good time. I think that's fair to say, isn't it? And you're celebrated for that.

But I think people, when they learn more about your life, will have thought, wow, how has this bloke produced this bouncy sound? Yeah, it's an interesting way to put it, a bouncy sound, I would agree with you. I think, to be honest, I think most people, there's an element of performance, there's an element of pretend in being a pop star in the 80s, there just is. And I think it was probably a bit less open. You know, we didn't have social media,

we didn't have the internet. So you didn't see somebody falling out of a cab quite so much unless it was a paparazzi thing or what have you. Whereas now, the digital person that's travelling with them is like, this is gold, do you know what I mean? And any worries and troubles that people had were sort of kept under wraps, really. And I think if you refer into, for instance,

because I did an autobiography last year and I kind of put it all out in that really, why I ended up getting on a stage and I think that's because I was running away from something. My mum and dad divorced when I was very young. I'm youngest to four kids. They would have had another son, but he passed away before I was born,

lost him to meningitis. And I think I've kind of said that it felt like there was a ghost in our house because he was never spoken about. There was never a photograph of him. I saw one photograph in my life once and it was just, I'm not putting it down to that but I'm saying that my parents were kind of broken after that

and I think that's what really led to them getting divorced as well perhaps and the reason I'm quite okay to talk about it is I've talking to my brothers and my sister about are you okay with this, that I do this biography and stuff and I just wanted to put it out there because I think that's what I was doing I was running away with the circus to become, you know, for one of a better word,

pop star, but to just have a different life and, you know, my dad had a lot of troubles and I think understandably, you know, and I wanted to get away from that really and just go and find the light rather than the opposite.

And do you think now that you're older all of that does come out in your creativity? Interesting. I think I've drawn on it, definitely. I made a record when I turned 50, almost 10 years ago now, and the opening line says,

the first song are about my dad having a bit of a breakdown in the car and crying and he's not the crying type my dad sorry he wasn't the crying type really and as a young kid that was kind of terrifying because you're like this guy's made of granite or what's going on and I think I put that in the song and I didn't even try to that's the weird thing I don't I don't even I don't know what I consider myself but I'd write songs I've written quite a lot of them but I don't really consider myself a songwriter I don't consider myself a musician I'm a bloke who sung songs and not even, like, got away with it or this, that and the other. I think I'm talented, but I also think I've had a lot of look and I've been in the right place at the right time.

And I think sometimes within my way of writing a song, it's just stumbling around in the dark until something happens. So very often I sing something to myself while I strumming the guitar or sat at the piano. And I think, what the hell is that? And the opening lines to that song are about my dad crying in a car. I'm like, where did that come from? So I don't know whether that came from a conversation I might have had the night before with my wife or one of my brothers or my sister

or whether it's just all that stuff is bubbling somewhere for everybody, but I get to put it into lyrics and stuff. And does it help? Do you mean in terms of a therapeutic way? I think the book was quite therapeutic. I think it's quite nice to do that. It's also a bit weird to kind of tell secrets and stories. in this certain years so that's why as I say

I squared that with my brothers and my sister first and because my mum and dad are both dead and passed away a few years back I felt I could actually say whatever I wanted to about the way I was brought up there's a thing in the book really which is like probably the monster part of it in the beginning really to tell the story of that

my dad had lost it one morning and we actually lived my dad had a tiny garden centre he always had a little business of some kind and he was ahead of the curve and he started a little garden centre like a little nurse style one and we lived in a porter cabin on that when i was like 13 14 15 16 going to school which was a nightmare living in a porter cabin and going to a comprehensive school is a nightmare but

anyway um and anyway he'd lost it one morning and he was never physical with us he was never he was very physical he would smash things tear things up he would go mad he would go completely bonkers mad but not physically towards us and he did it twice to me once i deserved it So we'll, you know, put that down to that's just parenting and being a brat as a kid probably. And then this time I didn't. I was probably 17, 18. And he just lost it.

He sort of put me on the ground and was about to probably steam into me a little bit, I think. And like I say, he never did this. So this was so weird. And the next eldest brother, Mike, came out of the porter cabin with a bread knife in his hand, put it against his throat and said, if you move, I will drop you where you stand.

And so, on the one hand, yeah, that's the guy who sang together forever. Yeah, what is it? But I think, I don't think, for instance, that isolated moment is what made me want to sing and be on a stage. No, no, no, no. But I think a lot of things in my life and a lot of, I would say a bit of darkness and a bit, my dad had a lot of darkness around him. And I just kind of think, I just, I don't want this, and I want to be in charge of my own life. And one way of doing that is, to leave, to go and be somewhere else physically.

And so obviously getting a record deal and coming to London was like, that's a great start. How much did your dad enjoy your success? I think he was very proud of me. I know he was. He had a T-shirt that said, I'm Rick Astley's dad. So he was proud of me. That's a clue there.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, yeah, I know he was proud of that. The weird thing is he hated pop music of any description. He loved Frank Sinatra. He actually liked a bit of Beatles. He would never admit it, but he did used to go around singing My Sweet Lord and things like that. So he did like the Beatles a bit. And he hated accountants because he always had a little business.

All his brothers had little businesses as well, and my aunties. They all had one, actually. It was weird. And so he just hated having to see the accountant, you know, and the Vatman and this, that and the other. And the said brother, Mike, is a chartered accountant and like a financial director. And I'm an ex-pop star. You both had your revenge. So we both fulfilled those things, yeah. And yeah, but I also think, if I'm brutally honest,

I don't think anybody who gets on a stage is 100% getting on the stage because of what they're about to perform, whether it's a play, be in a movie or whatever, or sing or whatever. I think there's so many things that drive people for the attention, for the love, for the self, kind of like, I'm worth something, because these people say I'm worth something. That comes from something, and it's not just,

And I love music, by the way. I mean, I am literally, I've got a studio at home, and I am in there every day. If I'm at home, I'll be in there at some point. And if I'm not, it feels a bit weird. So what were those years like when you didn't have that audience and you weren't out on stage, and you were in your shed a lot?

Yeah. And you weren't producing lots of music. I still always had a music room or a little studio of some kind, and I would potter about with things. And I kind of, when I sort of quit, which would have been, I don't know, know, mid-90s, I guess, or whatever, early mid-90s. Our daughter was probably about two by then. And I just felt, I think even her being born just made me think,

there's just more to life than this nonsense, do you know what I mean? But also, I was super, super lucky. And I know this sounds, but I love saying this in interviews. I love saying this. I made some goddamn money. And once you've made some money, you can decide to do things in a very, very different way than not having the money. Do you know what I mean?

Because it's not a risk. Do you think there's a squeamishness that people aren't, as you say, they're not willing to say that, are they? I think it's like, oh, it wasn't about the money. I'm like, that's because you've got some. It's like, don't ever say, if you've got nothing, and you make an artistic decision, then yes, it can be about that. It's just about the art and it's about what you want to do.

But if you've got enough money in the bank never to worry about paying a bill again and you've paid your mortgage off, then yeah, you can make some pretty creative decisions with that behind you. and so I get a bit well he might have said noticed in the tone of my voice I get the ass sometimes when people aren't honest enough

with themselves to go well the reason you can make those decisions is because you made a few bob and so you're not in that position that most people are of like well I've got to do this or I've got to do this this way so I can't know where we were now

we were in your shed in my shed so yeah our daughter was born and I think something changed in me as every dad or mum I'm sure, you know. But I think it's sort of changed my thought process about what I've been doing for this last few years

before she was born and thinking, do I even really want to be famous? I've had a go at it and I'm not very comfortable with it. I don't particularly love it. It's not, it's fantastic for certain things and it's great for your ego. And I love to walk out onto a stage and people go, great.

That is an amazing feeling. Like, you know, you walk out there, people have bought a ticket, they actually want to be here. It's not even a festival. Festivals I love because they terrify you because you think half of them are going to walk away when they go, oh, it's him. But people have bought a ticket specifically to see you.

You've kind of, as long as you're doing the best that you can do that night, you've won because that's what you're there for. Yeah. But yeah, I kind of packed it in. And it was kind of my decision. I'm not fooling myself. I wasn't at peak of my powers, blah, blah. But I was probably still capable of squeezing

a record or two out and more and I just thought I just don't think I want to do it and I don't think people are desperate for me to do it um so we just asked the label would they be cool if they just tore the contract up and didn't have some weird you know like an override weird thing you know and they just said yeah we'll do that and so they did and um I had lived a very comfortable cushy comfortable life in Richmond upon Thames and um yeah I was but I also did a lot of therapy in my late 20s and that was partly about things in my life life and things but it was also about my childhood and also about my marriage as well i think it was like we weren't actually married then funny enough we've been together since 1939 sorry 1980s sorry i was doing the math

in what i was doing it looks amazing yeah yeah sleeps in a fridge don't do that our own kids um no we've been together since 1989 sorry i was doing maths in my head and looking at numbers of my head and it came that's 39 um so but we didn't get married till about 13 years ago so um but yeah a lot of the therapy was about not being that dude i guess um and how are you going to deal with that and because obviously even though you've sort of said i quit i don't have a record deal no one's asking for another record i'm done that's it i never have to promote a record again um you don't instantly become uh unrecognizable it doesn't take that long but it takes It takes a while.

Well, your hair, it's your hair, right? It's the hair, exactly. I mean, you're so blessed. Send that into the restaurant first. Get a good seat in the... So when you were at the school gate and things like that, there was no way you weren't Rick Astley. You've always been, Rick Astley.

Well, that's very, very true, but we all... There were quite a few more famous moms and dads than me. Yeah, okay. So I just, I blended into the grass, to be honest. I mean, it was just, it was like, forget it. And that wasn't a conscious thing, like, oh, let's send our daughter to Stella Street School. It was just we loved Richmond and some friends of ours.

Their kids went to this local school there. You know, it's a private school. It's gorgeous. And I think that was one of the things that I didn't struggle with that. You know, people say, oh, I struggle sending my kids to private school because I really thought they should be. I was like, nope, no thanks. I went to the local, whatever it was.

And, you know, it was fine. But I left school when I was, I left school the day I was legally allowed to. Right. And I kind of thought it would be good that at least she has the option to go to what hopefully is a school that can have a bit more time and a bit more what have you. And we'll see how that goes, you know. Just on the hair, you've achieved a magnificent lift there.

What kind of a product is it? Is it a foam? Is it a moose? No, the weird thing is, the weird thing is, there is a little bit of something in my hair, but it's not much. But the weird thing is, and I may do a YouTube video of this just to prove it, actually. but then somebody will say it's AI or CGI or whatever I can go swimming sit down, pick my book up on holiday

and 10 minutes later it's like that it's back up yeah it's remarkable it's bizarre is what it is and you do need to do that video but it's had it's had like however many when our daughter was born she had a quiff the day she was born she came out

with a quiff strong DNA yeah so I'm just grateful. Definitely do the video. I may have to. That is an internet breaker. I may have to. Well, I just want us to get through the interview without mentioning that song.

And I think we more or less have. I think we have. What song? That, exactly. Who comes to your gigs now? What does the audience look like? Obviously, it's kind of of an age that was there

when that song happened. 1987. There are some younger people occasionally. And when I say younger, that could be. like kids, could be 10-year-olds with their moms and dads or whoever. Not many, but some. And then occasionally they'll wander into people being in the 20s and 30s. And you think, again, it's a small percentage.

But I do, because I look at them and I'm going like, no, they're not with the older people. They just came here, you know. And I'm like, hmm, that's interesting. But I go to gigs and I look at the audience sometimes and think, wow, I was not expecting that. but do you think that's the festival influence as well because yeah i think and you did a cover didn't you of the smiths yeah yeah so you would have met a whole new group there well yeah for sure but that i did that with blossoms and obviously they

you know they are more my daughter's age really rather than my age but we have a bit of a i think because we love those songs so much the age thing didn't really come into it and i'm probably fooling myself here i'm sure they're well aware of the fact they're on stage with Uncle Rick when we did that. But it's like I just think that love of those songs, it just broke the boundaries for us for sure. And when we did a couple of gigs actually, but then we did

the Glastonbury one, which was really big. And I think looking at that audience, again, showed you the power of what a really good song will do. It's got nothing to do whether you were born. Even whether you kind of like have ever seen the original artist do it because there's no way some of that audience has. They might have seen Johnny Ma and I hope they have.

They might have seen Morrissey and I hope they have. But they've never seen The Smiths. And I kind of think, well, that's the power of that. That is pretty epic. So is there a contemporary artist that you would also, maybe you have already covered? Oh yeah, I'm non-stop, darling. I don't have that many hit songs, so I need a few covers when I play. Well, give us the most recent.

Well, I've done a couple of Harry-style songs, simply because they're fantastic. It's not just because he's a big, big artists so everyone knows them, which they do, but it's also because the songs are really great, really great. I think he's like, he's one of the redeeming features of pop

music, I think, at the minute, because he looks amazing, he's got a great style sense and all of that, he's always pushing that. But the tunes are great. And as a performer, you know, he sort of nails it, he's got everything happening. So when you do your gigs, do you end with

you know what? I do. Of course I do. Yeah. So you keep them waiting right till the end. Well, also because some of them will leave if I do it like, you know, 10th song, eight songs. Oh, no, they won't. Or they might, you'd be surprised. So, we sometimes play a bit of, it's like Voldemort

I'm going to mention it, we sometimes play a bit of never going to give you up, but we don't I'm not daft, do you know what I mean? We have to keep it till the end. Do you do it in a disguise kind of jazz bongo version first? No, we'll just, I used to get Robby plays keys to sort of just do a little flurry and then I'll get the crowd to

sing it with me kind of thing. And then actually say to people like, you know, you can get your train home now, do you know what I mean? Because they're off an age. I mean, they're about my age. Well, this is it. They are worried about what time they're going to get back. Yeah, well, maybe, maybe. Yeah. Rick, it's been lovely. Really, really lovely. Thank you. Really enjoyed it. Yes, yep. And what a pleasure to interview somebody who's not taking themselves as seriously as they could do. It's all an act. Is it an act? Do you walk outside and go, oh, bow down before me? No, I think, I think, I actually genuinely believe

that I did so much pretending in my 20s sometimes pretending to be enjoying it as well like being on TV somewhere in Europe going what the hell am I doing what is this? I once went on a show, right, sorry we're taking it the time once went on a show and well two shows actually in Germany

funnily enough, Germany was mad for TV and the biggest moment in the show was watching a, I'm going to call him a mouse but I think he might have been a something else a little mouse and it was an overhead camera and if he went out the right door they won a prize

he was in a maze right and it stopped for everything this is this was the highlight of the show it's not good for your ego that I'll tell you do you mean and the other one was I was doing like the sound check in the afternoon or whatever

for the TV show that night and a guy walks past with a camel across the studio floor and I'm like this is ridiculous what the hell why am I doing this what am I doing it right? Did you get the home? No, very good dear, very good

And then I looked over and Rod Stewart's about to start warming up to do his thing. I said, fine, that's fine. If it's okay with Rod, bring on the camel. I'm here. That was Rick Astley and he goes on tour all over the UK in April of next year.

Starts in Glasgow. Ends in London. What could be more lovely. Indulge yourself and get along there. His paperback of his autobiography which is called Never is out on well, it depends whether this has been written by an American person

or somebody from R Shores. I'm not going to say an Indigenous person. It's either the 9th of October or it's the 10th of September. It's 0910, 25. Okay. It could be either, couldn't it? Thank you.

Well, you've covered all bases and people will be able to find it. What's the matter, Hannah? It's October. It's October. Is it? Oh, okay, but that would be handy. If we were actually interviewing him

on the day that a book came out, it'd be lovely. It'd be a first floor. it's been a day of confusion and we've sort of cleared that up right thank you very much indeed for listening I knew this morning I thought oh I knew my elder daughter had a big event tonight

so I texted her and said I hope it goes well tonight best of luck with it and she took two minutes past and she just wrote back it's tomorrow Jane oh and I thought oh okay

that's not good but at least I remembered just final point actually and it's relevant to our podcast isn't it somebody asked if there were any free things that we could have stolen last night. Somebody on the Instagram one of our more low-level listeners but you're right to ask

and they did have free sanitary products in the loo. Well there wouldn't have been no... Well, I mean if I got an applicator one I wouldn't have known where to start. But I took one just in case. Are they not embossed, are they? No.

What's the point of... You can't just take one and say, you'll never guess where I got this. Yes, you can. I can quite easily do that. I once went to the United Nations. And a similar thing, actually, everybody else was very nonchalant about it. And I was like, is the United Nations? Look at the flags.

Look at the symbol of the world. It's the UN. And I framed the envelope that our expenses came in. Because I was just so chuffed. It says United Nations on it. And it says, I think we've got $113. And it just says that on the front. And I framed that. So I can frame a sanitary towel.

No, okay. Well, I look forward. Yeah. well do let us know exactly how you do it right um that's craft corner over with for another week thanks for putting up with this tosh uh back tomorrow end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can

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