Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The lost King Charles Spaniel hairdo decade (with Adam Buxton)

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

In this episode, Jane and Fi take a trip down memory lane, dredging up memories of questionable hairdos and cat-suits. They also chat wine charms, the dangers of pepper, and frozen baguettes. Plus, broadcaster and comedian Adam Buxton discusses his latest memoir, 'I Love You, Byeee' — an account of the highs and lows of working with Joe Cornish and revolutionising the worlds of DIY TV and podcasting. If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/ And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is: Jane and Fi Times Radio, News UK 1 London Bridge Street London SE1 9GF If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] The next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession. Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Podcast Producer: Eve Salusbury Executive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So that wherever you're sitting, whatever position you're in, however long it's taking, you feel that David Soul is very much with you. David Soul is boring into you. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by Thomas Fudge's Biscuits. We've got a bit of a reputation, haven't we, Jane? Our desk here at Times Towers is pretty famous for having the most delicious sweet treats in the office. Yep, guilty as charged. But we're not into any old treats. No sir, only the most elevated biscuit makes the grade.

Because we're so classy. May we introduce you to Thomas Fudgers, born from the expert British craftsmanship of inventive Dorset bakers in 1916. Thomas Fudgers' Florentines are an indulgent blend of Moorish caramel, exquisite almonds and luscious fruits draped in silky smooth Belgian chocolate. Oh, you've said a few key words there, Fee. Exquisite, Moorish.

Exactly the way my colleagues would describe me, I'm sure. Did you say sophisticated? I didn't, but I can. Just like the biscuits, you're very sophisticated, darling. And like you, Thomas Fudgers believes that indulgence is an art form and it should be done properly or not at all, Jane. I concur. Thomas Fudges, hats off to remarkable biscuits. You've definitely dressed for attending a function this afternoon. We're going to the

Chelsea Flower Show. You'll be able to hear more details about it in a bit of a special coming your way later. But I just thought nobody will see me from the waist down. And because we're sitting around a table, aren't we, having a chat? But when we get there, we're not doing that now, we're working. I just didn't want to be cold, but I've been obsessing. I fell asleep last night thinking about it, woke up this morning still thinking about it, how to get back from Chelsea to East London.

And this happens, it just happens, doesn't it? I mean, there a, for decades, one of the joys of living in a big city with an underground system is that you don't really have to think about transport if you're traveling around the city. Because you know even if it's changing tube trains four times you'll just be able to get places. It's one of our luxuries but I think there just becomes a tipping point in your life where you just obsess about how to get places. It's one of our luxuries but I think that just becomes a tipping point in your life where you just obsess about how to get places and how to leave. I didn't know what you mean.

Yeah, it's weird. It would be alright. It's Chelsea to Hackney. I mean it's not the Himalayas. It's fine. I'll read the book. Chelsea to Hackney. It's not the Himalayas. It's one of those epic journeys not. Now we're going to run through some thank yous. Oh, we're so overdue with parish notices and thank yous actually. Rachie, down there in Australia, has sent us some wine charms, sea glass wine charms.

I have to say the whole concept is new to me, but they're rather beautiful, aren't they? So can you explain what the concept is? Well, you dangle it. Wine glasses, I'm sure you know this, have you ever drunk wine? Neither of us are connoisseurs of wine. We like the old bevy. Wine glasses should be held at the stem. This enhances the wine experience and keeps your wine charm in place as you reach the bottom of your glass. You will see the glass and the charm are not fixed.

If they slip off, pop them back on. Do not put in the dishwasher. Do not put in the dishwasher. So you dangle them. So you put them around the bottom of the stem of the wine glass. Yes. And how does that stop you from gripping the actual bulb of the glass? Well, it doesn't. But it encourages you to hold them in the right place on the stem.

Okay. I'm really sorry, Rach, because they're such beautiful things, but I'm sorry I'm being thick. I just don't understand them. We will look it up and try them out, actually. And I love your PS, because you tried to look for some themed ones for us and we're very very grateful indeed. Yeah, because we've got cats. We've got cats, we've got dogs, we've got a lady in a swimming costume and we've got postcards. PS, I look for an oboe charm. But what came up with sterling silver? Nope, I don't blame you Rachel, I wouldn't have splashed out of that either. I mean, come on.

And a sticker saying I'm glad Trump won. that would have tipped us over the edge. And thank you though for all of the time and effort that you've put into sending those and as soon as I work out how to use them I'm obviously going to use them. Yeah I've got some friends coming this weekend so I'm sure I'll definitely take mine home and give them an outing. Now you've got the postcard, now on to postcard corner. Postcard corner. Postcard corner. Well we just missed this one and it is just one of the funny ones isn't it? One more payment and it's ours. It's a picture of a very very ramshackle falling down place. Lots of

people have dipped into postcard collections and of course we all have those don't we? The cards that we think oh no I can't possibly send that. And so they just, they stay in your box, kind of yellowing a little bit. This is from Sue in Leamington Spa, who's just dipped into her small Appalachian postcard collection for you, circa 1990s. It just seemed appropriate at this time,

especially as I've just finished the audiobook, Hillbilly Elegy, read by the author, J.D. Vance. It's one word for him. So thank you for that one Sue. And this is rather beautiful because of the legend on the front of it. It comes in from Sophie who has listened through the 14 years that she has lived in Houston. How long have we actually done? We haven't done the podcast that long. It can't be that long but maybe she heard other bits of our work.

Our back catalogue. Yeah, our considerable back catalogue. But we were interviewed, weren't we, yesterday, about the length of time we've been in broadcasting combined. I realised to my absolute horror I've been chatting shit into a microphone for nearly 40 years. Bloody hell! So did we work out we were 71 years between us? It's just... It's enough. It's a thought. Sophie, thank you for the card because it says on the front, we're so lucky that flowers don't hold themselves back because other flowers are already blooming. Oh, well that is a lovely sentiment. It's a lovely sentiment. And this one is from Grace.

I have been loving hearing about the postcard wall so finally adding to it, hello from the High Peak near Manchester. I'm very lucky to have this walk around, to have done this walk around the Longdon Dale Trail. Must confess I've never heard of it. Pictured here on an old-school postcard. It's near us. I've been listening to you both since Dolly and Pandora recommended you on their podcast, The High Low, which I know is much missed by many. So you've kept me company from my 20s into my 30s. Wow. Well, we're very grateful to you, Grace, and thank you for that card. That walk does look absolutely amazing. Very under- underrated part of the world that that's the Longdon Dale Trail if you're interested. Lovely. Can I just say huge

thank you this is from way back when so my apologies to you Martina who works at womankind because you sent this a long while back and Jane and I have got desks where the whole things pile up like stuff for the show, books for the show, we've got some bunting that we can't attribute at the moment, all of your wonderful gifts and stuff and my apologies because I put your book in the pile of books for the show, not the podcast pile, but it's Everyday Feminism, the anthology and it is written for womankind worldwide which is a fantastic international women's rights organization and funder. I think it does really clever things like the micro loans and stuff

like that so it just looks out for how to help women in ways that will actually help women. So thank you very much indeed for that Martina it's a great book. And Caroline thank you for your card greetings from Northumberland she's been up to see the puffins she went to see them on the Farne Islands 300 miles plus driving up the M1 anxiously checking the weather forecast all week and telling everyone I was going to see the puffins and I did I saw them says Caroline so she's 32 32 that now that's a I think that's a great age. It's enjoyable, 32. No? Oh. Well, no. Caroline, you're having a good 32nd, strictly speaking of course, 33rd year of life, because after you've had

your birthday, you knock on to the next one. You certainly do. What has been your favourite year? Everybody's got one. God, favourite year, good question. I won't, do you know what I'm going to say, 1987. How old were you? 23. Okay and why was it great? Because that was the year I actually started in radio but was more than that. I just found something that I could do and I think your 20s, particularly your early 20s, post-education, you're racketing around and you can be pretty hard on yourself and life can seem a little bit a little bit cool at times because you know if you were like us relatively biddable good girls following the track expect yeah following the track expected of us you know do your exams go to university leave and then there's that then what then what now and if you find

something that you really enjoy doing it's a great it can be a great part of your life and I had no responsibilities to anybody else I could just focus on having a nice time which I did so that way I would honestly say that so what about you you? I know there's lots of stuff you're not prepared to divulge about your rubber cat suit wearing decades. No, not really actually Jane, not really. I'd say 27 and for all of those reasons but also just that lovely feeling that you had left your early 20s behind because they are quite a confusing couple of years. Yeah, it can be really tough. Because like you, I'd got a job in an industry I wanted to be in, I just couldn't believe

that I'd managed to do that and I really, really enjoyed work. Because I hadn't been fantastic at school by the end of it and not great at university and then when I found myself in a radio station I just loved it I just couldn't I couldn't honestly the alarm couldn't go off early enough I just absolutely loved everything about it the music the news the people you know it was just insane and I had a haircut that worked for the first time in my life describe it that worked it well it was a very short concert gameen game crop. Parisian. Thank you.

Well I mean that would be a kind word putting it, but all of my previous hairstyles attested by the Family Photo album were just ridiculous. For a whole decade I looked like a King Charles Spaniel. I don't say that in a self-deprecating way. It's factually correct. Did you enter Croft? Big things down the side. Big bangs. Then curly at the bottom. No, it's just horrible. So yeah, 27 was a great year. Okay, well now that's, it is extraordinary how, I've never

understood why certain memories lodge in your mind and just stay there when there's so much other stuff that you just forget, but I can so clearly remember a beautiful day around this time of year so early summer driving through the Worcestershire countryside in a radio station branded white Vauxhall Astra with my sole mission for the day driving right into the heart of the countryside to collect some cuddly branded station toys made by a couple of pensioners for hardly any money and driving them back to the radio station whilst listening to soft rock on the radio station I currently work for. Well, what kind of soft rock? Because we need that to accompany our journey.

Oh, okay, well it would be, so a regular favourite would be anything by Foreigner. Okay. Which I can't bear now, but at the time on a sunny day with your elbow sticking out the window of a branded Vauxhall Astra. Singing I'll be waiting for a girl like you. I wasn't the best driver but I got better thank goodness. Passed my test first time, shouldn't have done. Well that's a lovely memory of wafting cow parsley in the verges. I'll tell you what,

I went to see the Face photography exhibition which was on at the National Portrait Gallery celebration of the magazine and some of the photographers who were published in the magazine. It was one of those fantastic memory jogging exhibitions that when you get to a certain age are just wonderful with the odd pinprick of mmm, oh yes, that's a memory we're just going to pass over. And The Face really does that because it's all of the great artists and actually with their definitive pictures so you know that one of Annie Lennox where she's flexing her bicep like that. I do remember that and it was the Kate Moss cover wasn't it?

It was. Which was very very young and the guy Nick Kamen. Yes, yeah, there were quite a few. Moscover wasn't it? It was. Very very young and the guy Nick Caiman. Yes yeah quite a few and do you remember Felix the young model Felix something rather who wore a kind of a cocky jaunty hat and was much fated for being a kind of beautiful young London boy around the late 1980s. I do now I do I do remember. Yeah yeah yeah so stuff like that It was really evocative. What's he doing now? No idea. And I mean I suppose it would ruin it, wouldn't it, if

you had a picture of the... It could be in the shadow cabinet for all I know. The grown-up person. It's funny because I wonder what young people today would make of the face. They brought it back and then it went away again, didn't they? I absolutely loved it. It was another world. It wasn't the world I inhabited. I was never anywhere near fashionable enough, but I bought every single issue. Well, it was super cool. It was so, so cool. Beautifully put together. But as you say, with some images now that would probably tweak your knobs a bit. Yes, although one of the nice explainer cards in the exhibition did say, because there were quite a few

pictures grouped together of the male fashion shoots, and it did say that it was really the first magazine that ever let men wear anything other than the kind of gratin catalog look or the Saturday Sunday supplement men's fashion which would have been quite conservative, but these glorious pictures of men wearing kilts and extraordinary facial hair and all kinds of stuff going on. Barely wearing kilts. Yeah, but it made you think, okay, it's liberating. Obviously we want to own our own liberation

in the 90s as women, constantly know, constantly to be discussed, but it was liberating for so many different communities. Ask me if I had a letter printed in the face. Did you have a letter printed in the face? Yes I did. What was it about? Actually I can't remember but I'm not going to remember. I was actually mocking Aureo Speedwagon.

Oh now come on because you've just said you've had a lovely soft rock moment. But darling, isn't life full of contradictions? Were you pretending to be cooler than you were? Almost certainly, because I was 17 and WH Smiths in Southport, when I saw the edition of the face in which my letter was printed. And of course I wanted to run around the shop telling everybody, I wrote that! Because I did it sort of anonymously with some funny name. But of course nobody in the WH Smiths Southport branch would have been remotely interested.

The final brilliant thing about the exhibition... Is it still going on? No, it finished at the weekend. But I'm sure they'll take it somewhere else because it was hugely, hugely popular. They had a little QR code so you could take away with you a Spotify playlist of all of the stuff that was in the face and all of that and I've been listening to it on my journey into work ever since. Name a song? Oh all of them, I've got it on the phone, it is really

really really worth downloading and but it did make me think and I'm sorry because it's not all about us. We should do an Off-Vet Community playlist shouldn't we? We should do, actually. I thought you were going to say we should do another podcast called All About Us. Certainly, All About Me would be even better. We should do a playlist. That is a good idea. Let's throw that over to Young Eve. We have been talking about names just over the last couple of weeks.

Actually, it's a subject that quite often crops up and I can't understand why because it is the gift that keeps on giving. I think you'd be going some to beat this one. Shall I read this from Lady Tony? I just think this is absolutely brilliant. You see this. Oh, so it's this just jingle-jangle with your music What are you doing? Well, I've got the playlist up just before I'm just gonna give you five songs in a row Just take him from the middle of the playlist. Yeah, no, don't worry. They wouldn't mind it was banana Rama cruel summer Oh, yeah, so this is they've got several kind of different parts in the playlist. Yeah, no, don't worry. They wouldn't mind. It was Banana Rama Cruel Summer. Oh yeah, that'd be alright. So this is, they've got several kind of different parts in the playlist. This is the Face magazine culture shift. Hit me with your rhythm, sticked in jury. Into Galactic, the Beastie Boys. Do you remember? No, it's not hard to know. Here

comes the rain again. Live forever. She bangs the drums, the stone roses, the trees pulp. Rudy got married, Laurel Aitken. It is is brilliant I highly recommend it for people of our age carry on sister my name is Tony Paula that's her first name it's like I'm trapped on the top deck of the bus quite late at night with a loud playing music on their phone another message regarding name oddities says lady Tony my name is Tony Paula and my brother three years younger was christened Tony Paul a Certain lack of imagination on our parents part I've always thought my mom died early

So I've never as an adult been able to ask her why she and my dad chose the same names for us both My dad is still with us He claims it was all my mum's idea. The inevitable confusion occurred when we were children and therefore I became known as Pop, which I've never really liked. To add to the situation, 23 years ago my brother Tony introduced me to my now husband, also called not Paula but Tony. So the confusion continues. My husband and I are known to friends as Mr. and Mrs. T or the Tonys, Tone E or Tone L or my personal favourite Lady Tony and Man Tony. I really wish I'd been called

Helen or Jane. Updated says Lady Tony, I've just listened to the excellent interview with Ed Davey. My aforementioned husband Tony is a friend of Ed's, went to school in Nottingham with him and his two brothers. They are all fantastic, successful chaps despite their very difficult early years. Lady Tony, thank you so much for that and I'm sorry to hear that your mum died early but I would love to know, really would love to know, what her thinking was there. That's just quite bizarre. So on the one hand you could think it would make it a lot easier, but on the other hand as the email proves quite complicated and difficult. Extraordinarily complicated. In terms of middle names, because we were talking about this, because who's got Pepper as the middle name? One of our

correspondents that she asked her older two children what would they like, so they had a Cora from memory, Cora Pepper was the name of the little baby, only born about nine weeks ago I should say. Sarah says, dear Jane and Fee, when I asked my two and a half year old daughter what she wanted to call her sister she said handbag. It was so good. We obviously didn't go with her suggestion but we often use it jokingly with her sister now they're in their teens. I rather wish you would have done that. I

think it's absolutely fantastic. It would have been a real conversation starter in later life wouldn't it? And we all need one. We do. And also because just the amount of bloomin' forms you have to fill out these days on the apps and to get access to this, that and the other. You're displaying your middle names way more than you ever needed to. Or your parents thought you would, I think. Yeah, I think that's probably true. So it would be glorious to be able to just put hand back throughout. God knows how this whole form-filling system is going to morph,

what it's going to morph into over the coming decades, you dread to think. Well, I think we'll just end up with chips in our heads. Yeah, we'll just be able to kind of, you know, shove our thumb on something and it'll download us. And we don't mean potato chips, okay. We're a little bit ahead of the game. That's not what we mean. I personally don't want a potato chip embedded in my head. No. Sensible things you say. Heloise comes back in responding to our Race Across the World conversation and thank you for your really, really lovely email, Heloise.

But we were grateful to you for your perspective on Caroline and Tom, the mother and son couple, in the programme. And you apologise for the length of the email at the end. Never do that. We like it when you really tell us stuff about yourself. And I'll just read a tiny bit of it. Heloise says, I do think there's something to say about how so many young men do not know how to look after themselves, often living in disarray throughout university years, until

a girlfriend comes along and straightens everything out. I wonder whether any other listeners have experience of this. And you're right to pump that out there because I suspect that they might do. I think Caroline's parenting style with Tom is likely more down to their specific situations looking back at it and the race itself is very emotionally demanding. It was just the conversation in one of the first episodes about the traditional upbringing that I had latched onto. And you do say too that my own mum has vastly gone above and beyond in her support of me throughout my life, so I do understand that aspect. But I don't think she coddles me.

I know I can't really profess that about myself, but since early teenage years, I have participated fully in the running of the house. It is just the two of us. So when I moved out at 18, I already knew how to feed myself and keep my space tidy and generally get on with things. Well, well done you and well done your mum and no need to apologise at all. We love people who throw things into the mix that get us all talking so keep it coming.

Frozen Baguettes from Liz. I've listened and giggled to you both for years. I don't know why you're laughing. I really don't. I'm one of those who regularly goes to sleep with you. I'm from the Wirral. Now live on Vancouver Island on the west of Canada. Baguettes, I totally agree about not always eating it all before it goes stale so I freeze mine and then cut into cubes and use for croutons. That's another handy tip, isn't it? Yes, well, it is a handy tip. It really is. Do you ever make your own breadcrumbs?

Um, no. My former mother-in-law once travelled with a bag of breadcrumbs. Why? Because she felt that the breadcrumbs she could supply would be better than anything she could find at her destination. OK.

But it's a little bit like my mum, when she used to come for Christmas, would always bring onions, as though London, quite a large city, wouldn't be equipped with that well-known, popular, and I'm going to say adaptable, root vegetable. Would it be a white onion, a brown onion? Yeah, she just didn't trust. She just didn't trust my ability to buy onions. Breadcrumbs, do you know, I've never made, isn't that awful?

Have you not? Do you know, I find that... Don't judge me. ...they're one of the easiest ways to really pimp up an average dish. So if you... Oh, don't look at me there. Yeah, no, they, they really, they go, they go down a treat. Well, what do you add them to?

So if you get breadcrumbs, and sometimes when our bread goes off I do just whizz it in the thingamajiggywhatsit, you know, whizzer. Yeah? Yeah, that'll do everybody. And if you put quite a bit of salt and pepper, maybe a tiny bit of other seasoning in, it does make a very nice topping. So we quite often just put it on pasta, So we'll just have completely normal bog standard pasta. Plain.

Yep. Maybe a little bit of tuna, a little bit of sweet corn. And then if you put the breadcrumbs over it, the last minute looks absolutely posh. A satisfying crunch as well. Yeah, and it does, it adds a little bit of crunch and a little bit of texture. You mentioned those two well-known condiments,

salt and pepper there. And it's been a wrangled little thought of mine for a long time, whatever that is. What is a ramble little, wrangled little, and whatever, is that we hear a lot about the dangers of salt. Has anyone ever advised against overuse of pepper? Well I'm not sure that you would, it doesn't raise your blood pressure. I don't know, I mean is it just, I don't know. I think it's quite good for us isn't it?

I love it. Lots and lots of pepper. I absolutely love pepper. I'd always, of the two, I'd keep pepper quite good for us, isn't it? I love it. Lots of pepper. I absolutely love pepper. I'd always, of the two, I'd keep pepper above salt. Definitely, every time. But I wonder whether there's any health guidance around its use. I don't think there is. Perhaps there isn't, which is great, obviously.

Well, we can pop that into... So we've moved from the popular pig of the same name to the spice. I think Eve's doing a little bit of looking up. As we're on the subject of adding things, magnesium is king, says Jonathan Tooting. Spurred on today to drop a line regarding magnesium, 25 years ago I was suffering awful night leg cramps and many days I woke with my neck cricked or fixed in position. I couldn't even drive or work most days. But then a lovely naturopath. Have I said that right? Well I think that if

you're a naturopath you probably won't be too much of a pedant will you so I wouldn't worry. Okay recommended taking magnesium supplements. I didn't all of the muscle cramps spasms stopped immediately that week I only take it two to three times a week but it definitely works and I would not be without it if I forget to take it on holiday I think I think things are tightening up. Love the Finns by the way. Know a few lovely ones here in London. Shout out to Marit and Mari.

Ooh! If you know any other Finns, I don't know, I don't think I've ever met anyone from Finland. But you said you'd watched... Does it feature on the Simon Reeve? It does, yes. Is that the place with the huge nuclear bunker, or was that Norway? That's Finland. I think that's why Janet from Tooting has noted it.

Because the young Finns were just extremely supportive of their country. At least the ones that Simon Reeve talked about. Have you got any news about pepper? It's generally safe but could cause some discomfort. Oh! Well, that's obviously being silly with the pepper mill, you've only got yourself to blame. But yes, the actual spice itself is absolutely fine. Thank you very much.

Sarah, she says, I'm Sarah but without the H and it's pronounced Sarah. I wish you'd told me that at the start. To be fair, Sarah, you did. At secondary school I was too shy to correct people so I added the H just to fit in. It wasn't until after I'd had children that I reclaimed the original spelling. Cue a lot of confusion with banks and paperwork. Well, I'm not surprised. It must have gone absolutely mad with you for being so higgledy-piggledy with your first name choice. Here's a story you might enjoy about postcards. In the early 80s, my best friend and I bunked off school to visit the amusement

park in the next town. Months later, while browsing in Smiths, we spotted ourselves on a postcard. We were mid-spin on the twisters. Fame at last. Bunking off, my only regret is we didn't buy one. Why didn't you buy one? That's crazy. I'd have bought the whole batch if I'd seen myself and a mate. Well yes Jane. Yeah okay. But also obviously we don't in any way back not going to school. No but some of the people who turn out to have the most interesting adult lives have quite often bunked. It's just a fact. David's soul comes back into play because Debra has sent

us and we're going to pop this up. Because I don't remember David having eyes, strictly speaking we're not, would it be fair to say not at the same height as each other? I think Debra's mum has just captured a moment in David's life. In David's life? Yeah, when? Where he may have been looking at two things at once. Okay, which let's face it, we've all been there. But also I think it's really good.

It is really good. God, I mean, I think it's absolutely incredible. I would never have a clue where to start. So Deborah says it's fine for you to share. It's actually pretty good. And it makes me wonder what mum could have achieved if she'd been able to focus on art instead of fitting it in briefly. Yep, around managing a home and a family. It's just a bit weird to look at while you're having a wee. Well, I mean, maybe she created the Mona Lisa effect for exactly that reason, Deborah.

So that wherever you're sitting, whatever position you're in, however long it's taking, you feel that David Soul is very much with you. David Soul is boring into you one way or another. Oh dear. He did have a good head of hair, didn't he, in his sort of peak TV fame years? He certainly did. Have you got that email about actually maintaining very good relationships with your family after a divorce? Because I do think that might be worth chucking out into our lovely Offair group. I did, I did have it. I think it's amazing if after divorce or separation everybody does manage to behave decently and carry on

those same relationships. But I think it would also be fair to say that sometimes that doesn't happen and that the experiences can be a little bit damaging and also I think just really, really confusing for kids. I've got it here and I'll do it in a sec but I did want to also just mention this one because if we were more, well if I were more organised I'd have mentioned it when you were talking about race across the world. But this is just from a listener, we don't need to mention her name, who says, I frankly, I don't think you can be too kind to your kids because actually what you're teaching them is that they're worthy of kindness.

Well that's what I think is so lovely about Tom and his mum. Thank you to this listener for basically putting into words my philosophy, which is, honestly, when you look back at your childhood and your early adult life and you think, yeah, my parents cared for me. I mean, they weren't perfect any more than I am, but I knew I was cared for and I'm therefore happy to care for my children. And I don't want them to look back in, you know, when I'm long gone and say, well, she's a miserable old bloody tight-fisted old... No, leave that to someone else. But it definitely sets the...

It does set the temperature of the bath that you then run for other people in your life. Yeah, of course. So I'm completely with you on that. And also I think your kids have got lots and lots of people in their lives. They're going to have friends, they're going to have critics, they're going to have mentors, they're going to have partners and you know as a mum you might as well do something a little bit different from all of those people which is not to say that you can't criticize your kids because that's all

part of love but I'm with you. Don't people are doing. Which is not to say that you can't criticise your kids because that's all part of love, but I'm with you. Well, don't get me started. I also should just say that this anonymous email is going through a tough time and it's interesting, you know, that email from our earlier correspondent who is agonising about her marriage has set a lot of you thinking about your own circumstances. Of course. And our correspondent here says, at the age of 45 I've realised I'm married to someone who just isn't very kind to me. We've got two young children and demanding jobs so I'm

not sure that's a factor however I have realised he just doesn't treat me with kindness. It's not terrible but equally it's not great. I lost one of my parents within the last year which has made me evaluate all sorts of things but fundamentally I've really felt the removal of a source of kindness in my life. And it is true, those of us who are still fortunate enough to have our parents when they're gone, we will really feel that gap because the truth is no one feels about you like your parents do if you're lucky. If you have a good relationship with them. Back to the email that you suggested earlier, I am writing to say after hearing Fee say that with a breakup comes the change in other relationships for example with the in-laws and this is from a

listener who's a little bit older she is Vicky in Canada I think we can say her name she doesn't say we can't. I had a very sad breakup when at the young age of 24 my husband had an affair but refused to admit it to me as I tried to find a reason for his change in behaviour towards me. He always denied it but finally said that he left because I wasn't a good enough housekeeper. I suppose that's an illustration that this is something that happened a while ago. Well do you think someone might not be? Really? Do you think someone would still say that? I realised at that point, says Vicky, how different we both were. Our son was just four and our daughter only two,

but they were two bright sparks. And I knew that I had more fun playing with them and enjoying how they saw life than I did spending hours a day on keeping a house immaculate. I never told his mother anything negative about her only child, for I felt she'd see it soon enough, and she did. And we continued the loving relationship we'd always had. When I remarried, my former in-laws sent birthday cards to my then husband and we visited them regularly. I mean, I think that's an extraordinarily positive turn of events. We were all together the day my only remaining child read a

speech that had everyone in tears. You see we lost her brother when he was only 18 and yet even through all this loss she spoke of how her parents had shown her that respecting each other was the way through. She asked that her dad walk her halfway down the aisle when she married and meet her stepfather and then they would both walk her the rest of the way to meet her stepfather and then they would both walk her the rest of the way to meet her husband to be. That's lovely isn't it? It's amazing. Gosh, if you can make that work, how fantastic is that?

We've had ups and downs over the years, says Vicky, but now it's 75. I'm grateful for the wisdom that seemed to help us through and the closeness that my daughter still sees in her parents. Well, that's lovely. it doesn't happen for everybody, but I'm so glad that you've all worked your way to that and it won't have happened by accident, people will have made an effort there, won't they? Yeah, clearly they have. But we chuck it out to the group because I'm sure that there are some other experiences out there that might need a little bit of an airing and you can always be anonymous, we don't mind that at all. Say at the

start of the email though, that is really helpful because sometimes we're a bit bumbling aren't we Eve and then poor Eve has to do an edit or we have to put in a beat or something. We are bumbling. Just to say as well we've had some really touching emails from so many of you saying actually anniversaries are important, birthdays are really important so if you as a friend or as a relative know that it is the birthday of somebody who has died and who still has relatives who are going to be really missing them on that birthday, just send them a message. From what we can gather from the emails we've had on this subject, they hugely appreciate that gesture. This is something that

came up in the conversation with Lucy Easto last week. So yeah, do that if you get the chance to do it and thank you for all the emails. Adam Buxton's new book, I Love You By E is part diary, part catalogue, part love letter, part self critique. He calls it Rambles on DIY TV, rock stars, kids and mums. Now if you know Adam, it might be from way back when, the Adam and Jo show in the 90s, quite a lot of television since then. Also his podcast where he walks sometimes with his dog Rosie, but also chats to people like Tom Hanks and Kirsty Young. And if you're really across his life, you'll know that his wife Sarah is quite long-suffering, that he made the worst show-stopper ever on the Great British Bake Off,

and that he is that showbiz concoction of ambition and insecurity, and he really, really loves his family. In this book, the decline of his mum and her death at his house plays a very important part which we shall talk about. First of all though how do you say the title of your book because I think I've got the emphasis a bit wrong. What would you say? No, no you did it perfectly. It's a stupid title. The thing is that it's... You did choose it yourself presumably? I didn't know. That was Joe Cornish my comedy wife

He chose the title of my first memoir which was your grand I'm gonna have to wait for my dog to die before the third one comes out But this one is the sign off of my podcast at the end of my podcast I go take care of you bye and I shout as long as I possibly can which enrages some listeners I'm getting it wrong no you did it fine it was great I mean I just didn't even think about the fact that I would have to say the title out loud it was bad enough for the first one which was called ramble book and I would have to say yes I've just been recording the

audiobook for my book ramble, and ungainly sentences like that. And now I've got I Love You Bye with too many E's. Well, look, let's move off that. Never judge a book by its cover or its title. Let's talk about the cake. So you went on the Great British Bake Off, the stand-up to cancer variety. You described it as the worst showstopper ever. Well, come on. Would you like to describe to our listeners in visceral visual detail what you made? I first of all was asked to go on this show, right, and normally I would not be invited on a show of that kind, a sort of high-profile well-watched show, but I thought well I'll do this one

because I had a great idea. I was out walking in the Norfolk fields with my dog Rosie one day, and I swear to you, I had one of the only flashes of inspiration I've ever had in my life, and I had a clear vision in the Norfolk sky of a cherry pie with, sorry, I'm getting over emotional and hitting the microphone,

of a cherry pie with a alien busting out of the center of it, like the scene in the film Alien, when the alien comes out of John Hurt's chest. And I thought, that would be a good cherry pie. And if I can sculpt the alien right and get it to stand up, I am going to win Bake Off. And I made the pie at home I practiced and I nailed it at home in practice yes there's a picture of it. I'm gonna hand it to my

colleague Jane and she's going to say I love cherry pie yeah so plus I follow no what do you mean oh dear dear, no? It's amazing. So the problem was you tried to get the pastry to stand up by cooking a banana in pastry, which just had disaster written all over it. Well, no, I realised my first attempts at home when I was practising, I was just trying to sculpt the alien figure around like a spice jar and stick that in the pie and get it to stand up that way. That didn't work. The pastry all fell off. Then I suddenly thought, oh, if I use an unripe banana, that might work.

Very rigid. They can be very rigid. They can be so rigid. Well, yeah. The problem was, Jane, it wasn't rigid. On the show, they didn't give me a banana that was sufficiently ripe. I feel like I was stitched up and I think there should be an inquiry. Because I was going to win that show. Well, yeah. Why are you being sniffy about the pinecone? Explain to me your response to the picture. It's faintly repellent, I'm going to say.

It's from a horror film. Yeah, no, yes I know. Have you ever seen Alien? An alien comes out of his chest. It's it's repellent. Well, there was some highly comedic made-for-television flaccid pastry moments and let's just leave it at that. It was lovely to see you pop up on the television screens though, Adam Buxton. So you've said there that you were surprised to kind of get the call to be on it.

Is that a bit of... are you being faux humble there? No, I think I'm being realistic. I imagine someone dropped out. Okay. But you live quite large in an awful lot of people's television lives and memories. Are you saying that... have you made a deliberate choice not to be very kind of out there and high profile? No, I wouldn't describe it as deliberate. saying that have you made a deliberate choice not to be very kind of out there and high profile?

No, I wouldn't describe it as deliberate. If I got the taskmaster call, I'd be very happy to say yes. But no, I instead have just enjoyed the podcasting universe and made that my home. And that's a much more relaxing place to be overall. Well, it is. And also you can really take control of what you make. Yes. Your mastery has always been in that kind of Adam Buxton vision, hasn't it? That detail that you want to put into things. That wouldn't, you know, I don't think you could really do a show

that was completely made by somebody else, could you? It would be tough. I've tried a few times. I like acting. Occasionally I would do a small acting role in something, a couple of films and a few TV shows back in the day. And that was really fun because then I was happy to just relax and be part of someone else's world. But if it's a show that I'm nominally in charge of, then I would really like to control every aspect as far as possible, which isn't really sustainable. As Joe and I found out, we did four series of the Adam and Joe show, which was our kind of homemade, silly pop culture review spoof type thing that we did for Channel 4 in the

late 90s. And now it just seems amazing to me that we did that many series and that we were able to do so many of those shows and that some people actually watched them as well. I don't think a similar show would be able to be made now. Well you detailed quite a lot of that journey in the book and it did make me think about exactly that passage of time and where those two young men would find themselves if they were starting out now. So if you were at Cheltenham Art College doing your sculpture degree, you would be putting the content straight onto social media, wouldn't you? You wouldn't have needed somebody to take a chance on you to put you

late night Channel 4 to kind of wrap their arms around you. You could have just gone straight for it, couldn't you? Yeah, I suppose so. Even though, I mean, the fun that we had was doing everything in a very analogue way. You know, it was pre-internet and pre- everything being digital, it was square TV screens with lovely thick glass. It was a better world.

And we were part of that world. I don't really know. You know, I used to, I've made videos that I put on my YouTube channel when YouTube started being a thing. And that was fun. But I mean, it wasn't the same. There was something about being on television. You know, we loved that medium.

We loved the old analog four by three TV universe. And by the time we'd finished our show that was disappearing. And do you think what's come in its place is... Terrible. Do you think it's terrible? No. Isn't it a democratic scene of wonder for creatives? Oh yeah.

I think YouTube's amazing. I mean I think YouTube is less amazing nowadays. I think all their algorithms are quite obnoxious in lots of ways, and not just the ones that are designed to radicalize people, but also the ones that are designed to screen for any kind of copyright material. When YouTube first started, sort of 2005 or thereabouts, you could put any old thing on there. And that was fun for me because I was having fun like

cutting up and re-voicing bits of footage that I'd taped off TV and re-editing things and enjoying myself in that way. But you can't do that now at all. Everything's very strictly regimented. This is quite an extraordinary book. I described it earlier as standing in front of the big pick and mix and just going like that, because it's all kinds of genres, isn't it, within the book. The bit that did make me laugh out loud and there's a bit that also made me cry but the laugh out loud bit, it is you detailing your arguments with your wife. Oh yeah, good, I'm glad you like that. I feel like sometimes people

might see that as conclusive proof of my rank misogyny. Well no, because she wins quite a lot. She does win, yeah. Also she's got a very good retort. She's, yeah, she's OG hardcore. Yeah, I'll give you one of the arguments. Subject of argument, and this is all done in grid form, picking the banshees of Inner Sheeran as our Christmas Day family movie. That was a bad one. Main points from your wife it was depressing pointless something designed to win awards. Main points from you it was a powerful allegory about cis men yearning for immortality because they can't give birth and mental illness and troubles in Ireland and donkey nutrition. Main points from your wife. It was a big depressing still

concert. We should have watched Top Gun Maverick again. Winner, wife. Yeah she massively won that one and also the rest of my family were there as well. My brother and sister were there on Christmas Day. I picked that one because I was genuinely excited. I thought great they've got the team back together again from Imbruge. It's gonna be great. I loved in Bruges I'm gonna win this night of entertainment and everyone when it finished everyone just trailed up to bed wordlessly Was left on my own. I don't really I suppose the donkey nutrition. It does feel like the donkey very much I think it's a good film. I mean look, it's it's

It wasn't the right one for Christmas Day I mean, look, it wasn't the right one for Christmas Day. Let's leave it at that. Obviously, the bit that made me cry is the bit at the end, Adam, which is about your mum. Just tell us a bit about your mum. I mean, she just sounds wonderful with her obj and her dazzle. Yeah, she was.

I describe her as being glamorous. That was the word that everyone used when they were sending me emails and consolation messages after she died in 2020. And she is a Latin American lady. She was from Chile. And she met my dad because she was a flight attendant on BOAC in the early 60s. She was 15 years younger than my dad. And he was a travel journalist. And so that's how they met. And she died in 2020 very unexpectedly, because she'd been sort of going downhill for a few years. And then I mean, I do blame the lockdown a little bit, and Boris Johnson, and Dominic Cummings. They're mainly responsible for my mother's death. I'm putting it out there because she was one of those

people who was just like, I'm fine. Everything's fine. Don't worry about me. She didn't want her children to worry about her. She didn't think that as a mother, she should be burdening us with her problems. So even though she wasn't doing well in the lockdown, she insisted that she was fine. And every time I called she said, don't worry about me. And I was like, well, you know, I think I

should come and get you. And she's like, no, you can't because it's not an emergency and you're not allowed to travel unless it's an emergency. And then Dominic Cummings went to Barnard Castle and the whole world blew up and that seemed to underscore my mum's position fairly massively. But I should have picked her up and it's one of the regrets that I talk about in the book that I didn't and I feel like if I had then things might have been different. But when I did finally pick her up after she was found by a stranger in Waitrose, kind of confused and couldn't remember where she'd parked her car and they phoned merose, kind of confused and couldn't remember

where she'd parked her car, and they phoned me up. I did go and get her, and then by the time I got her back to Norwich, to the hospital, you know, she was kind of in very bad shape, and soon after she was discharged, she died. So it just, the whole thing has made me feel like such a lousy incompetent Man-slash-son there'll be so many people listening Adam though who really will sympathize with your story because being

Isolated from the people that you love during the lockdowns and not being able to witness their distress and help them has just been awful For so so many people I don't think there are many people who can write a book like what you've written, which is laugh out loud, funny in some places and deeply moving and thoughtful in others, so I congratulate you for doing it. That's nice of you to say, thank you. Well, it's very lovely to see you. Good luck. I wouldn't accept any more baking challenges if you don't want the ire of Jane Garvey to follow you around. We're such an underrated pie cherry and he's ruined it for me. Has he? Yeah, he has, I'm afraid.

Adam Buxton's book is called I Love You, Byee, rambles on DIY TV rock stars, kids and mums. Was that your stomach? It was Eve. Oh, was it Eve's? I thought maybe it was mine. Oh dear. Right, we will bring you tales from the Chelsea Flower Show tomorrow, because that's where heading... what? I don't know, you're so worried about getting back. I know that I've spoken to the authorities here and a sherpa is going to be provided, so you will be all right. You'll be guided back to the east of London. After the event! I mean, I hope to see you tomorrow, but I'm worried.

I'm really worried. So, you know, if I'm not here, you'll feel bad. I'm sure I'm not. Maybe she will. Goodbye! Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or

on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. Yeah.