Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The Pavlov's dog of Times Radio (with Louise Minchin)

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Louise Minchin joins Fi for today's episode of Off Air, while Jane is off enjoying her holiday (in her own words, 'splurging on Elton!').They cover reading habits, extreme physical challenges, and the perils of TV vs. radio. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] our instagram! @JaneandFiAssistant Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, gosh. Right. And the fantastic thing is that we just go from now. So we're on air now. Are we on air now? We're on air, off air now. We're off air, on air. Oh, my gosh, Fee.

Well, thank you so much. I'm going to say official thank you, Fee, for holding my hand. I mean, metaphorically, over the last two hours. But your hand didn't need holding because you're a talented broadcasting professional. I never once thought, oh my goodness, even when I miss my cue, because I realise that I only speak when people say,

cue Louise. That's just quite funny. So explain that. So on the telly, right, so you only speak when the director says your name. So literally, I don't know, there'll be a countdown towards the headlines and then they go, cue Louise.

And you mustn't speak before you're cued. And there's always like a joke because I always take my cue a bit early. So I'll probably say, I'll probably start speaking on the Z of Louise anyway. But yeah, so that's why I didn't speak. I was thinking, I can't speak unless somebody tells me to speak. It's like pressing a button.

That is quite... It's so silly, isn't it? You are the Pavlov's dog of Times Radio now, aren't you? Am I? And then I also used to get in real trouble because that's when...

So actually, actually what I would do is I'd see... So we had the monitors below us so we could see when we were on the telly and I'd see myself do is I'd see so we had the monitors below us so we could see where when we were on the telly and I'd see myself and so I'd like actually cue myself but that's a bit naughty so so some of the directors would go Louise could you actually wait for my cue oh dear a rebellious one Kate yeah naughty now anyway there. Thank you. How do you compare radio to television?

Because I think something interesting has happened in radio over the last four or five years, which is we are always being filmed because obviously the socials require a visual image as well as a little bit of talking. So TV's definitely hived more towards radio. I don't suppose... No, and both ways round, I think, in some ways.

Why would TV have adopted more of the radio shtick? Well, there's fewer people in the studio than there used to be, for example. A lot of remote cameras. Do you see what I mean? So you're sort of taking the people out of it in some ways. But what would I say? I would say, yes, it's really, it is, because the beauty of radio used to be that you could just turn up and just,

I mean, for example, I might have turned up here having just got out of a swimming pool and not dried my hair, for example. But now that's all changing, isn't it? It's just, and there's an intimacy in the non being filmed. I find that really off-putting, that big monitor we had today. Yeah. Because it's five seconds behind as well. It's five seconds behind.

And I think a lot of people said the same thing. And I saw my armpits. I was like, it's quite surprised by that. You see yourself from all kinds of angles, Louise. And like during the pandemic when everybody, you know, discovered what they actually looked like on Zoom all the time. And I think cosmetic dentistry went through the roof and, you know, bookings for hair dye appointments went through the roof as people just saw themselves and were a little bit disappointed. The other thing that happened to me, and I've mentioned anxiety dreams a lot today, haven't I?

happened to me and I've mentioned anxiety dreams a lot today haven't I but my anxiety dream with telly used to be and this would happen recurring dream always the same dream was that I would be trying to get on air and either I'd forgotten my jacket so I was going to have presented my bra or something ridiculous or most worrying was that makeup weren't there so the makeup artist was not there when I got to this you know in my dream and it really really terrorized me that dream and then of course one day literally from one day to the next on breakfast in front of six million people we had no more makeup artists and I had to do it and I looked like an absolute wreck for the first few weeks until I learned how to do tele makeup that's so funny that's

your anxiety dream it's gone now the radio presenters one is absolutely about the clock so okay it's about looking up at the clock and and you you pointed out today whenever I talk about timings I go she has a little finger that goes around the radio clock and it's about looking up at the clock and there's seven minutes to go or eight minutes to go and there's there's no one to go to okay yeah and you've just got to fill for time fill for time fill for time fill for time yeah which i can completely understand but yeah mine was just much more vain than that i didn't have my makeup on i wasn't going on there but it's not vain it's just it's just the different nature it would job. It would just have been horrific for everybody. But anyway, don't worry about that because this is the podcast and as yet we're not filmed,

so we are the absolute glory of just chat-a-rama without having to worry about what my armpits look like. Why are you worried about your armpits, by the way? Well, I've never... It's not something I look at. And then I'm wearing a sleeveless top and suddenly my armpits were looming ahead of me. I might change my mind about sleeveless tops on the radio now. If you come in tomorrow in a polo neck,

I'll know that Times Radio has already done its terrible damage. So we're not going to have a main guest on this podcast today because it's an opportunity to ask Louise lots of questions. And then for the rest of the week, we've got Rob Rinder coming in. Yeah. I think you know him in a showbiz kind of way. I do know him because we've done an extreme challenge together.

For Sport Relief, we went to the Namib Desert. I love the way you look at me. Her eyes, I wish you could see them. It's a horror. The horror in her face. And we did a few things. Well, we basically cycled across it on these fat, they're called fat bikes. You're so not Jane Garvey. Okay, keep going. And then one day, one day, as you do in this big challenge, I mean, it was hot. Obviously,

it was a desert. it was 42 degrees or something and rob and i and i love him for this we ran a marathon we didn't run all the way but we did a marathon together over 19 of the world's biggest sand dunes and they were like mountains so we are bonded look at your face so you look like you're in pain i am in pain just thinking about it running on sand i mean yeah and that must be horrible i love you because you ask such good questions you have to wear these gators so you had these um so shoot obviously trainers and then you had these kind of like things which you attached onto your shoes you like velcroed them so the sand hopefully didn't go into your shoes because it was burning i mean if you

if you if you sat on the sand it would burn you so yeah that was hard and how what was your time of i mean that was i mean it took us a very long time and i mean it was one of the most incredible things i've ever done because all we were just on our own the two of us most of the time because everybody else couldn't keep up and actually only one person other person made it um and we were just i had to do i had to do the navigation he was like you're in charge of navigation i mean my my learning in navigation is pretty much zero but i had a watch and i would go okay that's the sand dune we're going to take this route and we just go up these incredible sand dunes completely on our own. It was utterly brilliant. Really properly on your own, not even a film crew with you.

The film crew, because the sand dunes are so huge and they move, so there's no roads, and they were having to take these vehicles different routes. So maybe for like an hour at a time we would be completely on our own because they couldn't reach where we were going to get to. It was brilliant. Did you ever feel a bit unwell no well actually i had a horrific um sun rash do you ever get sun rash i've had very bad yeah very very bad burns no i wasn't burned but i had a horrific sun rash so

that was the only thing that really made me feel ill okay yeah but we we had so we sort of bonded as you as you would when you do something like that. Well, God, I'm just going to leave you and Rob to it, to share happy memories of your big blisters. I'm a bit nervous because I know he's trying to persuade me to do something next year with him, so. And is there not a moment during one of those extreme challenges

for charity where you just think, you know, I'll just give them my savings, just make this stop? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. But then I thought, I'll just carry on because I want to try and keep hold of those savings. No, I don't.

No, there are. I mean, you know, they were tough. I mean, Grimmy, Nicholas Grimshaw, who was with us, was really ill. He was really, he got heat stroke. Yeah, I think heat stroke. But yeah, we just kept going and we played some great music. We bonded by, we had, he had the music and we had, you know, ear pods or whatever they call them.

And so he'd have one in his ear and I would have one in the other ear. And then we knew we'd get too far apart if it stopped working. So we were sort of like, had this umbilical cord of music between us that just kept us going. Okay. Wow.

It was sort of surreal. I didn't realise it was the same trip as uh yeah we're good have you talked to him about that trip yeah yeah yeah because i was with him yep he came on the podcast and actually he was properly scared by it wasn't it because it was a very very very serious form of heat exhaustion yes the type that actually your organs can fail yeah so i was with him and we were cycling across on these fat bikes. It was just Grimmy and myself, actually. And it was extremely hot. And we'd been trying to drink water, et cetera, et cetera.

And he was fine. And then suddenly he was not fine. He started making absolutely no sense at all. And I was like, you need to get to Grimmy and get to him now. And he was really seriously ill. Wow. Anyway, we survived. Well, I think you're remarkable.

I mean, I watch people like you doing stuff like that. And I'll just be honest, Louise, it makes me feel sick. Just watching you makes me feel sick. And I will happily give you the money, but I just don't want to see celebrities in pain. I can't watch it anymore. No. I find it quite strange, actually. I'm not averse to fitness myself,

and I do lots of swimming and stuff like that, but that really incredible endurance stuff that you do, because I know that I can't do it myself, I find it almost painful to watch other people because I think I have that underlying anxiety that I would be the Nick Grimshaw in that set of circumstances. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to get seriously ill, but I bet you're much more capable than you think you are. and anxiety that I would be the Nick Grimshaw in that set of circumstances. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to get seriously ill.

So I bet you're much more capable than you think you are. No, I'm really not. And I don't... I'm going to have to try and prove this. No, I'm very, very happy to give away my savings. Very, very happy indeed. This is why they do it, isn't it? Because people just go, OK, we'll give you the money. You go do it.

Yeah, no, and that's me. Hands up to that. Right, we've give you the money. You go do it. Yeah. No, and that's me. Hands up to that. Right. We've got loads and loads of lovely emails. I'll tell you what we're going to do, actually. Over the course of the week, we are going to talk to Louise about loads of things. Louise has got her own book out at the moment

called Fearless Adventures with Extraordinary Women. And there's a really fantastic story behind you wanting to write such a book so we're going to talk about that as the week progresses we've also hopefully got some delicious behind the scenes stuff from I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here which I'll have to think carefully what I'm allowed to say given that I signed a contract you signed the the NDA yes Yes, exactly. Okay, well, I will poke around. Okay, you see what you can do. I will use my very best podcast pliers on you.

Okay. And we'll see what we can get. So we've got that to talk about too. We'll do best and worst times from the BBC breakfast sofa as well. Oh, gosh, at least I'm getting time to prepare. Yep. Okay. And any questions from our listeners too is the same address.

It's janeandfeeattimes.radio. All of the usual stuff carries on. And actually, can I just do a very quick parish notice first? Because we've just started a book club. I know, I heard that. People have already read the book. Well, quite a few people have because it is Valerie Perrin's book, Water for Flowers.

There are lots of different translations of it, actually, because obviously she writes in French. So I think the one that I've got is Fresh Water for Flowers, but I think in other translations it might not be that. So that's the book that we're reading. It was recommended to us by a listener, and that is going to be the USP of our podcast book club that our listeners tell us what they'd like us to read.

I think it's a brilliant idea. Us doing that. You've just chaired the Women's Prize for Fiction. Yes, I have. And Barbara Kingsolver won with Demon Copperhead. Actually, I mean, I loved all the books on our shortlist. And I think there's so many different, you know, if you read, you should really, if you can have time, read the whole shortlist because they're fantastic. Everything from Pod, which is told from the point of view of a spinner dolphin, to Fire Rush, which is wonderful. It's about a young woman growing up in London in 1970s, young black woman.

They're brilliant, brilliant books. Did it slightly take away your natural desire and enjoyment of reading fiction? Because as the chair of judges, you have to read a lot. It was a lot of reading fiction because as the chair of judges you have to read a lot. It was a lot of reading. In fact it was a brilliant journey for me back to reading because I found working on Breakfast and I don't know what your what your reading's like but I had this sort of ever-growing pile of books I wanted to finish because I'd be very lucky interviewing an amazing author but could never quite finish the book. So on this i have read read a lot and finished a lot of books and i'm just like oh how exciting to go back and be a reader again and i am i'm reading so much at the moment it's really fun that's really good i mean that's exactly what it should

do yeah and it's probably speeded up my reading too i bet yeah uh okie dokie so uh valerie perrault's book is called water for flowers you can read it in the original in French. I think it was in 2020 on the Italian bestsellers list as well. I know it's huge across Italy, too. So I hope you enjoy it. I'm about 50 pages into it. I am really loving it. Now I've got into the stride of a very different type of prose, which is quite kind of light and almost feels a bit inconsequential. So it's not, as yet, a really kind of plot-driven book. It feels very much like just thoughts from the narrator.

But I think, from what other people have said, that a very good emotional plot emerges. OK, I'll put it on my list as well. So I'm enjoying it hugely. This one comes from Nick, who says, thank you for the book club and Water for Flowers is a great first choice. She's having a similar experience at the outset. I was a little

dubious. The book started with what felt like a series of vignettes to introduce the characters and narrative. It was good but I wasn't relishing almost 500 pages. However, the deeper we dug the more I fell for this incredible book and as the plot gets going

the strands start to smartly weave together and the overall picture feels like a jigsaw being revealed and Nick goes on to say I'd love it if we could veer towards crime fiction at some point and do you know what Nick that's exactly what we're going to do next.

This is it. Yes. Excellent. But I won't tell you who we're doing because it'll start to get really confusing. So join in with that if you can. Right, you've been through our email inbox. I've been through your emails.

Where am I going to start? I'm going to start with, this is about you two. Jane and Fi, today on the podcast, Fi described your book tour appearance at Ali Pali as your worst night. Oh, I heard that right. This person, Elizabeth,

says that was quite a shock to hear. Not only was I in the audience that night, but I also live in Ali Pali. So to think you had your worst night in my hood was very disappointing. I have seen you live on three occasions and enjoyed each time. Yours, quite slighted. Well, I don't mean slight anybody. So in saying that, I meant that Jane and I just weren't very good. Because it was one of the first shows that we did. And we didn't really know what the audience wanted from us. Because although we'd done lots of radio programmes. You hadn't had the live audience.

No, and we'd written a book together. But we didn't really know why people would come and see us. So it's not that the audience wasn't great or the venue wasn't great, because the venue's extraordinary, actually. It was more that Jane and I just really were a bit bewildered as to what we needed to do. So I think we both felt that we didn't really do the night justice.

OK. So the slight's kind of on us. It's really not on you as an audience. I think she'll feel better about them. And we still got to the end of our tour, and that's a phrase that neither of us thought we'd ever say. Did you know what you were doing then and what the audience wanted?

Not a clue. It's clearly working for you. We were having a great time. Exactly. I think that's what they want. Somebody else says, I'm lying on a beach in Corfu listening to you both. I'm laughing out loud. That's what they want. That's all they want. Right.

This one comes from Pippa, who says, I came across a meme this morning that adds an extra layer to the new Barbie film. We've got really stuck on Barbies and Cindys. The film poster slogan, She's Everything, He's Just Ken, has had an unfortunate translation on the French poster as Ken is apparently a French slang term for fornication. So for the French poster, the slogan reads, she's everything, he just knows how to fornicate.

Well, I mean, I think probably in some games people have played, that's pretty much it. Ken does. Best. I like this. I love stories of thank yous, like posts. You know, something happens and you never get to thank the person. This is from Kathleen.

I want to say a big belated thank you to a very lovely lady who helped me out in the morning of Wednesday 21st of June. I was out running, fell flat on my face in the middle of the road. Brackets. Proof that exercise isn't good for us. She didn't write that. I mean, you didn't write that. She did. Yeah. Okay. A very kind woman called Josie

pulled over to see how I was and gave me a lift home as I was a bit shaken and bashed up. Nothing broken, but I've got one hell of a shiner and attractively grazed cheek, chin, shoulder, hands and knees. I feel this pain, Kathleen. I was in Hitchin in Hertfordshire and she was on her way to the station. If she's listening or if anyone who knows her is, please. I was in Hitchin in Hertfordshire and she was on her way to the station. If she's listening or if anyone who knows her is, please can I say a huge thank you. She helped me out and I'm very grateful. I've had lots of people help me out,

having fallen over off my bike, fallen over running, all sorts of things. So thank you to all those people who have. There was one in London way back and I fell off my bike really badly and I thought it was fine and I got up these people stopped me like you must get in a cab and I'm like I'm fine no they put me in a cab and sent me home with my bike what because you were so ripped apart yeah knees and stuff yeah okay and then recently somebody I'm very worried about you my knees don't look good that's for

sure and recently yet training for the London Marathon I did it again I fell over and what happens in the marathon of you if you fall over I didn't fall over there thankfully oh okay because I'd be super embarrassed but if somebody did and they caused a bit of a pile up yeah would everybody genuinely be nice about it or would something be a Or would some people be a bit ticky? It depends where you are at the front of the race or the back. I'd help them because then I'd think that gives me a breather.

Yeah, that's true. What's your best ever marathon time? Oh, not good. Like what not good? Oh no, really not good. I run them very slowly. I think about five and a half hours. Oh, okay. Yeah. And that's for, is it 26 miles? 26.2. Okay.

Right, I feel much better now. Yeah, there you go. I don't normally save my time because, A, I don't want to put people off, but also, I mean, it is rubbish. I mean, it's not rubbish. I ran the marathon. Yes, and it's not rubbish at all. No, but I don't, yeah, anyway.

There we go. You can do it. Yeah, can we just say hello to, No, I'm never going to do that. Don't be ridiculous. No. Can we just say a very big hello to Hitchin in Hertfordshire, which is just one of those really weird ley lines of our podcast. It comes up all the time.

My aunt lives there. Oh, spooky. So it's that and Crosby in Liverpool. I haven't got a connection to Crosby. All roads lead back to Liverpool, usually on the podcast, but they go via Hitchin sometimes. So we just say very good evening to Hitchin. Wow, hello Hitchin.

Yep. Now this tickled my fancy. It comes from Diana, who says, hello, it's me again. Responding to Fee's comment about the Hampshire Chronicle and its ads on the front page, I went to work for the Chronicle in 1991. Ads had just come off the front page. So the Hampshire Chronicle had all of the agricultural prices

as its front page. And then obviously you had to open the paper to get to other news. And it was like that for, you know, longer than I think most people would imagine a newspaper would be. Wow. So we were talking about that the other week. And Diana says, and so just come off the front page then,

the printing which used to happen with hot metal on the ground floor had just ceased. We still had rows of typesetters on the first floor. All men, obviously, doing a highly paid job, needing no physical strength. They sat almost inside the machine on integral benches. The editor and owner of the independent Hampshire Chronicle was Monica Woodhouse.

She inherited both roles from her father. Known as Mother, she was formidable and much admired. And Diana now works in Times Towers. So that's spooky. Did you work on the Hampshire Chronicle? No, I didn't, but I just used to love reading it. I think it was a great local newspaper. And we were talking about the demise of the local newspaper

and it's easy to really disappear down a kind of nonsense of cliches about local newspapers being incredibly important when sometimes, you know, they are not filled with the most important news of the day, but they're still very much loved and a really essential part of a local community. And the Hampshire Chronicle was a great, great paper. I mean, it didn't have the nonsense of the cliche in it.

It covered everything brilliantly. I remember being super impressed by it and also because it was a big newspaper really it wasn't it wasn't like the like a tabloid like a tabloid it wasn't a gazette it was a chronicle louise and i loved it i mean i like i loved local radio so that was that was and then and i did all the cliches there. Oh what was your best step? My best one I think was like was two ducks being stolen off a small pond I think I mean terrible story I think they came back and everything because obviously we probably wouldn't have covered if it hadn't been a good news story but yeah all those brilliant stories I loved local

radio. Okay mine was the the fact that Northamptonshire churchyards had more types of lichen in them than any other churchyard in the east of England. I love that, so specific. I was on it. Dearest Jane, but I'm going to read this out anyway because I need to ask you about this because otherwise we might not be able to be friends. Oh no, what is it? because I need to ask you about this because otherwise we might not be able to be friends. Oh, no. With regards to the archers, I think Stella is playing the long game. I'm sure she's planning to take over the farm completely. It's going to be bad, this.

She's screaming behind the scenes to kick out Brian and Adam and solely take over the farm. That's what I think anyway. Now, you see, that to me is a word salad. I don't understand any of it. Do you listen to the archers? No. Right. We're still friends, the archers? No. Right.

We're still friends, aren't we? Booker forever. Book this woman forever. I just... I don't want to start a deluge of people. We'll just move on. Should we just pretend we didn't even mention it?

Yes, could we? Okay. Could we just talk a tiny bit about your pets as well? Yes, move on. Should we just pretend we didn't even mention it? Yes, could we? Okay. Could we just talk a tiny bit about your pets as well? Yes, go on. I mean, this could be a long conversation. So you've got four. Yes. I've got five. I'm not being one-up my ship, by the way, at all.

It sounded a bit like it wasn't meant like that. I didn't. She's put me in my place. It's only my name. I'm so sorry. It's okay. I I'm in pause a lot backtrack on it now oh god it's too late

five and a half a house or a marathon right so you've got five pets five pets should we start with small Bumble who is a rabbit lovely she's ancient she's about nine

I don't know how long rabbits can if anybody could tell me how long rabbits might live that would be great big rabbit floppy ears she's about

I mean how big is that I don't know the size of a mango is that a mango or maybe a melon a melon a melon definitely

and she's fluffy and she's white with grey bits and she lives she lives a feral life. She used to live in like a sort of little yard, right? She doesn't even live in a cage. She lived in a yard

and then we decided that she lost her friend, that we'd let her out because, you know, there's a whole wide world out there to explore and she does. She just goes outside and at night we call her and she comes back again.

But you must, do you live in quite a rural place? Yes, it's a rural environment. Isn't that a bit hazardous? You must have foxes and badgers and all kinds. I don't know. I don't want to jinx it. She's survived years doing this. It's unbelievable.

I think the worst thing is that people come and knock on the door and go, there's a rabbit outside on the grass. We're like, yeah, we know that. We just let her out because we didn't want to make her feel happy. And she never goes very far. No, no. So there's a rabbit. And then we've got two dogs, Labradors called Waffle and Ruby,

who are gorgeous. And then we've got the two mini Shetland rescue ponies who are probably the show stealer. Would that be fair? That would be fair because you have shown me pictures of your two little shetland ponies and they are just so i mean can anyone not have a reaction of wonder love gooeyness well some people some people go mini shetlands they're so bad my my ponies are not bad at all they're absolutely absolutely adorable. So they're rescue ponies. So from what we know about them, they'd had a hard life.

So Muffin, who's this beautiful black bellwale pony, he's absolutely gorgeous. So when he first arrived, if you put him on any sort of concrete, he'd walk around in circles. So I think he'd been kept in an enclosed space with no grass. And he'd attack dogs, which was obviously a bit worrying, given that we had at that point one dog. And then Holly had obviously been hit as well.

So you couldn't hardly touch her. You couldn't put a halter on her or anything. And she was really aggressive around food. Anyway, they have completely changed. Holly is like the sweetest thing. She comes up, as soon as I go into the field, she comes up and sort of snuffles um muffin has crimps we got a nice it's so mad isn't it so we got ruby the labrador puppy no louise it's really normal muffin now loves dogs so much so that ruby will

lull in her back andin literally tickles her tummy. Honestly, they're just absolute superstars. And there's something about horses, mini horses, that they're just, if you're ever in any kind of stressful mood or whatever it is, you just go and spend some time with them and life just feels like a happier place. I bet. I love them.

Do you want me to send you, do you want me to lend them to you? Well, I'm not sure, I'm not sure they'd work with my pet combo. Yeah, because you've got the dogs. And a lot of cats, well, three cats. Three cats. And the two, Brian and Barbara, are still a little bit skittish. Oh, yeah, they might, yeah, that might not go well. So I don't think that would work.

But I, later on in life, I'm very much hoping to have a couple of alpacas. No, go mini Shetlands. You immediately said no to, but there's something so bonkers about, because the alpaca, to me anyway, it looks like the English camel. They've got those lovely, lovely big eyes and slightly kind of smiley faces. And I'd love some, but I definitely, definitely, I've got a very small town garden so that's not going to happen now. It sounds ridiculous but I do

you know, they are really different these two ponies. They've really changed over the years and then they're sort of like celebrities in the village because people come especially to feed, I mean they're so spoiled. They get fed carrots all the time. I'm thinking maybe I should put a sign up saying don't feed them. What do you think everybody? i should put a sign up saying don't feed them what do you think everybody should i put that sign up are carrots bad for my ponies

well we've got a lot of vets who listen to have you so they can definitely be horrified i bet they'll be horrified uh can i make one of our fantastic gear changes as we have you here all week and can we end the podcast with just um a brief explanation of what triggered you to write your book about fearless women because it's actually it's a it's a serious thing that got you started isn't it and it is i think relevant to the news that we were following last week about the submersible carrying the explorers who were all men and obviously were very rich men who had decided that the darkest depths of the ocean somehow called to their exploring side and we know the outcome of the story which is just tragic for the families but why did you want to write only about women okay so i'll try and do it briefly because and triggered is the right word.

So at the BBC and I've written about in the book, I had gone through two really important battles. One was equal pay, along with very many other women at the BBC. And your lovely, esteemed colleague, Jane Garvey, was very much part of the whole getting that change that I should be paid the same. I'm laughing. It's not funny, is it it the same as the person who sat next to me and then the other battle I'd had was about when we went on air who should do the first interview the first say hello intro the program be in charge and I'd noticed that 90 well 90 something percent of the time that was not me even though I was the most experienced person doing that so I got that change that wasn't easy to do but that was changed and then because I'm really interested and you've heard in this podcast about stories of adventure and endurance

and being intrepid and being courageous and I suddenly noticed that every single time we talked about those stories and celebrated them and they made the headlines it was always a man and I just thought is it that women are not climbing the highest mountains or running the furthest distances or challenging themselves or is it that we don't hear from them and celebrate their stories and the book is the answer to that question of course there are amazing women out there doing incredible things. And I think we need to hear their stories. I think we need to hear their stories for lots of different reasons. Not least the one thing I've learned from the women in this book, and there are 18 of them. And every time I mention it, everybody's like, have you got this person,

that person, the other person? The point is, there are so many people who should be in it. One of the main things I learned from them is they do these incredible things, but they are not gung-ho. They take their safety and other people's safety very, very seriously, and they plan. And they do this because they love it, not because they want headlines and not because they're reckless.

Anyway, that's a long answer to a rather shorter question, but I wanted to do this because I think we, as women, need heroes who look like us that we can relate to Sophie you will be inspired having read this book to do something amazing with me okay yes it may not be free diving under ice oh good god no but there's something that we can do so I'm going to really enjoy reading this book and also I think it answers a question which has been niggling away at me a little bit actually over probably the last couple of years

which is just that assumption that can be made about the difference between men and women so in the exploring field it is I think too easy to say

that women don't want to jeopardise their lives to push themselves to a physical limit or a geographical limit or a historical limit. They do. And they do, don't they? They do, but we don't hear about it. But that's such an important thing to hear, isn't it? Because otherwise you go down that gender rabbit hole

of attributing something to men that they don't deserve to hear, isn't it? Because otherwise you go down that gender rabbit hole of attributing something to men that they don't deserve to have, which is as damaging when you say that women don't have something that men have. So I'm delighted to read this book. They really do. And they're all extraordinary in different ways. But for example, there's a lady in there called Mimi Anderson, who is one of the world's most successful endurance runners. OK, and she's British. We should know, you know, we should all know her name and we don't. Another one called Kath Pendleton, who there's a brilliant documentary, actually. She's called The Mirth of Mermaid about her.

And she has she swam the first mile in the Antarctic Circle without a wetsuit. Utterly brilliant. So women are doing it and we need to find those stories and amplify their voices i think yeah i agree okay so so much to hear from you about sorry i mean gosh everybody you must be exhausted i tell you what reading my book is quite tiring okay if you're going to read it tonight well just prepare it's i don't think there's a lot of stuff in there i don't think that's the quote they should use on the cover. No. What did Judy Murray say?

She said, prepare to be blown away. Yeah. But equally, I think we should all dive into it and find out a little bit more. So we will talk more over the week. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio is our email address. And Louise is here until Thursday. All of the usual things that you'd like to talk about, we're really, really happy to carry on talking about that.

And if you are interested in pumpkin seeds... I was going to mention that. I'm interested in that. Yep, which was a listener's suggestion. I think originally we were talking about UTIs, weren't we? Urinary tract infections, and asking whether or not cranberries, this kind of mythical property of cranberries, actually helped. This then turned into a scientific survey of one

with a listener who reported that her stress incontinence had really gone away through eating a handful of cranberries and pumpkin seeds every day. So we've got a doctor on the programme tomorrow. Good. We will report back on the actual medical findings. But we really love hearing first-person experiences on this podcast. Way more than fact, actually.

So do keep coming. We'll go and find those somewhere else, don't we? And then bring them back. Yeah, we will. Right, have a lovely evening, everybody. See you tomorrow.